Re: [AFMUG] Silos

[Steve Jones]

When we went on a harvestore I read about them, they are beasts. And at one
point a rep had to inspect foundation before election, they were mad crazy
expensive to build.

On Wed, Oct 28, 2020, 9:45 PM Mathew Howard  wrote:

> Most of the silos around here aren't used anymore and sit empty (both
> cement and harvestore)... I don't think if I've ever seen, or even heard
> of, a collapsed Harvestore that didn't have a tornado involved.
>
> On Tue, Oct 27, 2020, 8:52 PM Ken Hohhof  wrote:
>
>> My understanding was the concrete silos with the bands are plenty strong,
>> empty or full, but that the silage in a Harvestore is structural and they
>> are weak when empty.
>>
>>
>>
>> Watch this video:
>>
>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nljxk1auzHQ
>>
>>
>>
>> There are also videos like this one, and I just don’t see how you mount
>> antennas, especially licensed dishes, at the top of a Harvestore.  He also
>> mentions the bags they inflate to replace the silage as they empty the silo
>> to prevent a collapse.
>>
>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bdsm4BdM5Gs
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *David Coudron
>> *Sent:* Tuesday, October 27, 2020 7:48 PM
>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Silos
>>
>>
>>
>> While we certainly haven’t done the engineering work on it, I think that
>> most cement stave silos are never really full.   We had one on the dairy
>> farm when we were kids.   Even when we fill it all the way up the top is
>> never really full since you need enough room to operate the silo
>> unloader.   So the top 3-4 ft, maybe more is empty.   And, you unload top
>> down in a cement stave silo, so after the first day of use, the silo is
>> already getting emptier on the top.   So I think there never is really much
>> added strength on the top rows of staves where we would mount from the silo
>> being full.
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>>
>>
>> David Coudron
>>
>> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Matt Hoppes
>> *Sent:* Tuesday, October 27, 2020 7:35 PM
>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Silos
>>
>>
>>
>> Somewhat related: is it safe to mount a bunch of equipment on an empt
>> silo?
>>
>>
>>
>> On Oct 27, 2020, at 8:08 PM, David Coudron 
>> wrote:
>>
>> 
>>
>> Yes,
>>
>>
>>
>> There was  recent thread we started about cement stave silos that folks
>> really helped us out on.For Harvestor silos, we usually brace the upper
>> rail to make it sturdier.   Biggest thing is we don’t mount very high on
>> those.   We keep the radios no higher than the top railing.   For the
>> cement stave silos, here is what folks came up with, we are just now making
>> the same brackets.  Picture attached:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *David Coudron*
>>
>> david.coud...@advantenon.com  |  *Mobile: *612-991-7474
>>
>>
>>
>> *Advantenon, Inc.  *
>>
>> i...@advantenon.com  |  3500 Vicksburg Lane N, Suite 315, Plymouth, MN
>> 55447  |  www.advantenon.com  |  *Phone:* 800-704-4720  |  *Local: *
>> 612-454-1545
>>
>>
>>
>> 
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Jeremy Grip
>> *Sent:* Tuesday, October 27, 2020 3:42 PM
>> *To:* 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
>> *Subject:* [AFMUG] Silos
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> I know I’ve seen posts in the dimly remembered past about approaches to
>> mounting gear to silos, but…
>>
>>
>>
>> Looking for approaches to mounting radios, antennas (3.65 and licensed
>> backhaul--Cambium/Ceragon, 1-2ft dishes) to both concrete and blue
>> harvestore silos. Can’t believe how flimsy the guardrails on top of those
>> harvestores are.
>>
>>
>>
>> Jeremy Grip
>>
>> North Branch Networks
>>
>> 
>>
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
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Re: [AFMUG] Silos

[Mathew Howard]

Most of the silos around here aren't used anymore and sit empty (both
cement and harvestore)... I don't think if I've ever seen, or even heard
of, a collapsed Harvestore that didn't have a tornado involved.

On Tue, Oct 27, 2020, 8:52 PM Ken Hohhof  wrote:

> My understanding was the concrete silos with the bands are plenty strong,
> empty or full, but that the silage in a Harvestore is structural and they
> are weak when empty.
>
>
>
> Watch this video:
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nljxk1auzHQ
>
>
>
> There are also videos like this one, and I just don’t see how you mount
> antennas, especially licensed dishes, at the top of a Harvestore.  He also
> mentions the bags they inflate to replace the silage as they empty the silo
> to prevent a collapse.
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bdsm4BdM5Gs
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *David Coudron
> *Sent:* Tuesday, October 27, 2020 7:48 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Silos
>
>
>
> While we certainly haven’t done the engineering work on it, I think that
> most cement stave silos are never really full.   We had one on the dairy
> farm when we were kids.   Even when we fill it all the way up the top is
> never really full since you need enough room to operate the silo
> unloader.   So the top 3-4 ft, maybe more is empty.   And, you unload top
> down in a cement stave silo, so after the first day of use, the silo is
> already getting emptier on the top.   So I think there never is really much
> added strength on the top rows of staves where we would mount from the silo
> being full.
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
>
>
> David Coudron
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Matt Hoppes
> *Sent:* Tuesday, October 27, 2020 7:35 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Silos
>
>
>
> Somewhat related: is it safe to mount a bunch of equipment on an empt silo?
>
>
>
> On Oct 27, 2020, at 8:08 PM, David Coudron 
> wrote:
>
> 
>
> Yes,
>
>
>
> There was  recent thread we started about cement stave silos that folks
> really helped us out on.For Harvestor silos, we usually brace the upper
> rail to make it sturdier.   Biggest thing is we don’t mount very high on
> those.   We keep the radios no higher than the top railing.   For the
> cement stave silos, here is what folks came up with, we are just now making
> the same brackets.  Picture attached:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *David Coudron*
>
> david.coud...@advantenon.com  |  *Mobile: *612-991-7474
>
>
>
> *Advantenon, Inc.  *
>
> i...@advantenon.com  |  3500 Vicksburg Lane N, Suite 315, Plymouth, MN
> 55447  |  www.advantenon.com  |  *Phone:* 800-704-4720  |  *Local: *
> 612-454-1545
>
>
>
> 
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Jeremy Grip
> *Sent:* Tuesday, October 27, 2020 3:42 PM
> *To:* 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
> *Subject:* [AFMUG] Silos
>
>
>
>
>
> I know I’ve seen posts in the dimly remembered past about approaches to
> mounting gear to silos, but…
>
>
>
> Looking for approaches to mounting radios, antennas (3.65 and licensed
> backhaul--Cambium/Ceragon, 1-2ft dishes) to both concrete and blue
> harvestore silos. Can’t believe how flimsy the guardrails on top of those
> harvestores are.
>
>
>
> Jeremy Grip
>
> North Branch Networks
>
> 
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
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Re: [AFMUG] OT new hires

[Steve Jones]

gimme gimmes

On Wed, Oct 28, 2020 at 5:16 PM justsumname  wrote:

> What do I know... but it seems to me that people are somehow finding a way
> to have food and their needs met and even some of their wants satisfied
> without working anywhere.
> I call it The Welfare State.   Cuz I doubt they are lottery winners.
> Parents or government or ??... someone is 'providing' it...
> --
>
> On Thu, Oct 22, 2020 at 11:52 PM Ken Hohhof  wrote:
>
>> It’s probably not the reason, but if I peruse the job listings for
>> WISP/FISP field techs / installers, the pay offered is often crap.
>>
>>
>>
>> I’m impressed that many of them accurately state the job requirements
>> (many job ads have vague nonsense for a job description), but then they
>> offer something like $12/hour and want people to work 8-6 and half a day
>> Saturday or something.  Some have benefits and the possibility of pay
>> increases and rising within the company, but employees today probably don’t
>> think about a career with the company and rising through the ranks.  Plus
>> you can get all that at Walmart and just work a cash register or stock
>> shelves.
>>
>>
>>
>> Another thing perhaps is that many young people today don’t seem to have
>> a biological clock conducive to a work day that starts at 8:00.  Most
>> construction jobs actually start at 7:00 on site (because noise ordinances
>> don’t let you start any earlier), good luck getting a 20 year old to show
>> up at 7:00 ready to work.  Used to be you had to do that, nobody cared if
>> you weren’t a morning person.  But then you got all the gig jobs where you
>> just sign into the app whenever you wanted to work.  And the retail and
>> food service jobs that abused young workers by giving them different
>> schedules every day and every week and not giving them a full 40 hours, and
>> the kids got used to it and maybe actually started to like it.  The idea
>> that you work 9-5 because the man says so, is kind of obsolete in 2020.
>> Employment probably looks less like a career and more like a la carte or
>> day labor.  I think I’ll work today.  Or maybe not.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Steve Jones
>> *Sent:* Thursday, October 22, 2020 10:30 PM
>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT new hires
>>
>>
>>
>> I dont understand this shit. I cant say much, I worked a full shift at a
>> hardee's once as a second job and never showed back up, I regret it to this
>> day.
>>
>> I think the prospect of the extra 2400 bucks a month unemployment is
>> what's driving it. Theres gonna be a back pay rider on the "stimulus"
>> package. I've considered asking the boss to "fire" me and cash may me half
>> my salary in the mean time. While I work a second cash job at a bar. I'd
>> pay off my debt in no time
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Oct 21, 2020, 2:49 PM  wrote:
>>
>> Is this a generational thing:  New hire, worked 2 days then no show?
>> Will not return calls, texts or emails.  Has happened repeatedly to us.  We
>> also have guys go through the whole process of getting hired then not ever
>> showing up.
>>
>>
>>
>> No shows to scheduled interviews is very common.
>>
>>
>>
>> On a positive note, I am wiring up my new (to me) water jet cutter...  Be
>> making my own HDD drill bits and micro trenching blades soon!
>>
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
> --
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>
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Re: [AFMUG] OT new hires

[justsumname]

What do I know... but it seems to me that people are somehow finding a way
to have food and their needs met and even some of their wants satisfied
without working anywhere.
I call it The Welfare State.   Cuz I doubt they are lottery winners.
Parents or government or ??... someone is 'providing' it...
--

On Thu, Oct 22, 2020 at 11:52 PM Ken Hohhof  wrote:

> It’s probably not the reason, but if I peruse the job listings for
> WISP/FISP field techs / installers, the pay offered is often crap.
>
>
>
> I’m impressed that many of them accurately state the job requirements
> (many job ads have vague nonsense for a job description), but then they
> offer something like $12/hour and want people to work 8-6 and half a day
> Saturday or something.  Some have benefits and the possibility of pay
> increases and rising within the company, but employees today probably don’t
> think about a career with the company and rising through the ranks.  Plus
> you can get all that at Walmart and just work a cash register or stock
> shelves.
>
>
>
> Another thing perhaps is that many young people today don’t seem to have a
> biological clock conducive to a work day that starts at 8:00.  Most
> construction jobs actually start at 7:00 on site (because noise ordinances
> don’t let you start any earlier), good luck getting a 20 year old to show
> up at 7:00 ready to work.  Used to be you had to do that, nobody cared if
> you weren’t a morning person.  But then you got all the gig jobs where you
> just sign into the app whenever you wanted to work.  And the retail and
> food service jobs that abused young workers by giving them different
> schedules every day and every week and not giving them a full 40 hours, and
> the kids got used to it and maybe actually started to like it.  The idea
> that you work 9-5 because the man says so, is kind of obsolete in 2020.
> Employment probably looks less like a career and more like a la carte or
> day labor.  I think I’ll work today.  Or maybe not.
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Steve Jones
> *Sent:* Thursday, October 22, 2020 10:30 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT new hires
>
>
>
> I dont understand this shit. I cant say much, I worked a full shift at a
> hardee's once as a second job and never showed back up, I regret it to this
> day.
>
> I think the prospect of the extra 2400 bucks a month unemployment is
> what's driving it. Theres gonna be a back pay rider on the "stimulus"
> package. I've considered asking the boss to "fire" me and cash may me half
> my salary in the mean time. While I work a second cash job at a bar. I'd
> pay off my debt in no time
>
>
>
> On Wed, Oct 21, 2020, 2:49 PM  wrote:
>
> Is this a generational thing:  New hire, worked 2 days then no show?  Will
> not return calls, texts or emails.  Has happened repeatedly to us.  We also
> have guys go through the whole process of getting hired then not ever
> showing up.
>
>
>
> No shows to scheduled interviews is very common.
>
>
>
> On a positive note, I am wiring up my new (to me) water jet cutter...  Be
> making my own HDD drill bits and micro trenching blades soon!
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
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Re: [AFMUG] Lithium lead acid replacement batteries

[SmarterBroadband]

Hi Bill

 

I thought with the drop in replacements the BMU handled the charging?

 

From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] On Behalf Of Bill Prince
Sent: Wednesday, October 28, 2020 12:37 PM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Lithium lead acid replacement batteries

 

LiFePo (Lithium Iron Phosphate) is considered very safe. Completely different 
charge profile vs lead acid though.

 

bp


On 10/28/2020 12:32 PM, Steve Jones wrote:

my biggest concern with lithium is im a dolt and dont know for sure which 
variants arent prone to explode

 

On Wed, Oct 28, 2020 at 2:11 PM TJ Trout mailto:t...@voltbb.com> > wrote:

https://batteryhookup.com/

 

On Wed, Oct 28, 2020 at 10:11 AM Harold Bledsoe mailto:hrbled...@outlook.com> > wrote:

I’ve used the Merit Sun batteries for other applications.  They work well and 
have a BMS.  That said, they cannot be used with a lead-acid charging profile.  
Another option would be to disable the charger on the UPS (if possible?) and 
use a separate LiFePO4 charger for the batteries.  That will give you more 
options.

 

From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com> >
Date: Wednesday, October 28, 2020 at 11:44 AM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' mailto:af@af.afmug.com> >
Subject: [AFMUG] Lithium lead acid replacement batteries

Is anyone using Lithium replacements for lead acid it there UPS setups.   Our 
standard setup is 4 12v 100 amp hour external batteries on APC or Alpha UPSs.   
I read that some of the LiFePO4 12v Lithium batteries are drop in replacements 
for lead acid.   Are all with built in BMUs considered drop in?

 

Any one doing this?   What make and model have you used.  Price?  Also 
interested to hear if anyone has purchased though Alibaba?   Prices look good, 
but are they too good to be true?

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Re: [AFMUG] Lithium lead acid replacement batteries

[Bill Prince]

  
  
LiFePo (Lithium Iron Phosphate) is considered very safe.
  Completely different charge profile vs lead acid though.


bp

On 10/28/2020 12:32 PM, Steve Jones
  wrote:


  
  my biggest concern with lithium is im a dolt and
dont know for sure which variants arent prone to explode
  
  
On Wed, Oct 28, 2020 at 2:11
  PM TJ Trout  wrote:


  https://batteryhookup.com/
  
  
  
On Wed, Oct 28, 2020 at
  10:11 AM Harold Bledsoe 
  wrote:


  

  I’ve used the Merit Sun batteries
for other applications.  They work well and have a
BMS.  That said, they cannot be used with a
lead-acid charging profile.  Another option would be
to disable the charger on the UPS (if possible?) and
use a separate LiFePO4 charger for the batteries. 
That will give you more options.
   
  
From:
AF 
Date: Wednesday, October 28, 2020 at
11:44 AM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'

Subject: [AFMUG] Lithium lead acid
replacement batteries
  
  Is anyone using Lithium
replacements for lead acid it there UPS setups.  
Our standard setup is 4 12v 100 amp hour external
batteries on APC or Alpha UPSs.   I read that some
of the LiFePO4 12v Lithium batteries are drop in
replacements for lead acid.   Are all with built in
BMUs considered drop in?
   
  Any one doing this?   What make
and model have you used.  Price?  Also interested to
hear if anyone has purchased though Alibaba?  
Prices look good, but are they too good to be true?

  
  -- 
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Re: [AFMUG] Lithium lead acid replacement batteries

[Steve Jones]

my biggest concern with lithium is im a dolt and dont know for sure which
variants arent prone to explode

On Wed, Oct 28, 2020 at 2:11 PM TJ Trout  wrote:

> https://batteryhookup.com/
>
> On Wed, Oct 28, 2020 at 10:11 AM Harold Bledsoe 
> wrote:
>
>> I’ve used the Merit Sun batteries for other applications.  They work well
>> and have a BMS.  That said, they cannot be used with a lead-acid charging
>> profile.  Another option would be to disable the charger on the UPS (if
>> possible?) and use a separate LiFePO4 charger for the batteries.  That will
>> give you more options.
>>
>>
>>
>> *From: *AF 
>> *Date: *Wednesday, October 28, 2020 at 11:44 AM
>> *To: *'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
>> *Subject: *[AFMUG] Lithium lead acid replacement batteries
>>
>> Is anyone using Lithium replacements for lead acid it there UPS setups.
>> Our standard setup is 4 12v 100 amp hour external batteries on APC or Alpha
>> UPSs.   I read that some of the LiFePO4 12v Lithium batteries are drop in
>> replacements for lead acid.   Are all with built in BMUs considered drop in?
>>
>>
>>
>> Any one doing this?   What make and model have you used.  Price?  Also
>> interested to hear if anyone has purchased though Alibaba?   Prices look
>> good, but are they too good to be true?
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
> --
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>
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Re: [AFMUG] Lithium lead acid replacement batteries

[TJ Trout]

https://batteryhookup.com/

On Wed, Oct 28, 2020 at 10:11 AM Harold Bledsoe 
wrote:

> I’ve used the Merit Sun batteries for other applications.  They work well
> and have a BMS.  That said, they cannot be used with a lead-acid charging
> profile.  Another option would be to disable the charger on the UPS (if
> possible?) and use a separate LiFePO4 charger for the batteries.  That will
> give you more options.
>
>
>
> *From: *AF 
> *Date: *Wednesday, October 28, 2020 at 11:44 AM
> *To: *'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
> *Subject: *[AFMUG] Lithium lead acid replacement batteries
>
> Is anyone using Lithium replacements for lead acid it there UPS setups.
> Our standard setup is 4 12v 100 amp hour external batteries on APC or Alpha
> UPSs.   I read that some of the LiFePO4 12v Lithium batteries are drop in
> replacements for lead acid.   Are all with built in BMUs considered drop in?
>
>
>
> Any one doing this?   What make and model have you used.  Price?  Also
> interested to hear if anyone has purchased though Alibaba?   Prices look
> good, but are they too good to be true?
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
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Re: [AFMUG] [SPAM] Re: WISPs & Covid at 8 months and counting

[Bill Prince]

  
  
or change the words to 

"You've got trouble
Right here in Rivercity
That starts with T, and that rhymes with C, and that stands for
  Covid"


bp

On 10/28/2020 9:08 AM, Ken Hohhof
  wrote:


  
  
  
  
  
Yep.  Gotta pronounce it like Jina though.
 
Also, is it my imagination, or was he a
  rapper?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LI_Oe-jtgdI
 
 

  
From: AF
   On Behalf Of Adam
  Moffett
  Sent: Wednesday, October 28, 2020 11:00 AM
  To: af@af.afmug.com
  Subject: [SPAM] Re: [AFMUG] WISPs & Covid at 8
  months and counting
  

 
Oh my mistake.  I was in 6th grade music class when I saw
  that.  And haven't seen it since.  I just looked at a picture
  and yeah I guess Robert Preston looks similar enough to Dick
  VanDyke that my 12 year old self was fooled. 
"You've got trouble
Right here in Rivercity
That starts with T, and that rhymes with C, and that stands
  for China"
 

  On 10/28/2020 11:51 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote:


  Robert Preston.
   
  

  From: AF 
On Behalf Of Adam Moffett
Sent: Wednesday, October 28, 2020 10:41 AM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] WISPs & Covid at 8
months and counting

  
   
  Is this a reference to Dick Van Dyke as The Music Man?
   
  
On 10/28/2020 11:39 AM, Ken Hohhof
  wrote:
  
  
Band instruments?
 

  
From: AF 
  On Behalf Of ch...@wbmfg.com
  Sent: Wednesday, October 28, 2020 10:22 AM
  To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] WISPs & Covid at 8
  months and counting
  

 

  

  I thought it
  was funny too.  I was always curious as to why he
  had a brand of vodka but bragged that he never
  drank.  I guess anything for a buck.  


  

   


  
From:
Bill Prince 
  
  
Sent:
Wednesday, October 28, 2020 9:15 AM
  
  
To:
af@af.afmug.com
  
  
  
Subject:
Re: [AFMUG] WISPs & Covid at 8 months
and counting
  

  
  
 
  


  This is
  humor to me:
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p58I3Xs0v-c
  bp
  
  
On
10/28/2020 8:07 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
  
  
I
assume this is humor:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BU-ck7GNclc
 
but
this may not be:
https://www.myshreddies.com/
 
 

  
From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com
On Behalf Of Robert
Sent: Wednesday, October 28, 2020
9:53 AM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] WISPs &
Covid at 8 months and counting
  

 
& not
  a place I would like to spend any time...

  On
  10/28/20 7:02 AM, Harold Bledsoe wrote:


  LOL
  – I’ve been to places where that is actually
  common.  :-/
   
   
  
From: Adam Moffett
Se

Re: [AFMUG] Used PacketFlux SyncBox 12

[Lewis Bergman]

Email me a USPS flat rate small box label and I'll throw in the mail. I
think they are $7.53 or something.

On Wed, Oct 28, 2020 at 11:36 AM TJ Trout  wrote:

> I'll take the base, paul I have a lmg unit with about 12 external sync
> ports.
>
> On Wed, Oct 28, 2020, 8:28 AM Lewis Bergman 
> wrote:
>
>> I was looking at a SitemonitorBaseII the other day thinking I should
>> throw it away. I know nothing about it. Might be good, might be broken,
>> might be passworded. No idea. Want it?
>>
>> On Wed, Oct 28, 2020 at 9:37 AM Paul McCall via AF 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Anybody have a couple of these they are not using that they want to part
>>> with?  (will pay)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> We have one in service in our network and need a couple spares.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Paul
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *Paul McCall, President *
>>>
>>> *Florida Broadband / PDMNet*
>>>
>>> *658 Old Dixie Highway*
>>>
>>> *Vero Beach, FL 32962*
>>>
>>> *772-564-6800*
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> AF mailing list
>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Lewis Bergman
>> 325-439-0533 Cell
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>


-- 
Lewis Bergman
325-439-0533 Cell
-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] WISPs & Covid at 8 months and counting

[Mike Hammett]

https://www.daily-chronicle.com/2020/10/14/niu-plans-to-implement-testing-wastewater-to-flush-out-coronavirus/ax0hoat/
 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Ken Hohhof"  
To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group"  
Sent: Saturday, October 24, 2020 11:01:41 AM 
Subject: [AFMUG] WISPs & Covid at 8 months and counting 



So 8 months in, numbers are getting worse not better, and despite what anybody 
says the end is not just around the corner. 

I remember at the beginning some WISPs were not sending techs inside customer 
homes, maybe pushing a cable through the wall and having the customer plug in 
the POE and router. Is anybody still declining to do inside work? Installs, 
repairs? 

Also, what about the FCC requested “pledge” not to disconnect customers for 
nonpayment during the pandemic. How many are still doing that, and assuming 
things won’t be back to “normal” until well into 2021 or even 2022, how long do 
you plan to continue? Are you taking any additional steps, like downgrading 
their speed or declining to do upgrades, or requiring proof of hardship? I know 
this wasn’t mandatory, but if we did it voluntarily, should there be a time 
limit? And if at that point they are 6-12 months behind, do we write that off 
rather than expecting they will catch up? 

It’s also interesting I see on cable company forums issues about mask refusal, 
both by techs and customers, and even of customers who have Covid but still 
want their Internet fixed. I hesitate to bring this up because it has become a 
political or “freedom” issue in a way that seatbelts or smoking or wearing a 
yellow vest at a grain elevator or even picking up after your dog isn’t, and 
I’m tired of being caught in the middle. But take the extreme case of a 
customer who recently tested positive or the tech gets there and strongly 
suspects someone in the house is contagious, is this really happening, and what 
is your response? At the beginning I would ask when setting up every 
appointment, has anyone in the house tested positive, but I’ve come to believe 
that’s pointless. 
-- 
AF mailing list 
AF@af.afmug.com 
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com 

-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] WISPs & Covid at 8 months and counting

[Mike Hammett]

Nimrods everywhere politicized it. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Bill Prince"  
To: af@af.afmug.com 
Sent: Monday, October 26, 2020 4:06:39 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] WISPs & Covid at 8 months and counting 

For the month of October, there have been more cases in the US 
Whitehouse than the whole country of new Zealand. 

The difference is that they (NZ) took the thing seriously as opposed to 
politicizing it like the nimrods in the whitehouse. 


bp 
 

On 10/26/2020 2:01 PM, Robert Andrews wrote: 
> I have a good friend that was in NZ in January. He left. I thought 
> he had it so together to have thought to be there then staying long 
> term with friends... Turns out he was just visiting... Alas, he's 
> in the same boat now as the rest of us... Yes he regrets leaving... 
> 
> On 10/26/2020 01:30 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote: 
>> Screw that, I am off to New Zealand... (I wish) 
>> 
>> -Original Message- From: Robert Andrews 
>> Sent: Monday, October 26, 2020 2:25 PM 
>> To: af@af.afmug.com 
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] WISPs & Covid at 8 months and counting 
>> 
>> The thing I am sad is that we had 7+ months to prepare for what is 
>> happening now. And it's like we collectively wasted that time 
>> bickering. And yes other countries are going into the same situation 
>> that thought they were ahead of it, but they are being much more 
>> aggressive than we are. We are back to a second rate country... 
>> 
>> On 10/26/2020 12:33 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote: 
>>> One thing that seems to be true is that they have figured out 
>>> strategies to keep many more people alive than they did during the 
>>> first peak. If it can be treated, then we can relax a bit until we 
>>> can get the vaccine. Still, I am more vigilant and locked in than 
>>> when it first began. 
>>> At least we have a world series to watch and at least BYU is playing 
>>> an almost full football schedule. 
>>> Snow this morning at my house too. 
>>> *From:* ch...@wbmfg.com 
>>> *Sent:* Monday, October 26, 2020 1:31 PM 
>>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] WISPs & Covid at 8 months and counting 
>>> Utah is overflowing at the hospitals. 
>>> *From:* Mike Meluskey 
>>> *Sent:* Monday, October 26, 2020 1:24 PM 
>>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] WISPs & Covid at 8 months and counting 
>>> 
>>> Father-in-Law is an MD in the Lubbock, TX area. Their hospitals are 
>>> full. 
>>> 
>>> On 26 Oct 2020, at 15:20, Matt Hoppes wrote: 
>>> 
>>> Hold on. Reading your email I am getting conflicting information. 
>>> You said that this seems like it’s a joke but then also that you’ve 
>>> moved everyone who can remote. 
>>> I disagree we have hospitals that are being overwhelmed right now 
>>> look at El Paso. This is not going away after the election. 
>>> 
 On Oct 26, 2020, at 2:57 PM, Steve Jones 
  wrote: 
 
 
 Its almost like nobody listened to the science, they clearly said 
 that the natural progression of any novel virus is 3 annual 
 seasons, with this one in particular being predominately in fall. 
 this is season 2. We have treatments now that are effective, we 
 quit killing people with ventilators the way were were in the 
 beginning, healthcare isnt overwhelmed and theres no shortage of 
 PPE. We only have 8 days until reporting on this changes to be 
 less terrifying. 
 Healthy people are being exposed, beating it, and innoculated, 3 
 months permanent, no one knows if this is different thatn 99 
 percent of other viruses. but of the well over 30 million people 
 who were verified positive via testing and have since recovered, 
 less than 20 globally have been reinfected, so odds are the vast 
 majority are immune. 
 Knowing what we know now, we have permanently moved all positions 
 that can be remote to remote. techs dont go any further than the 
 garage if they dont have to. Its techs choice to mask up and glove 
 up, and as long as they choose to mask up and glove up, it will 
 continue to be there choice. This is only applicable to interiors, 
 theyre not required to mask outside, thats simply ignorant to 
 require and its not "following the science" . ut the tech can 
 choose to do that if they want. hell, if they want to wear a 
 condom all day, its none of our concern. 
 Our state positivity numbers are a joke, they simply base it on 
 the percentage of total tests that are positive, its gotten 
 colder, so people arent getting tested on a whim and we are back 
 to primarily people with risk factors getting tested, the 
 positivity rate went up as would be expected, but not as high as 
 anticipated. 
 If legitimate numbers start going up like hospitalizations 
 (luckily I have ins in healthcare so i dont have to r

Re: [AFMUG] Lithium lead acid replacement batteries

[Harold Bledsoe]

I’ve used the Merit Sun batteries for other applications.  They work well and 
have a BMS.  That said, they cannot be used with a lead-acid charging profile.  
Another option would be to disable the charger on the UPS (if possible?) and 
use a separate LiFePO4 charger for the batteries.  That will give you more 
options.

From: AF 
Date: Wednesday, October 28, 2020 at 11:44 AM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
Subject: [AFMUG] Lithium lead acid replacement batteries
Is anyone using Lithium replacements for lead acid it there UPS setups.   Our 
standard setup is 4 12v 100 amp hour external batteries on APC or Alpha UPSs.   
I read that some of the LiFePO4 12v Lithium batteries are drop in replacements 
for lead acid.   Are all with built in BMUs considered drop in?

Any one doing this?   What make and model have you used.  Price?  Also 
interested to hear if anyone has purchased though Alibaba?   Prices look good, 
but are they too good to be true?
-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] WISPs & Covid at 8 months and counting

[Mike Hammett]

I suspect a general distrust of the government, more so if they're of a 
different political party. 


Over-aggressive power flexes that weren't reeled back when science didn't 
support them, so now people don't believe anything they say and just do 
whatever they want. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Robert Andrews"  
To: af@af.afmug.com 
Sent: Monday, October 26, 2020 3:25:08 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] WISPs & Covid at 8 months and counting 

The thing I am sad is that we had 7+ months to prepare for what is 
happening now. And it's like we collectively wasted that time 
bickering. And yes other countries are going into the same situation 
that thought they were ahead of it, but they are being much more 
aggressive than we are. We are back to a second rate country... 

On 10/26/2020 12:33 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote: 
> One thing that seems to be true is that they have figured out strategies 
> to keep many more people alive than they did during the first peak. If 
> it can be treated, then we can relax a bit until we can get the 
> vaccine. Still, I am more vigilant and locked in than when it first began. 
> At least we have a world series to watch and at least BYU is playing an 
> almost full football schedule. 
> Snow this morning at my house too. 
> *From:* ch...@wbmfg.com 
> *Sent:* Monday, October 26, 2020 1:31 PM 
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] WISPs & Covid at 8 months and counting 
> Utah is overflowing at the hospitals. 
> *From:* Mike Meluskey 
> *Sent:* Monday, October 26, 2020 1:24 PM 
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] WISPs & Covid at 8 months and counting 
> 
> Father-in-Law is an MD in the Lubbock, TX area. Their hospitals are full. 
> 
> On 26 Oct 2020, at 15:20, Matt Hoppes wrote: 
> 
> Hold on. Reading your email I am getting conflicting information. 
> You said that this seems like it’s a joke but then also that you’ve 
> moved everyone who can remote. 
> I disagree we have hospitals that are being overwhelmed right now 
> look at El Paso. This is not going away after the election. 
> 
>> On Oct 26, 2020, at 2:57 PM, Steve Jones 
>>  wrote: 
>> 
>> 
>> Its almost like nobody listened to the science, they clearly said 
>> that the natural progression of any novel virus is 3 annual 
>> seasons, with this one in particular being predominately in fall. 
>> this is season 2. We have treatments now that are effective, we 
>> quit killing people with ventilators the way were were in the 
>> beginning, healthcare isnt overwhelmed and theres no shortage of 
>> PPE. We only have 8 days until reporting on this changes to be 
>> less terrifying. 
>> Healthy people are being exposed, beating it, and innoculated, 3 
>> months permanent, no one knows if this is different thatn 99 
>> percent of other viruses. but of the well over 30 million people 
>> who were verified positive via testing and have since recovered, 
>> less than 20 globally have been reinfected, so odds are the vast 
>> majority are immune. 
>> Knowing what we know now, we have permanently moved all positions 
>> that can be remote to remote. techs dont go any further than the 
>> garage if they dont have to. Its techs choice to mask up and glove 
>> up, and as long as they choose to mask up and glove up, it will 
>> continue to be there choice. This is only applicable to interiors, 
>> theyre not required to mask outside, thats simply ignorant to 
>> require and its not "following the science" . ut the tech can 
>> choose to do that if they want. hell, if they want to wear a 
>> condom all day, its none of our concern. 
>> Our state positivity numbers are a joke, they simply base it on 
>> the percentage of total tests that are positive, its gotten 
>> colder, so people arent getting tested on a whim and we are back 
>> to primarily people with risk factors getting tested, the 
>> positivity rate went up as would be expected, but not as high as 
>> anticipated. 
>> If legitimate numbers start going up like hospitalizations 
>> (luckily I have ins in healthcare so i dont have to rely on media 
>> reports and politically charged public health departments, i am 
>> privy to internal census reports in healthcare) then we will look 
>> toward lower contact solutions, and no contact if our coverage 
>> area sees a legitimate surge. 
>> We dont do stupid stuff, like my contractor who was infected, we 
>> cancelled him for his quarantine period. We dont have in person 
>> company meetings. When we are together on project work we dont 
>> ride in the same vehicle, we just dont take any unnecessary risk, 
>> but we also dont let risk avoidance unnecessarily impact operations. 
>> I quit worrying about exposures with the wife working in a 
>> hospital, we are exposed constantly. (the low incidence of 
>> healthcare transmission is an oddity that after the politics 

Re: [AFMUG] WISPs & Covid at 8 months and counting

[Mike Hammett]

"I figure that I'm going to stay sequestered and away from people until May or 
June of next year." 


Is that because of COVID or because of a general dislike for people and COVID 
makes a great excuse? ;-) 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Forrest Christian (List Account)"  
To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group"  
Sent: Monday, October 26, 2020 3:11:13 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] WISPs & Covid at 8 months and counting 


I'm not sure if I've said this publicly on the list or not 


I figure that I'm going to stay sequestered and away from people until May or 
June of next year. By then, it should have started to subside, we should have a 
vaccine available at least to part of the population, and the 
therapeutics/treatment options will be improved as well. 


Everything I hear is that this is still *not* something you want to catch. 
Especially if you're a middle-aged very overweight male with a history of 
exercise-induced asthma. 










On Mon, Oct 26, 2020 at 1:34 PM < ch...@wbmfg.com > wrote: 






One thing that seems to be true is that they have figured out strategies to 
keep many more people alive than they did during the first peak. If it can be 
treated, then we can relax a bit until we can get the vaccine. Still, I am more 
vigilant and locked in than when it first began. 

At least we have a world series to watch and at least BYU is playing an almost 
full football schedule. 
Snow this morning at my house too. 




From: ch...@wbmfg.com 
Sent: Monday, October 26, 2020 1:31 PM 
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] WISPs & Covid at 8 months and counting 




Utah is overflowing at the hospitals. 




From: Mike Meluskey 
Sent: Monday, October 26, 2020 1:24 PM 
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] WISPs & Covid at 8 months and counting 




Father-in-Law is an MD in the Lubbock, TX area. Their hospitals are full. 
On 26 Oct 2020, at 15:20, Matt Hoppes wrote: 




Hold on. Reading your email I am getting conflicting information. You said that 
this seems like it’s a joke but then also that you’ve moved everyone who can 
remote. 

I disagree we have hospitals that are being overwhelmed right now look at El 
Paso. This is not going away after the election. 



On Oct 26, 2020, at 2:57 PM, Steve Jones < thatoneguyst...@gmail.com > wrote: 







Its almost like nobody listened to the science, they clearly said that the 
natural progression of any novel virus is 3 annual seasons, with this one in 
particular being predominately in fall. this is season 2. We have treatments 
now that are effective, we quit killing people with ventilators the way were 
were in the beginning, healthcare isnt overwhelmed and theres no shortage of 
PPE. We only have 8 days until reporting on this changes to be less terrifying. 

Healthy people are being exposed, beating it, and innoculated, 3 months 
permanent, no one knows if this is different thatn 99 percent of other viruses. 
but of the well over 30 million people who were verified positive via testing 
and have since recovered, less than 20 globally have been reinfected, so odds 
are the vast majority are immune. 

Knowing what we know now, we have permanently moved all positions that can be 
remote to remote. techs dont go any further than the garage if they dont have 
to. Its techs choice to mask up and glove up, and as long as they choose to 
mask up and glove up, it will continue to be there choice. This is only 
applicable to interiors, theyre not required to mask outside, thats simply 
ignorant to require and its not "following the science" . ut the tech can 
choose to do that if they want. hell, if they want to wear a condom all day, 
its none of our concern. 

Our state positivity numbers are a joke, they simply base it on the percentage 
of total tests that are positive, its gotten colder, so people arent getting 
tested on a whim and we are back to primarily people with risk factors getting 
tested, the positivity rate went up as would be expected, but not as high as 
anticipated. 

If legitimate numbers start going up like hospitalizations (luckily I have ins 
in healthcare so i dont have to rely on media reports and politically charged 
public health departments, i am privy to internal census reports in healthcare) 
then we will look toward lower contact solutions, and no contact if our 
coverage area sees a legitimate surge. 

We dont do stupid stuff, like my contractor who was infected, we cancelled him 
for his quarantine period. We dont have in person company meetings. When we are 
together on project work we dont ride in the same vehicle, we just dont take 
any unnecessary risk, but we also dont let risk avoidance unnecessarily impact 
operations. 

I quit worrying about exposures with the wife working in a hospital, we are 
exposed constantly. (the low incidence of healthcare transmissio

Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti AF 60G

[Mathew Howard]

Yeah, the mounts are junk. You can't really aim them precisely enough with
those mounts. Ubiquiti does make a better mount yet, but I don't know if
those are generally available yet.

It doesn't actually take that much force to make stainless u-bolts seize
up... you really have to either grease them or replace the nuts (or the
whole u-bolt) with galvanized ones, if you don't want that to happen.

On Tue, Oct 27, 2020 at 5:00 PM Jason McKemie <
j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com> wrote:

> These were new out of the box. They spun freely, I just had to tighten it
> up so much to get the vertical adjustment to lock that it bent the thread.
>
> On Tuesday, October 27, 2020, Ken Hohhof  wrote:
>
>> Sounds like maybe seizing / galling / cold welding of the stainless steel
>> bolt and nut.  The anti-seize with the silver flecks in it is messy but
>> does work.  Or replace the nuts with brass or silicon-bronze.
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Jason McKemie
>> *Sent:* Tuesday, October 27, 2020 4:33 PM
>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti AF 60G
>>
>>
>>
>> Yes.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Oct 27, 2020 at 4:03 PM Ken Hohhof  wrote:
>>
>> Stainless steel U-bolt and nuts?
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Jason McKemie
>> *Sent:* Tuesday, October 27, 2020 3:40 PM
>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti AF 60G
>>
>>
>>
>> Ha, no, plenty of threat left. It was at the upper end of what the u-bolt
>> would fit around.
>>
>> On Tuesday, October 27, 2020, Carl Peterson 
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> Was your pipe too small?
>>
>> Thats what she said
>>
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
>> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

[AFMUG] Lithium lead acid replacement batteries

[SmarterBroadband]

Is anyone using Lithium replacements for lead acid it there UPS setups.
Our standard setup is 4 12v 100 amp hour external batteries on APC or Alpha
UPSs.   I read that some of the LiFePO4 12v Lithium batteries are drop in
replacements for lead acid.   Are all with built in BMUs considered drop in?

 

Any one doing this?   What make and model have you used.  Price?  Also
interested to hear if anyone has purchased though Alibaba?   Prices look
good, but are they too good to be true?

-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] Used PacketFlux SyncBox 12

[TJ Trout]

I'll take the base, paul I have a lmg unit with about 12 external sync
ports.

On Wed, Oct 28, 2020, 8:28 AM Lewis Bergman  wrote:

> I was looking at a SitemonitorBaseII the other day thinking I should throw
> it away. I know nothing about it. Might be good, might be broken, might be
> passworded. No idea. Want it?
>
> On Wed, Oct 28, 2020 at 9:37 AM Paul McCall via AF 
> wrote:
>
>> Anybody have a couple of these they are not using that they want to part
>> with?  (will pay)
>>
>>
>>
>> We have one in service in our network and need a couple spares.
>>
>>
>>
>> Paul
>>
>>
>>
>> *Paul McCall, President *
>>
>> *Florida Broadband / PDMNet*
>>
>> *658 Old Dixie Highway*
>>
>> *Vero Beach, FL 32962*
>>
>> *772-564-6800*
>>
>>
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
>
>
> --
> Lewis Bergman
> 325-439-0533 Cell
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] [SPAM] Re: WISPs & Covid at 8 months and counting

[Ken Hohhof]

Yep.  Gotta pronounce it like Jina though.

 

Also, is it my imagination, or was he a rapper?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LI_Oe-jtgdI

 

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of Adam Moffett
Sent: Wednesday, October 28, 2020 11:00 AM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: [SPAM] Re: [AFMUG] WISPs & Covid at 8 months and counting

 

Oh my mistake.  I was in 6th grade music class when I saw that.  And haven't 
seen it since.  I just looked at a picture and yeah I guess Robert Preston 
looks similar enough to Dick VanDyke that my 12 year old self was fooled. 

"You've got trouble

Right here in Rivercity

That starts with T, and that rhymes with C, and that stands for China"

 

On 10/28/2020 11:51 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote:

Robert Preston.

 

From: AF    On Behalf 
Of Adam Moffett
Sent: Wednesday, October 28, 2020 10:41 AM
To: af@af.afmug.com  
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] WISPs & Covid at 8 months and counting

 

Is this a reference to Dick Van Dyke as The Music Man?

 

On 10/28/2020 11:39 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote:

Band instruments?

 

From: AF    On Behalf 
Of ch...@wbmfg.com  
Sent: Wednesday, October 28, 2020 10:22 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group   
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] WISPs & Covid at 8 months and counting

 

I thought it was funny too.  I was always curious as to why he had a brand of 
vodka but bragged that he never drank.  I guess anything for a buck.  

 

From: Bill Prince 

Sent: Wednesday, October 28, 2020 9:15 AM

To: af@af.afmug.com   

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] WISPs & Covid at 8 months and counting

 

This is humor to me:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p58I3Xs0v-c

bp


On 10/28/2020 8:07 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote:

I assume this is humor:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BU-ck7GNclc

 

but this may not be:

https://www.myshreddies.com/

 

 

From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com On Behalf Of Robert
Sent: Wednesday, October 28, 2020 9:53 AM
To: af@af.afmug.com  
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] WISPs & Covid at 8 months and counting

 

& not a place I would like to spend any time...

On 10/28/20 7:02 AM, Harold Bledsoe wrote:

LOL – I’ve been to places where that is actually common.  :-/

 

 

From: Adam Moffett
Sent: Wednesday, October 28, 2020 8:49 AM
To: af@af.afmug.com  
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] WISPs & Covid at 8 months and counting

 

I guess since diapers don't stop farts just let the baby poop on the floor.

 

On 10/28/2020 9:31 AM, Harold Bledsoe wrote:

I think those videos are interesting but they may not be that relevant to virus 
transmission.  Those videos deal droplet-sized (and bigger) emissions.  
Aerosols can’t be seen on high-speed camera because they are too small.  I 
heard a funny analogy that stopping virus spread with a mask is like stopping a 
fart with a diaper.  Also not fully accurate but funny.

 

Is there benefit from stopping large droplets?  That is the question.  So what 
happens to even the large droplets that get trapped in a cloth mask?  The 
droplets themselves will start to evaporate and eventually you are left with 
aerosol sized or just the virus particles themselves.  They don’t just 
disappear right?  Now when you inhale/exhale the virus is small enough to 
escape from the mask.  And when you touch the mask, you move virus to whatever 
you touch after that.  And you bring it back to your car or house or whatever 
because most people are not disposing of masks or properly disinfecting them.  
So the mask is more of an intermediary and not a virus destroyer.

 

Again, the consensus before March was that it doesn’t limit the cloud – it just 
moves the cloud around.  I’m not aware of any evidence that has shown a cloth 
mask has any benefit for slowing virus spread in communities.  Maybe one day we 
will have some kind of force field bubble that can actually do that.  The 
plastic barriers are another example – coronaviruses survive quite well on 
these surfaces so it might be having an overall opposite effect of the intended 
purpose of slowing spread.

 

So, anyways, I will continue to wear a mask when requested by business owners 
and other private property owners.  I just don’t think it is doing much besides 
making folks feel like they are doing something even if they aren’t.  Absent 
the force field bubble, the only way to stop transmission is to isolate humans, 
but that’s a whole other can of worms…

 

From: Forrest Christian (List Account)
Sent: Tuesday, October 27, 2020 10:01 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] WISPs & Covid at 8 months and counting

 

Wearing a face mask provides very little protection for the wearer from the 
virus.   This fact is what the anti-maskers tend to spout over and over and 
over again.  And it's true.If you're wearing a mask to prevent yourself 
from catching the virus, well, you're effectively in the category 

Re: [AFMUG] WISPs & Covid at 8 months and counting

[chuck]

And Shirley Jones.  There was a scene in Elmer Gantry where she was smokin’ 
hot.  

From: Ken Hohhof 
Sent: Wednesday, October 28, 2020 9:51 AM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] WISPs & Covid at 8 months and counting

Robert Preston.

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of Adam Moffett
Sent: Wednesday, October 28, 2020 10:41 AM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] WISPs & Covid at 8 months and counting

 

Is this a reference to Dick Van Dyke as The Music Man?

 

On 10/28/2020 11:39 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote:

  Band instruments?

   

  From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com On Behalf Of ch...@wbmfg.com
  Sent: Wednesday, October 28, 2020 10:22 AM
  To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] WISPs & Covid at 8 months and counting

   

  I thought it was funny too.  I was always curious as to why he had a brand of 
vodka but bragged that he never drank.  I guess anything for a buck.  

   

  From: Bill Prince 

  Sent: Wednesday, October 28, 2020 9:15 AM

  To: af@af.afmug.com 

  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] WISPs & Covid at 8 months and counting

   

  This is humor to me:

  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p58I3Xs0v-c

bpOn 10/28/2020 8:07 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote:

I assume this is humor:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BU-ck7GNclc

 

but this may not be:

https://www.myshreddies.com/

 

 

From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com On Behalf Of Robert
Sent: Wednesday, October 28, 2020 9:53 AM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] WISPs & Covid at 8 months and counting

 

& not a place I would like to spend any time...

On 10/28/20 7:02 AM, Harold Bledsoe wrote:

  LOL – I’ve been to places where that is actually common.  :-/

   

   

  From: Adam Moffett
  Sent: Wednesday, October 28, 2020 8:49 AM
  To: af@af.afmug.com
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] WISPs & Covid at 8 months and counting

   

  I guess since diapers don't stop farts just let the baby poop on the 
floor.

   

  On 10/28/2020 9:31 AM, Harold Bledsoe wrote:

I think those videos are interesting but they may not be that relevant 
to virus transmission.  Those videos deal droplet-sized (and bigger) emissions. 
 Aerosols can’t be seen on high-speed camera because they are too small.  I 
heard a funny analogy that stopping virus spread with a mask is like stopping a 
fart with a diaper.  Also not fully accurate but funny.

 

Is there benefit from stopping large droplets?  That is the question.  
So what happens to even the large droplets that get trapped in a cloth mask?  
The droplets themselves will start to evaporate and eventually you are left 
with aerosol sized or just the virus particles themselves.  They don’t just 
disappear right?  Now when you inhale/exhale the virus is small enough to 
escape from the mask.  And when you touch the mask, you move virus to whatever 
you touch after that.  And you bring it back to your car or house or whatever 
because most people are not disposing of masks or properly disinfecting them.  
So the mask is more of an intermediary and not a virus destroyer.

 

Again, the consensus before March was that it doesn’t limit the cloud – 
it just moves the cloud around.  I’m not aware of any evidence that has shown a 
cloth mask has any benefit for slowing virus spread in communities.  Maybe one 
day we will have some kind of force field bubble that can actually do that.  
The plastic barriers are another example – coronaviruses survive quite well on 
these surfaces so it might be having an overall opposite effect of the intended 
purpose of slowing spread.

 

So, anyways, I will continue to wear a mask when requested by business 
owners and other private property owners.  I just don’t think it is doing much 
besides making folks feel like they are doing something even if they aren’t.  
Absent the force field bubble, the only way to stop transmission is to isolate 
humans, but that’s a whole other can of worms…

 

From: Forrest Christian (List Account)
Sent: Tuesday, October 27, 2020 10:01 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] WISPs & Covid at 8 months and counting

 

Wearing a face mask provides very little protection for the wearer from 
the virus.   This fact is what the anti-maskers tend to spout over and over and 
over again.  And it's true.If you're wearing a mask to prevent yourself 
from catching the virus, well, you're effectively in the category of "something 
is better than nothing, but not much".

 

However, what has changed is that we are dealing with a virus that 
seems to be quite contagious before symptoms appear.   As a result, if we can 
limit the amount of virus floating around in the 'cloud' around people who are 
contagious but don't know it that will help.   For this, masks are *very* 

Re: [AFMUG] WISPs & Covid at 8 months and counting

[Ken Hohhof]

According to Wikipedia:

“The character Marian Paroo was inspired by Marian Seeley of Provo, Utah, who 
met Willson during World War II, when Seeley was a medical records librarian.”

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of ch...@wbmfg.com
Sent: Wednesday, October 28, 2020 10:42 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] WISPs & Covid at 8 months and counting

 

Librarians?

 

From: Ken Hohhof 

Sent: Wednesday, October 28, 2020 9:39 AM

To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] WISPs & Covid at 8 months and counting

 

Band instruments?

 

From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com> > On Behalf 
Of ch...@wbmfg.com  
Sent: Wednesday, October 28, 2020 10:22 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com> >
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] WISPs & Covid at 8 months and counting

 

I thought it was funny too.  I was always curious as to why he had a brand of 
vodka but bragged that he never drank.  I guess anything for a buck.  

 

From: Bill Prince 

Sent: Wednesday, October 28, 2020 9:15 AM

To: af@af.afmug.com   

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] WISPs & Covid at 8 months and counting

 

This is humor to me:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p58I3Xs0v-c

bp


On 10/28/2020 8:07 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote:

I assume this is humor:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BU-ck7GNclc

 

but this may not be:

https://www.myshreddies.com/

 

 

From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com On Behalf Of Robert
Sent: Wednesday, October 28, 2020 9:53 AM
To: af@af.afmug.com  
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] WISPs & Covid at 8 months and counting

 

& not a place I would like to spend any time...

On 10/28/20 7:02 AM, Harold Bledsoe wrote:

LOL – I’ve been to places where that is actually common.  :-/

 

 

From: Adam Moffett
Sent: Wednesday, October 28, 2020 8:49 AM
To: af@af.afmug.com  
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] WISPs & Covid at 8 months and counting

 

I guess since diapers don't stop farts just let the baby poop on the floor.

 

On 10/28/2020 9:31 AM, Harold Bledsoe wrote:

I think those videos are interesting but they may not be that relevant to virus 
transmission.  Those videos deal droplet-sized (and bigger) emissions.  
Aerosols can’t be seen on high-speed camera because they are too small.  I 
heard a funny analogy that stopping virus spread with a mask is like stopping a 
fart with a diaper.  Also not fully accurate but funny.

 

Is there benefit from stopping large droplets?  That is the question.  So what 
happens to even the large droplets that get trapped in a cloth mask?  The 
droplets themselves will start to evaporate and eventually you are left with 
aerosol sized or just the virus particles themselves.  They don’t just 
disappear right?  Now when you inhale/exhale the virus is small enough to 
escape from the mask.  And when you touch the mask, you move virus to whatever 
you touch after that.  And you bring it back to your car or house or whatever 
because most people are not disposing of masks or properly disinfecting them.  
So the mask is more of an intermediary and not a virus destroyer.

 

Again, the consensus before March was that it doesn’t limit the cloud – it just 
moves the cloud around.  I’m not aware of any evidence that has shown a cloth 
mask has any benefit for slowing virus spread in communities.  Maybe one day we 
will have some kind of force field bubble that can actually do that.  The 
plastic barriers are another example – coronaviruses survive quite well on 
these surfaces so it might be having an overall opposite effect of the intended 
purpose of slowing spread.

 

So, anyways, I will continue to wear a mask when requested by business owners 
and other private property owners.  I just don’t think it is doing much besides 
making folks feel like they are doing something even if they aren’t.  Absent 
the force field bubble, the only way to stop transmission is to isolate humans, 
but that’s a whole other can of worms…

 

From: Forrest Christian (List Account)
Sent: Tuesday, October 27, 2020 10:01 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] WISPs & Covid at 8 months and counting

 

Wearing a face mask provides very little protection for the wearer from the 
virus.   This fact is what the anti-maskers tend to spout over and over and 
over again.  And it's true.If you're wearing a mask to prevent yourself 
from catching the virus, well, you're effectively in the category of "something 
is better than nothing, but not much".

 

However, what has changed is that we are dealing with a virus that seems to be 
quite contagious before symptoms appear.   As a result, if we can limit the 
amount of virus floating around in the 'cloud' around people who are contagious 
but don't know it that will help.   For this, masks are *very* effective, even 
cloth ones although of course some are better than others.   There are quite a 
few videos out on the net from various organizati

Re: [AFMUG] WISPs & Covid at 8 months and counting

[Ken Hohhof]

Robert Preston.

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of Adam Moffett
Sent: Wednesday, October 28, 2020 10:41 AM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] WISPs & Covid at 8 months and counting

 

Is this a reference to Dick Van Dyke as The Music Man?

 

On 10/28/2020 11:39 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote:

Band instruments?

 

From: AF    On Behalf 
Of ch...@wbmfg.com  
Sent: Wednesday, October 28, 2020 10:22 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group   
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] WISPs & Covid at 8 months and counting

 

I thought it was funny too.  I was always curious as to why he had a brand of 
vodka but bragged that he never drank.  I guess anything for a buck.  

 

From: Bill Prince 

Sent: Wednesday, October 28, 2020 9:15 AM

To: af@af.afmug.com   

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] WISPs & Covid at 8 months and counting

 

This is humor to me:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p58I3Xs0v-c

bp


On 10/28/2020 8:07 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote:

I assume this is humor:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BU-ck7GNclc

 

but this may not be:

https://www.myshreddies.com/

 

 

From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com On Behalf Of Robert
Sent: Wednesday, October 28, 2020 9:53 AM
To: af@af.afmug.com  
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] WISPs & Covid at 8 months and counting

 

& not a place I would like to spend any time...

On 10/28/20 7:02 AM, Harold Bledsoe wrote:

LOL – I’ve been to places where that is actually common.  :-/

 

 

From: Adam Moffett
Sent: Wednesday, October 28, 2020 8:49 AM
To: af@af.afmug.com  
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] WISPs & Covid at 8 months and counting

 

I guess since diapers don't stop farts just let the baby poop on the floor.

 

On 10/28/2020 9:31 AM, Harold Bledsoe wrote:

I think those videos are interesting but they may not be that relevant to virus 
transmission.  Those videos deal droplet-sized (and bigger) emissions.  
Aerosols can’t be seen on high-speed camera because they are too small.  I 
heard a funny analogy that stopping virus spread with a mask is like stopping a 
fart with a diaper.  Also not fully accurate but funny.

 

Is there benefit from stopping large droplets?  That is the question.  So what 
happens to even the large droplets that get trapped in a cloth mask?  The 
droplets themselves will start to evaporate and eventually you are left with 
aerosol sized or just the virus particles themselves.  They don’t just 
disappear right?  Now when you inhale/exhale the virus is small enough to 
escape from the mask.  And when you touch the mask, you move virus to whatever 
you touch after that.  And you bring it back to your car or house or whatever 
because most people are not disposing of masks or properly disinfecting them.  
So the mask is more of an intermediary and not a virus destroyer.

 

Again, the consensus before March was that it doesn’t limit the cloud – it just 
moves the cloud around.  I’m not aware of any evidence that has shown a cloth 
mask has any benefit for slowing virus spread in communities.  Maybe one day we 
will have some kind of force field bubble that can actually do that.  The 
plastic barriers are another example – coronaviruses survive quite well on 
these surfaces so it might be having an overall opposite effect of the intended 
purpose of slowing spread.

 

So, anyways, I will continue to wear a mask when requested by business owners 
and other private property owners.  I just don’t think it is doing much besides 
making folks feel like they are doing something even if they aren’t.  Absent 
the force field bubble, the only way to stop transmission is to isolate humans, 
but that’s a whole other can of worms…

 

From: Forrest Christian (List Account)
Sent: Tuesday, October 27, 2020 10:01 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] WISPs & Covid at 8 months and counting

 

Wearing a face mask provides very little protection for the wearer from the 
virus.   This fact is what the anti-maskers tend to spout over and over and 
over again.  And it's true.If you're wearing a mask to prevent yourself 
from catching the virus, well, you're effectively in the category of "something 
is better than nothing, but not much".

 

However, what has changed is that we are dealing with a virus that seems to be 
quite contagious before symptoms appear.   As a result, if we can limit the 
amount of virus floating around in the 'cloud' around people who are contagious 
but don't know it that will help.   For this, masks are *very* effective, even 
cloth ones although of course some are better than others.   There are quite a 
few videos out on the net from various organizations that have simulated this 
in various ways.

 

For example:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DNeYfUTA11s 

Re: [AFMUG] WISPs & Covid at 8 months and counting

[Matt Hoppes]

And this is why I'm switching from surgical masks back to N95 masks... 
because around here the general population is no longer wearing masks.


Here's the issue I have:

It's a tiny piece of cloth to wear over your mouth hole when you're out.

I don't need to wear pants or a shirt -- no one will die if I don't... 
but out of social decency I wear them.


Wear a darn mask.

On 10/27/20 11:00 PM, Forrest Christian (List Account) wrote:
Wearing a face mask provides very little protection for the wearer from 
the virus.   This fact is what the anti-maskers tend to spout over and 
over and over again.  And it's true.    If you're wearing a mask to 
prevent yourself from catching the virus, well, you're effectively in 
the category of "something is better than nothing, but not much".


However, what has changed is that we are dealing with a virus that seems 
to be quite contagious before symptoms appear.   As a result, if we 
can limit the amount of virus floating around in the 'cloud' around 
people who are contagious but don't know it that will help.   For this, 
masks are *very* effective, even cloth ones although of course some are 
better than others.   There are quite a few videos out on the net from 
various organizations that have simulated this in various ways.


For example:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DNeYfUTA11s

A mask doesn't prevent the virus from getting out, what it does is limit 
the size of the cloud around people, with much of the moisture particles 
(which contain the virus) being caught by the mask.    So, as is said 
over and over, wearing a mask is to protect everyone around you, not you.





On Tue, Oct 27, 2020 at 1:22 PM Harold Bledsoe > wrote:


I also follow a simple rule that if a business/home owner requires a
mask, it is their property and their right to require it.  So, wear
it.

__ __

That said, I do think it is unfortunate that anyone that questions
the efficacy of mask use in the general population is assumed to be
one of the “it’s a hoax” people right off the bat.  Masks have been
around for a hundred years and up until March or so of this year, it
was generally accepted that mask wearing by the general population
isn’t helpful.  So the logical question is, what changed?

__ __

If the reason to wear a mask is to hide my ugly face, then, ok,
there’s a good argument there.  If it is for some kind of universal
symbol to remind us to keep our distance from each other, then,
again, ok that might work.  If we are all getting N-95 masks and
will be properly disposing of them after each encounter/location and
doing proper disinfection afterwards – that too could work.

__ __

But if the argument is that we should wear neck gators and cloth
masks to protect our neighbors, well, I think there is very little
evidence to support this (and again was generally accepted until
March 2020).  I’ve personally seen my father get closer and closer
to others while wearing a mask because he can’t understand wtf the
other person is saying.  So, in these cases, it is discouraging the
proven method to slow spread (distance).

__ __

In my mind, these are 2 different things though:

__ __

 1. following the rules set on private property by the owners of
that property
 2. questioning if this is a valid mitigation strategy or just
virtue signaling and/or is there a better way

__ __

Perhaps this could be more useful:

__ __



__ __

__ __

*From: *Jay Weekley 
*Sent: *Tuesday, October 27, 2020 10:51 AM
*To: *AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
*Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] WISPs & Covid at 8 months and counting

__ __

We've lost a certain degree of social decency.  We have a mandatory
mask
order but it's not enforced; however, the "it's a hoax" or "you can't
tell me what to do" folks that won't wear one don't seem to get that if
the person you're interacting with is wearing a mask then there is a
pretty good chance they would like you to wear one too.   If the
cashier
is wearing a mask then put one on yourself regardless of what your
opinion of the virus is.

Ken Hohhof wrote:
 >
 > Unfortunately attitudes sometimes take a generation to change. 
When I

 > was young, people smoked everywhere, then they started having
 > designated smoking areas, now smokers are pariahs.  Used to be, if
 > your dog pooped on someone else’s lawn, you left it for them to pick
 > up.  People used to chew tobacco and spit on the sidewalk.  Buffets
 > didn’t used to have sneezeguards.  It took Seinfeld to make “double
 > dipping” a taboo.  Other things like seatbelts and child seats have
 > gone from controversial to the societal norm.  Probably m

Re: [AFMUG] WISPs & Covid at 8 months and counting

[chuck]

Librarians?

From: Ken Hohhof 
Sent: Wednesday, October 28, 2020 9:39 AM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] WISPs & Covid at 8 months and counting

Band instruments?

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of ch...@wbmfg.com
Sent: Wednesday, October 28, 2020 10:22 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] WISPs & Covid at 8 months and counting

 

I thought it was funny too.  I was always curious as to why he had a brand of 
vodka but bragged that he never drank.  I guess anything for a buck.  

 

From: Bill Prince 

Sent: Wednesday, October 28, 2020 9:15 AM

To: af@af.afmug.com 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] WISPs & Covid at 8 months and counting

 

This is humor to me:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p58I3Xs0v-c

bpOn 10/28/2020 8:07 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote:

  I assume this is humor:

  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BU-ck7GNclc

   

  but this may not be:

  https://www.myshreddies.com/

   

   

  From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com On Behalf Of Robert
  Sent: Wednesday, October 28, 2020 9:53 AM
  To: af@af.afmug.com
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] WISPs & Covid at 8 months and counting

   

  & not a place I would like to spend any time...

  On 10/28/20 7:02 AM, Harold Bledsoe wrote:

LOL – I’ve been to places where that is actually common.  :-/

 

 

From: Adam Moffett
Sent: Wednesday, October 28, 2020 8:49 AM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] WISPs & Covid at 8 months and counting

 

I guess since diapers don't stop farts just let the baby poop on the floor.

 

On 10/28/2020 9:31 AM, Harold Bledsoe wrote:

  I think those videos are interesting but they may not be that relevant to 
virus transmission.  Those videos deal droplet-sized (and bigger) emissions.  
Aerosols can’t be seen on high-speed camera because they are too small.  I 
heard a funny analogy that stopping virus spread with a mask is like stopping a 
fart with a diaper.  Also not fully accurate but funny.

   

  Is there benefit from stopping large droplets?  That is the question.  So 
what happens to even the large droplets that get trapped in a cloth mask?  The 
droplets themselves will start to evaporate and eventually you are left with 
aerosol sized or just the virus particles themselves.  They don’t just 
disappear right?  Now when you inhale/exhale the virus is small enough to 
escape from the mask.  And when you touch the mask, you move virus to whatever 
you touch after that.  And you bring it back to your car or house or whatever 
because most people are not disposing of masks or properly disinfecting them.  
So the mask is more of an intermediary and not a virus destroyer.

   

  Again, the consensus before March was that it doesn’t limit the cloud – 
it just moves the cloud around.  I’m not aware of any evidence that has shown a 
cloth mask has any benefit for slowing virus spread in communities.  Maybe one 
day we will have some kind of force field bubble that can actually do that.  
The plastic barriers are another example – coronaviruses survive quite well on 
these surfaces so it might be having an overall opposite effect of the intended 
purpose of slowing spread.

   

  So, anyways, I will continue to wear a mask when requested by business 
owners and other private property owners.  I just don’t think it is doing much 
besides making folks feel like they are doing something even if they aren’t.  
Absent the force field bubble, the only way to stop transmission is to isolate 
humans, but that’s a whole other can of worms…

   

  From: Forrest Christian (List Account)
  Sent: Tuesday, October 27, 2020 10:01 PM
  To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] WISPs & Covid at 8 months and counting

   

  Wearing a face mask provides very little protection for the wearer from 
the virus.   This fact is what the anti-maskers tend to spout over and over and 
over again.  And it's true.If you're wearing a mask to prevent yourself 
from catching the virus, well, you're effectively in the category of "something 
is better than nothing, but not much".

   

  However, what has changed is that we are dealing with a virus that seems 
to be quite contagious before symptoms appear.   As a result, if we can limit 
the amount of virus floating around in the 'cloud' around people who are 
contagious but don't know it that will help.   For this, masks are *very* 
effective, even cloth ones although of course some are better than others.   
There are quite a few videos out on the net from various organizations that 
have simulated this in various ways.

   

  For example:

   

  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DNeYfUTA11s

   

  A mask doesn't prevent the virus from getting out, what it does is limit 
the size of the cloud around people, with much of the moisture particles (which 
contain the virus) being caught by the mask.So, as is said over and

Re: [AFMUG] WISPs & Covid at 8 months and counting

[Adam Moffett]

Is this a reference to Dick Van Dyke as /The Music Man/?


On 10/28/2020 11:39 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote:


Band instruments?

*From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *ch...@wbmfg.com
*Sent:* Wednesday, October 28, 2020 10:22 AM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] WISPs & Covid at 8 months and counting

I thought it was funny too.  I was always curious as to why he had a 
brand of vodka but bragged that he never drank.  I guess anything for 
a buck.


*From:*Bill Prince

*Sent:*Wednesday, October 28, 2020 9:15 AM

*To:*af@af.afmug.com 

*Subject:*Re: [AFMUG] WISPs & Covid at 8 months and counting

This is humor to me:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p58I3Xs0v-c 



bp


On 10/28/2020 8:07 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote:

I assume this is humor:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BU-ck7GNclc


but this may not be:

https://www.myshreddies.com/ 

*From:*AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com
 *On Behalf Of *Robert
*Sent:* Wednesday, October 28, 2020 9:53 AM
*To:* af@af.afmug.com 
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] WISPs & Covid at 8 months and counting

& not a place I would like to spend any time...

On 10/28/20 7:02 AM, Harold Bledsoe wrote:

LOL – I’ve been to places where that is actually common.  :-/

*From: *Adam Moffett
*Sent: *Wednesday, October 28, 2020 8:49 AM
*To: *af@af.afmug.com 
*Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] WISPs & Covid at 8 months and counting

I guess since diapers don't stop farts just let the baby poop
on the floor.

On 10/28/2020 9:31 AM, Harold Bledsoe wrote:

I think those videos are interesting but they may not be
that relevant to virus transmission. Those videos deal
droplet-sized (and bigger) emissions.  Aerosols can’t be
seen on high-speed camera because they are too small.  I
heard a funny analogy that stopping virus spread with a
mask is like stopping a fart with a diaper. Also not fully
accurate but funny.

Is there benefit from stopping large droplets? That is the
question.  So what happens to even the large droplets that
get trapped in a cloth mask?  The droplets themselves will
start to evaporate and eventually you are left with
aerosol sized or just the virus particles themselves. 
They don’t just disappear right? Now when you
inhale/exhale the virus is small enough to escape from the
mask.  And when you touch the mask, you move virus to
whatever you touch after that.  And you bring it back to
your car or house or whatever because most people are not
disposing of masks or properly disinfecting them.  So the
mask is more of an intermediary and not a virus destroyer.

Again, the consensus before March was that it doesn’t
limit the cloud – it just moves the cloud around.  I’m not
aware of any evidence that has shown a cloth mask has any
benefit for slowing virus spread in communities.  Maybe
one day we will have some kind of force field bubble that
can actually do that.  The plastic barriers are another
example – coronaviruses survive quite well on these
surfaces so it might be having an overall opposite effect
of the intended purpose of slowing spread.

So, anyways, I will continue to wear a mask when requested
by business owners and other private property owners.  I
just don’t think it is doing much besides making folks
feel like they are doing something even if they aren’t. 
Absent the force field bubble, the only way to stop
transmission is to isolate humans, but that’s a whole
other can of worms…

*From: *Forrest Christian (List Account)
*Sent: *Tuesday, October 27, 2020 10:01 PM
*To: *AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
*Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] WISPs & Covid at 8 months and counting

Wearing a face mask provides very little protection for
the wearer from the virus.   This fact is what the
anti-maskers tend to spout over and over and over again. 
And it's true. If you're wearing a mask to prevent
yourself from catching the virus, well, you're effectively
in the category of "something is better than nothing, but
not much".

However, what has changed is that we are dealing with a
virus that seems to be quite contagious before symptoms
appear.   As a result, if we can limit the amount of virus
  

Re: [AFMUG] WISPs & Covid at 8 months and counting

[Ken Hohhof]

Band instruments?

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of ch...@wbmfg.com
Sent: Wednesday, October 28, 2020 10:22 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] WISPs & Covid at 8 months and counting

 

I thought it was funny too.  I was always curious as to why he had a brand of 
vodka but bragged that he never drank.  I guess anything for a buck.  

 

From: Bill Prince 

Sent: Wednesday, October 28, 2020 9:15 AM

To: af@af.afmug.com   

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] WISPs & Covid at 8 months and counting

 

This is humor to me:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p58I3Xs0v-c

bp


On 10/28/2020 8:07 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote:

I assume this is humor:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BU-ck7GNclc

 

but this may not be:

https://www.myshreddies.com/

 

 

From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com On Behalf Of Robert
Sent: Wednesday, October 28, 2020 9:53 AM
To: af@af.afmug.com  
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] WISPs & Covid at 8 months and counting

 

& not a place I would like to spend any time...

On 10/28/20 7:02 AM, Harold Bledsoe wrote:

LOL – I’ve been to places where that is actually common.  :-/

 

 

From: Adam Moffett
Sent: Wednesday, October 28, 2020 8:49 AM
To: af@af.afmug.com  
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] WISPs & Covid at 8 months and counting

 

I guess since diapers don't stop farts just let the baby poop on the floor.

 

On 10/28/2020 9:31 AM, Harold Bledsoe wrote:

I think those videos are interesting but they may not be that relevant to virus 
transmission.  Those videos deal droplet-sized (and bigger) emissions.  
Aerosols can’t be seen on high-speed camera because they are too small.  I 
heard a funny analogy that stopping virus spread with a mask is like stopping a 
fart with a diaper.  Also not fully accurate but funny.

 

Is there benefit from stopping large droplets?  That is the question.  So what 
happens to even the large droplets that get trapped in a cloth mask?  The 
droplets themselves will start to evaporate and eventually you are left with 
aerosol sized or just the virus particles themselves.  They don’t just 
disappear right?  Now when you inhale/exhale the virus is small enough to 
escape from the mask.  And when you touch the mask, you move virus to whatever 
you touch after that.  And you bring it back to your car or house or whatever 
because most people are not disposing of masks or properly disinfecting them.  
So the mask is more of an intermediary and not a virus destroyer.

 

Again, the consensus before March was that it doesn’t limit the cloud – it just 
moves the cloud around.  I’m not aware of any evidence that has shown a cloth 
mask has any benefit for slowing virus spread in communities.  Maybe one day we 
will have some kind of force field bubble that can actually do that.  The 
plastic barriers are another example – coronaviruses survive quite well on 
these surfaces so it might be having an overall opposite effect of the intended 
purpose of slowing spread.

 

So, anyways, I will continue to wear a mask when requested by business owners 
and other private property owners.  I just don’t think it is doing much besides 
making folks feel like they are doing something even if they aren’t.  Absent 
the force field bubble, the only way to stop transmission is to isolate humans, 
but that’s a whole other can of worms…

 

From: Forrest Christian (List Account)
Sent: Tuesday, October 27, 2020 10:01 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] WISPs & Covid at 8 months and counting

 

Wearing a face mask provides very little protection for the wearer from the 
virus.   This fact is what the anti-maskers tend to spout over and over and 
over again.  And it's true.If you're wearing a mask to prevent yourself 
from catching the virus, well, you're effectively in the category of "something 
is better than nothing, but not much".

 

However, what has changed is that we are dealing with a virus that seems to be 
quite contagious before symptoms appear.   As a result, if we can limit the 
amount of virus floating around in the 'cloud' around people who are contagious 
but don't know it that will help.   For this, masks are *very* effective, even 
cloth ones although of course some are better than others.   There are quite a 
few videos out on the net from various organizations that have simulated this 
in various ways.

 

For example:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DNeYfUTA11s 

 

 

A mask doesn't prevent the virus from getting out, what it does is limit the 
size of the cloud around people, with much of the moist

Re: [AFMUG] Used PacketFlux SyncBox 12

[Lewis Bergman]

I was looking at a SitemonitorBaseII the other day thinking I should throw
it away. I know nothing about it. Might be good, might be broken, might be
passworded. No idea. Want it?

On Wed, Oct 28, 2020 at 9:37 AM Paul McCall via AF  wrote:

> Anybody have a couple of these they are not using that they want to part
> with?  (will pay)
>
>
>
> We have one in service in our network and need a couple spares.
>
>
>
> Paul
>
>
>
> *Paul McCall, President *
>
> *Florida Broadband / PDMNet*
>
> *658 Old Dixie Highway*
>
> *Vero Beach, FL 32962*
>
> *772-564-6800*
>
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>


-- 
Lewis Bergman
325-439-0533 Cell
-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] WISPs & Covid at 8 months and counting

[chuck]

I thought it was funny too.  I was always curious as to why he had a brand of 
vodka but bragged that he never drank.  I guess anything for a buck.  

From: Bill Prince 
Sent: Wednesday, October 28, 2020 9:15 AM
To: af@af.afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] WISPs & Covid at 8 months and counting

This is humor to me:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p58I3Xs0v-c


bp
On 10/28/2020 8:07 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote:

  I assume this is humor:

  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BU-ck7GNclc

   

  but this may not be:

  https://www.myshreddies.com/

   

   

  From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com On Behalf Of Robert
  Sent: Wednesday, October 28, 2020 9:53 AM
  To: af@af.afmug.com
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] WISPs & Covid at 8 months and counting

   

  & not a place I would like to spend any time...

  On 10/28/20 7:02 AM, Harold Bledsoe wrote:

LOL – I’ve been to places where that is actually common.  :-/

 

 

From: Adam Moffett
Sent: Wednesday, October 28, 2020 8:49 AM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] WISPs & Covid at 8 months and counting

 

I guess since diapers don't stop farts just let the baby poop on the floor.

 

On 10/28/2020 9:31 AM, Harold Bledsoe wrote:

  I think those videos are interesting but they may not be that relevant to 
virus transmission.  Those videos deal droplet-sized (and bigger) emissions.  
Aerosols can’t be seen on high-speed camera because they are too small.  I 
heard a funny analogy that stopping virus spread with a mask is like stopping a 
fart with a diaper.  Also not fully accurate but funny.

   

  Is there benefit from stopping large droplets?  That is the question.  So 
what happens to even the large droplets that get trapped in a cloth mask?  The 
droplets themselves will start to evaporate and eventually you are left with 
aerosol sized or just the virus particles themselves.  They don’t just 
disappear right?  Now when you inhale/exhale the virus is small enough to 
escape from the mask.  And when you touch the mask, you move virus to whatever 
you touch after that.  And you bring it back to your car or house or whatever 
because most people are not disposing of masks or properly disinfecting them.  
So the mask is more of an intermediary and not a virus destroyer.

   

  Again, the consensus before March was that it doesn’t limit the cloud – 
it just moves the cloud around.  I’m not aware of any evidence that has shown a 
cloth mask has any benefit for slowing virus spread in communities.  Maybe one 
day we will have some kind of force field bubble that can actually do that.  
The plastic barriers are another example – coronaviruses survive quite well on 
these surfaces so it might be having an overall opposite effect of the intended 
purpose of slowing spread.

   

  So, anyways, I will continue to wear a mask when requested by business 
owners and other private property owners.  I just don’t think it is doing much 
besides making folks feel like they are doing something even if they aren’t.  
Absent the force field bubble, the only way to stop transmission is to isolate 
humans, but that’s a whole other can of worms…

   

  From: Forrest Christian (List Account)
  Sent: Tuesday, October 27, 2020 10:01 PM
  To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] WISPs & Covid at 8 months and counting

   

  Wearing a face mask provides very little protection for the wearer from 
the virus.   This fact is what the anti-maskers tend to spout over and over and 
over again.  And it's true.If you're wearing a mask to prevent yourself 
from catching the virus, well, you're effectively in the category of "something 
is better than nothing, but not much".

   

  However, what has changed is that we are dealing with a virus that seems 
to be quite contagious before symptoms appear.   As a result, if we can limit 
the amount of virus floating around in the 'cloud' around people who are 
contagious but don't know it that will help.   For this, masks are *very* 
effective, even cloth ones although of course some are better than others.   
There are quite a few videos out on the net from various organizations that 
have simulated this in various ways.

   

  For example:

   

  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DNeYfUTA11s

   

  A mask doesn't prevent the virus from getting out, what it does is limit 
the size of the cloud around people, with much of the moisture particles (which 
contain the virus) being caught by the mask.So, as is said over and over, 
wearing a mask is to protect everyone around you, not you.

   

   

   

   

  On Tue, Oct 27, 2020 at 1:22 PM Harold Bledsoe  
wrote:

I also follow a simple rule that if a business/home owner requires a 
mask, it is their property and their right to require it.  So, wear it.

 

That said, I do think it is unfortunate that anyon

Re: [AFMUG] WISPs & Covid at 8 months and counting

[Bill Prince]

  
  
This is humor to me:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p58I3Xs0v-c

bp

On 10/28/2020 8:07 AM, Ken Hohhof
  wrote:


  
  
  
  
  
I assume this is humor:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BU-ck7GNclc
 
but this may not be:
https://www.myshreddies.com/
 
 

  
From: AF
   On Behalf Of Robert
  Sent: Wednesday, October 28, 2020 9:53 AM
  To: af@af.afmug.com
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] WISPs & Covid at 8 months
  and counting
  

 
& not a place I would like to
  spend any time...

  On 10/28/20 7:02 AM, Harold Bledsoe
wrote:


  LOL – I’ve been to places where that is
actually common.  :-/
   
   
  
From: Adam
Moffett
  Sent: Wednesday, October 28, 2020 8:49 AM
  To: af@af.afmug.com
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] WISPs & Covid at 8 months
  and counting
  
   
  I guess since diapers don't stop farts just let the baby
poop on the floor.
   
  
On 10/28/2020 9:31 AM, Harold Bledsoe
  wrote:
  
  
I think those videos are interesting
  but they may not be that relevant to virus transmission. 
  Those videos deal droplet-sized (and bigger) emissions. 
  Aerosols can’t be seen on high-speed camera because they
  are too small.  I heard a funny analogy that stopping
  virus spread with a mask is like stopping a fart with a
  diaper.  Also not fully accurate but funny.
 
Is there benefit from stopping large
  droplets?  That is the question.  So what happens to even
  the large droplets that get trapped in a cloth mask?  The
  droplets themselves will start to evaporate and eventually
  you are left with aerosol sized or just the virus
  particles themselves.  They don’t just disappear right? 
  Now when you inhale/exhale the virus is small enough to
  escape from the mask.  And when you touch the mask, you
  move virus to whatever you touch after that.  And you
  bring it back to your car or house or whatever because
  most people are not disposing of masks or properly
  disinfecting them.  So the mask is more of an intermediary
  and not a virus destroyer.
 
Again, the consensus before March was
  that it doesn’t limit the cloud – it just moves the cloud
  around.  I’m not aware of any evidence that has shown a
  cloth mask has any benefit for slowing virus spread in
  communities.  Maybe one day we will have some kind of
  force field bubble that can actually do that.  The plastic
  barriers are another example – coronaviruses survive quite
  well on these surfaces so it might be having an overall
  opposite effect of the intended purpose of slowing spread.
 
So, anyways, I will continue to wear a
  mask when requested by business owners and other private
  property owners.  I just don’t think it is doing much
  besides making folks feel like they are doing something
  even if they aren’t.  Absent the force field bubble, the
  only way to stop transmission is to isolate humans, but
  that’s a whole other can of worms…
 

  From: Forrest Christian (List
  Account)
Sent: Tuesday, October 27, 2020 10:01 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users
  Group
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] WISPs & Covid at 8
months and counting

 

  
Wearing a face mask provides very
  little protection for the wearer from the virus. 
   This fact is what the anti-maskers tend to spout over
  and over and over again.  And it's true.    If you're
  wearing a mask to prevent yourself from catching the
  virus, well, you're effectively in the category of
  "something is better than nothing, but not much".
  
  
 
  
  
However, what has changed is that
  we are dealing with a virus that seems to be quite
  contagious before symptoms appear.   As a result, if
  we can limit the amount of virus floating aroun

Re: [AFMUG] WISPs & Covid at 8 months and counting

[Bill Prince]

  
  
That is a very interesting visual/metaphor.
bp

On 10/28/2020 8:04 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com
  wrote:


  
  

  One thing I read, probably on the interwebs so it is sure
to be true, is that the virus cannot get around without
being attached to a droplet.  Which may be what you are
saying here.  The virus is small but the transport vehicle
droplets are large enough to be trapped by masks.  So more
like small turd particles trapped by the diaper.  
  

   
  
From: Robert 
Sent: Wednesday, October 28, 2020 8:46 AM
To: af@af.afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] WISPs & Covid at 8
  months and counting
  

 
  
  

On 10/28/20 6:31 AM, Harold
  Bledsoe wrote:


  
  
  
    They don’t just disappear
right?   
  

Yes they do.   The virus is liquid wrapped and is subject to
evaporation which destroys the rna.   That is what makes it
safer to be in the open outside with it warm.   The moist
environment inside of the mask may make them stay, but when
they get by the mask in small particles it's a
temperature/wind/UV issue as to how long they last and the
shorter distance they spread in that time, the less chance
they have to expose someone to a contagious dose or multiple
sub-contagious doses before they evaporate.


  

  
>
> Unfortunately attitudes sometimes take a
generation to change.  When I 
> was young, people smoked everywhere, then they
started having 
> designated smoking areas, now smokers are
pariahs.  Used to be, if 
> your dog pooped on someone else’s lawn, you
left it for them to pick 
> up.  People used to chew tobacco and spit on
the sidewalk.  Buffets 
> didn’t used to have sneezeguards.  It took
Seinfeld to make “double 
> dipping” a taboo.  Other things like seatbelts
and child seats have 
> gone from controversial to the societal norm. 
Probably motorcycle 
> helmets are the exception, mostly because the
only harm to others is 
> they have to see your brains all over the road
if you get in an accident.
>
> It’s interesting how worked up some people get
at women breastfeeding 
> in public, but asking that you wear a piece of
cloth over your nose 
> and mouth when indoors and within close
proximity to others while 
> there is a highly infectious respiratory
disease circulating, well, 
> that’s an intolerable infringement on your
freedom.
>
> Even the stores with the “no shoes, no shirt,
no service” policy, 
> where was the outrage over that? What about
restaurants that require 
> men to wear a coat and tie?  I’m not a big fan,
but hey, your house, 
> your rules.
>
> We seem to have lost the ability to respect
others.  Like covering 
> your head or taking off your shoes when going
into some houses of 
> worship, that’s not a violation of your
freedom, it’s respecting others.
>
> With the Covid pandemic, though, I don’t think
we have time to wait a 
> generation.  Think of all the people who died
waiting decades for 
> cigarettes to become uncool.  I will say, when
I see the young kids in 
> stores and other public places with masks, they
seem to think it’s no 
> different than wearing underwear or shoes.  The
next generation will 
> probably wonder what all the fuss was about. I
just hope the 50% of 
> pe

Re: [AFMUG] WISPs & Covid at 8 months and counting

[Ken Hohhof]

I assume this is humor:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BU-ck7GNclc

 

but this may not be:

https://www.myshreddies.com/

 

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of Robert
Sent: Wednesday, October 28, 2020 9:53 AM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] WISPs & Covid at 8 months and counting

 

& not a place I would like to spend any time...

On 10/28/20 7:02 AM, Harold Bledsoe wrote:

LOL – I’ve been to places where that is actually common.  :-/

 

 

From: Adam Moffett  
Sent: Wednesday, October 28, 2020 8:49 AM
To: af@af.afmug.com  
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] WISPs & Covid at 8 months and counting

 

I guess since diapers don't stop farts just let the baby poop on the floor.

 

On 10/28/2020 9:31 AM, Harold Bledsoe wrote:

I think those videos are interesting but they may not be that relevant to virus 
transmission.  Those videos deal droplet-sized (and bigger) emissions.  
Aerosols can’t be seen on high-speed camera because they are too small.  I 
heard a funny analogy that stopping virus spread with a mask is like stopping a 
fart with a diaper.  Also not fully accurate but funny.

 

Is there benefit from stopping large droplets?  That is the question.  So what 
happens to even the large droplets that get trapped in a cloth mask?  The 
droplets themselves will start to evaporate and eventually you are left with 
aerosol sized or just the virus particles themselves.  They don’t just 
disappear right?  Now when you inhale/exhale the virus is small enough to 
escape from the mask.  And when you touch the mask, you move virus to whatever 
you touch after that.  And you bring it back to your car or house or whatever 
because most people are not disposing of masks or properly disinfecting them.  
So the mask is more of an intermediary and not a virus destroyer.

 

Again, the consensus before March was that it doesn’t limit the cloud – it just 
moves the cloud around.  I’m not aware of any evidence that has shown a cloth 
mask has any benefit for slowing virus spread in communities.  Maybe one day we 
will have some kind of force field bubble that can actually do that.  The 
plastic barriers are another example – coronaviruses survive quite well on 
these surfaces so it might be having an overall opposite effect of the intended 
purpose of slowing spread.

 

So, anyways, I will continue to wear a mask when requested by business owners 
and other private property owners.  I just don’t think it is doing much besides 
making folks feel like they are doing something even if they aren’t.  Absent 
the force field bubble, the only way to stop transmission is to isolate humans, 
but that’s a whole other can of worms…

 

From: Forrest Christian (List Account)  
Sent: Tuesday, October 27, 2020 10:01 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group  
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] WISPs & Covid at 8 months and counting

 

Wearing a face mask provides very little protection for the wearer from the 
virus.   This fact is what the anti-maskers tend to spout over and over and 
over again.  And it's true.If you're wearing a mask to prevent yourself 
from catching the virus, well, you're effectively in the category of "something 
is better than nothing, but not much".

 

However, what has changed is that we are dealing with a virus that seems to be 
quite contagious before symptoms appear.   As a result, if we can limit the 
amount of virus floating around in the 'cloud' around people who are contagious 
but don't know it that will help.   For this, masks are *very* effective, even 
cloth ones although of course some are better than others.   There are quite a 
few videos out on the net from various organizations that have simulated this 
in various ways.

 

For example:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DNeYfUTA11s 

 

 

A mask doesn't prevent the virus from getting out, what it does is limit the 
size of the cloud around people, with much of the moisture particles (which 
contain the virus) being caught by the mask.So, as is said over and over, 
wearing a mask is to protect everyone around you, not you.

 

 

 

 

On Tue, Oct 27, 2020 at 1:22 PM Harold Bledsoe mailto:hrbled...@outlook.com> > wrote:

I also follow a simple rule that if a business/home owner requires a mask, it 
is their property and their right to require it.  So, wear it.

 

That said, I do think it is unfortunate that anyone that questions the efficacy 
of mask use in the general population is assumed to be one of the “it’s a hoax” 
people right off the bat.  Masks have been around 

Re: [AFMUG] WISPs & Covid at 8 months and counting

[chuck]

One thing I read, probably on the interwebs so it is sure to be true, is that 
the virus cannot get around without being attached to a droplet.  Which may be 
what you are saying here.  The virus is small but the transport vehicle 
droplets are large enough to be trapped by masks.  So more like small turd 
particles trapped by the diaper.  

From: Robert 
Sent: Wednesday, October 28, 2020 8:46 AM
To: af@af.afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] WISPs & Covid at 8 months and counting




On 10/28/20 6:31 AM, Harold Bledsoe wrote:

They don’t just disappear right?   

Yes they do.   The virus is liquid wrapped and is subject to evaporation which 
destroys the rna.   That is what makes it safer to be in the open outside with 
it warm.   The moist environment inside of the mask may make them stay, but 
when they get by the mask in small particles it's a temperature/wind/UV issue 
as to how long they last and the shorter distance they spread in that time, the 
less chance they have to expose someone to a contagious dose or multiple 
sub-contagious doses before they evaporate.



  >
  > Unfortunately attitudes sometimes take a generation to change.  When I 
  > was young, people smoked everywhere, then they started having 
  > designated smoking areas, now smokers are pariahs.  Used to be, if 
  > your dog pooped on someone else’s lawn, you left it for them to pick 
  > up.  People used to chew tobacco and spit on the sidewalk.  Buffets 
  > didn’t used to have sneezeguards.  It took Seinfeld to make “double 
  > dipping” a taboo.  Other things like seatbelts and child seats have 
  > gone from controversial to the societal norm.  Probably motorcycle 
  > helmets are the exception, mostly because the only harm to others is 
  > they have to see your brains all over the road if you get in an accident.
  >
  > It’s interesting how worked up some people get at women breastfeeding 
  > in public, but asking that you wear a piece of cloth over your nose 
  > and mouth when indoors and within close proximity to others while 
  > there is a highly infectious respiratory disease circulating, well, 
  > that’s an intolerable infringement on your freedom.
  >
  > Even the stores with the “no shoes, no shirt, no service” policy, 
  > where was the outrage over that? What about restaurants that require 
  > men to wear a coat and tie?  I’m not a big fan, but hey, your house, 
  > your rules.
  >
  > We seem to have lost the ability to respect others.  Like covering 
  > your head or taking off your shoes when going into some houses of 
  > worship, that’s not a violation of your freedom, it’s respecting others.
  >
  > With the Covid pandemic, though, I don’t think we have time to wait a 
  > generation.  Think of all the people who died waiting decades for 
  > cigarettes to become uncool.  I will say, when I see the young kids in 
  > stores and other public places with masks, they seem to think it’s no 
  > different than wearing underwear or shoes.  The next generation will 
  > probably wonder what all the fuss was about. I just hope the 50% of 
  > people who are saying they won’t get the vaccine when it comes out 
  > change their mind, I’ve heard numbers like 80% will probably need to 
  > get it, or we’ll be wearing masks forever.  Even so, nobody knows if 
  > the shots will last 3 months or a year or longer.  I’ve mostly never 
  > gotten flu shots, but we’ll probably need to get Covid shots every 
  > year forever.  I don’t see it getting eradicated like smallpox.
  >
  > *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Jaime Solorza
  > *Sent:* Monday, October 26, 2020 4:45 PM
  > *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
  > *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] WISPs & Covid at 8 months and counting
  >
  > Stay safe guys.  We have my cousins husband die from it two weeks 
  > ago...33 years old  .
  >
  > My wife wears N95 masks, gloves, face shields , goggles, full ppe garb 
  > at work everydayshe changes out in our back porch, including 
  > shoes...we spray them with Lysol...showers as soon as she comes inside 
  > home..
  >
  > She has diabetes...
  >
  > I am about to hit 65 in November...taking no chances
  >
  > On Mon, Oct 26, 2020, 3:37 PM Bill Prince  > wrote:
  >
  > We spent the last week at Lake Tahoe. Almost everywhere we went
  > mask wearing was near 100%, until Friday, we went to a restaurant
  > for lunch. They had set up booths outdoors with plexiglass
  > dividers and plenty of distance. all the employees wore masks;
  > they even provided a virtual menu via a QR Code that was on a card
  > on the table (so far so good).
  >
  > When it came time to leave, my partner had to visit the restroom.
  > She had to walk past the bar, where she said they were crowded, 
  > shoulder to shoulder, and zero masks. As Tony Fauci commented
  > "Nothing good is going to come from that."
  >
  > I'm a 70-year-old guy, and while I think I'm in pretty good shape,
  >   

Re: [AFMUG] WISPs & Covid at 8 months and counting

[Robert]

& not a place I would like to spend any time...

On 10/28/20 7:02 AM, Harold Bledsoe wrote:


LOL – I’ve been to places where that is actually common.  :-/

*From: *Adam Moffett 
*Sent: *Wednesday, October 28, 2020 8:49 AM
*To: *af@af.afmug.com 
*Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] WISPs & Covid at 8 months and counting

I guess since diapers don't stop farts just let the baby poop on the 
floor.


On 10/28/2020 9:31 AM, Harold Bledsoe wrote:

I think those videos are interesting but they may not be that
relevant to virus transmission.  Those videos deal droplet-sized
(and bigger) emissions.  Aerosols can’t be seen on high-speed
camera because they are too small.  I heard a funny analogy that
stopping virus spread with a mask is like stopping a fart with a
diaper.  Also not fully accurate but funny.

Is there benefit from stopping large droplets?  That is the
question.  So what happens to even the large droplets that get
trapped in a cloth mask?  The droplets themselves will start to
evaporate and eventually you are left with aerosol sized or just
the virus particles themselves.  They don’t just disappear right? 
Now when you inhale/exhale the virus is small enough to escape
from the mask.  And when you touch the mask, you move virus to
whatever you touch after that.  And you bring it back to your car
or house or whatever because most people are not disposing of
masks or properly disinfecting them.  So the mask is more of an
intermediary and not a virus destroyer.

Again, the consensus before March was that it doesn’t limit the
cloud – it just moves the cloud around.  I’m not aware of any
evidence that has shown a cloth mask has any benefit for slowing
virus spread in communities.  Maybe one day we will have some kind
of force field bubble that can actually do that.  The plastic
barriers are another example – coronaviruses survive quite well on
these surfaces so it might be having an overall opposite effect of
the intended purpose of slowing spread.

So, anyways, I will continue to wear a mask when requested by
business owners and other private property owners.  I just don’t
think it is doing much besides making folks feel like they are
doing something even if they aren’t.  Absent the force field
bubble, the only way to stop transmission is to isolate humans,
but that’s a whole other can of worms…

*From: *Forrest Christian (List Account) 
*Sent: *Tuesday, October 27, 2020 10:01 PM
*To: *AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
*Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] WISPs & Covid at 8 months and counting

Wearing a face mask provides very little protection for the wearer
from the virus.   This fact is what the anti-maskers tend to spout
over and over and over again.  And it's true.    If you're wearing
a mask to prevent yourself from catching the virus, well, you're
effectively in the category of "something is better than nothing,
but not much".

However, what has changed is that we are dealing with a virus that
seems to be quite contagious before symptoms appear.   As a
result, if we can limit the amount of virus floating around in the
'cloud' around people who are contagious but don't know it that
will help.   For this, masks are *very* effective, even cloth ones
although of course some are better than others.   There are quite
a few videos out on the net from various organizations that have
simulated this in various ways.

For example:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DNeYfUTA11s



A mask doesn't prevent the virus from getting out, what it does is
limit the size of the cloud around people, with much of the
moisture particles (which contain the virus) being caught by the
mask. So, as is said over and over, wearing a mask is to protect
everyone around you, not you.

On Tue, Oct 27, 2020 at 1:22 PM Harold Bledsoe
mailto:hrbled...@outlook.com>> wrote:

I also follow a simple rule that if a business/home owner
requires a mask, it is their property and their right to
require it.  So, wear it.

That said, I do think it is unfortunate that anyone that
questions the efficacy of mask use in the general population
is assumed to be one of the “it’s a hoax” people right off the
bat.  Masks have been around for a hundred years and up until
March or so of this year, it was gen

Re: [AFMUG] WISPs & Covid at 8 months and counting

[Robert]

On 10/28/20 6:31 AM, Harold Bledsoe wrote:

  They don’t just disappear right?
Yes they do.   The virus is liquid wrapped and is subject to evaporation 
which destroys the rna.   That is what makes it safer to be in the open 
outside with it warm.   The moist environment inside of the mask may 
make them stay, but when they get by the mask in small particles it's a 
temperature/wind/UV issue as to how long they last and the shorter 
distance they spread in that time, the less chance they have to expose 
someone to a contagious dose or multiple sub-contagious doses before 
they evaporate.




>
> Unfortunately attitudes sometimes take a generation to change.  When I
> was young, people smoked everywhere, then they started having
> designated smoking areas, now smokers are pariahs. Used to be, if
> your dog pooped on someone else’s lawn, you left it for them to pick
> up.  People used to chew tobacco and spit on the sidewalk.  Buffets
> didn’t used to have sneezeguards.  It took Seinfeld to make “double
> dipping” a taboo.  Other things like seatbelts and child seats have
> gone from controversial to the societal norm.  Probably motorcycle
> helmets are the exception, mostly because the only harm to others is
> they have to see your brains all over the road if you get in an 
accident.

>
> It’s interesting how worked up some people get at women breastfeeding
> in public, but asking that you wear a piece of cloth over your nose
> and mouth when indoors and within close proximity to others while
> there is a highly infectious respiratory disease circulating, well,
> that’s an intolerable infringement on your freedom.
>
> Even the stores with the “no shoes, no shirt, no service” policy,
> where was the outrage over that? What about restaurants that require
> men to wear a coat and tie?  I’m not a big fan, but hey, your house,
> your rules.
>
> We seem to have lost the ability to respect others. Like covering
> your head or taking off your shoes when going into some houses of
> worship, that’s not a violation of your freedom, it’s respecting others.
>
> With the Covid pandemic, though, I don’t think we have time to wait a
> generation.  Think of all the people who died waiting decades for
> cigarettes to become uncool.  I will say, when I see the young kids in
> stores and other public places with masks, they seem to think it’s no
> different than wearing underwear or shoes.  The next generation will
> probably wonder what all the fuss was about. I just hope the 50% of
> people who are saying they won’t get the vaccine when it comes out
> change their mind, I’ve heard numbers like 80% will probably need to
> get it, or we’ll be wearing masks forever.  Even so, nobody knows if
> the shots will last 3 months or a year or longer.  I’ve mostly never
> gotten flu shots, but we’ll probably need to get Covid shots every
> year forever.  I don’t see it getting eradicated like smallpox.
>
> *From:* AF > *On Behalf Of *Jaime Solorza

> *Sent:* Monday, October 26, 2020 4:45 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group >

> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] WISPs & Covid at 8 months and counting
>
> Stay safe guys.  We have my cousins husband die from it two weeks
> ago...33 years old  .
>
> My wife wears N95 masks, gloves, face shields , goggles, full ppe garb
> at work everydayshe changes out in our back porch, including
> shoes...we spray them with Lysol...showers as soon as she comes inside
> home..
>
> She has diabetes...
>
> I am about to hit 65 in November...taking no chances
>
> On Mon, Oct 26, 2020, 3:37 PM Bill Prince 

> > wrote:
>
> We spent the last week at Lake Tahoe. Almost everywhere we went
> mask wearing was near 100%, until Friday, we went to a restaurant
> for lunch. They had set up booths outdoors with plexiglass
> dividers and plenty of distance. all the employees wore masks;
> they even provided a virtual menu via a QR Code that was on a card
> on the table (so far so good).
>
> When it came time to leave, my partner had to visit the restroom.
> She had to walk past the bar, where she said they were crowded,
> shoulder to shoulder, and zero masks. As Tony Fauci commented
> "Nothing good is going to come from that."
>
> I'm a 70-year-old guy, and while I think I'm in pretty good shape,
> I do not have ready access to any monoclonal antibodies, nor do I
> expect to in the next 6 months.
>
> bp
>
> 
>
> On 10/26/2020 2:20 PM, Jaime Solorza wrote:
>
> We are on a curfew watch and stay at home order fucking
> selfish people out at bars and restaurants, home parties...
>
> My son was in New Zealand for three months... they had their
> shit together.
>
> On Mon, Oct 26, 2020, 1:21 PM Matt Hoppes
> 

> 

Re: [AFMUG] WISPs & Covid at 8 months and counting

[Ken Hohhof]

Epidemiologists and public health departments must feel like every doctor whose 
patients come in having Googled their symptoms and consulted WebMD and of 
course listened to drug ads.

 

Although doctors probably did deserve to be taken down a notch from their 
pedestals.

 

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of Harold Bledsoe
Sent: Wednesday, October 28, 2020 9:03 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] WISPs & Covid at 8 months and counting

 

LOL – I’ve been to places where that is actually common.  :-/

 

 

From: Adam Moffett  
Sent: Wednesday, October 28, 2020 8:49 AM
To: af@af.afmug.com  
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] WISPs & Covid at 8 months and counting

 

I guess since diapers don't stop farts just let the baby poop on the floor.

 

On 10/28/2020 9:31 AM, Harold Bledsoe wrote:

I think those videos are interesting but they may not be that relevant to virus 
transmission.  Those videos deal droplet-sized (and bigger) emissions.  
Aerosols can’t be seen on high-speed camera because they are too small.  I 
heard a funny analogy that stopping virus spread with a mask is like stopping a 
fart with a diaper.  Also not fully accurate but funny.

 

Is there benefit from stopping large droplets?  That is the question.  So what 
happens to even the large droplets that get trapped in a cloth mask?  The 
droplets themselves will start to evaporate and eventually you are left with 
aerosol sized or just the virus particles themselves.  They don’t just 
disappear right?  Now when you inhale/exhale the virus is small enough to 
escape from the mask.  And when you touch the mask, you move virus to whatever 
you touch after that.  And you bring it back to your car or house or whatever 
because most people are not disposing of masks or properly disinfecting them.  
So the mask is more of an intermediary and not a virus destroyer.

 

Again, the consensus before March was that it doesn’t limit the cloud – it just 
moves the cloud around.  I’m not aware of any evidence that has shown a cloth 
mask has any benefit for slowing virus spread in communities.  Maybe one day we 
will have some kind of force field bubble that can actually do that.  The 
plastic barriers are another example – coronaviruses survive quite well on 
these surfaces so it might be having an overall opposite effect of the intended 
purpose of slowing spread.

 

So, anyways, I will continue to wear a mask when requested by business owners 
and other private property owners.  I just don’t think it is doing much besides 
making folks feel like they are doing something even if they aren’t.  Absent 
the force field bubble, the only way to stop transmission is to isolate humans, 
but that’s a whole other can of worms…

 

From: Forrest Christian (List Account)  
Sent: Tuesday, October 27, 2020 10:01 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group  
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] WISPs & Covid at 8 months and counting

 

Wearing a face mask provides very little protection for the wearer from the 
virus.   This fact is what the anti-maskers tend to spout over and over and 
over again.  And it's true.If you're wearing a mask to prevent yourself 
from catching the virus, well, you're effectively in the category of "something 
is better than nothing, but not much".

 

However, what has changed is that we are dealing with a virus that seems to be 
quite contagious before symptoms appear.   As a result, if we can limit the 
amount of virus floating around in the 'cloud' around people who are contagious 
but don't know it that will help.   For this, masks are *very* effective, even 
cloth ones although of course some are better than others.   There are quite a 
few videos out on the net from various organizations that have simulated this 
in various ways.

 

For example:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DNeYfUTA11s 

 

 

A mask doesn't prevent the virus from getting out, what it does is limit the 
size of the cloud around people, with much of the moisture particles (which 
contain the virus) being caught by the mask.So, as is said over and over, 
wearing a mask is to protect everyone around you, not you.

 

 

 

 

On Tue, Oct 27, 2020 at 1:22 PM Harold Bledsoe mailto:hrbled...@outlook.com> > wrote:

I also follow a simple rule that if a business/home owner requires a mask, it 
is their property and their right to require it.  So, wear it.

 

That said, I do think it is unfortunate that anyone that questions the efficacy 
of mask use in the general population is assume

Re: [AFMUG] WISPs & Covid at 8 months and counting

[Bill Prince]

  
  
All of us armchair quarterbacks probably don't have any real
  evidence one way or another WRT masks working or not.
The original recommendation back in March was specifically
  because there was such a shortage of masks that they thought if
  there was a run on them (and there was anyway) that all the
  healthcare workers would be left high and dry. That actually came,
  as in many areas healthcare workers were forced to reuse masks for
  multiple shifts. That situation has largely been eliminated.
Tony has consistently since then  recommended with good evidence
  that if everyone wore a mask, then the need for a vaccine would be
  significantly reduced. The CDC says the same.
So while I enjoy the amateur opinions posted on the list, I will
  go with Tony.


bp

On 10/28/2020 6:31 AM, Harold Bledsoe
  wrote:


  
  
  
  
  
I think those videos are interesting but
  they may not be that relevant to virus transmission.  Those
  videos deal droplet-sized (and bigger) emissions.  Aerosols
  can’t be seen on high-speed camera because they are too
  small.  I heard a funny analogy that stopping virus spread
  with a mask is like stopping a fart with a diaper.  Also not
  fully accurate but funny.
 
Is there benefit from stopping large
  droplets?  That is the question.  So what happens to even the
  large droplets that get trapped in a cloth mask?  The droplets
  themselves will start to evaporate and eventually you are left
  with aerosol sized or just the virus particles themselves. 
  They don’t just disappear right?  Now when you inhale/exhale
  the virus is small enough to escape from the mask.  And when
  you touch the mask, you move virus to whatever you touch after
  that.  And you bring it back to your car or house or whatever
  because most people are not disposing of masks or properly
  disinfecting them.  So the mask is more of an intermediary and
  not a virus destroyer.
 
Again, the consensus before March was that
  it doesn’t limit the cloud – it just moves the cloud around. 
  I’m not aware of any evidence that has shown a cloth mask has
  any benefit for slowing virus spread in communities.  Maybe
  one day we will have some kind of force field bubble that can
  actually do that.  The plastic barriers are another example –
  coronaviruses survive quite well on these surfaces so it might
  be having an overall opposite effect of the intended purpose
  of slowing spread.
 
So, anyways, I will continue to wear a mask
  when requested by business owners and other private property
  owners.  I just don’t think it is doing much besides making
  folks feel like they are doing something even if they aren’t. 
  Absent the force field bubble, the only way to stop
  transmission is to isolate humans, but that’s a whole other
  can of worms…
 

  From:
Forrest Christian (List Account)
Sent: Tuesday, October 27, 2020 10:01 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] WISPs & Covid at 8 months
and counting

 

  
Wearing a face mask provides very
  little protection for the wearer from the virus.   This
  fact is what the anti-maskers tend to spout over and over
  and over again.  And it's true.    If you're wearing a
  mask to prevent yourself from catching the virus, well,
  you're effectively in the category of "something is better
  than nothing, but not much".
  
  
 
  
  
However, what has changed is that we
  are dealing with a virus that seems to be quite
  contagious before symptoms appear.   As a result, if we
  can limit the amount of virus floating around in the
  'cloud' around people who are contagious but don't know it
  that will help.   For this, masks are *very* effective,
  even cloth ones although of course some are better than
  others.   There are quite a few videos out on the net from
  various organizations that have simulated this in various
  ways.
  
  
 
  
  
For example:
  
  
 
  
  
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DNeYfUTA11s
  
  
 
  
  
A mask doesn't prevent the virus from
  getting out, what it does is limit the size

[AFMUG] Used PacketFlux SyncBox 12

[Paul McCall via AF]

Anybody have a couple of these they are not using that they want to part with?  
(will pay)

We have one in service in our network and need a couple spares.

Paul

Paul McCall, President
Florida Broadband / PDMNet
658 Old Dixie Highway
Vero Beach, FL 32962
772-564-6800

-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] WISPs & Covid at 8 months and counting

[Harold Bledsoe]

LOL – I’ve been to places where that is actually common.  :-/


From: Adam Moffett
Sent: Wednesday, October 28, 2020 8:49 AM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] WISPs & Covid at 8 months and counting


I guess since diapers don't stop farts just let the baby poop on the floor.


On 10/28/2020 9:31 AM, Harold Bledsoe wrote:
I think those videos are interesting but they may not be that relevant to virus 
transmission.  Those videos deal droplet-sized (and bigger) emissions.  
Aerosols can’t be seen on high-speed camera because they are too small.  I 
heard a funny analogy that stopping virus spread with a mask is like stopping a 
fart with a diaper.  Also not fully accurate but funny.

Is there benefit from stopping large droplets?  That is the question.  So what 
happens to even the large droplets that get trapped in a cloth mask?  The 
droplets themselves will start to evaporate and eventually you are left with 
aerosol sized or just the virus particles themselves.  They don’t just 
disappear right?  Now when you inhale/exhale the virus is small enough to 
escape from the mask.  And when you touch the mask, you move virus to whatever 
you touch after that.  And you bring it back to your car or house or whatever 
because most people are not disposing of masks or properly disinfecting them.  
So the mask is more of an intermediary and not a virus destroyer.

Again, the consensus before March was that it doesn’t limit the cloud – it just 
moves the cloud around.  I’m not aware of any evidence that has shown a cloth 
mask has any benefit for slowing virus spread in communities.  Maybe one day we 
will have some kind of force field bubble that can actually do that.  The 
plastic barriers are another example – coronaviruses survive quite well on 
these surfaces so it might be having an overall opposite effect of the intended 
purpose of slowing spread.

So, anyways, I will continue to wear a mask when requested by business owners 
and other private property owners.  I just don’t think it is doing much besides 
making folks feel like they are doing something even if they aren’t.  Absent 
the force field bubble, the only way to stop transmission is to isolate humans, 
but that’s a whole other can of worms…

From: Forrest Christian (List Account)
Sent: Tuesday, October 27, 2020 10:01 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] WISPs & Covid at 8 months and counting

Wearing a face mask provides very little protection for the wearer from the 
virus.   This fact is what the anti-maskers tend to spout over and over and 
over again.  And it's true.If you're wearing a mask to prevent yourself 
from catching the virus, well, you're effectively in the category of "something 
is better than nothing, but not much".

However, what has changed is that we are dealing with a virus that seems to be 
quite contagious before symptoms appear.   As a result, if we can limit the 
amount of virus floating around in the 'cloud' around people who are contagious 
but don't know it that will help.   For this, masks are *very* effective, even 
cloth ones although of course some are better than others.   There are quite a 
few videos out on the net from various organizations that have simulated this 
in various ways.

For example:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DNeYfUTA11s

A mask doesn't prevent the virus from getting out, what it does is limit the 
size of the cloud around people, with much of the moisture particles (which 
contain the virus) being caught by the mask.So, as is said over and over, 
wearing a mask is to protect everyone around you, not you.




On Tue, Oct 27, 2020 at 1:22 PM Harold Bledsoe 
mailto:hrbled...@outlook.com>> wrote:
I also follow a simple rule that if a business/home owner requires a mask, it 
is their property and their right to require it.  So, wear it.

That said, I do think it is unfortunate that anyone that questions the efficacy 
of mask use in the general population is assumed to be one of the “it’s a hoax” 
people right off the bat.  Masks have been around for a hundred years and up 
until March or so of this year, it was generally accepted that mask wearing by 
the general population isn’t helpful.  So the logical question is, what changed?

If the reason to wear a mask is to hide my ugly face, then, ok, there’s a good 
argument there.  If it is for some kind of universal symbol to remind us to 
keep our distance from each other, then, again, ok that might work.  If we are 
all getting N-9

Re: [AFMUG] WISPs & Covid at 8 months and counting

[Adam Moffett]

I guess since diapers don't stop farts just let the baby poop on the floor.


On 10/28/2020 9:31 AM, Harold Bledsoe wrote:


I think those videos are interesting but they may not be that relevant 
to virus transmission.  Those videos deal droplet-sized (and bigger) 
emissions.  Aerosols can’t be seen on high-speed camera because they 
are too small.  I heard a funny analogy that stopping virus spread 
with a mask is like stopping a fart with a diaper.  Also not fully 
accurate but funny.


Is there benefit from stopping large droplets?  That is the question.  
So what happens to even the large droplets that get trapped in a cloth 
mask?  The droplets themselves will start to evaporate and eventually 
you are left with aerosol sized or just the virus particles 
themselves. They don’t just disappear right?  Now when you 
inhale/exhale the virus is small enough to escape from the mask.  And 
when you touch the mask, you move virus to whatever you touch after 
that.  And you bring it back to your car or house or whatever because 
most people are not disposing of masks or properly disinfecting them.  
So the mask is more of an intermediary and not a virus destroyer.


Again, the consensus before March was that it doesn’t limit the cloud 
– it just moves the cloud around. I’m not aware of any evidence that 
has shown a cloth mask has any benefit for slowing virus spread in 
communities.  Maybe one day we will have some kind of force field 
bubble that can actually do that.  The plastic barriers are another 
example – coronaviruses survive quite well on these surfaces so it 
might be having an overall opposite effect of the intended purpose of 
slowing spread.


So, anyways, I will continue to wear a mask when requested by business 
owners and other private property owners.  I just don’t think it is 
doing much besides making folks feel like they are doing something 
even if they aren’t. Absent the force field bubble, the only way to 
stop transmission is to isolate humans, but that’s a whole other can 
of worms…


*From: *Forrest Christian (List Account) 
*Sent: *Tuesday, October 27, 2020 10:01 PM
*To: *AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
*Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] WISPs & Covid at 8 months and counting

Wearing a face mask provides very little protection for the wearer 
from the virus.   This fact is what the anti-maskers tend to spout 
over and over and over again.  And it's true.    If you're wearing a 
mask to prevent yourself from catching the virus, well, you're 
effectively in the category of "something is better than nothing, but 
not much".


However, what has changed is that we are dealing with a virus that 
seems to be quite contagious before symptoms appear.   As a result, if 
we can limit the amount of virus floating around in the 'cloud' around 
people who are contagious but don't know it that will help.   For 
this, masks are *very* effective, even cloth ones although of course 
some are better than others.   There are quite a few videos out on the 
net from various organizations that have simulated this in various ways.


For example:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DNeYfUTA11s 



A mask doesn't prevent the virus from getting out, what it does is 
limit the size of the cloud around people, with much of the moisture 
particles (which contain the virus) being caught by the mask.    So, 
as is said over and over, wearing a mask is to protect everyone around 
you, not you.


On Tue, Oct 27, 2020 at 1:22 PM Harold Bledsoe > wrote:


I also follow a simple rule that if a business/home owner requires
a mask, it is their property and their right to require it.  So,
wear it.

That said, I do think it is unfortunate that anyone that questions
the efficacy of mask use in the general population is assumed to
be one of the “it’s a hoax” people right off the bat.  Masks have
been around for a hundred years and up until March or so of this
year, it was generally accepted that mask wearing by the general
population isn’t helpful.  So the logical question is, what changed?

If the reason to wear a mask is to hide my ugly face, then, ok,
there’s a good argument there.  If it is for some kind of
universal symbol to remind us to keep our distance from each
other, then, again, ok that might work.  If we are all getting
N-95 masks and will be properly disposing of them after each
encounter/location and doing proper disinfection afterwards – that
too could work.

But if the argument is that 

Re: [AFMUG] Windstream/BOB contact

[Mike Hammett]

The guy that I knew there left a few years ago. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Nate Burke"  
To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group"  
Sent: Tuesday, October 27, 2020 7:13:29 PM 
Subject: [AFMUG] Windstream/BOB contact 

Anyone from the BOB (Business only Broadband) side of Windstream still 
on this list? Have a question about a tower we're colocated with you on. 

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AF mailing list 
AF@af.afmug.com 
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com 

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Re: [AFMUG] Windstream/BOB contact

[Mike Hammett]

Original BOB wouldn't have been there. Did Windstream deploy fixed wireless 
down there? Even if they did, I'm not sure it was the BOB division. BOB was 
only in major metros, even with its expansion. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Jaime Solorza"  
To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group"  
Sent: Tuesday, October 27, 2020 8:56:48 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Windstream/BOB contact 


Looks like they are closing shop down here in the lower valley ... 


On Tue, Oct 27, 2020, 6:14 PM Nate Burke < n...@blastcomm.com > wrote: 


Anyone from the BOB (Business only Broadband) side of Windstream still 
on this list? Have a question about a tower we're colocated with you on. 

-- 
AF mailing list 
AF@af.afmug.com 
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com 



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AF@af.afmug.com 
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com 

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