Re: [AFMUG] Fwd: CAT5. FM. And Rain

[Matt Hoppes]

What we’ve also discovered is once the issue starts it keeps happening until we 
reboot the switch. 

Reboot AP fixes it for a very short period of time. 

Reboot Netonix and the issue either goes away longer. Or completely clears (if 
the rain has since passed). 

Next step will be swapping the Netonix out Monday for a Ubiquiti edgeswitch and 
making sure the ES is bonded to the building ground. 

> On Apr 20, 2019, at 14:39,   wrote:
> 
> Be fun to see if the problem changes when switching to a different antenna 
> and or transmission line. 
>  
> From: Matt Hoppes
> Sent: Saturday, April 20, 2019 12:28 PM
> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fwd: CAT5. FM. And Rain
>  
> I believe there is a spare antenna already connected.  I’ll have to check on 
> Monday.
> 
>> On Apr 20, 2019, at 14:22,   wrote:
>> 
>> Do they have a spare FM antenna you could connect to a temp line and perhaps 
>> pull it up the tower while on?
>>  
>> I know I am getting increasingly crazy with ideas here but just spitballing. 
>>  
>> From: Matt Hoppes
>> Sent: Saturday, April 20, 2019 12:17 PM
>> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fwd: CAT5. FM. And Rain
>>  
>> The Nautel doesn’t ramp. It’s all or nothing.
>> 
>>> On Apr 20, 2019, at 13:03, Chuck McCown  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Would you be allowed to ramp up the RF and see what levels cause what kinds 
>>> of problems?
>>>  
>>> From: Chuck McCown
>>> Sent: Saturday, April 20, 2019 10:47 AM
>>> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fwd: CAT5. FM. And Rain
>>>  
>>> Do you have perhaps a grounding issue at one end or the other?  Most 
>>> ethernet devices have phy transformers that ground directly or through a 
>>> capacitor.  Ground potential differences between one end and the other can 
>>> cause a problem like this.
>>>  
>>> If you are connected to an earth ground that changes with moisture then 
>>> perhaps a ground loop is causing problems.  This seems backwards but it may 
>>> be ground related somehow. 
>>>  
>>> Fiber
>>> Spray water
>>> Liquidtight
>>>  
>>> I hate to suggest the intermod theory as it seems a bit unlikely to have 
>>> intermod strong enough to interfere with an ethernet signal, but not too 
>>> many things left to think. 
>>>  
>>>  
>>>  
>>> From: Matt Hoppes
>>> Sent: Saturday, April 20, 2019 10:41 AM
>>> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fwd: CAT5. FM. And Rain
>>>  
>>> The issue has gotten worse over the last two years. With it be terrible 
>>> right now.
>>>  
>>> We just reran cable last month. All new cable and radios. And still having 
>>> the issue.
>>> 
 On Apr 20, 2019, at 12:03, Chuck McCown  wrote:
 
 You would have to climb it with a garden sprayer strapped to your back.
 I am more of the opinion of the corroded RJ45. 
  
 From: Matt Hoppes
 Sent: Saturday, April 20, 2019 8:42 AM
 To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
 Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fwd: CAT5. FM. And Rain
  
 Not in liquidtight.
  
 Have ground lifted and grounded. No change.
  
 Have not wet things (would be difficult - no ready source of water)
  
 Obviously RF is getting into the Ethernet, when things are wet. I’m just 
 trying to figure out why. Clearly a connection is being made somewhere it 
 shouldn’t be.
  
  
 
> On Apr 20, 2019, at 09:58, Chuck McCown  wrote:
> 
> So moisture + rf = Ethernet interference.  Just as originally stated.  No 
> standing waves.  
> Is your cat5 in liquidtight?  Have you played with grounding & 
> ungrounding the shields?  How about taking a garden sprayer and 
> selectively wetting things?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> Begin forwarded message:
> 
>> From: Matt Hoppes 
>> Date: April 20, 2019 at 7:52:12 AM MDT
>> To: Chuck McCown 
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] CAT5. FM. And Rain
>> 
>> Yes. Problem goes away. 
>> 
 On Apr 20, 2019, at 09:51, Chuck McCown  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Have you killed the ref when you are having the problem?  Might not be 
>>> ref related.
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
> On Apr 19, 2019, at 7:11 PM, Matt Hoppes 
>  wrote:
 
 19watts
 
>> On 4/19/19 8:58 PM, Chuck McCown wrote:
> What is the reflected power when you are having problems?
> Sent from my iPhone
>>> On Apr 19, 2019, at 6:41 PM, Matt Hoppes 
>>>  wrote:
>> 
>> My thoughts too. But the reflected power right now is only 19watts 
>> out of 9,000.
>> 
 On Apr 19, 2019, at 20:14, Chuck McCown  wrote:
>>> 
>>> My guess is that the FM station has a problem with the antenna or 
>>> transmission line.  Moisture throws off impedance somewhere and you 
>>> have a strong standing wave on the transmission line.  Probably a 
>>>

Re: [AFMUG] Fwd: CAT5. FM. And Rain

[Matt Hoppes]

Fair point. 

> On Apr 20, 2019, at 14:39,   wrote:
> 
> Be fun to see if the problem changes when switching to a different antenna 
> and or transmission line. 
>  
> From: Matt Hoppes
> Sent: Saturday, April 20, 2019 12:28 PM
> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fwd: CAT5. FM. And Rain
>  
> I believe there is a spare antenna already connected.  I’ll have to check on 
> Monday.
> 
>> On Apr 20, 2019, at 14:22,   wrote:
>> 
>> Do they have a spare FM antenna you could connect to a temp line and perhaps 
>> pull it up the tower while on?
>>  
>> I know I am getting increasingly crazy with ideas here but just spitballing. 
>>  
>> From: Matt Hoppes
>> Sent: Saturday, April 20, 2019 12:17 PM
>> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fwd: CAT5. FM. And Rain
>>  
>> The Nautel doesn’t ramp. It’s all or nothing.
>> 
>>> On Apr 20, 2019, at 13:03, Chuck McCown  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Would you be allowed to ramp up the RF and see what levels cause what kinds 
>>> of problems?
>>>  
>>> From: Chuck McCown
>>> Sent: Saturday, April 20, 2019 10:47 AM
>>> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fwd: CAT5. FM. And Rain
>>>  
>>> Do you have perhaps a grounding issue at one end or the other?  Most 
>>> ethernet devices have phy transformers that ground directly or through a 
>>> capacitor.  Ground potential differences between one end and the other can 
>>> cause a problem like this.
>>>  
>>> If you are connected to an earth ground that changes with moisture then 
>>> perhaps a ground loop is causing problems.  This seems backwards but it may 
>>> be ground related somehow. 
>>>  
>>> Fiber
>>> Spray water
>>> Liquidtight
>>>  
>>> I hate to suggest the intermod theory as it seems a bit unlikely to have 
>>> intermod strong enough to interfere with an ethernet signal, but not too 
>>> many things left to think. 
>>>  
>>>  
>>>  
>>> From: Matt Hoppes
>>> Sent: Saturday, April 20, 2019 10:41 AM
>>> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fwd: CAT5. FM. And Rain
>>>  
>>> The issue has gotten worse over the last two years. With it be terrible 
>>> right now.
>>>  
>>> We just reran cable last month. All new cable and radios. And still having 
>>> the issue.
>>> 
 On Apr 20, 2019, at 12:03, Chuck McCown  wrote:
 
 You would have to climb it with a garden sprayer strapped to your back.
 I am more of the opinion of the corroded RJ45. 
  
 From: Matt Hoppes
 Sent: Saturday, April 20, 2019 8:42 AM
 To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
 Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fwd: CAT5. FM. And Rain
  
 Not in liquidtight.
  
 Have ground lifted and grounded. No change.
  
 Have not wet things (would be difficult - no ready source of water)
  
 Obviously RF is getting into the Ethernet, when things are wet. I’m just 
 trying to figure out why. Clearly a connection is being made somewhere it 
 shouldn’t be.
  
  
 
> On Apr 20, 2019, at 09:58, Chuck McCown  wrote:
> 
> So moisture + rf = Ethernet interference.  Just as originally stated.  No 
> standing waves.  
> Is your cat5 in liquidtight?  Have you played with grounding & 
> ungrounding the shields?  How about taking a garden sprayer and 
> selectively wetting things?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> Begin forwarded message:
> 
>> From: Matt Hoppes 
>> Date: April 20, 2019 at 7:52:12 AM MDT
>> To: Chuck McCown 
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] CAT5. FM. And Rain
>> 
>> Yes. Problem goes away. 
>> 
 On Apr 20, 2019, at 09:51, Chuck McCown  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Have you killed the ref when you are having the problem?  Might not be 
>>> ref related.
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
> On Apr 19, 2019, at 7:11 PM, Matt Hoppes 
>  wrote:
 
 19watts
 
>> On 4/19/19 8:58 PM, Chuck McCown wrote:
> What is the reflected power when you are having problems?
> Sent from my iPhone
>>> On Apr 19, 2019, at 6:41 PM, Matt Hoppes 
>>>  wrote:
>> 
>> My thoughts too. But the reflected power right now is only 19watts 
>> out of 9,000.
>> 
 On Apr 19, 2019, at 20:14, Chuck McCown  wrote:
>>> 
>>> My guess is that the FM station has a problem with the antenna or 
>>> transmission line.  Moisture throws off impedance somewhere and you 
>>> have a strong standing wave on the transmission line.  Probably a 
>>> bad connector.
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
> On Apr 19, 2019, at 5:52 PM, Matt Hoppes 
>  wrote:
 
 Looking to the wisdom of the AF group on this.
 
 I have some equipment on an FM tower.  It’s a 9kw station around 
 150ft. We are at 250ft with two sectors and a backhaul. 

Re: [AFMUG] Fwd: CAT5. FM. And Rain

[chuck]

Be fun to see if the problem changes when switching to a different antenna and 
or transmission line.  

From: Matt Hoppes 
Sent: Saturday, April 20, 2019 12:28 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fwd: CAT5. FM. And Rain

I believe there is a spare antenna already connected.  I’ll have to check on 
Monday. 

On Apr 20, 2019, at 14:22,   wrote:


  Do they have a spare FM antenna you could connect to a temp line and perhaps 
pull it up the tower while on?

  I know I am getting increasingly crazy with ideas here but just spitballing.  

  From: Matt Hoppes 
  Sent: Saturday, April 20, 2019 12:17 PM
  To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fwd: CAT5. FM. And Rain

  The Nautel doesn’t ramp. It’s all or nothing. 

  On Apr 20, 2019, at 13:03, Chuck McCown  wrote:


Would you be allowed to ramp up the RF and see what levels cause what kinds 
of problems?

From: Chuck McCown 
Sent: Saturday, April 20, 2019 10:47 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fwd: CAT5. FM. And Rain

Do you have perhaps a grounding issue at one end or the other?  Most 
ethernet devices have phy transformers that ground directly or through a 
capacitor.  Ground potential differences between one end and the other can 
cause a problem like this.

If you are connected to an earth ground that changes with moisture then 
perhaps a ground loop is causing problems.  This seems backwards but it may be 
ground related somehow.  

Fiber
Spray water
Liquidtight

I hate to suggest the intermod theory as it seems a bit unlikely to have 
intermod strong enough to interfere with an ethernet signal, but not too many 
things left to think.  



From: Matt Hoppes 
Sent: Saturday, April 20, 2019 10:41 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fwd: CAT5. FM. And Rain

The issue has gotten worse over the last two years. With it be terrible 
right now. 

We just reran cable last month. All new cable and radios. And still having 
the issue. 

On Apr 20, 2019, at 12:03, Chuck McCown  wrote:


  You would have to climb it with a garden sprayer strapped to your back.
  I am more of the opinion of the corroded RJ45.  

  From: Matt Hoppes 
  Sent: Saturday, April 20, 2019 8:42 AM
  To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fwd: CAT5. FM. And Rain

  Not in liquidtight. 

  Have ground lifted and grounded. No change. 

  Have not wet things (would be difficult - no ready source of water)

  Obviously RF is getting into the Ethernet, when things are wet. I’m just 
trying to figure out why. Clearly a connection is being made somewhere it 
shouldn’t be. 



  On Apr 20, 2019, at 09:58, Chuck McCown  wrote:


So moisture + rf = Ethernet interference.  Just as originally stated.  
No standing waves.   
Is your cat5 in liquidtight?  Have you played with grounding & 
ungrounding the shields?  How about taking a garden sprayer and selectively 
wetting things?


Sent from my iPhone

Begin forwarded message:


  From: Matt Hoppes 
  Date: April 20, 2019 at 7:52:12 AM MDT
  To: Chuck McCown 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] CAT5. FM. And Rain


  Yes. Problem goes away. 


On Apr 20, 2019, at 09:51, Chuck McCown  wrote:



Have you killed the ref when you are having the problem?  Might not 
be ref related.



Sent from my iPhone



  On Apr 19, 2019, at 7:11 PM, Matt Hoppes 
 wrote:



  19watts



On 4/19/19 8:58 PM, Chuck McCown wrote:

What is the reflected power when you are having problems?

Sent from my iPhone

  On Apr 19, 2019, at 6:41 PM, Matt Hoppes 
 wrote:



  My thoughts too. But the reflected power right now is only 
19watts out of 9,000.



On Apr 19, 2019, at 20:14, Chuck McCown  
wrote:



My guess is that the FM station has a problem with the 
antenna or transmission line.  Moisture throws off impedance somewhere and you 
have a strong standing wave on the transmission line.  Probably a bad connector.



Sent from my iPhone



  On Apr 19, 2019, at 5:52 PM, Matt Hoppes 
 wrote:



  Looking to the wisdom of the AF group on this.



  I have some equipment on an FM tower.  It’s a 9kw station 
around 150ft. We are at 250ft with two sectors and a backhaul.  Netonix switch 
in shelter.



  Nothing else on the tower.



  Normally all is fine.   When it rains or is very moist 
out (heavy heavy fog) we start having major Ethernet negotiation issues.   The 
ports will go from 1Gig to 10F sometimes. Sometimes drop completely.



  I’ve got ferrite beads wrapped ab

Re: [AFMUG] Fwd: CAT5. FM. And Rain

[Sean Heskett]

Best bet is put all cat5 in shielded liquidtight.

Better bet is run fiber + power up to a switch and a PacketFlux rack
injector

Otherwise you will just end up chasing it all day everyday.


-Sean


On Sat, Apr 20, 2019 at 11:30 AM Matt Hoppes <
mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net> wrote:

> I believe there is a spare antenna already connected.  I’ll have to check
> on Monday.
>
> On Apr 20, 2019, at 14:22,   wrote:
>
> Do they have a spare FM antenna you could connect to a temp line and
> perhaps pull it up the tower while on?
>
> I know I am getting increasingly crazy with ideas here but just
> spitballing.
>
> *From:* Matt Hoppes
> *Sent:* Saturday, April 20, 2019 12:17 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Fwd: CAT5. FM. And Rain
>
> The Nautel doesn’t ramp. It’s all or nothing.
>
> On Apr 20, 2019, at 13:03, Chuck McCown  wrote:
>
> Would you be allowed to ramp up the RF and see what levels cause what
> kinds of problems?
>
> *From:* Chuck McCown
> *Sent:* Saturday, April 20, 2019 10:47 AM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Fwd: CAT5. FM. And Rain
>
> Do you have perhaps a grounding issue at one end or the other?  Most
> ethernet devices have phy transformers that ground directly or through a
> capacitor.  Ground potential differences between one end and the other can
> cause a problem like this.
>
> If you are connected to an earth ground that changes with moisture then
> perhaps a ground loop is causing problems.  This seems backwards but it may
> be ground related somehow.
>
> Fiber
> Spray water
> Liquidtight
>
> I hate to suggest the intermod theory as it seems a bit unlikely to have
> intermod strong enough to interfere with an ethernet signal, but not too
> many things left to think.
>
>
>
> *From:* Matt Hoppes
> *Sent:* Saturday, April 20, 2019 10:41 AM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Fwd: CAT5. FM. And Rain
>
> The issue has gotten worse over the last two years. With it be terrible
> right now.
>
> We just reran cable last month. All new cable and radios. And still having
> the issue.
>
> On Apr 20, 2019, at 12:03, Chuck McCown  wrote:
>
> You would have to climb it with a garden sprayer strapped to your back.
> I am more of the opinion of the corroded RJ45.
>
> *From:* Matt Hoppes
> *Sent:* Saturday, April 20, 2019 8:42 AM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Fwd: CAT5. FM. And Rain
>
> Not in liquidtight.
>
> Have ground lifted and grounded. No change.
>
> Have not wet things (would be difficult - no ready source of water)
>
> Obviously RF is getting into the Ethernet, when things are wet. I’m just
> trying to figure out why. Clearly a connection is being made somewhere it
> shouldn’t be.
>
>
>
> On Apr 20, 2019, at 09:58, Chuck McCown  wrote:
>
> So moisture + rf = Ethernet interference.  Just as originally stated.  No
> standing waves.
> Is your cat5 in liquidtight?  Have you played with grounding & ungrounding
> the shields?  How about taking a garden sprayer and selectively wetting
> things?
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> Begin forwarded message:
>
> *From:* Matt Hoppes 
> *Date:* April 20, 2019 at 7:52:12 AM MDT
> *To:* Chuck McCown 
> *Subject:* *Re: [AFMUG] CAT5. FM. And Rain*
>
> Yes. Problem goes away.
>
> On Apr 20, 2019, at 09:51, Chuck McCown  wrote:
>
>
> Have you killed the ref when you are having the problem?  Might not be ref
> related.
>
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>
> On Apr 19, 2019, at 7:11 PM, Matt Hoppes <
> mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net> wrote:
>
>
> 19watts
>
>
> On 4/19/19 8:58 PM, Chuck McCown wrote:
>
> What is the reflected power when you are having problems?
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Apr 19, 2019, at 6:41 PM, Matt Hoppes <
> mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net> wrote:
>
>
> My thoughts too. But the reflected power right now is only 19watts out of
> 9,000.
>
>
> On Apr 19, 2019, at 20:14, Chuck McCown  wrote:
>
>
> My guess is that the FM station has a problem with the antenna or
> transmission line.  Moisture throws off impedance somewhere and you have a
> strong standing wave on the transmission line.  Probably a bad connector.
>
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>
> On Apr 19, 2019, at 5:52 PM, Matt Hoppes <
> mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net> wrote:
>
>
> Looking to the wisdom of the AF group on this.
>
>
> I have some equipment on an FM tower.  It’s a 9kw station around 150ft. We
> are at 250ft with two sectors and a backhaul.  Netonix switch in shelter.
>
>
> Nothing else on the tower.
>
>
> Normally all is fine.   When it rains or is very moist out (heavy heavy
> fog) we start having major Ethernet negotiation issues.   The ports will go
> from 1Gig to 10F sometimes. Sometimes drop completely.
>
>
> I’ve got ferrite beads wrapped about 5 times top and bottom.
>
>
> Any further words of wisdom on what to try?  I suspect some odd grounding
> issue. But not sure how to track it down or isolate it.
>
> --
>
> AF mailing list
>
> AF@af.afmug.co

Re: [AFMUG] Fwd: CAT5. FM. And Rain

[Matt Hoppes]

I believe there is a spare antenna already connected.  I’ll have to check on 
Monday. 

> On Apr 20, 2019, at 14:22,   wrote:
> 
> Do they have a spare FM antenna you could connect to a temp line and  perhaps 
> pull it up the tower while on?
>  
> I know I am getting increasingly crazy with ideas here but just spitballing. 
>  
> From: Matt Hoppes
> Sent: Saturday, April 20, 2019 12:17 PM
> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fwd: CAT5. FM. And Rain
>  
> The Nautel doesn’t ramp. It’s all or nothing.
> 
>> On Apr 20, 2019, at 13:03, Chuck McCown  wrote:
>> 
>> Would you be allowed to ramp up the RF and see what levels cause what kinds 
>> of problems?
>>  
>> From: Chuck McCown
>> Sent: Saturday, April 20, 2019 10:47 AM
>> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fwd: CAT5. FM. And Rain
>>  
>> Do you have perhaps a grounding issue at one end or the other?  Most
>> ethernet devices have phy transformers that ground directly or through a 
>> capacitor.  Ground potential differences between one end and the other can 
>> cause a problem like this.
>>  
>> If you are connected to an earth ground that changes with moisture then 
>> perhaps a ground loop is causing problems.  This seems backwards but it may 
>> be ground related somehow. 
>>  
>> Fiber
>> Spray water
>> Liquidtight
>>  
>> I hate to suggest the intermod theory as it seems a bit unlikely to have 
>> intermod strong enough to interfere with an ethernet signal, but not too 
>> many things left to think. 
>>  
>>  
>>  
>> From: Matt Hoppes
>> Sent: Saturday, April 20, 2019 10:41 AM
>> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fwd: CAT5. FM. And Rain
>>  
>> The issue has gotten worse over the last two years. With it be terrible 
>> right now.
>>  
>> We just reran cable last month. All new cable and radios. And still having 
>> the issue.
>> 
>>> On Apr 20, 2019, at 12:03, Chuck McCown  wrote:
>>> 
>>> You would have to climb it with a garden sprayer strapped to your back.
>>> I am more of the opinion of the corroded RJ45. 
>>>  
>>> From: Matt Hoppes
>>> Sent: Saturday, April 20, 2019 8:42 AM
>>> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fwd: CAT5. FM. And Rain
>>>  
>>> Not in liquidtight.
>>>  
>>> Have ground lifted and grounded. No change.
>>>  
>>> Have not wet things (would be difficult - no ready source of water)
>>>  
>>> Obviously RF is getting into the Ethernet, when things are wet. I’m just 
>>> trying to figure out why. Clearly a connection is being made somewhere it 
>>> shouldn’t be.
>>>  
>>>  
>>> 
 On Apr 20, 2019, at 09:58, Chuck McCown  wrote:
 
 So moisture + rf = Ethernet interference.  Just as originally stated.  No 
 standing waves.  
 Is your cat5 in liquidtight?  Have you played with grounding & ungrounding 
 the shields?  How about taking a garden sprayer and selectively wetting 
 things?
 
 Sent from my iPhone
 
 Begin forwarded message:
 
> From: Matt Hoppes 
> Date: April 20, 2019 at 7:52:12 AM MDT
> To: Chuck McCown 
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] CAT5. FM. And Rain
> 
> Yes. Problem goes away. 
> 
>>> On Apr 20, 2019, at 09:51, Chuck McCown  wrote:
>> 
>> Have you killed the ref when you are having the problem?  Might not be 
>> ref related.
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
 On Apr 19, 2019, at 7:11 PM, Matt Hoppes 
  wrote:
>>> 
>>> 19watts
>>> 
> On 4/19/19 8:58 PM, Chuck McCown wrote:
 What is the reflected power when you are having problems?
 Sent from my iPhone
>> On Apr 19, 2019, at 6:41 PM, Matt Hoppes 
>>  wrote:
> 
> My thoughts too. But the reflected power right now is only 19watts 
> out of 9,000.
> 
>>> On Apr 19, 2019, at 20:14, Chuck McCown  wrote:
>> 
>> My guess is that the FM station has a problem with the antenna or 
>> transmission line.  Moisture throws off impedance somewhere and you 
>> have a strong standing wave on the transmission line.  Probably a 
>> bad connector.
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
 On Apr 19, 2019, at 5:52 PM, Matt Hoppes 
  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Looking to the wisdom of the AF group on this.
>>> 
>>> I have some equipment on an FM tower.  It’s a 9kw station around 
>>> 150ft. We are at 250ft with two sectors and a backhaul.  Netonix 
>>> switch in shelter.
>>> 
>>> Nothing else on the tower.
>>> 
>>> Normally all is fine.   When it rains or is very moist out (heavy 
>>> heavy fog) we start having major Ethernet negotiation issues.   The 
>>> ports will go from 1Gig to 10F sometimes. Sometimes drop completely.
>>> 
>>> I’ve got ferrite beads wrapped about 5 times top and bottom.
>>> 
>

Re: [AFMUG] Fwd: CAT5. FM. And Rain

[chuck]

Do they have a spare FM antenna you could connect to a temp line and perhaps 
pull it up the tower while on?

I know I am getting increasingly crazy with ideas here but just spitballing.  

From: Matt Hoppes 
Sent: Saturday, April 20, 2019 12:17 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fwd: CAT5. FM. And Rain

The Nautel doesn’t ramp. It’s all or nothing. 

On Apr 20, 2019, at 13:03, Chuck McCown  wrote:


  Would you be allowed to ramp up the RF and see what levels cause what kinds 
of problems?

  From: Chuck McCown 
  Sent: Saturday, April 20, 2019 10:47 AM
  To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fwd: CAT5. FM. And Rain

  Do you have perhaps a grounding issue at one end or the other?  Most ethernet 
devices have phy transformers that ground directly or through a capacitor.  
Ground potential differences between one end and the other can cause a problem 
like this.

  If you are connected to an earth ground that changes with moisture then 
perhaps a ground loop is causing problems.  This seems backwards but it may be 
ground related somehow.  

  Fiber
  Spray water
  Liquidtight

  I hate to suggest the intermod theory as it seems a bit unlikely to have 
intermod strong enough to interfere with an ethernet signal, but not too many 
things left to think.  



  From: Matt Hoppes 
  Sent: Saturday, April 20, 2019 10:41 AM
  To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fwd: CAT5. FM. And Rain

  The issue has gotten worse over the last two years. With it be terrible right 
now. 

  We just reran cable last month. All new cable and radios. And still having 
the issue. 

  On Apr 20, 2019, at 12:03, Chuck McCown  wrote:


You would have to climb it with a garden sprayer strapped to your back.
I am more of the opinion of the corroded RJ45.  

From: Matt Hoppes 
Sent: Saturday, April 20, 2019 8:42 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fwd: CAT5. FM. And Rain

Not in liquidtight. 

Have ground lifted and grounded. No change. 

Have not wet things (would be difficult - no ready source of water)

Obviously RF is getting into the Ethernet, when things are wet. I’m just 
trying to figure out why. Clearly a connection is being made somewhere it 
shouldn’t be. 



On Apr 20, 2019, at 09:58, Chuck McCown  wrote:


  So moisture + rf = Ethernet interference.  Just as originally stated.  No 
standing waves.   
  Is your cat5 in liquidtight?  Have you played with grounding & 
ungrounding the shields?  How about taking a garden sprayer and selectively 
wetting things?


  Sent from my iPhone

  Begin forwarded message:


From: Matt Hoppes 
Date: April 20, 2019 at 7:52:12 AM MDT
To: Chuck McCown 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] CAT5. FM. And Rain


Yes. Problem goes away. 


  On Apr 20, 2019, at 09:51, Chuck McCown  wrote:



  Have you killed the ref when you are having the problem?  Might not 
be ref related.



  Sent from my iPhone



On Apr 19, 2019, at 7:11 PM, Matt Hoppes 
 wrote:



19watts



  On 4/19/19 8:58 PM, Chuck McCown wrote:

  What is the reflected power when you are having problems?

  Sent from my iPhone

On Apr 19, 2019, at 6:41 PM, Matt Hoppes 
 wrote:



My thoughts too. But the reflected power right now is only 
19watts out of 9,000.



  On Apr 19, 2019, at 20:14, Chuck McCown  
wrote:



  My guess is that the FM station has a problem with the 
antenna or transmission line.  Moisture throws off impedance somewhere and you 
have a strong standing wave on the transmission line.  Probably a bad connector.



  Sent from my iPhone



On Apr 19, 2019, at 5:52 PM, Matt Hoppes 
 wrote:



Looking to the wisdom of the AF group on this.



I have some equipment on an FM tower.  It’s a 9kw station 
around 150ft. We are at 250ft with two sectors and a backhaul.  Netonix switch 
in shelter.



Nothing else on the tower.



Normally all is fine.   When it rains or is very moist out 
(heavy heavy fog) we start having major Ethernet negotiation issues.   The 
ports will go from 1Gig to 10F sometimes. Sometimes drop completely.



I’ve got ferrite beads wrapped about 5 times top and bottom.



Any further words of wisdom on what to try?  I suspect some 
odd grounding issue. But not sure how to track it down or isolate it.

-- 

AF mailing list

AF@af.afmug.com

http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com



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Re: [AFMUG] Fwd: CAT5. FM. And Rain

[Matt Hoppes]

The Nautel doesn’t ramp. It’s all or nothing. 

> On Apr 20, 2019, at 13:03, Chuck McCown  wrote:
> 
> Would you be allowed to ramp up the RF and see what levels cause what kinds 
> of problems?
>  
> From: Chuck McCown
> Sent: Saturday, April 20, 2019 10:47 AM
> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fwd: CAT5. FM. And Rain
>  
> Do you have perhaps a grounding issue at one end or the other?  Most ethernet 
> devices have phy transformers that ground directly or through a capacitor.  
> Ground potential differences between one end and the other can cause a 
> problem like this.
>  
> If you are connected to an earth ground that changes with moisture then 
> perhaps a ground loop is causing problems.  This seems backwards but it may 
> be ground related somehow. 
>  
> Fiber
> Spray water
> Liquidtight
>  
> I hate to suggest the intermod theory as it seems a bit unlikely to have 
> intermod strong enough to interfere with an ethernet signal, but not too many 
> things left to think. 
>  
>  
>  
> From: Matt Hoppes
> Sent: Saturday, April 20, 2019 10:41 AM
> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fwd: CAT5. FM. And Rain
>  
> The issue has gotten worse over the last two years. With it be terrible right 
> now.
>  
> We just reran cable last month. All new cable and radios. And still having 
> the issue.
> 
>> On Apr 20, 2019, at 12:03, Chuck McCown  wrote:
>> 
>> You would have to climb it with a garden sprayer strapped to your back.
>> I am more of the opinion of the corroded RJ45. 
>>  
>> From: Matt Hoppes
>> Sent: Saturday, April 20, 2019 8:42 AM
>> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fwd: CAT5. FM. And Rain
>>  
>> Not in liquidtight.
>>  
>> Have ground lifted and grounded. No change.
>>  
>> Have not wet things (would be difficult - no ready source of water)
>>  
>> Obviously RF is getting into the Ethernet, when things are wet. I’m just 
>> trying to figure out why. Clearly a connection is being made somewhere it 
>> shouldn’t be.
>>  
>>  
>> 
>>> On Apr 20, 2019, at 09:58, Chuck McCown  wrote:
>>> 
>>> So moisture + rf = Ethernet interference.  Just as originally stated.  No 
>>> standing waves.  
>>> Is your cat5 in liquidtight?  Have you played with grounding & ungrounding 
>>> the shields?  How about taking a garden sprayer and selectively wetting 
>>> things?
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
>>> Begin forwarded message:
>>> 
 From: Matt Hoppes 
 Date: April 20, 2019 at 7:52:12 AM MDT
 To: Chuck McCown 
 Subject: Re: [AFMUG] CAT5. FM. And Rain
 
 Yes. Problem goes away. 
 
>> On Apr 20, 2019, at 09:51, Chuck McCown  wrote:
> 
> Have you killed the ref when you are  having the problem?  Might 
> not be ref related.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>>> On Apr 19, 2019, at 7:11 PM, Matt Hoppes 
>>>  wrote:
>> 
>> 19watts
>> 
 On 4/19/19 8:58 PM, Chuck McCown wrote:
>>> What is the reflected power when you are having problems?
>>> Sent from my iPhone
> On Apr 19, 2019, at 6:41 PM, Matt Hoppes 
>  wrote:
 
 My thoughts too. But the reflected power right now is only 19watts out 
 of 9,000.
 
>> On Apr 19, 2019, at 20:14, Chuck McCown  wrote:
> 
> My guess is that the FM station has a problem with the antenna or 
> transmission line.  Moisture throws off impedance somewhere and you 
> have a strong standing wave on the transmission line.  Probably a bad 
> connector.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>>> On Apr 19, 2019, at 5:52 PM, Matt Hoppes 
>>>  wrote:
>> 
>> Looking to the wisdom of the AF group on this.
>> 
>> I have some equipment on an FM tower.  It’s a 9kw station around 
>> 150ft. We are at 250ft with two sectors and a backhaul.  Netonix 
>> switch in shelter.
>> 
>> Nothing else on the tower.
>> 
>> Normally all is fine.   When it rains or is very moist out (heavy
>> heavy fog) we start having major Ethernet 
>> negotiation issues.   The ports will go from 1Gig to 10F sometimes. 
>> Sometimes drop completely.
>> 
>> I’ve got ferrite beads wrapped about 5 times top and bottom.
>> 
>> Any further words of wisdom onwhat to try?  I 
>> suspect some odd grounding issue. But not sure how to track it down 
>> or isolate it.
>> -- 
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
> 
> -- 
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> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
 
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Re: [AFMUG] Fwd: CAT5. FM. And Rain

[Chuck McCown]

Would you be allowed to ramp up the RF and see what levels cause what kinds of 
problems?

From: Chuck McCown 
Sent: Saturday, April 20, 2019 10:47 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fwd: CAT5. FM. And Rain

Do you have perhaps a grounding issue at one end or the other?  Most ethernet 
devices have phy transformers that ground directly or through a capacitor.  
Ground potential differences between one end and the other can cause a problem 
like this.

If you are connected to an earth ground that changes with moisture then perhaps 
a ground loop is causing problems.  This seems backwards but it may be ground 
related somehow.  

Fiber
Spray water
Liquidtight

I hate to suggest the intermod theory as it seems a bit unlikely to have 
intermod strong enough to interfere with an ethernet signal, but not too many 
things left to think.  



From: Matt Hoppes 
Sent: Saturday, April 20, 2019 10:41 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fwd: CAT5. FM. And Rain

The issue has gotten worse over the last two years. With it be terrible right 
now. 

We just reran cable last month. All new cable and radios. And still having the 
issue. 

On Apr 20, 2019, at 12:03, Chuck McCown  wrote:


  You would have to climb it with a garden sprayer strapped to your back.
  I am more of the opinion of the corroded RJ45.  

  From: Matt Hoppes 
  Sent: Saturday, April 20, 2019 8:42 AM
  To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fwd: CAT5. FM. And Rain

  Not in liquidtight. 

  Have ground lifted and grounded. No change. 

  Have not wet things (would be difficult - no ready source of water)

  Obviously RF is getting into the Ethernet, when things are wet. I’m just 
trying to figure out why. Clearly a connection is being made somewhere it 
shouldn’t be. 



  On Apr 20, 2019, at 09:58, Chuck McCown  wrote:


So moisture + rf = Ethernet interference.  Just as originally stated.  No 
standing waves.   
Is your cat5 in liquidtight?  Have you played with grounding & ungrounding 
the shields?  How about taking a garden sprayer and selectively wetting things?


Sent from my iPhone

Begin forwarded message:


  From: Matt Hoppes 
  Date: April 20, 2019 at 7:52:12 AM MDT
  To: Chuck McCown 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] CAT5. FM. And Rain


  Yes. Problem goes away. 


On Apr 20, 2019, at 09:51, Chuck McCown  wrote:



Have you killed the ref when you are having the problem?  Might not be 
ref related.



Sent from my iPhone



  On Apr 19, 2019, at 7:11 PM, Matt Hoppes 
 wrote:



  19watts



On 4/19/19 8:58 PM, Chuck McCown wrote:

What is the reflected power when you are having problems?

Sent from my iPhone

  On Apr 19, 2019, at 6:41 PM, Matt Hoppes 
 wrote:



  My thoughts too. But the reflected power right now is only 
19watts out of 9,000.



On Apr 19, 2019, at 20:14, Chuck McCown  wrote:



My guess is that the FM station has a problem with the antenna 
or transmission line.  Moisture throws off impedance somewhere and you have a 
strong standing wave on the transmission line.  Probably a bad connector.



Sent from my iPhone



  On Apr 19, 2019, at 5:52 PM, Matt Hoppes 
 wrote:



  Looking to the wisdom of the AF group on this.



  I have some equipment on an FM tower.  It’s a 9kw station 
around 150ft. We are at 250ft with two sectors and a backhaul.  Netonix switch 
in shelter.



  Nothing else on the tower.



  Normally all is fine.   When it rains or is very moist out 
(heavy heavy fog) we start having major Ethernet negotiation issues.   The 
ports will go from 1Gig to 10F sometimes. Sometimes drop completely.



  I’ve got ferrite beads wrapped about 5 times top and bottom.



  Any further words of wisdom on what to try?  I suspect some 
odd grounding issue. But not sure how to track it down or isolate it.

  -- 

  AF mailing list

  AF@af.afmug.com

  http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com



-- 

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---

Re: [AFMUG] Fwd: CAT5. FM. And Rain

[Chuck McCown]

Do you have perhaps a grounding issue at one end or the other?  Most ethernet 
devices have phy transformers that ground directly or through a capacitor.  
Ground potential differences between one end and the other can cause a problem 
like this.

If you are connected to an earth ground that changes with moisture then perhaps 
a ground loop is causing problems.  This seems backwards but it may be ground 
related somehow.  

Fiber
Spray water
Liquidtight

I hate to suggest the intermod theory as it seems a bit unlikely to have 
intermod strong enough to interfere with an ethernet signal, but not too many 
things left to think.  



From: Matt Hoppes 
Sent: Saturday, April 20, 2019 10:41 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fwd: CAT5. FM. And Rain

The issue has gotten worse over the last two years. With it be terrible right 
now. 

We just reran cable last month. All new cable and radios. And still having the 
issue. 

On Apr 20, 2019, at 12:03, Chuck McCown  wrote:


  You would have to climb it with a garden sprayer strapped to your back.
  I am more of the opinion of the corroded RJ45.  

  From: Matt Hoppes 
  Sent: Saturday, April 20, 2019 8:42 AM
  To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fwd: CAT5. FM. And Rain

  Not in liquidtight. 

  Have ground lifted and grounded. No change. 

  Have not wet things (would be difficult - no ready source of water)

  Obviously RF is getting into the Ethernet, when things are wet. I’m just 
trying to figure out why. Clearly a connection is being made somewhere it 
shouldn’t be. 



  On Apr 20, 2019, at 09:58, Chuck McCown  wrote:


So moisture + rf = Ethernet interference.  Just as originally stated.  No 
standing waves.   
Is your cat5 in liquidtight?  Have you played with grounding & ungrounding 
the shields?  How about taking a garden sprayer and selectively wetting things?


Sent from my iPhone

Begin forwarded message:


  From: Matt Hoppes 
  Date: April 20, 2019 at 7:52:12 AM MDT
  To: Chuck McCown 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] CAT5. FM. And Rain


  Yes. Problem goes away. 


On Apr 20, 2019, at 09:51, Chuck McCown  wrote:



Have you killed the ref when you are having the problem?  Might not be 
ref related.



Sent from my iPhone



  On Apr 19, 2019, at 7:11 PM, Matt Hoppes 
 wrote:



  19watts



On 4/19/19 8:58 PM, Chuck McCown wrote:

What is the reflected power when you are having problems?

Sent from my iPhone

  On Apr 19, 2019, at 6:41 PM, Matt Hoppes 
 wrote:



  My thoughts too. But the reflected power right now is only 
19watts out of 9,000.



On Apr 19, 2019, at 20:14, Chuck McCown  wrote:



My guess is that the FM station has a problem with the antenna 
or transmission line.  Moisture throws off impedance somewhere and you have a 
strong standing wave on the transmission line.  Probably a bad connector.



Sent from my iPhone



  On Apr 19, 2019, at 5:52 PM, Matt Hoppes 
 wrote:



  Looking to the wisdom of the AF group on this.



  I have some equipment on an FM tower.  It’s a 9kw station 
around 150ft. We are at 250ft with two sectors and a backhaul.  Netonix switch 
in shelter.



  Nothing else on the tower.



  Normally all is fine.   When it rains or is very moist out 
(heavy heavy fog) we start having major Ethernet negotiation issues.   The 
ports will go from 1Gig to 10F sometimes. Sometimes drop completely.



  I’ve got ferrite beads wrapped about 5 times top and bottom.



  Any further words of wisdom on what to try?  I suspect some 
odd grounding issue. But not sure how to track it down or isolate it.

  -- 

  AF mailing list

  AF@af.afmug.com

  http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com



-- 

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Re: [AFMUG] Fwd: CAT5. FM. And Rain

[Matt Hoppes]

The issue has gotten worse over the last two years. With it be terrible right 
now. 

We just reran cable last month. All new cable and radios. And still having the 
issue. 

> On Apr 20, 2019, at 12:03, Chuck McCown  wrote:
> 
> You would have to climb it with a garden sprayer strapped to your back.
> I am more of the opinion of the corroded RJ45. 
>  
> From: Matt Hoppes
> Sent: Saturday, April 20, 2019 8:42 AM
> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fwd: CAT5. FM. And Rain
>  
> Not in liquidtight.
>  
> Have ground lifted and grounded. No change.
>  
> Have not wet things (would be difficult - no ready source of water)
>  
> Obviously RF is getting into the Ethernet, when things are wet. I’m just 
> trying to figure out why. Clearly a connection is being made somewhere it  
> shouldn’t be.
>  
>  
> 
>> On Apr 20, 2019, at 09:58, Chuck McCown  wrote:
>> 
>> So moisture + rf = Ethernet interference.  Just as originally stated.  No 
>> standing waves.  
>> Is your cat5 in liquidtight?  Have you played with grounding & ungrounding 
>> the shields?  How about taking a garden sprayer and selectively wetting 
>> things?
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>> Begin forwarded message:
>> 
>>> From: Matt Hoppes 
>>> Date: April 20, 2019 at 7:52:12 AM MDT
>>> To: Chuck McCown 
>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] CAT5. FM. And Rain
>>> 
>>> Yes. Problem goes away. 
>>> 
> On Apr 20, 2019, at 09:51, Chuck McCown  wrote:
 
 Have you killed the ref when you are having the problem?  Might not be ref 
 related.
 
 Sent from my iPhone
 
>> On Apr 19, 2019, at 7:11 PM, Matt Hoppes 
>>  wrote:
> 
> 19watts
> 
>>> On 4/19/19 8:58 PM, Chuck McCown wrote:
>> What is the reflected power when you are having problems?
>> Sent from my iPhone
 On Apr 19, 2019, at 6:41 PM, Matt  Hoppes 
  wrote:
>>> 
>>> My thoughts too. But the reflected  power right now is only 
>>> 19watts out of 9,000.
>>> 
> On Apr 19, 2019, at 20:14, ChuckMcCown 
>  wrote:
 
 My guess is that the FM station has a problem with the antenna or 
 transmission line.  Moisture throws off impedance somewhere and you 
 have a strong standing wave on the transmission line.  Probably a bad 
 connector.
 
 Sent from my iPhone
 
>> On Apr 19, 2019, at 5:52 PM, Matt Hoppes 
>>  wrote:
> 
> Looking to the wisdom of the AF group on this.
> 
> I have some equipment on an FM  tower.  It’s a 9kw 
> station around 150ft. We are at 250ft with two sectors and a 
> backhaul.  Netonix switch in shelter.
> 
> Nothing else on the tower.
> 
> Normally all is fine.   When it rains or is very moist out (heavy 
> heavy fog) we start having major Ethernet negotiation issues.   The 
> ports will go from 1Gig to 10F sometimes. Sometimes drop  
> completely.
> 
> I’ve got ferrite beads wrapped about 5 times top and bottom.
> 
> Any further words of wisdom on what to try?  I suspect some odd 
> grounding issue. But not sure how to track it down or isolate it.
> -- 
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
 
 -- 
 AF mailing list
 AF@af.afmug.com
 http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>> 
>>> -- 
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>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
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[AFMUG] OT Waterworld

[Chuck McCown]

This morning, I freed up captive carbon atoms and allowed their happy reunion 
with the free radicals from the oxygen gang.  Lots of conjugal heat was 
evident.  

This is step one.  

Step two is waterworld which leads me to step three.  Meeting Jean Tripplehorn. 
 

At least one of my tumble weed (russian knap weed) mountains are gone.   -- 
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Re: [AFMUG] Fwd: CAT5. FM. And Rain

[Chuck McCown]

You would have to climb it with a garden sprayer strapped to your back.
I am more of the opinion of the corroded RJ45.  

From: Matt Hoppes 
Sent: Saturday, April 20, 2019 8:42 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fwd: CAT5. FM. And Rain

Not in liquidtight. 

Have ground lifted and grounded. No change. 

Have not wet things (would be difficult - no ready source of water)

Obviously RF is getting into the Ethernet, when things are wet. I’m just trying 
to figure out why. Clearly a connection is being made somewhere it shouldn’t 
be. 



On Apr 20, 2019, at 09:58, Chuck McCown  wrote:


  So moisture + rf = Ethernet interference.  Just as originally stated.  No 
standing waves.   
  Is your cat5 in liquidtight?  Have you played with grounding & ungrounding 
the shields?  How about taking a garden sprayer and selectively wetting things?


  Sent from my iPhone

  Begin forwarded message:


From: Matt Hoppes 
Date: April 20, 2019 at 7:52:12 AM MDT
To: Chuck McCown 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] CAT5. FM. And Rain


Yes. Problem goes away. 


  On Apr 20, 2019, at 09:51, Chuck McCown  wrote:



  Have you killed the ref when you are having the problem?  Might not be 
ref related.



  Sent from my iPhone



On Apr 19, 2019, at 7:11 PM, Matt Hoppes 
 wrote:



19watts



  On 4/19/19 8:58 PM, Chuck McCown wrote:

  What is the reflected power when you are having problems?

  Sent from my iPhone

On Apr 19, 2019, at 6:41 PM, Matt Hoppes 
 wrote:



My thoughts too. But the reflected power right now is only 19watts 
out of 9,000.



  On Apr 19, 2019, at 20:14, Chuck McCown  wrote:



  My guess is that the FM station has a problem with the antenna or 
transmission line.  Moisture throws off impedance somewhere and you have a 
strong standing wave on the transmission line.  Probably a bad connector.



  Sent from my iPhone



On Apr 19, 2019, at 5:52 PM, Matt Hoppes 
 wrote:



Looking to the wisdom of the AF group on this.



I have some equipment on an FM tower.  It’s a 9kw station 
around 150ft. We are at 250ft with two sectors and a backhaul.  Netonix switch 
in shelter.



Nothing else on the tower.



Normally all is fine.   When it rains or is very moist out 
(heavy heavy fog) we start having major Ethernet negotiation issues.   The 
ports will go from 1Gig to 10F sometimes. Sometimes drop completely.



I’ve got ferrite beads wrapped about 5 times top and bottom.



Any further words of wisdom on what to try?  I suspect some odd 
grounding issue. But not sure how to track it down or isolate it.

-- 

AF mailing list

AF@af.afmug.com

http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com



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[AFMUG] Odd list serv request

[Chuck McCown]

For the past few weeks, about once a week, I get a request to add this email 
address to the list:
afmug-list-...@mailnesia.com

I am wondering if this is a bot.  -- 
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Re: [AFMUG] Fwd: CAT5. FM. And Rain

[Chuck McCown]

I presume it was OK when first commissioned and later developed the problem?

From: Ken Hohhof 
Sent: Saturday, April 20, 2019 9:08 AM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fwd: CAT5. FM. And Rain

The problem could be complicated, I think people are suggesting mechanisms like 
when the tower is wet various corroded metal-metal connections turn some of the 
FM transmitter power into harmonics which interfere with your Ethernet.  
Vaguely similar to the reason some tower leasing companies insist on low-PIM 
coax connectors and jumpers, PIM being passive intermodulation.  Although PIM 
occurs when you have 2 or more high power signals on different frequencies, and 
the corroded connections create sum and difference frequencies.

 

What I’m saying is the fix might not be as simple as grounding something.  More 
like a generic FM transmitter interfering with Ethernet problem that gets worse 
when stuff is wet.

 

There is an outside chance some of your Ethernet connections are getting 
moisture in them, especially if you have multiple RJ45 connections at things 
like surge protectors.  It wouldn’t hurt to check all those connections for 
water and corrosion, dry them out, replace any suspect connectors, and put a 
dab of silicone grease in them.  But given that the problem goes away when you 
turn off the RF, that’s probably not it.  I only mention it because I have seen 
Ethernet problems at towers in protracted rainy weather even with no FM 
transmitter.

 

BTW, am I reading your post correctly that you have this problem on all the 
radios, not just one?

 

Not sure how difficult this would be, but one approach would be to move the 
Netonix to a weatherproof box at 250 feet, and run fiber + DC power to it.  
Maybe include a DC surge protector on the power, plus unlike Ethernet, you can 
filter the heck out of the DC power, it won’t care.

 

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of Matt Hoppes
Sent: Saturday, April 20, 2019 9:43 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fwd: CAT5. FM. And Rain

 

Not in liquidtight. 

 

Have ground lifted and grounded. No change. 

 

Have not wet things (would be difficult - no ready source of water)

 

Obviously RF is getting into the Ethernet, when things are wet. I’m just trying 
to figure out why. Clearly a connection is being made somewhere it shouldn’t 
be. 

 

 


On Apr 20, 2019, at 09:58, Chuck McCown  wrote:

  So moisture + rf = Ethernet interference.  Just as originally stated.  No 
standing waves.  

  Is your cat5 in liquidtight?  Have you played with grounding & ungrounding 
the shields?  How about taking a garden sprayer and selectively wetting things?

  Sent from my iPhone


  Begin forwarded message:

From: Matt Hoppes 
Date: April 20, 2019 at 7:52:12 AM MDT
To: Chuck McCown 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] CAT5. FM. And Rain

Yes. Problem goes away. 




  On Apr 20, 2019, at 09:51, Chuck McCown  wrote:

   

  Have you killed the ref when you are having the problem?  Might not be 
ref related.

   

  Sent from my iPhone

   

On Apr 19, 2019, at 7:11 PM, Matt Hoppes 
 wrote:

 

19watts

 

  On 4/19/19 8:58 PM, Chuck McCown wrote:

  What is the reflected power when you are having problems?

  Sent from my iPhone

On Apr 19, 2019, at 6:41 PM, Matt Hoppes 
 wrote:

 

My thoughts too. But the reflected power right now is only 19watts 
out of 9,000.

 

  On Apr 19, 2019, at 20:14, Chuck McCown  wrote:

   

  My guess is that the FM station has a problem with the antenna or 
transmission line.  Moisture throws off impedance somewhere and you have a 
strong standing wave on the transmission line.  Probably a bad connector.

   

  Sent from my iPhone

   

On Apr 19, 2019, at 5:52 PM, Matt Hoppes 
 wrote:

 

Looking to the wisdom of the AF group on this.

 

I have some equipment on an FM tower.  It’s a 9kw station 
around 150ft. We are at 250ft with two sectors and a backhaul.  Netonix switch 
in shelter.

 

Nothing else on the tower.

 

Normally all is fine.   When it rains or is very moist out 
(heavy heavy fog) we start having major Ethernet negotiation issues.   The 
ports will go from 1Gig to 10F sometimes. Sometimes drop completely.

 

I’ve got ferrite beads wrapped about 5 times top and bottom.

 

Any further words of wisdom on what to try?  I suspect some odd 
grounding issue. But not sure how to track it down or isolate it.

-- 

AF mailing list

AF@af.afmug.com

http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

   

Re: [AFMUG] Fwd: CAT5. FM. And Rain

[Ken Hohhof]

The problem could be complicated, I think people are suggesting mechanisms like 
when the tower is wet various corroded metal-metal connections turn some of the 
FM transmitter power into harmonics which interfere with your Ethernet.  
Vaguely similar to the reason some tower leasing companies insist on low-PIM 
coax connectors and jumpers, PIM being passive intermodulation.  Although PIM 
occurs when you have 2 or more high power signals on different frequencies, and 
the corroded connections create sum and difference frequencies.

 

What I’m saying is the fix might not be as simple as grounding something.  More 
like a generic FM transmitter interfering with Ethernet problem that gets worse 
when stuff is wet.

 

There is an outside chance some of your Ethernet connections are getting 
moisture in them, especially if you have multiple RJ45 connections at things 
like surge protectors.  It wouldn’t hurt to check all those connections for 
water and corrosion, dry them out, replace any suspect connectors, and put a 
dab of silicone grease in them.  But given that the problem goes away when you 
turn off the RF, that’s probably not it.  I only mention it because I have seen 
Ethernet problems at towers in protracted rainy weather even with no FM 
transmitter.

 

BTW, am I reading your post correctly that you have this problem on all the 
radios, not just one?

 

Not sure how difficult this would be, but one approach would be to move the 
Netonix to a weatherproof box at 250 feet, and run fiber + DC power to it.  
Maybe include a DC surge protector on the power, plus unlike Ethernet, you can 
filter the heck out of the DC power, it won’t care.

 

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of Matt Hoppes
Sent: Saturday, April 20, 2019 9:43 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fwd: CAT5. FM. And Rain

 

Not in liquidtight. 

 

Have ground lifted and grounded. No change. 

 

Have not wet things (would be difficult - no ready source of water)

 

Obviously RF is getting into the Ethernet, when things are wet. I’m just trying 
to figure out why. Clearly a connection is being made somewhere it shouldn’t 
be. 

 

 


On Apr 20, 2019, at 09:58, Chuck McCown mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com> > wrote:

So moisture + rf = Ethernet interference.  Just as originally stated.  No 
standing waves.  

Is your cat5 in liquidtight?  Have you played with grounding & ungrounding the 
shields?  How about taking a garden sprayer and selectively wetting things?

Sent from my iPhone


Begin forwarded message:

From: Matt Hoppes mailto:mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net> >
Date: April 20, 2019 at 7:52:12 AM MDT
To: Chuck McCown mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com> >
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] CAT5. FM. And Rain

Yes. Problem goes away. 




On Apr 20, 2019, at 09:51, Chuck McCown mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com> > wrote:

 

Have you killed the ref when you are having the problem?  Might not be ref 
related.

 

Sent from my iPhone

 

On Apr 19, 2019, at 7:11 PM, Matt Hoppes mailto:mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net> > wrote:

 

19watts

 

On 4/19/19 8:58 PM, Chuck McCown wrote:

What is the reflected power when you are having problems?

Sent from my iPhone

On Apr 19, 2019, at 6:41 PM, Matt Hoppes mailto:mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net> > wrote:

 

My thoughts too. But the reflected power right now is only 19watts out of 9,000.

 

On Apr 19, 2019, at 20:14, Chuck McCown mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com> > wrote:

 

My guess is that the FM station has a problem with the antenna or transmission 
line.  Moisture throws off impedance somewhere and you have a strong standing 
wave on the transmission line.  Probably a bad connector.

 

Sent from my iPhone

 

On Apr 19, 2019, at 5:52 PM, Matt Hoppes mailto:mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net> > wrote:

 

Looking to the wisdom of the AF group on this.

 

I have some equipment on an FM tower.  It’s a 9kw station around 150ft. We are 
at 250ft with two sectors and a backhaul.  Netonix switch in shelter.

 

Nothing else on the tower.

 

Normally all is fine.   When it rains or is very moist out (heavy heavy fog) we 
start having major Ethernet negotiation issues.   The ports will go from 1Gig 
to 10F sometimes. Sometimes drop completely.

 

I’ve got ferrite beads wrapped about 5 times top and bottom.

 

Any further words of wisdom on what to try?  I suspect some odd grounding 
issue. But not sure how to track it down or isolate it.

-- 

AF mailing list

AF@af.afmug.com  

http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

 

-- 

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AF@af.afmug.com  

http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

 

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http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

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Re: [AFMUG] Fwd: CAT5. FM. And Rain

[Matt Hoppes]

What's also interesting is none of the stuff in the shack has 
negotiating issues -- so it doesn't seem to be the switch as a whole 
getting swamped, but rather the CAT5 getting swamped going up the tower.


On 4/20/19 9:58 AM, Chuck McCown wrote:
So moisture + rf = Ethernet interference.  Just as originally stated. 
  No standing waves.
Is your cat5 in liquidtight?  Have you played with grounding & 
ungrounding the shields?  How about taking a garden sprayer and 
selectively wetting things?


Sent from my iPhone

Begin forwarded message:

*From:* Matt Hoppes >

*Date:* April 20, 2019 at 7:52:12 AM MDT
*To:* Chuck McCown mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com>>
*Subject:* *Re: [AFMUG] CAT5. FM. And Rain*

Yes. Problem goes away.

On Apr 20, 2019, at 09:51, Chuck McCown > wrote:


Have you killed the ref when you are having the problem?  Might not 
be ref related.


Sent from my iPhone

On Apr 19, 2019, at 7:11 PM, Matt Hoppes 
> wrote:


19watts


On 4/19/19 8:58 PM, Chuck McCown wrote:
What is the reflected power when you are having problems?
Sent from my iPhone
On Apr 19, 2019, at 6:41 PM, Matt Hoppes 
> wrote:


My thoughts too. But the reflected power right now is only 19watts 
out of 9,000.


On Apr 19, 2019, at 20:14, Chuck McCown > wrote:


My guess is that the FM station has a problem with the antenna or 
transmission line.  Moisture throws off impedance somewhere and 
you have a strong standing wave on the transmission line. 
 Probably a bad connector.


Sent from my iPhone

On Apr 19, 2019, at 5:52 PM, Matt Hoppes 
> wrote:


Looking to the wisdom of the AF group on this.

I have some equipment on an FM tower.  It’s a 9kw station around 
150ft. We are at 250ft with two sectors and a backhaul.  Netonix 
switch in shelter.


Nothing else on the tower.

Normally all is fine.   When it rains or is very moist out 
(heavy heavy fog) we start having major Ethernet negotiation 
issues.   The ports will go from 1Gig to 10F sometimes. 
Sometimes drop completely.


I’ve got ferrite beads wrapped about 5 times top and bottom.

Any further words of wisdom on what to try?  I suspect some odd 
grounding issue. But not sure how to track it down or isolate it.

--
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com 
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com


--
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AF@af.afmug.com 
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com


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Re: [AFMUG] Fwd: CAT5. FM. And Rain

[Matt Hoppes]

Not in liquidtight. 

Have ground lifted and grounded. No change. 

Have not wet things (would be difficult - no ready source of water)

Obviously RF is getting into the Ethernet, when things are wet. I’m just trying 
to figure out why. Clearly a connection is being made somewhere it shouldn’t 
be. 



> On Apr 20, 2019, at 09:58, Chuck McCown  wrote:
> 
> So moisture + rf = Ethernet interference.  Just as originally stated.  No 
> standing waves.  
> Is your cat5 in liquidtight?  Have you played with grounding & ungrounding 
> the shields?  How about taking a garden sprayer and selectively wetting 
> things?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> Begin forwarded message:
> 
>> From: Matt Hoppes 
>> Date: April 20, 2019 at 7:52:12 AM MDT
>> To: Chuck McCown 
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] CAT5. FM. And Rain
>> 
>> Yes. Problem goes away. 
>> 
>>> On Apr 20, 2019, at 09:51, Chuck McCown  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Have you killed the ref when you are having the problem?  Might not be ref 
>>> related.
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
 On Apr 19, 2019, at 7:11 PM, Matt Hoppes 
  wrote:
 
 19watts
 
> On 4/19/19 8:58 PM, Chuck McCown wrote:
> What is the reflected power when you are having problems?
> Sent from my iPhone
>> On Apr 19, 2019, at 6:41 PM, Matt Hoppes 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> My thoughts too. But the reflected power right now is only 19watts out 
>> of 9,000.
>> 
>>> On Apr 19, 2019, at 20:14, Chuck McCown  wrote:
>>> 
>>> My guess is that the FM station has a problem with the antenna or 
>>> transmission line.  Moisture throws off impedance somewhere and you 
>>> have a strong standing wave on the transmission line.  Probably a bad 
>>> connector.
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
 On Apr 19, 2019, at 5:52 PM, Matt Hoppes 
  wrote:
 
 Looking to the wisdom of the AF group on this.
 
 I have some equipment on an FM tower.  It’s a 9kw station around 
 150ft. We are at 250ft with two sectors and a backhaul.  Netonix 
 switch in shelter.
 
 Nothing else on the tower.
 
 Normally all is fine.   When it rains or is very moist out (heavy 
 heavy fog) we start having major Ethernet negotiation issues.   The 
 ports will go from 1Gig to 10F sometimes. Sometimes drop completely.
 
 I’ve got ferrite beads wrapped about 5 times top and bottom.
 
 Any further words of wisdom on what to try?  I suspect some odd 
 grounding issue. But not sure how to track it down or isolate it.
 -- 
 AF mailing list
 AF@af.afmug.com
 http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> AF mailing list
>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>> 
>> -- 
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>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
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[AFMUG] Fwd: CAT5. FM. And Rain

[Chuck McCown]

So moisture + rf = Ethernet interference.  Just as originally stated.  No 
standing waves.  
Is your cat5 in liquidtight?  Have you played with grounding & ungrounding the 
shields?  How about taking a garden sprayer and selectively wetting things?

Sent from my iPhone

Begin forwarded message:

> From: Matt Hoppes 
> Date: April 20, 2019 at 7:52:12 AM MDT
> To: Chuck McCown 
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] CAT5. FM. And Rain
> 
> Yes. Problem goes away. 
> 
>> On Apr 20, 2019, at 09:51, Chuck McCown  wrote:
>> 
>> Have you killed the ref when you are having the problem?  Might not be ref 
>> related.
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On Apr 19, 2019, at 7:11 PM, Matt Hoppes 
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> 19watts
>>> 
 On 4/19/19 8:58 PM, Chuck McCown wrote:
 What is the reflected power when you are having problems?
 Sent from my iPhone
> On Apr 19, 2019, at 6:41 PM, Matt Hoppes 
>  wrote:
> 
> My thoughts too. But the reflected power right now is only 19watts out of 
> 9,000.
> 
>> On Apr 19, 2019, at 20:14, Chuck McCown  wrote:
>> 
>> My guess is that the FM station has a problem with the antenna or 
>> transmission line.  Moisture throws off impedance somewhere and you have 
>> a strong standing wave on the transmission line.  Probably a bad 
>> connector.
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On Apr 19, 2019, at 5:52 PM, Matt Hoppes 
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Looking to the wisdom of the AF group on this.
>>> 
>>> I have some equipment on an FM tower.  It’s a 9kw station around 150ft. 
>>> We are at 250ft with two sectors and a backhaul.  Netonix switch in 
>>> shelter.
>>> 
>>> Nothing else on the tower.
>>> 
>>> Normally all is fine.   When it rains or is very moist out (heavy heavy 
>>> fog) we start having major Ethernet negotiation issues.   The ports 
>>> will go from 1Gig to 10F sometimes. Sometimes drop completely.
>>> 
>>> I’ve got ferrite beads wrapped about 5 times top and bottom.
>>> 
>>> Any further words of wisdom on what to try?  I suspect some odd 
>>> grounding issue. But not sure how to track it down or isolate it.
>>> -- 
>>> AF mailing list
>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>> 
>> -- 
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>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
> 
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