Re: [AFMUG] Sangoma buying Voip Innovations
IMHO being Canadian would be a plus. They’re so nice, and they speak English. FWIW, Preseem is Canadian and their support is excellent. They even work on U.S. holidays. Also, it seems Sangoma sells hosted PBX, it’s possible they are more of a VoIP services company not a hardware company than you give them credit for. I’m not sure U.S. support is such a big selling point anymore, even if not outsourced to somewhere like India. Like I read this morning that AT TV Now had a bunch of billing screwups but they don’t offer phone support, only email or online chat. Maybe if AT was Canadian, they would have phone support. From: AF On Behalf Of Nate Burke Sent: Monday, October 21, 2019 11:06 AM To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Sangoma buying Voip Innovations Is there any concern that a Canadian company is buying a US Voip Provider? Not from like a security 'OMG my calls are going to go to Canada' Question, but more of a regulatory, or support thinking. Eventually I'm sure they'll want to consolidate support within the company, would that be a problem. Since their DDOS issues a few years back, VI has been very stable (at least for us), I guess my big concern is a hardware company trying to re-imagine the service side setup and redundancy. On 10/21/2019 9:27 AM, Jeff Broadwick - Lists wrote: ImageStream used Sangoma cards for years. Jeff Broadwick CTIconnect 312-205-2519 Office 574-220-7826 Cell jbroadw...@cticonnect.com <mailto:jbroadw...@cticonnect.com> On Oct 21, 2019, at 10:23 AM, Lewis Bergman <mailto:lewis.berg...@gmail.com> wrote: I think I bought a Sangoma quad T1 card back in the 90's. They have owned FreePBX for a good while and while they do make it worth your while to use Sangoma equipment, including their phones, with FreePBX they don't try to keep you from using anything else. If I remember right they have some pretty tight integration, a redirecting server, etc that all work with FreePBX. I think they have always made pretty good equipment. I have never had to repair any of it or had it fail so I don't know how good their support is. We seriously looked at FreePBX when we spun up our VoIP business again but they had a few limitations I wasn't thrilled about. On Mon, Oct 21, 2019 at 9:11 AM Bill Prince mailto:part15...@gmail.com> > wrote: Sangoma has been around for a long time. VI only started a decade ago. There's not a lot of information about what kind of revenue VI made, but the whole deal was only worth $42 million. You can slice their annual revenue a few different ways, but Sangoma was grossing around $57 million in the most recent year. Have to admit I haven't paid a lot of attention to Sangoma; I knew the name but thought they were a Japanese company... bp On 10/21/2019 6:55 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote: > I was a little surprised that Sangoma was large enough to buy VI, instead of > the other way around, or a merger of equals. > > Hoping it's not like Google buying Nest where Nest became just a brand and > everything got sucked into the Google ecosystem. As in having to use Sangoma > software and hardware if you want to use VI for > SIP/origination/termination/DIDs/porting/911 and other backend VoIP services. > > > -Original Message- > From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com> > On > Behalf Of Matt Hoppes > Sent: Monday, October 21, 2019 7:44 AM > To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group <mailto:af@af.afmug.com> > > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Sangoma buying Voip Innovations > > I realize people may not of heard of them, so I’m not really trying to make > fun of you. > > Your question just kind of struck me like somebody asking who is Facebook? > > They’ve been around for many years doing voice things specifically with > asterisk. I think I’ve been using their PRI cards since back in 2004. > >> On Oct 21, 2019, at 1:12 AM, Christopher Tyler > <mailto:ch...@totalhighspeed.net> > wrote: >> >> They also bought Digium and FreePBX so I'd say they are doing something >> right. >> >> -- >> Christopher Tyler >> Senior Network Engineer >> MTCRE/MTCNA/MTCTCE/MTCWE >> >> Total Highspeed Internet Solutions >> 1091 W. Kathryn Street >> Nixa, MO 65714 >> (417) 851-1107 x. 9002 >> www.totalhighspeed.com <http://www.totalhighspeed.com> >> >> - Original Message - >> From: "Nate Burke" mailto:n...@blastcomm.com> > >> To: "Animal Farm" mailto:af@af.afmug.com> > >> Sent: Saturday, October 19, 2019 3:37:33 PM >> Subject: [AFMUG] Sangoma buying Voip Innovations >> >> Just got the notice today about Sangoma buying Voip Innovations. >> Anybody have experience with them? Looks like they're a Cana
Re: [AFMUG] Sangoma buying Voip Innovations
Is there any concern that a Canadian company is buying a US Voip Provider? Not from like a security 'OMG my calls are going to go to Canada' Question, but more of a regulatory, or support thinking. Eventually I'm sure they'll want to consolidate support within the company, would that be a problem. Since their DDOS issues a few years back, VI has been very stable (at least for us), I guess my big concern is a hardware company trying to re-imagine the service side setup and redundancy. On 10/21/2019 9:27 AM, Jeff Broadwick - Lists wrote: ImageStream used Sangoma cards for years. Jeff Broadwick CTIconnect 312-205-2519 Office 574-220-7826 Cell jbroadw...@cticonnect.com On Oct 21, 2019, at 10:23 AM, Lewis Bergman wrote: I think I bought a Sangoma quad T1 card back in the 90's. They have owned FreePBX for a good while and while they do make it worth your while to use Sangoma equipment, including their phones, with FreePBX they don't try to keep you from using anything else. If I remember right they have some pretty tight integration, a redirecting server, etc that all work with FreePBX. I think they have always made pretty good equipment. I have never had to repair any of it or had it fail so I don't know how good their support is. We seriously looked at FreePBX when we spun up our VoIP business again but they had a few limitations I wasn't thrilled about. On Mon, Oct 21, 2019 at 9:11 AM Bill Prince <mailto:part15...@gmail.com>> wrote: Sangoma has been around for a long time. VI only started a decade ago. There's not a lot of information about what kind of revenue VI made, but the whole deal was only worth $42 million. You can slice their annual revenue a few different ways, but Sangoma was grossing around $57 million in the most recent year. Have to admit I haven't paid a lot of attention to Sangoma; I knew the name but thought they were a Japanese company... bp On 10/21/2019 6:55 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote: > I was a little surprised that Sangoma was large enough to buy VI, instead of the other way around, or a merger of equals. > > Hoping it's not like Google buying Nest where Nest became just a brand and everything got sucked into the Google ecosystem. As in having to use Sangoma software and hardware if you want to use VI for SIP/origination/termination/DIDs/porting/911 and other backend VoIP services. > > > -Original Message- > From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>> On Behalf Of Matt Hoppes > Sent: Monday, October 21, 2019 7:44 AM > To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com>> > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Sangoma buying Voip Innovations > > I realize people may not of heard of them, so I’m not really trying to make fun of you. > > Your question just kind of struck me like somebody asking who is Facebook? > > They’ve been around for many years doing voice things specifically with asterisk. I think I’ve been using their PRI cards since back in 2004. > >> On Oct 21, 2019, at 1:12 AM, Christopher Tyler mailto:ch...@totalhighspeed.net>> wrote: >> >> They also bought Digium and FreePBX so I'd say they are doing something right. >> >> -- >> Christopher Tyler >> Senior Network Engineer >> MTCRE/MTCNA/MTCTCE/MTCWE >> >> Total Highspeed Internet Solutions >> 1091 W. Kathryn Street >> Nixa, MO 65714 >> (417) 851-1107 x. 9002 >> www.totalhighspeed.com <http://www.totalhighspeed.com> >> >> - Original Message ----- >> From: "Nate Burke" mailto:n...@blastcomm.com>> >> To: "Animal Farm" mailto:af@af.afmug.com>> >> Sent: Saturday, October 19, 2019 3:37:33 PM >> Subject: [AFMUG] Sangoma buying Voip Innovations >> >> Just got the notice today about Sangoma buying Voip Innovations. >> Anybody have experience with them? Looks like they're a Canadian >> hardware company that does a little in the cloud PBX Area? >> >> -- >> AF mailing list >> AF@af.afmug.com <mailto:AF@af.afmug.com> >> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >> >> -- >> AF mailing list >> AF@af.afmug.com <mailto:AF@af.afmug.com> >> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com > -- > AF mailing list > AF@af.afmug.com <mailto:AF@af.afmug.com> > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com > > > -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com <mailto:AF@af.afmug.com> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com -- Lewis Bergman 325-439-0533 Cell -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
Re: [AFMUG] Sangoma buying Voip Innovations
ImageStream used Sangoma cards for years. Jeff Broadwick CTIconnect 312-205-2519 Office 574-220-7826 Cell jbroadw...@cticonnect.com > On Oct 21, 2019, at 10:23 AM, Lewis Bergman wrote: > > > I think I bought a Sangoma quad T1 card back in the 90's. They have owned > FreePBX for a good while and while they do make it worth your while to use > Sangoma equipment, including their phones, with FreePBX they don't try to > keep you from using anything else. If I remember right they have some pretty > tight integration, a redirecting server, etc that all work with FreePBX. I > think they have always made pretty good equipment. I have never had to repair > any of it or had it fail so I don't know how good their support is. > > We seriously looked at FreePBX when we spun up our VoIP business again but > they had a few limitations I wasn't thrilled about. > >> On Mon, Oct 21, 2019 at 9:11 AM Bill Prince wrote: >> Sangoma has been around for a long time. VI only started a decade ago. >> There's not a lot of information about what kind of revenue VI made, but >> the whole deal was only worth $42 million. You can slice their annual >> revenue a few different ways, but Sangoma was grossing around $57 >> million in the most recent year. >> >> Have to admit I haven't paid a lot of attention to Sangoma; I knew the >> name but thought they were a Japanese company... >> >> bp >> >> >> On 10/21/2019 6:55 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote: >> > I was a little surprised that Sangoma was large enough to buy VI, instead >> > of the other way around, or a merger of equals. >> > >> > Hoping it's not like Google buying Nest where Nest became just a brand and >> > everything got sucked into the Google ecosystem. As in having to use >> > Sangoma software and hardware if you want to use VI for >> > SIP/origination/termination/DIDs/porting/911 and other backend VoIP >> > services. >> > >> > >> > -Original Message- >> > From: AF On Behalf Of Matt Hoppes >> > Sent: Monday, October 21, 2019 7:44 AM >> > To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group >> > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Sangoma buying Voip Innovations >> > >> > I realize people may not of heard of them, so I’m not really trying to >> > make fun of you. >> > >> > Your question just kind of struck me like somebody asking who is Facebook? >> > >> > They’ve been around for many years doing voice things specifically with >> > asterisk. I think I’ve been using their PRI cards since back in 2004. >> > >> >> On Oct 21, 2019, at 1:12 AM, Christopher Tyler >> >> wrote: >> >> >> >> They also bought Digium and FreePBX so I'd say they are doing something >> >> right. >> >> >> >> -- >> >> Christopher Tyler >> >> Senior Network Engineer >> >> MTCRE/MTCNA/MTCTCE/MTCWE >> >> >> >> Total Highspeed Internet Solutions >> >> 1091 W. Kathryn Street >> >> Nixa, MO 65714 >> >> (417) 851-1107 x. 9002 >> >> www.totalhighspeed.com >> >> >> >> - Original Message - >> >> From: "Nate Burke" >> >> To: "Animal Farm" >> >> Sent: Saturday, October 19, 2019 3:37:33 PM >> >> Subject: [AFMUG] Sangoma buying Voip Innovations >> >> >> >> Just got the notice today about Sangoma buying Voip Innovations. >> >> Anybody have experience with them? Looks like they're a Canadian >> >> hardware company that does a little in the cloud PBX Area? >> >> >> >> -- >> >> AF mailing list >> >> AF@af.afmug.com >> >> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >> >> >> >> -- >> >> AF mailing list >> >> AF@af.afmug.com >> >> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >> > -- >> > AF mailing list >> > AF@af.afmug.com >> > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >> > >> > >> > >> >> -- >> AF mailing list >> AF@af.afmug.com >> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com > > > -- > Lewis Bergman > 325-439-0533 Cell > -- > AF mailing list > AF@af.afmug.com > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
Re: [AFMUG] Sangoma buying Voip Innovations
I think I bought a Sangoma quad T1 card back in the 90's. They have owned FreePBX for a good while and while they do make it worth your while to use Sangoma equipment, including their phones, with FreePBX they don't try to keep you from using anything else. If I remember right they have some pretty tight integration, a redirecting server, etc that all work with FreePBX. I think they have always made pretty good equipment. I have never had to repair any of it or had it fail so I don't know how good their support is. We seriously looked at FreePBX when we spun up our VoIP business again but they had a few limitations I wasn't thrilled about. On Mon, Oct 21, 2019 at 9:11 AM Bill Prince wrote: > Sangoma has been around for a long time. VI only started a decade ago. > There's not a lot of information about what kind of revenue VI made, but > the whole deal was only worth $42 million. You can slice their annual > revenue a few different ways, but Sangoma was grossing around $57 > million in the most recent year. > > Have to admit I haven't paid a lot of attention to Sangoma; I knew the > name but thought they were a Japanese company... > > bp > > > On 10/21/2019 6:55 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote: > > I was a little surprised that Sangoma was large enough to buy VI, > instead of the other way around, or a merger of equals. > > > > Hoping it's not like Google buying Nest where Nest became just a brand > and everything got sucked into the Google ecosystem. As in having to use > Sangoma software and hardware if you want to use VI for > SIP/origination/termination/DIDs/porting/911 and other backend VoIP > services. > > > > > > -Original Message- > > From: AF On Behalf Of Matt Hoppes > > Sent: Monday, October 21, 2019 7:44 AM > > To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group > > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Sangoma buying Voip Innovations > > > > I realize people may not of heard of them, so I’m not really trying to > make fun of you. > > > > Your question just kind of struck me like somebody asking who is > Facebook? > > > > They’ve been around for many years doing voice things specifically with > asterisk. I think I’ve been using their PRI cards since back in 2004. > > > >> On Oct 21, 2019, at 1:12 AM, Christopher Tyler < > ch...@totalhighspeed.net> wrote: > >> > >> They also bought Digium and FreePBX so I'd say they are doing something > right. > >> > >> -- > >> Christopher Tyler > >> Senior Network Engineer > >> MTCRE/MTCNA/MTCTCE/MTCWE > >> > >> Total Highspeed Internet Solutions > >> 1091 W. Kathryn Street > >> Nixa, MO 65714 > >> (417) 851-1107 x. 9002 > >> www.totalhighspeed.com > >> > >> - Original Message - > >> From: "Nate Burke" > >> To: "Animal Farm" > >> Sent: Saturday, October 19, 2019 3:37:33 PM > >> Subject: [AFMUG] Sangoma buying Voip Innovations > >> > >> Just got the notice today about Sangoma buying Voip Innovations. > >> Anybody have experience with them? Looks like they're a Canadian > >> hardware company that does a little in the cloud PBX Area? > >> > >> -- > >> AF mailing list > >> AF@af.afmug.com > >> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com > >> > >> -- > >> AF mailing list > >> AF@af.afmug.com > >> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com > > -- > > AF mailing list > > AF@af.afmug.com > > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com > > > > > > > > -- > AF mailing list > AF@af.afmug.com > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com > -- Lewis Bergman 325-439-0533 Cell -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
Re: [AFMUG] Sangoma buying Voip Innovations
Sangoma has been around for a long time. VI only started a decade ago. There's not a lot of information about what kind of revenue VI made, but the whole deal was only worth $42 million. You can slice their annual revenue a few different ways, but Sangoma was grossing around $57 million in the most recent year. Have to admit I haven't paid a lot of attention to Sangoma; I knew the name but thought they were a Japanese company... bp On 10/21/2019 6:55 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote: I was a little surprised that Sangoma was large enough to buy VI, instead of the other way around, or a merger of equals. Hoping it's not like Google buying Nest where Nest became just a brand and everything got sucked into the Google ecosystem. As in having to use Sangoma software and hardware if you want to use VI for SIP/origination/termination/DIDs/porting/911 and other backend VoIP services. -Original Message- From: AF On Behalf Of Matt Hoppes Sent: Monday, October 21, 2019 7:44 AM To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Sangoma buying Voip Innovations I realize people may not of heard of them, so I’m not really trying to make fun of you. Your question just kind of struck me like somebody asking who is Facebook? They’ve been around for many years doing voice things specifically with asterisk. I think I’ve been using their PRI cards since back in 2004. On Oct 21, 2019, at 1:12 AM, Christopher Tyler wrote: They also bought Digium and FreePBX so I'd say they are doing something right. -- Christopher Tyler Senior Network Engineer MTCRE/MTCNA/MTCTCE/MTCWE Total Highspeed Internet Solutions 1091 W. Kathryn Street Nixa, MO 65714 (417) 851-1107 x. 9002 www.totalhighspeed.com - Original Message - From: "Nate Burke" To: "Animal Farm" Sent: Saturday, October 19, 2019 3:37:33 PM Subject: [AFMUG] Sangoma buying Voip Innovations Just got the notice today about Sangoma buying Voip Innovations. Anybody have experience with them? Looks like they're a Canadian hardware company that does a little in the cloud PBX Area? -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
Re: [AFMUG] Sangoma buying Voip Innovations
I was a little surprised that Sangoma was large enough to buy VI, instead of the other way around, or a merger of equals. Hoping it's not like Google buying Nest where Nest became just a brand and everything got sucked into the Google ecosystem. As in having to use Sangoma software and hardware if you want to use VI for SIP/origination/termination/DIDs/porting/911 and other backend VoIP services. -Original Message- From: AF On Behalf Of Matt Hoppes Sent: Monday, October 21, 2019 7:44 AM To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Sangoma buying Voip Innovations I realize people may not of heard of them, so I’m not really trying to make fun of you. Your question just kind of struck me like somebody asking who is Facebook? They’ve been around for many years doing voice things specifically with asterisk. I think I’ve been using their PRI cards since back in 2004. > On Oct 21, 2019, at 1:12 AM, Christopher Tyler > wrote: > > They also bought Digium and FreePBX so I'd say they are doing something right. > > -- > Christopher Tyler > Senior Network Engineer > MTCRE/MTCNA/MTCTCE/MTCWE > > Total Highspeed Internet Solutions > 1091 W. Kathryn Street > Nixa, MO 65714 > (417) 851-1107 x. 9002 > www.totalhighspeed.com > > - Original Message - > From: "Nate Burke" > To: "Animal Farm" > Sent: Saturday, October 19, 2019 3:37:33 PM > Subject: [AFMUG] Sangoma buying Voip Innovations > > Just got the notice today about Sangoma buying Voip Innovations. > Anybody have experience with them? Looks like they're a Canadian > hardware company that does a little in the cloud PBX Area? > > -- > AF mailing list > AF@af.afmug.com > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com > > -- > AF mailing list > AF@af.afmug.com > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
Re: [AFMUG] Sangoma buying Voip Innovations
I realize people may not of heard of them, so I’m not really trying to make fun of you. Your question just kind of struck me like somebody asking who is Facebook? They’ve been around for many years doing voice things specifically with asterisk. I think I’ve been using their PRI cards since back in 2004. > On Oct 21, 2019, at 1:12 AM, Christopher Tyler > wrote: > > They also bought Digium and FreePBX so I'd say they are doing something right. > > -- > Christopher Tyler > Senior Network Engineer > MTCRE/MTCNA/MTCTCE/MTCWE > > Total Highspeed Internet Solutions > 1091 W. Kathryn Street > Nixa, MO 65714 > (417) 851-1107 x. 9002 > www.totalhighspeed.com > > - Original Message - > From: "Nate Burke" > To: "Animal Farm" > Sent: Saturday, October 19, 2019 3:37:33 PM > Subject: [AFMUG] Sangoma buying Voip Innovations > > Just got the notice today about Sangoma buying Voip Innovations. Anybody > have experience with them? Looks like they're a Canadian hardware > company that does a little in the cloud PBX Area? > > -- > AF mailing list > AF@af.afmug.com > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com > > -- > AF mailing list > AF@af.afmug.com > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
Re: [AFMUG] Sangoma buying Voip Innovations
They also bought Digium and FreePBX so I'd say they are doing something right. -- Christopher Tyler Senior Network Engineer MTCRE/MTCNA/MTCTCE/MTCWE Total Highspeed Internet Solutions 1091 W. Kathryn Street Nixa, MO 65714 (417) 851-1107 x. 9002 www.totalhighspeed.com - Original Message - From: "Nate Burke" To: "Animal Farm" Sent: Saturday, October 19, 2019 3:37:33 PM Subject: [AFMUG] Sangoma buying Voip Innovations Just got the notice today about Sangoma buying Voip Innovations. Anybody have experience with them? Looks like they're a Canadian hardware company that does a little in the cloud PBX Area? -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
Re: [AFMUG] Sangoma buying Voip Innovations
Sangoma is the company behind freepbx. They have been good to work with. Jim Sent via the Samsung Galaxy S8 Active, an AT 5G Evolution capable smartphone Original message From: Nate Burke Date: 10/19/19 3:39 PM (GMT-06:00) To: Animal Farm Subject: [AFMUG] Sangoma buying Voip Innovations Just got the notice today about Sangoma buying Voip Innovations. Anybody have experience with them? Looks like they're a Canadian hardware company that does a little in the cloud PBX Area? -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
[AFMUG] Sangoma buying Voip Innovations
Just got the notice today about Sangoma buying Voip Innovations. Anybody have experience with them? Looks like they're a Canadian hardware company that does a little in the cloud PBX Area? -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
