Re: [AFMUG] Cambium Firmware Release Notices?

[Sean Heskett]

Not that I’ve found but it’d be nice if they had a list you could subscribe
to.

I just check their site every now and then or wait for someone else to post
about it.

-sean


On Wed, Aug 15, 2018 at 8:02 PM Christopher Gray 
wrote:

> Is there a meaningful way to get alerts about Cambium firmware releases
> without having to check their download section daily?
>
> Thank you - Chris
>
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] [WISPA Members] Dear WISPA...

[Sean Heskett]

If ubiquiti want to go after cambium for copyright infringement then by all
means go for it.  But don’t drag Blip into conspiracy charges.

It would seem WISPA could be a co-conspirator too

On Wed, Aug 15, 2018 at 5:41 PM Mark Radabaugh  wrote:

> That’s where I’m curious about the copyright and hacking claims.   The
> loaders and many of the tools are open source and/or are supplied by the
> chipset manufacturer.
>
> Mark
>
> On Aug 15, 2018, at 5:52 PM, Mathew Howard  wrote:
>
> Yeah... it's not like you can just go download Openwrt, modify it as much
> as you want, without doing anything that even vaguely looks like hacking,
> and flash it on the things...
>
> On Wed, Aug 15, 2018 at 4:49 PM Seth Mattinen  wrote:
>
>> On 8/15/18 14:39, Mike Hammett wrote:
>> > https://www.denx.de/wiki/U-Boot
>> >
>>
>> Clearly Cambium downloaded the source code for U-Boot and "hacked"
>> UBNT's super secret hardware. Because nobody else could possibly boot a
>> generic Atheros without hacking and collusion.
>>
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

[AFMUG] Cambium Firmware Release Notices?

[Christopher Gray]

Is there a meaningful way to get alerts about Cambium firmware releases
without having to check their download section daily?

Thank you - Chris
-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] Indoor HDTV Antenna

[Matt Corcoran]

If that’s an amplified antenna that might be the problem.  When channels 
went to digital,  something about my old amplifier was not compatible.   I 
bypassed the amplifier, then my outdoor antenna worked great again. I also 
had a Radio Shack indoor antenna just like that but couldn’t get more than 1 
digital channel so I tossed it out.   I got better results with a bare bones 
rabbit ears with digital.


From: AF  on behalf of Nate Burke 
Reply-To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Date: Wednesday, August 15, 2018 at 6:53 PM
To: Animal Farm 
Subject: [AFMUG] Indoor HDTV Antenna

I'm looking to get an indoor HDTV Antenna.  Any better or worse than others?  
Chicago Transmitters are about 35 miles away over lake Michigan (Antenna will 
be used in Indiana).  It looks like on Amazon they're listed by mile range, is 
that accurate?  Do amplified antennas really work better, or is it just a 
gimmick?  I'm using an ancient radio shack antenna now that has a hoop and 
rabbit ears and an unmarked dial of some purpose.  I can pickup about 3 
channels out of Chicago if it's set at just the right place, and you stand on 
one leg, with one arm extended.
[adioShack   UHF/VHF/FM Amplified Indoor Antenna Cat. No. 15-1838]

Would a new antenna do any better than this one?

-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] Indoor HDTV Antenna

[Tim Hardy]

Antennaweb.org will tell you what you need to know

Sent from my iPad

> On Aug 15, 2018, at 7:15 PM, Sean Heskett  wrote:
> 
> can you mount one outside?
> 
> if it has to be an indoor one get as large of one as possible.
> 
> bigger=better indoor or outdoor
> 
> 
> 
>> On Wed, Aug 15, 2018 at 4:51 PM, Nate Burke  wrote:
>> I'm looking to get an indoor HDTV Antenna.  Any better or worse than others? 
>>  Chicago Transmitters are about 35 miles away over lake Michigan (Antenna 
>> will be used in Indiana).  It looks like on Amazon they're listed by mile 
>> range, is that accurate?  Do amplified antennas really work better, or is it 
>> just a gimmick?  I'm using an ancient radio shack antenna now that has a 
>> hoop and rabbit ears and an unmarked dial of some purpose.  I can pickup 
>> about 3 channels out of Chicago if it's set at just the right place, and you 
>> stand on one leg, with one arm extended.  
>> 
>> 
>> Would a new antenna do any better than this one?
>> 
>> -- 
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>> 
> 
> -- 
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] [WISPA Members] Dear WISPA...

[Mark Radabaugh]

> On Aug 15, 2018, at 7:51 PM, Seth Mattinen  wrote:
> 
> On 8/15/18 16:40, Mark Radabaugh wrote:
>> That’s where I’m curious about the copyright and hacking claims.   The 
>> loaders and many of the tools are open source and/or are supplied by the 
>> chipset manufacturer.
> 
> 
> All of this probably sounds like l33t hax0r collusion and conspiracy to UBNT. 
> Better watch out or we'll all be named next in the suit.
> 
> —


Perhaps.   Mostly it’s just the electrical engineer who used to do board level 
designs wondering.   Pretty much every chipset manufacture provides a reference 
design and coding examples for their products.  When the chipsets are 
incorporated into end products the design doesn’t usually vary much from the 
reference.   It’s not hard to identify the reference design in competing 
products.   Is it reverse engineering when you have the reference to start 
with?  Is it hacking?   Got me. 

Mark
-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] Indoor HDTV Antenna

[chuck]

Rabbit ears are not UHF and most HDTV are UHF.  The thing you show in the 
picture has a loop antenna in the middle.  If it only has one cable coming out 
they are combining the two.  

Best to get an outdoor UHF antenna.  4 bay bow tie works pretty well for HDTV.  
Make sure not to use twin lead.  Use coax.  And if the run is very long, like 
more than 25 feet, a pre amp does help.  

From: Nate Burke 
Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2018 4:51 PM
To: Animal Farm 
Subject: [AFMUG] Indoor HDTV Antenna

I'm looking to get an indoor HDTV Antenna.  Any better or worse than others?  
Chicago Transmitters are about 35 miles away over lake Michigan (Antenna will 
be used in Indiana).  It looks like on Amazon they're listed by mile range, is 
that accurate?  Do amplified antennas really work better, or is it just a 
gimmick?  I'm using an ancient radio shack antenna now that has a hoop and 
rabbit ears and an unmarked dial of some purpose.  I can pickup about 3 
channels out of Chicago if it's set at just the right place, and you stand on 
one leg, with one arm extended.  


Would a new antenna do any better than this one?




-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] [WISPA Members] Dear WISPA...

[Seth Mattinen]

On 8/15/18 16:40, Mark Radabaugh wrote:
That’s where I’m curious about the copyright and hacking claims.   The 
loaders and many of the tools are open source and/or are supplied by the 
chipset manufacturer.





All of this probably sounds like l33t hax0r collusion and conspiracy to 
UBNT. Better watch out or we'll all be named next in the suit.


--
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] [WISPA Members] Dear WISPA...

[Mark Radabaugh]

That’s where I’m curious about the copyright and hacking claims.   The loaders 
and many of the tools are open source and/or are supplied by the chipset 
manufacturer.  

Mark

> On Aug 15, 2018, at 5:52 PM, Mathew Howard  wrote:
> 
> Yeah... it's not like you can just go download Openwrt, modify it as much as 
> you want, without doing anything that even vaguely looks like hacking, and 
> flash it on the things...
> 
> On Wed, Aug 15, 2018 at 4:49 PM Seth Mattinen  > wrote:
> On 8/15/18 14:39, Mike Hammett wrote:
> > https://www.denx.de/wiki/U-Boot 
> > 
> 
> Clearly Cambium downloaded the source code for U-Boot and "hacked" 
> UBNT's super secret hardware. Because nobody else could possibly boot a 
> generic Atheros without hacking and collusion.
> 
> -- 
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com 
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com 
> 
> -- 
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] Indoor HDTV Antenna

[Sean Heskett]

can you mount one outside?

if it has to be an indoor one get as large of one as possible.

bigger=better indoor or outdoor



On Wed, Aug 15, 2018 at 4:51 PM, Nate Burke  wrote:

> I'm looking to get an indoor HDTV Antenna.  Any better or worse than
> others?  Chicago Transmitters are about 35 miles away over lake Michigan
> (Antenna will be used in Indiana).  It looks like on Amazon they're listed
> by mile range, is that accurate?  Do amplified antennas really work better,
> or is it just a gimmick?  I'm using an ancient radio shack antenna now that
> has a hoop and rabbit ears and an unmarked dial of some purpose.  I can
> pickup about 3 channels out of Chicago if it's set at just the right place,
> and you stand on one leg, with one arm extended.
> [image: RadioShack UHF/VHF/FM Amplified Indoor Antenna Cat. No. 15-1838]
>
> Would a new antenna do any better than this one?
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
>
-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

[AFMUG] Indoor HDTV Antenna

[Nate Burke]

I'm looking to get an indoor HDTV Antenna.  Any better or worse than 
others?  Chicago Transmitters are about 35 miles away over lake Michigan 
(Antenna will be used in Indiana).  It looks like on Amazon they're 
listed by mile range, is that accurate?  Do amplified antennas really 
work better, or is it just a gimmick?  I'm using an ancient radio shack 
antenna now that has a hoop and rabbit ears and an unmarked dial of some 
purpose.  I can pickup about 3 channels out of Chicago if it's set at 
just the right place, and you stand on one leg, with one arm extended.

RadioShack UHF/VHF/FM Amplified Indoor Antenna Cat. No. 15-1838

Would a new antenna do any better than this one?
-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] [WISPA Members] Dear WISPA...

[Mathew Howard]

Yeah... it's not like you can just go download Openwrt, modify it as much
as you want, without doing anything that even vaguely looks like hacking,
and flash it on the things...

On Wed, Aug 15, 2018 at 4:49 PM Seth Mattinen  wrote:

> On 8/15/18 14:39, Mike Hammett wrote:
> > https://www.denx.de/wiki/U-Boot
> >
>
> Clearly Cambium downloaded the source code for U-Boot and "hacked"
> UBNT's super secret hardware. Because nobody else could possibly boot a
> generic Atheros without hacking and collusion.
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] [WISPA Members] Dear WISPA...

[Seth Mattinen]

On 8/15/18 14:39, Mike Hammett wrote:

https://www.denx.de/wiki/U-Boot



Clearly Cambium downloaded the source code for U-Boot and "hacked" 
UBNT's super secret hardware. Because nobody else could possibly boot a 
generic Atheros without hacking and collusion.


--
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] [WISPA Members] Dear WISPA...

[Mike Hammett]

https://www.denx.de/wiki/U-Boot 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: ch...@wbmfg.com 
To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group"  
Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2018 1:35:47 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] [WISPA Members] Dear WISPA... 




I have another take. This license agreement was created before the recent 
Supreme Court ruling on things like this. I believe the new ruling lets us do 
whatever we want with the hardware. 

However if they are still using UBNT boot loaders or other software elements, 
then I would agree that the license would prevent. 

I was one of those that poked Canopy memory locations. Never got a lawyer call. 
But I never got it to survive a reboot either. 




From: Jeremy 
Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2018 5:26 AM 
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] [WISPA Members] Dear WISPA... 


Read the licensing agreement on both provider's radios. You will find that UBNT 
we're well within their right to sue, and I am honestly surprised that it did 
not happen sooner. The attitude of 'I own it, and can do what I want with it', 
doesn't hold up according to both of their licensing agreements. 

You may recall when vendors and customers were changing a couple of hexadecimal 
digits in order to turn Canopy SMs into APs. As I recall, this went on for a 
long time, and only stopped because Cambium sent their lawyers after everyone 
involved. 

This issue is pretty cut and dry, and UBNT are well within their rights on 
this, and will almost certainly prevail in this lawsuit. 


On Wed, Aug 15, 2018, 5:34 PM Sean Heskett < af...@zirkel.us > wrote: 



Chuck, 

Thank you for your response and thank you for the board looking into the 
matter. Yes an ultimatum is an extreme position but I didn't start this, 
Ubiquiti did. 

This is an extremely serious matter for all the members so i decided to scream 
loudly and publicly, i'm not a politician, just a business owner that sees our 
industry under attack. We are a service provider association , not a vendor 
association and we are nice enough to let vendors into our group and give them 
access to our members. I know they also supply some much needed funding for 
WISPA, but it's a two way street and the association should be EXTREMELY 
concerned when a vendor sues it's own customer . Yes it will be tried in a 
court of law but that doesn't mean WISPA can't also take action. 

I'm not trying to cause a division, ubiquiti is at fault for that. I'm just 
raising alarm bells that they are attacking us, their customers. 

I look forward to the board's response. 


On Wed, Aug 15, 2018 at 10:44 AM, Chuck Hogg < ch...@allpointsbroadband.com > 
wrote: 




Sean, 

When I joined WISPA, it was for many of the same reasons you joined. I loved 
the community, wanted to be a part of it, and wanted to ensure that everyone in 
the WISP industry is given a fair shake. 

I appreciate you raising this issue, although I wish you would have called me 
or another WISPA board member before giving WISPA an ultimatum on the members’ 
listserv. I’m concerned that your approach stokes division and argument, rather 
than unity. 

Like you, I'm sad that these WISPA members have been unable to work out the 
issues between them and have resorted to duking it out in court. I hate to see 
little guys get caught up in this mess. But as others have said, we have no 
idea at this time whether the allegations are true or false. They're just 
allegations at this point. 

Nonetheless, these are serious issues, and you've asked the board to act. We 
will of course consider your request, meaning we will gather what information 
we can and determine whether and when we can make an informed and meaningful 
decision. 

Please feel free to reach out to us directly as this case continues to unfold. 


Regards, 
Chuck 









On Tue, Aug 14, 2018 at 2:46 PM Sean Heskett < af...@zirkel.us > wrote: 





An Open Letter to WISPA, the Board of Directors and all WISPA members. 

Our industry and indeed WISPA itself if founded on the bedrock of helping one 
another to further our industry and our businesses. This group is a dedicated, 
committed group of IT cowboys that try their hardest to get things done and 
move forward. When one of our members suffers or has difficulty, we are all 
there to stand with them and provide whatever help necessary. When disaster 
strikes we jump in and help as in the case of several hurricanes and bad storms 
over the years. We also actively strive to help each other solve difficult 
problems whether it be configuring a server, securing financing, finding the 
best hardware solution to solve a problem or any other myriad of issues our 
businesses face the members of WISPA are there to help! I joined WISPA because 
I felt it was a great thing for me and my business and I want to support WISPA 
anyway I can, however our membership is being attacked fr

Re: [AFMUG] [WISPA Members] Dear WISPA...

[Mike Hammett]

Are you on the payroll? 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Jeremy"  
To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group"  
Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2018 6:26:32 AM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] [WISPA Members] Dear WISPA... 


Read the licensing agreement on both provider's radios. You will find that UBNT 
we're well within their right to sue, and I am honestly surprised that it did 
not happen sooner. The attitude of 'I own it, and can do what I want with it', 
doesn't hold up according to both of their licensing agreements. 


You may recall when vendors and customers were changing a couple of hexadecimal 
digits in order to turn Canopy SMs into APs. As I recall, this went on for a 
long time, and only stopped because Cambium sent their lawyers after everyone 
involved. 


This issue is pretty cut and dry, and UBNT are well within their rights on 
this, and will almost certainly prevail in this lawsuit. 


On Wed, Aug 15, 2018, 5:34 PM Sean Heskett < af...@zirkel.us > wrote: 



Chuck, 


Thank you for your response and thank you for the board looking into the 
matter. Yes an ultimatum is an extreme position but I didn't start this, 
Ubiquiti did. 


This is an extremely serious matter for all the members so i decided to scream 
loudly and publicly, i'm not a politician, just a business owner that sees our 
industry under attack. We are a service provider association , not a vendor 
association and we are nice enough to let vendors into our group and give them 
access to our members. I know they also supply some much needed funding for 
WISPA, but it's a two way street and the association should be EXTREMELY 
concerned when a vendor sues it's own customer . Yes it will be tried in a 
court of law but that doesn't mean WISPA can't also take action. 


I'm not trying to cause a division, ubiquiti is at fault for that. I'm just 
raising alarm bells that they are attacking us, their customers. 


I look forward to the board's response. 


On Wed, Aug 15, 2018 at 10:44 AM, Chuck Hogg < ch...@allpointsbroadband.com > 
wrote: 




Sean, 

When I joined WISPA, it was for many of the same reasons you joined. I loved 
the community, wanted to be a part of it, and wanted to ensure that everyone in 
the WISP industry is given a fair shake. 

I appreciate you raising this issue, although I wish you would have called me 
or another WISPA board member before giving WISPA an ultimatum on the members’ 
listserv. I’m concerned that your approach stokes division and argument, rather 
than unity. 

Like you, I'm sad that these WISPA members have been unable to work out the 
issues between them and have resorted to duking it out in court. I hate to see 
little guys get caught up in this mess. But as others have said, we have no 
idea at this time whether the allegations are true or false. They're just 
allegations at this point. 

Nonetheless, these are serious issues, and you've asked the board to act. We 
will of course consider your request, meaning we will gather what information 
we can and determine whether and when we can make an informed and meaningful 
decision. 

Please feel free to reach out to us directly as this case continues to unfold. 


Regards, 
Chuck 









On Tue, Aug 14, 2018 at 2:46 PM Sean Heskett < af...@zirkel.us > wrote: 





An Open Letter to WISPA, the Board of Directors and all WISPA members. 


Our industry and indeed WISPA itself if founded on the bedrock of helping one 
another to further our industry and our businesses. This group is a dedicated, 
committed group of IT cowboys that try their hardest to get things done and 
move forward. When one of our members suffers or has difficulty, we are all 
there to stand with them and provide whatever help necessary. When disaster 
strikes we jump in and help as in the case of several hurricanes and bad storms 
over the years. We also actively strive to help each other solve difficult 
problems whether it be configuring a server, securing financing, finding the 
best hardware solution to solve a problem or any other myriad of issues our 
businesses face the members of WISPA are there to help! I joined WISPA because 
I felt it was a great thing for me and my business and I want to support WISPA 
anyway I can, however our membership is being attacked from within and I call 
on the board to take corrective action immediately and forcefully! 


Ubiquiti Networks has recently sued Cambium as well as Blip Networks (a fellow 
WISP), Winncom Technologies (a WISPA vendor), Sakid Ahmed (Cambium VP of 
engineering) and Dmitry Moiseev (project engineer at Cambium) over Cambiums 
“Elevate technology”. I’ve attached the legal complaint so you can read all the 
details yourself. Basically the group is accused of “hacking” ubiquiti 
equipment by loading a different operating system and user interface on 
Ubiquiti subscriber radios so that they interoperate with Cambium

Re: [AFMUG] Low Temperature AC

[TJ Trout]

google coolbot

On Wed, Aug 15, 2018 at 12:28 PM,  wrote:

> Be aware that some of these units will not come back online after a power
> outage without using the remote.  Learned that lesson the hard way.
> Cobbled together a remote control button pusher on a timer.  What a bunch
> of crap.
>
> *From:* Lewis Bergman
> *Sent:* Wednesday, August 15, 2018 1:23 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Low Temperature AC
>
> Mitsubishi is definitely the leader in that space. I would suggest
> contacting them and getting the name of a dealer they suggest using.
>
> On Wed, Aug 15, 2018 at 1:43 PM Jason McKemie <
> j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com> wrote:
>
>> You could just connect a draft beer cooling system to a radiator with a
>> fan. I'm partially joking, but only partially.
>>
>> On Wednesday, August 15, 2018, Seth Mattinen  wrote:
>>
>>> On 8/15/18 09:59, Nate Burke wrote:
>>>
 Unfortunately I don't have a good way to get outdoor ducts to the
 location.  The Building HVAC has this setup, but when it's cold, they don't
 pull in outdoor air so it just recycles the already hot indoor air.  That's
 why I need extra cooling.  The Building HVAC mostly handles it fine over
 the summer, but in the winter is when I have heat problems.

>>>
>>>
>>> Closed glycol loop with heat exchangers. But that stuff is usually seen
>>> as "premium" and could cost more than a mini split.
>>>
>>> --
>>> AF mailing list
>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>>
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
>
>
> --
> Lewis Bergman
> 325-439-0533 Cell
>
> --
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
>
-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] Dear WISPA...

[Mathew Howard]

SM to AP probably wouldn't work too well with 430/450, since the AP
hardware is completely different (well, with one or two exceptions).

But anyway, yes, they most likely would sue you to at least get that info
taken down. But posting information on how to hack a radio to do something
it's not supposed to do, is a lot different than being involved in a case
study for a commercial product (which is all we know of that the WISP in
question actually did, at this point). Of course it's entirely possible
that this WISP did do a lot more than that, and was involved in
who-knows-what, that justifies them being sued... but if that is the case,
it seems to be that it would be in UBNT's best interests to get that
information out there as fast as they can, because right now, it looks like
they're going after these guys just for buying a product that most of us
assumed was legal, based on the fact that it was being sold by a reputable
company.

On Wed, Aug 15, 2018 at 2:32 PM Jeremy  wrote:

> Afaik it was still possible on OFDM, albeit with a JTAG.  4meg to 20meg,
> SM to AP, etc.  Still, it is a very similar argument and they also got
> lawyers involved.
>
> The point is simply that the licensing agreement on both vendors have
> limitations on what you are allowed to do with the hardware and software.
> I am pretty sure that public posts on how to dump firmware, modify or
> replace firmware, and load different firmware is prohibited on both
> vendor's devices.  I am certain that they would sue me if I publicly
> detailed the process to do so, WISP owner or not.  Whether or not this is
> warranted is definitely a matter of debate, likely best left up to the
> courts.
>
> On Wed, Aug 15, 2018, 7:15 PM Mathew Howard  wrote:
>
>> I suspect Cambium wouldn't care a whole lot at this point, since that
>> hardware is all pretty much obsolete. If you did something like turning a
>> PMP450 SM into a PTP450, then you might get a lawsuit.
>>
>> On Wed, Aug 15, 2018 at 1:46 PM Jeremy  wrote:
>>
>>> It survived a reboot with one more minor change, and a little bird told
>>> me that it was possible on v11 as well.  I wonder, if I show you all how to
>>> do it simply with a JTAG if I'd get a lawsuit.  I would bet you money that
>>> the lawsuit would hit very swiftly.  Perhaps I am wrong.  Cambium, do you
>>> mind if someone sends these WISPs down the rabbit hole, or is this a
>>> one-sided argument?  Does your license agreement allow me to reverse
>>> engineer Cambium radios, as a WISP, and then show my fellow colleagues how
>>> I can do it?
>>>
>>> On Wed, Aug 15, 2018, 6:39 PM Jason McKemie <
>>> j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com> wrote:
>>>
 I'd agree with most of this, however I do think their decision to go
 after a WISP was a mistake.

 On Wednesday, August 15, 2018, Jeremy  wrote:

> Read the licensing agreement on both provider's radios.  You will find
> that UBNT we're well within their right to sue, and I am honestly 
> surprised
> that it did not happen sooner.  The attitude of 'I own it, and can do what
> I want with it', doesn't hold up according to both of their licensing
> agreements.
>
> You may recall when vendors and customers were changing a couple of
> hexadecimal digits in order to turn Canopy SMs into APs.  As I recall, 
> this
> went on for a long time, and only stopped because Cambium sent their
> lawyers after everyone involved.
>
> This issue is pretty cut and dry, and UBNT are well within their
> rights on this, and will almost certainly prevail in this lawsuit.
>
> On Wed, Aug 15, 2018, 5:34 PM Sean Heskett  wrote:
>
>> Chuck,
>>
>> Thank you for your response and thank you for the board looking into
>> the matter.  Yes an ultimatum is an extreme position but I didn't start
>> this, Ubiquiti did.
>>
>> This is an extremely serious matter for all the members so i decided
>> to scream loudly and publicly, i'm not a politician, just a business 
>> owner
>> that sees our industry under attack.  We are a *service provider
>> association*, not a *vendor association* and we are nice enough to
>> let vendors into our group and give them access to our members.  I know
>> they also supply some much needed funding for WISPA, but it's a two way
>> street and the association should be *EXTREMELY concerned when a
>> vendor sues it's own customer*.  Yes it will be tried in a court of
>> law but that doesn't mean WISPA can't also take action.
>>
>> I'm not trying to cause a division, ubiquiti is at fault for that.
>> I'm just raising alarm bells that they are attacking us, their customers.
>>
>> I look forward to the board's response.
>>
>> On Wed, Aug 15, 2018 at 10:44 AM, Chuck Hogg <
>> ch...@allpointsbroadband.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Sean,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> When I joined WISPA, it was for many of the same reasons y

Re: [AFMUG] Dear WISPA...

[Jeremy]

Afaik it was still possible on OFDM, albeit with a JTAG.  4meg to 20meg, SM
to AP, etc.  Still, it is a very similar argument and they also got lawyers
involved.

The point is simply that the licensing agreement on both vendors have
limitations on what you are allowed to do with the hardware and software.
I am pretty sure that public posts on how to dump firmware, modify or
replace firmware, and load different firmware is prohibited on both
vendor's devices.  I am certain that they would sue me if I publicly
detailed the process to do so, WISP owner or not.  Whether or not this is
warranted is definitely a matter of debate, likely best left up to the
courts.

On Wed, Aug 15, 2018, 7:15 PM Mathew Howard  wrote:

> I suspect Cambium wouldn't care a whole lot at this point, since that
> hardware is all pretty much obsolete. If you did something like turning a
> PMP450 SM into a PTP450, then you might get a lawsuit.
>
> On Wed, Aug 15, 2018 at 1:46 PM Jeremy  wrote:
>
>> It survived a reboot with one more minor change, and a little bird told
>> me that it was possible on v11 as well.  I wonder, if I show you all how to
>> do it simply with a JTAG if I'd get a lawsuit.  I would bet you money that
>> the lawsuit would hit very swiftly.  Perhaps I am wrong.  Cambium, do you
>> mind if someone sends these WISPs down the rabbit hole, or is this a
>> one-sided argument?  Does your license agreement allow me to reverse
>> engineer Cambium radios, as a WISP, and then show my fellow colleagues how
>> I can do it?
>>
>> On Wed, Aug 15, 2018, 6:39 PM Jason McKemie <
>> j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com> wrote:
>>
>>> I'd agree with most of this, however I do think their decision to go
>>> after a WISP was a mistake.
>>>
>>> On Wednesday, August 15, 2018, Jeremy  wrote:
>>>
 Read the licensing agreement on both provider's radios.  You will find
 that UBNT we're well within their right to sue, and I am honestly surprised
 that it did not happen sooner.  The attitude of 'I own it, and can do what
 I want with it', doesn't hold up according to both of their licensing
 agreements.

 You may recall when vendors and customers were changing a couple of
 hexadecimal digits in order to turn Canopy SMs into APs.  As I recall, this
 went on for a long time, and only stopped because Cambium sent their
 lawyers after everyone involved.

 This issue is pretty cut and dry, and UBNT are well within their rights
 on this, and will almost certainly prevail in this lawsuit.

 On Wed, Aug 15, 2018, 5:34 PM Sean Heskett  wrote:

> Chuck,
>
> Thank you for your response and thank you for the board looking into
> the matter.  Yes an ultimatum is an extreme position but I didn't start
> this, Ubiquiti did.
>
> This is an extremely serious matter for all the members so i decided
> to scream loudly and publicly, i'm not a politician, just a business owner
> that sees our industry under attack.  We are a *service provider
> association*, not a *vendor association* and we are nice enough to
> let vendors into our group and give them access to our members.  I know
> they also supply some much needed funding for WISPA, but it's a two way
> street and the association should be *EXTREMELY concerned when a
> vendor sues it's own customer*.  Yes it will be tried in a court of
> law but that doesn't mean WISPA can't also take action.
>
> I'm not trying to cause a division, ubiquiti is at fault for that.
> I'm just raising alarm bells that they are attacking us, their customers.
>
> I look forward to the board's response.
>
> On Wed, Aug 15, 2018 at 10:44 AM, Chuck Hogg <
> ch...@allpointsbroadband.com> wrote:
>
>> Sean,
>>
>>
>>
>> When I joined WISPA, it was for many of the same reasons you joined.
>> I loved the community, wanted to be a part of it, and wanted to ensure 
>> that
>> everyone in the WISP industry is given a fair shake.
>>
>>
>>
>> I appreciate you raising this issue, although I wish you would have
>> called me or another WISPA board member before giving WISPA an ultimatum 
>> on
>> the members’ listserv. I’m concerned that your approach stokes division 
>> and
>> argument, rather than unity.
>>
>>
>>
>> Like you, I'm sad that these WISPA members have been unable to work
>> out the issues between them and have resorted to duking it out in court. 
>> I
>> hate to see little guys get caught up in this mess. But as others have
>> said, we have no idea at this time whether the allegations are true or
>> false. They're just allegations at this point.
>>
>>
>>
>> Nonetheless, these are serious issues, and you've asked the board to
>> act. We will of course consider your request, meaning we will gather what
>> information we can and determine whether and when we can

Re: [AFMUG] Low Temperature AC

[chuck]

Be aware that some of these units will not come back online after a power 
outage without using the remote.  Learned that lesson the hard way.  Cobbled 
together a remote control button pusher on a timer.  What a bunch of crap.  

From: Lewis Bergman 
Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2018 1:23 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Low Temperature AC

Mitsubishi is definitely the leader in that space. I would suggest contacting 
them and getting the name of a dealer they suggest using.

On Wed, Aug 15, 2018 at 1:43 PM Jason McKemie 
 wrote:

  You could just connect a draft beer cooling system to a radiator with a fan. 
I'm partially joking, but only partially.

  On Wednesday, August 15, 2018, Seth Mattinen  wrote:

On 8/15/18 09:59, Nate Burke wrote:

  Unfortunately I don't have a good way to get outdoor ducts to the 
location.  The Building HVAC has this setup, but when it's cold, they don't 
pull in outdoor air so it just recycles the already hot indoor air.  That's why 
I need extra cooling.  The Building HVAC mostly handles it fine over the 
summer, but in the winter is when I have heat problems.



Closed glycol loop with heat exchangers. But that stuff is usually seen as 
"premium" and could cost more than a mini split.

-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

  -- 
  AF mailing list
  AF@af.afmug.com
  http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com



-- 

Lewis Bergman 
325-439-0533 Cell



-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] Low Temperature AC

[Lewis Bergman]

Mitsubishi is definitely the leader in that space. I would suggest
contacting them and getting the name of a dealer they suggest using.

On Wed, Aug 15, 2018 at 1:43 PM Jason McKemie <
j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com> wrote:

> You could just connect a draft beer cooling system to a radiator with a
> fan. I'm partially joking, but only partially.
>
> On Wednesday, August 15, 2018, Seth Mattinen  wrote:
>
>> On 8/15/18 09:59, Nate Burke wrote:
>>
>>> Unfortunately I don't have a good way to get outdoor ducts to the
>>> location.  The Building HVAC has this setup, but when it's cold, they don't
>>> pull in outdoor air so it just recycles the already hot indoor air.  That's
>>> why I need extra cooling.  The Building HVAC mostly handles it fine over
>>> the summer, but in the winter is when I have heat problems.
>>>
>>
>>
>> Closed glycol loop with heat exchangers. But that stuff is usually seen
>> as "premium" and could cost more than a mini split.
>>
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>


-- 
Lewis Bergman
325-439-0533 Cell
-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] Dear WISPA...

[Mathew Howard]

I suspect Cambium wouldn't care a whole lot at this point, since that
hardware is all pretty much obsolete. If you did something like turning a
PMP450 SM into a PTP450, then you might get a lawsuit.

On Wed, Aug 15, 2018 at 1:46 PM Jeremy  wrote:

> It survived a reboot with one more minor change, and a little bird told me
> that it was possible on v11 as well.  I wonder, if I show you all how to do
> it simply with a JTAG if I'd get a lawsuit.  I would bet you money that the
> lawsuit would hit very swiftly.  Perhaps I am wrong.  Cambium, do you mind
> if someone sends these WISPs down the rabbit hole, or is this a one-sided
> argument?  Does your license agreement allow me to reverse engineer Cambium
> radios, as a WISP, and then show my fellow colleagues how I can do it?
>
> On Wed, Aug 15, 2018, 6:39 PM Jason McKemie <
> j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com> wrote:
>
>> I'd agree with most of this, however I do think their decision to go
>> after a WISP was a mistake.
>>
>> On Wednesday, August 15, 2018, Jeremy  wrote:
>>
>>> Read the licensing agreement on both provider's radios.  You will find
>>> that UBNT we're well within their right to sue, and I am honestly surprised
>>> that it did not happen sooner.  The attitude of 'I own it, and can do what
>>> I want with it', doesn't hold up according to both of their licensing
>>> agreements.
>>>
>>> You may recall when vendors and customers were changing a couple of
>>> hexadecimal digits in order to turn Canopy SMs into APs.  As I recall, this
>>> went on for a long time, and only stopped because Cambium sent their
>>> lawyers after everyone involved.
>>>
>>> This issue is pretty cut and dry, and UBNT are well within their rights
>>> on this, and will almost certainly prevail in this lawsuit.
>>>
>>> On Wed, Aug 15, 2018, 5:34 PM Sean Heskett  wrote:
>>>
 Chuck,

 Thank you for your response and thank you for the board looking into
 the matter.  Yes an ultimatum is an extreme position but I didn't start
 this, Ubiquiti did.

 This is an extremely serious matter for all the members so i decided to
 scream loudly and publicly, i'm not a politician, just a business owner
 that sees our industry under attack.  We are a *service provider
 association*, not a *vendor association* and we are nice enough to let
 vendors into our group and give them access to our members.  I know they
 also supply some much needed funding for WISPA, but it's a two way street
 and the association should be *EXTREMELY concerned when a vendor sues
 it's own customer*.  Yes it will be tried in a court of law but that
 doesn't mean WISPA can't also take action.

 I'm not trying to cause a division, ubiquiti is at fault for that.  I'm
 just raising alarm bells that they are attacking us, their customers.

 I look forward to the board's response.

 On Wed, Aug 15, 2018 at 10:44 AM, Chuck Hogg <
 ch...@allpointsbroadband.com> wrote:

> Sean,
>
>
>
> When I joined WISPA, it was for many of the same reasons you joined. I
> loved the community, wanted to be a part of it, and wanted to ensure that
> everyone in the WISP industry is given a fair shake.
>
>
>
> I appreciate you raising this issue, although I wish you would have
> called me or another WISPA board member before giving WISPA an ultimatum 
> on
> the members’ listserv. I’m concerned that your approach stokes division 
> and
> argument, rather than unity.
>
>
>
> Like you, I'm sad that these WISPA members have been unable to work
> out the issues between them and have resorted to duking it out in court. I
> hate to see little guys get caught up in this mess. But as others have
> said, we have no idea at this time whether the allegations are true or
> false. They're just allegations at this point.
>
>
>
> Nonetheless, these are serious issues, and you've asked the board to
> act. We will of course consider your request, meaning we will gather what
> information we can and determine whether and when we can make an informed
> and meaningful decision.
>
>
>
> Please feel free to reach out to us directly as this case continues to
> unfold.
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Chuck
>
>
>
>
> On Tue, Aug 14, 2018 at 2:46 PM Sean Heskett  wrote:
>
>> An Open Letter to WISPA, the Board of Directors and all WISPA members.
>>
>> Our industry and indeed WISPA itself if founded on the bedrock of
>> helping one another to further our industry and our businesses.  This 
>> group
>> is a dedicated, committed group of IT cowboys that try their hardest to 
>> get
>> things done and move forward.  When one of our members suffers or has
>> difficulty, we are all there to stand with them and provide whatever help
>> necessary.  When disaster strikes we j

Re: [AFMUG] Dear WISPA...

[chuck]

That is an Easter Egg.

-Original Message- 
From: Seth Mattinen 
Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2018 12:58 PM 
To: af@af.afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Dear WISPA... 


On 8/15/18 04:41, Jeremy wrote:
It survived a reboot with one more minor change, and a little bird told 
me that it was possible on v11 as well.  I wonder, if I show you all how 
to do it simply with a JTAG if I'd get a lawsuit.  I would bet you money 
that the lawsuit would hit very swiftly.  Perhaps I am wrong. Cambium, 
do you mind if someone sends these WISPs down the rabbit hole, or is 
this a one-sided argument?  Does your license agreement allow me to 
reverse engineer Cambium radios, as a WISP, and then show my fellow 
colleagues how I can do it?



That's not reverse engineering.

--
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

--
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] Dear WISPA...

[Seth Mattinen]

On 8/15/18 04:41, Jeremy wrote:
It survived a reboot with one more minor change, and a little bird told 
me that it was possible on v11 as well.  I wonder, if I show you all how 
to do it simply with a JTAG if I'd get a lawsuit.  I would bet you money 
that the lawsuit would hit very swiftly.  Perhaps I am wrong. Cambium, 
do you mind if someone sends these WISPs down the rabbit hole, or is 
this a one-sided argument?  Does your license agreement allow me to 
reverse engineer Cambium radios, as a WISP, and then show my fellow 
colleagues how I can do it?



That's not reverse engineering.

--
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] Dear WISPA...

[Jeremy]

It survived a reboot with one more minor change, and a little bird told me
that it was possible on v11 as well.  I wonder, if I show you all how to do
it simply with a JTAG if I'd get a lawsuit.  I would bet you money that the
lawsuit would hit very swiftly.  Perhaps I am wrong.  Cambium, do you mind
if someone sends these WISPs down the rabbit hole, or is this a one-sided
argument?  Does your license agreement allow me to reverse engineer Cambium
radios, as a WISP, and then show my fellow colleagues how I can do it?

On Wed, Aug 15, 2018, 6:39 PM Jason McKemie <
j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com> wrote:

> I'd agree with most of this, however I do think their decision to go after
> a WISP was a mistake.
>
> On Wednesday, August 15, 2018, Jeremy  wrote:
>
>> Read the licensing agreement on both provider's radios.  You will find
>> that UBNT we're well within their right to sue, and I am honestly surprised
>> that it did not happen sooner.  The attitude of 'I own it, and can do what
>> I want with it', doesn't hold up according to both of their licensing
>> agreements.
>>
>> You may recall when vendors and customers were changing a couple of
>> hexadecimal digits in order to turn Canopy SMs into APs.  As I recall, this
>> went on for a long time, and only stopped because Cambium sent their
>> lawyers after everyone involved.
>>
>> This issue is pretty cut and dry, and UBNT are well within their rights
>> on this, and will almost certainly prevail in this lawsuit.
>>
>> On Wed, Aug 15, 2018, 5:34 PM Sean Heskett  wrote:
>>
>>> Chuck,
>>>
>>> Thank you for your response and thank you for the board looking into the
>>> matter.  Yes an ultimatum is an extreme position but I didn't start this,
>>> Ubiquiti did.
>>>
>>> This is an extremely serious matter for all the members so i decided to
>>> scream loudly and publicly, i'm not a politician, just a business owner
>>> that sees our industry under attack.  We are a *service provider
>>> association*, not a *vendor association* and we are nice enough to let
>>> vendors into our group and give them access to our members.  I know they
>>> also supply some much needed funding for WISPA, but it's a two way street
>>> and the association should be *EXTREMELY concerned when a vendor sues
>>> it's own customer*.  Yes it will be tried in a court of law but that
>>> doesn't mean WISPA can't also take action.
>>>
>>> I'm not trying to cause a division, ubiquiti is at fault for that.  I'm
>>> just raising alarm bells that they are attacking us, their customers.
>>>
>>> I look forward to the board's response.
>>>
>>> On Wed, Aug 15, 2018 at 10:44 AM, Chuck Hogg <
>>> ch...@allpointsbroadband.com> wrote:
>>>
 Sean,



 When I joined WISPA, it was for many of the same reasons you joined. I
 loved the community, wanted to be a part of it, and wanted to ensure that
 everyone in the WISP industry is given a fair shake.



 I appreciate you raising this issue, although I wish you would have
 called me or another WISPA board member before giving WISPA an ultimatum on
 the members’ listserv. I’m concerned that your approach stokes division and
 argument, rather than unity.



 Like you, I'm sad that these WISPA members have been unable to work out
 the issues between them and have resorted to duking it out in court. I hate
 to see little guys get caught up in this mess. But as others have said, we
 have no idea at this time whether the allegations are true or false.
 They're just allegations at this point.



 Nonetheless, these are serious issues, and you've asked the board to
 act. We will of course consider your request, meaning we will gather what
 information we can and determine whether and when we can make an informed
 and meaningful decision.



 Please feel free to reach out to us directly as this case continues to
 unfold.


 Regards,

 Chuck




 On Tue, Aug 14, 2018 at 2:46 PM Sean Heskett  wrote:

> An Open Letter to WISPA, the Board of Directors and all WISPA members.
>
> Our industry and indeed WISPA itself if founded on the bedrock of
> helping one another to further our industry and our businesses.  This 
> group
> is a dedicated, committed group of IT cowboys that try their hardest to 
> get
> things done and move forward.  When one of our members suffers or has
> difficulty, we are all there to stand with them and provide whatever help
> necessary.  When disaster strikes we jump in and help as in the case of
> several hurricanes and bad storms over the years.  We also actively strive
> to help each other solve difficult problems whether it be configuring a
> server, securing financing, finding the best hardware solution to solve a
> problem or any other myriad of issues our businesses face the members of
> WISPA are there to help!

Re: [AFMUG] [WISPA Members] Dear WISPA...

[Seth Mattinen]

On 8/15/18 04:26, Jeremy wrote:
This issue is pretty cut and dry, and UBNT are well within their rights 
on this, and will almost certainly prevail in this lawsuit.



Everyone should hope they don't prevail. There's a lot more to lose if 
such a precedent is established as to who really owns your hardware. 
Also see John Deere trying to do the same thing to farmers.


--
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] Low Temperature AC

[Jason McKemie]

You could just connect a draft beer cooling system to a radiator with a
fan. I'm partially joking, but only partially.

On Wednesday, August 15, 2018, Seth Mattinen  wrote:

> On 8/15/18 09:59, Nate Burke wrote:
>
>> Unfortunately I don't have a good way to get outdoor ducts to the
>> location.  The Building HVAC has this setup, but when it's cold, they don't
>> pull in outdoor air so it just recycles the already hot indoor air.  That's
>> why I need extra cooling.  The Building HVAC mostly handles it fine over
>> the summer, but in the winter is when I have heat problems.
>>
>
>
> Closed glycol loop with heat exchangers. But that stuff is usually seen as
> "premium" and could cost more than a mini split.
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] Dear WISPA...

[Jason McKemie]

I'd agree with most of this, however I do think their decision to go after
a WISP was a mistake.

On Wednesday, August 15, 2018, Jeremy  wrote:

> Read the licensing agreement on both provider's radios.  You will find
> that UBNT we're well within their right to sue, and I am honestly surprised
> that it did not happen sooner.  The attitude of 'I own it, and can do what
> I want with it', doesn't hold up according to both of their licensing
> agreements.
>
> You may recall when vendors and customers were changing a couple of
> hexadecimal digits in order to turn Canopy SMs into APs.  As I recall, this
> went on for a long time, and only stopped because Cambium sent their
> lawyers after everyone involved.
>
> This issue is pretty cut and dry, and UBNT are well within their rights on
> this, and will almost certainly prevail in this lawsuit.
>
> On Wed, Aug 15, 2018, 5:34 PM Sean Heskett  wrote:
>
>> Chuck,
>>
>> Thank you for your response and thank you for the board looking into the
>> matter.  Yes an ultimatum is an extreme position but I didn't start this,
>> Ubiquiti did.
>>
>> This is an extremely serious matter for all the members so i decided to
>> scream loudly and publicly, i'm not a politician, just a business owner
>> that sees our industry under attack.  We are a *service provider
>> association*, not a *vendor association* and we are nice enough to let
>> vendors into our group and give them access to our members.  I know they
>> also supply some much needed funding for WISPA, but it's a two way street
>> and the association should be *EXTREMELY concerned when a vendor sues
>> it's own customer*.  Yes it will be tried in a court of law but that
>> doesn't mean WISPA can't also take action.
>>
>> I'm not trying to cause a division, ubiquiti is at fault for that.  I'm
>> just raising alarm bells that they are attacking us, their customers.
>>
>> I look forward to the board's response.
>>
>> On Wed, Aug 15, 2018 at 10:44 AM, Chuck Hogg <
>> ch...@allpointsbroadband.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Sean,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> When I joined WISPA, it was for many of the same reasons you joined. I
>>> loved the community, wanted to be a part of it, and wanted to ensure that
>>> everyone in the WISP industry is given a fair shake.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I appreciate you raising this issue, although I wish you would have
>>> called me or another WISPA board member before giving WISPA an ultimatum on
>>> the members’ listserv. I’m concerned that your approach stokes division and
>>> argument, rather than unity.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Like you, I'm sad that these WISPA members have been unable to work out
>>> the issues between them and have resorted to duking it out in court. I hate
>>> to see little guys get caught up in this mess. But as others have said, we
>>> have no idea at this time whether the allegations are true or false.
>>> They're just allegations at this point.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Nonetheless, these are serious issues, and you've asked the board to
>>> act. We will of course consider your request, meaning we will gather what
>>> information we can and determine whether and when we can make an informed
>>> and meaningful decision.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Please feel free to reach out to us directly as this case continues to
>>> unfold.
>>>
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>>
>>> Chuck
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, Aug 14, 2018 at 2:46 PM Sean Heskett  wrote:
>>>
 An Open Letter to WISPA, the Board of Directors and all WISPA members.

 Our industry and indeed WISPA itself if founded on the bedrock of
 helping one another to further our industry and our businesses.  This group
 is a dedicated, committed group of IT cowboys that try their hardest to get
 things done and move forward.  When one of our members suffers or has
 difficulty, we are all there to stand with them and provide whatever help
 necessary.  When disaster strikes we jump in and help as in the case of
 several hurricanes and bad storms over the years.  We also actively strive
 to help each other solve difficult problems whether it be configuring a
 server, securing financing, finding the best hardware solution to solve a
 problem or any other myriad of issues our businesses face the members of
 WISPA are there to help!  I joined WISPA because I felt it was a great
 thing for me and my business and I want to support WISPA anyway I can,
 however our membership is being attacked from within and I call on the
 board to take corrective action immediately and forcefully!

 Ubiquiti Networks has recently sued Cambium as well as Blip Networks (a
 fellow WISP), Winncom Technologies (a WISPA vendor), Sakid Ahmed (Cambium
 VP of engineering) and Dmitry Moiseev (project engineer at Cambium) over
 Cambiums “Elevate technology”.  I’ve attached the legal complaint so you
 can read all the details yourself.  Basically the group is accused of
 “hacking” ubiquiti equipment by loading a different operating system an

Re: [AFMUG] [WISPA Members] Dear WISPA...

[chuck]

I have another take.  This license agreement was created before the recent 
Supreme Court ruling on things like this.  I believe the new ruling lets us do 
whatever we want with the hardware.  

However if they are still using UBNT boot loaders or other software elements, 
then I would agree that the license would prevent.

I was one of those that poked Canopy memory locations.  Never got a lawyer 
call.  But I never got it to survive a reboot either.  

From: Jeremy 
Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2018 5:26 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] [WISPA Members] Dear WISPA...

Read the licensing agreement on both provider's radios.  You will find that 
UBNT we're well within their right to sue, and I am honestly surprised that it 
did not happen sooner.  The attitude of 'I own it, and can do what I want with 
it', doesn't hold up according to both of their licensing agreements.   

You may recall when vendors and customers were changing a couple of hexadecimal 
digits in order to turn Canopy SMs into APs.  As I recall, this went on for a 
long time, and only stopped because Cambium sent their lawyers after everyone 
involved. 

This issue is pretty cut and dry, and UBNT are well within their rights on 
this, and will almost certainly prevail in this lawsuit.

On Wed, Aug 15, 2018, 5:34 PM Sean Heskett  wrote:

  Chuck, 

  Thank you for your response and thank you for the board looking into the 
matter.  Yes an ultimatum is an extreme position but I didn't start this, 
Ubiquiti did.  

  This is an extremely serious matter for all the members so i decided to 
scream loudly and publicly, i'm not a politician, just a business owner that 
sees our industry under attack.  We are a service provider association, not a 
vendor association and we are nice enough to let vendors into our group and 
give them access to our members.  I know they also supply some much needed 
funding for WISPA, but it's a two way street and the association should be 
EXTREMELY concerned when a vendor sues it's own customer.  Yes it will be tried 
in a court of law but that doesn't mean WISPA can't also take action.

  I'm not trying to cause a division, ubiquiti is at fault for that.  I'm just 
raising alarm bells that they are attacking us, their customers.

  I look forward to the board's response.  

  On Wed, Aug 15, 2018 at 10:44 AM, Chuck Hogg  
wrote:

Sean,



When I joined WISPA, it was for many of the same reasons you joined. I 
loved the community, wanted to be a part of it, and wanted to ensure that 
everyone in the WISP industry is given a fair shake.



I appreciate you raising this issue, although I wish you would have called 
me or another WISPA board member before giving WISPA an ultimatum on the 
members’ listserv. I’m concerned that your approach stokes division and 
argument, rather than unity.



Like you, I'm sad that these WISPA members have been unable to work out the 
issues between them and have resorted to duking it out in court. I hate to see 
little guys get caught up in this mess. But as others have said, we have no 
idea at this time whether the allegations are true or false. They're just 
allegations at this point.



Nonetheless, these are serious issues, and you've asked the board to act. 
We will of course consider your request, meaning we will gather what 
information we can and determine whether and when we can make an informed and 
meaningful decision.



Please feel free to reach out to us directly as this case continues to 
unfold.




Regards,

Chuck








On Tue, Aug 14, 2018 at 2:46 PM Sean Heskett  wrote:

  An Open Letter to WISPA, the Board of Directors and all WISPA members. 

  Our industry and indeed WISPA itself if founded on the bedrock of helping 
one another to further our industry and our businesses.  This group is a 
dedicated, committed group of IT cowboys that try their hardest to get things 
done and move forward.  When one of our members suffers or has difficulty, we 
are all there to stand with them and provide whatever help necessary.  When 
disaster strikes we jump in and help as in the case of several hurricanes and 
bad storms over the years.  We also actively strive to help each other solve 
difficult problems whether it be configuring a server, securing financing, 
finding the best hardware solution to solve a problem or any other myriad of 
issues our businesses face the members of WISPA are there to help!  I joined 
WISPA because I felt it was a great thing for me and my business and I want to 
support WISPA anyway I can, however our membership is being attacked from 
within and I call on the board to take corrective action immediately and 
forcefully!  

  Ubiquiti Networks has recently sued Cambium as well as Blip Networks (a 
fellow WISP), Winncom Technologies (a WISPA vendor), Sakid Ahmed (Cambium VP of 
engineering) and Dmitry Moiseev (project engineer at Cambium) over Cambiums 
“Elevate technol

Re: [AFMUG] [WISPA Members] Dear WISPA...

[Jeremy]

Read the licensing agreement on both provider's radios.  You will find that
UBNT we're well within their right to sue, and I am honestly surprised that
it did not happen sooner.  The attitude of 'I own it, and can do what I
want with it', doesn't hold up according to both of their licensing
agreements.

You may recall when vendors and customers were changing a couple of
hexadecimal digits in order to turn Canopy SMs into APs.  As I recall, this
went on for a long time, and only stopped because Cambium sent their
lawyers after everyone involved.

This issue is pretty cut and dry, and UBNT are well within their rights on
this, and will almost certainly prevail in this lawsuit.

On Wed, Aug 15, 2018, 5:34 PM Sean Heskett  wrote:

> Chuck,
>
> Thank you for your response and thank you for the board looking into the
> matter.  Yes an ultimatum is an extreme position but I didn't start this,
> Ubiquiti did.
>
> This is an extremely serious matter for all the members so i decided to
> scream loudly and publicly, i'm not a politician, just a business owner
> that sees our industry under attack.  We are a *service provider
> association*, not a *vendor association* and we are nice enough to let
> vendors into our group and give them access to our members.  I know they
> also supply some much needed funding for WISPA, but it's a two way street
> and the association should be *EXTREMELY concerned when a vendor sues
> it's own customer*.  Yes it will be tried in a court of law but that
> doesn't mean WISPA can't also take action.
>
> I'm not trying to cause a division, ubiquiti is at fault for that.  I'm
> just raising alarm bells that they are attacking us, their customers.
>
> I look forward to the board's response.
>
> On Wed, Aug 15, 2018 at 10:44 AM, Chuck Hogg  > wrote:
>
>> Sean,
>>
>>
>>
>> When I joined WISPA, it was for many of the same reasons you joined. I
>> loved the community, wanted to be a part of it, and wanted to ensure that
>> everyone in the WISP industry is given a fair shake.
>>
>>
>>
>> I appreciate you raising this issue, although I wish you would have
>> called me or another WISPA board member before giving WISPA an ultimatum on
>> the members’ listserv. I’m concerned that your approach stokes division and
>> argument, rather than unity.
>>
>>
>>
>> Like you, I'm sad that these WISPA members have been unable to work out
>> the issues between them and have resorted to duking it out in court. I hate
>> to see little guys get caught up in this mess. But as others have said, we
>> have no idea at this time whether the allegations are true or false.
>> They're just allegations at this point.
>>
>>
>>
>> Nonetheless, these are serious issues, and you've asked the board to act.
>> We will of course consider your request, meaning we will gather what
>> information we can and determine whether and when we can make an informed
>> and meaningful decision.
>>
>>
>>
>> Please feel free to reach out to us directly as this case continues to
>> unfold.
>>
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Chuck
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Aug 14, 2018 at 2:46 PM Sean Heskett  wrote:
>>
>>> An Open Letter to WISPA, the Board of Directors and all WISPA members.
>>>
>>> Our industry and indeed WISPA itself if founded on the bedrock of
>>> helping one another to further our industry and our businesses.  This group
>>> is a dedicated, committed group of IT cowboys that try their hardest to get
>>> things done and move forward.  When one of our members suffers or has
>>> difficulty, we are all there to stand with them and provide whatever help
>>> necessary.  When disaster strikes we jump in and help as in the case of
>>> several hurricanes and bad storms over the years.  We also actively strive
>>> to help each other solve difficult problems whether it be configuring a
>>> server, securing financing, finding the best hardware solution to solve a
>>> problem or any other myriad of issues our businesses face the members of
>>> WISPA are there to help!  I joined WISPA because I felt it was a great
>>> thing for me and my business and I want to support WISPA anyway I can,
>>> however our membership is being attacked from within and I call on the
>>> board to take corrective action immediately and forcefully!
>>>
>>> Ubiquiti Networks has recently sued Cambium as well as Blip Networks (a
>>> fellow WISP), Winncom Technologies (a WISPA vendor), Sakid Ahmed (Cambium
>>> VP of engineering) and Dmitry Moiseev (project engineer at Cambium) over
>>> Cambiums “Elevate technology”.  I’ve attached the legal complaint so you
>>> can read all the details yourself.  Basically the group is accused of
>>> “hacking” ubiquiti equipment by loading a different operating system and
>>> user interface on Ubiquiti subscriber radios so that they interoperate with
>>> Cambium ePMP access points.  This is no different than someone loading
>>> windows on a Mac, or vise versa someone building a Hackintosh out of PC
>>> parts and loading MacOS on it.  Or more to the point someon

[AFMUG] anyone have a source for tongyu antennas

[Rory Conaway]

Rory Conaway * Triad Wireless * CEO
4226 S. 37th Street * Phoenix * AZ 85040
602-426-0542
r...@triadwireless.net
www.triadwireless.net

"Yesterdays Home Runs don't win todays games!"

-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] [WISPA Members] Dear WISPA...

[Sean Heskett]

Chuck,

Thank you for your response and thank you for the board looking into the
matter.  Yes an ultimatum is an extreme position but I didn't start this,
Ubiquiti did.

This is an extremely serious matter for all the members so i decided to
scream loudly and publicly, i'm not a politician, just a business owner
that sees our industry under attack.  We are a *service provider
association*, not a *vendor association* and we are nice enough to let
vendors into our group and give them access to our members.  I know they
also supply some much needed funding for WISPA, but it's a two way street
and the association should be *EXTREMELY concerned when a vendor sues it's
own customer*.  Yes it will be tried in a court of law but that doesn't
mean WISPA can't also take action.

I'm not trying to cause a division, ubiquiti is at fault for that.  I'm
just raising alarm bells that they are attacking us, their customers.

I look forward to the board's response.

On Wed, Aug 15, 2018 at 10:44 AM, Chuck Hogg 
wrote:

> Sean,
>
>
>
> When I joined WISPA, it was for many of the same reasons you joined. I
> loved the community, wanted to be a part of it, and wanted to ensure that
> everyone in the WISP industry is given a fair shake.
>
>
>
> I appreciate you raising this issue, although I wish you would have called
> me or another WISPA board member before giving WISPA an ultimatum on the
> members’ listserv. I’m concerned that your approach stokes division and
> argument, rather than unity.
>
>
>
> Like you, I'm sad that these WISPA members have been unable to work out
> the issues between them and have resorted to duking it out in court. I hate
> to see little guys get caught up in this mess. But as others have said, we
> have no idea at this time whether the allegations are true or false.
> They're just allegations at this point.
>
>
>
> Nonetheless, these are serious issues, and you've asked the board to act.
> We will of course consider your request, meaning we will gather what
> information we can and determine whether and when we can make an informed
> and meaningful decision.
>
>
>
> Please feel free to reach out to us directly as this case continues to
> unfold.
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Chuck
>
>
>
>
> On Tue, Aug 14, 2018 at 2:46 PM Sean Heskett  wrote:
>
>> An Open Letter to WISPA, the Board of Directors and all WISPA members.
>>
>> Our industry and indeed WISPA itself if founded on the bedrock of helping
>> one another to further our industry and our businesses.  This group is a
>> dedicated, committed group of IT cowboys that try their hardest to get
>> things done and move forward.  When one of our members suffers or has
>> difficulty, we are all there to stand with them and provide whatever help
>> necessary.  When disaster strikes we jump in and help as in the case of
>> several hurricanes and bad storms over the years.  We also actively strive
>> to help each other solve difficult problems whether it be configuring a
>> server, securing financing, finding the best hardware solution to solve a
>> problem or any other myriad of issues our businesses face the members of
>> WISPA are there to help!  I joined WISPA because I felt it was a great
>> thing for me and my business and I want to support WISPA anyway I can,
>> however our membership is being attacked from within and I call on the
>> board to take corrective action immediately and forcefully!
>>
>> Ubiquiti Networks has recently sued Cambium as well as Blip Networks (a
>> fellow WISP), Winncom Technologies (a WISPA vendor), Sakid Ahmed (Cambium
>> VP of engineering) and Dmitry Moiseev (project engineer at Cambium) over
>> Cambiums “Elevate technology”.  I’ve attached the legal complaint so you
>> can read all the details yourself.  Basically the group is accused of
>> “hacking” ubiquiti equipment by loading a different operating system and
>> user interface on Ubiquiti subscriber radios so that they interoperate with
>> Cambium ePMP access points.  This is no different than someone loading
>> windows on a Mac, or vise versa someone building a Hackintosh out of PC
>> parts and loading MacOS on it.  Or more to the point someone loading
>> DD-WART on a linksys WiFi router.  However, regardless of the merits of the
>> complaint, what Ubiquiti is doing is a clear violation of everything that
>> WISPA stands for!
>>
>> I’ve also attached the WISPA mission statement, Goals, Code of ethics,
>> and Article 8 of the By Laws.  Ubiquiti is in clear violation of all these
>> sections and *I hear by call on the board to terminate Ubiquiti’s
>> membership in WISPA.  A HOUSE DIVIDED CANNOT STAND!*  We must get rid of
>> any bad actors amongst us so that we can continue to accomplish everything
>> WISPA stands for.
>>
>> *IT IS EXTREMELY UNNERVING TO SEE UBIQUITI SUE ONE OF OUR FELLOW WISPS.*
>>  What kind of business actively sues it's own customers?  Who will be
>> next?  Our businesses are too small to be forced to defend ourselves from
>> this bad actor in our organizatio

Re: [AFMUG] Low Temperature AC

[Seth Mattinen]

On 8/15/18 09:59, Nate Burke wrote:
Unfortunately I don't have a good way to get outdoor ducts to the 
location.  The Building HVAC has this setup, but when it's cold, they 
don't pull in outdoor air so it just recycles the already hot indoor 
air.  That's why I need extra cooling.  The Building HVAC mostly handles 
it fine over the summer, but in the winter is when I have heat problems.



Closed glycol loop with heat exchangers. But that stuff is usually seen 
as "premium" and could cost more than a mini split.


--
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] GPS Sync loss on multiple sources at one tower

[Sean Heskett]

GPS is at 1575.42 MHz and 1227.60 MHz
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GPS_signals

if it started after a storm the someone's transmitter might have been hit
and is now causing interference, or there could be water in some cables.

-sean



On Tue, Aug 14, 2018 at 11:41 AM, Justin Marshal  wrote:

> Hi,
>
>
>
> Losing sync on multiple sync sources at one tower (packet flux syncbox and
> epmp gps pucks).  Sometimes 8-12 hours at a time.  This started occurring
> during a really bad storm (but that was more than 4 days ago) and the issue
> still persists.
>
> Could this possibly be some type of interference and what frequency would
> I be looking for?
>
>
>
> Thanks
>
> Justin
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
>
-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] Low Temperature AC

[Nate Burke]

Unfortunately I don't have a good way to get outdoor ducts to the 
location.  The Building HVAC has this setup, but when it's cold, they 
don't pull in outdoor air so it just recycles the already hot indoor 
air.  That's why I need extra cooling.  The Building HVAC mostly handles 
it fine over the summer, but in the winter is when I have heat problems.


On 8/15/2018 11:39 AM, Dave wrote:
What about doing something to the outside ducts to allow outside air 
below 40deg to be pulled to inside for cooling and
not use compressor at all. We have this setup for our data room and 
saves tons on power consumption.




On 08/15/2018 10:14 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:

Ah, yes, that’s it, crankcase heater.  I was close.
*From:* Aeron Wireless
*Sent:* Wednesday, August 15, 2018 9:10 AM
*To:* af@af.afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Low Temperature AC
I've seen two different kits. One, more common in refrigeration, is a 
crank case heater to keep the oil fluid. The other (more common in 
HVAC) controls (reduces) the condenser's fan speed to prevent it from 
(literally) freezing up.

On Wed, Aug 15, 2018 at 11:07 AM  wrote:

I don't know what is different but I have been faced with the
same thing.
It seemed to me that it had something to do with the compressor
starting
when super cold.
Perhaps different oil in it or something.

-Original Message-
From: Nate Burke
Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2018 8:56 AM
To: Animal Farm
Subject: [AFMUG] Low Temperature AC

I'm looking to get a Mini Ductless Split system to put in a small
server
closet.  Over the winter our outdoor temps get down to the -10 to
-20F
range but heat is still generated in the middle of the building.
Looking at the Mitsubishi 'P' Series "Mr Slim"  Lots of data
sheets talk
about the 'Ultra low ambient cooling option'  Where the outdoor unit
will work down to -40F.  But I have not been able to find a
single thing
that says what the 'Ultra Low ambient cooling option' actually is, or
any part numbers for it.

The product catalog has a page dedicated to 'Low Ambient Cooling
System'
that operate to 0F and 'Ultra Low Ambient Cooling Systems' that
operate
down to -40F.  But again, no part numbers are listed.
http://www.mitsubishieng.ca/en/hvac/p-series/operation.html Lists
a -40f
Option.

https://www.mitsubishipro.com/products/p-series/outdoor/single-zone-cooling-only
Lists a -20F option.

Has anyone had experience with these?  It seems like it's more
than just
a wind baffle on the compressor, there are extra line heaters and
filters that are needed?  My Normal HVAC Guys are used to working
residential/small business, so the need for cooling over the
winter is
hard for them to understand.  Other HVAC guys that I've found
that know
about the P-Series only know that the spec sheet says cold weather
operation, but nothing beyond that.

Any Tips or different systems to look at?

Nate

-- 
AF mailing list

AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com


-- 
AF mailing list

AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com


--
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com




--




-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] [WISPA Members] Dear WISPA...

[Chuck Hogg]

Sean,



When I joined WISPA, it was for many of the same reasons you joined. I
loved the community, wanted to be a part of it, and wanted to ensure that
everyone in the WISP industry is given a fair shake.



I appreciate you raising this issue, although I wish you would have called
me or another WISPA board member before giving WISPA an ultimatum on the
members’ listserv. I’m concerned that your approach stokes division and
argument, rather than unity.



Like you, I'm sad that these WISPA members have been unable to work out the
issues between them and have resorted to duking it out in court. I hate to
see little guys get caught up in this mess. But as others have said, we
have no idea at this time whether the allegations are true or false.
They're just allegations at this point.



Nonetheless, these are serious issues, and you've asked the board to act.
We will of course consider your request, meaning we will gather what
information we can and determine whether and when we can make an informed
and meaningful decision.



Please feel free to reach out to us directly as this case continues to
unfold.


Regards,

Chuck




On Tue, Aug 14, 2018 at 2:46 PM Sean Heskett  wrote:

> An Open Letter to WISPA, the Board of Directors and all WISPA members.
>
> Our industry and indeed WISPA itself if founded on the bedrock of helping
> one another to further our industry and our businesses.  This group is a
> dedicated, committed group of IT cowboys that try their hardest to get
> things done and move forward.  When one of our members suffers or has
> difficulty, we are all there to stand with them and provide whatever help
> necessary.  When disaster strikes we jump in and help as in the case of
> several hurricanes and bad storms over the years.  We also actively strive
> to help each other solve difficult problems whether it be configuring a
> server, securing financing, finding the best hardware solution to solve a
> problem or any other myriad of issues our businesses face the members of
> WISPA are there to help!  I joined WISPA because I felt it was a great
> thing for me and my business and I want to support WISPA anyway I can,
> however our membership is being attacked from within and I call on the
> board to take corrective action immediately and forcefully!
>
> Ubiquiti Networks has recently sued Cambium as well as Blip Networks (a
> fellow WISP), Winncom Technologies (a WISPA vendor), Sakid Ahmed (Cambium
> VP of engineering) and Dmitry Moiseev (project engineer at Cambium) over
> Cambiums “Elevate technology”.  I’ve attached the legal complaint so you
> can read all the details yourself.  Basically the group is accused of
> “hacking” ubiquiti equipment by loading a different operating system and
> user interface on Ubiquiti subscriber radios so that they interoperate with
> Cambium ePMP access points.  This is no different than someone loading
> windows on a Mac, or vise versa someone building a Hackintosh out of PC
> parts and loading MacOS on it.  Or more to the point someone loading
> DD-WART on a linksys WiFi router.  However, regardless of the merits of the
> complaint, what Ubiquiti is doing is a clear violation of everything that
> WISPA stands for!
>
> I’ve also attached the WISPA mission statement, Goals, Code of ethics, and
> Article 8 of the By Laws.  Ubiquiti is in clear violation of all these
> sections and *I hear by call on the board to terminate Ubiquiti’s
> membership in WISPA.  A HOUSE DIVIDED CANNOT STAND!*  We must get rid of
> any bad actors amongst us so that we can continue to accomplish everything
> WISPA stands for.
>
> *IT IS EXTREMELY UNNERVING TO SEE UBIQUITI SUE ONE OF OUR FELLOW WISPS.*
>  What kind of business actively sues it's own customers?  Who will be
> next?  Our businesses are too small to be forced to defend ourselves from
> this bad actor in our organization.  I fear that any one of us could be
> next on the chopping block and i’ve invested way too much time, energy,
> sweat blood and tears to see my business or a fellow WISP attached by a
> wall street company with deep pockets that can sue us out of existence.
>
> I hope the rest of the membership will join in signing this letter and
> that the board will remove Ubiquiti from our organization and send a
> message that we will not put up with this kind of business ethics.  If the
> board is unwilling to remove Ubiquiti then I will be forced to remove
> myself and my company from WISPA because this is not what we stand for.
>
>
> VERY DISGUSTED,
>
> Sean Heskett
>
> ZIRKEL Wireless
> High-Speed Internet for NW Colorado
> 970-871-8500 x100 - Office
> 970-846-8065 - mobile
>
>
>
> ***
>
> MISSION AND GOALS
> http://www.wispa.org/About-Us/Mission-and-Goals
>
> MISSION STATEMENT:
>
> WISPA works to promote the development, advancement and unification of the
> wireless Internet service provider industry.
>
> WISPA GOAL

Re: [AFMUG] Low Temperature AC

[Dave]

What about doing something to the outside ducts to allow outside air 
below 40deg to be pulled to inside for cooling and
not use compressor at all. We have this setup for our data room and 
saves tons on power consumption.




On 08/15/2018 10:14 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:

Ah, yes, that’s it, crankcase heater.  I was close.
*From:* Aeron Wireless
*Sent:* Wednesday, August 15, 2018 9:10 AM
*To:* af@af.afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Low Temperature AC
I've seen two different kits. One, more common in refrigeration, is a 
crank case heater to keep the oil fluid. The other (more common in 
HVAC) controls (reduces) the condenser's fan speed to prevent it from 
(literally) freezing up.

On Wed, Aug 15, 2018 at 11:07 AM  wrote:

I don't know what is different but I have been faced with the same
thing.
It seemed to me that it had something to do with the compressor
starting
when super cold.
Perhaps different oil in it or something.

-Original Message-
From: Nate Burke
Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2018 8:56 AM
To: Animal Farm
Subject: [AFMUG] Low Temperature AC

I'm looking to get a Mini Ductless Split system to put in a small
server
closet.  Over the winter our outdoor temps get down to the -10 to -20F
range but heat is still generated in the middle of the building.
Looking at the Mitsubishi 'P' Series "Mr Slim"  Lots of data
sheets talk
about the 'Ultra low ambient cooling option'  Where the outdoor unit
will work down to -40F.  But I have not been able to find a single
thing
that says what the 'Ultra Low ambient cooling option' actually is, or
any part numbers for it.

The product catalog has a page dedicated to 'Low Ambient Cooling
System'
that operate to 0F and 'Ultra Low Ambient Cooling Systems' that
operate
down to -40F.  But again, no part numbers are listed.
http://www.mitsubishieng.ca/en/hvac/p-series/operation.html Lists
a -40f
Option.

https://www.mitsubishipro.com/products/p-series/outdoor/single-zone-cooling-only
Lists a -20F option.

Has anyone had experience with these?  It seems like it's more
than just
a wind baffle on the compressor, there are extra line heaters and
filters that are needed?  My Normal HVAC Guys are used to working
residential/small business, so the need for cooling over the winter is
hard for them to understand.  Other HVAC guys that I've found that
know
about the P-Series only know that the spec sheet says cold weather
operation, but nothing beyond that.

Any Tips or different systems to look at?

Nate

-- 
AF mailing list

AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com


-- 
AF mailing list

AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com


--
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com




--
-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] Low Temperature AC

[Aeron Wireless]

You are going to have to order it from a dealer. Order low ambient temp
with the wind baffles.

Another suggestion is to look at an air-to-air exchanger to trade out warm
air in the cooler weather. Then A/C isn't needed in really cold weather.

On Wed, Aug 15, 2018 at 11:46 AM Nate Burke  wrote:

> Any ideas how to find the magical part numbers?  I have come up completely
> empty so far other than the sheets that say 'kit needed'  with no other
> explanation.
>
> On 8/15/2018 10:31 AM, Aeron Wireless wrote:
>
> It will be from the manufacturer. It needs to be sized correctly. To much
> and it wastes energy, too little and it doesn't heat the oil. Mitsubishi
> makes their own components, unlike a no-name brand.
>
>
> On Wed, Aug 15, 2018 at 11:25 AM Nate Burke  wrote:
>
>> So they're added a s a 3rd party option, or from the manufacturer?
>>
>> On 8/15/2018 10:14 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
>>
>> Ah, yes, that’s it, crankcase heater.  I was close.
>>
>> *From:* Aeron Wireless
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, August 15, 2018 9:10 AM
>> *To:* af@af.afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Low Temperature AC
>>
>> I've seen two different kits. One, more common in refrigeration, is a
>> crank case heater to keep the oil fluid. The other (more common in HVAC)
>> controls (reduces) the condenser's fan speed to prevent it from (literally)
>> freezing up.
>>
>> On Wed, Aug 15, 2018 at 11:07 AM  wrote:
>>
>>> I don't know what is different but I have been faced with the same thing.
>>> It seemed to me that it had something to do with the compressor starting
>>> when super cold.
>>> Perhaps different oil in it or something.
>>>
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: Nate Burke
>>> Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2018 8:56 AM
>>> To: Animal Farm
>>> Subject: [AFMUG] Low Temperature AC
>>>
>>> I'm looking to get a Mini Ductless Split system to put in a small server
>>> closet.  Over the winter our outdoor temps get down to the -10 to -20F
>>> range but heat is still generated in the middle of the building.
>>> Looking at the Mitsubishi 'P' Series "Mr Slim"  Lots of data sheets talk
>>> about the 'Ultra low ambient cooling option'  Where the outdoor unit
>>> will work down to -40F.  But I have not been able to find a single thing
>>> that says what the 'Ultra Low ambient cooling option' actually is, or
>>> any part numbers for it.
>>>
>>> The product catalog has a page dedicated to 'Low Ambient Cooling System'
>>> that operate to 0F and 'Ultra Low Ambient Cooling Systems' that operate
>>> down to -40F.  But again, no part numbers are listed.
>>> http://www.mitsubishieng.ca/en/hvac/p-series/operation.html Lists a -40f
>>> Option.
>>>
>>> https://www.mitsubishipro.com/products/p-series/outdoor/single-zone-cooling-only
>>> Lists a -20F option.
>>>
>>> Has anyone had experience with these?  It seems like it's more than just
>>> a wind baffle on the compressor, there are extra line heaters and
>>> filters that are needed?  My Normal HVAC Guys are used to working
>>> residential/small business, so the need for cooling over the winter is
>>> hard for them to understand.  Other HVAC guys that I've found that know
>>> about the P-Series only know that the spec sheet says cold weather
>>> operation, but nothing beyond that.
>>>
>>> Any Tips or different systems to look at?
>>>
>>> Nate
>>>
>>> --
>>> AF mailing list
>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> AF mailing list
>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>>
>>> --
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
>
>
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] Cambium Backups

[Mike Hammett]

I don't know if 650 and 820 are yet in Unimus, but that's what you should use 
for all configuration management. 

If they aren't yet in Unimus, I can get them in Unimus for the next release, 
pending telnet or SSH access to the device and that the device can dump its 
configuration there. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Sam Morris"  
To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group"  
Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2018 11:17:30 AM 
Subject: [AFMUG] Cambium Backups 

If you guys using Cambium 650 and 820 PtP units, do you perform any sort 
of automated backups of their configurations? If so, how do you go about 
that? 

Thanks, 
Sam 

-- 
AF mailing list 
AF@af.afmug.com 
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com 

-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

[AFMUG] Cambium Backups

[Sam Morris]

If you guys using Cambium 650 and 820 PtP units, do you perform any sort 
of automated backups of their configurations? If so, how do you go about 
that?


Thanks,
Sam

--
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] Low Temperature AC

[Nate Burke]

Any ideas how to find the magical part numbers?  I have come up 
completely empty so far other than the sheets that say 'kit needed' with 
no other explanation.


On 8/15/2018 10:31 AM, Aeron Wireless wrote:
It will be from the manufacturer. It needs to be sized correctly. To 
much and it wastes energy, too little and it doesn't heat the oil. 
Mitsubishi makes their own components, unlike a no-name brand.



On Wed, Aug 15, 2018 at 11:25 AM Nate Burke > wrote:


So they're added a s a 3rd party option, or from the manufacturer?

On 8/15/2018 10:14 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com  wrote:

Ah, yes, that’s it, crankcase heater.  I was close.
*From:* Aeron Wireless
*Sent:* Wednesday, August 15, 2018 9:10 AM
*To:* af@af.afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Low Temperature AC
I've seen two different kits. One, more common in refrigeration,
is a crank case heater to keep the oil fluid. The other (more
common in HVAC) controls (reduces) the condenser's fan speed to
prevent it from (literally) freezing up.
On Wed, Aug 15, 2018 at 11:07 AM mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com>> wrote:

I don't know what is different but I have been faced with the
same thing.
It seemed to me that it had something to do with the
compressor starting
when super cold.
Perhaps different oil in it or something.

-Original Message-
From: Nate Burke
Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2018 8:56 AM
To: Animal Farm
Subject: [AFMUG] Low Temperature AC

I'm looking to get a Mini Ductless Split system to put in a
small server
closet.  Over the winter our outdoor temps get down to the
-10 to -20F
range but heat is still generated in the middle of the building.
Looking at the Mitsubishi 'P' Series "Mr Slim" Lots of data
sheets talk
about the 'Ultra low ambient cooling option' Where the
outdoor unit
will work down to -40F.  But I have not been able to find a
single thing
that says what the 'Ultra Low ambient cooling option'
actually is, or
any part numbers for it.

The product catalog has a page dedicated to 'Low Ambient
Cooling System'
that operate to 0F and 'Ultra Low Ambient Cooling Systems'
that operate
down to -40F.  But again, no part numbers are listed.
http://www.mitsubishieng.ca/en/hvac/p-series/operation.html
Lists a -40f
Option.

https://www.mitsubishipro.com/products/p-series/outdoor/single-zone-cooling-only
Lists a -20F option.

Has anyone had experience with these?  It seems like it's
more than just
a wind baffle on the compressor, there are extra line heaters and
filters that are needed?  My Normal HVAC Guys are used to working
residential/small business, so the need for cooling over the
winter is
hard for them to understand.  Other HVAC guys that I've found
that know
about the P-Series only know that the spec sheet says cold
weather
operation, but nothing beyond that.

Any Tips or different systems to look at?

Nate

-- 
AF mailing list

AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com


-- 
AF mailing list

AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com


-- 
AF mailing list

AF@af.afmug.com 
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com




-- 
AF mailing list

AF@af.afmug.com 
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com





-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] Low Temperature AC

[Aeron Wireless]

It will be from the manufacturer. It needs to be sized correctly. To much
and it wastes energy, too little and it doesn't heat the oil. Mitsubishi
makes their own components, unlike a no-name brand.


On Wed, Aug 15, 2018 at 11:25 AM Nate Burke  wrote:

> So they're added a s a 3rd party option, or from the manufacturer?
>
> On 8/15/2018 10:14 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
>
> Ah, yes, that’s it, crankcase heater.  I was close.
>
> *From:* Aeron Wireless
> *Sent:* Wednesday, August 15, 2018 9:10 AM
> *To:* af@af.afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Low Temperature AC
>
> I've seen two different kits. One, more common in refrigeration, is a
> crank case heater to keep the oil fluid. The other (more common in HVAC)
> controls (reduces) the condenser's fan speed to prevent it from (literally)
> freezing up.
>
> On Wed, Aug 15, 2018 at 11:07 AM  wrote:
>
>> I don't know what is different but I have been faced with the same thing.
>> It seemed to me that it had something to do with the compressor starting
>> when super cold.
>> Perhaps different oil in it or something.
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: Nate Burke
>> Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2018 8:56 AM
>> To: Animal Farm
>> Subject: [AFMUG] Low Temperature AC
>>
>> I'm looking to get a Mini Ductless Split system to put in a small server
>> closet.  Over the winter our outdoor temps get down to the -10 to -20F
>> range but heat is still generated in the middle of the building.
>> Looking at the Mitsubishi 'P' Series "Mr Slim"  Lots of data sheets talk
>> about the 'Ultra low ambient cooling option'  Where the outdoor unit
>> will work down to -40F.  But I have not been able to find a single thing
>> that says what the 'Ultra Low ambient cooling option' actually is, or
>> any part numbers for it.
>>
>> The product catalog has a page dedicated to 'Low Ambient Cooling System'
>> that operate to 0F and 'Ultra Low Ambient Cooling Systems' that operate
>> down to -40F.  But again, no part numbers are listed.
>> http://www.mitsubishieng.ca/en/hvac/p-series/operation.html Lists a -40f
>> Option.
>>
>> https://www.mitsubishipro.com/products/p-series/outdoor/single-zone-cooling-only
>> Lists a -20F option.
>>
>> Has anyone had experience with these?  It seems like it's more than just
>> a wind baffle on the compressor, there are extra line heaters and
>> filters that are needed?  My Normal HVAC Guys are used to working
>> residential/small business, so the need for cooling over the winter is
>> hard for them to understand.  Other HVAC guys that I've found that know
>> about the P-Series only know that the spec sheet says cold weather
>> operation, but nothing beyond that.
>>
>> Any Tips or different systems to look at?
>>
>> Nate
>>
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
>>
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
>> --
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
>
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

[AFMUG] T-Shirts

[Mike Hammett]

Tired of your vendors not listening? Be passive-aggressive at conferences! 




https://teespring.com/stores/mikes-store-24 



- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] Low Temperature AC

[Nate Burke]

So they're added a s a 3rd party option, or from the manufacturer?

On 8/15/2018 10:14 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:

Ah, yes, that’s it, crankcase heater.  I was close.
*From:* Aeron Wireless
*Sent:* Wednesday, August 15, 2018 9:10 AM
*To:* af@af.afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Low Temperature AC
I've seen two different kits. One, more common in refrigeration, is a 
crank case heater to keep the oil fluid. The other (more common in 
HVAC) controls (reduces) the condenser's fan speed to prevent it from 
(literally) freezing up.

On Wed, Aug 15, 2018 at 11:07 AM  wrote:

I don't know what is different but I have been faced with the same
thing.
It seemed to me that it had something to do with the compressor
starting
when super cold.
Perhaps different oil in it or something.

-Original Message-
From: Nate Burke
Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2018 8:56 AM
To: Animal Farm
Subject: [AFMUG] Low Temperature AC

I'm looking to get a Mini Ductless Split system to put in a small
server
closet.  Over the winter our outdoor temps get down to the -10 to -20F
range but heat is still generated in the middle of the building.
Looking at the Mitsubishi 'P' Series "Mr Slim"  Lots of data
sheets talk
about the 'Ultra low ambient cooling option'  Where the outdoor unit
will work down to -40F.  But I have not been able to find a single
thing
that says what the 'Ultra Low ambient cooling option' actually is, or
any part numbers for it.

The product catalog has a page dedicated to 'Low Ambient Cooling
System'
that operate to 0F and 'Ultra Low Ambient Cooling Systems' that
operate
down to -40F.  But again, no part numbers are listed.
http://www.mitsubishieng.ca/en/hvac/p-series/operation.html Lists
a -40f
Option.

https://www.mitsubishipro.com/products/p-series/outdoor/single-zone-cooling-only
Lists a -20F option.

Has anyone had experience with these?  It seems like it's more
than just
a wind baffle on the compressor, there are extra line heaters and
filters that are needed?  My Normal HVAC Guys are used to working
residential/small business, so the need for cooling over the winter is
hard for them to understand.  Other HVAC guys that I've found that
know
about the P-Series only know that the spec sheet says cold weather
operation, but nothing beyond that.

Any Tips or different systems to look at?

Nate

-- 
AF mailing list

AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com


-- 
AF mailing list

AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com


--
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com




-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] Low Temperature AC

[chuck]

Ah, yes, that’s it, crankcase heater.  I was close.  

From: Aeron Wireless 
Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2018 9:10 AM
To: af@af.afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Low Temperature AC

I've seen two different kits. One, more common in refrigeration, is a crank 
case heater to keep the oil fluid. The other (more common in HVAC) controls 
(reduces) the condenser's fan speed to prevent it from (literally) freezing up.

On Wed, Aug 15, 2018 at 11:07 AM  wrote:

  I don't know what is different but I have been faced with the same thing.
  It seemed to me that it had something to do with the compressor starting 
  when super cold.
  Perhaps different oil in it or something.

  -Original Message- 
  From: Nate Burke
  Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2018 8:56 AM
  To: Animal Farm
  Subject: [AFMUG] Low Temperature AC

  I'm looking to get a Mini Ductless Split system to put in a small server
  closet.  Over the winter our outdoor temps get down to the -10 to -20F
  range but heat is still generated in the middle of the building.
  Looking at the Mitsubishi 'P' Series "Mr Slim"  Lots of data sheets talk
  about the 'Ultra low ambient cooling option'  Where the outdoor unit
  will work down to -40F.  But I have not been able to find a single thing
  that says what the 'Ultra Low ambient cooling option' actually is, or
  any part numbers for it.

  The product catalog has a page dedicated to 'Low Ambient Cooling System'
  that operate to 0F and 'Ultra Low Ambient Cooling Systems' that operate
  down to -40F.  But again, no part numbers are listed.
  http://www.mitsubishieng.ca/en/hvac/p-series/operation.html Lists a -40f
  Option.
  
https://www.mitsubishipro.com/products/p-series/outdoor/single-zone-cooling-only
  Lists a -20F option.

  Has anyone had experience with these?  It seems like it's more than just
  a wind baffle on the compressor, there are extra line heaters and
  filters that are needed?  My Normal HVAC Guys are used to working
  residential/small business, so the need for cooling over the winter is
  hard for them to understand.  Other HVAC guys that I've found that know
  about the P-Series only know that the spec sheet says cold weather
  operation, but nothing beyond that.

  Any Tips or different systems to look at?

  Nate

  -- 
  AF mailing list
  AF@af.afmug.com
  http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com 


  -- 
  AF mailing list
  AF@af.afmug.com
  http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com





-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] Low Temperature AC

[Aeron Wireless]

I've seen two different kits. One, more common in refrigeration, is a crank
case heater to keep the oil fluid. The other (more common in HVAC) controls
(reduces) the condenser's fan speed to prevent it from (literally) freezing
up.

On Wed, Aug 15, 2018 at 11:07 AM  wrote:

> I don't know what is different but I have been faced with the same thing.
> It seemed to me that it had something to do with the compressor starting
> when super cold.
> Perhaps different oil in it or something.
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Nate Burke
> Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2018 8:56 AM
> To: Animal Farm
> Subject: [AFMUG] Low Temperature AC
>
> I'm looking to get a Mini Ductless Split system to put in a small server
> closet.  Over the winter our outdoor temps get down to the -10 to -20F
> range but heat is still generated in the middle of the building.
> Looking at the Mitsubishi 'P' Series "Mr Slim"  Lots of data sheets talk
> about the 'Ultra low ambient cooling option'  Where the outdoor unit
> will work down to -40F.  But I have not been able to find a single thing
> that says what the 'Ultra Low ambient cooling option' actually is, or
> any part numbers for it.
>
> The product catalog has a page dedicated to 'Low Ambient Cooling System'
> that operate to 0F and 'Ultra Low Ambient Cooling Systems' that operate
> down to -40F.  But again, no part numbers are listed.
> http://www.mitsubishieng.ca/en/hvac/p-series/operation.html Lists a -40f
> Option.
>
> https://www.mitsubishipro.com/products/p-series/outdoor/single-zone-cooling-only
> Lists a -20F option.
>
> Has anyone had experience with these?  It seems like it's more than just
> a wind baffle on the compressor, there are extra line heaters and
> filters that are needed?  My Normal HVAC Guys are used to working
> residential/small business, so the need for cooling over the winter is
> hard for them to understand.  Other HVAC guys that I've found that know
> about the P-Series only know that the spec sheet says cold weather
> operation, but nothing beyond that.
>
> Any Tips or different systems to look at?
>
> Nate
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
>
-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] Low Temperature AC

[chuck]

I don't know what is different but I have been faced with the same thing.
It seemed to me that it had something to do with the compressor starting 
when super cold.

Perhaps different oil in it or something.

-Original Message- 
From: Nate Burke

Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2018 8:56 AM
To: Animal Farm
Subject: [AFMUG] Low Temperature AC

I'm looking to get a Mini Ductless Split system to put in a small server
closet.  Over the winter our outdoor temps get down to the -10 to -20F
range but heat is still generated in the middle of the building.
Looking at the Mitsubishi 'P' Series "Mr Slim"  Lots of data sheets talk
about the 'Ultra low ambient cooling option'  Where the outdoor unit
will work down to -40F.  But I have not been able to find a single thing
that says what the 'Ultra Low ambient cooling option' actually is, or
any part numbers for it.

The product catalog has a page dedicated to 'Low Ambient Cooling System'
that operate to 0F and 'Ultra Low Ambient Cooling Systems' that operate
down to -40F.  But again, no part numbers are listed.
http://www.mitsubishieng.ca/en/hvac/p-series/operation.html Lists a -40f
Option.
https://www.mitsubishipro.com/products/p-series/outdoor/single-zone-cooling-only
Lists a -20F option.

Has anyone had experience with these?  It seems like it's more than just
a wind baffle on the compressor, there are extra line heaters and
filters that are needed?  My Normal HVAC Guys are used to working
residential/small business, so the need for cooling over the winter is
hard for them to understand.  Other HVAC guys that I've found that know
about the P-Series only know that the spec sheet says cold weather
operation, but nothing beyond that.

Any Tips or different systems to look at?

Nate

--
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com 



--
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

[AFMUG] Low Temperature AC

[Nate Burke]

I'm looking to get a Mini Ductless Split system to put in a small server 
closet.  Over the winter our outdoor temps get down to the -10 to -20F 
range but heat is still generated in the middle of the building.  
Looking at the Mitsubishi 'P' Series "Mr Slim"  Lots of data sheets talk 
about the 'Ultra low ambient cooling option'  Where the outdoor unit 
will work down to -40F.  But I have not been able to find a single thing 
that says what the 'Ultra Low ambient cooling option' actually is, or 
any part numbers for it.


The product catalog has a page dedicated to 'Low Ambient Cooling System' 
that operate to 0F and 'Ultra Low Ambient Cooling Systems' that operate 
down to -40F.  But again, no part numbers are listed. 
http://www.mitsubishieng.ca/en/hvac/p-series/operation.html Lists a -40f 
Option. 
https://www.mitsubishipro.com/products/p-series/outdoor/single-zone-cooling-only 
Lists a -20F option.


Has anyone had experience with these?  It seems like it's more than just 
a wind baffle on the compressor, there are extra line heaters and 
filters that are needed?  My Normal HVAC Guys are used to working 
residential/small business, so the need for cooling over the winter is 
hard for them to understand.  Other HVAC guys that I've found that know 
about the P-Series only know that the spec sheet says cold weather 
operation, but nothing beyond that.


Any Tips or different systems to look at?

Nate

--
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] Epmp puck disable

[Josh Luthman]

Me?  It's an hour away, 100 feet up, and works just fine with a 15 minute
hold over :)

The issue happens every ~23.5 hours so we figure there's something on site
destroying the noise floor in that band.


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Tue, Aug 14, 2018 at 12:15 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:

> Why not just disconnect it?
>
> *From:* Josh Luthman
> *Sent:* Tuesday, August 14, 2018 10:09 AM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Epmp puck disable
>
> I was told I couldn't do this at one site where I would like to do this.
> This was only a few weeks ago.
>
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
> On Fri, Aug 10, 2018 at 12:13 PM, Steve Jones 
> wrote:
>
>> We have been deploying new sites without the pucks so it uses the
>> internal gps and still has front back sync. Has the software come along yet
>> to disable the puck on the sites where it's already installed?
>>
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
>>
>
> --
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
>
-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com