Re: PC Magazine Enterprise Backup Article - NO MENTION OF
Hi Eric, I just can second this! Just thinking of that kind of restore makes me shudder! This should be much worse than a restore without collocation and about the same like a restore with a multiplexed backup. And think about a parallel restore of two, three or more clients, each competing for the same file on the same tape but to different times... This feature is definitely one I don't want to have and I don't need to have!! Then I'll rather buy some more tapes! Mit freundlichen Grüßen, Met vriendelijke groeten, With best regards, Bien amicalement, CU/2, Dirk Billerbeck Dirk Billerbeck GE CompuNet Kiel Enterprise Computing Solutions Am Jaegersberg 20, 24161 Altenholz (Kiel), Germany Phone: +49 (0) 431 / 3609 - 117, Fax: +49 (0) 431 / 3609 - 190, Internet: dirk.billerbeck @ gecits-eu.com This email is confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, you must not disclose or use the information contained in it. If you have received this mail in error, please tell us immediately by return email and delete the document. [EMAIL PROTECTED]@VM.MARIST.EDU on 15.02.2002 11:26:26 Please respond to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] cc: Subject: Re: PC Magazine Enterprise Backup Article - NO MENTION OF -- Hi Steve! Before we used ADSM we used Legent's ESM (now I believe it's called CA-ESM). ESM also stored one copy of each identical file. Believe me, you do not want that. The first (and thus only) copy of winword.exe is definitively stored on a different tape than the rest of the clients data. This kind of duplicate backup data elimination causes the data to be scattered across numerous tapes. I know this from experience. This is one of the reasons (the other reason was that the product was buggy as hell) we migrated from ESM to ADSM a few years ago. Kindest regards, Eric van Loon KLM Royal Dutch Airlines -Original Message- From: Stephen A. Cochran [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2002 18:46 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: PC Magazine Enterprise Backup Article - NO MENTION OF I'm not an expert with ADSM, but does ADSM have any of the advanced features that this article talked about? Can it back up a file only once for all the computers that have a copy of it? Or will it back up Winword.exe 5000 times for my whole organization? We're starting to look at what it will take to offer backup for the entire campus, and some of these advanced features would be desirable. Steve Cochran Dartmouth College ** For information, services and offers, please visit our web site: http://www.klm.com. This e-mail and any attachment may contain confidential and privileged material intended for the addressee only. If you are not the addressee, you are notified that no part of the e-mail or any attachment may be disclosed, copied or distributed, and that any other action related to this e-mail or attachment is strictly prohibited, and may be unlawful. If you have received this e-mail by error, please notify the sender immediately by return e-mail, and delete this message. Koninklijke Luchtvaart Maatschappij NV (KLM), its subsidiaries and/or its employees shall not be liable for the incorrect or incomplete transmission of this e-mail or any attachments, nor responsible for any delay in receipt. **
Re: PC Magazine Enterprise Backup Article - NO MENTION OF
Note. In our country, like Eric van Loon the Netherlands, i have never seen TSM advertisements or marketing. Not even in the business literature. .. Our country is in this sense same as netherlands regards Juraj from Austria -Original Message- From: Ilja G. Coolen [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2002 8:45 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: PC Magazine Enterprise Backup Article - NO MENTION OF I feel quite fortunate, At our site, which is a pension fund, insurance and morgage supplier, we only backup servers. The users are required to store the data they want backupped, on the fileservers. We also have an SOE on all the client stations in the company. That would be about 6000 desktops. If the desktop is corrupted, the user support guy comes along, puts a flop in the drive, takes a 30 minute coffeebreak or something, and leaves. The desktop is as good as new. All the data on it will be lost. Company policy. I like it that way. I don't have to worry about backing up the desktops. The servers are tough enough. Our serverpark consists of 140 NT boxes, 50 Aix and 15 Solaris boxes. About 80 NT boxes are fileservers, some 20 printservers ant the rest are servers running business applications. Which is not such a good idea, if you ask me. Some of the apps our company runs, require at least 3 NT boxes to run properly. Almost all the NT boxes and all Solaris boxes are backupped daily (inc of course). On the AIX we have many Oracle instances wich are archived at a daily basis. This all results in an 26GB database, holding 30+ milion files. Physical occupancy is 5.4 TB, according to the occupancy table. This is handled by a single TSM server running on an IBM H80 (RS/6000) with all its diskpools and database volumes on a shark (ESS). We have a very high expiration rate, about 60% of the entire site each day. So, to go along with Kelly, our data moves around a lot. We reclaim our ass off sort of speak. Thank God for the 3494 libraries. Note. In our country, like Eric van Loon the Netherlands, i have never seen TSM advertisements or marketing. Not even in the business literature. Veritas and Commvault with the Galaxy product is gaining market over here. Tivoli should watch its back. Or it will loose to much market due to lack of sales marketing. For what it's worth. Ilja G. Coolen _ ABP / USZO CIS / BS / TB / Storage Management Telefoon : +31(0)45 579 7938 Fax : +31(0)45 579 3990 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Intranet : Storage Web http://intranet/cis_bstb/html_content/sm/index_sm.htm _ - Everybody has a photographic memory, some just don't have film. - -Oorspronkelijk bericht- Van: Seay, Paul [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Verzonden: donderdag 14 februari 2002 5:49 Aan: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Onderwerp: Re: PC Magazine Enterprise Backup Article - NO MENTION OF Yeah, the university environment has the mine attitude at the desktop level. That is just a fact of life. We need those people to educate our future. But, if they would just spend 1 minute of discussion with the students that corporate discipline and university creativity are separate and unrelated, they would be 2 years ahead of the game before they send out their resume. The first thing we look for in selecting candidates is discipline. We do not need, not invented here types. We need creativity, discipline, and control. We answer to stockholders and auditors. If Microsoft and the UNIX software vendors built this discipline into the design of their products we would not worry about the software being mixed with the data. I would bet that your desktop my image issue would go away if you could use a common image on the restore that integrates their data as well as their preferences so they have no idea a new image was used. If they say they are installing their own stuff and it does not match then the technology to prevent duplicate saves is of no use anyway. I guarantee you if we tell Bill Gates we will buy it if he builds it, he will build it and sell it to us. Same with the UNIX software vendors. Might I suggest that a OS design forum for the vendors to discuss how to take us down that path might be in their best interest just because we will buy it. -Original Message- From: Stephen A. Cochran [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2002 11:01 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: PC Magazine Enterprise Backup Article - NO MENTION OF On Wednesday, February 13, 2002, at 10:48 PM, Kelly Lipp wrote: Right on. One would never back that stuff up in the first place so what difference does having that feature make? Well, you'd be supprised how many people do back things like that up. I'm not saying I'm advocating it, but it happens. They want their entire hard drive backed up dammit, and that's what they'll get if they scream long enough. The proposal I've recommended is central document storage
Re: PC Magazine Enterprise Backup Article - NO MENTION OF
Yes, but we need the big Tivoli guns saying it in the press, not us rambling about it here. Since their big guns are saying it, we have to defend why we don't one at a time. Makes it very hard to sell. And let's remember: we are all selling. If we already have TSM, we're selling to keep it. The competition keeps upping the technical ante and maybe by 2010, they'll be where TSM was three years ago. But the right people aren't telling the world about it. Rant over. But probably not for long! Kelly J. Lipp Storage Solutions Specialists, Inc. PO Box 51313 Colorado Springs, CO 80949 [EMAIL PROTECTED] or [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.storsol.com or www.storserver.com (719)531-5926 Fax: (240)539-7175 -Original Message- From: ADSM: Dist Stor Manager [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Nicholas Cassimatis Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2002 6:45 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: PC Magazine Enterprise Backup Article - NO MENTION OF Kelly, Let's change would to should and you'll be dead on! Nick Cassimatis [EMAIL PROTECTED] Today is the tomorrow of yesterday. Kelly Lipp [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] cc: Sent by: ADSM: Subject: Re: PC Magazine Enterprise Backup Article - NO MENTION OF Dist Stor Manager [EMAIL PROTECTED] .EDU 02/13/2002 10:48 PM Please respond to lipp Paul, Right on. One would never back that stuff up in the first place so what difference does having that feature make? Kelly J. Lipp Storage Solutions Specialists, Inc. PO Box 51313 Colorado Springs, CO 80949 [EMAIL PROTECTED] or [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.storsol.com or www.storserver.com (719)531-5926 Fax: (240)539-7175
Re: PC Magazine Enterprise Backup Article - NO MENTION OF
Paul! I didn't know you were one of us ! Ah yes - someone else who remembers the Good Ole operating system, that knew how to SEPARATE user data and customization from the OS. As a former mainframe storage manager, MICROSOFT MAKES ME CRAZY, because they STILL haven't figured that out. Unfortunately, the My Documents and Settings concept STILL doesn't work right; it lets you recover your files, but not your Windows customization. (Although Win2K has improved it a bit). Customization for your own software is, in many cases, STILL in the registry. So you can't restore your customization without restoring the registry, and you can't restore the registry without restoring the Program Files directory, so you pretty much have to restore everything, since you STILL can't separate it. I'm whining about this AGAIN, just to point out there are sites where laying down a corporate image isn't sufficient, and we are one of them. At this site it's... well, it's rocket science. Really. They have rocket scientists running around here. And Mathematicians. And Physicists. And software developers and other university-type power users. And they all have Windows desktops where they do software development, test funky software you've never heard of, or download stuff from rocket scientist web sites, for all I know... But anyway, NO TWO MACHINES are alike, and if you give them a clean machine, it takes A LOT OF TIME to reinstall all that unique software, and get their program development software recustomized, and rocket scientists are a VERY EXPENSIVE COMMODITY to spend their time dinking with Windows! So here, at least, it's WORTH THE EXTRA FEW TAPES to take that basic backup of 500 copies of Windows executables at about 300 mb each and give us the ability to do bare metal restores of individual workstations, complete with all the unique software and customization. (In fact, I would ask these questions of ANYBODY in a program-development environment: Do you really have enough time/money that you want your program developers working on customizing Bill Gate's software, instead of working for you? Don't they ever have deadlines? Have you figured out how much time they REALLY spend rebuilding their environment if you give them a clean machine? Do you actually know how much you pay them, compared to the cost of an extra tape?) Anyway, recovery requirements can be DIFFERENT, if you are backing up machines that are really used as WORKSTATIONS instead of Utility/Gateway machines and as opposed to SERVERS. And the COOL THING here is: TSM can do it. Our requirements are different than most sites, and TSM can STILL handle it. As Dwight Cook has said, I haven't run into much of anything I CANT handle with TSM.. And, as many people have said, THERE IS NO SUBSTITUTE for understanding your own environment. And as I have said: I can't believe people haven't figured out HOW EXPENSIVE this inexpensive operating system is to support! My rant of the day and nobody else's... Wanda Prather -Original Message- From: Seay, Paul [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2002 9:34 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: PC Magazine Enterprise Backup Article - NO MENTION OF Every product has to have a gimmick strong point to make it sell. Same as products that do Exchange mailbox level backup/restore, etc. The reality is this feature sounds good on paper, but in practicality is probably not useable for corporate users. Just like compression in many cases which you would think would always make sense. This is playing on the backup issue of so much data, but the management of the data is likely unwieldy. I think it could provide benefit for desktops that are deployed and reducing the amount of storage space to store the information. But, why even do that. A corporate image is used for everything these days. So, do not back it up at all and rebuild from the corporate image. The concept of My documents and settings is the answer, why? Everyone does an upgrade every 3 years anymore and you have to reinstall/move your data then. If done right, the My documents and settings approach can solve so many problems like this. So, look at the issue, if you have 10,000 users and there is 3GB, 2 files of identical image. That is 30TB and 200,000,000 files. Every backup you will have to look at 200M entries to see if they are the same and you will have to manage at least 300 tapes to hold that, and at what expense? This problem is resolved with a little discipline. Some day Microsoft will fix this and the linklist on the image will be read only meaning there will be a image stamp for the programs and OS. All data will be stored in user storage. That is the way the mainframe has worked for years. The catalogs to where the data, the security database, and the user data volumes are all that are needed on a backup in a cloned MVS world now. One image fits all. Like mainframes
Re: PC Magazine Enterprise Backup Article - NO MENTION OF
I'm not an expert with ADSM, but does ADSM have any of the advanced features that this article talked about? Can it back up a file only once for all the computers that have a copy of it? Or will it back up Winword.exe 5000 times for my whole organization? We're starting to look at what it will take to offer backup for the entire campus, and some of these advanced features would be desirable. Steve Cochran Dartmouth College
Re: PC Magazine Enterprise Backup Article - NO MENTION OF
These are not desirable features: they are required features for their product since they have to do full backups periodically and TSM does not. In addition, we will exclude winword.exe and never back it up ( why would you backup that file? If you needed to fix Winword, use the CD, not backup/restore). In fact, the best case scenario has TSM excluding everything on the desktop except for My Documents. Have the users put the files they want backed up in the that directory. I know, I know, users don't want to do that! Tough? Ok then, how about we backup files with specific extensions? .doc, .xls, etc. I know of a large site 30, nodes successfully using TSM. They move between 5-10 MB per night/per system. Works like a charm. 10 TSM servers handling this load. One must always remember that a feature is often a cover up for some other problem. In the case of the one you describe, they need while we don't. We can exclude files and we only do incrementals. Kelly J. Lipp Storage Solutions Specialists, Inc. PO Box 51313 Colorado Springs, CO 80949 [EMAIL PROTECTED] or [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.storsol.com or www.storserver.com (719)531-5926 Fax: (240)539-7175 -Original Message- From: ADSM: Dist Stor Manager [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Stephen A. Cochran Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2002 10:46 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: PC Magazine Enterprise Backup Article - NO MENTION OF I'm not an expert with ADSM, but does ADSM have any of the advanced features that this article talked about? Can it back up a file only once for all the computers that have a copy of it? Or will it back up Winword.exe 5000 times for my whole organization? We're starting to look at what it will take to offer backup for the entire campus, and some of these advanced features would be desirable. Steve Cochran Dartmouth College
Re: PC Magazine Enterprise Backup Article - NO MENTION OF
I once used a mainframe based backup product called 'Harbor'. This product had the feature you mentioned were it used pointers to a single copy of a file that existed on multiple files. What I would ask is how does the application store all the 'other' data associated with the file, ie was it NTFS on server 1 but not on server 2, security keys, compressed or not etc etc. Storing this info would not seem insurmountable but then it becomes a question of the cost of CPU and time to process this information verus the cost of storing multiple copies. Kelly's point of excluding files such as WINWORD.EXE or the entire base OS is valid assuming you have a method to ensure that the base environment is standard across all servers - in other words The Standard Operating Environment. For most companies implementing or who have implemented the SOE structure, they have to have a method to 'push out' the SOE therefore by default solving the first part of the BMR restore process (ie building the base OS including the TSM client) My opinion (for what it is worth) is that with the SAN environment becoming common place the standard ideas for BMR processing needs to be re-worked. The following is something I would like to test further. (For the following points I am referring to the EMC product offerings as that is what we use and have had success with) 1) For critical or servers with large amounts of data they should be on the SAN therefore a localised failure in the server hardware will require at worst minimal data restore. If you do not boot off of the SAN then only the OS would need to be recovered. Maybe even data that was corrupted due to an unclean shutdown. 2) Restoring from total SAN based data corruption can be facilitated by disk mirroring with Timefinder / Snapview type products. Major databases are a classic candidate including the TSM server itself. 3) For full DR and a combination of the two previous scenarios the remote mirroring (ie SRDF) is the option for those with multiple sites. Combine this with booting off of the SAN then your BMR solution would involve nothing more that sourcing the hardware and you SAN zoning. The second site option could even by supplied by you DR service provider in the form of a dark site. For TSM clients not on the SAN... Base Operating System (the SOE environment) could be on the SAN therefore in the event of a DR: - Source you Hardware and Install a Temporary HBA card - Connect boot your new hardware from the SAN. The SAN based OS would have the appropriate TSM authority to restore the 'lost server'. - Restore the entire image of the lost server to the local disk on the new hardware. - Remove the HBA reboot With standardising hardware and the hot pluggable drives in most new equipment the restore server might be a permanent SAN connected host and you could simply pull the drives and put them in your replacement server. Peter Griffin Sydney Water [EMAIL PROTECTED] 02/14/02 03:46am I'm not an expert with ADSM, but does ADSM have any of the advanced features that this article talked about? Can it back up a file only once for all the computers that have a copy of it? Or will it back up Winword.exe 5000 times for my whole organization? We're starting to look at what it will take to offer backup for the entire campus, and some of these advanced features would be desirable. Steve Cochran Dartmouth College --- This message has been scanned by MailSweeper. --- --- This e-mail is solely for the use of the intended recipient and may contain information which is confidential or privileged. Unauthorised use of its contents is prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender immediately via e-mail and then delete the original e-mail. ---
Re: PC Magazine Enterprise Backup Article - NO MENTION OF
Every product has to have a gimmick strong point to make it sell. Same as products that do Exchange mailbox level backup/restore, etc. The reality is this feature sounds good on paper, but in practicality is probably not useable for corporate users. Just like compression in many cases which you would think would always make sense. This is playing on the backup issue of so much data, but the management of the data is likely unwieldy. I think it could provide benefit for desktops that are deployed and reducing the amount of storage space to store the information. But, why even do that. A corporate image is used for everything these days. So, do not back it up at all and rebuild from the corporate image. The concept of My documents and settings is the answer, why? Everyone does an upgrade every 3 years anymore and you have to reinstall/move your data then. If done right, the My documents and settings approach can solve so many problems like this. So, look at the issue, if you have 10,000 users and there is 3GB, 2 files of identical image. That is 30TB and 200,000,000 files. Every backup you will have to look at 200M entries to see if they are the same and you will have to manage at least 300 tapes to hold that, and at what expense? This problem is resolved with a little discipline. Some day Microsoft will fix this and the linklist on the image will be read only meaning there will be a image stamp for the programs and OS. All data will be stored in user storage. That is the way the mainframe has worked for years. The catalogs to where the data, the security database, and the user data volumes are all that are needed on a backup in a cloned MVS world now. One image fits all. Like mainframes, the wantabies will figure out the value while the dinosaur moseys along having a nice day. But you wouldn't find that in a PC magazine. -Original Message- From: StorageGroupAdmin StorageGroupAdmin [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2002 6:17 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: PC Magazine Enterprise Backup Article - NO MENTION OF I once used a mainframe based backup product called 'Harbor'. This product had the feature you mentioned were it used pointers to a single copy of a file that existed on multiple files. What I would ask is how does the application store all the 'other' data associated with the file, ie was it NTFS on server 1 but not on server 2, security keys, compressed or not etc etc. Storing this info would not seem insurmountable but then it becomes a question of the cost of CPU and time to process this information verus the cost of storing multiple copies. Kelly's point of excluding files such as WINWORD.EXE or the entire base OS is valid assuming you have a method to ensure that the base environment is standard across all servers - in other words The Standard Operating Environment. For most companies implementing or who have implemented the SOE structure, they have to have a method to 'push out' the SOE therefore by default solving the first part of the BMR restore process (ie building the base OS including the TSM client) My opinion (for what it is worth) is that with the SAN environment becoming common place the standard ideas for BMR processing needs to be re-worked. The following is something I would like to test further. (For the following points I am referring to the EMC product offerings as that is what we use and have had success with) 1) For critical or servers with large amounts of data they should be on the SAN therefore a localised failure in the server hardware will require at worst minimal data restore. If you do not boot off of the SAN then only the OS would need to be recovered. Maybe even data that was corrupted due to an unclean shutdown. 2) Restoring from total SAN based data corruption can be facilitated by disk mirroring with Timefinder / Snapview type products. Major databases are a classic candidate including the TSM server itself. 3) For full DR and a combination of the two previous scenarios the remote mirroring (ie SRDF) is the option for those with multiple sites. Combine this with booting off of the SAN then your BMR solution would involve nothing more that sourcing the hardware and you SAN zoning. The second site option could even by supplied by you DR service provider in the form of a dark site. For TSM clients not on the SAN... Base Operating System (the SOE environment) could be on the SAN therefore in the event of a DR: - Source you Hardware and Install a Temporary HBA card - Connect boot your new hardware from the SAN. The SAN based OS would have the appropriate TSM authority to restore the 'lost server'. - Restore the entire image of the lost server to the local disk on the new hardware. - Remove the HBA reboot With standardising hardware and the hot pluggable drives in most new equipment the restore server might be a permanent SAN connected host and you could simply pull the drives
Re: PC Magazine Enterprise Backup Article - NO MENTION OF
Paul, Right on. One would never back that stuff up in the first place so what difference does having that feature make? Kelly J. Lipp Storage Solutions Specialists, Inc. PO Box 51313 Colorado Springs, CO 80949 [EMAIL PROTECTED] or [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.storsol.com or www.storserver.com (719)531-5926 Fax: (240)539-7175 -Original Message- From: ADSM: Dist Stor Manager [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Seay, Paul Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2002 7:34 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: PC Magazine Enterprise Backup Article - NO MENTION OF Every product has to have a gimmick strong point to make it sell. Same as products that do Exchange mailbox level backup/restore, etc. The reality is this feature sounds good on paper, but in practicality is probably not useable for corporate users. Just like compression in many cases which you would think would always make sense. This is playing on the backup issue of so much data, but the management of the data is likely unwieldy. I think it could provide benefit for desktops that are deployed and reducing the amount of storage space to store the information. But, why even do that. A corporate image is used for everything these days. So, do not back it up at all and rebuild from the corporate image. The concept of My documents and settings is the answer, why? Everyone does an upgrade every 3 years anymore and you have to reinstall/move your data then. If done right, the My documents and settings approach can solve so many problems like this. So, look at the issue, if you have 10,000 users and there is 3GB, 2 files of identical image. That is 30TB and 200,000,000 files. Every backup you will have to look at 200M entries to see if they are the same and you will have to manage at least 300 tapes to hold that, and at what expense? This problem is resolved with a little discipline. Some day Microsoft will fix this and the linklist on the image will be read only meaning there will be a image stamp for the programs and OS. All data will be stored in user storage. That is the way the mainframe has worked for years. The catalogs to where the data, the security database, and the user data volumes are all that are needed on a backup in a cloned MVS world now. One image fits all. Like mainframes, the wantabies will figure out the value while the dinosaur moseys along having a nice day. But you wouldn't find that in a PC magazine. -Original Message- From: StorageGroupAdmin StorageGroupAdmin [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2002 6:17 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: PC Magazine Enterprise Backup Article - NO MENTION OF I once used a mainframe based backup product called 'Harbor'. This product had the feature you mentioned were it used pointers to a single copy of a file that existed on multiple files. What I would ask is how does the application store all the 'other' data associated with the file, ie was it NTFS on server 1 but not on server 2, security keys, compressed or not etc etc. Storing this info would not seem insurmountable but then it becomes a question of the cost of CPU and time to process this information verus the cost of storing multiple copies. Kelly's point of excluding files such as WINWORD.EXE or the entire base OS is valid assuming you have a method to ensure that the base environment is standard across all servers - in other words The Standard Operating Environment. For most companies implementing or who have implemented the SOE structure, they have to have a method to 'push out' the SOE therefore by default solving the first part of the BMR restore process (ie building the base OS including the TSM client) My opinion (for what it is worth) is that with the SAN environment becoming common place the standard ideas for BMR processing needs to be re-worked. The following is something I would like to test further. (For the following points I am referring to the EMC product offerings as that is what we use and have had success with) 1) For critical or servers with large amounts of data they should be on the SAN therefore a localised failure in the server hardware will require at worst minimal data restore. If you do not boot off of the SAN then only the OS would need to be recovered. Maybe even data that was corrupted due to an unclean shutdown. 2) Restoring from total SAN based data corruption can be facilitated by disk mirroring with Timefinder / Snapview type products. Major databases are a classic candidate including the TSM server itself. 3) For full DR and a combination of the two previous scenarios the remote mirroring (ie SRDF) is the option for those with multiple sites. Combine this with booting off of the SAN then your BMR solution would involve nothing more that sourcing the hardware and you SAN zoning. The second site option could even by supplied by you DR service provider in the form of a dark site. For TSM clients not on the SAN... Base
Re: PC Magazine Enterprise Backup Article - NO MENTION OF
With respect to that: Say we have 500 10 GB PC's. Say they're 80% full. We back up the whole mess so we get 4 TB of data. That's only forty AIT3/LTO/SDLT tapes. In a large site that's nothing. And since we only do incrementals on these everyday, how long will it take and how much data will we move? Precious little. So even if you have lots of clients and you backup way too much you're still not in much trouble! Paul is right: most of us will restore a PC from some corporate standard image and get the user's data back as a separate step. Doing a typical TSM bare metal restore on a user desktop? Not going to happen. Kelly J. Lipp Storage Solutions Specialists, Inc. PO Box 51313 Colorado Springs, CO 80949 [EMAIL PROTECTED] or [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.storsol.com or www.storserver.com (719)531-5926 Fax: (240)539-7175 -Original Message- From: ADSM: Dist Stor Manager [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Stephen A. Cochran Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2002 9:01 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: PC Magazine Enterprise Backup Article - NO MENTION OF On Wednesday, February 13, 2002, at 10:48 PM, Kelly Lipp wrote: Right on. One would never back that stuff up in the first place so what difference does having that feature make? Well, you'd be supprised how many people do back things like that up. I'm not saying I'm advocating it, but it happens. They want their entire hard drive backed up dammit, and that's what they'll get if they scream long enough. The proposal I've recommended is central document storage on some sort of SAN/NAS, and the backups are happening locally. Much better in my mind, but we have a battle to fight to get there. Steve Cochran Dartmouth College
Re: PC Magazine Enterprise Backup Article - NO MENTION OF
Yeah, the university environment has the mine attitude at the desktop level. That is just a fact of life. We need those people to educate our future. But, if they would just spend 1 minute of discussion with the students that corporate discipline and university creativity are separate and unrelated, they would be 2 years ahead of the game before they send out their resume. The first thing we look for in selecting candidates is discipline. We do not need, not invented here types. We need creativity, discipline, and control. We answer to stockholders and auditors. If Microsoft and the UNIX software vendors built this discipline into the design of their products we would not worry about the software being mixed with the data. I would bet that your desktop my image issue would go away if you could use a common image on the restore that integrates their data as well as their preferences so they have no idea a new image was used. If they say they are installing their own stuff and it does not match then the technology to prevent duplicate saves is of no use anyway. I guarantee you if we tell Bill Gates we will buy it if he builds it, he will build it and sell it to us. Same with the UNIX software vendors. Might I suggest that a OS design forum for the vendors to discuss how to take us down that path might be in their best interest just because we will buy it. -Original Message- From: Stephen A. Cochran [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2002 11:01 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: PC Magazine Enterprise Backup Article - NO MENTION OF On Wednesday, February 13, 2002, at 10:48 PM, Kelly Lipp wrote: Right on. One would never back that stuff up in the first place so what difference does having that feature make? Well, you'd be supprised how many people do back things like that up. I'm not saying I'm advocating it, but it happens. They want their entire hard drive backed up dammit, and that's what they'll get if they scream long enough. The proposal I've recommended is central document storage on some sort of SAN/NAS, and the backups are happening locally. Much better in my mind, but we have a battle to fight to get there. Steve Cochran Dartmouth College
Re: PC Magazine Enterprise Backup Article - NO MENTION OF
I feel quite fortunate, At our site, which is a pension fund, insurance and morgage supplier, we only backup servers. The users are required to store the data they want backupped, on the fileservers. We also have an SOE on all the client stations in the company. That would be about 6000 desktops. If the desktop is corrupted, the user support guy comes along, puts a flop in the drive, takes a 30 minute coffeebreak or something, and leaves. The desktop is as good as new. All the data on it will be lost. Company policy. I like it that way. I don't have to worry about backing up the desktops. The servers are tough enough. Our serverpark consists of 140 NT boxes, 50 Aix and 15 Solaris boxes. About 80 NT boxes are fileservers, some 20 printservers ant the rest are servers running business applications. Which is not such a good idea, if you ask me. Some of the apps our company runs, require at least 3 NT boxes to run properly. Almost all the NT boxes and all Solaris boxes are backupped daily (inc of course). On the AIX we have many Oracle instances wich are archived at a daily basis. This all results in an 26GB database, holding 30+ milion files. Physical occupancy is 5.4 TB, according to the occupancy table. This is handled by a single TSM server running on an IBM H80 (RS/6000) with all its diskpools and database volumes on a shark (ESS). We have a very high expiration rate, about 60% of the entire site each day. So, to go along with Kelly, our data moves around a lot. We reclaim our ass off sort of speak. Thank God for the 3494 libraries. Note. In our country, like Eric van Loon the Netherlands, i have never seen TSM advertisements or marketing. Not even in the business literature. Veritas and Commvault with the Galaxy product is gaining market over here. Tivoli should watch its back. Or it will loose to much market due to lack of sales marketing. For what it's worth. Ilja G. Coolen _ ABP / USZO CIS / BS / TB / Storage Management Telefoon : +31(0)45 579 7938 Fax : +31(0)45 579 3990 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Intranet : Storage Web http://intranet/cis_bstb/html_content/sm/index_sm.htm _ - Everybody has a photographic memory, some just don't have film. - -Oorspronkelijk bericht- Van: Seay, Paul [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Verzonden: donderdag 14 februari 2002 5:49 Aan: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Onderwerp: Re: PC Magazine Enterprise Backup Article - NO MENTION OF Yeah, the university environment has the mine attitude at the desktop level. That is just a fact of life. We need those people to educate our future. But, if they would just spend 1 minute of discussion with the students that corporate discipline and university creativity are separate and unrelated, they would be 2 years ahead of the game before they send out their resume. The first thing we look for in selecting candidates is discipline. We do not need, not invented here types. We need creativity, discipline, and control. We answer to stockholders and auditors. If Microsoft and the UNIX software vendors built this discipline into the design of their products we would not worry about the software being mixed with the data. I would bet that your desktop my image issue would go away if you could use a common image on the restore that integrates their data as well as their preferences so they have no idea a new image was used. If they say they are installing their own stuff and it does not match then the technology to prevent duplicate saves is of no use anyway. I guarantee you if we tell Bill Gates we will buy it if he builds it, he will build it and sell it to us. Same with the UNIX software vendors. Might I suggest that a OS design forum for the vendors to discuss how to take us down that path might be in their best interest just because we will buy it. -Original Message- From: Stephen A. Cochran [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2002 11:01 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: PC Magazine Enterprise Backup Article - NO MENTION OF On Wednesday, February 13, 2002, at 10:48 PM, Kelly Lipp wrote: Right on. One would never back that stuff up in the first place so what difference does having that feature make? Well, you'd be supprised how many people do back things like that up. I'm not saying I'm advocating it, but it happens. They want their entire hard drive backed up dammit, and that's what they'll get if they scream long enough. The proposal I've recommended is central document storage on some sort of SAN/NAS, and the backups are happening locally. Much better in my mind, but we have a battle to fight to get there. Steve Cochran Dartmouth College
PC Magazine Enterprise Backup Article - NO MENTION OF TSM!! Where's the Air Support?
http://www.pcmag.com/article/0,2997,s=1470a=22041,00.asp Why in the world would an article like this appear and not have a single mention of TSM? Where is the crack marketing team? We need desperately to have air support on an issue like this. The IBM TSM folks who listen hear should send this up the pipe to the marketing folks. It is very hard to sell TSM when the only thing potential customers have heard about is full backups! This kept me up all night. Actually, it wasn't this it was some damn library/TSM interaction that I was trying to invent. I eat, sleep and breath TSM. Can I have some help please? Thanks, Kelly J. Lipp Storage Solutions Specialists, Inc. PO Box 51313 Colorado Springs, CO 80949 [EMAIL PROTECTED] or [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.storsol.com or www.storserver.com (719)531-5926 Fax: (240)539-7175
Re: PC Magazine Enterprise Backup Article - NO MENTION OF TSM!! W here's the Air Support?
I echo Kelly! Another marketing slip?: Tivoli used to provide Tivoli Data protection for workgroups (good for bare metal recovery for NT, windows, from what I heard). This product went unsupportedTHEN the pitch for bare metal recovery was to use/buy... a pgm/product from The Kernel Group. From what I understand TKG was bought out by Veritas. SO, you have a Tivoli web site pitching a product that a competitor owns? marketing slip there's a void here that Tivoli should fill, and fast! BARE METAL RECOVERY I sure would like to here what the marketing folks would have to say about this one as well!!! Thanks Tim Williams -Original Message- From: Kelly Lipp [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2002 10:59 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: PC Magazine Enterprise Backup Article - NO MENTION OF TSM!! Where's the Air Support? http://www.pcmag.com/article/0,2997,s=1470a=22041,00.asp Why in the world would an article like this appear and not have a single mention of TSM? Where is the crack marketing team? We need desperately to have air support on an issue like this. The IBM TSM folks who listen hear should send this up the pipe to the marketing folks. It is very hard to sell TSM when the only thing potential customers have heard about is full backups! This kept me up all night. Actually, it wasn't this it was some damn library/TSM interaction that I was trying to invent. I eat, sleep and breath TSM. Can I have some help please? Thanks, Kelly J. Lipp Storage Solutions Specialists, Inc. PO Box 51313 Colorado Springs, CO 80949 [EMAIL PROTECTED] or [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.storsol.com or www.storserver.com (719)531-5926 Fax: (240)539-7175
Re: PC Magazine Enterprise Backup Article - NO MENTION OF TSM!! W here's the Air Support?
Kelly ... Why didn't YOU post a response to the article? -Original Message- From: Kelly Lipp [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2002 11:59 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: PC Magazine Enterprise Backup Article - NO MENTION OF TSM!! Where's the Air Support? http://www.pcmag.com/article/0,2997,s=1470a=22041,00.asp Why in the world would an article like this appear and not have a single mention of TSM? Where is the crack marketing team? We need desperately to have air support on an issue like this. The IBM TSM folks who listen hear should send this up the pipe to the marketing folks. It is very hard to sell TSM when the only thing potential customers have heard about is full backups! This kept me up all night. Actually, it wasn't this it was some damn library/TSM interaction that I was trying to invent. I eat, sleep and breath TSM. Can I have some help please? Thanks, Kelly J. Lipp Storage Solutions Specialists, Inc. PO Box 51313 Colorado Springs, CO 80949 [EMAIL PROTECTED] or [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.storsol.com or www.storserver.com (719)531-5926 Fax: (240)539-7175 *** This message and any attachments is solely for the intended recipient. If you are not the intended recipient, disclosure, copying, use, or distribution of the information included in this message is prohibited -- please immediately and permanently delete this message.
Re: PC Magazine Enterprise Backup Article - NO MENTION OF TSM!! Where's the Air Support?
Hi Tim, when I told the Tivoli TSM Product Manager for EMEA back in early 2000 that _EVERY_ customer asks me about And what about a networked based disaster recovery with TSM? and that I had to answer Yes, you can restore your systems with TSM but it requires some manual preparations and interventions he looked at me in such a lack of understanding that I asked myself On which planet does Tivoli live? :-/ This is one of the greatest weaknesses of TSM (beside the poor reporting...) and IBM/Tivoli hasn't been able to bring its own solid and _useable_ DR tool to market in the last 10 years. Mit freundlichen Grüßen, Met vriendelijke groeten, With best regards, Bien amicalement, CU/2, Dirk Billerbeck Dirk Billerbeck GE CompuNet Kiel Enterprise Computing Solutions Am Jaegersberg 20, 24161 Altenholz (Kiel), Germany Phone: +49 (0) 431 / 3609 - 117, Fax: +49 (0) 431 / 3609 - 190, Internet: dirk.billerbeck @ gecits-eu.com This email is confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, you must not disclose or use the information contained in it. If you have received this mail in error, please tell us immediately by return email and delete the document. [EMAIL PROTECTED]@VM.MARIST.EDU on 12.02.2002 18:12:45 Please respond to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] cc: Subject: Re: PC Magazine Enterprise Backup Article - NO MENTION OF TSM!! W here's the Air Support? -- I echo Kelly! Another marketing slip?: Tivoli used to provide Tivoli Data protection for workgroups (good for bare metal recovery for NT, windows, from what I heard). This product went unsupportedTHEN the pitch for bare metal recovery was to use/buy... a pgm/product from The Kernel Group. From what I understand TKG was bought out by Veritas. SO, you have a Tivoli web site pitching a product that a competitor owns? marketing slip there's a void here that Tivoli should fill, and fast! BARE METAL RECOVERY I sure would like to here what the marketing folks would have to say about this one as well!!! Thanks Tim Williams -Original Message- From: Kelly Lipp [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2002 10:59 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: PC Magazine Enterprise Backup Article - NO MENTION OF TSM!! Where's the Air Support? http://www.pcmag.com/article/0,2997,s=1470a=22041,00.asp Why in the world would an article like this appear and not have a single mention of TSM? Where is the crack marketing team? We need desperately to have air support on an issue like this. The IBM TSM folks who listen hear should send this up the pipe to the marketing folks. It is very hard to sell TSM when the only thing potential customers have heard about is full backups! This kept me up all night. Actually, it wasn't this it was some damn library/TSM interaction that I was trying to invent. I eat, sleep and breath TSM. Can I have some help please? Thanks, Kelly J. Lipp Storage Solutions Specialists, Inc. PO Box 51313 Colorado Springs, CO 80949 [EMAIL PROTECTED] or [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.storsol.com or www.storserver.com (719)531-5926 Fax: (240)539-7175
Re: PC Magazine Enterprise Backup Article - NO MENTION OF TSM!! Where's the Air Support?
Hi *, I am a newbie to this forum BUT have been using TSM Client side/Sysback for all backup/recovery issues. Sysback works fine for the bare metal recovery and ADSM/TSM works fine for the rest. Have been using this methodology for the past 5+ years and have had very good results. When I posed the question to IBM: OK, TSM works for data recovery, what about bare metal recovery issues? The response was Sysback. I don't see why IBM would leave TSM out of an advertisement when given the opportunity though... Just my $0.02. I am just recently moving into the server side of TSM V42 and am having a bit of a learning curve but it looks hopeful... :^) I look forward to helpful hints from ya'll, thx. lt 512 823 6522 (TL: 793)
Re: PC Magazine Enterprise Backup Article - NO MENTION OF TSM!! Where's the Air Support?
Lindsey, To aid in your movement to the server side (the dark side), may I suggest a training course? IBM offers courses and so do we. Your climb on the curve will be shortened significantly! Thanks, Kelly J. Lipp Storage Solutions Specialists, Inc. PO Box 51313 Colorado Springs, CO 80949 [EMAIL PROTECTED] or [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.storsol.com or www.storserver.com (719)531-5926 Fax: (240)539-7175 -Original Message- From: ADSM: Dist Stor Manager [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Lindsey Thomson Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2002 11:16 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: PC Magazine Enterprise Backup Article - NO MENTION OF TSM!! Where's the Air Support? Hi *, I am a newbie to this forum BUT have been using TSM Client side/Sysback for all backup/recovery issues. Sysback works fine for the bare metal recovery and ADSM/TSM works fine for the rest. Have been using this methodology for the past 5+ years and have had very good results. When I posed the question to IBM: OK, TSM works for data recovery, what about bare metal recovery issues? The response was Sysback. I don't see why IBM would leave TSM out of an advertisement when given the opportunity though... Just my $0.02. I am just recently moving into the server side of TSM V42 and am having a bit of a learning curve but it looks hopeful... :^) I look forward to helpful hints from ya'll, thx. lt 512 823 6522 (TL: 793)
Re: PC Magazine Enterprise Backup Article - NO MENTION OF TSM!! W here's the Air Support?
Right from the TKG/Veritas BMR web page:
Statement of Intent
VERITAS Software will honor TKG's remarketing agreement with IBM. VERITAS
intends to provide support for and maintain BMR for TSM, including BMR
support for the upcoming 5.1 version of TSM. Future roadmap plans for this
product are under active discussion between VERITAS and IBM at this time,
and will be communicated as soon as possible.
I have a client that is interested in BMR, but since Veritas bought them I
don't feel comfortable pitching it. Don't know where it'll go.
Bill Boyer
DSS, Inc.
-Original Message-
From: ADSM: Dist Stor Manager [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of
Williams, Tim P {PBSG}
Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2002 12:13 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: PC Magazine Enterprise Backup Article - NO MENTION OF TSM!!
W here's the Air Support?
I echo Kelly!
Another marketing slip?:
Tivoli used to provide Tivoli Data protection for workgroups (good for bare
metal recovery for NT, windows, from
what I heard). This product went unsupportedTHEN the pitch for bare
metal recovery was to use/buy...
a pgm/product from The Kernel Group. From what I understand TKG was bought
out by Veritas.
SO, you have a Tivoli web site pitching a product that a competitor owns?
marketing slip
there's a void here that Tivoli should fill, and fast! BARE METAL RECOVERY
I sure would like to here what the marketing folks would have to say about
this one as well!!!
Thanks Tim Williams
-Original Message-
From: Kelly Lipp [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2002 10:59 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: PC Magazine Enterprise Backup Article - NO MENTION OF TSM!!
Where's the Air Support?
http://www.pcmag.com/article/0,2997,s=1470a=22041,00.asp
Why in the world would an article like this appear and not have a single
mention of TSM? Where is the crack marketing team? We need desperately to
have air support on an issue like this. The IBM TSM folks who listen hear
should send this up the pipe to the marketing folks. It is very hard to
sell TSM when the only thing potential customers have heard about is full
backups!
This kept me up all night. Actually, it wasn't this it was some damn
library/TSM interaction that I was trying to invent. I eat, sleep and
breath TSM. Can I have some help please?
Thanks,
Kelly J. Lipp
Storage Solutions Specialists, Inc.
PO Box 51313
Colorado Springs, CO 80949
[EMAIL PROTECTED] or [EMAIL PROTECTED]
www.storsol.com or www.storserver.com
(719)531-5926
Fax: (240)539-7175
Re: PC Magazine Enterprise Backup Article - NO MENTION OF TSM!! W here's the Air Support?
Does anyone have a good recovery senario for NT and / or Novell?
I am going into a DR test soon and will be requrired to recover several
of each, including the TSM server! :(
Yep, it sounds like TSM did a fubar depending on a small vendor
to remain autonimous in the backup/restore/disaster recovery market.
Veritas has good products too. I have sold both TSM and Veritas
NetBackup. I still like TSM but it is a harder sell quite often.
-Original Message-
From: Williams, Tim P {PBSG} [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2002 11:13 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: PC Magazine Enterprise Backup Article - NO MENTION OF
TSM!! W here's the Air Support?
I echo Kelly!
Another marketing slip?:
Tivoli used to provide Tivoli Data protection for workgroups (good for
bare
metal recovery for NT, windows, from
what I heard). This product went unsupportedTHEN the pitch for bare
metal recovery was to use/buy...
a pgm/product from The Kernel Group. From what I understand TKG was bought
out by Veritas.
SO, you have a Tivoli web site pitching a product that a competitor owns?
marketing slip
there's a void here that Tivoli should fill, and fast! BARE METAL RECOVERY
I sure would like to here what the marketing folks would have to say about
this one as well!!!
Thanks Tim Williams
-Original Message-
From: Kelly Lipp [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2002 10:59 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: PC Magazine Enterprise Backup Article - NO MENTION OF TSM!!
Where's the Air Support?
http://www.pcmag.com/article/0,2997,s=1470a=22041,00.asp
Why in the world would an article like this appear and not have a single
mention of TSM? Where is the crack marketing team? We need desperately
to
have air support on an issue like this. The IBM TSM folks who listen hear
should send this up the pipe to the marketing folks. It is very hard to
sell TSM when the only thing potential customers have heard about is full
backups!
This kept me up all night. Actually, it wasn't this it was some damn
library/TSM interaction that I was trying to invent. I eat, sleep and
breath TSM. Can I have some help please?
Thanks,
Kelly J. Lipp
Storage Solutions Specialists, Inc.
PO Box 51313
Colorado Springs, CO 80949
[EMAIL PROTECTED] or [EMAIL PROTECTED]
www.storsol.com or www.storserver.com
(719)531-5926
Fax: (240)539-7175
Re: PC Magazine Enterprise Backup Article - NO MENTION OF TSM!! W here's the Air Support?
When a penny for your thoughts is asked, I give the $0.01 version... When I am stating my view I give $0.02... For whatever it is worth... in whomever's eye lt
Re: PC Magazine Enterprise Backup Article - NO MENTION OF TSM!! W here's the Air Support?
When someone asks A penny for your thoughts? and you give your 2 cents, where does that extra penny go? -Original Message- From: Lindsey Thomson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2002 1:16 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: PC Magazine Enterprise Backup Article - NO MENTION OF TSM!! Where's the Air Support? Hi *, I am a newbie to this forum BUT have been using TSM Client side/Sysback for all backup/recovery issues. Sysback works fine for the bare metal recovery and ADSM/TSM works fine for the rest. Have been using this methodology for the past 5+ years and have had very good results. When I posed the question to IBM: OK, TSM works for data recovery, what about bare metal recovery issues? The response was Sysback. I don't see why IBM would leave TSM out of an advertisement when given the opportunity though... Just my $0.02. I am just recently moving into the server side of TSM V42 and am having a bit of a learning curve but it looks hopeful... :^) I look forward to helpful hints from ya'll, thx. lt 512 823 6522 (TL: 793)
Re: PC Magazine Enterprise Backup Article - NO MENTION OF TSM!! W here's the Air Support?
Taxes. :-) Regards, Andy Andy Raibeck IBM Software Group Tivoli Storage Manager Client Development Internal Notes e-mail: Andrew Raibeck/Tucson/IBM@IBMUS Internet e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] The only dumb question is the one that goes unasked. The command line is your friend. Good enough is the enemy of excellence. Wholey, Joseph (TGA\\MLOL) [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent by: ADSM: Dist Stor Manager [EMAIL PROTECTED] 02/12/2002 11:42 Please respond to ADSM: Dist Stor Manager To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] cc: Subject:Re: PC Magazine Enterprise Backup Article - NO MENTION OF TSM!! W here's the Air Support? When someone asks A penny for your thoughts? and you give your 2 cents, where does that extra penny go? -Original Message- From: Lindsey Thomson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2002 1:16 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: PC Magazine Enterprise Backup Article - NO MENTION OF TSM!! Where's the Air Support? Hi *, I am a newbie to this forum BUT have been using TSM Client side/Sysback for all backup/recovery issues. Sysback works fine for the bare metal recovery and ADSM/TSM works fine for the rest. Have been using this methodology for the past 5+ years and have had very good results. When I posed the question to IBM: OK, TSM works for data recovery, what about bare metal recovery issues? The response was Sysback. I don't see why IBM would leave TSM out of an advertisement when given the opportunity though... Just my $0.02. I am just recently moving into the server side of TSM V42 and am having a bit of a learning curve but it looks hopeful... :^) I look forward to helpful hints from ya'll, thx. lt 512 823 6522 (TL: 793)
Re: PC Magazine Enterprise Backup Article - NO MENTION OF TSM!! W here's the Air Support?
Obviously the extra cent is sucked up into customer satisfaction overhead by giving the customer more than what he paid for. It is then used as a tax deduction (business expense), resulting in only approximately 1/2 cent total capital expenditure for 1 cents' worth of customer satisfaction gain. Talk about a good deal, eh? Alex -Original Message- From: Wholey, Joseph (TGA\MLOL) [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2002 10:42 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: PC Magazine Enterprise Backup Article - NO MENTION OF TSM!! W here's the Air Support? When someone asks A penny for your thoughts? and you give your 2 cents, where does that extra penny go? -Original Message- From: Lindsey Thomson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2002 1:16 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: PC Magazine Enterprise Backup Article - NO MENTION OF TSM!! Where's the Air Support? Hi *, I am a newbie to this forum BUT have been using TSM Client side/Sysback for all backup/recovery issues. Sysback works fine for the bare metal recovery and ADSM/TSM works fine for the rest. Have been using this methodology for the past 5+ years and have had very good results. When I posed the question to IBM: OK, TSM works for data recovery, what about bare metal recovery issues? The response was Sysback. I don't see why IBM would leave TSM out of an advertisement when given the opportunity though... Just my $0.02. I am just recently moving into the server side of TSM V42 and am having a bit of a learning curve but it looks hopeful... :^) I look forward to helpful hints from ya'll, thx. lt 512 823 6522 (TL: 793)
