Re: [AFMUG] DWDM/CWDM Magic

2024-05-05 Thread Mike Hammett 
$700 seems to be Zayo's floor. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Zach Underwood"  
To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group"  
Sent: Friday, May 3, 2024 10:27:33 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] DWDM/CWDM Magic 


We pay $700 per month for a pair of dark fiber about 6km route from our data 
center to one of our sites both in downtown Atlanta from zayo. We run 40gbps 
10km optics. 


On Fri, May 3, 2024, 11:04 PM Chris Fabien < ch...@lakenetmi.com > wrote: 


We have seen an extremely wide range of prices for dark fiber leases, 
it's one of these things where every situation and provider is 
different. I have been quoted prices over $100/mo per strand-mile and 
as low as $15/mo/strand-mile. A lot of the value seems to be what they 
suspect you're going to try to do with the strands. 50 Miles to a 
datacenter, you're gonna be running NxDWDM 100gig waves, big money. 
Shorter local/metro distance that maybe gets you between your NOC and 
a small/WISP style tower, or maybe grabbing a piece of an "island" run 
that can't even connect to anything else, much more reasonable prices. 

On Fri, May 3, 2024 at 5:50 PM Darin Steffl < darin.ste...@mnwifi.com > wrote: 
> 
> For those of you who have dark fiber access, what kind of costs do you have? 
> 
> I'm thinking more of the cost to access these strands? IRU costs, lease, 
> swaps with other providers, etc? 
> 
> I want some sort of ballpark costs to know what's reasonable when we start 
> looking at this over wavelengths for shorter paths. 
> 
> On Thu, May 2, 2024, 2:50 PM Chris Fabien < ch...@lakenetmi.com > wrote: 
>> 
>> Mark, we do exactly this on a segment where we have leased 2 strands 
>> of dark fiber on a 30mile path. The ends of the run have 8-ch DWDM 
>> Muxes and we have two spots along the run where we have an OADM in a 
>> splice case to drop out a wavelength. At those points, we set a 
>> handhole next to the carrier's handhole, and they looped the 2 strands 
>> onto a 12F jumper into our case, so our OADM is in our case, in our 
>> handhole. Just be sure your optical margins are planned for any 
>> potential add/drop points because each does have some loss. 
>> 
>> On Thu, May 2, 2024 at 12:41 PM Mark - Myakka Technologies via AF 
>> < af@af.afmug.com > wrote: 
>> > 
>> > We may have the opportunity to grab 2 strands of dark fiber. These will 
>> > allow us to build a loop between two points on our network. We have been 
>> > told we can also break into this fiber within our loop. I'm guessing when 
>> > we break into this fiber they will just extend the dark fiber into our 
>> > handhole and we will be responsible to figure out what we do once we cut 
>> > into that fiber. 
>> > 
>> > I'm trying to figure out if there is a way to do this passively so we 
>> > don't have to depend on having our loop run though a customers location. I 
>> > was thinking of CWDM. I can setup a CWDM/DWDM at our site and send 
>> > multiple wave lengths down the fiber. Is there a way for me to break out 
>> > just one wavelength at a hand hole passively? 
>> > 
>> > Let's say I have a North/South run of 2 strands going though a hand hole 
>> > and I what to break out 1270nm for a customer. Is there away for me in the 
>> > hand hole, passively, to peel off just 1270nm. Put something like a 1x2 
>> > splitter in on N1, N2, S1, S2 and send those 4 fibers into the customer 
>> > site. Then install a couple of 1270nm optics in a switch to preserve the 
>> > loop for that one customer. 
>> > 
>> > Do the optics do all the magic or are there some type of filters in the 
>> > DWDM/CWDM modules? 
>> > 
>> > 
>> > 
>> > 
>> > -- 
>> > 
>> > Thanks, 
>> > Mark mailto: m...@mailmt.com 
>> > 
>> > Myakka Communications 
>> > www.Myakka.com 
>> > 
>> > 
>> > -- 
>> > AF mailing list 
>> > AF@af.afmug.com 
>> > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com 
>> 
>> -- 
>> AF mailing list 
>> AF@af.afmug.com 
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com 
> 
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Re: [AFMUG] DWDM/CWDM Magic

2024-05-05 Thread Ken Hohhof 
In the infamous words of former jailbird Rod Blagojevich, "I've got this thing 
and it's bleeping golden. I'm not just giving it up for bleeping nothing." 
Original Message From: "Chuck McCown via AF" Sent: 5/5/2024 6:04:13 PMTo: 
"AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" Cc: chuck@go-mtc.comSubject: Re: [AFMUG] 
DWDM/CWDM Magic







I remember the first IRU I got quoted.? It amounted to a figure equal 
to building it ourselves.? My first time hearing the term IRU too.? 



That was probably 25 years ago.? 

?

From: dmmoff...@gmail.com 
Sent: Sunday, May 5, 2024 2:15 PM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] DWDM/CWDM Magic
?


>From a non-profit middle-mile 
provider we pay $42/month/fiber-mile for a lease.? Same company does a 
20-year IRU for $1000/fiber-mile.? There?s a recurring maintenance fee on 
the IRU, but it?s peanuts.?? I?m betting these prices are near the 
floor.? I don?t believe there?s a ceiling.? 
?

From: AF 
 On Behalf Of Zach 
UnderwoodSent: Friday, May 03, 2024 11:28 PMTo: AnimalFarm 
Microwave Users Group Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 
DWDM/CWDM Magic
?

We pay $700 per month for a pair of dark fiber about 6km 
route from our data center to one of our sites both in downtown Atlanta from 
zayo. We run 40gbps 10km optics. 
?


On Fri, May 3, 2024, 11:04?PM Chris Fabien 
 wrote:

  We have seen an extremely wide range of prices for dark 
  fiber leases,it's one of these things where every situation and provider 
  isdifferent. I have been quoted prices over $100/mo per strand-mile 
  andas low as $15/mo/strand-mile. A lot of the value seems to be what 
  theysuspect you're going to try to do with the strands. 50 Miles to 
  adatacenter, you're gonna be running NxDWDM 100gig waves, big 
  money.Shorter local/metro distance that maybe gets you between your NOC 
  anda small/WISP style tower, or maybe grabbing a piece of an "island" 
  runthat can't even connect to anything else, much more reasonable 
  prices.On Fri, May 3, 2024 at 5:50?PM Darin Steffl  
wrote:>> For those 
  of you who have dark fiber access, what kind of costs do you 
  have?>> I'm thinking more of the cost to access these strands? 
  IRU costs, lease, swaps with other providers, etc?>> I want some 
  sort of ballpark costs to know what's reasonable when we start looking at 
this 
  over wavelengths for shorter paths.>> On Thu, May 2, 2024, 
  2:50?PM Chris Fabien 
   
  wrote: Mark, we do exactly this on a segment where we 
  have leased 2 strands>> of dark fiber on a 30mile path. The ends of 
  the run have 8-ch DWDM>> Muxes and we have two spots along the run 
  where we have an OADM in a>> splice case to drop out a wavelength. 
  At those points, we set a>> handhole next to the carrier's handhole, 
  and they looped the 2 strands>> onto a 12F jumper into our case, so 
  our OADM is in our case, in our>> handhole. Just be sure your 
  optical margins are planned for any>> potential add/drop points 
  because each does have some loss. On Thu, May 2, 2024 
  at 12:41?PM Mark - Myakka 
  Technologies via AF>>  
  wrote:>> >>> > We may have the opportunity to grab 2 
  strands of dark fiber.? These will allow us to build a loop between two 
  points on our network.? We have been told we can also break into this 
  fiber within our loop.? I'm guessing when we break into this fiber they 
  will just extend the dark fiber into our handhole and we will be responsible 
  to figure out what we do once we cut into that fiber.>> 
  >>> > I'm trying to figure out if there is a way to do this 
  passively so we don't have to depend on having our loop run though a 
customers 
  location.? I was thinking of CWDM.? I can setup a CWDM/DWDM at our 
  site and send multiple wave lengths down the fiber.? Is there a way for 
  me to break out just one wavelength at a hand hole passively?>> 
  >>> > Let's say I have a North/South run of 2 strands going 
  though a hand hole and I what to break out 1270nm for a customer.? Is 
  there away for me in the hand hole, passively, to peel off just 1270nm.? 
  Put something like a 1x2 splitter in on N1, N2, S1, S2 and send those 4 
fibers 
  into the customer site.? Then install a couple of 1270nm optics in a 
  switch to preserve the loop for that one customer.>> 
  >>> > Do the optics do all the magic or are there some type of 
  filters in the DWDM/CWDM modules?>> >>> 
  >>> >>> >>> > -->> 
  >>> > Thanks,>> >? 
  Mark? 
  mailto:m...@mailmt.com>> >>> > 
  Myakka Communications>> > www.Myakka.com>> >>> >>> 
  > -->> > AF mailing list>> > AF@af.afmug.com>> > 
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com 
  -->> AF mailing list>> AF@af.afmug.com>> 
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com>> 
  --> AF mailing list> AF@af.afmug.com> 
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com-- 
  AF mailing 
listAF@af.afmug.comhttp://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com


-- AF mailing

Re: [AFMUG] DWDM/CWDM Magic

2024-05-05 Thread Chuck McCown via AF 
I remember the first IRU I got quoted.  It amounted to a figure equal to 
building it ourselves.  My first time hearing the term IRU too.  
That was probably 25 years ago.  

From: dmmoff...@gmail.com 
Sent: Sunday, May 5, 2024 2:15 PM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] DWDM/CWDM Magic

>From a non-profit middle-mile provider we pay $42/month/fiber-mile for a 
>lease.  Same company does a 20-year IRU for $1000/fiber-mile.  There’s a 
>recurring maintenance fee on the IRU, but it’s peanuts.   I’m betting these 
>prices are near the floor.  I don’t believe there’s a ceiling.  

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of Zach Underwood
Sent: Friday, May 03, 2024 11:28 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] DWDM/CWDM Magic

 

We pay $700 per month for a pair of dark fiber about 6km route from our data 
center to one of our sites both in downtown Atlanta from zayo. We run 40gbps 
10km optics. 

 

On Fri, May 3, 2024, 11:04 PM Chris Fabien  wrote:

  We have seen an extremely wide range of prices for dark fiber leases,
  it's one of these things where every situation and provider is
  different. I have been quoted prices over $100/mo per strand-mile and
  as low as $15/mo/strand-mile. A lot of the value seems to be what they
  suspect you're going to try to do with the strands. 50 Miles to a
  datacenter, you're gonna be running NxDWDM 100gig waves, big money.
  Shorter local/metro distance that maybe gets you between your NOC and
  a small/WISP style tower, or maybe grabbing a piece of an "island" run
  that can't even connect to anything else, much more reasonable prices.

  On Fri, May 3, 2024 at 5:50 PM Darin Steffl  wrote:
  >
  > For those of you who have dark fiber access, what kind of costs do you have?
  >
  > I'm thinking more of the cost to access these strands? IRU costs, lease, 
swaps with other providers, etc?
  >
  > I want some sort of ballpark costs to know what's reasonable when we start 
looking at this over wavelengths for shorter paths.
  >
  > On Thu, May 2, 2024, 2:50 PM Chris Fabien  wrote:
  >>
  >> Mark, we do exactly this on a segment where we have leased 2 strands
  >> of dark fiber on a 30mile path. The ends of the run have 8-ch DWDM
  >> Muxes and we have two spots along the run where we have an OADM in a
  >> splice case to drop out a wavelength. At those points, we set a
  >> handhole next to the carrier's handhole, and they looped the 2 strands
  >> onto a 12F jumper into our case, so our OADM is in our case, in our
  >> handhole. Just be sure your optical margins are planned for any
  >> potential add/drop points because each does have some loss.
  >>
  >> On Thu, May 2, 2024 at 12:41 PM Mark - Myakka Technologies via AF
  >>  wrote:
  >> >
  >> > We may have the opportunity to grab 2 strands of dark fiber.  These will 
allow us to build a loop between two points on our network.  We have been told 
we can also break into this fiber within our loop.  I'm guessing when we break 
into this fiber they will just extend the dark fiber into our handhole and we 
will be responsible to figure out what we do once we cut into that fiber.
  >> >
  >> > I'm trying to figure out if there is a way to do this passively so we 
don't have to depend on having our loop run though a customers location.  I was 
thinking of CWDM.  I can setup a CWDM/DWDM at our site and send multiple wave 
lengths down the fiber.  Is there a way for me to break out just one wavelength 
at a hand hole passively?
  >> >
  >> > Let's say I have a North/South run of 2 strands going though a hand hole 
and I what to break out 1270nm for a customer.  Is there away for me in the 
hand hole, passively, to peel off just 1270nm.  Put something like a 1x2 
splitter in on N1, N2, S1, S2 and send those 4 fibers into the customer site.  
Then install a couple of 1270nm optics in a switch to preserve the loop for 
that one customer.
  >> >
  >> > Do the optics do all the magic or are there some type of filters in the 
DWDM/CWDM modules?
  >> >
  >> >
  >> >
  >> >
  >> > --
  >> >
  >> > Thanks,
  >> >  Mark  mailto:m...@mailmt.com
  >> >
  >> > Myakka Communications
  >> > www.Myakka.com
  >> >
  >> >
  >> > --
  >> > AF mailing list
  >> > AF@af.afmug.com
  >> > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
  >>
  >> --
  >> AF mailing list
  >> AF@af.afmug.com
  >> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
  >
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  > AF@af.afmug.com
  > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

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Re: [AFMUG] DWDM/CWDM Magic

2024-05-05 Thread dmmoffett 
>From a non-profit middle-mile provider we pay $42/month/fiber-mile for a 
>lease.  Same company does a 20-year IRU for $1000/fiber-mile.  There’s a 
>recurring maintenance fee on the IRU, but it’s peanuts.   I’m betting these 
>prices are near the floor.  I don’t believe there’s a ceiling.  

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of Zach Underwood
Sent: Friday, May 03, 2024 11:28 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] DWDM/CWDM Magic

 

We pay $700 per month for a pair of dark fiber about 6km route from our data 
center to one of our sites both in downtown Atlanta from zayo. We run 40gbps 
10km optics. 

 

On Fri, May 3, 2024, 11:04 PM Chris Fabien mailto:ch...@lakenetmi.com> > wrote:

We have seen an extremely wide range of prices for dark fiber leases,
it's one of these things where every situation and provider is
different. I have been quoted prices over $100/mo per strand-mile and
as low as $15/mo/strand-mile. A lot of the value seems to be what they
suspect you're going to try to do with the strands. 50 Miles to a
datacenter, you're gonna be running NxDWDM 100gig waves, big money.
Shorter local/metro distance that maybe gets you between your NOC and
a small/WISP style tower, or maybe grabbing a piece of an "island" run
that can't even connect to anything else, much more reasonable prices.

On Fri, May 3, 2024 at 5:50 PM Darin Steffl mailto:darin.ste...@mnwifi.com> > wrote:
>
> For those of you who have dark fiber access, what kind of costs do you have?
>
> I'm thinking more of the cost to access these strands? IRU costs, lease, 
> swaps with other providers, etc?
>
> I want some sort of ballpark costs to know what's reasonable when we start 
> looking at this over wavelengths for shorter paths.
>
> On Thu, May 2, 2024, 2:50 PM Chris Fabien   > wrote:
>>
>> Mark, we do exactly this on a segment where we have leased 2 strands
>> of dark fiber on a 30mile path. The ends of the run have 8-ch DWDM
>> Muxes and we have two spots along the run where we have an OADM in a
>> splice case to drop out a wavelength. At those points, we set a
>> handhole next to the carrier's handhole, and they looped the 2 strands
>> onto a 12F jumper into our case, so our OADM is in our case, in our
>> handhole. Just be sure your optical margins are planned for any
>> potential add/drop points because each does have some loss.
>>
>> On Thu, May 2, 2024 at 12:41 PM Mark - Myakka Technologies via AF
>> mailto:af@af.afmug.com> > wrote:
>> >
>> > We may have the opportunity to grab 2 strands of dark fiber.  These will 
>> > allow us to build a loop between two points on our network.  We have been 
>> > told we can also break into this fiber within our loop.  I'm guessing when 
>> > we break into this fiber they will just extend the dark fiber into our 
>> > handhole and we will be responsible to figure out what we do once we cut 
>> > into that fiber.
>> >
>> > I'm trying to figure out if there is a way to do this passively so we 
>> > don't have to depend on having our loop run though a customers location.  
>> > I was thinking of CWDM.  I can setup a CWDM/DWDM at our site and send 
>> > multiple wave lengths down the fiber.  Is there a way for me to break out 
>> > just one wavelength at a hand hole passively?
>> >
>> > Let's say I have a North/South run of 2 strands going though a hand hole 
>> > and I what to break out 1270nm for a customer.  Is there away for me in 
>> > the hand hole, passively, to peel off just 1270nm.  Put something like a 
>> > 1x2 splitter in on N1, N2, S1, S2 and send those 4 fibers into the 
>> > customer site.  Then install a couple of 1270nm optics in a switch to 
>> > preserve the loop for that one customer.
>> >
>> > Do the optics do all the magic or are there some type of filters in the 
>> > DWDM/CWDM modules?
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > --
>> >
>> > Thanks,
>> >  Mark  mailto:m...@mailmt.com 
>> >  
>> >
>> > Myakka Communications
>> > www.Myakka.com  
>> >
>> >
>> > --
>> > AF mailing list
>> > AF@af.afmug.com  
>> > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com  
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
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