Re: [AFMUG] example land lease for tower construction

[Chuck McCown via AF]

I used to get tower space for $2 per sub.  That worked out pretty well.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Sep 20, 2021, at 3:15 PM, Adam Moffett  wrote:
> 
> 
> Our leases were for a rectangle with specific size and location.  I never 
> thought of leasing an unspecified amount of space, but yeah if that was done 
> then a person might be tempted to treat the leased area as being unlimited.
> 
> 
> 
> On 9/20/2021 4:42 PM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:
>> I have asked for more rent when I discovered they were occupying about 5X 
>> the foot print of the original installation.  I discovered a small building, 
>> backup generator, many more solar panels, large propane tank, fenced a large 
>> area etc.  Nothing in the original lease spelled out the original footprint. 
>>  But as I was the original landlord and the original tenant it was not a big 
>> deal.  When I sold the company that was the tenant then it became a big 
>> deal. 
>>  
>> From: Adam Moffett
>> Sent: Monday, September 20, 2021 1:36 PM
>> To: af@af.afmug.com
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] example land lease for tower construction
>>  
>> I don't have an example land lease agreement.  But these are some things 
>> that have come up.
>> 
>> 24/7 access without notice 
>> (some landowners want a phone call when you go up, sounds reasonable at 
>> first, but it becomes a nuisance)
>> 
>> Define the path/ROW for vehicle access and put it in writing in the lease, 
>> and physically mark it if it's not obvious.  Use orange fiberglass 
>> reflective stakes or similar.
>> (two different landowners have complained about techs driving across 
>> their hay.  In both cases there was an agreed upon path that could be driven 
>> on, but it's not marked and not obvious to a new technician.)
>> 
>> The lease is for the land, not what's on it.  One landowner insisted on more 
>> rent when more things went on the tower.  This didn't make sense to anyone 
>> except him, but apparently it needed to be spelled out.
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> I can think of a few other disputes, but they had nothing to do with what 
>> was in the lease but rather the fact that the landlord was a crazy person.
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> On 9/20/2021 11:00 AM, Steve Jones wrote:
>>> A buddy is looking for an example agreement that covers all the things you 
>>> wish you thought of the first lease.
>>>  
>>> this is for leasing ground to construct a tower on
>>> 
>>> 
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[AFMUG] ***SPAM*** Re: ***SPAM*** interesting...we installed several laser links in the 1990s...

[Robert]

Obviously a nigerian prince on one side trying to get the $$ back to the 
rightful owners..


On 9/20/21 1:16 PM, Nate Burke wrote:
So 700TB over 20 Days, that's about 4gb/s average.  I wonder what 
these are feeding on each end, that that amount of traffic suddenly 
turned on, or if it's literally extending an ISP on each end.  Or is 
this just test traffic.


On 9/20/2021 3:03 PM, Mathew Howard wrote:
Yeah... other than potentially being capable of more bandwidth, and 
maybe getting around some regulations, I can't imagine what advantage 
there would be.


On Mon, Sep 20, 2021 at 2:41 PM Adam Moffett > wrote:


There's a whiz-bang-wow factor for free space optics. I'm not
sure if there's any real technical advantage over millimeter wave
though.  None that I'm currently aware of.

-Adam


On 9/20/2021 12:12 PM, Mathew Howard wrote:

Seems to me like you're almost always going to be a lot better
off just using 80ghz (or even 60ghz, depending on
requirements)... I guess if you need more than 10Gbps it might
make sense, but otherwise, it seems like playing with this stuff
is just going to cause a lot of unnecessary headaches.

On Mon, Sep 20, 2021 at 10:13 AM Steve Jones
mailto:thatoneguyst...@gmail.com>>
wrote:

I hope its come along way. we did some and it was awful.
auto alignment had to be turned of because it would
sometimes just start adjusting and go out of alignment like
it was having a seizure. lens fogging was awful. We had one
where it would take a courthouse down roughly the same time
every day, finally tracked it to sun reflection off an
aluminum parapet. i had to haul a truck tarp up onto the
roof to cover the parapet to prove it. The only place for
lasers is in flexible glass

On Mon, Sep 20, 2021 at 9:16 AM Jaime Solorza
 wrote:

Yep...they tried one from a bank building in El Paso to
Juarez back in the late 1990s...22 story building moved
too much...we ended up installing a 23Ghz link but from
another location.

On Mon, Sep 20, 2021, 6:24 AM Brian Webster
 wrote:

I would think now it would be easier to mount the
laser in a gyro stabilized gimbal to account for the
movement. In the 90’s that technology was not
affordable. Image stabilizing cameras exist, gyro
stabilized RC helicopters and drones are commonplace.

Thank you,

Brian Webster

www.wirelessmapping.com

*From:*AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] *On
Behalf Of *Chuck McCown via AF
*Sent:* Friday, September 17, 2021 8:16 PM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
*Cc:* Chuck McCown
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] ***SPAM*** interesting...we
installed several laser links in the 1990s...

I did too. Mexico City.  E1 data rate.  High rise
buildings.  Building movement was a problem.

Sent from my iPhone



On Sep 17, 2021, at 5:12 PM, Jaime Solorza
 wrote:




https://news.google.com/articles/CBMicGh0dHBzOi8vYXJzdGVjaG5pY2EuY29tL2dhZGdldHMvMjAyMS8wOS9hbHBoYWJldHMtbGFzZXItaW50ZXJuZXQtc3lzdGVtLWhhcy1zZW50LTcwMHRiLW9mLWRhdGEtd2l0aC05OS05LXVwdGltZS_SAXZodHRwczovL2Fyc3RlY2huaWNhLmNvbS9nYWRnZXRzLzIwMjEvMDkvYWxwaGFiZXRzLWxhc2VyLWludGVybmV0LXN5c3RlbS1oYXMtc2VudC03MDB0Yi1vZi1kYXRhLXdpdGgtOTktOS11cHRpbWUvP2FtcD0x?hl=en-US&gl=US&ceid=US%3Aen


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Re: [AFMUG] example land lease for tower construction

[Adam Moffett]

Our leases were for a rectangle with specific size and location. I never 
thought of leasing an unspecified amount of space, but yeah if that was 
done then a person might be tempted to treat the leased area as being 
unlimited.



On 9/20/2021 4:42 PM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:
I have asked for more rent when I discovered they were occupying about 
5X the foot print of the original installation.  I discovered a small 
building, backup generator, many more solar panels, large propane 
tank, fenced a large area etc.  Nothing in the original lease spelled 
out the original footprint.  But as I was the original landlord and 
the original tenant it was not a big deal.  When I sold the company 
that was the tenant then it became a big deal.

*From:* Adam Moffett
*Sent:* Monday, September 20, 2021 1:36 PM
*To:* af@af.afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] example land lease for tower construction

I don't have an example land lease agreement.  But these are some 
things that have come up.


24/7 access without notice
    (some landowners want a phone call when you go up, sounds 
reasonable at first, but it becomes a nuisance)


Define the path/ROW for vehicle access and put it in writing in the 
lease, and physically mark it if it's not obvious.  Use orange 
fiberglass reflective stakes or similar.
    (two different landowners have complained about techs driving 
across their hay.  In both cases there was an agreed upon path that 
could be driven on, but it's not marked and not obvious to a new 
technician.)


The lease is for the land, not what's on it.  One landowner insisted 
on more rent when more things went on the tower.  This didn't make 
sense to anyone except him, but apparently it needed to be spelled out.


I can think of a few other disputes, but they had nothing to do with 
what was in the lease but rather the fact that the landlord was a 
crazy person.


On 9/20/2021 11:00 AM, Steve Jones wrote:
A buddy is looking for an example agreement that covers all the 
things you wish you thought of the first lease.

this is for leasing ground to construct a tower on



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Re: [AFMUG] example land lease for tower construction

[Chuck McCown via AF]

I have asked for more rent when I discovered they were occupying about 5X the 
foot print of the original installation.  I discovered a small building, backup 
generator, many more solar panels, large propane tank, fenced a large area etc. 
 Nothing in the original lease spelled out the original footprint.  But as I 
was the original landlord and the original tenant it was not a big deal.  When 
I sold the company that was the tenant then it became a big deal.  

From: Adam Moffett 
Sent: Monday, September 20, 2021 1:36 PM
To: af@af.afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] example land lease for tower construction

I don't have an example land lease agreement.  But these are some things that 
have come up.


24/7 access without notice 
(some landowners want a phone call when you go up, sounds reasonable at 
first, but it becomes a nuisance)

Define the path/ROW for vehicle access and put it in writing in the lease, and 
physically mark it if it's not obvious.  Use orange fiberglass reflective 
stakes or similar.
(two different landowners have complained about techs driving across their 
hay.  In both cases there was an agreed upon path that could be driven on, but 
it's not marked and not obvious to a new technician.)

The lease is for the land, not what's on it.  One landowner insisted on more 
rent when more things went on the tower.  This didn't make sense to anyone 
except him, but apparently it needed to be spelled out.




I can think of a few other disputes, but they had nothing to do with what was 
in the lease but rather the fact that the landlord was a crazy person.




On 9/20/2021 11:00 AM, Steve Jones wrote:

  A buddy is looking for an example agreement that covers all the things you 
wish you thought of the first lease. 

  this is for leasing ground to construct a tower on

   



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Re: [AFMUG] ***SPAM*** interesting...we installed several laser links in the 1990s...

[Mathew Howard]

The article mentioned that the town on the other side of the river was
using a 400km fiber line that goes around the river (I would imagine it
goes to a lot of other places too...), so yeah, I'd say it's connecting two
existing ISPs

On Mon, Sep 20, 2021 at 3:17 PM Nate Burke  wrote:

> So 700TB over 20 Days, that's about 4gb/s average.  I wonder what these
> are feeding on each end, that that amount of traffic suddenly turned on, or
> if it's literally extending an ISP on each end.  Or is this just test
> traffic.
>
> On 9/20/2021 3:03 PM, Mathew Howard wrote:
>
> Yeah... other than potentially being capable of more bandwidth, and maybe
> getting around some regulations, I can't imagine what advantage there would
> be.
>
> On Mon, Sep 20, 2021 at 2:41 PM Adam Moffett  wrote:
>
>> There's a whiz-bang-wow factor for free space optics.  I'm not sure if
>> there's any real technical advantage over millimeter wave though.  None
>> that I'm currently aware of.
>>
>> -Adam
>>
>>
>> On 9/20/2021 12:12 PM, Mathew Howard wrote:
>>
>> Seems to me like you're almost always going to be a lot better off just
>> using 80ghz (or even 60ghz, depending on requirements)... I guess if you
>> need more than 10Gbps it might make sense, but otherwise, it seems like
>> playing with this stuff is just going to cause a lot of unnecessary
>> headaches.
>>
>> On Mon, Sep 20, 2021 at 10:13 AM Steve Jones 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I hope its come along way. we did some and it was awful. auto alignment
>>> had to be turned of because it would sometimes just start adjusting and go
>>> out of alignment like it was having a seizure. lens fogging was awful. We
>>> had one where it would take a courthouse down roughly the same time every
>>> day, finally tracked it to sun reflection off an aluminum parapet. i had to
>>> haul a truck tarp up onto the roof to cover the parapet to prove it. The
>>> only place for lasers is in flexible glass
>>>
>>> On Mon, Sep 20, 2021 at 9:16 AM Jaime Solorza <
>>> losguyswirel...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
 Yep...they tried one from a bank building in El Paso to Juarez back in
 the late 1990s...22 story building moved too much...we ended up installing
 a 23Ghz link but from another location.

 On Mon, Sep 20, 2021, 6:24 AM Brian Webster <
 i...@wirelessmapping.com> wrote:

> I would think now it would be easier to mount the laser in a gyro
> stabilized gimbal to account for the movement. In the 90’s that technology
> was not affordable. Image stabilizing cameras exist, gyro stabilized RC
> helicopters and drones are commonplace.
>
>
>
> Thank you,
>
> Brian Webster
>
> www.wirelessmapping.com
>
>
>
> *From:* AF [mailto: af-boun...@af.afmug.com] *On
> Behalf Of *Chuck McCown via AF
> *Sent:* Friday, September 17, 2021 8:16 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> *Cc:* Chuck McCown
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] ***SPAM*** interesting...we installed several
> laser links in the 1990s...
>
>
>
> I did too.  Mexico City.  E1 data rate.  High rise buildings.
> Building movement was a problem.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>
>
> On Sep 17, 2021, at 5:12 PM, Jaime Solorza <
> losguyswirel...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> 
>
>
> 
> https://news.google.com/articles/CBMicGh0dHBzOi8vYXJzdGVjaG5pY2EuY29tL2dhZGdldHMvMjAyMS8wOS9hbHBoYWJldHMtbGFzZXItaW50ZXJuZXQtc3lzdGVtLWhhcy1zZW50LTcwMHRiLW9mLWRhdGEtd2l0aC05OS05LXVwdGltZS_SAXZodHRwczovL2Fyc3RlY2huaWNhLmNvbS9nYWRnZXRzLzIwMjEvMDkvYWxwaGFiZXRzLWxhc2VyLWludGVybmV0LXN5c3RlbS1oYXMtc2VudC03MDB0Yi1vZi1kYXRhLXdpdGgtOTktOS11cHRpbWUvP2FtcD0x?hl=en-US&gl=US&ceid=US%3Aen
>
>
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 AF mailing list
 AF@af.afmug.com
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Re: [AFMUG] ***SPAM*** interesting...we installed several laser links in the 1990s...

[Nate Burke]

So 700TB over 20 Days, that's about 4gb/s average.  I wonder what these 
are feeding on each end, that that amount of traffic suddenly turned on, 
or if it's literally extending an ISP on each end.  Or is this just test 
traffic.


On 9/20/2021 3:03 PM, Mathew Howard wrote:
Yeah... other than potentially being capable of more bandwidth, and 
maybe getting around some regulations, I can't imagine what advantage 
there would be.


On Mon, Sep 20, 2021 at 2:41 PM Adam Moffett > wrote:


There's a whiz-bang-wow factor for free space optics. I'm not sure
if there's any real technical advantage over millimeter wave
though.  None that I'm currently aware of.

-Adam


On 9/20/2021 12:12 PM, Mathew Howard wrote:

Seems to me like you're almost always going to be a lot better
off just using 80ghz (or even 60ghz, depending on
requirements)... I guess if you need more than 10Gbps it might
make sense, but otherwise, it seems like playing with this stuff
is just going to cause a lot of unnecessary headaches.

On Mon, Sep 20, 2021 at 10:13 AM Steve Jones
mailto:thatoneguyst...@gmail.com>> wrote:

I hope its come along way. we did some and it was awful. auto
alignment had to be turned of because it would sometimes just
start adjusting and go out of alignment like it was having a
seizure. lens fogging was awful. We had one where it would
take a courthouse down roughly the same time every day,
finally tracked it to sun reflection off an aluminum parapet.
i had to haul a truck tarp up onto the roof to cover the
parapet to prove it. The only place for lasers is in flexible
glass

On Mon, Sep 20, 2021 at 9:16 AM Jaime Solorza
mailto:losguyswirel...@gmail.com>> wrote:

Yep...they tried one from a bank building in El Paso to
Juarez back in the late 1990s...22 story building moved
too much...we ended up installing a 23Ghz link but from
another location.

On Mon, Sep 20, 2021, 6:24 AM Brian Webster
mailto:i...@wirelessmapping.com>> wrote:

I would think now it would be easier to mount the
laser in a gyro stabilized gimbal to account for the
movement. In the 90’s that technology was not
affordable. Image stabilizing cameras exist, gyro
stabilized RC helicopters and drones are commonplace.

Thank you,

Brian Webster

www.wirelessmapping.com 

*From:*AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com
] *On Behalf Of
*Chuck McCown via AF
*Sent:* Friday, September 17, 2021 8:16 PM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
*Cc:* Chuck McCown
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] ***SPAM*** interesting...we
installed several laser links in the 1990s...

I did too. Mexico City.  E1 data rate.  High rise
buildings.  Building movement was a problem.

Sent from my iPhone



On Sep 17, 2021, at 5:12 PM, Jaime Solorza
mailto:losguyswirel...@gmail.com>> wrote:




https://news.google.com/articles/CBMicGh0dHBzOi8vYXJzdGVjaG5pY2EuY29tL2dhZGdldHMvMjAyMS8wOS9hbHBoYWJldHMtbGFzZXItaW50ZXJuZXQtc3lzdGVtLWhhcy1zZW50LTcwMHRiLW9mLWRhdGEtd2l0aC05OS05LXVwdGltZS_SAXZodHRwczovL2Fyc3RlY2huaWNhLmNvbS9nYWRnZXRzLzIwMjEvMDkvYWxwaGFiZXRzLWxhc2VyLWludGVybmV0LXN5c3RlbS1oYXMtc2VudC03MDB0Yi1vZi1kYXRhLXdpdGgtOTktOS11cHRpbWUvP2FtcD0x?hl=en-US&gl=US&ceid=US%3Aen


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Re: [AFMUG] ***SPAM*** interesting...we installed several laser links in the 1990s...

[Mathew Howard]

Yeah... other than potentially being capable of more bandwidth, and maybe
getting around some regulations, I can't imagine what advantage there would
be.

On Mon, Sep 20, 2021 at 2:41 PM Adam Moffett  wrote:

> There's a whiz-bang-wow factor for free space optics.  I'm not sure if
> there's any real technical advantage over millimeter wave though.  None
> that I'm currently aware of.
>
> -Adam
>
>
> On 9/20/2021 12:12 PM, Mathew Howard wrote:
>
> Seems to me like you're almost always going to be a lot better off just
> using 80ghz (or even 60ghz, depending on requirements)... I guess if you
> need more than 10Gbps it might make sense, but otherwise, it seems like
> playing with this stuff is just going to cause a lot of unnecessary
> headaches.
>
> On Mon, Sep 20, 2021 at 10:13 AM Steve Jones 
> wrote:
>
>> I hope its come along way. we did some and it was awful. auto alignment
>> had to be turned of because it would sometimes just start adjusting and go
>> out of alignment like it was having a seizure. lens fogging was awful. We
>> had one where it would take a courthouse down roughly the same time every
>> day, finally tracked it to sun reflection off an aluminum parapet. i had to
>> haul a truck tarp up onto the roof to cover the parapet to prove it. The
>> only place for lasers is in flexible glass
>>
>> On Mon, Sep 20, 2021 at 9:16 AM Jaime Solorza 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Yep...they tried one from a bank building in El Paso to Juarez back in
>>> the late 1990s...22 story building moved too much...we ended up installing
>>> a 23Ghz link but from another location.
>>>
>>> On Mon, Sep 20, 2021, 6:24 AM Brian Webster 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 I would think now it would be easier to mount the laser in a gyro
 stabilized gimbal to account for the movement. In the 90’s that technology
 was not affordable. Image stabilizing cameras exist, gyro stabilized RC
 helicopters and drones are commonplace.



 Thank you,

 Brian Webster

 www.wirelessmapping.com



 *From:* AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Chuck
 McCown via AF
 *Sent:* Friday, September 17, 2021 8:16 PM
 *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
 *Cc:* Chuck McCown
 *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] ***SPAM*** interesting...we installed several
 laser links in the 1990s...



 I did too.  Mexico City.  E1 data rate.  High rise buildings.  Building
 movement was a problem.

 Sent from my iPhone



 On Sep 17, 2021, at 5:12 PM, Jaime Solorza 
 wrote:

 


 https://news.google.com/articles/CBMicGh0dHBzOi8vYXJzdGVjaG5pY2EuY29tL2dhZGdldHMvMjAyMS8wOS9hbHBoYWJldHMtbGFzZXItaW50ZXJuZXQtc3lzdGVtLWhhcy1zZW50LTcwMHRiLW9mLWRhdGEtd2l0aC05OS05LXVwdGltZS_SAXZodHRwczovL2Fyc3RlY2huaWNhLmNvbS9nYWRnZXRzLzIwMjEvMDkvYWxwaGFiZXRzLWxhc2VyLWludGVybmV0LXN5c3RlbS1oYXMtc2VudC03MDB0Yi1vZi1kYXRhLXdpdGgtOTktOS11cHRpbWUvP2FtcD0x?hl=en-US&gl=US&ceid=US%3Aen


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Re: [AFMUG] example land lease for tower construction

[Adam Moffett]

Oh.spell out who's responsible for maintaining the access road, 
including snow plowing.  If the landlord is responsible then include a 
remedy (a free month etc) if they fail to plow it within a reasonable 
time frame.  Maybe you have a snowcat and nobody is required to plow, if 
so then spell that out too.


In one of those "driving on the hay" situations, the access road was a 
tractor path and the ruts were too deep for anything that wasn't a 
tractor.  It was easier to just drive a truck across the field.  The 
landlord invited us to fill in the ruts ourselves.  I thought that 
wasn't reasonable, but nobody spelled out that the road had to be 
maintained to any specific standard so shame on us.


-Adam


On 9/20/2021 3:36 PM, Adam Moffett wrote:


I don't have an example land lease agreement.  But these are some 
things that have come up.


24/7 access without notice
    (some landowners want a phone call when you go up, sounds 
reasonable at first, but it becomes a nuisance)


Define the path/ROW for vehicle access and put it in writing in the 
lease, and physically mark it if it's not obvious.  Use orange 
fiberglass reflective stakes or similar.
    (two different landowners have complained about techs driving 
across their hay.  In both cases there was an agreed upon path that 
could be driven on, but it's not marked and not obvious to a new 
technician.)


The lease is for the land, not what's on it.  One landowner insisted 
on more rent when more things went on the tower.  This didn't make 
sense to anyone except him, but apparently it needed to be spelled out.



I can think of a few other disputes, but they had nothing to do with 
what was in the lease but rather the fact that the landlord was a 
crazy person.



On 9/20/2021 11:00 AM, Steve Jones wrote:
A buddy is looking for an example agreement that covers all the 
things you wish you thought of the first lease.


this is for leasing ground to construct a tower on

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Re: [AFMUG] ***SPAM*** interesting...we installed several laser links in the 1990s...

[Adam Moffett]

There's a whiz-bang-wow factor for free space optics.  I'm not sure if 
there's any real technical advantage over millimeter wave though.  None 
that I'm currently aware of.


-Adam


On 9/20/2021 12:12 PM, Mathew Howard wrote:
Seems to me like you're almost always going to be a lot better off 
just using 80ghz (or even 60ghz, depending on requirements)... I guess 
if you need more than 10Gbps it might make sense, but otherwise, it 
seems like playing with this stuff is just going to cause a lot of 
unnecessary headaches.


On Mon, Sep 20, 2021 at 10:13 AM Steve Jones 
mailto:thatoneguyst...@gmail.com>> wrote:


I hope its come along way. we did some and it was awful. auto
alignment had to be turned of because it would sometimes just
start adjusting and go out of alignment like it was having a
seizure. lens fogging was awful. We had one where it would take a
courthouse down roughly the same time every day, finally tracked
it to sun reflection off an aluminum parapet. i had to haul a
truck tarp up onto the roof to cover the parapet to prove it. The
only place for lasers is in flexible glass

On Mon, Sep 20, 2021 at 9:16 AM Jaime Solorza
mailto:losguyswirel...@gmail.com>> wrote:

Yep...they tried one from a bank building in El Paso to Juarez
back in the late 1990s...22 story building moved too much...we
ended up installing a 23Ghz link but from another location.

On Mon, Sep 20, 2021, 6:24 AM Brian Webster
mailto:i...@wirelessmapping.com>>
wrote:

I would think now it would be easier to mount the laser in
a gyro stabilized gimbal to account for the movement. In
the 90’s that technology was not affordable. Image
stabilizing cameras exist, gyro stabilized RC helicopters
and drones are commonplace.

Thank you,

Brian Webster

www.wirelessmapping.com 

*From:*AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com
] *On Behalf Of *Chuck
McCown via AF
*Sent:* Friday, September 17, 2021 8:16 PM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
*Cc:* Chuck McCown
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] ***SPAM*** interesting...we
installed several laser links in the 1990s...

I did too.  Mexico City.  E1 data rate.  High rise
buildings.  Building movement was a problem.

Sent from my iPhone



On Sep 17, 2021, at 5:12 PM, Jaime Solorza
mailto:losguyswirel...@gmail.com>> wrote:




https://news.google.com/articles/CBMicGh0dHBzOi8vYXJzdGVjaG5pY2EuY29tL2dhZGdldHMvMjAyMS8wOS9hbHBoYWJldHMtbGFzZXItaW50ZXJuZXQtc3lzdGVtLWhhcy1zZW50LTcwMHRiLW9mLWRhdGEtd2l0aC05OS05LXVwdGltZS_SAXZodHRwczovL2Fyc3RlY2huaWNhLmNvbS9nYWRnZXRzLzIwMjEvMDkvYWxwaGFiZXRzLWxhc2VyLWludGVybmV0LXN5c3RlbS1oYXMtc2VudC03MDB0Yi1vZi1kYXRhLXdpdGgtOTktOS11cHRpbWUvP2FtcD0x?hl=en-US&gl=US&ceid=US%3Aen




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Re: [AFMUG] example land lease for tower construction

[Adam Moffett]

I don't have an example land lease agreement.  But these are some things 
that have come up.


24/7 access without notice
    (some landowners want a phone call when you go up, sounds 
reasonable at first, but it becomes a nuisance)


Define the path/ROW for vehicle access and put it in writing in the 
lease, and physically mark it if it's not obvious.  Use orange 
fiberglass reflective stakes or similar.
    (two different landowners have complained about techs driving 
across their hay.  In both cases there was an agreed upon path that 
could be driven on, but it's not marked and not obvious to a new 
technician.)


The lease is for the land, not what's on it.  One landowner insisted on 
more rent when more things went on the tower.  This didn't make sense to 
anyone except him, but apparently it needed to be spelled out.



I can think of a few other disputes, but they had nothing to do with 
what was in the lease but rather the fact that the landlord was a crazy 
person.



On 9/20/2021 11:00 AM, Steve Jones wrote:
A buddy is looking for an example agreement that covers all the things 
you wish you thought of the first lease.


this is for leasing ground to construct a tower on

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Re: [AFMUG] EPCOM

[Jaime Solorza]

I forwarded your question to Bryan and Efrain...
Hope they can help...

On Mon, Sep 20, 2021, 1:00 PM Mike Hammett  wrote:

> I forget their terminology, but EPCOM has some inventory I'm looking for
> in foreign warehouses. Would they ship back to the US or am I SOL?
>
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Midwest Internet Exchange 
> 
> 
> 
> The Brothers WISP 
> 
>
>
> 
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Re: [AFMUG] EPCOM

[TJ Trout]

Yep, everything is available for the right price, but it will be 30%+

On Mon, Sep 20, 2021 at 12:00 PM Mike Hammett  wrote:

> I forget their terminology, but EPCOM has some inventory I'm looking for
> in foreign warehouses. Would they ship back to the US or am I SOL?
>
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Midwest Internet Exchange 
> 
> 
> 
> The Brothers WISP 
> 
>
>
> 
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[AFMUG] EPCOM

[Mike Hammett]

I forget their terminology, but EPCOM has some inventory I'm looking for in 
foreign warehouses. Would they ship back to the US or am I SOL? 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




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[AFMUG] Pasadena Networks\WLAN Parts

[Mike Hammett]

Have any of you bought from Pasadena Networks\WLANParts lately? I went to buy 
something and the site seemed kinda sketchy. I checked LinkedIn and Frank 
Keeney seems to have not been involved since 2015. 






Sorry, it seems that there are no available payment methods for your state. 
Please contact us if you require assistance or wish to make alternate 
arrangements. 




Really, I can't buy from California in Illinois? 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




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[AFMUG] ***SPAM*** Re: ***SPAM*** interesting...we installed several laser links in the 1990s...

[Robert]

There has been a lot of progress in adaptive optics in the last 20 
years.   Seems like that sounds like what people said about 80Ghz 20 
years ago...


On 9/20/21 9:12 AM, Mathew Howard wrote:
Seems to me like you're almost always going to be a lot better off 
just using 80ghz (or even 60ghz, depending on requirements)... I guess 
if you need more than 10Gbps it might make sense, but otherwise, it 
seems like playing with this stuff is just going to cause a lot of 
unnecessary headaches.


On Mon, Sep 20, 2021 at 10:13 AM Steve Jones 
mailto:thatoneguyst...@gmail.com>> wrote:


I hope its come along way. we did some and it was awful. auto
alignment had to be turned of because it would sometimes just
start adjusting and go out of alignment like it was having a
seizure. lens fogging was awful. We had one where it would take a
courthouse down roughly the same time every day, finally tracked
it to sun reflection off an aluminum parapet. i had to haul a
truck tarp up onto the roof to cover the parapet to prove it. The
only place for lasers is in flexible glass

On Mon, Sep 20, 2021 at 9:16 AM Jaime Solorza
mailto:losguyswirel...@gmail.com>> wrote:

Yep...they tried one from a bank building in El Paso to Juarez
back in the late 1990s...22 story building moved too much...we
ended up installing a 23Ghz link but from another location.

On Mon, Sep 20, 2021, 6:24 AM Brian Webster
mailto:i...@wirelessmapping.com>>
wrote:

I would think now it would be easier to mount the laser in
a gyro stabilized gimbal to account for the movement. In
the 90’s that technology was not affordable. Image
stabilizing cameras exist, gyro stabilized RC helicopters
and drones are commonplace.

Thank you,

Brian Webster

www.wirelessmapping.com 

*From:*AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com
] *On Behalf Of *Chuck
McCown via AF
*Sent:* Friday, September 17, 2021 8:16 PM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
*Cc:* Chuck McCown
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] ***SPAM*** interesting...we
installed several laser links in the 1990s...

I did too.  Mexico City.  E1 data rate.  High rise
buildings.  Building movement was a problem.

Sent from my iPhone



On Sep 17, 2021, at 5:12 PM, Jaime Solorza
mailto:losguyswirel...@gmail.com>> wrote:




https://news.google.com/articles/CBMicGh0dHBzOi8vYXJzdGVjaG5pY2EuY29tL2dhZGdldHMvMjAyMS8wOS9hbHBoYWJldHMtbGFzZXItaW50ZXJuZXQtc3lzdGVtLWhhcy1zZW50LTcwMHRiLW9mLWRhdGEtd2l0aC05OS05LXVwdGltZS_SAXZodHRwczovL2Fyc3RlY2huaWNhLmNvbS9nYWRnZXRzLzIwMjEvMDkvYWxwaGFiZXRzLWxhc2VyLWludGVybmV0LXN5c3RlbS1oYXMtc2VudC03MDB0Yi1vZi1kYXRhLXdpdGgtOTktOS11cHRpbWUvP2FtcD0x?hl=en-US&gl=US&ceid=US%3Aen




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Re: [AFMUG] ***SPAM*** interesting...we installed several laser links in the 1990s...

[Mathew Howard]

Seems to me like you're almost always going to be a lot better off just
using 80ghz (or even 60ghz, depending on requirements)... I guess if you
need more than 10Gbps it might make sense, but otherwise, it seems like
playing with this stuff is just going to cause a lot of unnecessary
headaches.

On Mon, Sep 20, 2021 at 10:13 AM Steve Jones 
wrote:

> I hope its come along way. we did some and it was awful. auto alignment
> had to be turned of because it would sometimes just start adjusting and go
> out of alignment like it was having a seizure. lens fogging was awful. We
> had one where it would take a courthouse down roughly the same time every
> day, finally tracked it to sun reflection off an aluminum parapet. i had to
> haul a truck tarp up onto the roof to cover the parapet to prove it. The
> only place for lasers is in flexible glass
>
> On Mon, Sep 20, 2021 at 9:16 AM Jaime Solorza 
> wrote:
>
>> Yep...they tried one from a bank building in El Paso to Juarez back in
>> the late 1990s...22 story building moved too much...we ended up installing
>> a 23Ghz link but from another location.
>>
>> On Mon, Sep 20, 2021, 6:24 AM Brian Webster 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I would think now it would be easier to mount the laser in a gyro
>>> stabilized gimbal to account for the movement. In the 90’s that technology
>>> was not affordable. Image stabilizing cameras exist, gyro stabilized RC
>>> helicopters and drones are commonplace.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Thank you,
>>>
>>> Brian Webster
>>>
>>> www.wirelessmapping.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Chuck McCown
>>> via AF
>>> *Sent:* Friday, September 17, 2021 8:16 PM
>>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>>> *Cc:* Chuck McCown
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] ***SPAM*** interesting...we installed several
>>> laser links in the 1990s...
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I did too.  Mexico City.  E1 data rate.  High rise buildings.  Building
>>> movement was a problem.
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sep 17, 2021, at 5:12 PM, Jaime Solorza 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> 
>>>
>>>
>>> https://news.google.com/articles/CBMicGh0dHBzOi8vYXJzdGVjaG5pY2EuY29tL2dhZGdldHMvMjAyMS8wOS9hbHBoYWJldHMtbGFzZXItaW50ZXJuZXQtc3lzdGVtLWhhcy1zZW50LTcwMHRiLW9mLWRhdGEtd2l0aC05OS05LXVwdGltZS_SAXZodHRwczovL2Fyc3RlY2huaWNhLmNvbS9nYWRnZXRzLzIwMjEvMDkvYWxwaGFiZXRzLWxhc2VyLWludGVybmV0LXN5c3RlbS1oYXMtc2VudC03MDB0Yi1vZi1kYXRhLXdpdGgtOTktOS11cHRpbWUvP2FtcD0x?hl=en-US&gl=US&ceid=US%3Aen
>>>
>>>
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>>> AF@af.afmug.com
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>>>
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>>> AF@af.afmug.com
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>>>
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Re: [AFMUG] ***SPAM*** interesting...we installed several laser links in the 1990s...

[Steve Jones]

I hope its come along way. we did some and it was awful. auto alignment had
to be turned of because it would sometimes just start adjusting and go out
of alignment like it was having a seizure. lens fogging was awful. We had
one where it would take a courthouse down roughly the same time every day,
finally tracked it to sun reflection off an aluminum parapet. i had to haul
a truck tarp up onto the roof to cover the parapet to prove it. The only
place for lasers is in flexible glass

On Mon, Sep 20, 2021 at 9:16 AM Jaime Solorza 
wrote:

> Yep...they tried one from a bank building in El Paso to Juarez back in the
> late 1990s...22 story building moved too much...we ended up installing a
> 23Ghz link but from another location.
>
> On Mon, Sep 20, 2021, 6:24 AM Brian Webster 
> wrote:
>
>> I would think now it would be easier to mount the laser in a gyro
>> stabilized gimbal to account for the movement. In the 90’s that technology
>> was not affordable. Image stabilizing cameras exist, gyro stabilized RC
>> helicopters and drones are commonplace.
>>
>>
>>
>> Thank you,
>>
>> Brian Webster
>>
>> www.wirelessmapping.com
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Chuck McCown
>> via AF
>> *Sent:* Friday, September 17, 2021 8:16 PM
>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>> *Cc:* Chuck McCown
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] ***SPAM*** interesting...we installed several
>> laser links in the 1990s...
>>
>>
>>
>> I did too.  Mexico City.  E1 data rate.  High rise buildings.  Building
>> movement was a problem.
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sep 17, 2021, at 5:12 PM, Jaime Solorza 
>> wrote:
>>
>> 
>>
>>
>> https://news.google.com/articles/CBMicGh0dHBzOi8vYXJzdGVjaG5pY2EuY29tL2dhZGdldHMvMjAyMS8wOS9hbHBoYWJldHMtbGFzZXItaW50ZXJuZXQtc3lzdGVtLWhhcy1zZW50LTcwMHRiLW9mLWRhdGEtd2l0aC05OS05LXVwdGltZS_SAXZodHRwczovL2Fyc3RlY2huaWNhLmNvbS9nYWRnZXRzLzIwMjEvMDkvYWxwaGFiZXRzLWxhc2VyLWludGVybmV0LXN5c3RlbS1oYXMtc2VudC03MDB0Yi1vZi1kYXRhLXdpdGgtOTktOS11cHRpbWUvP2FtcD0x?hl=en-US&gl=US&ceid=US%3Aen
>>
>>
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[AFMUG] example land lease for tower construction

[Steve Jones]

A buddy is looking for an example agreement that covers all the things you
wish you thought of the first lease.

this is for leasing ground to construct a tower on
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Re: [AFMUG] ***SPAM*** interesting...we installed several laser links in the 1990s...

[Jaime Solorza]

Yep...they tried one from a bank building in El Paso to Juarez back in the
late 1990s...22 story building moved too much...we ended up installing a
23Ghz link but from another location.

On Mon, Sep 20, 2021, 6:24 AM Brian Webster 
wrote:

> I would think now it would be easier to mount the laser in a gyro
> stabilized gimbal to account for the movement. In the 90’s that technology
> was not affordable. Image stabilizing cameras exist, gyro stabilized RC
> helicopters and drones are commonplace.
>
>
>
> Thank you,
>
> Brian Webster
>
> www.wirelessmapping.com
>
>
>
> *From:* AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Chuck McCown
> via AF
> *Sent:* Friday, September 17, 2021 8:16 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> *Cc:* Chuck McCown
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] ***SPAM*** interesting...we installed several
> laser links in the 1990s...
>
>
>
> I did too.  Mexico City.  E1 data rate.  High rise buildings.  Building
> movement was a problem.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>
>
> On Sep 17, 2021, at 5:12 PM, Jaime Solorza 
> wrote:
>
> 
>
>
> https://news.google.com/articles/CBMicGh0dHBzOi8vYXJzdGVjaG5pY2EuY29tL2dhZGdldHMvMjAyMS8wOS9hbHBoYWJldHMtbGFzZXItaW50ZXJuZXQtc3lzdGVtLWhhcy1zZW50LTcwMHRiLW9mLWRhdGEtd2l0aC05OS05LXVwdGltZS_SAXZodHRwczovL2Fyc3RlY2huaWNhLmNvbS9nYWRnZXRzLzIwMjEvMDkvYWxwaGFiZXRzLWxhc2VyLWludGVybmV0LXN5c3RlbS1oYXMtc2VudC03MDB0Yi1vZi1kYXRhLXdpdGgtOTktOS11cHRpbWUvP2FtcD0x?hl=en-US&gl=US&ceid=US%3Aen
>
>
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Re: [AFMUG] ***SPAM*** interesting...we installed several laser links in the 1990s...

[Brian Webster]

I would think now it would be easier to mount the laser in a gyro stabilized 
gimbal to account for the movement. In the 90’s that technology was not 
affordable. Image stabilizing cameras exist, gyro stabilized RC helicopters and 
drones are commonplace. 

 

Thank you,

Brian Webster

www.wirelessmapping.com

 

From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] On Behalf Of Chuck McCown via AF
Sent: Friday, September 17, 2021 8:16 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
Cc: Chuck McCown
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] ***SPAM*** interesting...we installed several laser links 
in the 1990s...

 

I did too.  Mexico City.  E1 data rate.  High rise buildings.  Building 
movement was a problem.

Sent from my iPhone





On Sep 17, 2021, at 5:12 PM, Jaime Solorza  wrote:



https://news.google.com/articles/CBMicGh0dHBzOi8vYXJzdGVjaG5pY2EuY29tL2dhZGdldHMvMjAyMS8wOS9hbHBoYWJldHMtbGFzZXItaW50ZXJuZXQtc3lzdGVtLWhhcy1zZW50LTcwMHRiLW9mLWRhdGEtd2l0aC05OS05LXVwdGltZS_SAXZodHRwczovL2Fyc3RlY2huaWNhLmNvbS9nYWRnZXRzLzIwMjEvMDkvYWxwaGFiZXRzLWxhc2VyLWludGVybmV0LXN5c3RlbS1oYXMtc2VudC03MDB0Yi1vZi1kYXRhLXdpdGgtOTktOS11cHRpbWUvP2FtcD0x?hl=en-US
 

 &gl=US&ceid=US%3Aen 

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