Re: [AFMUG] Billing Platform

[Steve Jones]

does freeside handle annual billing? Powercode has never had a clean way to
do it other than 12mo prepay or something

On Wed, Dec 18, 2019 at 10:13 AM dave via AF  wrote:

> We still use freeside and now added preseem recently and seeing how well
> the mapping goes but we have integrated cacti as well into freeside so
> customers can see their actual usage.
>
>
> On 12/16/19 10:37 AM, Matt wrote:
>
> Looking at outsourcing our database, ticketing and billing platform.
> What is everyone using?
>
>
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
-- 
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AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] Look what I found...

[Ken Hohhof]

Be happy you don’t do residential (or maybe you do).  It’s not uncommon for a 
customer to cut the Cat5 with something like hedge trimmers and then splice it 
with 8 wire nuts.

 

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of Jaime Solorza
Sent: Friday, December 20, 2019 1:10 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: [AFMUG] Look what I found...

 

We installed a GE MDS cellular router in this lift station years ago using 1/2 
inch Heliax...last year a contractor damaged it and replaced it with RG-8we 
always weather proof connectors inside and outdoors along with grounding.  I 
can't find where they grounded it.

We are here on another task but I will report it to SCADA director.

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Re: [AFMUG] Mikrotik Audience mesh router

[Ken Hohhof]

I did a comparison between Audience and hAP ac.  Hard to do exact tests, but I 
would say that as a standalone router, not a mesh system, Audience has no 
better WiFi performance than hAP ac.  They seem about the same in 2.4 GHz, and 
if anything the hAP ac does a little better in 5 GHz, especially in U-NII-1 
where the performance was closer to the U-NII-3 performance than with the 
Audience which seems to take a significant hit in signal level at 5180.

 

The main advantages to the Audience would seem to be it’s pretty, it has two 5 
GHz radios, and it has easy mesh setup via QuickSet and the Link button.  On 
the other hand, the hAP ac has 5 GigE ports instead of 2, and it cost less 
(still expensive, but there’s a Lite version).

 

I haven’t tested a Google WiFi, Eero, or Calix, but I’m beginning to get the 
impression the idea of some WiFi routers being more “powerful” than others and 
having much greater range is a myth.  It seems what makes the biggest 
difference is location, location, location.  And 2.4 does get better range.  
And then there’s interference.  At my house there’s lots of interference from 
neighbors, and once you get a couple rooms away from the router, the latency 
and packet loss performance can go to crap despite what looks like a good 
signal.  That tends to be much less of a factor in most of our rural service 
area.

 

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of Ken Hohhof
Sent: Thursday, December 19, 2019 10:58 PM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Mikrotik Audience mesh router

 

Well, it turns out to be difficult doing a comparison of WiFi performance.

 

I’ve been trying to compare the Mikrotik Audience as a standalone router, vs my 
Technicolor CGA4324 cable modem.  The cable modem is in the basement, and I put 
the Audience right next to it.  My house is kind of complicated, with 2 floors 
and a finished attic, and a 1998 addition to the original 1914 house.

 

So far, it seems that 2.4 GHz performance is about the same, but 5 GHz signals 
are as much as 5-10 dB lower than the cable modem.  The backhaul channel 
however seems about the same as  the cable modem.

 

I’m guessing this is because the Audience default is to use U-NII-1 for 5 GHz 
clients and U-NII-3 for backhaul.  That may make sense when used as a mesh 
system.  But if you were really going to use Audience as a standalone router 
with no satellite mesh units, I suspect you’d want to reconfigure so that 
U-NII-3 is used for clients.  I’m thinking that both router and client antennas 
may be less efficient at the lower frequency.

 

From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com> > On Behalf 
Of Mike Hammett
Sent: Thursday, December 19, 2019 8:59 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com> >
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Mikrotik Audience mesh router

 

Right, but you can get nearly the same functionality from so many other sources 
that aren't vendor locked and nickle-and-dime you.

 



-
Mike Hammett
  Intelligent Computing Solutions
   
  
  
 
  Midwest Internet Exchange
   
  
 
  The Brothers WISP
   
 




  _  

From: ch...@wbmfg.com  
To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" mailto:af@af.afmug.com> >
Sent: Wednesday, December 18, 2019 9:03:45 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Mikrotik Audience mesh router

You can quit any time you want.  The units will not stop working.  

 

From: Mike Hammett 

Sent: Wednesday, December 18, 2019 7:56 PM

To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Mikrotik Audience mesh router

 

I just can't imagine getting sucked further into the Calix hole.



-
Mike Hammett
  Intelligent Computing Solutions
   
  
  
 
  Midwest Internet Exchange
   
  
 
  The Brothers WISP
   
 




  _  

From: "David Coudron" mailto:david.coud...@advantenon.com> >
To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" mailto:af@af.afmug.com> >
Sent: Wednesday, December 18, 2019 8:22:40 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Mikrotik Audience mesh router

Thanks for the post Ken,

Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor UPS

[Ken Hohhof]

In fairness, I can personally attest that lead acid batteries can and do 
explode.  For example, if while jumping a car battery in cold weather, you draw 
a spark and ignite the hydrogen at the top of the cells.  Not sure if AGM 
batteries do that, but flooded cells do, splattering everything nearby with 
sulfuric acid in the process.

 

I’ve never had a lithium ion battery explode or catch fire, but I seem to 
remember they are implicated in some aircraft fires.  Either backup batteries 
for the aircraft electronics, or being carried as cargo.

 

The company that makes DeWalt and Black&Decker power tools is supposedly 
looking at the non exploding technology.

 

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of Steve Jones
Sent: Friday, December 20, 2019 11:55 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor UPS

 

that article manipulates numbers comparing 1 in number of people vs 1 in number 
of lithium batteries. I know zero people who have been lightning struck and a 
handful who have had lithium batteries catch fire

You're far more likely to be struck by lightning (1 in 1,042,000) than ever see 
a battery flame up (1 in 10 million is the number experts tend to quote).  

 

On Fri, Dec 20, 2019 at 11:48 AM Ken Hohhof mailto:af...@kwisp.com> > wrote:

Get the non exploding type?

https://www.cnet.com/news/the-lithium-ion-battery-that-didnt-explode/

 

 

From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com> > On Behalf 
Of Adam Moffett
Sent: Friday, December 20, 2019 11:39 AM
To: af@af.afmug.com  
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor UPS

 

Interesting.  Will check that out.

 

On 12/20/2019 11:21 AM, TJ Trout wrote:

You can float them dumb, but you *should* add a cell balancer which keeps each 
cell within range, they cost between $10-100 per site and aren't complicated to 
install, just goes to each terminal to read each cells voltage and keep it 
within range.  

 

 

 

On Fri, Dec 20, 2019, 5:59 AM mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com> > wrote:

I am laboring under that same assumption.  

 

From: Adam Moffett 

Sent: Friday, December 20, 2019 7:09 AM

To: af@af.afmug.com   

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor UPS

 

I didn't think you could put Lithium on a dumb float charger.  I thought they 
needed special electronics.  I'm happy to be educated if I'm wrong there.

 

On 12/19/2019 8:06 PM, TJ Trout wrote:

Whatever you do don't use lead acid lithium batteries of varying chemistry's 
are available second-hand extremely lightly-used for the exact same price per 
watt hour and they will last long enough to put them in your will

 

On Thu, Dec 19, 2019, 10:50 AM Adam Moffett mailto:dmmoff...@gmail.com> > wrote:

Good point, I'll have to confirm that with them.

On 12/19/2019 3:39 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:

I hope that Edgepoint doesn’t fry if the input is 1 or 2 volts above 54 VDC.

 

If it sees the unregulated battery string voltage, normally you want an upper 
limit of 56 volts.  60 would be even better.

 

 

From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com On Behalf Of Adam Moffett
Sent: Thursday, December 19, 2019 2:25 PM
To: af@af.afmug.com  
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor UPS

 

I could live with either AC or 48V, but 48V would be convenient.

I'm looking at the Ubiquiti EdgePoint EP-S16.  It takes a 54V DC input, has 
SFP+ uplink ports and twelve 802.3af/at ports.  I don't actually expect to use 
every port, but in theory you could  load that up to over 300W, and if I make 
sure to size the UPS for the switch then it's more idiot proof when people come 
along and add stuff.

Ubiquiti has a 54V UPS module now, and you can put in 2+0 150W power supplies 
for 300W total, but it's an indoor case and operating temp only down to 0c.  By 
the time I put that in a heated outdoor box it doesn't look too attractive 
anymore.

I'm very familiar with the Traco and similar products.  It would just be hard 
to beat $650 for a complete system using modular DIN components in a box.  
There's also something to be said for the simplicity of one part on the BOM.

Of course I could use the smaller EdgePoint, but then I don't have the 10Gig 
uplink.

I'm checking with Cyberpower on what happens in an overload condition...maybe 
the guy who adds one AP too many will realize his mistake very quickly.

-Adam

 

 

On 12/19/2019 3:05 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:

You are looking at 48VDC output, or AC with a 48V battery string?

 

Note that unit seems to have around 700 watt hours of batteries, not bad, but 
if you are running 300W or 600W of loads, it’s not going to give you much 
runtime without adding more batteries.

 

We have a couple Alpha Micro350 systems at some small sites, which looks 
physically similar, but that’s AC output.  We only use them at small sites 
because it’s not enough batteries for a large site.  Normally we would put a 
Traco TSP BCM48 and a TSP360-148 or TSP600-148 in the same enclosure with our 
other DIN rail equipment and maybe a bunch of 100 Ah batteries in

Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor UPS

[Steve Jones]

that article manipulates numbers comparing 1 in number of people vs 1 in
number of lithium batteries. I know zero people who have been lightning
struck and a handful who have had lithium batteries catch fire
You're far more likely to be struck by lightning (1 in 1,042,000) than ever
see a battery flame up (1 in 10 million is the number experts tend to
quote).

On Fri, Dec 20, 2019 at 11:48 AM Ken Hohhof  wrote:

> Get the non exploding type?
>
> https://www.cnet.com/news/the-lithium-ion-battery-that-didnt-explode/
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Adam Moffett
> *Sent:* Friday, December 20, 2019 11:39 AM
> *To:* af@af.afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor UPS
>
>
>
> Interesting.  Will check that out.
>
>
>
> On 12/20/2019 11:21 AM, TJ Trout wrote:
>
> You can float them dumb, but you *should* add a cell balancer which keeps
> each cell within range, they cost between $10-100 per site and aren't
> complicated to install, just goes to each terminal to read each cells
> voltage and keep it within range.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Fri, Dec 20, 2019, 5:59 AM  wrote:
>
> I am laboring under that same assumption.
>
>
>
> *From:* Adam Moffett
>
> *Sent:* Friday, December 20, 2019 7:09 AM
>
> *To:* af@af.afmug.com
>
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor UPS
>
>
>
> I didn't think you could put Lithium on a dumb float charger.  I thought
> they needed special electronics.  I'm happy to be educated if I'm wrong
> there.
>
>
>
> On 12/19/2019 8:06 PM, TJ Trout wrote:
>
> Whatever you do don't use lead acid lithium batteries of varying
> chemistry's are available second-hand extremely lightly-used for the exact
> same price per watt hour and they will last long enough to put them in your
> will
>
>
>
> On Thu, Dec 19, 2019, 10:50 AM Adam Moffett  wrote:
>
> Good point, I'll have to confirm that with them.
>
> On 12/19/2019 3:39 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
>
> I hope that Edgepoint doesn’t fry if the input is 1 or 2 volts above 54
> VDC.
>
>
>
> If it sees the unregulated battery string voltage, normally you want an
> upper limit of 56 volts.  60 would be even better.
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com  *On
> Behalf Of *Adam Moffett
> *Sent:* Thursday, December 19, 2019 2:25 PM
> *To:* af@af.afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor UPS
>
>
>
> I could live with either AC or 48V, but 48V would be convenient.
>
> I'm looking at the Ubiquiti EdgePoint EP-S16.  It takes a 54V DC input,
> has SFP+ uplink ports and twelve 802.3af/at ports.  I don't actually expect
> to use every port, but in theory you could  load that up to over 300W, and
> if I make sure to size the UPS for the switch then it's more idiot proof
> when people come along and add stuff.
>
> Ubiquiti has a 54V UPS module now, and you can put in 2+0 150W power
> supplies for 300W total, but it's an indoor case and operating temp only
> down to 0c.  By the time I put that in a heated outdoor box it doesn't look
> too attractive anymore.
>
> I'm very familiar with the Traco and similar products.  It would just be
> hard to beat $650 for a complete system using modular DIN components in a
> box.  There's also something to be said for the simplicity of one part on
> the BOM.
>
> Of course I could use the smaller EdgePoint, but then I don't have the
> 10Gig uplink.
>
> I'm checking with Cyberpower on what happens in an overload
> condition...maybe the guy who adds one AP too many will realize his mistake
> very quickly.
>
> -Adam
>
>
>
>
>
> On 12/19/2019 3:05 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
>
> You are looking at 48VDC output, or AC with a 48V battery string?
>
>
>
> Note that unit seems to have around 700 watt hours of batteries, not bad,
> but if you are running 300W or 600W of loads, it’s not going to give you
> much runtime without adding more batteries.
>
>
>
> We have a couple Alpha Micro350 systems at some small sites, which looks
> physically similar, but that’s AC output.  We only use them at small sites
> because it’s not enough batteries for a large site.  Normally we would put
> a Traco TSP BCM48 and a TSP360-148 or TSP600-148 in the same enclosure with
> our other DIN rail equipment and maybe a bunch of 100 Ah batteries in a
> separate battery box.  Or maybe 4 x 22 Ah batteries in the same enclosure,
> if we don’t need a lot of runtime.
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com  *On
> Behalf Of *Steve Jones
> *Sent:* Thursday, December 19, 2019 1:33 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com
> 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor UPS
>
>
>
> hes building out UPS in a box
>
>
>
> On Thu, Dec 19, 2019 at 1:30 PM Adam Moffett  wrote:
>
> Is there a particular item I should ask him about?
>
> On 12/19/2019 2:22 PM, Steve Jones wrote:
>
> talk to matt at CTI
>
>
>
> On Thu, Dec 19, 2019 at 12:27 PM Adam Moffett  wrote:
>
> https://www.cyberpowersystems.com/product/fttx/outdoor/cs150u48v3/
>
> I tripped over this guy the other day.  They're $650-700 retail and
> frankly, that's really not a bad price for a one-and-done 48V 

Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor UPS

[Ken Hohhof]

Get the non exploding type?

https://www.cnet.com/news/the-lithium-ion-battery-that-didnt-explode/

 

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of Adam Moffett
Sent: Friday, December 20, 2019 11:39 AM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor UPS

 

Interesting.  Will check that out.

 

On 12/20/2019 11:21 AM, TJ Trout wrote:

You can float them dumb, but you *should* add a cell balancer which keeps each 
cell within range, they cost between $10-100 per site and aren't complicated to 
install, just goes to each terminal to read each cells voltage and keep it 
within range.  

 

 

 

On Fri, Dec 20, 2019, 5:59 AM mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com> > wrote:

I am laboring under that same assumption.  

 

From: Adam Moffett 

Sent: Friday, December 20, 2019 7:09 AM

To: af@af.afmug.com   

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor UPS

 

I didn't think you could put Lithium on a dumb float charger.  I thought they 
needed special electronics.  I'm happy to be educated if I'm wrong there.

 

On 12/19/2019 8:06 PM, TJ Trout wrote:

Whatever you do don't use lead acid lithium batteries of varying chemistry's 
are available second-hand extremely lightly-used for the exact same price per 
watt hour and they will last long enough to put them in your will

 

On Thu, Dec 19, 2019, 10:50 AM Adam Moffett mailto:dmmoff...@gmail.com> > wrote:

Good point, I'll have to confirm that with them.

On 12/19/2019 3:39 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:

I hope that Edgepoint doesn’t fry if the input is 1 or 2 volts above 54 VDC.

 

If it sees the unregulated battery string voltage, normally you want an upper 
limit of 56 volts.  60 would be even better.

 

 

From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com On Behalf Of Adam Moffett
Sent: Thursday, December 19, 2019 2:25 PM
To: af@af.afmug.com  
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor UPS

 

I could live with either AC or 48V, but 48V would be convenient.

I'm looking at the Ubiquiti EdgePoint EP-S16.  It takes a 54V DC input, has 
SFP+ uplink ports and twelve 802.3af/at ports.  I don't actually expect to use 
every port, but in theory you could  load that up to over 300W, and if I make 
sure to size the UPS for the switch then it's more idiot proof when people come 
along and add stuff.

Ubiquiti has a 54V UPS module now, and you can put in 2+0 150W power supplies 
for 300W total, but it's an indoor case and operating temp only down to 0c.  By 
the time I put that in a heated outdoor box it doesn't look too attractive 
anymore.

I'm very familiar with the Traco and similar products.  It would just be hard 
to beat $650 for a complete system using modular DIN components in a box.  
There's also something to be said for the simplicity of one part on the BOM.

Of course I could use the smaller EdgePoint, but then I don't have the 10Gig 
uplink.

I'm checking with Cyberpower on what happens in an overload condition...maybe 
the guy who adds one AP too many will realize his mistake very quickly.

-Adam

 

 

On 12/19/2019 3:05 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:

You are looking at 48VDC output, or AC with a 48V battery string?

 

Note that unit seems to have around 700 watt hours of batteries, not bad, but 
if you are running 300W or 600W of loads, it’s not going to give you much 
runtime without adding more batteries.

 

We have a couple Alpha Micro350 systems at some small sites, which looks 
physically similar, but that’s AC output.  We only use them at small sites 
because it’s not enough batteries for a large site.  Normally we would put a 
Traco TSP BCM48 and a TSP360-148 or TSP600-148 in the same enclosure with our 
other DIN rail equipment and maybe a bunch of 100 Ah batteries in a separate 
battery box.  Or maybe 4 x 22 Ah batteries in the same enclosure, if we don’t 
need a lot of runtime.

 

 

From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com On Behalf Of Steve Jones
Sent: Thursday, December 19, 2019 1:33 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor UPS

 

hes building out UPS in a box

 

On Thu, Dec 19, 2019 at 1:30 PM Adam Moffett mailto:dmmoff...@gmail.com> > wrote:

Is there a particular item I should ask him about?

On 12/19/2019 2:22 PM, Steve Jones wrote:

talk to matt at CTI

 

On Thu, Dec 19, 2019 at 12:27 PM Adam Moffett mailto:dmmoff...@gmail.com> > wrote:

https://www.cyberpowersystems.com/product/fttx/outdoor/cs150u48v3/

I tripped over this guy the other day.  They're $650-700 retail and 
frankly, that's really not a bad price for a one-and-done 48V outdoor 
power system.



but 150W is pretty small.  I wish there was a 300W or 600W option.  
Why does it seem like every product I want is a white whale and that 
every vendor has something that's like 90% of the way there, but not 
quite perfect?




-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com  
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

 

-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com  
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

 

Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor UPS

[Adam Moffett]

Interesting.  Will check that out.


On 12/20/2019 11:21 AM, TJ Trout wrote:
You can float them dumb, but you *should* add a cell balancer which 
keeps each cell within range, they cost between $10-100 per site and 
aren't complicated to install, just goes to each terminal to read each 
cells voltage and keep it within range.




On Fri, Dec 20, 2019, 5:59 AM > wrote:


I am laboring under that same assumption.
*From:* Adam Moffett
*Sent:* Friday, December 20, 2019 7:09 AM
*To:* af@af.afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor UPS

I didn't think you could put Lithium on a dumb float charger.  I
thought they needed special electronics.  I'm happy to be educated
if I'm wrong there.

On 12/19/2019 8:06 PM, TJ Trout wrote:

Whatever you do don't use lead acid lithium batteries of varying
chemistry's are available second-hand extremely lightly-used for
the exact same price per watt hour and they will last long enough
to put them in your will
On Thu, Dec 19, 2019, 10:50 AM Adam Moffett 
wrote:

Good point, I'll have to confirm that with them.

On 12/19/2019 3:39 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:


I hope that Edgepoint doesn’t fry if the input is 1 or 2
volts above 54 VDC.

If it sees the unregulated battery string voltage, normally
you want an upper limit of 56 volts.  60 would be even better.

*From:* AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com *On Behalf Of
*Adam Moffett
*Sent:* Thursday, December 19, 2019 2:25 PM
*To:* af@af.afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor UPS

I could live with either AC or 48V, but 48V would be convenient.

I'm looking at the Ubiquiti EdgePoint EP-S16.  It takes a
54V DC input, has SFP+ uplink ports and twelve 802.3af/at
ports.  I don't actually expect to use every port, but in
theory you could  load that up to over 300W, and if I make
sure to size the UPS for the switch then it's more idiot
proof when people come along and add stuff.

Ubiquiti has a 54V UPS module now, and you can put in 2+0
150W power supplies for 300W total, but it's an indoor case
and operating temp only down to 0c.  By the time I put that
in a heated outdoor box it doesn't look too attractive anymore.

I'm very familiar with the Traco and similar products.  It
would just be hard to beat $650 for a complete system using
modular DIN components in a box. There's also something to
be said for the simplicity of one part on the BOM.

Of course I could use the smaller EdgePoint, but then I
don't have the 10Gig uplink.

I'm checking with Cyberpower on what happens in an overload
condition...maybe the guy who adds one AP too many will
realize his mistake very quickly.

-Adam

On 12/19/2019 3:05 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:

You are looking at 48VDC output, or AC with a 48V
battery string?

Note that unit seems to have around 700 watt hours of
batteries, not bad, but if you are running 300W or 600W
of loads, it’s not going to give you much runtime
without adding more batteries.

We have a couple Alpha Micro350 systems at some small
sites, which looks physically similar, but that’s AC
output.  We only use them at small sites because it’s
not enough batteries for a large site. Normally we would
put a Traco TSP BCM48 and a TSP360-148 or TSP600-148 in
the same enclosure with our other DIN rail equipment and
maybe a bunch of 100 Ah batteries in a separate battery
box.  Or maybe 4 x 22 Ah batteries in the same
enclosure, if we don’t need a lot of runtime.

*From:* AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com *On Behalf Of
*Steve Jones
*Sent:* Thursday, December 19, 2019 1:33 PM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
mailto:af@af.afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor UPS

hes building out UPS in a box

On Thu, Dec 19, 2019 at 1:30 PM Adam Moffett
 wrote:

Is there a particular item I should ask him about?

On 12/19/2019 2:22 PM, Steve Jones wrote:

talk to matt at CTI

On Thu, Dec 19, 2019 at 12:27 PM Adam Moffett
 wrote:


https://www.cyberpowersystems.com/product/fttx/outdoor/cs150u48v3/

I tripped over this guy the other day. 
They're $650-700 retail and
frankly, that's really not a bad price for a
one-and-done 48V outdoor
power system.



but 150W is p

Re: [AFMUG] OT Apple News

[Ken Hohhof]

RT News is still free.  Ooooh, maybe they’ll have more shirtless Putin photos.  
Or that hottie Maria Butina (she is actually on RT now, unless that was fake 
news).  And they have an app in the Apple Store.

https://www.rt.com/

 

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of Steve Jones
Sent: Friday, December 20, 2019 10:12 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Apple News

 

have you sen the new universal apple product case? its pretty stylish ans will 
also solve the news problem.

 

On Fri, Dec 20, 2019 at 10:00 AM mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com> > 
wrote:

It just came up this morning when I wanted to read the news.  Wanted money.  I 
would like to go back to the plain vanilla free one if I can figure out how to 
do it.  

 

From: Ken Hohhof 

Sent: Friday, December 20, 2019 8:15 AM

To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Apple News

 

OK, not being a member of the Apple cult, I was unaware of Apple News.  
Apparently what you have is Apple News+.

 

https://www.macrumors.com/guide/apple-news-plus/

 

It seems to give you access to a lot of newspapers and magazines that would 
normally be behind their own paywalls.  It also allows family members to  share 
your subscription.  So it may be worth $9.99/month.  Assuming your family still 
reads, rather than consuming everything as video streams, Instagrams and 
Tik-Toks.  Or maybe I should say assuming your family still reads long-form 
publications rather than tweets.

 

 

From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com> > On Behalf 
Of Nate Burke
Sent: Friday, December 20, 2019 8:50 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com> >
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Apple News

 

Apple can just randomly charge you?  Or did you have to agree to something and 
put your ccard details in when you downloaded the app.  Which should have 
thrown up red flags right there

On 12/20/2019 8:36 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote:

Was it any good?  As in worth paying for?

 

News.google.com   is just an aggregator of stories from 
other well known news sites.  Nothing to write home about.

 

Most “news” these days seems to be opinion, propaganda and ads.  They should 
pay me to view it, not the other way around.

 

 

From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com On Behalf Of ch...@wbmfg.com 
 
Sent: Friday, December 20, 2019 5:42 AM
To: af@af.afmug.com  
Subject: [AFMUG] OT Apple News

 

Apple news on my iphone charged me $10/month this morning.  Has been free up 
until now.

May need to search for a free news feed for the phone now.  

 

 


  _  


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Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor UPS

[TJ Trout]

If you want to learn with a really really easy YouTube diy solar will be
explains how to install a bms, it's just a dumb module that connects with a
few wires

On Fri, Dec 20, 2019, 6:22 AM TJ Trout  wrote:

> I'll give you guys the hookup
>
>
> https://batteryhookup.com
>
> On Fri, Dec 20, 2019, 5:59 AM  wrote:
>
>> I am laboring under that same assumption.
>>
>> *From:* Adam Moffett
>> *Sent:* Friday, December 20, 2019 7:09 AM
>> *To:* af@af.afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor UPS
>>
>>
>> I didn't think you could put Lithium on a dumb float charger.  I thought
>> they needed special electronics.  I'm happy to be educated if I'm wrong
>> there.
>>
>>
>> On 12/19/2019 8:06 PM, TJ Trout wrote:
>>
>> Whatever you do don't use lead acid lithium batteries of varying
>> chemistry's are available second-hand extremely lightly-used for the exact
>> same price per watt hour and they will last long enough to put them in your
>> will
>>
>> On Thu, Dec 19, 2019, 10:50 AM Adam Moffett  wrote:
>>
>>> Good point, I'll have to confirm that with them.
>>> On 12/19/2019 3:39 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
>>>
>>> I hope that Edgepoint doesn’t fry if the input is 1 or 2 volts above 54
>>> VDC.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> If it sees the unregulated battery string voltage, normally you want an
>>> upper limit of 56 volts.  60 would be even better.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com *On Behalf Of *Adam Moffett
>>> *Sent:* Thursday, December 19, 2019 2:25 PM
>>> *To:* af@af.afmug.com
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor UPS
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I could live with either AC or 48V, but 48V would be convenient.
>>>
>>> I'm looking at the Ubiquiti EdgePoint EP-S16.  It takes a 54V DC input,
>>> has SFP+ uplink ports and twelve 802.3af/at ports.  I don't actually expect
>>> to use every port, but in theory you could  load that up to over 300W, and
>>> if I make sure to size the UPS for the switch then it's more idiot proof
>>> when people come along and add stuff.
>>>
>>> Ubiquiti has a 54V UPS module now, and you can put in 2+0 150W power
>>> supplies for 300W total, but it's an indoor case and operating temp only
>>> down to 0c.  By the time I put that in a heated outdoor box it doesn't look
>>> too attractive anymore.
>>>
>>> I'm very familiar with the Traco and similar products.  It would just be
>>> hard to beat $650 for a complete system using modular DIN components in a
>>> box.  There's also something to be said for the simplicity of one part on
>>> the BOM.
>>>
>>> Of course I could use the smaller EdgePoint, but then I don't have the
>>> 10Gig uplink.
>>>
>>> I'm checking with Cyberpower on what happens in an overload
>>> condition...maybe the guy who adds one AP too many will realize his mistake
>>> very quickly.
>>>
>>> -Adam
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 12/19/2019 3:05 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
>>>
>>> You are looking at 48VDC output, or AC with a 48V battery string?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Note that unit seems to have around 700 watt hours of batteries, not
>>> bad, but if you are running 300W or 600W of loads, it’s not going to give
>>> you much runtime without adding more batteries.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> We have a couple Alpha Micro350 systems at some small sites, which looks
>>> physically similar, but that’s AC output.  We only use them at small sites
>>> because it’s not enough batteries for a large site.  Normally we would put
>>> a Traco TSP BCM48 and a TSP360-148 or TSP600-148 in the same enclosure with
>>> our other DIN rail equipment and maybe a bunch of 100 Ah batteries in a
>>> separate battery box.  Or maybe 4 x 22 Ah batteries in the same enclosure,
>>> if we don’t need a lot of runtime.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com *On Behalf Of *Steve Jones
>>> *Sent:* Thursday, December 19, 2019 1:33 PM
>>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor UPS
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> hes building out UPS in a box
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Dec 19, 2019 at 1:30 PM Adam Moffett 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Is there a particular item I should ask him about?
>>>
>>> On 12/19/2019 2:22 PM, Steve Jones wrote:
>>>
>>> talk to matt at CTI
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Dec 19, 2019 at 12:27 PM Adam Moffett 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> https://www.cyberpowersystems.com/product/fttx/outdoor/cs150u48v3/
>>>
>>> I tripped over this guy the other day.  They're $650-700 retail and
>>> frankly, that's really not a bad price for a one-and-done 48V outdoor
>>> power system.
>>>
>>> 
>>>
>>> but 150W is pretty small.  I wish there was a 300W or 600W option.
>>> Why does it seem like every product I want is a white whale and that
>>> every vendor has something that's like 90% of the way there, but not
>>> quite perfect?
>>>
>>> 
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> AF mailing list
>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> AF mailing list
>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> AF mailing list

Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor UPS

[TJ Trout]

I'll give you guys the hookup


https://batteryhookup.com

On Fri, Dec 20, 2019, 5:59 AM  wrote:

> I am laboring under that same assumption.
>
> *From:* Adam Moffett
> *Sent:* Friday, December 20, 2019 7:09 AM
> *To:* af@af.afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor UPS
>
>
> I didn't think you could put Lithium on a dumb float charger.  I thought
> they needed special electronics.  I'm happy to be educated if I'm wrong
> there.
>
>
> On 12/19/2019 8:06 PM, TJ Trout wrote:
>
> Whatever you do don't use lead acid lithium batteries of varying
> chemistry's are available second-hand extremely lightly-used for the exact
> same price per watt hour and they will last long enough to put them in your
> will
>
> On Thu, Dec 19, 2019, 10:50 AM Adam Moffett  wrote:
>
>> Good point, I'll have to confirm that with them.
>> On 12/19/2019 3:39 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
>>
>> I hope that Edgepoint doesn’t fry if the input is 1 or 2 volts above 54
>> VDC.
>>
>>
>>
>> If it sees the unregulated battery string voltage, normally you want an
>> upper limit of 56 volts.  60 would be even better.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com *On Behalf Of *Adam Moffett
>> *Sent:* Thursday, December 19, 2019 2:25 PM
>> *To:* af@af.afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor UPS
>>
>>
>>
>> I could live with either AC or 48V, but 48V would be convenient.
>>
>> I'm looking at the Ubiquiti EdgePoint EP-S16.  It takes a 54V DC input,
>> has SFP+ uplink ports and twelve 802.3af/at ports.  I don't actually expect
>> to use every port, but in theory you could  load that up to over 300W, and
>> if I make sure to size the UPS for the switch then it's more idiot proof
>> when people come along and add stuff.
>>
>> Ubiquiti has a 54V UPS module now, and you can put in 2+0 150W power
>> supplies for 300W total, but it's an indoor case and operating temp only
>> down to 0c.  By the time I put that in a heated outdoor box it doesn't look
>> too attractive anymore.
>>
>> I'm very familiar with the Traco and similar products.  It would just be
>> hard to beat $650 for a complete system using modular DIN components in a
>> box.  There's also something to be said for the simplicity of one part on
>> the BOM.
>>
>> Of course I could use the smaller EdgePoint, but then I don't have the
>> 10Gig uplink.
>>
>> I'm checking with Cyberpower on what happens in an overload
>> condition...maybe the guy who adds one AP too many will realize his mistake
>> very quickly.
>>
>> -Adam
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 12/19/2019 3:05 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
>>
>> You are looking at 48VDC output, or AC with a 48V battery string?
>>
>>
>>
>> Note that unit seems to have around 700 watt hours of batteries, not bad,
>> but if you are running 300W or 600W of loads, it’s not going to give you
>> much runtime without adding more batteries.
>>
>>
>>
>> We have a couple Alpha Micro350 systems at some small sites, which looks
>> physically similar, but that’s AC output.  We only use them at small sites
>> because it’s not enough batteries for a large site.  Normally we would put
>> a Traco TSP BCM48 and a TSP360-148 or TSP600-148 in the same enclosure with
>> our other DIN rail equipment and maybe a bunch of 100 Ah batteries in a
>> separate battery box.  Or maybe 4 x 22 Ah batteries in the same enclosure,
>> if we don’t need a lot of runtime.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com *On Behalf Of *Steve Jones
>> *Sent:* Thursday, December 19, 2019 1:33 PM
>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor UPS
>>
>>
>>
>> hes building out UPS in a box
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Dec 19, 2019 at 1:30 PM Adam Moffett  wrote:
>>
>> Is there a particular item I should ask him about?
>>
>> On 12/19/2019 2:22 PM, Steve Jones wrote:
>>
>> talk to matt at CTI
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Dec 19, 2019 at 12:27 PM Adam Moffett 
>> wrote:
>>
>> https://www.cyberpowersystems.com/product/fttx/outdoor/cs150u48v3/
>>
>> I tripped over this guy the other day.  They're $650-700 retail and
>> frankly, that's really not a bad price for a one-and-done 48V outdoor
>> power system.
>>
>> 
>>
>> but 150W is pretty small.  I wish there was a 300W or 600W option.
>> Why does it seem like every product I want is a white whale and that
>> every vendor has something that's like 90% of the way there, but not
>> quite perfect?
>>
>> 
>>
>>
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
>
> --
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listin

Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor UPS

[TJ Trout]

You can float them dumb, but you *should* add a cell balancer which keeps
each cell within range, they cost between $10-100 per site and aren't
complicated to install, just goes to each terminal to read each cells
voltage and keep it within range.



On Fri, Dec 20, 2019, 5:59 AM  wrote:

> I am laboring under that same assumption.
>
> *From:* Adam Moffett
> *Sent:* Friday, December 20, 2019 7:09 AM
> *To:* af@af.afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor UPS
>
>
> I didn't think you could put Lithium on a dumb float charger.  I thought
> they needed special electronics.  I'm happy to be educated if I'm wrong
> there.
>
>
> On 12/19/2019 8:06 PM, TJ Trout wrote:
>
> Whatever you do don't use lead acid lithium batteries of varying
> chemistry's are available second-hand extremely lightly-used for the exact
> same price per watt hour and they will last long enough to put them in your
> will
>
> On Thu, Dec 19, 2019, 10:50 AM Adam Moffett  wrote:
>
>> Good point, I'll have to confirm that with them.
>> On 12/19/2019 3:39 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
>>
>> I hope that Edgepoint doesn’t fry if the input is 1 or 2 volts above 54
>> VDC.
>>
>>
>>
>> If it sees the unregulated battery string voltage, normally you want an
>> upper limit of 56 volts.  60 would be even better.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com *On Behalf Of *Adam Moffett
>> *Sent:* Thursday, December 19, 2019 2:25 PM
>> *To:* af@af.afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor UPS
>>
>>
>>
>> I could live with either AC or 48V, but 48V would be convenient.
>>
>> I'm looking at the Ubiquiti EdgePoint EP-S16.  It takes a 54V DC input,
>> has SFP+ uplink ports and twelve 802.3af/at ports.  I don't actually expect
>> to use every port, but in theory you could  load that up to over 300W, and
>> if I make sure to size the UPS for the switch then it's more idiot proof
>> when people come along and add stuff.
>>
>> Ubiquiti has a 54V UPS module now, and you can put in 2+0 150W power
>> supplies for 300W total, but it's an indoor case and operating temp only
>> down to 0c.  By the time I put that in a heated outdoor box it doesn't look
>> too attractive anymore.
>>
>> I'm very familiar with the Traco and similar products.  It would just be
>> hard to beat $650 for a complete system using modular DIN components in a
>> box.  There's also something to be said for the simplicity of one part on
>> the BOM.
>>
>> Of course I could use the smaller EdgePoint, but then I don't have the
>> 10Gig uplink.
>>
>> I'm checking with Cyberpower on what happens in an overload
>> condition...maybe the guy who adds one AP too many will realize his mistake
>> very quickly.
>>
>> -Adam
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 12/19/2019 3:05 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
>>
>> You are looking at 48VDC output, or AC with a 48V battery string?
>>
>>
>>
>> Note that unit seems to have around 700 watt hours of batteries, not bad,
>> but if you are running 300W or 600W of loads, it’s not going to give you
>> much runtime without adding more batteries.
>>
>>
>>
>> We have a couple Alpha Micro350 systems at some small sites, which looks
>> physically similar, but that’s AC output.  We only use them at small sites
>> because it’s not enough batteries for a large site.  Normally we would put
>> a Traco TSP BCM48 and a TSP360-148 or TSP600-148 in the same enclosure with
>> our other DIN rail equipment and maybe a bunch of 100 Ah batteries in a
>> separate battery box.  Or maybe 4 x 22 Ah batteries in the same enclosure,
>> if we don’t need a lot of runtime.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com *On Behalf Of *Steve Jones
>> *Sent:* Thursday, December 19, 2019 1:33 PM
>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor UPS
>>
>>
>>
>> hes building out UPS in a box
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Dec 19, 2019 at 1:30 PM Adam Moffett  wrote:
>>
>> Is there a particular item I should ask him about?
>>
>> On 12/19/2019 2:22 PM, Steve Jones wrote:
>>
>> talk to matt at CTI
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Dec 19, 2019 at 12:27 PM Adam Moffett 
>> wrote:
>>
>> https://www.cyberpowersystems.com/product/fttx/outdoor/cs150u48v3/
>>
>> I tripped over this guy the other day.  They're $650-700 retail and
>> frankly, that's really not a bad price for a one-and-done 48V outdoor
>> power system.
>>
>> 
>>
>> but 150W is pretty small.  I wish there was a 300W or 600W option.
>> Why does it seem like every product I want is a white whale and that
>> every vendor has something that's like 90% of the way there, but not
>> quite perfect?
>>
>> 
>>
>>
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
>
> --
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/l

Re: [AFMUG] OT Apple News

[Steve Jones]

have you sen the new universal apple product case? its pretty stylish ans
will also solve the news problem.

On Fri, Dec 20, 2019 at 10:00 AM  wrote:

> It just came up this morning when I wanted to read the news.  Wanted
> money.  I would like to go back to the plain vanilla free one if I can
> figure out how to do it.
>
> *From:* Ken Hohhof
> *Sent:* Friday, December 20, 2019 8:15 AM
> *To:* 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Apple News
>
>
> OK, not being a member of the Apple cult, I was unaware of Apple News.
> Apparently what you have is Apple News+.
>
>
>
> https://www.macrumors.com/guide/apple-news-plus/
>
>
>
> It seems to give you access to a lot of newspapers and magazines that
> would normally be behind their own paywalls.  It also allows family members
> to  share your subscription.  So it may be worth $9.99/month.  Assuming
> your family still reads, rather than consuming everything as video streams,
> Instagrams and Tik-Toks.  Or maybe I should say assuming your family still
> reads long-form publications rather than tweets.
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Nate Burke
> *Sent:* Friday, December 20, 2019 8:50 AM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Apple News
>
>
>
> Apple can just randomly charge you?  Or did you have to agree to something
> and put your ccard details in when you downloaded the app.  Which should
> have thrown up red flags right there
>
> On 12/20/2019 8:36 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
>
> Was it any good?  As in worth paying for?
>
>
>
> News.google.com is just an aggregator of stories from other well known
> news sites.  Nothing to write home about.
>
>
>
> Most “news” these days seems to be opinion, propaganda and ads.  They
> should pay me to view it, not the other way around.
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com *On Behalf Of *ch...@wbmfg.com
> *Sent:* Friday, December 20, 2019 5:42 AM
> *To:* af@af.afmug.com
> *Subject:* [AFMUG] OT Apple News
>
>
>
> Apple news on my iphone charged me $10/month this morning.  Has been free
> up until now.
>
> May need to search for a free news feed for the phone now.
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
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Re: [AFMUG] OT Apple News

[Bill Prince]

  
  
Unless you're willing to pay some real reporters, all you get is
  the tissue paper that can be called news. Blow your nose in it,
  and toss it in the bin.
This is an opinion too. I think it's pretty funny, and sadly,
  describes the situation that 60% or so of us are in.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JhkZMxgPxXU&feature=youtu.be


bp



On 12/20/2019 6:36 AM, Ken Hohhof
  wrote:


  
  
  
  
Was it any good?  As in worth paying for?
 
News.google.com is just an aggregator of
  stories from other well known news sites.  Nothing to write
  home about.
 
Most “news” these days seems to be opinion,
  propaganda and ads.  They should pay me to view it, not the
  other way around.
 
 

  
From: AF
   On Behalf Of ch...@wbmfg.com
  Sent: Friday, December 20, 2019 5:42 AM
  To: af@af.afmug.com
  Subject: [AFMUG] OT Apple News
  

 

  

  Apple news on my
  iphone charged me $10/month this morning.  Has been
  free up until now.


  May need to
  search for a free news feed for the phone now.  

  

  
  
  

  


-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] OT Apple News

[chuck]

It just came up this morning when I wanted to read the news.  Wanted money.  I 
would like to go back to the plain vanilla free one if I can figure out how to 
do it.  

From: Ken Hohhof 
Sent: Friday, December 20, 2019 8:15 AM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Apple News

OK, not being a member of the Apple cult, I was unaware of Apple News.  
Apparently what you have is Apple News+.

 

https://www.macrumors.com/guide/apple-news-plus/

 

It seems to give you access to a lot of newspapers and magazines that would 
normally be behind their own paywalls.  It also allows family members to  share 
your subscription.  So it may be worth $9.99/month.  Assuming your family still 
reads, rather than consuming everything as video streams, Instagrams and 
Tik-Toks.  Or maybe I should say assuming your family still reads long-form 
publications rather than tweets.

 

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of Nate Burke
Sent: Friday, December 20, 2019 8:50 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Apple News

 

Apple can just randomly charge you?  Or did you have to agree to something and 
put your ccard details in when you downloaded the app.  Which should have 
thrown up red flags right there

On 12/20/2019 8:36 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote:

  Was it any good?  As in worth paying for?

   

  News.google.com is just an aggregator of stories from other well known news 
sites.  Nothing to write home about.

   

  Most “news” these days seems to be opinion, propaganda and ads.  They should 
pay me to view it, not the other way around.

   

   

  From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com On Behalf Of ch...@wbmfg.com
  Sent: Friday, December 20, 2019 5:42 AM
  To: af@af.afmug.com
  Subject: [AFMUG] OT Apple News

   

  Apple news on my iphone charged me $10/month this morning.  Has been free up 
until now.

  May need to search for a free news feed for the phone now.  





 




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Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor UPS

[chuck]

I am laboring under that same assumption.  

From: Adam Moffett 
Sent: Friday, December 20, 2019 7:09 AM
To: af@af.afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor UPS

I didn't think you could put Lithium on a dumb float charger.  I thought they 
needed special electronics.  I'm happy to be educated if I'm wrong there.



On 12/19/2019 8:06 PM, TJ Trout wrote:

  Whatever you do don't use lead acid lithium batteries of varying chemistry's 
are available second-hand extremely lightly-used for the exact same price per 
watt hour and they will last long enough to put them in your will

  On Thu, Dec 19, 2019, 10:50 AM Adam Moffett  wrote:

Good point, I'll have to confirm that with them.

On 12/19/2019 3:39 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:

  I hope that Edgepoint doesn’t fry if the input is 1 or 2 volts above 54 
VDC.



  If it sees the unregulated battery string voltage, normally you want an 
upper limit of 56 volts.  60 would be even better.





  From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com On Behalf Of Adam Moffett
  Sent: Thursday, December 19, 2019 2:25 PM
  To: af@af.afmug.com
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor UPS



  I could live with either AC or 48V, but 48V would be convenient.

  I'm looking at the Ubiquiti EdgePoint EP-S16.  It takes a 54V DC input, 
has SFP+ uplink ports and twelve 802.3af/at ports.  I don't actually expect to 
use every port, but in theory you could  load that up to over 300W, and if I 
make sure to size the UPS for the switch then it's more idiot proof when people 
come along and add stuff.

  Ubiquiti has a 54V UPS module now, and you can put in 2+0 150W power 
supplies for 300W total, but it's an indoor case and operating temp only down 
to 0c.  By the time I put that in a heated outdoor box it doesn't look too 
attractive anymore.

  I'm very familiar with the Traco and similar products.  It would just be 
hard to beat $650 for a complete system using modular DIN components in a box.  
There's also something to be said for the simplicity of one part on the BOM.

  Of course I could use the smaller EdgePoint, but then I don't have the 
10Gig uplink.

  I'm checking with Cyberpower on what happens in an overload 
condition...maybe the guy who adds one AP too many will realize his mistake 
very quickly.

  -Adam





  On 12/19/2019 3:05 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:

You are looking at 48VDC output, or AC with a 48V battery string?



Note that unit seems to have around 700 watt hours of batteries, not 
bad, but if you are running 300W or 600W of loads, it’s not going to give you 
much runtime without adding more batteries.



We have a couple Alpha Micro350 systems at some small sites, which 
looks physically similar, but that’s AC output.  We only use them at small 
sites because it’s not enough batteries for a large site.  Normally we would 
put a Traco TSP BCM48 and a TSP360-148 or TSP600-148 in the same enclosure with 
our other DIN rail equipment and maybe a bunch of 100 Ah batteries in a 
separate battery box.  Or maybe 4 x 22 Ah batteries in the same enclosure, if 
we don’t need a lot of runtime.





From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com On Behalf Of Steve Jones
Sent: Thursday, December 19, 2019 1:33 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor UPS



hes building out UPS in a box



On Thu, Dec 19, 2019 at 1:30 PM Adam Moffett  
wrote:

  Is there a particular item I should ask him about?

  On 12/19/2019 2:22 PM, Steve Jones wrote:

talk to matt at CTI



On Thu, Dec 19, 2019 at 12:27 PM Adam Moffett  
wrote:

  https://www.cyberpowersystems.com/product/fttx/outdoor/cs150u48v3/

  I tripped over this guy the other day.  They're $650-700 retail 
and 
  frankly, that's really not a bad price for a one-and-done 48V 
outdoor 
  power system.

  

  but 150W is pretty small.  I wish there was a 300W or 600W 
option.  
  Why does it seem like every product I want is a white whale and 
that 
  every vendor has something that's like 90% of the way there, but 
not 
  quite perfect?

  


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Re: [AFMUG] OT Apple News

[Steve Jones]

I liked google news, but they tend to prioritize the paywall sites that you
have to clear your cache to get past after a couple articles a month. msn
gardens the articles inside their page so you dont hit the paywalls but the
layout repeats the same articles.
apple news probably embed subliminal stuff to make you want neckholders for
earpods and to wear a manbun

On Fri, Dec 20, 2019 at 9:15 AM Ken Hohhof  wrote:

> OK, not being a member of the Apple cult, I was unaware of Apple News.
> Apparently what you have is Apple News+.
>
>
>
> https://www.macrumors.com/guide/apple-news-plus/
>
>
>
> It seems to give you access to a lot of newspapers and magazines that
> would normally be behind their own paywalls.  It also allows family members
> to  share your subscription.  So it may be worth $9.99/month.  Assuming
> your family still reads, rather than consuming everything as video streams,
> Instagrams and Tik-Toks.  Or maybe I should say assuming your family still
> reads long-form publications rather than tweets.
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Nate Burke
> *Sent:* Friday, December 20, 2019 8:50 AM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Apple News
>
>
>
> Apple can just randomly charge you?  Or did you have to agree to something
> and put your ccard details in when you downloaded the app.  Which should
> have thrown up red flags right there
>
> On 12/20/2019 8:36 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
>
> Was it any good?  As in worth paying for?
>
>
>
> News.google.com is just an aggregator of stories from other well known
> news sites.  Nothing to write home about.
>
>
>
> Most “news” these days seems to be opinion, propaganda and ads.  They
> should pay me to view it, not the other way around.
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* AF   *On Behalf
> Of *ch...@wbmfg.com
> *Sent:* Friday, December 20, 2019 5:42 AM
> *To:* af@af.afmug.com
> *Subject:* [AFMUG] OT Apple News
>
>
>
> Apple news on my iphone charged me $10/month this morning.  Has been free
> up until now.
>
> May need to search for a free news feed for the phone now.
>
>
>
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
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Re: [AFMUG] OT Apple News

[Ken Hohhof]

OK, not being a member of the Apple cult, I was unaware of Apple News.
Apparently what you have is Apple News+.

 

https://www.macrumors.com/guide/apple-news-plus/

 

It seems to give you access to a lot of newspapers and magazines that would
normally be behind their own paywalls.  It also allows family members to
share your subscription.  So it may be worth $9.99/month.  Assuming your
family still reads, rather than consuming everything as video streams,
Instagrams and Tik-Toks.  Or maybe I should say assuming your family still
reads long-form publications rather than tweets.

 

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of Nate Burke
Sent: Friday, December 20, 2019 8:50 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Apple News

 

Apple can just randomly charge you?  Or did you have to agree to something
and put your ccard details in when you downloaded the app.  Which should
have thrown up red flags right there

On 12/20/2019 8:36 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote:

Was it any good?  As in worth paying for?

 

News.google.com is just an aggregator of stories from other well known news
sites.  Nothing to write home about.

 

Most "news" these days seems to be opinion, propaganda and ads.  They should
pay me to view it, not the other way around.

 

 

From: AF    On
Behalf Of ch...@wbmfg.com  
Sent: Friday, December 20, 2019 5:42 AM
To: af@af.afmug.com  
Subject: [AFMUG] OT Apple News

 

Apple news on my iphone charged me $10/month this morning.  Has been free up
until now.

May need to search for a free news feed for the phone now.  





 

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AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
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Re: [AFMUG] OT Apple News

[Nate Burke]

Apple can just randomly charge you?  Or did you have to agree to 
something and put your ccard details in when you downloaded the app.  
Which should have thrown up red flags right there


On 12/20/2019 8:36 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote:


Was it any good?  As in worth paying for?

News.google.com is just an aggregator of stories from other well known 
news sites.  Nothing to write home about.


Most “news” these days seems to be opinion, propaganda and ads.  They 
should pay me to view it, not the other way around.


*From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *ch...@wbmfg.com
*Sent:* Friday, December 20, 2019 5:42 AM
*To:* af@af.afmug.com
*Subject:* [AFMUG] OT Apple News

Apple news on my iphone charged me $10/month this morning.  Has been 
free up until now.


May need to search for a free news feed for the phone now.





-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] OT Apple News

[Ken Hohhof]

Was it any good?  As in worth paying for?

 

News.google.com is just an aggregator of stories from other well known news
sites.  Nothing to write home about.

 

Most "news" these days seems to be opinion, propaganda and ads.  They should
pay me to view it, not the other way around.

 

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of ch...@wbmfg.com
Sent: Friday, December 20, 2019 5:42 AM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: [AFMUG] OT Apple News

 

Apple news on my iphone charged me $10/month this morning.  Has been free up
until now.

May need to search for a free news feed for the phone now.  

-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor UPS

[Adam Moffett]

I didn't think you could put Lithium on a dumb float charger.  I thought 
they needed special electronics.  I'm happy to be educated if I'm wrong 
there.



On 12/19/2019 8:06 PM, TJ Trout wrote:
Whatever you do don't use lead acid lithium batteries of varying 
chemistry's are available second-hand extremely lightly-used for the 
exact same price per watt hour and they will last long enough to put 
them in your will


On Thu, Dec 19, 2019, 10:50 AM Adam Moffett > wrote:


Good point, I'll have to confirm that with them.

On 12/19/2019 3:39 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:


I hope that Edgepoint doesn’t fry if the input is 1 or 2 volts
above 54 VDC.

If it sees the unregulated battery string voltage, normally you
want an upper limit of 56 volts.  60 would be even better.

*From:* AF 
 *On Behalf Of *Adam Moffett
*Sent:* Thursday, December 19, 2019 2:25 PM
*To:* af@af.afmug.com 
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor UPS

I could live with either AC or 48V, but 48V would be convenient.

I'm looking at the Ubiquiti EdgePoint EP-S16.  It takes a 54V DC
input, has SFP+ uplink ports and twelve 802.3af/at ports.  I
don't actually expect to use every port, but in theory you could 
load that up to over 300W, and if I make sure to size the UPS for
the switch then it's more idiot proof when people come along and
add stuff.

Ubiquiti has a 54V UPS module now, and you can put in 2+0 150W
power supplies for 300W total, but it's an indoor case and
operating temp only down to 0c.  By the time I put that in a
heated outdoor box it doesn't look too attractive anymore.

I'm very familiar with the Traco and similar products.  It would
just be hard to beat $650 for a complete system using modular DIN
components in a box.  There's also something to be said for the
simplicity of one part on the BOM.

Of course I could use the smaller EdgePoint, but then I don't
have the 10Gig uplink.

I'm checking with Cyberpower on what happens in an overload
condition...maybe the guy who adds one AP too many will realize
his mistake very quickly.

-Adam

On 12/19/2019 3:05 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:

You are looking at 48VDC output, or AC with a 48V battery string?

Note that unit seems to have around 700 watt hours of
batteries, not bad, but if you are running 300W or 600W of
loads, it’s not going to give you much runtime without adding
more batteries.

We have a couple Alpha Micro350 systems at some small sites,
which looks physically similar, but that’s AC output.  We
only use them at small sites because it’s not enough
batteries for a large site.  Normally we would put a Traco
TSP BCM48 and a TSP360-148 or TSP600-148 in the same
enclosure with our other DIN rail equipment and maybe a bunch
of 100 Ah batteries in a separate battery box.  Or maybe 4 x
22 Ah batteries in the same enclosure, if we don’t need a lot
of runtime.

*From:* AF 
 *On Behalf Of *Steve Jones
*Sent:* Thursday, December 19, 2019 1:33 PM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 

*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor UPS

hes building out UPS in a box

On Thu, Dec 19, 2019 at 1:30 PM Adam Moffett
mailto:dmmoff...@gmail.com>> wrote:

Is there a particular item I should ask him about?

On 12/19/2019 2:22 PM, Steve Jones wrote:

talk to matt at CTI

On Thu, Dec 19, 2019 at 12:27 PM Adam Moffett
mailto:dmmoff...@gmail.com>> wrote:


https://www.cyberpowersystems.com/product/fttx/outdoor/cs150u48v3/

I tripped over this guy the other day. They're
$650-700 retail and
frankly, that's really not a bad price for a
one-and-done 48V outdoor
power system.



but 150W is pretty small.  I wish there was a
300W or 600W option.
Why does it seem like every product I want is a
white whale and that
every vendor has something that's like 90% of the
way there, but not
quite perfect?




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[AFMUG] OT Apple News

[chuck]

Apple news on my iphone charged me $10/month this morning.  Has been free up 
until now.
May need to search for a free news feed for the phone now.  -- 
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