Re: [AFMUG] customer to English dictionary

[Steve Jones]

I've had old men start reading the label on the poe to me and it takes a
bit to understand what they're telling me cause I cant even see most of it.
Amazing to me.

Also

Right next to the router: 3 rooms over through a refrigerator behind a tv.

 says your internet is too slow: Patel, I mean
Roy from tech support doesnt even know what the service is he is supporting

I didnt touch anything since it was installed: I moved every wire and
managed to make my cordless phone power supply cord fit in the router

That's the way your techs left it: I am a liar

On Wed, Jul 22, 2020, 8:01 PM Adam Moffett  wrote:

> Modem = a box with blinky lights.
>
> Router = a box with blinky lights.
>
> Hub = a box with blinky lights.
>
> Switch = a box with blink lights.
>
> You don't know what it is until they read the words on it and tell you
> it's the Linksy.
>
>
> On 7/22/2020 6:47 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
>
> I think we need one.  For example,
>
>
>
> Satellite = antenna (e.g. you put a satellite on my roof)
>
> Cable = TV (e.g. where do I plug in the cable)
>
> WiFi = Internet
>
> Booster = range extender
>
> Linsky = router (also Link System)
>
> Slow as dialup = meaningless, nobody remembers dialup
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] 450i/450m DFS false detect problem solved in later firmware?

[Ken Hohhof]

That makes sense.

 

I remember when I worked for electronics manufacturers all rework stations 
having these red cans full of alcohol with a little bristle brush for cleaning 
flux, like this:

https://www.zoro.com/justrite-plunger-can-1-qt-galvanized-steel-red-10108/i/G1109105/

 

Seems like one spark and the whole place would have gone poof, supposedly they 
are safe though.

 

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of Forrest Christian (List Account)
Sent: Wednesday, July 22, 2020 10:27 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 450i/450m DFS false detect problem solved in later 
firmware?

 

We generally run everything through a no-clean process.   So most of the 
products we make never see a cleaning process.

 

Occasionally we'll have to fix a soldering defect, i.e. a bridge or 
insufficient solder.  This sometimes means we have to use additional flux, and 
unfortunately, sometimes you have to clean that residue off since it's beyond 
what no-clean is supposed to be (minimal residues which won't cause a problem). 
  This affects maybe 1 out of 100 boards, if it's even that many.

 

In the case I was talking about, I recently successfully cleaned part of the 
metal off of a patch antenna by accident during the hand assembly of a 
prototype, which is how I figured it out...   I had made a mess out of a part I 
was working on, and just wanted it cleaned up.   

 

On Wed, Jul 22, 2020 at 8:45 PM Ken Hohhof mailto:af...@kwisp.com> > wrote:

I thought the industry had gone to water soluble flux and then to no clean 
flux.  Unless you’re talking about maybe some alcohol after a manual repair.

 

From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com> > On Behalf 
Of Forrest Christian (List Account)
Sent: Wednesday, July 22, 2020 9:25 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com> >
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 450i/450m DFS false detect problem solved in later 
firmware?

 

Yes it is.   I'm also a bit concerned with a bit of the material compatibility 
with the latest patch they've used as they seem to be doing some sort of metal 
depositing which is rather easy to 'erase' with a few of the solvents one 
normally encounters in an electronics assembly line.  It really doesn't like 
the flux cleaner we use here as an example.

 

 

 

On Wed, Jul 22, 2020 at 8:05 PM Chuck McCown mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com> > wrote:

Is the metal of the patch exposed.  Even if it is exposed, a thin layer will 
not lower the frequency that much.  If it was .100” thick then you may see a 
significant change,

Sent from my iPhone

 

On Jul 22, 2020, at 6:50 PM, Forrest Christian (List Account) 
mailto:li...@packetflux.com> > wrote:



Actually it is a bare ceramic patch antenna.   Look at the top, you're seeing 
the side view.

 

When I got the response last time from the vendor they said they don't 
recommend it, and stated several reasons including if I remember correctly 
something about changing the dielectric constant in some odd way, detuning the 
antenna.   We didn't get much farther than that since they didn't have a good 
answer about whether this was confined to certain types of coating or what...

 

I haven't heard back from them on whether or not the latest modules or not have 
the same issues, but I suspect they likely do.

 

On the other hand, it wouldn't surprise me to find that what they're concerned 
about isn't going to change the tuning enough to actually make a difference, 
and they're just being overly cautious.

 

 

On Wed, Jul 22, 2020 at 7:02 AM Chuck McCown mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com> > wrote:

I would not expect a thin layer of conformal to bother the antenna in a 
significant way.  It might if you were putting it on a bare patch but that is 
not the case here.

Sent from my iPhone

 

On Jul 22, 2020, at 6:53 AM, Mark Radabaugh mailto:m...@amplex.net> > wrote:



 

I decided to try a conformal coating on the Syncbox to see if it would cause 
any problems with the GPS and avoid the corrosion issues we have seen.   We 
tested before and after the conformal coating with no detectable impairment to 
the GPS SNR and signal level.   

 

Only about 16 hours so far but throwing a pitcher of water on it and leaving 
the cover off all night in a rainstorm hasn’t seemed to bother it.   The 
picture didn’t catch the sync light but it’s happily blinking away.  There is a 
lot of silicon grease on/around the RJ45 which looks a bit funny but I can’t 
conformal coat the jack itself for obvious reasons and I was intending to douse 
this one with water.  I’m sure SNR is bad right now with a blob of water on top 
of the antenna but it’s picking up enough to stay in lock.

 

Going to leave it like this and give it a couple weeks to see how it holds up, 
but so far so good.  

 

Regarding loss of sync on 450 equipment - on further examination of the logs we 
are seeing issues with 450 equipment randomly losing sync or switching to 
free-run and back to sync-over-power across a number of injectors - CMM5, 
CTM-2,

Re: [AFMUG] 450i/450m DFS false detect problem solved in later firmware?

[Forrest Christian (List Account)]

We generally run everything through a no-clean process.   So most of the
products we make never see a cleaning process.

Occasionally we'll have to fix a soldering defect, i.e. a bridge or
insufficient solder.  This sometimes means we have to use additional flux,
and unfortunately, sometimes you have to clean that residue off since it's
beyond what no-clean is supposed to be (minimal residues which won't cause
a problem).   This affects maybe 1 out of 100 boards, if it's even that
many.

In the case I was talking about, I recently successfully cleaned part of
the metal off of a patch antenna by accident during the hand assembly of a
prototype, which is how I figured it out...   I had made a mess out of a
part I was working on, and just wanted it cleaned up.

On Wed, Jul 22, 2020 at 8:45 PM Ken Hohhof  wrote:

> I thought the industry had gone to water soluble flux and then to no clean
> flux.  Unless you’re talking about maybe some alcohol after a manual repair.
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Forrest Christian
> (List Account)
> *Sent:* Wednesday, July 22, 2020 9:25 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] 450i/450m DFS false detect problem solved in later
> firmware?
>
>
>
> Yes it is.   I'm also a bit concerned with a bit of the material
> compatibility with the latest patch they've used as they seem to be doing
> some sort of metal depositing which is rather easy to 'erase' with a few of
> the solvents one normally encounters in an electronics assembly line.  It
> really doesn't like the flux cleaner we use here as an example.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Wed, Jul 22, 2020 at 8:05 PM Chuck McCown  wrote:
>
> Is the metal of the patch exposed.  Even if it is exposed, a thin layer
> will not lower the frequency that much.  If it was .100” thick then you may
> see a significant change,
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>
>
> On Jul 22, 2020, at 6:50 PM, Forrest Christian (List Account) <
> li...@packetflux.com> wrote:
>
> 
>
> Actually it is a bare ceramic patch antenna.   Look at the top, you're
> seeing the side view.
>
>
>
> When I got the response last time from the vendor they said they don't
> recommend it, and stated several reasons including if I remember correctly
> something about changing the dielectric constant in some odd way, detuning
> the antenna.   We didn't get much farther than that since they didn't have
> a good answer about whether this was confined to certain types of coating
> or what...
>
>
>
> I haven't heard back from them on whether or not the latest modules or not
> have the same issues, but I suspect they likely do.
>
>
>
> On the other hand, it wouldn't surprise me to find that what they're
> concerned about isn't going to change the tuning enough to actually make a
> difference, and they're just being overly cautious.
>
>
>
>
>
> On Wed, Jul 22, 2020 at 7:02 AM Chuck McCown  wrote:
>
> I would not expect a thin layer of conformal to bother the antenna in a
> significant way.  It might if you were putting it on a bare patch but that
> is not the case here.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>
>
> On Jul 22, 2020, at 6:53 AM, Mark Radabaugh  wrote:
>
> 
>
>
>
> I decided to try a conformal coating on the Syncbox to see if it would
> cause any problems with the GPS and avoid the corrosion issues we have
> seen.   We tested before and after the conformal coating with no detectable
> impairment to the GPS SNR and signal level.
>
>
>
> Only about 16 hours so far but throwing a pitcher of water on it and
> leaving the cover off all night in a rainstorm hasn’t seemed to bother it.
>   The picture didn’t catch the sync light but it’s happily blinking away.
> There is a lot of silicon grease on/around the RJ45 which looks a bit funny
> but I can’t conformal coat the jack itself for obvious reasons and I was
> intending to douse this one with water.  I’m sure SNR is bad right now with
> a blob of water on top of the antenna but it’s picking up enough to stay in
> lock.
>
>
>
> Going to leave it like this and give it a couple weeks to see how it holds
> up, but so far so good.
>
>
>
> Regarding loss of sync on 450 equipment - on further examination of the
> logs we are seeing issues with 450 equipment randomly losing sync or
> switching to free-run and back to sync-over-power across a number of
> injectors - CMM5, CTM-2, and Rackinjectors.   These issues started about
> the time we started deploying SyncInjectors but it’s really looking like
> that is coincidental.   Data is pointing toward something that changed with
> the firmware rather than the injector.   I have not had time yet to see if
> it included the older 450 versus 450i yet.
>
>
>
> Mark
>
>
>
> 
>
>
>
> On Jul 13, 2020, at 10:28 PM, Forrest Christian (List Account) <
> li...@packetflux.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> You bring up a few fair, and known, points.  I'll respond to at least a
> few of them:
>
>
>
> In relation to the water ingress, we've seen enough of these to know it's
> at least an occasional issue.  Especially 

Re: [AFMUG] 450i/450m DFS false detect problem solved in later firmware?

[Ken Hohhof]

I thought the industry had gone to water soluble flux and then to no clean 
flux.  Unless you’re talking about maybe some alcohol after a manual repair.

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of Forrest Christian (List Account)
Sent: Wednesday, July 22, 2020 9:25 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 450i/450m DFS false detect problem solved in later 
firmware?

 

Yes it is.   I'm also a bit concerned with a bit of the material compatibility 
with the latest patch they've used as they seem to be doing some sort of metal 
depositing which is rather easy to 'erase' with a few of the solvents one 
normally encounters in an electronics assembly line.  It really doesn't like 
the flux cleaner we use here as an example.

 

 

 

On Wed, Jul 22, 2020 at 8:05 PM Chuck McCown mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com> > wrote:

Is the metal of the patch exposed.  Even if it is exposed, a thin layer will 
not lower the frequency that much.  If it was .100” thick then you may see a 
significant change,

Sent from my iPhone





On Jul 22, 2020, at 6:50 PM, Forrest Christian (List Account) 
mailto:li...@packetflux.com> > wrote:



Actually it is a bare ceramic patch antenna.   Look at the top, you're seeing 
the side view.

 

When I got the response last time from the vendor they said they don't 
recommend it, and stated several reasons including if I remember correctly 
something about changing the dielectric constant in some odd way, detuning the 
antenna.   We didn't get much farther than that since they didn't have a good 
answer about whether this was confined to certain types of coating or what...

 

I haven't heard back from them on whether or not the latest modules or not have 
the same issues, but I suspect they likely do.

 

On the other hand, it wouldn't surprise me to find that what they're concerned 
about isn't going to change the tuning enough to actually make a difference, 
and they're just being overly cautious.

 

 

On Wed, Jul 22, 2020 at 7:02 AM Chuck McCown mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com> > wrote:

I would not expect a thin layer of conformal to bother the antenna in a 
significant way.  It might if you were putting it on a bare patch but that is 
not the case here.

Sent from my iPhone





On Jul 22, 2020, at 6:53 AM, Mark Radabaugh mailto:m...@amplex.net> > wrote:



 

I decided to try a conformal coating on the Syncbox to see if it would cause 
any problems with the GPS and avoid the corrosion issues we have seen.   We 
tested before and after the conformal coating with no detectable impairment to 
the GPS SNR and signal level.   

 

Only about 16 hours so far but throwing a pitcher of water on it and leaving 
the cover off all night in a rainstorm hasn’t seemed to bother it.   The 
picture didn’t catch the sync light but it’s happily blinking away.  There is a 
lot of silicon grease on/around the RJ45 which looks a bit funny but I can’t 
conformal coat the jack itself for obvious reasons and I was intending to douse 
this one with water.  I’m sure SNR is bad right now with a blob of water on top 
of the antenna but it’s picking up enough to stay in lock.

 

Going to leave it like this and give it a couple weeks to see how it holds up, 
but so far so good.  

 

Regarding loss of sync on 450 equipment - on further examination of the logs we 
are seeing issues with 450 equipment randomly losing sync or switching to 
free-run and back to sync-over-power across a number of injectors - CMM5, 
CTM-2, and Rackinjectors.   These issues started about the time we started 
deploying SyncInjectors but it’s really looking like that is coincidental.   
Data is pointing toward something that changed with the firmware rather than 
the injector.   I have not had time yet to see if it included the older 450 
versus 450i yet.

 

Mark

 







On Jul 13, 2020, at 10:28 PM, Forrest Christian (List Account) 
mailto:li...@packetflux.com> > wrote:

 

You bring up a few fair, and known, points.  I'll respond to at least a few of 
them:

 

In relation to the water ingress, we've seen enough of these to know it's at 
least an occasional issue.  Especially in hotter climates, one thing we've seen 
is the gasket cracking in the enclosure.  I'm also not completely convinced 
this isn't a water condensation/surface moisture issue in damper climates.   
Our enclosure manufacture just switched the gasketing material, perhaps as a 
result of our whining, to something different.   I've also looked at various 
alternatives for enclosures but haven't found the right one yet.   I thought I 
had one which would have been perfect, until I got the $50 per unit quote in 
quantity.  Some days I miss the pipes, but it was time for them to go from a 
mostly marketing perspective. 

 

I've also looked at the conformal coating in the past, and the challenge has 
been that the GPS module manufacture has told us this is a no-no since it 
apparently changes the tuning of the GPS patch antenna.   I probably need to 
re-evaluate this now that t

Re: [AFMUG] 450i/450m DFS false detect problem solved in later firmware?

[Forrest Christian (List Account)]

Yes it is.   I'm also a bit concerned with a bit of the material
compatibility with the latest patch they've used as they seem to be doing
some sort of metal depositing which is rather easy to 'erase' with a few of
the solvents one normally encounters in an electronics assembly line.  It
really doesn't like the flux cleaner we use here as an example.



On Wed, Jul 22, 2020 at 8:05 PM Chuck McCown  wrote:

> Is the metal of the patch exposed.  Even if it is exposed, a thin layer
> will not lower the frequency that much.  If it was .100” thick then you may
> see a significant change,
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Jul 22, 2020, at 6:50 PM, Forrest Christian (List Account) <
> li...@packetflux.com> wrote:
>
> 
> Actually it is a bare ceramic patch antenna.   Look at the top, you're
> seeing the side view.
>
> When I got the response last time from the vendor they said they don't
> recommend it, and stated several reasons including if I remember correctly
> something about changing the dielectric constant in some odd way, detuning
> the antenna.   We didn't get much farther than that since they didn't have
> a good answer about whether this was confined to certain types of coating
> or what...
>
> I haven't heard back from them on whether or not the latest modules or not
> have the same issues, but I suspect they likely do.
>
> On the other hand, it wouldn't surprise me to find that what they're
> concerned about isn't going to change the tuning enough to actually make a
> difference, and they're just being overly cautious.
>
>
> On Wed, Jul 22, 2020 at 7:02 AM Chuck McCown  wrote:
>
>> I would not expect a thin layer of conformal to bother the antenna in a
>> significant way.  It might if you were putting it on a bare patch but that
>> is not the case here.
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On Jul 22, 2020, at 6:53 AM, Mark Radabaugh  wrote:
>>
>> 
>>
>> I decided to try a conformal coating on the Syncbox to see if it would
>> cause any problems with the GPS and avoid the corrosion issues we have
>> seen.   We tested before and after the conformal coating with no detectable
>> impairment to the GPS SNR and signal level.
>>
>> Only about 16 hours so far but throwing a pitcher of water on it and
>> leaving the cover off all night in a rainstorm hasn’t seemed to bother it.
>>   The picture didn’t catch the sync light but it’s happily blinking away.
>> There is a lot of silicon grease on/around the RJ45 which looks a bit funny
>> but I can’t conformal coat the jack itself for obvious reasons and I was
>> intending to douse this one with water.  I’m sure SNR is bad right now with
>> a blob of water on top of the antenna but it’s picking up enough to stay in
>> lock.
>>
>> Going to leave it like this and give it a couple weeks to see how it
>> holds up, but so far so good.
>>
>> Regarding loss of sync on 450 equipment - on further examination of the
>> logs we are seeing issues with 450 equipment randomly losing sync or
>> switching to free-run and back to sync-over-power across a number of
>> injectors - CMM5, CTM-2, and Rackinjectors.   These issues started about
>> the time we started deploying SyncInjectors but it’s really looking like
>> that is coincidental.   Data is pointing toward something that changed with
>> the firmware rather than the injector.   I have not had time yet to see if
>> it included the older 450 versus 450i yet.
>>
>> Mark
>>
>> 
>>
>> On Jul 13, 2020, at 10:28 PM, Forrest Christian (List Account) <
>> li...@packetflux.com> wrote:
>>
>> You bring up a few fair, and known, points.  I'll respond to at least a
>> few of them:
>>
>> In relation to the water ingress, we've seen enough of these to know it's
>> at least an occasional issue.  Especially in hotter climates, one thing
>> we've seen is the gasket cracking in the enclosure.  I'm also not
>> completely convinced this isn't a water condensation/surface moisture issue
>> in damper climates.   Our enclosure manufacture just switched the gasketing
>> material, perhaps as a result of our whining, to something different.
>>  I've also looked at various alternatives for enclosures but haven't found
>> the right one yet.   I thought I had one which would have been perfect,
>> until I got the $50 per unit quote in quantity.  Some days I miss the
>> pipes, but it was time for them to go from a mostly marketing perspective.
>>
>> I've also looked at the conformal coating in the past, and the challenge
>> has been that the GPS module manufacture has told us this is a no-no since
>> it apparently changes the tuning of the GPS patch antenna.   I probably
>> need to re-evaluate this now that there's a different patch antenna on the
>> new modules - but I expect a similar answer.
>>
>> For the past couple of years, I've been trying to move to a module flat
>> on the board and then either using a PCB antenna like is used in devices
>> like cell phones, where the antenna's pattern is such that mounting it flat
>> on vertically oriented PCB results in 

Re: [AFMUG] 450i/450m DFS false detect problem solved in later firmware?

[Chuck McCown]

If you can read signal strength, that is all you need. Spray it and watch for a 
change.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jul 22, 2020, at 6:59 PM, Forrest Christian (List Account) 
>  wrote:
> 
> 
> I'll have to do some experiments here to see if I'm comfortable with doing 
> this.  I was hopeful that the vendor would say that the newest modules are 
> fine being conformally coated, but like I said below, haven't heard back.
> 
> I also have a beta firmware for the rackinjectors in which you're able to 
> optionally set the pulse mode to the GPS equivalent of "autosync+freerun".   
> Initial tests show no drops, and reasonable holdover performance.  I.E. you 
> can completely lose signal for several minutes and still be close enough to 
> sync that you shouldn't have any problems.If you want to give that a 
> shot, shoot an email into cust...@packetflux.com, and I'll reply with a copy 
> of the firmware.   I guess that goes for anyone else on the list.
> 
> One note about the avantage of this over autosync+freerun is that even if the 
> GPS at a site drifts in this mode, all of the radios getting sync from that 
> receivers remain in sync with each other, versus autosync+freerun in the 
> radios means that each radio in freerun ends up out of sync with the others 
> in the event of a GPS loss.
> 
>> On Wed, Jul 22, 2020 at 6:53 AM Mark Radabaugh  wrote:
>> 
>> I decided to try a conformal coating on the Syncbox to see if it would cause 
>> any problems with the GPS and avoid the corrosion issues we have seen.   We 
>> tested before and after the conformal coating with no detectable impairment 
>> to the GPS SNR and signal level.   
>> 
>> Only about 16 hours so far but throwing a pitcher of water on it and leaving 
>> the cover off all night in a rainstorm hasn’t seemed to bother it.   The 
>> picture didn’t catch the sync light but it’s happily blinking away.  There 
>> is a lot of silicon grease on/around the RJ45 which looks a bit funny but I 
>> can’t conformal coat the jack itself for obvious reasons and I was intending 
>> to douse this one with water.  I’m sure SNR is bad right now with a blob of 
>> water on top of the antenna but it’s picking up enough to stay in lock.
>> 
>> Going to leave it like this and give it a couple weeks to see how it holds 
>> up, but so far so good.  
>> 
>> Regarding loss of sync on 450 equipment - on further examination of the logs 
>> we are seeing issues with 450 equipment randomly losing sync or switching to 
>> free-run and back to sync-over-power across a number of injectors - CMM5, 
>> CTM-2, and Rackinjectors.   These issues started about the time we started 
>> deploying SyncInjectors but it’s really looking like that is coincidental.   
>> Data is pointing toward something that changed with the firmware rather than 
>> the injector.   I have not had time yet to see if it included the older 450 
>> versus 450i yet.
>> 
>> Mark
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On Jul 13, 2020, at 10:28 PM, Forrest Christian (List Account) 
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> You bring up a few fair, and known, points.  I'll respond to at least a few 
>>> of them:
>>> 
>>> In relation to the water ingress, we've seen enough of these to know it's 
>>> at least an occasional issue.  Especially in hotter climates, one thing 
>>> we've seen is the gasket cracking in the enclosure.  I'm also not 
>>> completely convinced this isn't a water condensation/surface moisture issue 
>>> in damper climates.   Our enclosure manufacture just switched the gasketing 
>>> material, perhaps as a result of our whining, to something different.   
>>> I've also looked at various alternatives for enclosures but haven't found 
>>> the right one yet.   I thought I had one which would have been perfect, 
>>> until I got the $50 per unit quote in quantity.  Some days I miss the 
>>> pipes, but it was time for them to go from a mostly marketing perspective. 
>>> 
>>> I've also looked at the conformal coating in the past, and the challenge 
>>> has been that the GPS module manufacture has told us this is a no-no since 
>>> it apparently changes the tuning of the GPS patch antenna.   I probably 
>>> need to re-evaluate this now that there's a different patch antenna on the 
>>> new modules - but I expect a similar answer.
>>> 
>>> For the past couple of years, I've been trying to move to a module flat on 
>>> the board and then either using a PCB antenna like is used in devices like 
>>> cell phones, where the antenna's pattern is such that mounting it flat on 
>>> vertically oriented PCB results in a vertical pattern like the patch has. 
>>> This should solve the water getting on the antenna issue, as there won't be 
>>> anything directly below the seam to leak on.The holdup has been me 
>>> trying to possibly move to a module with a different GPS chipset at the 
>>> same time, hoping that this would be better than our existing module.   
>>> With all the warts (some of which will be described below), I'm finding 
>>> that the mod

Re: [AFMUG] 450i/450m DFS false detect problem solved in later firmware?

[Chuck McCown]

Is the metal of the patch exposed.  Even if it is exposed, a thin layer will 
not lower the frequency that much.  If it was .100” thick then you may see a 
significant change,

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jul 22, 2020, at 6:50 PM, Forrest Christian (List Account) 
>  wrote:
> 
> 
> Actually it is a bare ceramic patch antenna.   Look at the top, you're seeing 
> the side view.
> 
> When I got the response last time from the vendor they said they don't 
> recommend it, and stated several reasons including if I remember correctly 
> something about changing the dielectric constant in some odd way, detuning 
> the antenna.   We didn't get much farther than that since they didn't have a 
> good answer about whether this was confined to certain types of coating or 
> what...
> 
> I haven't heard back from them on whether or not the latest modules or not 
> have the same issues, but I suspect they likely do.
> 
> On the other hand, it wouldn't surprise me to find that what they're 
> concerned about isn't going to change the tuning enough to actually make a 
> difference, and they're just being overly cautious.
> 
> 
> On Wed, Jul 22, 2020 at 7:02 AM Chuck McCown  wrote:
>> I would not expect a thin layer of conformal to bother the antenna in a 
>> significant way.  It might if you were putting it on a bare patch but that 
>> is not the case here.
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On Jul 22, 2020, at 6:53 AM, Mark Radabaugh  wrote:
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> I decided to try a conformal coating on the Syncbox to see if it would 
>>> cause any problems with the GPS and avoid the corrosion issues we have 
>>> seen.   We tested before and after the conformal coating with no detectable 
>>> impairment to the GPS SNR and signal level.   
>>> 
>>> Only about 16 hours so far but throwing a pitcher of water on it and 
>>> leaving the cover off all night in a rainstorm hasn’t seemed to bother it.  
>>>  The picture didn’t catch the sync light but it’s happily blinking away.  
>>> There is a lot of silicon grease on/around the RJ45 which looks a bit funny 
>>> but I can’t conformal coat the jack itself for obvious reasons and I was 
>>> intending to douse this one with water.  I’m sure SNR is bad right now with 
>>> a blob of water on top of the antenna but it’s picking up enough to stay in 
>>> lock.
>>> 
>>> Going to leave it like this and give it a couple weeks to see how it holds 
>>> up, but so far so good.  
>>> 
>>> Regarding loss of sync on 450 equipment - on further examination of the 
>>> logs we are seeing issues with 450 equipment randomly losing sync or 
>>> switching to free-run and back to sync-over-power across a number of 
>>> injectors - CMM5, CTM-2, and Rackinjectors.   These issues started about 
>>> the time we started deploying SyncInjectors but it’s really looking like 
>>> that is coincidental.   Data is pointing toward something that changed with 
>>> the firmware rather than the injector.   I have not had time yet to see if 
>>> it included the older 450 versus 450i yet.
>>> 
>>> Mark
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
 On Jul 13, 2020, at 10:28 PM, Forrest Christian (List Account) 
  wrote:
 
 You bring up a few fair, and known, points.  I'll respond to at least a 
 few of them:
 
 In relation to the water ingress, we've seen enough of these to know it's 
 at least an occasional issue.  Especially in hotter climates, one thing 
 we've seen is the gasket cracking in the enclosure.  I'm also not 
 completely convinced this isn't a water condensation/surface moisture 
 issue in damper climates.   Our enclosure manufacture just switched the 
 gasketing material, perhaps as a result of our whining, to something 
 different.   I've also looked at various alternatives for enclosures but 
 haven't found the right one yet.   I thought I had one which would have 
 been perfect, until I got the $50 per unit quote in quantity.  Some days I 
 miss the pipes, but it was time for them to go from a mostly marketing 
 perspective. 
 
 I've also looked at the conformal coating in the past, and the challenge 
 has been that the GPS module manufacture has told us this is a no-no since 
 it apparently changes the tuning of the GPS patch antenna.   I probably 
 need to re-evaluate this now that there's a different patch antenna on the 
 new modules - but I expect a similar answer.
 
 For the past couple of years, I've been trying to move to a module flat on 
 the board and then either using a PCB antenna like is used in devices like 
 cell phones, where the antenna's pattern is such that mounting it flat on 
 vertically oriented PCB results in a vertical pattern like the patch has. 
 This should solve the water getting on the antenna issue, as there won't 
 be anything directly below the seam to leak on.The holdup has been me 
 trying to possibly move to a module with a different GPS chipset at the 
 same time,

Re: [AFMUG] customer to English dictionary

[Adam Moffett]

Modem = a box with blinky lights.

Router = a box with blinky lights.

Hub = a box with blinky lights.

Switch = a box with blink lights.

You don't know what it is until they read the words on it and tell you 
it's the Linksy.



On 7/22/2020 6:47 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:


I think we need one.  For example,

Satellite = antenna (e.g. you put a satellite on my roof)

Cable = TV (e.g. where do I plug in the cable)

WiFi = Internet

Booster = range extender

Linsky = router (also Link System)

Slow as dialup = meaningless, nobody remembers dialup


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Re: [AFMUG] customer to English dictionary

[Adam Moffett]

At my prior employer, tech support encouraged the "poe = modem" 
terminology.  They just found it easier that way.  Overhearing it made 
me cringe internally though.


On 7/22/2020 6:57 PM, Nate Burke wrote:

Oh, other big one
POE = modem

On 7/22/2020 5:52 PM, Nate Burke wrote:

There is nothing in the way = at lest 1 tree limb, possibly a motorhome.
I can see the tower from the ground = Through a forest with 75' of 
height.


On 7/22/2020 5:47 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:


I think we need one.  For example,

Satellite = antenna (e.g. you put a satellite on my roof)

Cable = TV (e.g. where do I plug in the cable)

WiFi = Internet

Booster = range extender

Linsky = router (also Link System)

Slow as dialup = meaningless, nobody remembers dialup










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Re: [AFMUG] 450i/450m DFS false detect problem solved in later firmware?

[Forrest Christian (List Account)]

Actually it is a bare ceramic patch antenna.   Look at the top, you're
seeing the side view.

When I got the response last time from the vendor they said they don't
recommend it, and stated several reasons including if I remember correctly
something about changing the dielectric constant in some odd way, detuning
the antenna.   We didn't get much farther than that since they didn't have
a good answer about whether this was confined to certain types of coating
or what...

I haven't heard back from them on whether or not the latest modules or not
have the same issues, but I suspect they likely do.

On the other hand, it wouldn't surprise me to find that what they're
concerned about isn't going to change the tuning enough to actually make a
difference, and they're just being overly cautious.


On Wed, Jul 22, 2020 at 7:02 AM Chuck McCown  wrote:

> I would not expect a thin layer of conformal to bother the antenna in a
> significant way.  It might if you were putting it on a bare patch but that
> is not the case here.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Jul 22, 2020, at 6:53 AM, Mark Radabaugh  wrote:
>
> 
>
> I decided to try a conformal coating on the Syncbox to see if it would
> cause any problems with the GPS and avoid the corrosion issues we have
> seen.   We tested before and after the conformal coating with no detectable
> impairment to the GPS SNR and signal level.
>
> Only about 16 hours so far but throwing a pitcher of water on it and
> leaving the cover off all night in a rainstorm hasn’t seemed to bother it.
>   The picture didn’t catch the sync light but it’s happily blinking away.
> There is a lot of silicon grease on/around the RJ45 which looks a bit funny
> but I can’t conformal coat the jack itself for obvious reasons and I was
> intending to douse this one with water.  I’m sure SNR is bad right now with
> a blob of water on top of the antenna but it’s picking up enough to stay in
> lock.
>
> Going to leave it like this and give it a couple weeks to see how it holds
> up, but so far so good.
>
> Regarding loss of sync on 450 equipment - on further examination of the
> logs we are seeing issues with 450 equipment randomly losing sync or
> switching to free-run and back to sync-over-power across a number of
> injectors - CMM5, CTM-2, and Rackinjectors.   These issues started about
> the time we started deploying SyncInjectors but it’s really looking like
> that is coincidental.   Data is pointing toward something that changed with
> the firmware rather than the injector.   I have not had time yet to see if
> it included the older 450 versus 450i yet.
>
> Mark
>
> 
>
> On Jul 13, 2020, at 10:28 PM, Forrest Christian (List Account) <
> li...@packetflux.com> wrote:
>
> You bring up a few fair, and known, points.  I'll respond to at least a
> few of them:
>
> In relation to the water ingress, we've seen enough of these to know it's
> at least an occasional issue.  Especially in hotter climates, one thing
> we've seen is the gasket cracking in the enclosure.  I'm also not
> completely convinced this isn't a water condensation/surface moisture issue
> in damper climates.   Our enclosure manufacture just switched the gasketing
> material, perhaps as a result of our whining, to something different.
>  I've also looked at various alternatives for enclosures but haven't found
> the right one yet.   I thought I had one which would have been perfect,
> until I got the $50 per unit quote in quantity.  Some days I miss the
> pipes, but it was time for them to go from a mostly marketing perspective.
>
> I've also looked at the conformal coating in the past, and the challenge
> has been that the GPS module manufacture has told us this is a no-no since
> it apparently changes the tuning of the GPS patch antenna.   I probably
> need to re-evaluate this now that there's a different patch antenna on the
> new modules - but I expect a similar answer.
>
> For the past couple of years, I've been trying to move to a module flat on
> the board and then either using a PCB antenna like is used in devices like
> cell phones, where the antenna's pattern is such that mounting it flat on
> vertically oriented PCB results in a vertical pattern like the patch has.
> This should solve the water getting on the antenna issue, as there won't be
> anything directly below the seam to leak on.The holdup has been me
> trying to possibly move to a module with a different GPS chipset at the
> same time, hoping that this would be better than our existing module.
>  With all the warts (some of which will be described below), I'm finding
> that the modules/chipset that we're using is actually not that bad in
> comparison to some others.I even have had an eval of a 'timing grade'
> gps receiver here, which had more failures than the non-timing-grade ones
> we're using.  I have a few more to qualify, but look for this change in
> coming months assuming I can find a suitable module and antenna which works.
>
> In relation to the random ti

Re: [AFMUG] customer to English dictionary

[Ken Hohhof]

We installed Internet at a very small house the other day, as usual the Cat5
cable from the outside went through the basement, and the girlfriend had
said to put the POE and router by the TV, and to run the Cat5 cable up
through a hole in the adjacent closet and then through the baseboard, to
avoid a hole in the laminate flooring.  No problem.  But the boyfriend who
is the actual tenant told the installer to just put the router in the
basement.  Again, no problem.

 

But yesterday the girlfriend's son (maybe 18 years old) calls saying we just
installed satellite and he wanted to know where to connect the cable.  I
figured they had changed their mind and wanted the router upstairs, and he
was going to run the cable up through the hole in the floor, again no
problem because the installer had left a generous service loop in the
basement in case they changed their mind.

 

But no, he meant cable TV, not cable as in wire.  Like as in now that we
have a satellite, how do I get the cable channels on it?

 

I had to explain the difference between streaming and cable TV and satellite
TV.  I don't think I was entirely successful.  It seemed surprising from
someone his age, like as if he had asked for a quarter for the payphone or
something.

 

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of ch...@wbmfg.com
Sent: Wednesday, July 22, 2020 6:02 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] customer to English dictionary

 

System is down (reporting via email or FB but Netflix is buffering)

 

From: Nate Burke 

Sent: Wednesday, July 22, 2020 4:57 PM

To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] customer to English dictionary

 

Oh, other big one
POE = modem

On 7/22/2020 5:52 PM, Nate Burke wrote:

There is nothing in the way = at lest 1 tree limb, possibly a motorhome.  
I can see the tower from the ground = Through a forest with 75' of height.  

On 7/22/2020 5:47 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:

I think we need one.  For example,

 

Satellite = antenna (e.g. you put a satellite on my roof)

Cable = TV (e.g. where do I plug in the cable)

WiFi = Internet

Booster = range extender

Linsky = router (also Link System)

Slow as dialup = meaningless, nobody remembers dialup










 

  _  

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Re: [AFMUG] customer to English dictionary

[chuck]

System is down (reporting via email or FB but Netflix is buffering)

From: Nate Burke 
Sent: Wednesday, July 22, 2020 4:57 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] customer to English dictionary

Oh, other big one
POE = modem


On 7/22/2020 5:52 PM, Nate Burke wrote:

  There is nothing in the way = at lest 1 tree limb, possibly a motorhome.  
  I can see the tower from the ground = Through a forest with 75' of height.  


  On 7/22/2020 5:47 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:

I think we need one.  For example,

 

Satellite = antenna (e.g. you put a satellite on my roof)

Cable = TV (e.g. where do I plug in the cable)

WiFi = Internet

Booster = range extender

Linsky = router (also Link System)

Slow as dialup = meaningless, nobody remembers dialup


 



   






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Re: [AFMUG] customer to English dictionary

[Nate Burke]

Oh, other big one
POE = modem

On 7/22/2020 5:52 PM, Nate Burke wrote:

There is nothing in the way = at lest 1 tree limb, possibly a motorhome.
I can see the tower from the ground = Through a forest with 75' of 
height.


On 7/22/2020 5:47 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:


I think we need one.  For example,

Satellite = antenna (e.g. you put a satellite on my roof)

Cable = TV (e.g. where do I plug in the cable)

WiFi = Internet

Booster = range extender

Linsky = router (also Link System)

Slow as dialup = meaningless, nobody remembers dialup









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Re: [AFMUG] customer to English dictionary

[Nate Burke]

There is nothing in the way = at lest 1 tree limb, possibly a motorhome.
I can see the tower from the ground = Through a forest with 75' of height.

On 7/22/2020 5:47 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:


I think we need one.  For example,

Satellite = antenna (e.g. you put a satellite on my roof)

Cable = TV (e.g. where do I plug in the cable)

WiFi = Internet

Booster = range extender

Linsky = router (also Link System)

Slow as dialup = meaningless, nobody remembers dialup





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[AFMUG] customer to English dictionary

[Ken Hohhof]

I think we need one.  For example,

 

Satellite = antenna (e.g. you put a satellite on my roof)

Cable = TV (e.g. where do I plug in the cable)

WiFi = Internet

Booster = range extender

Linsky = router (also Link System)

Slow as dialup = meaningless, nobody remembers dialup

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Re: [AFMUG] cnMaestro not onboarding some AP's

[Steve Jones]

once we started onboarding in house and pushing configs from cnmaestro all
the weird connectivity issues went away.
Cnmaestro settings were always a pain in devices through firmwares.
onboarding via serial is flawless. I found in the pas, the ones that would
stop communicating if you go in, put the wrong credential in, save, reboot,
and then put the right connection in it would reestablish connectivity, i
think its a combination of password obfuscation and the encryption in the
onboarding getting out of whack

On Wed, Jul 22, 2020 at 11:05 AM Josh Luthman 
wrote:

> What version are the APs that aren't showing up on the onboard list?
> Older versions simply refuse anymore.  I know 3.5.6+ works, I'm not sure
> what version you absolutely have to have (pretty sure 2.6.2.1 was a
> requirement at one point, but that may have been moved up with time).
>
> If they're not on the onboard list on CNM, what are they saying on the
> radios themselves?
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
>
> On Tue, Jul 21, 2020 at 11:43 PM Timothy Steele 
> wrote:
>
>> not even making it to  cnMaestro same DNS server as the others but I
>> guess I can play with that
>>
>> On Wed, Jul 22, 2020 at 10:59 AM Nate Burke  wrote:
>>
>>> Are they not showing up in cnMaestro, or not onboarding?  I've had some
>>> AP's that for whatever reason don't like the DNS Server I put in, and never
>>> get to cnMaestro.  I change the DNS server and boom, they pop right in.
>>> Even though other AP's use the same DNS server without a problem.
>>>
>>> On 7/21/2020 9:14 PM, Timothy Steele wrote:
>>>
>>> cnMaestro not onboarding some AP's
>>>
>>> I have a WISP Client that is having issues with cnMaestro
>>>
>>> he has 100's have AP's and SM's added but like 5 AP's that will not add
>>>
>>> I have heard of an NTP issue for some but they have the same NTP info
>>>
>>> and these units are getting the time and date from GPS, not the NTP
>>>
>>> Does anyone know how I can get them working?
>>>
>>>
>>>
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>>>
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>>
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Re: [AFMUG] 450i/450m DFS false detect problem solved in later firmware?

[dave]

Amen!
I am not sure if I would shoot our techs.. Its hard to find those guys 
in my area.



On 7/22/20 11:24 AM, Adam Moffett wrote:

Isn't it refreshing when you get to do a nice, easy Cat5e riser cable?


On 7/22/2020 12:22 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
I can do a beautiful job of putting a shielded end on shielded 
cable.  The downside is it takes me 5 tries and 30+ minutes.  And 
some cuss words.


-Original Message-
From: AF  On Behalf Of Mark Radabaugh
Sent: Wednesday, July 22, 2020 11:10 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 450i/450m DFS false detect problem solved in 
later firmware?


It’s a shitty job on that cable, I’ll give you that.    It’s what the 
new(ish) NOC guy created.   We would shoot a field service tech (what 
we call our installers) if they made a end like that :-)


Mark


On Jul 22, 2020, at 11:59 AM, dave  wrote:

We can show U how to meet the milspec standard of the getting that 
jacket seated into the RJ45 connector.
If I found one like that on our network the tech that did it gets a 
retrain on making jumpers correctly LOL :)


That is awesome surface sealant!







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Re: [AFMUG] OT fun

[Ken Hohhof]

It's amazing the stupid crap people will believe these days.  You assume
they are kidding around but they actually believe it.  It's like when
Dilbert convinced the gullible marketing guy that he reprogrammed his DNA
over the LAN.
https://dilbert.com/search_results?terms=reprogrammed+dna


-Original Message-
From: AF  On Behalf Of Seth Mattinen
Sent: Wednesday, July 22, 2020 12:41 PM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT fun

On 7/22/20 10:16, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
> But how will it be administered...

5G towers

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Re: [AFMUG] OT bored

[chuck]

Wow, details?  I worry about that every time I get light headed.  

From: Mike Hammett 
Sent: Wednesday, July 22, 2020 12:50 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT bored

I must have missed Jaime's problem.

I had a heart attack last week.




-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions

Midwest Internet Exchange

The Brothers WISP








From: ch...@wbmfg.com
To: af@af.afmug.com
Sent: Wednesday, July 22, 2020 11:00:53 AM
Subject: [AFMUG] OT bored


Feeling empathy for Jaime.  I jumped from the top hand rail of my scissors lift 
to floor of the basket a few days ago.  Plumbing up some new natural gas pipes 
to my new natural gas /electric steam cleaner.  Now my herniated disks are all 
messed up again.  So can’t do anything.  Bored out of my gourd.  I have finally 
proven to my self that I just cannot jump down from things anymore.  The most 
crazy painful back events came from 1) Jumping off of a 6’ stone wall about 6 
years ago.  2) Jumping off the back of a semi flat bed about a  year ago.  And 
now this.  So, as much as I want to act 20 years old, I guess jumping off or 
down is something that is not on the menu anymore.  Hopefully skiing is not 
going to start to become a problem.  

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Re: [AFMUG] OT bored

[Jaime Solorza]

What?  Hope you are kidding...

On Wed, Jul 22, 2020, 12:51 PM Mike Hammett  wrote:

> I must have missed Jaime's problem.
>
> I had a heart attack last week.
>
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Midwest Internet Exchange 
> 
> 
> 
> The Brothers WISP 
> 
>
>
> 
> --
> *From: *ch...@wbmfg.com
> *To: *af@af.afmug.com
> *Sent: *Wednesday, July 22, 2020 11:00:53 AM
> *Subject: *[AFMUG] OT bored
>
> Feeling empathy for Jaime.  I jumped from the top hand rail of my scissors
> lift to floor of the basket a few days ago.  Plumbing up some new natural
> gas pipes to my new natural gas /electric steam cleaner.  Now my herniated
> disks are all messed up again.  So can’t do anything.  Bored out of my
> gourd.  I have finally proven to my self that I just cannot jump down from
> things anymore.  The most crazy painful back events came from 1) Jumping
> off of a 6’ stone wall about 6 years ago.  2) Jumping off the back of a
> semi flat bed about a  year ago.  And now this.  So, as much as I want to
> act 20 years old, I guess jumping off or down is something that is not on
> the menu anymore.  Hopefully skiing is not going to start to become a
> problem.
>
> --
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> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
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Re: [AFMUG] Ansible

[Mike Hammett]

My friend Greg does. Then again, he started working for RedHat doing Ansible 
stuff a few months ago. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Adam Moffett"  
To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group"  
Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2020 10:33:34 AM 
Subject: [AFMUG] Ansible 

Anyone here use Ansible Tower? 

I have a demo scheduled with Redhat, but it seems real spendy. Should I 
bother burning my time on the demo? 


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Re: [AFMUG] OT bored

[Mike Hammett]

I must have missed Jaime's problem. 

I had a heart attack last week. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: ch...@wbmfg.com 
To: af@af.afmug.com 
Sent: Wednesday, July 22, 2020 11:00:53 AM 
Subject: [AFMUG] OT bored 




Feeling empathy for Jaime. I jumped from the top hand rail of my scissors lift 
to floor of the basket a few days ago. Plumbing up some new natural gas pipes 
to my new natural gas /electric steam cleaner. Now my herniated disks are all 
messed up again. So can’t do anything. Bored out of my gourd. I have finally 
proven to my self that I just cannot jump down from things anymore. The most 
crazy painful back events came from 1) Jumping off of a 6’ stone wall about 6 
years ago. 2) Jumping off the back of a semi flat bed about a year ago. And now 
this. So, as much as I want to act 20 years old, I guess jumping off or down is 
something that is not on the menu anymore. Hopefully skiing is not going to 
start to become a problem. 
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Re: [AFMUG] OT fun

[Seth Mattinen]

On 7/22/20 10:16, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:

But how will it be administered...


5G towers

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Re: [AFMUG] OT bored

[Robert Andrews]

Kinda like Coronavirus

On 07/22/2020 09:41 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
Well, the scissors lift hand rail is more like 3-4’ tall.  The jumping 
thing is a delayed reaction.  It takes a day or two before it puts me on 
the floor.  If it was an immediate pain I might learn faster.

*From:* Josh Luthman
*Sent:* Wednesday, July 22, 2020 10:05 AM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT bored
Have you tried not jumping off things 6+ feet?
Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373
On Wed, Jul 22, 2020 at 12:01 PM  wrote:

Feeling empathy for Jaime.  I jumped from the top hand rail of my
scissors lift to floor of the basket a few days ago.  Plumbing up
some new natural gas pipes to my new natural gas /electric steam
cleaner.  Now my herniated disks are all messed up again.  So can’t
do anything. Bored out of my gourd.  I have finally proven to my
self that I just cannot jump down from things anymore.  The most
crazy painful back events came from 1) Jumping off of a 6’ stone
wall about 6 years ago.  2) Jumping off the back of a semi flat bed
about a  year ago.  And now this.  So, as much as I want to act 20
years old, I guess jumping off or down is something that is not on
the menu anymore.  Hopefully skiing is not going to start to become
a problem.
-- 
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AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com


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Re: [AFMUG] OT bored

[chuck]

You can be Elvis.  I am nowhere as cool as you are.  

From: Jaime Solorza 
Sent: Wednesday, July 22, 2020 10:27 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT bored

I am afraid to ask whom is whom...

On Wed, Jul 22, 2020, 10:13 AM Ken Hohhof  wrote:

  You and Jaime can be roommates.  Like Elvis and Salmon Rushdie.







  From: AF  On Behalf Of ch...@wbmfg.com
  Sent: Wednesday, July 22, 2020 11:01 AM
  To: af@af.afmug.com
  Subject: [AFMUG] OT bored



  Feeling empathy for Jaime.  I jumped from the top hand rail of my scissors 
lift to floor of the basket a few days ago.  Plumbing up some new natural gas 
pipes to my new natural gas /electric steam cleaner.  Now my herniated disks 
are all messed up again.  So can’t do anything.  Bored out of my gourd.  I have 
finally proven to my self that I just cannot jump down from things anymore.  
The most crazy painful back events came from 1) Jumping off of a 6’ stone wall 
about 6 years ago.  2) Jumping off the back of a semi flat bed about a  year 
ago.  And now this.  So, as much as I want to act 20 years old, I guess jumping 
off or down is something that is not on the menu anymore.  Hopefully skiing is 
not going to start to become a problem.  

  -- 
  AF mailing list
  AF@af.afmug.com
  http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com




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Re: [AFMUG] OT bored

[chuck]

Hey, Medicare!!!  Congrats on passing that finish line.  I am not there yet.  

From: Jaime Solorza 
Sent: Wednesday, July 22, 2020 10:26 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT bored

Wow . I understand youI got my ass chewed out by daughter for logging into 
laptop to monitor Cozy Ewon as techs realigned cellular antennathe hardest 
part is the inactivityI stay busy...love to be busy ...plus we walk at 
night and hike on weekends.. 
I feel your back pain the day after surgery, I was sleeping facedown all 
night ..tried to get up to hit the head, bam..instant Wham-O hip pain...I 
actually teared up and surprised my wife with contorted facelayed down for 
a few until sharp pain subsided took Aleve...hot shower and back to 
bed...the Aleve knocked me out took two days for back pain to go away...
I hate to sleep facedown...today I am resting face up on pillows but keeping 
head down
I keep climbing in a vain attempt to deny I am hitting 65 in November...I am 
happy when I am up there working
I got offered an IT desk job but I am not interestedI love what I do ..
Rest, rest , rest Chuck...God bless

On Wed, Jul 22, 2020, 10:06 AM Josh Luthman  wrote:

  Have you tried not jumping off things 6+ feet?


  Josh Luthman
  Office: 937-552-2340
  Direct: 937-552-2343
  1100 Wayne St
  Suite 1337
  Troy, OH 45373


  On Wed, Jul 22, 2020 at 12:01 PM  wrote:

Feeling empathy for Jaime.  I jumped from the top hand rail of my scissors 
lift to floor of the basket a few days ago.  Plumbing up some new natural gas 
pipes to my new natural gas /electric steam cleaner.  Now my herniated disks 
are all messed up again.  So can’t do anything.  Bored out of my gourd.  I have 
finally proven to my self that I just cannot jump down from things anymore.  
The most crazy painful back events came from 1) Jumping off of a 6’ stone wall 
about 6 years ago.  2) Jumping off the back of a semi flat bed about a  year 
ago.  And now this.  So, as much as I want to act 20 years old, I guess jumping 
off or down is something that is not on the menu anymore.  Hopefully skiing is 
not going to start to become a problem.  
-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

  -- 
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  http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com




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Re: [AFMUG] OT bored

[chuck]

Hopefully there is no fatwa.  

From: Ken Hohhof 
Sent: Wednesday, July 22, 2020 10:13 AM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT bored

You and Jaime can be roommates.  Like Elvis and Salmon Rushdie.

 



 

From: AF  On Behalf Of ch...@wbmfg.com
Sent: Wednesday, July 22, 2020 11:01 AM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: [AFMUG] OT bored

 

Feeling empathy for Jaime.  I jumped from the top hand rail of my scissors lift 
to floor of the basket a few days ago.  Plumbing up some new natural gas pipes 
to my new natural gas /electric steam cleaner.  Now my herniated disks are all 
messed up again.  So can’t do anything.  Bored out of my gourd.  I have finally 
proven to my self that I just cannot jump down from things anymore.  The most 
crazy painful back events came from 1) Jumping off of a 6’ stone wall about 6 
years ago.  2) Jumping off the back of a semi flat bed about a  year ago.  And 
now this.  So, as much as I want to act 20 years old, I guess jumping off or 
down is something that is not on the menu anymore.  Hopefully skiing is not 
going to start to become a problem.  




-- 
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AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
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Re: [AFMUG] OT bored

[chuck]

Well, the scissors lift hand rail is more like 3-4’ tall.  The jumping thing is 
a delayed reaction.  It takes a day or two before it puts me on the floor.  If 
it was an immediate pain I might learn faster.  

From: Josh Luthman 
Sent: Wednesday, July 22, 2020 10:05 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT bored

Have you tried not jumping off things 6+ feet?


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373


On Wed, Jul 22, 2020 at 12:01 PM  wrote:

  Feeling empathy for Jaime.  I jumped from the top hand rail of my scissors 
lift to floor of the basket a few days ago.  Plumbing up some new natural gas 
pipes to my new natural gas /electric steam cleaner.  Now my herniated disks 
are all messed up again.  So can’t do anything.  Bored out of my gourd.  I have 
finally proven to my self that I just cannot jump down from things anymore.  
The most crazy painful back events came from 1) Jumping off of a 6’ stone wall 
about 6 years ago.  2) Jumping off the back of a semi flat bed about a  year 
ago.  And now this.  So, as much as I want to act 20 years old, I guess jumping 
off or down is something that is not on the menu anymore.  Hopefully skiing is 
not going to start to become a problem.  
  -- 
  AF mailing list
  AF@af.afmug.com
  http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com




-- 
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Re: [AFMUG] OT bored

[Jaime Solorza]

Wow . I understand youI got my ass chewed out by daughter for logging
into laptop to monitor Cozy Ewon as techs realigned cellular antennathe
hardest part is the inactivityI stay busy...love to be busy ...plus we
walk at night and hike on weekends..
I feel your back pain the day after surgery, I was sleeping facedown
all night ..tried to get up to hit the head, bam..instant Wham-O hip
pain...I actually teared up and surprised my wife with contorted
facelayed down for a few until sharp pain subsided took Aleve...hot
shower and back to bed...the Aleve knocked me out took two days for
back pain to go away...
I hate to sleep facedown...today I am resting face up on pillows but
keeping head down
I keep climbing in a vain attempt to deny I am hitting 65 in November...I
am happy when I am up there working
I got offered an IT desk job but I am not interestedI love what I do ..
Rest, rest , rest Chuck...God bless

On Wed, Jul 22, 2020, 10:06 AM Josh Luthman 
wrote:

> Have you tried not jumping off things 6+ feet?
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
>
> On Wed, Jul 22, 2020 at 12:01 PM  wrote:
>
>> Feeling empathy for Jaime.  I jumped from the top hand rail of my
>> scissors lift to floor of the basket a few days ago.  Plumbing up some new
>> natural gas pipes to my new natural gas /electric steam cleaner.  Now my
>> herniated disks are all messed up again.  So can’t do anything.  Bored out
>> of my gourd.  I have finally proven to my self that I just cannot jump down
>> from things anymore.  The most crazy painful back events came from 1)
>> Jumping off of a 6’ stone wall about 6 years ago.  2) Jumping off the back
>> of a semi flat bed about a  year ago.  And now this.  So, as much as I want
>> to act 20 years old, I guess jumping off or down is something that is not
>> on the menu anymore.  Hopefully skiing is not going to start to become a
>> problem.
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
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AF@af.afmug.com
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Re: [AFMUG] 450i/450m DFS false detect problem solved in later firmware?

[Adam Moffett]

Isn't it refreshing when you get to do a nice, easy Cat5e riser cable?


On 7/22/2020 12:22 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:

I can do a beautiful job of putting a shielded end on shielded cable.  The 
downside is it takes me 5 tries and 30+ minutes.  And some cuss words.

-Original Message-
From: AF  On Behalf Of Mark Radabaugh
Sent: Wednesday, July 22, 2020 11:10 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 450i/450m DFS false detect problem solved in later 
firmware?

It’s a shitty job on that cable, I’ll give you that.It’s what the new(ish) 
NOC guy created.   We would shoot a field service tech (what we call our 
installers) if they made a end like that :-)

Mark


On Jul 22, 2020, at 11:59 AM, dave  wrote:

We can show U how to meet the milspec standard of the getting that jacket 
seated into the RJ45 connector.
If I found one like that on our network the tech that did it gets a retrain on 
making jumpers correctly LOL :)

That is awesome surface sealant!





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Re: [AFMUG] 450i/450m DFS false detect problem solved in later firmware?

[Ken Hohhof]

I can do a beautiful job of putting a shielded end on shielded cable.  The 
downside is it takes me 5 tries and 30+ minutes.  And some cuss words.

-Original Message-
From: AF  On Behalf Of Mark Radabaugh
Sent: Wednesday, July 22, 2020 11:10 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 450i/450m DFS false detect problem solved in later 
firmware?

It’s a shitty job on that cable, I’ll give you that.It’s what the new(ish) 
NOC guy created.   We would shoot a field service tech (what we call our 
installers) if they made a end like that :-)

Mark

> On Jul 22, 2020, at 11:59 AM, dave  wrote:
> 
> We can show U how to meet the milspec standard of the getting that jacket 
> seated into the RJ45 connector. 
> If I found one like that on our network the tech that did it gets a retrain 
> on making jumpers correctly LOL :)
> 
> That is awesome surface sealant!
> 


-- 
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AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com



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Re: [AFMUG] OT bored

[Ken Hohhof]

You and Jaime can be roommates.  Like Elvis and Salmon Rushdie.

 



 

From: AF  On Behalf Of ch...@wbmfg.com
Sent: Wednesday, July 22, 2020 11:01 AM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: [AFMUG] OT bored

 

Feeling empathy for Jaime.  I jumped from the top hand rail of my scissors lift 
to floor of the basket a few days ago.  Plumbing up some new natural gas pipes 
to my new natural gas /electric steam cleaner.  Now my herniated disks are all 
messed up again.  So can’t do anything.  Bored out of my gourd.  I have finally 
proven to my self that I just cannot jump down from things anymore.  The most 
crazy painful back events came from 1) Jumping off of a 6’ stone wall about 6 
years ago.  2) Jumping off the back of a semi flat bed about a  year ago.  And 
now this.  So, as much as I want to act 20 years old, I guess jumping off or 
down is something that is not on the menu anymore.  Hopefully skiing is not 
going to start to become a problem.  

-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] 450i/450m DFS false detect problem solved in later firmware?

[Mark Radabaugh]

It’s a shitty job on that cable, I’ll give you that.It’s what the new(ish) 
NOC guy created.   We would shoot a field service tech (what we call our 
installers) if they made a end like that :-)

Mark

> On Jul 22, 2020, at 11:59 AM, dave  wrote:
> 
> We can show U how to meet the milspec standard of the getting that jacket 
> seated into the RJ45 connector. 
> If I found one like that on our network the tech that did it gets a retrain 
> on making jumpers correctly LOL :)
> 
> That is awesome surface sealant!
> 


-- 
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Re: [AFMUG] OT bored

[Josh Luthman]

Have you tried not jumping off things 6+ feet?

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373


On Wed, Jul 22, 2020 at 12:01 PM  wrote:

> Feeling empathy for Jaime.  I jumped from the top hand rail of my scissors
> lift to floor of the basket a few days ago.  Plumbing up some new natural
> gas pipes to my new natural gas /electric steam cleaner.  Now my herniated
> disks are all messed up again.  So can’t do anything.  Bored out of my
> gourd.  I have finally proven to my self that I just cannot jump down from
> things anymore.  The most crazy painful back events came from 1) Jumping
> off of a 6’ stone wall about 6 years ago.  2) Jumping off the back of a
> semi flat bed about a  year ago.  And now this.  So, as much as I want to
> act 20 years old, I guess jumping off or down is something that is not on
> the menu anymore.  Hopefully skiing is not going to start to become a
> problem.
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
-- 
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Re: [AFMUG] cnMaestro not onboarding some AP's

[Josh Luthman]

What version are the APs that aren't showing up on the onboard list?  Older
versions simply refuse anymore.  I know 3.5.6+ works, I'm not sure what
version you absolutely have to have (pretty sure 2.6.2.1 was a requirement
at one point, but that may have been moved up with time).

If they're not on the onboard list on CNM, what are they saying on the
radios themselves?

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373


On Tue, Jul 21, 2020 at 11:43 PM Timothy Steele 
wrote:

> not even making it to  cnMaestro same DNS server as the others but I guess
> I can play with that
>
> On Wed, Jul 22, 2020 at 10:59 AM Nate Burke  wrote:
>
>> Are they not showing up in cnMaestro, or not onboarding?  I've had some
>> AP's that for whatever reason don't like the DNS Server I put in, and never
>> get to cnMaestro.  I change the DNS server and boom, they pop right in.
>> Even though other AP's use the same DNS server without a problem.
>>
>> On 7/21/2020 9:14 PM, Timothy Steele wrote:
>>
>> cnMaestro not onboarding some AP's
>>
>> I have a WISP Client that is having issues with cnMaestro
>>
>> he has 100's have AP's and SM's added but like 5 AP's that will not add
>>
>> I have heard of an NTP issue for some but they have the same NTP info
>>
>> and these units are getting the time and date from GPS, not the NTP
>>
>> Does anyone know how I can get them working?
>>
>>
>>
>> --
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>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
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Re: [AFMUG] Simple mikrotik question at this early hour

[Josh Luthman]

Mmm that terrible picture reduced to 300kb.

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373


On Tue, Jul 21, 2020 at 6:12 PM Ken Hohhof  wrote:

> If you were one of my customers, you would take a photo of the computer
> screen with your cellphone and then text it to me.
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Nate Burke
> *Sent:* Tuesday, July 21, 2020 12:52 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Simple mikrotik question at this early hour
>
>
>
> Are you talking about the traceroute window inside of winbox, or
> traceroute from the terminal line?
>
> You can resize the columns in the traceroute window just fine.  Is there a
> way to copy the traceroute window as text?
>
> On 7/21/2020 12:38 PM, dave wrote:
>
> +1
> Same here
>
>
> On 7/21/20 10:02 AM, Lewis Bergman wrote:
>
> Same here. You can drag the column header. If you right click on the
> headers you can add and remove columns you aren't interested in, etc.
>
>
>
> On Tue, Jul 21, 2020 at 10:01 AM Bill Prince  wrote:
>
> Winbox I presume? Maybe your version of Winbox is too old? I'm using
> Winbox 6.46.2, and you can resize the terminal window any which way.
>
>
> bp
> 
>
> On 7/21/2020 7:55 AM, Nate Burke wrote:
> > I'm having a brain fart at this early hour.  Is there a way to resize
> > the terminal window so that it will give you more horizontal column
> > space?  I'm running a traceroute with DNS lookups from the command
> > line, and it cuts off half the name because the column is too narrow.
> >
> >
> >
>
> --
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> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
>
>
>
> --
>
> Lewis Bergman
>
> 325-439-0533 Cell
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
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>
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[AFMUG] OT bored

[chuck]

Feeling empathy for Jaime.  I jumped from the top hand rail of my scissors lift 
to floor of the basket a few days ago.  Plumbing up some new natural gas pipes 
to my new natural gas /electric steam cleaner.  Now my herniated disks are all 
messed up again.  So can’t do anything.  Bored out of my gourd.  I have finally 
proven to my self that I just cannot jump down from things anymore.  The most 
crazy painful back events came from 1) Jumping off of a 6’ stone wall about 6 
years ago.  2) Jumping off the back of a semi flat bed about a  year ago.  And 
now this.  So, as much as I want to act 20 years old, I guess jumping off or 
down is something that is not on the menu anymore.  Hopefully skiing is not 
going to start to become a problem.  -- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] 450i/450m DFS false detect problem solved in later firmware?

[Mark Radabaugh]

This one was Chemtronics "Kon Form" SR. Came from Allied Electronics:



Mark

> On Jul 22, 2020, at 10:01 AM, Ken Hohhof  wrote:
> 
> Out of curiosity, what conformal coating did you use?
>  
> Way back in the 1975 timeframe I remember using a spray-on urethane product 
> from a company named Humiseal or maybe that was the product name, I don’t 
> know if they still exist.  I remember having to mask off the edge connector.  
> I don’t remember why I was doing this, since I was designing inhouse test 
> equipment for a company that made TV sets.
>  
> I do remember cost was such a big deal the products (not our test equipment) 
> used single-sided paper based phenolic PCBs and the leads weren’t trimmed on 
> the bottom side of the board, they stuck out like a porcupine.  PCB layouts 
> left as much copper on the board as possible to save on ferric chloride 
> etching solution.  We tested everything literally hot off the production line 
> to minimize rework cost if a problem was found.
>  
>  
> From: AF  On Behalf Of Mark Radabaugh
> Sent: Wednesday, July 22, 2020 7:53 AM
> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 450i/450m DFS false detect problem solved in later 
> firmware?
>  
>  
> I decided to try a conformal coating on the Syncbox to see if it would cause 
> any problems with the GPS and avoid the corrosion issues we have seen.   We 
> tested before and after the conformal coating with no detectable impairment 
> to the GPS SNR and signal level.   
>  
> Only about 16 hours so far but throwing a pitcher of water on it and leaving 
> the cover off all night in a rainstorm hasn’t seemed to bother it.   The 
> picture didn’t catch the sync light but it’s happily blinking away.  There is 
> a lot of silicon grease on/around the RJ45 which looks a bit funny but I 
> can’t conformal coat the jack itself for obvious reasons and I was intending 
> to douse this one with water.  I’m sure SNR is bad right now with a blob of 
> water on top of the antenna but it’s picking up enough to stay in lock.
>  
> Going to leave it like this and give it a couple weeks to see how it holds 
> up, but so far so good.  
>  
> Regarding loss of sync on 450 equipment - on further examination of the logs 
> we are seeing issues with 450 equipment randomly losing sync or switching to 
> free-run and back to sync-over-power across a number of injectors - CMM5, 
> CTM-2, and Rackinjectors.   These issues started about the time we started 
> deploying SyncInjectors but it’s really looking like that is coincidental.   
> Data is pointing toward something that changed with the firmware rather than 
> the injector.   I have not had time yet to see if it included the older 450 
> versus 450i yet.
>  
> Mark
>  
> 
> 
> 
>> On Jul 13, 2020, at 10:28 PM, Forrest Christian (List Account) 
>> mailto:li...@packetflux.com>> wrote:
>>  
>> You bring up a few fair, and known, points.  I'll respond to at least a few 
>> of them:
>>  
>> In relation to the water ingress, we've seen enough of these to know it's at 
>> least an occasional issue.  Especially in hotter climates, one thing we've 
>> seen is the gasket cracking in the enclosure.  I'm also not completely 
>> convinced this isn't a water condensation/surface moisture issue in damper 
>> climates.   Our enclosure manufacture just switched the gasketing material, 
>> perhaps as a result of our whining, to something different.   I've also 
>> looked at various alternatives for enclosures but haven't found the right 
>> one yet.   I thought I had one which would have been perfect, until I got 
>> the $50 per unit quote in quantity.  Some days I miss the pipes, but it was 
>> time for them to go from a mostly marketing perspective. 
>>  
>> I've also looked at the conformal coating in the past, and the challenge has 
>> been that the GPS module manufacture has told us this is a no-no since it 
>> apparently changes the tuning of the GPS patch antenna.   I probably need to 
>> re-evaluate this now that there's a different patch antenna on the new 
>> modules - but I expect a similar answer.
>>  
>> For the past couple of years, I've been trying to move to a module flat on 
>> the board and then either using a PCB antenna like is used in devices like 
>> cell phones, where the antenna's pattern is such that mounting it flat on 
>> vertically oriented PCB results in a vertical pattern like the patch has. 
>> This should solve the water getting on the antenna issue, as there won't be 
>> anything directly below the seam to leak on.The holdup has been me 
>> trying to possibly move to a module with a different GPS chipset at the same 
>> time, hoping that this would be better than our existing module.   With all 
>> the warts (some of which will be described below), I'm finding that the 
>> modules/chipset that we're using is actually not that bad in comparison to 
>> some others.I even have had an eval of a 'timing grade' gps receiver 
>> here, which had mor

Re: [AFMUG] 450i/450m DFS false detect problem solved in later firmware?

[Chuck McCown]

I would not expect a thin layer of conformal to bother the antenna in a 
significant way.  It might if you were putting it on a bare patch but that is 
not the case here.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jul 22, 2020, at 6:53 AM, Mark Radabaugh  wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> I decided to try a conformal coating on the Syncbox to see if it would cause 
> any problems with the GPS and avoid the corrosion issues we have seen.   We 
> tested before and after the conformal coating with no detectable impairment 
> to the GPS SNR and signal level.   
> 
> Only about 16 hours so far but throwing a pitcher of water on it and leaving 
> the cover off all night in a rainstorm hasn’t seemed to bother it.   The 
> picture didn’t catch the sync light but it’s happily blinking away.  There is 
> a lot of silicon grease on/around the RJ45 which looks a bit funny but I 
> can’t conformal coat the jack itself for obvious reasons and I was intending 
> to douse this one with water.  I’m sure SNR is bad right now with a blob of 
> water on top of the antenna but it’s picking up enough to stay in lock.
> 
> Going to leave it like this and give it a couple weeks to see how it holds 
> up, but so far so good.  
> 
> Regarding loss of sync on 450 equipment - on further examination of the logs 
> we are seeing issues with 450 equipment randomly losing sync or switching to 
> free-run and back to sync-over-power across a number of injectors - CMM5, 
> CTM-2, and Rackinjectors.   These issues started about the time we started 
> deploying SyncInjectors but it’s really looking like that is coincidental.   
> Data is pointing toward something that changed with the firmware rather than 
> the injector.   I have not had time yet to see if it included the older 450 
> versus 450i yet.
> 
> Mark
> 
> 
> 
>> On Jul 13, 2020, at 10:28 PM, Forrest Christian (List Account) 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> You bring up a few fair, and known, points.  I'll respond to at least a few 
>> of them:
>> 
>> In relation to the water ingress, we've seen enough of these to know it's at 
>> least an occasional issue.  Especially in hotter climates, one thing we've 
>> seen is the gasket cracking in the enclosure.  I'm also not completely 
>> convinced this isn't a water condensation/surface moisture issue in damper 
>> climates.   Our enclosure manufacture just switched the gasketing material, 
>> perhaps as a result of our whining, to something different.   I've also 
>> looked at various alternatives for enclosures but haven't found the right 
>> one yet.   I thought I had one which would have been perfect, until I got 
>> the $50 per unit quote in quantity.  Some days I miss the pipes, but it was 
>> time for them to go from a mostly marketing perspective. 
>> 
>> I've also looked at the conformal coating in the past, and the challenge has 
>> been that the GPS module manufacture has told us this is a no-no since it 
>> apparently changes the tuning of the GPS patch antenna.   I probably need to 
>> re-evaluate this now that there's a different patch antenna on the new 
>> modules - but I expect a similar answer.
>> 
>> For the past couple of years, I've been trying to move to a module flat on 
>> the board and then either using a PCB antenna like is used in devices like 
>> cell phones, where the antenna's pattern is such that mounting it flat on 
>> vertically oriented PCB results in a vertical pattern like the patch has. 
>> This should solve the water getting on the antenna issue, as there won't be 
>> anything directly below the seam to leak on.The holdup has been me 
>> trying to possibly move to a module with a different GPS chipset at the same 
>> time, hoping that this would be better than our existing module.   With all 
>> the warts (some of which will be described below), I'm finding that the 
>> modules/chipset that we're using is actually not that bad in comparison to 
>> some others.I even have had an eval of a 'timing grade' gps receiver 
>> here, which had more failures than the non-timing-grade ones we're using.  I 
>> have a few more to qualify, but look for this change in coming months 
>> assuming I can find a suitable module and antenna which works.
>> 
>> In relation to the random timing loss of lock, I am not going to disagree 
>> with you at all.   I suspect some of this might be leftovers from the 
>> GPS+GLONASS issue from the end of the year which seems to have resolved 
>> itself for the most part, but I know enough about that bug that it wouldn't 
>> shock me to find that there are still lingering issues.   The problem here 
>> is that although it 'feels' like there might be more issues, I don't have 
>> quantifiable numbers.With all of that in mind, I'm currently working on 
>> in-field upgrade procedures for upgrading the firmware for these modules to 
>> get them the GLONASS fix.  This seems to be a more troublesome problem than 
>> it should be, since it's just an issue of getting the right firmware - the 
>> problem being that the