Re: [AFMUG] FCC and residential antennas (OTARD)

[Daniel White]

You can give 100% of the credit to WISPA.  This was not on the FCC
agenda at all.  WISPA lobbied the FCC to turn it into an NPRM, how to
expand it, and why.  There was plenty of providers that put support
behind it... and of course the HOA lobbying groups fought against it but
we won the day.

It would have gone into effect sooner but it was caught up in the pause
the Biden administration imposed for any new regulation changes at the
beginning of the year.

If you are not a WISPA member... this is the type of stuff WISPA is
fighting for.

photograph  
Daniel White
Co-Founder
phone: +1 (702) 470-2770
direct:+1 (702) 470-2766

> Sterling Jacobson 
> August 25, 2021 at 17:45
>
> Yeah, more for governing entities like HOAs etc that try to regulate
> what the home owner can/wants to do with their own roof/property or
> access to broadband for their owned unit.
>
> You couldn’t just pick any random roof and install any random
> equipment on it under OTARD. The property owner still needs to be a
> willing participant and probably also served by the equipment at some
> capacity.
>
> But it does allow specifically now to re-distribute from that same
> owners property at some capacity. Which was sort of implied before
> under OTARD kind of, but now it’s specific and helpful for mini-pops.
>
>  
>
> Not sure if WISPA had a hand at crafting that with them, but someone
> deserves some credit for broadening OTARD.
>
>  
>
> I don’t think personally I would try and go against an HOA and try to
> get under specific contract or easement with all property owners and
> their governing bodies first.
>
>  
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of * Chuck McCown via AF
> *Sent:* Wednesday, August 25, 2021 5:21 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> *Cc:* Chuck McCown 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] FCC and residential antennas (OTARD)
>
>  
>
> I view this more to tell HOAs where to stuff it.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>
>
>
>
> Chuck McCown via AF 
> August 25, 2021 at 17:21
> I view this more to tell HOAs where to stuff it.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>
>
> Bill Prince 
> August 25, 2021 at 15:30
>
> That's not the way I read it. It prevents state & local governments
> from imposing restrictions, but leaves the decision making up to the
> people who are owners/operators.
>
>
> bp
> 
> On 8/25/2021 2:24 PM, Steve Jones wrote:
>
>

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Re: [AFMUG] Aviat WTM4200 Latency

[TJ Trout]

turn auto neg off, try flow control on and off. Check your light levels on
all 4 sfp's and make sure they are within spec, if not clean the fibers or
add an attenuator(s)

On Thu, Aug 26, 2021 at 12:20 PM Josh Baird  wrote:

> FWIW - we have a WTM4200 with a CCR2004 on one end and don't have that
> issue.
>
> On Thu, Aug 26, 2021 at 3:13 PM Joe Novak  wrote:
>
>> Test with anything other than a CCR2004. I'd be willing to bet on it
>> being the problem.
>>
>> On Thu, Aug 26, 2021 at 2:05 PM Jason McKemie <
>> j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Are you familiar with the Aviat radios?  I cannot seem to find anywhere
>>> to set flow control on the ethernet interfaces.
>>>
>>> On Thu, Aug 26, 2021 at 1:25 PM Colin Stanners 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 Have you tried Flow Control off/on, on both devices, at one end's
 Ethernet link? What model of MT router?

 On Thu, Aug 26, 2021, 1:20 PM Jason McKemie <
 j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com> wrote:

> I'm having an issue where about 3-8% of packets going through a
> WTM4200 link are seeing a 1-10ms spike in latency.  Aviat support is not
> being particularly helpful, they just say they're seeing CRC errors at
> one end and to replace the SFPs and cabling to see if that helps.  These
> have a fiber connection and are powered through the DC port.  The radios /
> SFPs / fiber at both ends are new.  I've already replaced the SFPs on the
> attached Mikrotik routers with Aviat SFPs with no change in the issue.
> Incidentally, I'm seeing the issue when I ping from the Mikrotik routers 
> to
> their respectively attached WTM - so the issue is both ends and not a
> single one.  Has anyone seen anything like this?
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Re: [AFMUG] Aviat WTM4200 Latency

[Josh Baird]

FWIW - we have a WTM4200 with a CCR2004 on one end and don't have that
issue.

On Thu, Aug 26, 2021 at 3:13 PM Joe Novak  wrote:

> Test with anything other than a CCR2004. I'd be willing to bet on it being
> the problem.
>
> On Thu, Aug 26, 2021 at 2:05 PM Jason McKemie <
> j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com> wrote:
>
>> Are you familiar with the Aviat radios?  I cannot seem to find anywhere
>> to set flow control on the ethernet interfaces.
>>
>> On Thu, Aug 26, 2021 at 1:25 PM Colin Stanners 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Have you tried Flow Control off/on, on both devices, at one end's
>>> Ethernet link? What model of MT router?
>>>
>>> On Thu, Aug 26, 2021, 1:20 PM Jason McKemie <
>>> j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com> wrote:
>>>
 I'm having an issue where about 3-8% of packets going through a WTM4200
 link are seeing a 1-10ms spike in latency.  Aviat support is not being
 particularly helpful, they just say they're seeing CRC errors at one end
 and to replace the SFPs and cabling to see if that helps.  These have a
 fiber connection and are powered through the DC port.  The radios / SFPs /
 fiber at both ends are new.  I've already replaced the SFPs on the attached
 Mikrotik routers with Aviat SFPs with no change in the issue.
 Incidentally, I'm seeing the issue when I ping from the Mikrotik routers to
 their respectively attached WTM - so the issue is both ends and not a
 single one.  Has anyone seen anything like this?
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Re: [AFMUG] Aviat WTM4200 Latency

[Joe Novak]

Test with anything other than a CCR2004. I'd be willing to bet on it being
the problem.

On Thu, Aug 26, 2021 at 2:05 PM Jason McKemie <
j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com> wrote:

> Are you familiar with the Aviat radios?  I cannot seem to find anywhere to
> set flow control on the ethernet interfaces.
>
> On Thu, Aug 26, 2021 at 1:25 PM Colin Stanners 
> wrote:
>
>> Have you tried Flow Control off/on, on both devices, at one end's
>> Ethernet link? What model of MT router?
>>
>> On Thu, Aug 26, 2021, 1:20 PM Jason McKemie <
>> j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com> wrote:
>>
>>> I'm having an issue where about 3-8% of packets going through a WTM4200
>>> link are seeing a 1-10ms spike in latency.  Aviat support is not being
>>> particularly helpful, they just say they're seeing CRC errors at one end
>>> and to replace the SFPs and cabling to see if that helps.  These have a
>>> fiber connection and are powered through the DC port.  The radios / SFPs /
>>> fiber at both ends are new.  I've already replaced the SFPs on the attached
>>> Mikrotik routers with Aviat SFPs with no change in the issue.
>>> Incidentally, I'm seeing the issue when I ping from the Mikrotik routers to
>>> their respectively attached WTM - so the issue is both ends and not a
>>> single one.  Has anyone seen anything like this?
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Re: [AFMUG] Aviat WTM4200 Latency

[Jason McKemie]

Are you familiar with the Aviat radios?  I cannot seem to find anywhere to
set flow control on the ethernet interfaces.

On Thu, Aug 26, 2021 at 1:25 PM Colin Stanners  wrote:

> Have you tried Flow Control off/on, on both devices, at one end's Ethernet
> link? What model of MT router?
>
> On Thu, Aug 26, 2021, 1:20 PM Jason McKemie <
> j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com> wrote:
>
>> I'm having an issue where about 3-8% of packets going through a WTM4200
>> link are seeing a 1-10ms spike in latency.  Aviat support is not being
>> particularly helpful, they just say they're seeing CRC errors at one end
>> and to replace the SFPs and cabling to see if that helps.  These have a
>> fiber connection and are powered through the DC port.  The radios / SFPs /
>> fiber at both ends are new.  I've already replaced the SFPs on the attached
>> Mikrotik routers with Aviat SFPs with no change in the issue.
>> Incidentally, I'm seeing the issue when I ping from the Mikrotik routers to
>> their respectively attached WTM - so the issue is both ends and not a
>> single one.  Has anyone seen anything like this?
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Re: [AFMUG] Aviat WTM4200 Latency

[Jason McKemie]

They're both brand new SFPs provided by Aviat.  I guess if they have
terrible quality control that could be the issue.  That solution would make
a lot more sense to me if it were just one end seeing the issues.  I may
have to at least attempt it if nothing else works, however.

On Thu, Aug 26, 2021 at 1:42 PM Steve Jones 
wrote:

> replace the sfp on both radios
> or use the copper port to rule out the latency coming from the rf
>
> On Thu, Aug 26, 2021 at 1:25 PM Colin Stanners 
> wrote:
>
>> Have you tried Flow Control off/on, on both devices, at one end's
>> Ethernet link? What model of MT router?
>>
>> On Thu, Aug 26, 2021, 1:20 PM Jason McKemie <
>> j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com> wrote:
>>
>>> I'm having an issue where about 3-8% of packets going through a WTM4200
>>> link are seeing a 1-10ms spike in latency.  Aviat support is not being
>>> particularly helpful, they just say they're seeing CRC errors at one end
>>> and to replace the SFPs and cabling to see if that helps.  These have a
>>> fiber connection and are powered through the DC port.  The radios / SFPs /
>>> fiber at both ends are new.  I've already replaced the SFPs on the attached
>>> Mikrotik routers with Aviat SFPs with no change in the issue.
>>> Incidentally, I'm seeing the issue when I ping from the Mikrotik routers to
>>> their respectively attached WTM - so the issue is both ends and not a
>>> single one.  Has anyone seen anything like this?
>>> --
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Re: [AFMUG] Aviat WTM4200 Latency

[Jason McKemie]

I have not tried that as of yet.  One end is a CCR1009, the other is a
CCR2004.  I could try Flow Control on one end to see if it makes a
difference.

On Thu, Aug 26, 2021 at 1:25 PM Colin Stanners  wrote:

> Have you tried Flow Control off/on, on both devices, at one end's Ethernet
> link? What model of MT router?
>
> On Thu, Aug 26, 2021, 1:20 PM Jason McKemie <
> j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com> wrote:
>
>> I'm having an issue where about 3-8% of packets going through a WTM4200
>> link are seeing a 1-10ms spike in latency.  Aviat support is not being
>> particularly helpful, they just say they're seeing CRC errors at one end
>> and to replace the SFPs and cabling to see if that helps.  These have a
>> fiber connection and are powered through the DC port.  The radios / SFPs /
>> fiber at both ends are new.  I've already replaced the SFPs on the attached
>> Mikrotik routers with Aviat SFPs with no change in the issue.
>> Incidentally, I'm seeing the issue when I ping from the Mikrotik routers to
>> their respectively attached WTM - so the issue is both ends and not a
>> single one.  Has anyone seen anything like this?
>> --
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Re: [AFMUG] Aviat WTM4200 Latency

[Steve Jones]

replace the sfp on both radios
or use the copper port to rule out the latency coming from the rf

On Thu, Aug 26, 2021 at 1:25 PM Colin Stanners  wrote:

> Have you tried Flow Control off/on, on both devices, at one end's Ethernet
> link? What model of MT router?
>
> On Thu, Aug 26, 2021, 1:20 PM Jason McKemie <
> j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com> wrote:
>
>> I'm having an issue where about 3-8% of packets going through a WTM4200
>> link are seeing a 1-10ms spike in latency.  Aviat support is not being
>> particularly helpful, they just say they're seeing CRC errors at one end
>> and to replace the SFPs and cabling to see if that helps.  These have a
>> fiber connection and are powered through the DC port.  The radios / SFPs /
>> fiber at both ends are new.  I've already replaced the SFPs on the attached
>> Mikrotik routers with Aviat SFPs with no change in the issue.
>> Incidentally, I'm seeing the issue when I ping from the Mikrotik routers to
>> their respectively attached WTM - so the issue is both ends and not a
>> single one.  Has anyone seen anything like this?
>> --
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Re: [AFMUG] Aviat WTM4200 Latency

[Colin Stanners]

Have you tried Flow Control off/on, on both devices, at one end's Ethernet
link? What model of MT router?

On Thu, Aug 26, 2021, 1:20 PM Jason McKemie <
j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com> wrote:

> I'm having an issue where about 3-8% of packets going through a WTM4200
> link are seeing a 1-10ms spike in latency.  Aviat support is not being
> particularly helpful, they just say they're seeing CRC errors at one end
> and to replace the SFPs and cabling to see if that helps.  These have a
> fiber connection and are powered through the DC port.  The radios / SFPs /
> fiber at both ends are new.  I've already replaced the SFPs on the attached
> Mikrotik routers with Aviat SFPs with no change in the issue.
> Incidentally, I'm seeing the issue when I ping from the Mikrotik routers to
> their respectively attached WTM - so the issue is both ends and not a
> single one.  Has anyone seen anything like this?
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[AFMUG] Aviat WTM4200 Latency

[Jason McKemie]

I'm having an issue where about 3-8% of packets going through a WTM4200
link are seeing a 1-10ms spike in latency.  Aviat support is not being
particularly helpful, they just say they're seeing CRC errors at one end
and to replace the SFPs and cabling to see if that helps.  These have a
fiber connection and are powered through the DC port.  The radios / SFPs /
fiber at both ends are new.  I've already replaced the SFPs on the attached
Mikrotik routers with Aviat SFPs with no change in the issue.
Incidentally, I'm seeing the issue when I ping from the Mikrotik routers to
their respectively attached WTM - so the issue is both ends and not a
single one.  Has anyone seen anything like this?
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Re: [AFMUG] FCC and residential antennas (OTARD)

[Chuck McCown via AF]

But they can say don’t get on the roof for any reason.  Don’t dig a hole to 
mount a tower.  Don’t attach anything to anything.  

From: Adam Moffett 
Sent: Thursday, August 26, 2021 6:23 AM
To: af@af.afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] FCC and residential antennas (OTARD)

Property is still property.  A landlord can't tell the tenant "no antenna", but 
the landlord can say "no holes in my building."  


So kind of, but no not really.






On 8/25/2021 5:24 PM, Steve Jones wrote:

  Am I reading this shit right? Property owners can be forced to be transmit 
locations?

  On Wed, Aug 25, 2021, 4:07 PM Jacob Turner  wrote:

Yes:
https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/2021/02/25/2021-01304/fcc-modernizes-siting-rule-for-small-hub-and-relay-wireless-antennas



--
Jacob Turner 









On Wed, Aug 25, 2021 at 12:12 PM Robert Andrews  
wrote:

  There was a proposed modification to the FCC "blessings" for permitting 
  multiple antennas on residential buildings under OTARD.   Did that ever 
  go anywhere?

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Re: [AFMUG] FCC and residential antennas (OTARD)

[Adam Moffett]

Property is still property.  A landlord can't tell the tenant "no 
antenna", but the landlord can say "no holes in my building."


So kind of, but no not really.



On 8/25/2021 5:24 PM, Steve Jones wrote:
Am I reading this shit right? Property owners can be forced to be 
transmit locations?


On Wed, Aug 25, 2021, 4:07 PM Jacob Turner > wrote:


Yes:

https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/2021/02/25/2021-01304/fcc-modernizes-siting-rule-for-small-hub-and-relay-wireless-antennas



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On Wed, Aug 25, 2021 at 12:12 PM Robert Andrews
mailto:i...@avantwireless.com>> wrote:

There was a proposed modification to the FCC "blessings" for
permitting
multiple antennas on residential buildings under OTARD.  Did
that ever
go anywhere?

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