Re: Proposal: Plasma Active Three end of August
On 18.09.2012 14:04, Aaron J. Seigo wrote: On Friday, September 14, 2012 22:05:20 Thomas Pfeiffer wrote: The blockers definitely have to be fixed before we can release. I would definitely not recommend releasing with the major problems still there, since it would make us look bad, but they at least leave PA in a usable state. 2 bits of input here: a) we don't need the editorial to convince why we should no release with "release blockers". :) Let's all just agree that "release blocker" means what it says and then decide on an issue-by-issue basis if that issue is a blocker. Sure. Maybe I should call them "My release blocker candidates" or something like that instead, because these were bugs which I personally would not release with, but of course that doesn't necessarily mean that the others agree ;) b) these should be in a fresh thread for blockers; i'd like to see such a thread on the list at this point in every release cycle so we can collect issues for killing in an easy to find spot. i'll send an email shortly. +1000! ___ Active mailing list Active@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/active
Re: Proposal: Plasma Active Three end of August
On Friday, September 14, 2012 22:05:20 Thomas Pfeiffer wrote: > The blockers definitely have to be fixed before we can release. I would > definitely not recommend releasing with the major problems still there, > since it would make us look bad, but they at least leave PA in a usable > state. 2 bits of input here: a) we don't need the editorial to convince why we should no release with "release blockers". :) Let's all just agree that "release blocker" means what it says and then decide on an issue-by-issue basis if that issue is a blocker. b) these should be in a fresh thread for blockers; i'd like to see such a thread on the list at this point in every release cycle so we can collect issues for killing in an easy to find spot. i'll send an email shortly. -- Aaron J. Seigo signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Active mailing list Active@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/active
Re: Proposal: Plasma Active Three end of August
On 11.09.2012 14:43, Marco Martin wrote: On Sunday 09 September 2012, Thomas Pfeiffer wrote: When I select some resources in the browser and start dragging them, but my finger is still moving over other - unselected - resources, the "ghost" does not appear. The dragging operation is not visualized. It's only visualized when I move my finger outside the resource list. Your video shows this as well. the ghost is shown as soon the drag operation actually happens. is a bit difficult to trigger because of a conflict with the horizontal scroll ( a reason why probably vertical scroll would work a bit better there) so is often needed a long vertical drag before it notices i've now changed it a bit that should be a bit more reliable, triggering immadiately if the finger touches a selected icon Dragging feels a whole lot more responsive now, without being triggered accidentally. Great improvement! :) holes should look a bit better now, i'm seeing if/how is possible to make the current activity radio a drop target too Yes, they do! :) And even though the feature of current activity as a drop target is not very discoverable in its current form, of course, it's still nice to have it there and the rest can wait until after pa3 ___ Active mailing list Active@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/active
Re: Proposal: Plasma Active Three end of August
On Sunday 09 September 2012 23:41:34 Thomas Pfeiffer wrote: > > > There are still some bugs left which I'd call release blockers, I'll add > > > comments to the corresponding reports. > > > > what are those you think are the worse ones? For me currently the absolute showstoppers are: - Currently in Testing, resources cannot be added ( https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=306763 ). - I don't know if it's a bug or a usability problem, but I still can't seem to register an account for Bodega Store (that's how sebas calls it in his draft announcement, is it the official name?), which is a very serious problem. I get to the registration form, but when I try to send the data, nothing happens. However I can't login with the data I just entered, so it doesn't look like the account has been created. We cannot release Bodega Store like this. Other imho major problems are these: - Bangarang still crashes as soon as one tries to access the Media Lists, thereby making it pretty much useless unless one starts it directly with a file to be played. Probably has to be fixed by the Bangarang dev but it seems to only occur on PA. - The problem with the task switcher overlapping the keyboard ( https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=293051 ) is not catastrophic, but makes us look pretty bad - Power Management still seems to have some weirdnesses (e.g. https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=304877 ) The blockers definitely have to be fixed before we can release. I would definitely not recommend releasing with the major problems still there, since it would make us look bad, but they at least leave PA in a usable state. Cheers, Thomas ___ Active mailing list Active@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/active
Re: Proposal: Plasma Active Three end of August
On Tuesday 11 September 2012, Marco Martin wrote: > > > > slightly transparent? - The "Current Activity" filter is nice, but it > > > > would be much more useful if the Activitieswere drop targets like the > > > > tags. That way users could very easily add resources to activities > > > > without having to go through SLC or the Add Items dialog for each > > > > association. - I think the concave effect actually does help users to > > > > recognize that they can drop stuff "into" tags. Could you make the > > > > "holes" a little deeper to make it even more clear? > > > > > > yeah, that can be done > > holes should look a bit better now, i'm seeing if/how is possible to make > the current activity radio a drop target too annd drag and drop on the current activity radio works. it should have all the activities and look like the tags thing, but this is too complex for the time constraints, so post pa3 -- Marco Martin ___ Active mailing list Active@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/active
Re: Proposal: Plasma Active Three end of August
On Sunday 09 September 2012, Thomas Pfeiffer wrote: > > When I select some resources in the browser and start dragging them, but my > finger is still moving over other - unselected - resources, the "ghost" > does not appear. The dragging operation is not visualized. It's only > visualized when I move my finger outside the resource list. Your video > shows this as well. the ghost is shown as soon the drag operation actually happens. is a bit difficult to trigger because of a conflict with the horizontal scroll ( a reason why probably vertical scroll would work a bit better there) so is often needed a long vertical drag before it notices i've now changed it a bit that should be a bit more reliable, triggering immadiately if the finger touches a selected icon > > > slightly transparent? - The "Current Activity" filter is nice, but it > > > would be much more useful if the Activitieswere drop targets like the > > > tags. That way users could very easily add resources to activities > > > without having to go through SLC or the Add Items dialog for each > > > association. - I think the concave effect actually does help users to > > > recognize that they can drop stuff "into" tags. Could you make the > > > "holes" a little deeper to make it even more clear? > > > > yeah, that can be done > holes should look a bit better now, i'm seeing if/how is possible to make the current activity radio a drop target too Cheers, Marco Martin ___ Active mailing list Active@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/active
Re: Proposal: Plasma Active Three end of August
On Friday 07 September 2012 22:49:28 Marco Martin wrote: > On Thursday 06 September 2012, Thomas Pfeiffer wrote: > > - One big problem still in there is the fact that the drag & drop "ghost" > > is not shown while the finger is still positioned over any resource icon. > > This gives the impression that the dragging wasn't recognized until you > > drag past the other resource icons. I just did a "one person usability > > test" on this and the outcome was pretty much disastrous. The user simply > > thought that dragging didn't work at all. > > The dragging operation definitely needs to be visualized right after it's > > started. > > not sure what do you mean, > the operation starts when the finger is moved, like on the desktop, can't be > started before.. When I select some resources in the browser and start dragging them, but my finger is still moving over other - unselected - resources, the "ghost" does not appear. The dragging operation is not visualized. It's only visualized when I move my finger outside the resource list. Your video shows this as well. > > Then there a few things that could still be optimized (although I don't > > see > > them as a must-have for PA3): > > - The drag & drop "ghost" feels a little weird with the vertical offset. > > Placing it directly at the cursor position would certainly make the > > dragging feel more direct. The problem would of course be that you > > couldn't see where you're dragging anymore. Could the ghost be made > > yeah, i plan to change after pa3, atm there is no api for that, so would > mean a dependency from kde 4.10 ;) Okay, I can live with that ;) > > slightly transparent? - The "Current Activity" filter is nice, but it > > would be much more useful if the Activitieswere drop targets like the > > tags. That way users could very easily add resources to activities without > > having to go through SLC or the Add Items dialog for each association. > > - I think the concave effect actually does help users to recognize that > > they can drop stuff "into" tags. Could you make the "holes" a little > > deeper to make it even more clear? > > yeah, that can be done Great! > > > We also definitely need much more extensive testing compared to the > > > previous release. There are many small things which are often affected > > > by regressions (especially everything related to Activities and > > > resources) that only show when you actually try to _use_ your device > > > (like moving files from and to USB sticks, adding and removing resources > > > of many different kinds to Activities, using private Activities etc.). > > > It often happens to me that when I install an image on my Wetab and play > > > around with it a bit, everything seems fine. But then when I use it more > > > extensively, problems start appearing all over the place. And I > > > personally would like to be able to show PA3 to someone without having > > > to fear that he or she might do something that I causes all sorts of > > > bugs to pop up. > > > > There are still some bugs left which I'd call release blockers, I'll add > > comments to the corresponding reports. > > what are those you think are the worse ones? I have to take another look to spot them again, but unfortunately I'll be at a conference until Wednesday and I don't know if I'll find time there to do it. I'll get to it as soon as I can. ___ Active mailing list Active@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/active
Re: Proposal: Plasma Active Three end of August
On Thursday 06 September 2012, Thomas Pfeiffer wrote: > > - One big problem still in there is the fact that the drag & drop "ghost" > is not shown while the finger is still positioned over any resource icon. > This gives the impression that the dragging wasn't recognized until you > drag past the other resource icons. I just did a "one person usability > test" on this and the outcome was pretty much disastrous. The user simply > thought that dragging didn't work at all. > The dragging operation definitely needs to be visualized right after it's > started. not sure what do you mean, the operation starts when the finger is moved, like on the desktop, can't be started before.. > Then there a few things that could still be optimized (although I don't see > them as a must-have for PA3): > - The drag & drop "ghost" feels a little weird with the vertical offset. > Placing it directly at the cursor position would certainly make the > dragging feel more direct. The problem would of course be that you > couldn't see where you're dragging anymore. Could the ghost be made yeah, i plan to change after pa3, atm there is no api for that, so would mean a dependency from kde 4.10 ;) > slightly transparent? - The "Current Activity" filter is nice, but it > would be much more useful if the Activitieswere drop targets like the > tags. That way users could very easily add resources to activities without > having to go through SLC or the Add Items dialog for each association. > - I think the concave effect actually does help users to recognize that > they can drop stuff "into" tags. Could you make the "holes" a little > deeper to make it even more clear? yeah, that can be done > > We also definitely need much more extensive testing compared to the > > previous release. There are many small things which are often affected > > by regressions (especially everything related to Activities and > > resources) that only show when you actually try to _use_ your device > > (like moving files from and to USB sticks, adding and removing resources > > of many different kinds to Activities, using private Activities etc.). > > It often happens to me that when I install an image on my Wetab and play > > around with it a bit, everything seems fine. But then when I use it more > > extensively, problems start appearing all over the place. And I > > personally would like to be able to show PA3 to someone without having > > to fear that he or she might do something that I causes all sorts of > > bugs to pop up. > > There are still some bugs left which I'd call release blockers, I'll add > comments to the corresponding reports. > what are those you think are the worse ones? Cheers, Marco Martin ___ Active mailing list Active@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/active
Re: Proposal: Plasma Active Three end of August
Hi all, 2012/9/6 Thomas Pfeiffer > > Another thing is: Which hardware and which base system do we want it to > run > > smoothly on? I don't know about other devices and platforms, but at > least PA > > on Mer on Wetab currently has several problems, from a blank locking > screen > > to uncontrolled sleeping to the power button shutting down instead of > > locking. If these problems don't appear on other devices and we don't > care > > about Wetab, I'm fine with that. But if we want to show PA3 running on a > > Wetab without embarrassing ourselves, there are still quite a few things > to > > do. > > I haven't experienced any "narcolepsy" with the latest Devel image yet, so > perhaps this is fixed. The same goes for the blank locking screen and the > power > button shutting down. Very nice :) > There are still problems on the Archos G9, if you want to advert it as "working hardware". Maybe these problems come not from KDE but from Mer of Archos' contribution but it doesn't work flowlesly yet (though I saw small improvements in the last devel image). Some buttons (but not all) also don't react. The sleep function does not work very well (of not at all). The dpi problem is also real on a 8" screen but that can be maybe in PA4 resolved, it's not so blocking. But, that said, it is a very good project and thank you for the hard work already done. Regards, Jean ___ Active mailing list Active@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/active
Re: Proposal: Plasma Active Three end of August
Hi all, I just wanted to give feedback on where I see PA3 standing as of now: On Wednesday 08 August 2012 14:52:32 Thomas Pfeiffer wrote: > > (only thing too much unfinished in plasma-mobile master at the moment is > > the locale settings module, should be disabled) Done. > Another thing which seems unfinished is the power settings module. Currently > there are power settings in the configuration launched from the battery > Plasmoid (i.e. the regular ones from Plasma Desktop) as well as those in > the Settings app. I always try to fiddle around with both and end up not > knowing which ones are actually effective (apart from the defaults in the > Settings App module looking pretty suboptimal to me). Therefore we need to > either remove the desktop power settings and make ours actually work or > remove ours. We can#t have both. The new battery applet does not allow access to the desktop power settings, so that part is done. However the desktop KCM is still there and its settings are different to those in the PA Settings app. Does our app completely override the Desktop Powersaving KCM's settings or could they still be conflicting? Conflicting settings would be a huge problem. Could we just get rid of the desktop settings module completely? > And then there is the resource browser which wasn't in an end-user-ready > state last time I checked. Marco and me have already talked about what > needs to be improved during Akademy (and some of it has already been > implemented), yet I don't know what the current status is on that front. I really like the improvements in the resource browser. Great work, Marco! :) - One big problem still in there is the fact that the drag & drop "ghost" is not shown while the finger is still positioned over any resource icon. This gives the impression that the dragging wasn't recognized until you drag past the other resource icons. I just did a "one person usability test" on this and the outcome was pretty much disastrous. The user simply thought that dragging didn't work at all. The dragging operation definitely needs to be visualized right after it's started. Then there a few things that could still be optimized (although I don't see them as a must-have for PA3): - The drag & drop "ghost" feels a little weird with the vertical offset. Placing it directly at the cursor position would certainly make the dragging feel more direct. The problem would of course be that you couldn't see where you're dragging anymore. Could the ghost be made slightly transparent? - The "Current Activity" filter is nice, but it would be much more useful if the Activitieswere drop targets like the tags. That way users could very easily add resources to activities without having to go through SLC or the Add Items dialog for each association. - I think the concave effect actually does help users to recognize that they can drop stuff "into" tags. Could you make the "holes" a little deeper to make it even more clear? > We also definitely need much more extensive testing compared to the previous > release. There are many small things which are often affected by > regressions (especially everything related to Activities and resources) > that only show when you actually try to _use_ your device (like moving > files from and to USB sticks, adding and removing resources of many > different kinds to Activities, using private Activities etc.). It often > happens to me that when I install an image on my Wetab and play around with > it a bit, everything seems fine. But then when I use it more extensively, > problems start appearing all over the place. And I personally would like to > be able to show PA3 to someone without having to fear that he or she might > do something that I causes all sorts of bugs to pop up. There are still some bugs left which I'd call release blockers, I'll add comments to the corresponding reports. > Another thing is: Which hardware and which base system do we want it to run > smoothly on? I don't know about other devices and platforms, but at least PA > on Mer on Wetab currently has several problems, from a blank locking screen > to uncontrolled sleeping to the power button shutting down instead of > locking. If these problems don't appear on other devices and we don't care > about Wetab, I'm fine with that. But if we want to show PA3 running on a > Wetab without embarrassing ourselves, there are still quite a few things to > do. I haven't experienced any "narcolepsy" with the latest Devel image yet, so perhaps this is fixed. The same goes for the blank locking screen and the power button shutting down. Very nice :) Of course there are still the DPI-related problems, pretty much all buttons are hardly tappable at all. I assume this can't be fixed for PA3, but if we are to expand the spectrum of supported devices, DPI-awareness is an absolute must for PA4. All in all I think we're on a very good way, but some things still need to be done to get a releasab
Re: Proposal: Plasma Active Three end of August
> > > 1) Activity switcher does not work by strange side effects of pvr driver, > the activity switcher >on omapfb image works fine. > > 2) Power-management was disabled on pvr image as work around to prevent > trouble after suspend. >On omapfb image the power-management is working. > > I did test the omapfb image: 1) the activity switcher showed activities, but adding an activity or changing the settings of the existing activities locked up the activity edit screen 2) omapfb image got stuck in a loop: it said it wanted to lock the screen, but went to sleep state instead. No way to get out the cycle. Reinstalling the image and trying to locking/sleep these things in active settings didn't work. As I am trying to develop an active app, i prefer the pvr image, no power management is better than malfunctioning power management. But these issues should be discussed in a bugtracker. What I really want to say here is: bugs.kde.org is rather overwhelming for someone not involved. And I really want to get involved getting such issues revloved. I work with Qt on debian x86 at work. Some good documentation and/or guidance should get me going. ___ Active mailing list Active@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/active
Re: Proposal: Plasma Active Three end of August
Yannick Hi, > My archos G9 is currently running the pvr image from last sunday 12/08 > I'd love to help test if there is some sort of testplan, otherwise i could > need some help writing better bug-reports besides: > > 1) Activity switcher doesn't work & > 2) power-management doesn't work 1) Activity switcher does not work by strange side effects of pvr driver, the activity switcher on omapfb image works fine. 2) Power-management was disabled on pvr image as work around to prevent trouble after suspend. On omapfb image the power-management is working. Cheers, Maurice -- Maurice S. de la Ferté basysKom GmbH Südwestpark 108 | 90449 Nürnberg | Germany Tel: +49 911 689 367 - 0 | Fax: +49 911 689 367 - 299 maurice.fe...@basyskom.com | www.basyskom.com Handelsregister: Darmstadt HRB 9352 | Sitz: Darmstadt Geschäftsführung: Dr.-Ing. Eva Brucherseifer, Heike Ziegler ___ Active mailing list Active@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/active
Re: Proposal: Plasma Active Three end of August
On 08.08.2012 14:21, Marco Martin wrote: +1 since a while i try to keep it quite stable i think the state of the plasma- mobile repo is releaseable (only thing too much unfinished in plasma-mobile master at the moment is the locale settings module, should be disabled) Another thing which seems unfinished is the power settings module. Currently there are power settings in the configuration launched from the battery Plasmoid (i.e. the regular ones from Plasma Desktop) as well as those in the Settings app. I always try to fiddle around with both and end up not knowing which ones are actually effective (apart from the defaults in the Settings App module looking pretty suboptimal to me). Therefore we need to either remove the desktop power settings and make ours actually work or remove ours. We can#t have both. And then there is the resource browser which wasn't in an end-user-ready state last time I checked. Marco and me have already talked about what needs to be improved during Akademy (and some of it has already been implemented), yet I don't know what the current status is on that front. We also definitely need much more extensive testing compared to the previous release. There are many small things which are often affected by regressions (especially everything related to Activities and resources) that only show when you actually try to _use_ your device (like moving files from and to USB sticks, adding and removing resources of many different kinds to Activities, using private Activities etc.). It often happens to me that when I install an image on my Wetab and play around with it a bit, everything seems fine. But then when I use it more extensively, problems start appearing all over the place. And I personally would like to be able to show PA3 to someone without having to fear that he or she might do something that I causes all sorts of bugs to pop up. Another thing is: Which hardware and which base system do we want it to run smoothly on? I don't know about other devices and platforms, but at least PA on Mer on Wetab currently has several problems, from a blank locking screen to uncontrolled sleeping to the power button shutting down instead of locking. If these problems don't appear on other devices and we don't care about Wetab, I'm fine with that. But if we want to show PA3 running on a Wetab without embarrassing ourselves, there are still quite a few things to do. Please add anything I'm forgetting and give feedback to the plan. before (2), gathering just a list of the most prominent features on which construct the text on, i can help with that as usual, i'll help with anything, but people please don't be shy and volunteer :p I'll gladly help with testing and reporting technical/functional as well as usability issues. Cheers, Thomas ___ Active mailing list Active@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/active
Re: Proposal: Plasma Active Three end of August
> > ... , but people please don't be shy and > volunteer :p > > My archos G9 is currently running the pvr image from last sunday 12/08 I'd love to help test if there is some sort of testplan, otherwise i could need some help writing better bug-reports besides: 1) Activity switcher doesn't work & 2) power-management doesn't work grtz, Yannick ___ Active mailing list Active@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/active
Re: Proposal: Plasma Active Three end of August
On Wednesday 08 August 2012, Sebastian Kügler wrote: > Hey all, > > It's been a while since we did our previous stable release (December). > Since we basically only had feature development on the fringes (apps), > performance and bugfix work on the core, and did not merge really big > stuff into the core yet (but have plans to!), we might want to release > Plasma Active Three before we do those merges. +1 since a while i try to keep it quite stable i think the state of the plasma- mobile repo is releaseable (only thing too much unfinished in plasma-mobile master at the moment is the locale settings module, should be disabled) > The merges that are in the pipeline are Nepomuk2 ports of various > components, some moves of components from > plasma-mobile/components/mobilecomponents into kde-runtime. a pa3 release also means we can unblock the stuff that is right now in branch. at the moment the big unmerged things are: * Package component moving from org.kde.plasma.mobilecomponents to org.kde.plasmacore * the component PageRow being merged in kde-runtime (same api as PageStack, arranges pages in sliding columns, ideal for menus) * a system for alarms in plasma-mobile that comprises a dataengine a ui to set them, an ui to display them (still to come). Depends from PageRow. And yes, it uses akonadi for the alarms and they are shared with KAlarm of the above 3 points the first two should wait PA3, the third there *may* be enough time to merge it (it would have to use a private copy of PageRow in the meantime) > What's needed for the release is: > > (0) tarballs > (1) Mer image as reference implementation > (2) Announcement texts > (3) Screenshots > (4) Movie showing off current state-of-the-art > > I can do (2) and (3), and possibly (4) (if I get my broken Archos tablet to > work, otherwise on wetab again). Any more takers? :) > > Please add anything I'm forgetting and give feedback to the plan. before (2), gathering just a list of the most prominent features on which construct the text on, i can help with that as usual, i'll help with anything, but people please don't be shy and volunteer :p Cheers, Marco Martin ___ Active mailing list Active@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/active
Proposal: Plasma Active Three end of August
Hey all, It's been a while since we did our previous stable release (December). Since we basically only had feature development on the fringes (apps), performance and bugfix work on the core, and did not merge really big stuff into the core yet (but have plans to!), we might want to release Plasma Active Three before we do those merges. The merges that are in the pipeline are Nepomuk2 ports of various components, some moves of components from plasma-mobile/components/mobilecomponents into kde-runtime. What's needed for the release is: (0) tarballs (1) Mer image as reference implementation (2) Announcement texts (3) Screenshots (4) Movie showing off current state-of-the-art I can do (2) and (3), and possibly (4) (if I get my broken Archos tablet to work, otherwise on wetab again). Any more takers? :) Please add anything I'm forgetting and give feedback to the plan. -- sebas http://www.kde.org | http://vizZzion.org | GPG Key ID: 9119 0EF9 ___ Active mailing list Active@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/active
