Re: [AFMUG] L2 redundancy

[That One Guy /sarcasm]

the best simplest easiest, without touching the config, connect sw1 port1
to sw2 port1 and sw2 port 2 to sw1 port 2 (plug backhaul1 into port one on
each switch, backhaul 2 into port 2 on each switch)

On Tue, Jul 12, 2016 at 11:29 PM, Jason McKemie <
j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com> wrote:

> Is there a way to prioritize one link over the other without things
> getting screwy?
>
> On Tue, Jul 12, 2016 at 11:22 PM, Paul Stewart 
> wrote:
>
>> RSTP works great ….. but as mentioned, I find that if you mess with
>> default timers or other tweaks it’ll often cause more headaches then it’s
>> worth….
>>
>> Most folks deploy layer2 networks, they work and they leave them alone…
>> if you want a highly stable and reliable “switched network” then just like
>> a routed network, you need to get into the details….
>>
>> Common mistakes i have found with switched networks:
>>
>> -No root bridge configured - don’t let the switches decide who the root
>> should be (based on lowest MAC address etc) .. define it so you know what
>> will happen when stuff breaks
>> -No RTSP used - not taking advantage of the “R” portion
>> -too large of deployments, not paying attention to how many TCN’s are
>> happening
>> -HSRP/VRRP not in “sync” with STP parameters
>> -Cisco specific, not using PortFast with BPDU-Guard on computer ports…
>> also root guard and other features for protection/effeciency
>>
>> There’s other stuff I’m probably not thinking of … but point being that a
>> lot of people enable switched networks and it seems to work but they don’t
>> have any plans or concrete ideas of when X  happens what will be the actual
>> outcome
>>
>> Just my two cents
>>
>> Paul
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Jul 12, 2016, at 9:03 PM, That One Guy /sarcasm <
>> thatoneguyst...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> spanning tree is alot like af24, its fucking go**amn awesome, as long as
>> you stick to its scope, and you dont bitch when it miserably fails when you
>> exceed it. Our ISP side it failed on, terribly, they had too large a layer
>> 2 network with too high an expectation and too many people wanting to
>> tighten convergence and not invest in stability, in the mean time we had a
>> courthouse to jail system I designed that didnt want to invest in
>> monitoring that never knew their primary link was down over 50% of the
>> time. I was asked by the primary on the project to tighten the convergence
>> time, I told him to fuck off.
>>
>> On Tue, Jul 12, 2016 at 10:51 PM, George Skorup 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I have that on fiber and copper ethernet, so why wouldn't it work with
>>> microwave instead? Just make sure the radios don't block or otherwise poop
>>> on the spanning-tree updates and I see no reason why it wouldn't work.
>>>
>>>
>>> On 7/12/2016 10:35 PM, Jason McKemie wrote:
>>>
 I have a stub network that I want to have redundancy to via two links
 running the same path. I'd like to do this without having a router at the
 far end (just a switch).  Is anyone doing something like this with RSTP or
 similar? Am I asking for issues?

>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team
>> as part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.
>>
>>
>>
>


-- 
If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team as
part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.

Re: [AFMUG] CDN overload

[That One Guy /sarcasm]

Oh, I know I "can" do alot, until some politician says I cant. and thats
all in flux.In a granular review I cant treat limelignt any different than
any other CDN, ever. so in this particular scenario there is already a
risk. we wont know until after november what the "open internet" even is,
and its up for debate for every four year until its no longer an executive
branch decision (ie equivalent to free cellphone votes)
eventually it will be clear, but right now, in this instance, its so grey,
its illegal

On Tue, Jul 12, 2016 at 11:17 PM, Josh Reynolds 
wrote:

> Slight correction, you can virtually do whatever you want, you just
> can't really block "legal" things, and have to make a good excuse for
> "reasonable network management" if you do.
>
> On Tue, Jul 12, 2016 at 11:15 PM, Josh Reynolds 
> wrote:
> > "limited viability of procera boxes in the open internet era"
> >
> > You are terribly misinformed.
> >
> > You can do whatever you want, you just have to put it in some fine
> > print somewhere. You also can't discriminate and limit a specific
> > service provider. For instance, you can't shape netflix and not hulu,
> > but if you wanted to limit each subscriber to "6Mbps Steaming Video",
> > there's no problem with that.
> >
> > Procera boxes are INCREDIBLY useful, and not just for traffic shaping.
> > They also make excellent CGNAT boxes, can help substantially with
> > DoS/DDoS detection and DoS assistance mechanisms, and give you
> > excellent DPI into subscriber usage. Knowing what's in use on your
> > network per subscriber is also substantially helpful when trying to
> > help a customer with an issue.
> >
> > support: "You're using all of your bandwidth"
> >
> > customer: "No I'm not, the kids are in bed and we're not using the
> > wifi" (they all call it "the wifi" it seems like)
> >
> > support: "I see 15Mbps of Steam updates going on right now"
> >
> > customer: "BRB lemmie shut of my son's computer"
> >
> > *waits for customer speedtest*
> >
> > customer: "Hey that looks great, thank you VERY MUCH!"
> >
> > support: "No problem sir/maam. Glad we could help!"
> >
> > On Tue, Jul 12, 2016 at 10:44 PM, That One Guy /sarcasm
> >  wrote:
> >> sounded to me like this is a single IP (tcp/udp) connection saturation
> >> scenario, without a serious L7 filter in play its gonna do what its
> gonna
> >> do. Powercode for example (historically, not sure about now without
> procera)
> >> only applied the cap on new ip connections, established maintained
> whatever
> >> it was originally. so if you started an unbroken stream at a 12mb burst,
> >> that stream always hung out at 12mb, if your sustained was 3mb, new
> streams
> >> were limited to 3mb aggregate, but the 12mb stream prevailed as long as
> it
> >> was never considered "new". even when powercode was useful with the
> >> throttling controls, before they threw away their primary benefit in the
> >> bandwidth control area to sell their soul to procera with the real time
> >> throttles they took away. with the limited viability of procera boxes
> in the
> >> open internet era, I can see where this would be a cluster f**k post 12k
> >> investment.
> >>
> >> On Tue, Jul 12, 2016 at 9:44 PM, Josh Reynolds 
> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> The policer at the network edge can be much more aggressive than a
> >>> "policer" on an embedded customer network device, and this prevents
> >>> that "15Mbps for a 900MHz customer" bandwidth from transitioning
> >>> across your backhauls / backbone... per customer.
> >>>
> >>> Procera and other similar solutions can help, yes.
> >>>
> >>> On Tue, Jul 12, 2016 at 8:02 PM, Ken Hohhof  wrote:
> >>> > How does it eliminate the problem, unless you use something like a
> >>> > Procera
> >>> > to selectively apply policing to the CDN stream, leaving the customer
> >>> > some
> >>> > bandwidth for other traffic?
> >>> >
> >>> > From: Josh Reynolds
> >>> > Sent: Tuesday, July 12, 2016 7:22 PM
> >>> > To: af@afmug.com
> >>> > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] CDN overload
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> > Shaping/policing at the head end eliminates this problem, and clears
> up
> >>> > your
> >>> > backbone.
> >>> >
> >>> > On Jul 12, 2016 7:06 PM, "Ken Hohhof"  wrote:
> >>> >>
> >>> >> When this happens it basically wipes out that customer’s Internet
> >>> >> except
> >>> >> for the CDN download, no matter where you do the rate limiting.
> >>> >> Customer of
> >>> >> course assumes their ISP just sucks.  With a lot of education, you
> can
> >>> >> convince most of them it is actually an aggressive application
> hogging
> >>> >> their
> >>> >> entire pipe and pushing all the other applications aside.  So I have
> >>> >> customers that whenever their VPN to work stops working, they yell
> >>> >> upstairs
> >>> >> at their kid didn’t I tell you to do your Xbox downloads after I go
> to
> >>> >> bed?
> >>> >>
> >>> >> One view is this isn’t a problem, customer uses bad application,
> feels
> >>> >> pain, learns not to do that.  But everyone tells them it is alw

Re: [AFMUG] L2 redundancy

[Jason McKemie]

Is there a way to prioritize one link over the other without things getting
screwy?

On Tue, Jul 12, 2016 at 11:22 PM, Paul Stewart  wrote:

> RSTP works great ….. but as mentioned, I find that if you mess with
> default timers or other tweaks it’ll often cause more headaches then it’s
> worth….
>
> Most folks deploy layer2 networks, they work and they leave them alone… if
> you want a highly stable and reliable “switched network” then just like a
> routed network, you need to get into the details….
>
> Common mistakes i have found with switched networks:
>
> -No root bridge configured - don’t let the switches decide who the root
> should be (based on lowest MAC address etc) .. define it so you know what
> will happen when stuff breaks
> -No RTSP used - not taking advantage of the “R” portion
> -too large of deployments, not paying attention to how many TCN’s are
> happening
> -HSRP/VRRP not in “sync” with STP parameters
> -Cisco specific, not using PortFast with BPDU-Guard on computer ports…
> also root guard and other features for protection/effeciency
>
> There’s other stuff I’m probably not thinking of … but point being that a
> lot of people enable switched networks and it seems to work but they don’t
> have any plans or concrete ideas of when X  happens what will be the actual
> outcome
>
> Just my two cents
>
> Paul
>
>
>
>
> On Jul 12, 2016, at 9:03 PM, That One Guy /sarcasm <
> thatoneguyst...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> spanning tree is alot like af24, its fucking go**amn awesome, as long as
> you stick to its scope, and you dont bitch when it miserably fails when you
> exceed it. Our ISP side it failed on, terribly, they had too large a layer
> 2 network with too high an expectation and too many people wanting to
> tighten convergence and not invest in stability, in the mean time we had a
> courthouse to jail system I designed that didnt want to invest in
> monitoring that never knew their primary link was down over 50% of the
> time. I was asked by the primary on the project to tighten the convergence
> time, I told him to fuck off.
>
> On Tue, Jul 12, 2016 at 10:51 PM, George Skorup  wrote:
>
>> I have that on fiber and copper ethernet, so why wouldn't it work with
>> microwave instead? Just make sure the radios don't block or otherwise poop
>> on the spanning-tree updates and I see no reason why it wouldn't work.
>>
>>
>> On 7/12/2016 10:35 PM, Jason McKemie wrote:
>>
>>> I have a stub network that I want to have redundancy to via two links
>>> running the same path. I'd like to do this without having a router at the
>>> far end (just a switch).  Is anyone doing something like this with RSTP or
>>> similar? Am I asking for issues?
>>>
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team
> as part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.
>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] L2 redundancy

[Paul Stewart]

RSTP works great ….. but as mentioned, I find that if you mess with default 
timers or other tweaks it’ll often cause more headaches then it’s worth….

Most folks deploy layer2 networks, they work and they leave them alone… if you 
want a highly stable and reliable “switched network” then just like a routed 
network, you need to get into the details….

Common mistakes i have found with switched networks:

-No root bridge configured - don’t let the switches decide who the root should 
be (based on lowest MAC address etc) .. define it so you know what will happen 
when stuff breaks
-No RTSP used - not taking advantage of the “R” portion
-too large of deployments, not paying attention to how many TCN’s are happening
-HSRP/VRRP not in “sync” with STP parameters
-Cisco specific, not using PortFast with BPDU-Guard on computer ports… also 
root guard and other features for protection/effeciency

There’s other stuff I’m probably not thinking of … but point being that a lot 
of people enable switched networks and it seems to work but they don’t have any 
plans or concrete ideas of when X  happens what will be the actual outcome

Just my two cents

Paul

 


> On Jul 12, 2016, at 9:03 PM, That One Guy /sarcasm 
>  wrote:
> 
> spanning tree is alot like af24, its fucking go**amn awesome, as long as you 
> stick to its scope, and you dont bitch when it miserably fails when you 
> exceed it. Our ISP side it failed on, terribly, they had too large a layer 2 
> network with too high an expectation and too many people wanting to tighten 
> convergence and not invest in stability, in the mean time we had a courthouse 
> to jail system I designed that didnt want to invest in monitoring that never 
> knew their primary link was down over 50% of the time. I was asked by the 
> primary on the project to tighten the convergence time, I told him to fuck 
> off.
> 
> On Tue, Jul 12, 2016 at 10:51 PM, George Skorup  > wrote:
> I have that on fiber and copper ethernet, so why wouldn't it work with 
> microwave instead? Just make sure the radios don't block or otherwise poop on 
> the spanning-tree updates and I see no reason why it wouldn't work.
> 
> 
> On 7/12/2016 10:35 PM, Jason McKemie wrote:
> I have a stub network that I want to have redundancy to via two links running 
> the same path. I'd like to do this without having a router at the far end 
> (just a switch).  Is anyone doing something like this with RSTP or similar? 
> Am I asking for issues? 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team as 
> part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.

Re: [AFMUG] CDN overload

[Josh Reynolds]

Slight correction, you can virtually do whatever you want, you just
can't really block "legal" things, and have to make a good excuse for
"reasonable network management" if you do.

On Tue, Jul 12, 2016 at 11:15 PM, Josh Reynolds  wrote:
> "limited viability of procera boxes in the open internet era"
>
> You are terribly misinformed.
>
> You can do whatever you want, you just have to put it in some fine
> print somewhere. You also can't discriminate and limit a specific
> service provider. For instance, you can't shape netflix and not hulu,
> but if you wanted to limit each subscriber to "6Mbps Steaming Video",
> there's no problem with that.
>
> Procera boxes are INCREDIBLY useful, and not just for traffic shaping.
> They also make excellent CGNAT boxes, can help substantially with
> DoS/DDoS detection and DoS assistance mechanisms, and give you
> excellent DPI into subscriber usage. Knowing what's in use on your
> network per subscriber is also substantially helpful when trying to
> help a customer with an issue.
>
> support: "You're using all of your bandwidth"
>
> customer: "No I'm not, the kids are in bed and we're not using the
> wifi" (they all call it "the wifi" it seems like)
>
> support: "I see 15Mbps of Steam updates going on right now"
>
> customer: "BRB lemmie shut of my son's computer"
>
> *waits for customer speedtest*
>
> customer: "Hey that looks great, thank you VERY MUCH!"
>
> support: "No problem sir/maam. Glad we could help!"
>
> On Tue, Jul 12, 2016 at 10:44 PM, That One Guy /sarcasm
>  wrote:
>> sounded to me like this is a single IP (tcp/udp) connection saturation
>> scenario, without a serious L7 filter in play its gonna do what its gonna
>> do. Powercode for example (historically, not sure about now without procera)
>> only applied the cap on new ip connections, established maintained whatever
>> it was originally. so if you started an unbroken stream at a 12mb burst,
>> that stream always hung out at 12mb, if your sustained was 3mb, new streams
>> were limited to 3mb aggregate, but the 12mb stream prevailed as long as it
>> was never considered "new". even when powercode was useful with the
>> throttling controls, before they threw away their primary benefit in the
>> bandwidth control area to sell their soul to procera with the real time
>> throttles they took away. with the limited viability of procera boxes in the
>> open internet era, I can see where this would be a cluster f**k post 12k
>> investment.
>>
>> On Tue, Jul 12, 2016 at 9:44 PM, Josh Reynolds  wrote:
>>>
>>> The policer at the network edge can be much more aggressive than a
>>> "policer" on an embedded customer network device, and this prevents
>>> that "15Mbps for a 900MHz customer" bandwidth from transitioning
>>> across your backhauls / backbone... per customer.
>>>
>>> Procera and other similar solutions can help, yes.
>>>
>>> On Tue, Jul 12, 2016 at 8:02 PM, Ken Hohhof  wrote:
>>> > How does it eliminate the problem, unless you use something like a
>>> > Procera
>>> > to selectively apply policing to the CDN stream, leaving the customer
>>> > some
>>> > bandwidth for other traffic?
>>> >
>>> > From: Josh Reynolds
>>> > Sent: Tuesday, July 12, 2016 7:22 PM
>>> > To: af@afmug.com
>>> > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] CDN overload
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > Shaping/policing at the head end eliminates this problem, and clears up
>>> > your
>>> > backbone.
>>> >
>>> > On Jul 12, 2016 7:06 PM, "Ken Hohhof"  wrote:
>>> >>
>>> >> When this happens it basically wipes out that customer’s Internet
>>> >> except
>>> >> for the CDN download, no matter where you do the rate limiting.
>>> >> Customer of
>>> >> course assumes their ISP just sucks.  With a lot of education, you can
>>> >> convince most of them it is actually an aggressive application hogging
>>> >> their
>>> >> entire pipe and pushing all the other applications aside.  So I have
>>> >> customers that whenever their VPN to work stops working, they yell
>>> >> upstairs
>>> >> at their kid didn’t I tell you to do your Xbox downloads after I go to
>>> >> bed?
>>> >>
>>> >> One view is this isn’t a problem, customer uses bad application, feels
>>> >> pain, learns not to do that.  But everyone tells them it is always the
>>> >> ISP’s
>>> >> fault.  And people with fat pipes like 50 or 100 Mbps cable Internet
>>> >> probably don’t experience this problem, which reinforces the idea that
>>> >> it’s
>>> >> the ISP’s fault.
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> From: Darin Steffl
>>> >> Sent: Tuesday, July 12, 2016 5:42 PM
>>> >> To: af@afmug.com
>>> >> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] CDN overload
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> Why aren't you rate limiting at the core closer to your upstream? Keep
>>> >> the
>>> >> traffic off your last mile and wireless backhaul network if you can
>>> >> help it.
>>> >>
>>> >> Works much better to throttle at the core instead of CPE.
>>> >>
>>> >> Sent from my smartphone. Please excuse any typos.
>>> >>
>>> >> On Jul 12, 2016 5:13 PM, "George Skorup"  wrote:
>>> >>>
>>> >>> I have had it wit

Re: [AFMUG] CDN overload

[Josh Reynolds]

"limited viability of procera boxes in the open internet era"

You are terribly misinformed.

You can do whatever you want, you just have to put it in some fine
print somewhere. You also can't discriminate and limit a specific
service provider. For instance, you can't shape netflix and not hulu,
but if you wanted to limit each subscriber to "6Mbps Steaming Video",
there's no problem with that.

Procera boxes are INCREDIBLY useful, and not just for traffic shaping.
They also make excellent CGNAT boxes, can help substantially with
DoS/DDoS detection and DoS assistance mechanisms, and give you
excellent DPI into subscriber usage. Knowing what's in use on your
network per subscriber is also substantially helpful when trying to
help a customer with an issue.

support: "You're using all of your bandwidth"

customer: "No I'm not, the kids are in bed and we're not using the
wifi" (they all call it "the wifi" it seems like)

support: "I see 15Mbps of Steam updates going on right now"

customer: "BRB lemmie shut of my son's computer"

*waits for customer speedtest*

customer: "Hey that looks great, thank you VERY MUCH!"

support: "No problem sir/maam. Glad we could help!"

On Tue, Jul 12, 2016 at 10:44 PM, That One Guy /sarcasm
 wrote:
> sounded to me like this is a single IP (tcp/udp) connection saturation
> scenario, without a serious L7 filter in play its gonna do what its gonna
> do. Powercode for example (historically, not sure about now without procera)
> only applied the cap on new ip connections, established maintained whatever
> it was originally. so if you started an unbroken stream at a 12mb burst,
> that stream always hung out at 12mb, if your sustained was 3mb, new streams
> were limited to 3mb aggregate, but the 12mb stream prevailed as long as it
> was never considered "new". even when powercode was useful with the
> throttling controls, before they threw away their primary benefit in the
> bandwidth control area to sell their soul to procera with the real time
> throttles they took away. with the limited viability of procera boxes in the
> open internet era, I can see where this would be a cluster f**k post 12k
> investment.
>
> On Tue, Jul 12, 2016 at 9:44 PM, Josh Reynolds  wrote:
>>
>> The policer at the network edge can be much more aggressive than a
>> "policer" on an embedded customer network device, and this prevents
>> that "15Mbps for a 900MHz customer" bandwidth from transitioning
>> across your backhauls / backbone... per customer.
>>
>> Procera and other similar solutions can help, yes.
>>
>> On Tue, Jul 12, 2016 at 8:02 PM, Ken Hohhof  wrote:
>> > How does it eliminate the problem, unless you use something like a
>> > Procera
>> > to selectively apply policing to the CDN stream, leaving the customer
>> > some
>> > bandwidth for other traffic?
>> >
>> > From: Josh Reynolds
>> > Sent: Tuesday, July 12, 2016 7:22 PM
>> > To: af@afmug.com
>> > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] CDN overload
>> >
>> >
>> > Shaping/policing at the head end eliminates this problem, and clears up
>> > your
>> > backbone.
>> >
>> > On Jul 12, 2016 7:06 PM, "Ken Hohhof"  wrote:
>> >>
>> >> When this happens it basically wipes out that customer’s Internet
>> >> except
>> >> for the CDN download, no matter where you do the rate limiting.
>> >> Customer of
>> >> course assumes their ISP just sucks.  With a lot of education, you can
>> >> convince most of them it is actually an aggressive application hogging
>> >> their
>> >> entire pipe and pushing all the other applications aside.  So I have
>> >> customers that whenever their VPN to work stops working, they yell
>> >> upstairs
>> >> at their kid didn’t I tell you to do your Xbox downloads after I go to
>> >> bed?
>> >>
>> >> One view is this isn’t a problem, customer uses bad application, feels
>> >> pain, learns not to do that.  But everyone tells them it is always the
>> >> ISP’s
>> >> fault.  And people with fat pipes like 50 or 100 Mbps cable Internet
>> >> probably don’t experience this problem, which reinforces the idea that
>> >> it’s
>> >> the ISP’s fault.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> From: Darin Steffl
>> >> Sent: Tuesday, July 12, 2016 5:42 PM
>> >> To: af@afmug.com
>> >> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] CDN overload
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Why aren't you rate limiting at the core closer to your upstream? Keep
>> >> the
>> >> traffic off your last mile and wireless backhaul network if you can
>> >> help it.
>> >>
>> >> Works much better to throttle at the core instead of CPE.
>> >>
>> >> Sent from my smartphone. Please excuse any typos.
>> >>
>> >> On Jul 12, 2016 5:13 PM, "George Skorup"  wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>> I have had it with these CDNs sending more traffic than the last mile
>> >>> can
>> >>> handle. Got a customer at 1.5Mbps on 900 FSK and they're sending to
>> >>> her at
>> >>> 15Mbps. Of course the AP reports RF downlink overloaded.
>
>
>
>
> --
> If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team as
> part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.

Re: [AFMUG] L2 redundancy

[That One Guy /sarcasm]

spanning tree is alot like af24, its fucking go**amn awesome, as long as
you stick to its scope, and you dont bitch when it miserably fails when you
exceed it. Our ISP side it failed on, terribly, they had too large a layer
2 network with too high an expectation and too many people wanting to
tighten convergence and not invest in stability, in the mean time we had a
courthouse to jail system I designed that didnt want to invest in
monitoring that never knew their primary link was down over 50% of the
time. I was asked by the primary on the project to tighten the convergence
time, I told him to fuck off.

On Tue, Jul 12, 2016 at 10:51 PM, George Skorup  wrote:

> I have that on fiber and copper ethernet, so why wouldn't it work with
> microwave instead? Just make sure the radios don't block or otherwise poop
> on the spanning-tree updates and I see no reason why it wouldn't work.
>
>
> On 7/12/2016 10:35 PM, Jason McKemie wrote:
>
>> I have a stub network that I want to have redundancy to via two links
>> running the same path. I'd like to do this without having a router at the
>> far end (just a switch).  Is anyone doing something like this with RSTP or
>> similar? Am I asking for issues?
>>
>
>


-- 
If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team as
part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.

Re: [AFMUG] L2 redundancy

[That One Guy /sarcasm]

lol, yes, always.

but if you have RSTP and dont get greedy you can easily do a failover
scenario, but its begging for problems. if you get greedy on your timing a
flap will take you down, if you dont get greedy a flap will cause
intermittent outage. The primary dependency is the quality of your primary
link, and the capability of your tech staff to troubleshoot.

When I was a young man (as it turns out this job really freaking ages your
soul) a few years ago, the bosses got greedy and the admin didnt know any
better, they wanted almost instant RSTP convergence, while they only
invested in tranzeo on an all layer 2 network. needless to say, ultimately
we experienced the equivalent of constant broadcast storms.

everything always depends on your expectation

On Tue, Jul 12, 2016 at 10:35 PM, Jason McKemie <
j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com> wrote:

> I have a stub network that I want to have redundancy to via two links
> running the same path. I'd like to do this without having a router at the
> far end (just a switch).  Is anyone doing something like this with RSTP or
> similar? Am I asking for issues?




-- 
If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team as
part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.

Re: [AFMUG] L2 redundancy

[George Skorup]

I have that on fiber and copper ethernet, so why wouldn't it work with 
microwave instead? Just make sure the radios don't block or otherwise 
poop on the spanning-tree updates and I see no reason why it wouldn't work.


On 7/12/2016 10:35 PM, Jason McKemie wrote:
I have a stub network that I want to have redundancy to via two links 
running the same path. I'd like to do this without having a router at 
the far end (just a switch).  Is anyone doing something like this with 
RSTP or similar? Am I asking for issues? 

Re: [AFMUG] L2 redundancy

[Bruce Robertson]

RSTP works great, in my experience.  Make absolute sure your STP 
includes the R, though.


On 07/12/2016 08:35 PM, Jason McKemie wrote:
I have a stub network that I want to have redundancy to via two links 
running the same path. I'd like to do this without having a router at 
the far end (just a switch).  Is anyone doing something like this with 
RSTP or similar? Am I asking for issues? !DSPAM:2,5785b6eb13346047815729! 

Re: [AFMUG] CDN overload

[That One Guy /sarcasm]

sounded to me like this is a single IP (tcp/udp) connection saturation
scenario, without a serious L7 filter in play its gonna do what its gonna
do. Powercode for example (historically, not sure about now without
procera) only applied the cap on new ip connections, established maintained
whatever it was originally. so if you started an unbroken stream at a 12mb
burst, that stream always hung out at 12mb, if your sustained was 3mb, new
streams were limited to 3mb aggregate, but the 12mb stream prevailed as
long as it was never considered "new". even when powercode was useful with
the throttling controls, before they threw away their primary benefit in
the bandwidth control area to sell their soul to procera with the real time
throttles they took away. with the limited viability of procera boxes in
the open internet era, I can see where this would be a cluster f**k post
12k investment.

On Tue, Jul 12, 2016 at 9:44 PM, Josh Reynolds  wrote:

> The policer at the network edge can be much more aggressive than a
> "policer" on an embedded customer network device, and this prevents
> that "15Mbps for a 900MHz customer" bandwidth from transitioning
> across your backhauls / backbone... per customer.
>
> Procera and other similar solutions can help, yes.
>
> On Tue, Jul 12, 2016 at 8:02 PM, Ken Hohhof  wrote:
> > How does it eliminate the problem, unless you use something like a
> Procera
> > to selectively apply policing to the CDN stream, leaving the customer
> some
> > bandwidth for other traffic?
> >
> > From: Josh Reynolds
> > Sent: Tuesday, July 12, 2016 7:22 PM
> > To: af@afmug.com
> > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] CDN overload
> >
> >
> > Shaping/policing at the head end eliminates this problem, and clears up
> your
> > backbone.
> >
> > On Jul 12, 2016 7:06 PM, "Ken Hohhof"  wrote:
> >>
> >> When this happens it basically wipes out that customer’s Internet except
> >> for the CDN download, no matter where you do the rate limiting.
> Customer of
> >> course assumes their ISP just sucks.  With a lot of education, you can
> >> convince most of them it is actually an aggressive application hogging
> their
> >> entire pipe and pushing all the other applications aside.  So I have
> >> customers that whenever their VPN to work stops working, they yell
> upstairs
> >> at their kid didn’t I tell you to do your Xbox downloads after I go to
> bed?
> >>
> >> One view is this isn’t a problem, customer uses bad application, feels
> >> pain, learns not to do that.  But everyone tells them it is always the
> ISP’s
> >> fault.  And people with fat pipes like 50 or 100 Mbps cable Internet
> >> probably don’t experience this problem, which reinforces the idea that
> it’s
> >> the ISP’s fault.
> >>
> >>
> >> From: Darin Steffl
> >> Sent: Tuesday, July 12, 2016 5:42 PM
> >> To: af@afmug.com
> >> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] CDN overload
> >>
> >>
> >> Why aren't you rate limiting at the core closer to your upstream? Keep
> the
> >> traffic off your last mile and wireless backhaul network if you can
> help it.
> >>
> >> Works much better to throttle at the core instead of CPE.
> >>
> >> Sent from my smartphone. Please excuse any typos.
> >>
> >> On Jul 12, 2016 5:13 PM, "George Skorup"  wrote:
> >>>
> >>> I have had it with these CDNs sending more traffic than the last mile
> can
> >>> handle. Got a customer at 1.5Mbps on 900 FSK and they're sending to
> her at
> >>> 15Mbps. Of course the AP reports RF downlink overloaded.
>



-- 
If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team as
part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.

[AFMUG] L2 redundancy

[Jason McKemie]

I have a stub network that I want to have redundancy to via two links
running the same path. I'd like to do this without having a router at the
far end (just a switch).  Is anyone doing something like this with RSTP or
similar? Am I asking for issues?

Re: [AFMUG] CDN overload

[Josh Reynolds]

The policer at the network edge can be much more aggressive than a
"policer" on an embedded customer network device, and this prevents
that "15Mbps for a 900MHz customer" bandwidth from transitioning
across your backhauls / backbone... per customer.

Procera and other similar solutions can help, yes.

On Tue, Jul 12, 2016 at 8:02 PM, Ken Hohhof  wrote:
> How does it eliminate the problem, unless you use something like a Procera
> to selectively apply policing to the CDN stream, leaving the customer some
> bandwidth for other traffic?
>
> From: Josh Reynolds
> Sent: Tuesday, July 12, 2016 7:22 PM
> To: af@afmug.com
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] CDN overload
>
>
> Shaping/policing at the head end eliminates this problem, and clears up your
> backbone.
>
> On Jul 12, 2016 7:06 PM, "Ken Hohhof"  wrote:
>>
>> When this happens it basically wipes out that customer’s Internet except
>> for the CDN download, no matter where you do the rate limiting.  Customer of
>> course assumes their ISP just sucks.  With a lot of education, you can
>> convince most of them it is actually an aggressive application hogging their
>> entire pipe and pushing all the other applications aside.  So I have
>> customers that whenever their VPN to work stops working, they yell upstairs
>> at their kid didn’t I tell you to do your Xbox downloads after I go to bed?
>>
>> One view is this isn’t a problem, customer uses bad application, feels
>> pain, learns not to do that.  But everyone tells them it is always the ISP’s
>> fault.  And people with fat pipes like 50 or 100 Mbps cable Internet
>> probably don’t experience this problem, which reinforces the idea that it’s
>> the ISP’s fault.
>>
>>
>> From: Darin Steffl
>> Sent: Tuesday, July 12, 2016 5:42 PM
>> To: af@afmug.com
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] CDN overload
>>
>>
>> Why aren't you rate limiting at the core closer to your upstream? Keep the
>> traffic off your last mile and wireless backhaul network if you can help it.
>>
>> Works much better to throttle at the core instead of CPE.
>>
>> Sent from my smartphone. Please excuse any typos.
>>
>> On Jul 12, 2016 5:13 PM, "George Skorup"  wrote:
>>>
>>> I have had it with these CDNs sending more traffic than the last mile can
>>> handle. Got a customer at 1.5Mbps on 900 FSK and they're sending to her at
>>> 15Mbps. Of course the AP reports RF downlink overloaded.

Re: [AFMUG] does this mean the passwords compromised?

[That One Guy /sarcasm]

If "I" was "we" here, residential connections would be limited
substantially in what they can and cannot do, our existing AUP/TOS even
covers it, no servers, but its a battle Id lose and ultimately end up with
a less secure network If I pushed the issue, 53 I finally got allowed to
drop only recently because of a substantial issue with an unsecured
customer mikrotik, and thats one of the few ports that really under no
circumstance should be open to a residential customer.

Back to the original content here though, my heart sunk after I saw that
login, we got hit because of poor management om my part, a good deal of my
personal time and company time got spent cleaning up and mitigating it, I
was pissed when the inital password wasnt accepted because of UBNT
character limit, but getting one that seemed secure as well as easily
memorable for the staff who need it, its an acronym that makes good sense
and allowed for a similar secure password to be used among different
security level network component just with 3 letter changed.
Im glad it turned out im just paranoid

I use ssh on the ubnt stuff. Im adding the alt ssh port and management
ports shortly to our drop list at the edge

On Tue, Jul 12, 2016 at 8:24 PM, Mathew Howard  wrote:

> We've always blocked those ports, and we haven't ever had any complaints
> to speak of... occasionally someone wants to use one of those ports, but we
> just tell them that they're blocked on residential service and they
> generally shut up.
> On Jul 12, 2016 8:04 PM, "Josh Reynolds"  wrote:
>
>> 22 should be in there as well, that's a major command and control
>> system used for malware and botnets, even on windows anymore.
>>
>> Most of your users will not need 22 inbound, and if they do it's
>> easier to add an exception for a handful than to deal with no having
>> it when Something Bad(tm) happens.
>>
>> On Tue, Jul 12, 2016 at 7:56 PM, That One Guy /sarcasm
>>  wrote:
>> > That would be great if it were viable, but its a management headache. we
>> > have unrestricted static space, but its 10 for /30 and 20 for /29, but
>> > customers dont want it if they have to pay for it, 25, 123, and 53 are
>> easy
>> > to justify dropping, the rest just arent in our market because customers
>> > dont want to incur a fee for having somebody else come in and
>> reconfigure
>> > porting, and we dont want to take on the headache of helping them,
>> thats why
>> > i put in the DMZ config
>> >
>> > On Tue, Jul 12, 2016 at 7:20 PM, Josh Reynolds 
>> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> If they want a public/static IPv4 without the blocking, they bypass the
>> >> filtering. That's a $20 or $30/month service with Google.
>> >>
>> >> IPv4 is no longer cheap.
>> >>
>> >> This adds revenue while helping to prevent issues with infected
>> customer
>> >> routers. Very common ISP practice.
>> >>
>> >> On Jul 12, 2016 7:17 PM, "That One Guy /sarcasm"
>> >>  wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>> lol, its funny you say that, this happens to be the guy a while back i
>> >>> posted about who was convinced that one of JABs acquisition APs
>> infected
>> >>> him, and all his devices. this guy wanted to make it our problem now
>> by
>> >>> putting our router back in place, which was fine, more visibility for
>> us if
>> >>> hes a threat to our network.
>> >>>
>> >>> Im not sure what proper firewalls you speak of Josh for customer
>> >>> equipment, we provide a cheap consumer router that occasionally ends
>> up on
>> >>> our exposed public IP space, its no different than the customers own
>> router,
>> >>> only we can lock it down so they cant mess things up. Aside from us
>> managing
>> >>> the device, two air routers side by side are both air routers even if
>> we own
>> >>> one and they own one. Are you recomending on our ISP network we block
>> 80,
>> >>> 443, 22, 21 for all customers? because that will piss off alot of DVR
>> >>> owners.
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> On Tue, Jul 12, 2016 at 4:45 PM, Bill Prince 
>> wrote:
>> 
>>  No I didn't realize that. That's a whole other story. I would advise
>> the
>>  customer to not allow direct access from the outside excepting
>> perhaps VPN
>>  access. Otherwise, it's their problem. They probably have their
>>  smarter-than-they-are phone getting hacked.
>> 
>> 
>>  bp
>>  
>> 
>>  On 7/12/2016 2:26 PM, That One Guy /sarcasm wrote:
>> 
>>  You realize this is a residential customer router right? not
>>  infrastructure, not a CPE radio, those are all inaccessible
>>  We dump a config that puts a single IP outside the dhcp pool on the
>> DMZ.
>>  If they want a public IP, they can do whatever they want as long as
>> it
>>  doesnt violate our TOS 53 and 123 would, everything but our
>> management port
>>  goes into the DMZ. And the only people with customer router
>> credentials are
>>  the staff who would need to get into them to turn on or off the
>> wireless, we
>>  defaultly put them out with it off.
>> 
>> 

Re: [AFMUG] does this mean the passwords compromised?

[That One Guy /sarcasm]

yeah,  once i add it to the list, unless youre on a static you dont get it,
so im limited. The publics other staff can add and remove, im the only one
that touches the statics, we have quite a few customers who do use 22 for
access. We do run butch evans script a little modified on all our
infrastructure routers and will probably have it on all the CPE routers
when we dump the air routers for mikrotiks.
22 is changed on publicly exposed air routers too of ours, but customers
with their own, we cant do anything about, but UBNT "assures" us the last
two firmwares are safe LMFAO

On Tue, Jul 12, 2016 at 8:04 PM, Josh Reynolds  wrote:

> 22 should be in there as well, that's a major command and control
> system used for malware and botnets, even on windows anymore.
>
> Most of your users will not need 22 inbound, and if they do it's
> easier to add an exception for a handful than to deal with no having
> it when Something Bad(tm) happens.
>
> On Tue, Jul 12, 2016 at 7:56 PM, That One Guy /sarcasm
>  wrote:
> > That would be great if it were viable, but its a management headache. we
> > have unrestricted static space, but its 10 for /30 and 20 for /29, but
> > customers dont want it if they have to pay for it, 25, 123, and 53 are
> easy
> > to justify dropping, the rest just arent in our market because customers
> > dont want to incur a fee for having somebody else come in and reconfigure
> > porting, and we dont want to take on the headache of helping them, thats
> why
> > i put in the DMZ config
> >
> > On Tue, Jul 12, 2016 at 7:20 PM, Josh Reynolds 
> wrote:
> >>
> >> If they want a public/static IPv4 without the blocking, they bypass the
> >> filtering. That's a $20 or $30/month service with Google.
> >>
> >> IPv4 is no longer cheap.
> >>
> >> This adds revenue while helping to prevent issues with infected customer
> >> routers. Very common ISP practice.
> >>
> >> On Jul 12, 2016 7:17 PM, "That One Guy /sarcasm"
> >>  wrote:
> >>>
> >>> lol, its funny you say that, this happens to be the guy a while back i
> >>> posted about who was convinced that one of JABs acquisition APs
> infected
> >>> him, and all his devices. this guy wanted to make it our problem now by
> >>> putting our router back in place, which was fine, more visibility for
> us if
> >>> hes a threat to our network.
> >>>
> >>> Im not sure what proper firewalls you speak of Josh for customer
> >>> equipment, we provide a cheap consumer router that occasionally ends
> up on
> >>> our exposed public IP space, its no different than the customers own
> router,
> >>> only we can lock it down so they cant mess things up. Aside from us
> managing
> >>> the device, two air routers side by side are both air routers even if
> we own
> >>> one and they own one. Are you recomending on our ISP network we block
> 80,
> >>> 443, 22, 21 for all customers? because that will piss off alot of DVR
> >>> owners.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On Tue, Jul 12, 2016 at 4:45 PM, Bill Prince 
> wrote:
> 
>  No I didn't realize that. That's a whole other story. I would advise
> the
>  customer to not allow direct access from the outside excepting
> perhaps VPN
>  access. Otherwise, it's their problem. They probably have their
>  smarter-than-they-are phone getting hacked.
> 
> 
>  bp
>  
> 
>  On 7/12/2016 2:26 PM, That One Guy /sarcasm wrote:
> 
>  You realize this is a residential customer router right? not
>  infrastructure, not a CPE radio, those are all inaccessible
>  We dump a config that puts a single IP outside the dhcp pool on the
> DMZ.
>  If they want a public IP, they can do whatever they want as long as it
>  doesnt violate our TOS 53 and 123 would, everything but our
> management port
>  goes into the DMZ. And the only people with customer router
> credentials are
>  the staff who would need to get into them to turn on or off the
> wireless, we
>  defaultly put them out with it off.
> 
>  On Tue, Jul 12, 2016 at 4:17 PM, Bill Prince 
>  wrote:
> >
> > You should limit the scope of who can even attempt to login.
> >
> > bp
> > 
> >
> > On 7/12/2016 1:23 PM, That One Guy /sarcasm wrote:
> >
> > Jul 12 12:11:05 httpd[6948]: Bad password attempt for 'admin' from
> > c-98-226-167-23.hsd1.il.comcast.net
> > Jul 12 12:11:28 httpd[6952]: Password auth succeeded for 'admin' from
> > c-98-226-167-23.hsd1.il.comcast.net
> >
> > This is from an airrouter with a strong password.. we just went
> through
> > a password change too
> >
> >
> > --
> > If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your
> > team as part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.
> >
> >
> 
> 
> 
>  --
>  If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your
> team
>  as part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.
> 
> 
> >>>
> >>

Re: [AFMUG] does this mean the passwords compromised?

[Mathew Howard]

We've always blocked those ports, and we haven't ever had any complaints to
speak of... occasionally someone wants to use one of those ports, but we
just tell them that they're blocked on residential service and they
generally shut up.
On Jul 12, 2016 8:04 PM, "Josh Reynolds"  wrote:

> 22 should be in there as well, that's a major command and control
> system used for malware and botnets, even on windows anymore.
>
> Most of your users will not need 22 inbound, and if they do it's
> easier to add an exception for a handful than to deal with no having
> it when Something Bad(tm) happens.
>
> On Tue, Jul 12, 2016 at 7:56 PM, That One Guy /sarcasm
>  wrote:
> > That would be great if it were viable, but its a management headache. we
> > have unrestricted static space, but its 10 for /30 and 20 for /29, but
> > customers dont want it if they have to pay for it, 25, 123, and 53 are
> easy
> > to justify dropping, the rest just arent in our market because customers
> > dont want to incur a fee for having somebody else come in and reconfigure
> > porting, and we dont want to take on the headache of helping them, thats
> why
> > i put in the DMZ config
> >
> > On Tue, Jul 12, 2016 at 7:20 PM, Josh Reynolds 
> wrote:
> >>
> >> If they want a public/static IPv4 without the blocking, they bypass the
> >> filtering. That's a $20 or $30/month service with Google.
> >>
> >> IPv4 is no longer cheap.
> >>
> >> This adds revenue while helping to prevent issues with infected customer
> >> routers. Very common ISP practice.
> >>
> >> On Jul 12, 2016 7:17 PM, "That One Guy /sarcasm"
> >>  wrote:
> >>>
> >>> lol, its funny you say that, this happens to be the guy a while back i
> >>> posted about who was convinced that one of JABs acquisition APs
> infected
> >>> him, and all his devices. this guy wanted to make it our problem now by
> >>> putting our router back in place, which was fine, more visibility for
> us if
> >>> hes a threat to our network.
> >>>
> >>> Im not sure what proper firewalls you speak of Josh for customer
> >>> equipment, we provide a cheap consumer router that occasionally ends
> up on
> >>> our exposed public IP space, its no different than the customers own
> router,
> >>> only we can lock it down so they cant mess things up. Aside from us
> managing
> >>> the device, two air routers side by side are both air routers even if
> we own
> >>> one and they own one. Are you recomending on our ISP network we block
> 80,
> >>> 443, 22, 21 for all customers? because that will piss off alot of DVR
> >>> owners.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On Tue, Jul 12, 2016 at 4:45 PM, Bill Prince 
> wrote:
> 
>  No I didn't realize that. That's a whole other story. I would advise
> the
>  customer to not allow direct access from the outside excepting
> perhaps VPN
>  access. Otherwise, it's their problem. They probably have their
>  smarter-than-they-are phone getting hacked.
> 
> 
>  bp
>  
> 
>  On 7/12/2016 2:26 PM, That One Guy /sarcasm wrote:
> 
>  You realize this is a residential customer router right? not
>  infrastructure, not a CPE radio, those are all inaccessible
>  We dump a config that puts a single IP outside the dhcp pool on the
> DMZ.
>  If they want a public IP, they can do whatever they want as long as it
>  doesnt violate our TOS 53 and 123 would, everything but our
> management port
>  goes into the DMZ. And the only people with customer router
> credentials are
>  the staff who would need to get into them to turn on or off the
> wireless, we
>  defaultly put them out with it off.
> 
>  On Tue, Jul 12, 2016 at 4:17 PM, Bill Prince 
>  wrote:
> >
> > You should limit the scope of who can even attempt to login.
> >
> > bp
> > 
> >
> > On 7/12/2016 1:23 PM, That One Guy /sarcasm wrote:
> >
> > Jul 12 12:11:05 httpd[6948]: Bad password attempt for 'admin' from
> > c-98-226-167-23.hsd1.il.comcast.net
> > Jul 12 12:11:28 httpd[6952]: Password auth succeeded for 'admin' from
> > c-98-226-167-23.hsd1.il.comcast.net
> >
> > This is from an airrouter with a strong password.. we just went
> through
> > a password change too
> >
> >
> > --
> > If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your
> > team as part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.
> >
> >
> 
> 
> 
>  --
>  If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your
> team
>  as part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.
> 
> 
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> --
> >>> If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your
> team
> >>> as part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team
> as
> > part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.
>

Re: [AFMUG] does this mean the passwords compromised?

[Josh Reynolds]

22 should be in there as well, that's a major command and control
system used for malware and botnets, even on windows anymore.

Most of your users will not need 22 inbound, and if they do it's
easier to add an exception for a handful than to deal with no having
it when Something Bad(tm) happens.

On Tue, Jul 12, 2016 at 7:56 PM, That One Guy /sarcasm
 wrote:
> That would be great if it were viable, but its a management headache. we
> have unrestricted static space, but its 10 for /30 and 20 for /29, but
> customers dont want it if they have to pay for it, 25, 123, and 53 are easy
> to justify dropping, the rest just arent in our market because customers
> dont want to incur a fee for having somebody else come in and reconfigure
> porting, and we dont want to take on the headache of helping them, thats why
> i put in the DMZ config
>
> On Tue, Jul 12, 2016 at 7:20 PM, Josh Reynolds  wrote:
>>
>> If they want a public/static IPv4 without the blocking, they bypass the
>> filtering. That's a $20 or $30/month service with Google.
>>
>> IPv4 is no longer cheap.
>>
>> This adds revenue while helping to prevent issues with infected customer
>> routers. Very common ISP practice.
>>
>> On Jul 12, 2016 7:17 PM, "That One Guy /sarcasm"
>>  wrote:
>>>
>>> lol, its funny you say that, this happens to be the guy a while back i
>>> posted about who was convinced that one of JABs acquisition APs infected
>>> him, and all his devices. this guy wanted to make it our problem now by
>>> putting our router back in place, which was fine, more visibility for us if
>>> hes a threat to our network.
>>>
>>> Im not sure what proper firewalls you speak of Josh for customer
>>> equipment, we provide a cheap consumer router that occasionally ends up on
>>> our exposed public IP space, its no different than the customers own router,
>>> only we can lock it down so they cant mess things up. Aside from us managing
>>> the device, two air routers side by side are both air routers even if we own
>>> one and they own one. Are you recomending on our ISP network we block 80,
>>> 443, 22, 21 for all customers? because that will piss off alot of DVR
>>> owners.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, Jul 12, 2016 at 4:45 PM, Bill Prince  wrote:

 No I didn't realize that. That's a whole other story. I would advise the
 customer to not allow direct access from the outside excepting perhaps VPN
 access. Otherwise, it's their problem. They probably have their
 smarter-than-they-are phone getting hacked.


 bp
 

 On 7/12/2016 2:26 PM, That One Guy /sarcasm wrote:

 You realize this is a residential customer router right? not
 infrastructure, not a CPE radio, those are all inaccessible
 We dump a config that puts a single IP outside the dhcp pool on the DMZ.
 If they want a public IP, they can do whatever they want as long as it
 doesnt violate our TOS 53 and 123 would, everything but our management port
 goes into the DMZ. And the only people with customer router credentials are
 the staff who would need to get into them to turn on or off the wireless, 
 we
 defaultly put them out with it off.

 On Tue, Jul 12, 2016 at 4:17 PM, Bill Prince 
 wrote:
>
> You should limit the scope of who can even attempt to login.
>
> bp
> 
>
> On 7/12/2016 1:23 PM, That One Guy /sarcasm wrote:
>
> Jul 12 12:11:05 httpd[6948]: Bad password attempt for 'admin' from
> c-98-226-167-23.hsd1.il.comcast.net
> Jul 12 12:11:28 httpd[6952]: Password auth succeeded for 'admin' from
> c-98-226-167-23.hsd1.il.comcast.net
>
> This is from an airrouter with a strong password.. we just went through
> a password change too
>
>
> --
> If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your
> team as part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.
>
>



 --
 If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team
 as part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.


>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team
>>> as part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.
>
>
>
>
> --
> If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team as
> part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.

Re: [AFMUG] CDN overload

[Ken Hohhof]

How does it eliminate the problem, unless you use something like a Procera to 
selectively apply policing to the CDN stream, leaving the customer some 
bandwidth for other traffic?

From: Josh Reynolds 
Sent: Tuesday, July 12, 2016 7:22 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] CDN overload

Shaping/policing at the head end eliminates this problem, and clears up your 
backbone. 

On Jul 12, 2016 7:06 PM, "Ken Hohhof"  wrote:

  When this happens it basically wipes out that customer’s Internet except for 
the CDN download, no matter where you do the rate limiting.  Customer of course 
assumes their ISP just sucks.  With a lot of education, you can convince most 
of them it is actually an aggressive application hogging their entire pipe and 
pushing all the other applications aside.  So I have customers that whenever 
their VPN to work stops working, they yell upstairs at their kid didn’t I tell 
you to do your Xbox downloads after I go to bed?

  One view is this isn’t a problem, customer uses bad application, feels pain, 
learns not to do that.  But everyone tells them it is always the ISP’s fault.  
And people with fat pipes like 50 or 100 Mbps cable Internet probably don’t 
experience this problem, which reinforces the idea that it’s the ISP’s fault.


  From: Darin Steffl 
  Sent: Tuesday, July 12, 2016 5:42 PM
  To: af@afmug.com 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] CDN overload

  Why aren't you rate limiting at the core closer to your upstream? Keep the 
traffic off your last mile and wireless backhaul network if you can help it. 

  Works much better to throttle at the core instead of CPE. 

  Sent from my smartphone. Please excuse any typos. 

  On Jul 12, 2016 5:13 PM, "George Skorup"  wrote:

I have had it with these CDNs sending more traffic than the last mile can 
handle. Got a customer at 1.5Mbps on 900 FSK and they're sending to her at 
15Mbps. Of course the AP reports RF downlink overloaded.

Re: [AFMUG] CDN overload

[That One Guy /sarcasm]

is doesnt change the individual customer bottleneck

On Tue, Jul 12, 2016 at 7:22 PM, Josh Reynolds  wrote:

> Shaping/policing at the head end eliminates this problem, and clears up
> your backbone.
> On Jul 12, 2016 7:06 PM, "Ken Hohhof"  wrote:
>
>> When this happens it basically wipes out that customer’s Internet except
>> for the CDN download, no matter where you do the rate limiting.  Customer
>> of course assumes their ISP just sucks.  With a lot of education, you can
>> convince most of them it is actually an aggressive application hogging
>> their entire pipe and pushing all the other applications aside.  So I have
>> customers that whenever their VPN to work stops working, they yell upstairs
>> at their kid didn’t I tell you to do your Xbox downloads after I go to bed?
>>
>> One view is this isn’t a problem, customer uses bad application, feels
>> pain, learns not to do that.  But everyone tells them it is always the
>> ISP’s fault.  And people with fat pipes like 50 or 100 Mbps cable Internet
>> probably don’t experience this problem, which reinforces the idea that it’s
>> the ISP’s fault.
>>
>>
>> *From:* Darin Steffl 
>> *Sent:* Tuesday, July 12, 2016 5:42 PM
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] CDN overload
>>
>>
>> Why aren't you rate limiting at the core closer to your upstream? Keep
>> the traffic off your last mile and wireless backhaul network if you can
>> help it.
>>
>> Works much better to throttle at the core instead of CPE.
>>
>> Sent from my smartphone. Please excuse any typos.
>> On Jul 12, 2016 5:13 PM, "George Skorup"  wrote:
>>
>>> I have had it with these CDNs sending more traffic than the last mile
>>> can handle. Got a customer at 1.5Mbps on 900 FSK and they're sending to her
>>> at 15Mbps. Of course the AP reports RF downlink overloaded.
>>>
>>


-- 
If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team as
part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.

Re: [AFMUG] does this mean the passwords compromised?

[That One Guy /sarcasm]

That would be great if it were viable, but its a management headache. we
have unrestricted static space, but its 10 for /30 and 20 for /29, but
customers dont want it if they have to pay for it, 25, 123, and 53 are easy
to justify dropping, the rest just arent in our market because customers
dont want to incur a fee for having somebody else come in and reconfigure
porting, and we dont want to take on the headache of helping them, thats
why i put in the DMZ config

On Tue, Jul 12, 2016 at 7:20 PM, Josh Reynolds  wrote:

> If they want a public/static IPv4 without the blocking, they bypass the
> filtering. That's a $20 or $30/month service with Google.
>
> IPv4 is no longer cheap.
>
> This adds revenue while helping to prevent issues with infected customer
> routers. Very common ISP practice.
> On Jul 12, 2016 7:17 PM, "That One Guy /sarcasm" <
> thatoneguyst...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> lol, its funny you say that, this happens to be the guy a while back i
>> posted about who was convinced that one of JABs acquisition APs infected
>> him, and all his devices. this guy wanted to make it our problem now by
>> putting our router back in place, which was fine, more visibility for us if
>> hes a threat to our network.
>>
>> Im not sure what proper firewalls you speak of Josh for customer
>> equipment, we provide a cheap consumer router that occasionally ends up on
>> our exposed public IP space, its no different than the customers own
>> router, only we can lock it down so they cant mess things up. Aside from us
>> managing the device, two air routers side by side are both air routers even
>> if we own one and they own one. Are you recomending on our ISP network we
>> block 80, 443, 22, 21 for all customers? because that will piss off alot of
>> DVR owners.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Jul 12, 2016 at 4:45 PM, Bill Prince  wrote:
>>
>>> No I didn't realize that. That's a whole other story. I would advise the
>>> customer to not allow direct access from the outside excepting perhaps VPN
>>> access. Otherwise, it's their problem. They probably have their
>>> smarter-than-they-are phone getting hacked.
>>>
>>>
>>> bp
>>> 
>>>
>>>
>>> On 7/12/2016 2:26 PM, That One Guy /sarcasm wrote:
>>>
>>> You realize this is a residential customer router right? not
>>> infrastructure, not a CPE radio, those are all inaccessible
>>> We dump a config that puts a single IP outside the dhcp pool on the DMZ.
>>> If they want a public IP, they can do whatever they want as long as it
>>> doesnt violate our TOS 53 and 123 would, everything but our management port
>>> goes into the DMZ. And the only people with customer router credentials are
>>> the staff who would need to get into them to turn on or off the wireless,
>>> we defaultly put them out with it off.
>>>
>>> On Tue, Jul 12, 2016 at 4:17 PM, Bill Prince 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 You should limit the scope of who can even attempt to login.

 bp
 


 On 7/12/2016 1:23 PM, That One Guy /sarcasm wrote:

 Jul 12 12:11:05 httpd[6948]: Bad password attempt for 'admin' from 
 c-98-226-167-23.hsd1.il.comcast.net
 Jul 12 12:11:28 httpd[6952]: Password auth succeeded for 'admin' from 
 c-98-226-167-23.hsd1.il.comcast.net

 This is from an airrouter with a strong password.. we just went through a 
 password change too


 --
 If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your
 team as part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.



>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team
>>> as part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team
>> as part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.
>>
>


-- 
If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team as
part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.

Re: [AFMUG] old laptops

[That One Guy /sarcasm]

The special needs guy that works here occasionally gets a hammer and a
smile, the FBI isnt getting that data back

On Tue, Jul 12, 2016 at 5:35 PM, Daniel White  wrote:

> That would do the trick.
>
> If the FBI is determined, they can get data off of disks that have been
> set on fire.  A few 1/4" holes are not going to stop them.
>
> Shredding is probably the most secure way.
>
> Daniel White
> Managing Director – Hardware Distribution Sales
> ConVergence Technologies
> Cell: +1 (303) 746-3590
> dwh...@converge-tech.com
>
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Chuck McCown
> > Sent: Tuesday, July 12, 2016 12:59 PM
> > To: af@afmug.com
> > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] old laptops
> >
> > Thermite
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Seth Mattinen
> > Sent: Tuesday, July 12, 2016 12:58 PM
> > To: af@afmug.com
> > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] old laptops
> >
> > On 7/12/16 11:55, Josh Luthman wrote:
> > > That's why you drill a few 1/4" holes.
> >
> >
> > A Hilti gun requires less effort.
> >
> > ~Seth
>
>
> ---
> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
> https://www.avast.com/antivirus
>
>


-- 
If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team as
part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.

Re: [AFMUG] PTP link radio pricing: Retail vs. RFQ

[That One Guy /sarcasm]

If its licensed, category B, unlicensed Category A as a rule of thumb.
basically under 2-4k/radio A over 2-4k B.

Alot of it depends on the consumer (us) need and experience, for example,
prior to our 11ghz links, I wouldnt have known how to buy a SAF radio, let
alone why to buy it over dragonwave. I lucked out on all the different
vendors we looked at, with the exception of cambium, I dealt with very good
reps, at the end of the day the decision was sound on the vendor to go with
even if the details made it close. Click and buy, that not going to happen,
but the Category A products tend to have a pretty good amount of available
info on real world expectations (I still get a kick out of reading guys
complaining that their 5mile af24 drops in the rain) where if they had done
a little research they wouldnt have had a problem, because they would have
used the right product for the application.

UBNT is a prime category A product, there is really nobody to call, you get
different answers from different re-sellers, some are a little more liberal
on whether you need a US version in the US, etc. But you get a dirt cheap
product with a

Price for one offs really depends on your motivating factor, pay a little
more to a good re-seller to build a good purchase history for a long term
payout in the relationship, or nickel and dime the reseller for a one time
sale (i have to do both on anything I buy, sales guys hate my cheap ass)

I think in the long term, whether its A or B, its primarily about your
re-seller relationships, and thats very dependent on the reseller staff.

Our radios are like any other product, like monitoring, guys like me who
prefer to find the unicorn of an affordable feature rich solution in a box,
vs alot of guys who are like of thats easy, just spin this up, that up
write this script, do this mysql function, create this file, change this
permission, every two days reset the flux capacitor, then pit a 4 ohn
resistor on your keyboard, press the 4 key seven times, start a motor on
the same circuit as the server to get the current drop, while its dropped
draw a graphite line from the processor pin 4 to the coproccessor pin
18... for them, everything is category A

On Tue, Jul 12, 2016 at 6:52 PM, Ken Hohhof  wrote:

> Good question, I will tell you, it pisses me off when I buy a radio from a
> category B vendor and find out some other company (maybe a competitor) got
> a much better price.  Not because they bought a truckload, but because they
> whined louder or were bigger dicks or knew someone.  Or it was the end of
> the quarter and somebody wanted to make quota.  Similarly, I don’t like
> getting a good price, assuming that will be my price for my next project,
> but then the vendor says that quote was a special price we can’t do that
> now.
>
>
> *From:* Eric Kuhnke 
> *Sent:* Tuesday, July 12, 2016 6:24 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* [AFMUG] PTP link radio pricing: Retail vs. RFQ
>
> It seems the high capacity PTP radio market is segmenting into two
> categories:
>
> (a) Radios that are low cost and have a fixed price, there's no need to
> talk to a manufacturer/vendor sales rep to get a price. The radios don't
> have things like special license keys for certain features or extra money
> to enable XPIC. Example: AF24, AF24HD, the IgniteNet 60 GHz PTP radio,
> Mimosa B5, B5C, B5-Lite, B11, the lowest cost TDD Siklu 80 GHz, etc. You
> buy these online with a credit card and there's no price negotiation. A
> pair of AF24HD costs pretty much the same no matter who you are unless
> you're buying in quantities of 60 at a time.
>
> (b) Radios from traditional backhaul manufacturers where the price might
> vary depending on you who are, if you're an ISP or an enterprise end user:
> Trango, Dragonwave, Bridgewave, Cambium's version of the Ceragon radio,
> Ceragon itself, Exalt, etc. You have to contact a human and talk to them to
> get a price on a new link.
>
>
> My question is: What products/companies would you put firmly in category
> A, and which in B? Which companies have products in both categories?
>
> What effect do you think this will have on the market in the long term as
> more companies follow the example of the Mimosa 11 GHz radio?
>
>
>
>
>


-- 
If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team as
part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.

Re: [AFMUG] CDN overload

[Josh Reynolds]

Shaping/policing at the head end eliminates this problem, and clears up
your backbone.
On Jul 12, 2016 7:06 PM, "Ken Hohhof"  wrote:

> When this happens it basically wipes out that customer’s Internet except
> for the CDN download, no matter where you do the rate limiting.  Customer
> of course assumes their ISP just sucks.  With a lot of education, you can
> convince most of them it is actually an aggressive application hogging
> their entire pipe and pushing all the other applications aside.  So I have
> customers that whenever their VPN to work stops working, they yell upstairs
> at their kid didn’t I tell you to do your Xbox downloads after I go to bed?
>
> One view is this isn’t a problem, customer uses bad application, feels
> pain, learns not to do that.  But everyone tells them it is always the
> ISP’s fault.  And people with fat pipes like 50 or 100 Mbps cable Internet
> probably don’t experience this problem, which reinforces the idea that it’s
> the ISP’s fault.
>
>
> *From:* Darin Steffl 
> *Sent:* Tuesday, July 12, 2016 5:42 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] CDN overload
>
>
> Why aren't you rate limiting at the core closer to your upstream? Keep the
> traffic off your last mile and wireless backhaul network if you can help
> it.
>
> Works much better to throttle at the core instead of CPE.
>
> Sent from my smartphone. Please excuse any typos.
> On Jul 12, 2016 5:13 PM, "George Skorup"  wrote:
>
>> I have had it with these CDNs sending more traffic than the last mile can
>> handle. Got a customer at 1.5Mbps on 900 FSK and they're sending to her at
>> 15Mbps. Of course the AP reports RF downlink overloaded.
>>
>

Re: [AFMUG] does this mean the passwords compromised?

[Josh Reynolds]

If they want a public/static IPv4 without the blocking, they bypass the
filtering. That's a $20 or $30/month service with Google.

IPv4 is no longer cheap.

This adds revenue while helping to prevent issues with infected customer
routers. Very common ISP practice.
On Jul 12, 2016 7:17 PM, "That One Guy /sarcasm" 
wrote:

> lol, its funny you say that, this happens to be the guy a while back i
> posted about who was convinced that one of JABs acquisition APs infected
> him, and all his devices. this guy wanted to make it our problem now by
> putting our router back in place, which was fine, more visibility for us if
> hes a threat to our network.
>
> Im not sure what proper firewalls you speak of Josh for customer
> equipment, we provide a cheap consumer router that occasionally ends up on
> our exposed public IP space, its no different than the customers own
> router, only we can lock it down so they cant mess things up. Aside from us
> managing the device, two air routers side by side are both air routers even
> if we own one and they own one. Are you recomending on our ISP network we
> block 80, 443, 22, 21 for all customers? because that will piss off alot of
> DVR owners.
>
>
>
> On Tue, Jul 12, 2016 at 4:45 PM, Bill Prince  wrote:
>
>> No I didn't realize that. That's a whole other story. I would advise the
>> customer to not allow direct access from the outside excepting perhaps VPN
>> access. Otherwise, it's their problem. They probably have their
>> smarter-than-they-are phone getting hacked.
>>
>>
>> bp
>> 
>>
>>
>> On 7/12/2016 2:26 PM, That One Guy /sarcasm wrote:
>>
>> You realize this is a residential customer router right? not
>> infrastructure, not a CPE radio, those are all inaccessible
>> We dump a config that puts a single IP outside the dhcp pool on the DMZ.
>> If they want a public IP, they can do whatever they want as long as it
>> doesnt violate our TOS 53 and 123 would, everything but our management port
>> goes into the DMZ. And the only people with customer router credentials are
>> the staff who would need to get into them to turn on or off the wireless,
>> we defaultly put them out with it off.
>>
>> On Tue, Jul 12, 2016 at 4:17 PM, Bill Prince  wrote:
>>
>>> You should limit the scope of who can even attempt to login.
>>>
>>> bp
>>> 
>>>
>>>
>>> On 7/12/2016 1:23 PM, That One Guy /sarcasm wrote:
>>>
>>> Jul 12 12:11:05 httpd[6948]: Bad password attempt for 'admin' from 
>>> c-98-226-167-23.hsd1.il.comcast.net
>>> Jul 12 12:11:28 httpd[6952]: Password auth succeeded for 'admin' from 
>>> c-98-226-167-23.hsd1.il.comcast.net
>>>
>>> This is from an airrouter with a strong password.. we just went through a 
>>> password change too
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team
>>> as part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team
>> as part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team
> as part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.
>

Re: [AFMUG] does this mean the passwords compromised?

[That One Guy /sarcasm]

lol, its funny you say that, this happens to be the guy a while back i
posted about who was convinced that one of JABs acquisition APs infected
him, and all his devices. this guy wanted to make it our problem now by
putting our router back in place, which was fine, more visibility for us if
hes a threat to our network.

Im not sure what proper firewalls you speak of Josh for customer equipment,
we provide a cheap consumer router that occasionally ends up on our exposed
public IP space, its no different than the customers own router, only we
can lock it down so they cant mess things up. Aside from us managing the
device, two air routers side by side are both air routers even if we own
one and they own one. Are you recomending on our ISP network we block 80,
443, 22, 21 for all customers? because that will piss off alot of DVR
owners.



On Tue, Jul 12, 2016 at 4:45 PM, Bill Prince  wrote:

> No I didn't realize that. That's a whole other story. I would advise the
> customer to not allow direct access from the outside excepting perhaps VPN
> access. Otherwise, it's their problem. They probably have their
> smarter-than-they-are phone getting hacked.
>
>
> bp
> 
>
>
> On 7/12/2016 2:26 PM, That One Guy /sarcasm wrote:
>
> You realize this is a residential customer router right? not
> infrastructure, not a CPE radio, those are all inaccessible
> We dump a config that puts a single IP outside the dhcp pool on the DMZ.
> If they want a public IP, they can do whatever they want as long as it
> doesnt violate our TOS 53 and 123 would, everything but our management port
> goes into the DMZ. And the only people with customer router credentials are
> the staff who would need to get into them to turn on or off the wireless,
> we defaultly put them out with it off.
>
> On Tue, Jul 12, 2016 at 4:17 PM, Bill Prince  wrote:
>
>> You should limit the scope of who can even attempt to login.
>>
>> bp
>> 
>>
>>
>> On 7/12/2016 1:23 PM, That One Guy /sarcasm wrote:
>>
>> Jul 12 12:11:05 httpd[6948]: Bad password attempt for 'admin' from 
>> c-98-226-167-23.hsd1.il.comcast.net
>> Jul 12 12:11:28 httpd[6952]: Password auth succeeded for 'admin' from 
>> c-98-226-167-23.hsd1.il.comcast.net
>>
>> This is from an airrouter with a strong password.. we just went through a 
>> password change too
>>
>>
>> --
>> If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team
>> as part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team
> as part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.
>
>
>


-- 
If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team as
part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.

Re: [AFMUG] CDN overload

[Ken Hohhof]

When this happens it basically wipes out that customer’s Internet except for 
the CDN download, no matter where you do the rate limiting.  Customer of course 
assumes their ISP just sucks.  With a lot of education, you can convince most 
of them it is actually an aggressive application hogging their entire pipe and 
pushing all the other applications aside.  So I have customers that whenever 
their VPN to work stops working, they yell upstairs at their kid didn’t I tell 
you to do your Xbox downloads after I go to bed?

One view is this isn’t a problem, customer uses bad application, feels pain, 
learns not to do that.  But everyone tells them it is always the ISP’s fault.  
And people with fat pipes like 50 or 100 Mbps cable Internet probably don’t 
experience this problem, which reinforces the idea that it’s the ISP’s fault.


From: Darin Steffl 
Sent: Tuesday, July 12, 2016 5:42 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] CDN overload

Why aren't you rate limiting at the core closer to your upstream? Keep the 
traffic off your last mile and wireless backhaul network if you can help it. 

Works much better to throttle at the core instead of CPE. 

Sent from my smartphone. Please excuse any typos. 

On Jul 12, 2016 5:13 PM, "George Skorup"  wrote:

  I have had it with these CDNs sending more traffic than the last mile can 
handle. Got a customer at 1.5Mbps on 900 FSK and they're sending to her at 
15Mbps. Of course the AP reports RF downlink overloaded.

Re: [AFMUG] CDN overload

[Paul Stewart]

That’s really strange .. and have heard that with LLNW before on this list…. 
but I’ve never actually seen it in action …   the traffic should ramp up until 
it starts to get some loss/degragation and then taper to the point of using as 
much as possible…. 


> On Jul 12, 2016, at 3:13 PM, George Skorup  wrote:
> 
> I have had it with these CDNs sending more traffic than the last mile can 
> handle. Got a customer at 1.5Mbps on 900 FSK and they're sending to her at 
> 15Mbps. Of course the AP reports RF downlink overloaded.

Re: [AFMUG] PTP link radio pricing: Retail vs. RFQ

[Ken Hohhof]

Good question, I will tell you, it pisses me off when I buy a radio from a 
category B vendor and find out some other company (maybe a competitor) got a 
much better price.  Not because they bought a truckload, but because they 
whined louder or were bigger dicks or knew someone.  Or it was the end of the 
quarter and somebody wanted to make quota.  Similarly, I don’t like getting a 
good price, assuming that will be my price for my next project, but then the 
vendor says that quote was a special price we can’t do that now.


From: Eric Kuhnke 
Sent: Tuesday, July 12, 2016 6:24 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: [AFMUG] PTP link radio pricing: Retail vs. RFQ

It seems the high capacity PTP radio market is segmenting into two categories:


(a) Radios that are low cost and have a fixed price, there's no need to talk to 
a manufacturer/vendor sales rep to get a price. The radios don't have things 
like special license keys for certain features or extra money to enable XPIC. 
Example: AF24, AF24HD, the IgniteNet 60 GHz PTP radio, Mimosa B5, B5C, B5-Lite, 
B11, the lowest cost TDD Siklu 80 GHz, etc. You buy these online with a credit 
card and there's no price negotiation. A pair of AF24HD costs pretty much the 
same no matter who you are unless you're buying in quantities of 60 at a time.


(b) Radios from traditional backhaul manufacturers where the price might vary 
depending on you who are, if you're an ISP or an enterprise end user: Trango, 
Dragonwave, Bridgewave, Cambium's version of the Ceragon radio, Ceragon itself, 
Exalt, etc. You have to contact a human and talk to them to get a price on a 
new link.



My question is: What products/companies would you put firmly in category A, and 
which in B? Which companies have products in both categories?


What effect do you think this will have on the market in the long term as more 
companies follow the example of the Mimosa 11 GHz radio?

Re: [AFMUG] KP Dual Band Sectors

[Matt]

How did the mounting of AP's work out?  Any pictures?  Curious how the
450 AP's mount up and look.


On Tue, Jul 12, 2016 at 6:19 PM, Kade Sullivan  wrote:
> Just raised our first dual band sector array a couple weeks ago.  Haven't
> had much time to compare the coverage to our other towers, but they are
> performing great so far in both 5 gig and 3.65
>
> On Tue, Jul 12, 2016 at 6:10 PM, Josh Luthman 
> wrote:
>>
>> Using it on other radios.  Love them.  Two sectors in one vertical mount
>> point.
>>
>> Josh Luthman
>> Office: 937-552-2340
>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>> 1100 Wayne St
>> Suite 1337
>> Troy, OH 45373
>>
>> On Jul 12, 2016 6:48 PM, "Matt"  wrote:
>>>
>>> Anyone out there using the KP Dual Band Sectors with 450 gear?  How do
>>> you like it so far?
>
>

[AFMUG] PTP link radio pricing: Retail vs. RFQ

[Eric Kuhnke]

It seems the high capacity PTP radio market is segmenting into two
categories:

(a) Radios that are low cost and have a fixed price, there's no need to
talk to a manufacturer/vendor sales rep to get a price. The radios don't
have things like special license keys for certain features or extra money
to enable XPIC. Example: AF24, AF24HD, the IgniteNet 60 GHz PTP radio,
Mimosa B5, B5C, B5-Lite, B11, the lowest cost TDD Siklu 80 GHz, etc. You
buy these online with a credit card and there's no price negotiation. A
pair of AF24HD costs pretty much the same no matter who you are unless
you're buying in quantities of 60 at a time.

(b) Radios from traditional backhaul manufacturers where the price might
vary depending on you who are, if you're an ISP or an enterprise end user:
Trango, Dragonwave, Bridgewave, Cambium's version of the Ceragon radio,
Ceragon itself, Exalt, etc. You have to contact a human and talk to them to
get a price on a new link.


My question is: What products/companies would you put firmly in category A,
and which in B? Which companies have products in both categories?

What effect do you think this will have on the market in the long term as
more companies follow the example of the Mimosa 11 GHz radio?

Re: [AFMUG] CDN overload

[George Skorup]

Yup. LLNW.

On 7/12/2016 5:35 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
I assume you torched the traffic and verified it is all coming from a 
particular CDN, not a random bunch of IPs as would be the case with 
BT.  Since this isn’t your first rodeo.

*From:* George Skorup 
*Sent:* Tuesday, July 12, 2016 5:31 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com 
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] CDN overload
Because they dick with TCP.

On 7/12/2016 5:23 PM, Eric Kuhnke wrote:
And why is it the fault of the CDN?  It could be a customer with a 
100-peer bittorrent session downloading 30GB of Ubuntu DVD ISOs.
On Tue, Jul 12, 2016 at 3:13 PM, George Skorup > wrote:


I have had it with these CDNs sending more traffic than the last
mile can handle. Got a customer at 1.5Mbps on 900 FSK and they're
sending to her at 15Mbps. Of course the AP reports RF downlink
overloaded.

Re: [AFMUG] KP Dual Band Sectors

[Kade Sullivan]

Just raised our first dual band sector array a couple weeks ago.  Haven't
had much time to compare the coverage to our other towers, but they are
performing great so far in both 5 gig and 3.65

On Tue, Jul 12, 2016 at 6:10 PM, Josh Luthman 
wrote:

> Using it on other radios.  Love them.  Two sectors in one vertical mount
> point.
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
> On Jul 12, 2016 6:48 PM, "Matt"  wrote:
>
>> Anyone out there using the KP Dual Band Sectors with 450 gear?  How do
>> you like it so far?
>>
>

Re: [AFMUG] KP Dual Band Sectors

[Josh Luthman]

Using it on other radios.  Love them.  Two sectors in one vertical mount
point.

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373
On Jul 12, 2016 6:48 PM, "Matt"  wrote:

> Anyone out there using the KP Dual Band Sectors with 450 gear?  How do
> you like it so far?
>

[AFMUG] KP Dual Band Sectors

[Matt]

Anyone out there using the KP Dual Band Sectors with 450 gear?  How do
you like it so far?

Re: [AFMUG] CDN overload

[Darin Steffl]

Why aren't you rate limiting at the core closer to your upstream? Keep the
traffic off your last mile and wireless backhaul network if you can help
it.

Works much better to throttle at the core instead of CPE.

Sent from my smartphone. Please excuse any typos.
On Jul 12, 2016 5:13 PM, "George Skorup"  wrote:

> I have had it with these CDNs sending more traffic than the last mile can
> handle. Got a customer at 1.5Mbps on 900 FSK and they're sending to her at
> 15Mbps. Of course the AP reports RF downlink overloaded.
>

Re: [AFMUG] CDN overload

[Ken Hohhof]

I assume you torched the traffic and verified it is all coming from a 
particular CDN, not a random bunch of IPs as would be the case with BT.  Since 
this isn’t your first rodeo.

From: George Skorup 
Sent: Tuesday, July 12, 2016 5:31 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] CDN overload

Because they dick with TCP.


On 7/12/2016 5:23 PM, Eric Kuhnke wrote:

  And why is it the fault of the CDN?  It could be a customer with a 100-peer 
bittorrent session downloading 30GB of Ubuntu DVD ISOs.


  On Tue, Jul 12, 2016 at 3:13 PM, George Skorup  wrote:

I have had it with these CDNs sending more traffic than the last mile can 
handle. Got a customer at 1.5Mbps on 900 FSK and they're sending to her at 
15Mbps. Of course the AP reports RF downlink overloaded.

Re: [AFMUG] old laptops

[Daniel White]

That would do the trick.

If the FBI is determined, they can get data off of disks that have been set on 
fire.  A few 1/4" holes are not going to stop them.

Shredding is probably the most secure way.

Daniel White
Managing Director – Hardware Distribution Sales
ConVergence Technologies
Cell: +1 (303) 746-3590
dwh...@converge-tech.com

> -Original Message-
> From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Chuck McCown
> Sent: Tuesday, July 12, 2016 12:59 PM
> To: af@afmug.com
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] old laptops
>
> Thermite
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Seth Mattinen
> Sent: Tuesday, July 12, 2016 12:58 PM
> To: af@afmug.com
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] old laptops
>
> On 7/12/16 11:55, Josh Luthman wrote:
> > That's why you drill a few 1/4" holes.
>
>
> A Hilti gun requires less effort.
>
> ~Seth


---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus

Re: [AFMUG] CDN overload

[George Skorup]

Because they dick with TCP.

On 7/12/2016 5:23 PM, Eric Kuhnke wrote:
And why is it the fault of the CDN?  It could be a customer with a 
100-peer bittorrent session downloading 30GB of Ubuntu DVD ISOs.


On Tue, Jul 12, 2016 at 3:13 PM, George Skorup > wrote:


I have had it with these CDNs sending more traffic than the last
mile can handle. Got a customer at 1.5Mbps on 900 FSK and they're
sending to her at 15Mbps. Of course the AP reports RF downlink
overloaded.

Re: [AFMUG] Comcast outage

[Jaime Solorza]

getting reroute updates from guys out of Alaska I do contract work forI
have opened those yet

Jaime Solorza
Wireless Systems Architect
915-861-1390

On Tue, Jul 12, 2016 at 1:49 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:

> Salt Lake City.  Anywhere else?
>

Re: [AFMUG] CDN overload

[Eric Kuhnke]

And why is it the fault of the CDN?  It could be a customer with a 100-peer
bittorrent session downloading 30GB of Ubuntu DVD ISOs.

On Tue, Jul 12, 2016 at 3:13 PM, George Skorup  wrote:

> I have had it with these CDNs sending more traffic than the last mile can
> handle. Got a customer at 1.5Mbps on 900 FSK and they're sending to her at
> 15Mbps. Of course the AP reports RF downlink overloaded.
>

[AFMUG] CDN overload

[George Skorup]

I have had it with these CDNs sending more traffic than the last mile 
can handle. Got a customer at 1.5Mbps on 900 FSK and they're sending to 
her at 15Mbps. Of course the AP reports RF downlink overloaded.

Re: [AFMUG] does this mean the passwords compromised?

[Bill Prince]

No I didn't realize that. That's a whole other story. I would advise the 
customer to not allow direct access from the outside excepting perhaps 
VPN access. Otherwise, it's their problem. They probably have their 
smarter-than-they-are phone getting hacked.



bp


On 7/12/2016 2:26 PM, That One Guy /sarcasm wrote:
You realize this is a residential customer router right? not 
infrastructure, not a CPE radio, those are all inaccessible
We dump a config that puts a single IP outside the dhcp pool on the 
DMZ. If they want a public IP, they can do whatever they want as long 
as it doesnt violate our TOS 53 and 123 would, everything but our 
management port goes into the DMZ. And the only people with customer 
router credentials are the staff who would need to get into them to 
turn on or off the wireless, we defaultly put them out with it off.


On Tue, Jul 12, 2016 at 4:17 PM, Bill Prince > wrote:


You should limit the scope of who can even attempt to login.

bp


On 7/12/2016 1:23 PM, That One Guy /sarcasm wrote:

Jul 12 12:11:05 httpd[6948]: Bad password attempt for 'admin' 
fromc-98-226-167-23.hsd1.il.comcast.net

Jul 12 12:11:28 httpd[6952]: Password auth succeeded for 'admin' 
fromc-98-226-167-23.hsd1.il.comcast.net

This is from an airrouter with a strong password.. we just went through a 
password change too

-- 
If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see

your team as part of yourself you have already failed as part of
the team.





--
If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your 
team as part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.

Re: [AFMUG] does this mean the passwords compromised?

[Josh Reynolds]

Dealing with infected customer routers is not fun. Cleanup is not fun.
Service complaints all over social media and via email and phone are
not fun.

Proper firewall policies are a good way to avoid all of that, with minimal fuss.

On Tue, Jul 12, 2016 at 4:26 PM, That One Guy /sarcasm
 wrote:
> You realize this is a residential customer router right? not infrastructure,
> not a CPE radio, those are all inaccessible
> We dump a config that puts a single IP outside the dhcp pool on the DMZ. If
> they want a public IP, they can do whatever they want as long as it doesnt
> violate our TOS 53 and 123 would, everything but our management port goes
> into the DMZ. And the only people with customer router credentials are the
> staff who would need to get into them to turn on or off the wireless, we
> defaultly put them out with it off.
>
> On Tue, Jul 12, 2016 at 4:17 PM, Bill Prince  wrote:
>>
>> You should limit the scope of who can even attempt to login.
>>
>> bp
>> 
>>
>> On 7/12/2016 1:23 PM, That One Guy /sarcasm wrote:
>>
>> Jul 12 12:11:05 httpd[6948]: Bad password attempt for 'admin' from
>> c-98-226-167-23.hsd1.il.comcast.net
>> Jul 12 12:11:28 httpd[6952]: Password auth succeeded for 'admin' from
>> c-98-226-167-23.hsd1.il.comcast.net
>>
>> This is from an airrouter with a strong password.. we just went through a
>> password change too
>>
>>
>> --
>> If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team
>> as part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.
>>
>>
>
>
>
> --
> If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team as
> part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.

Re: [AFMUG] does this mean the passwords compromised?

[That One Guy /sarcasm]

You realize this is a residential customer router right? not
infrastructure, not a CPE radio, those are all inaccessible
We dump a config that puts a single IP outside the dhcp pool on the DMZ. If
they want a public IP, they can do whatever they want as long as it doesnt
violate our TOS 53 and 123 would, everything but our management port goes
into the DMZ. And the only people with customer router credentials are the
staff who would need to get into them to turn on or off the wireless, we
defaultly put them out with it off.

On Tue, Jul 12, 2016 at 4:17 PM, Bill Prince  wrote:

> You should limit the scope of who can even attempt to login.
>
> bp
> 
>
>
> On 7/12/2016 1:23 PM, That One Guy /sarcasm wrote:
>
> Jul 12 12:11:05 httpd[6948]: Bad password attempt for 'admin' from 
> c-98-226-167-23.hsd1.il.comcast.net
> Jul 12 12:11:28 httpd[6952]: Password auth succeeded for 'admin' from 
> c-98-226-167-23.hsd1.il.comcast.net
>
> This is from an airrouter with a strong password.. we just went through a 
> password change too
>
>
> --
> If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team
> as part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.
>
>
>


-- 
If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team as
part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.

[AFMUG] IPoE vs PPPoE and Etc.

[Matt]

Anyone using IPoE in place of PPPoE?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IPoE

We have been using Mikrotik PPPoE servers for many years now.  It
works pretty well and even has allowed us to test IPv6 pretty easily.
Also allows centralized bandwidth and authentication management. It
does have it limitations namely that a customer cannot just plug in
and get there public IP.  Some business class routers do a very poor
job of pppoe as well.  Just thought I would ask what other options are
available now?

Re: [AFMUG] Larger Not-that-high-res monitors

[Seth Mattinen]

On 7/12/16 14:17, Eric Kuhnke wrote:

I don't think anybody even makes 1920x1200 panels anymore. There's lots
of 1920x1080 (ugh), and lots of 2560x1440, or of course 4K.



But 1920x1080 is HD, you want HD don't you?

Re: [AFMUG] Larger Not-that-high-res monitors

[Eric Kuhnke]

Most of those super cheap ones on clearance sale are 30 Hz refresh. You
could use it as a digital signage display in the window of a store or
something, but used as a monitor or TV they'd be painful to watch.



On Tue, Jul 12, 2016 at 10:22 AM, Bill Prince  wrote:

> Would this work? 49" diagonal, and 3840 x 2160 UHD. $285. Humma humma.
>
>
> https://www.amazon.com/Avera-49EQX10-49-Ultra-LED/dp/B01FRQGN16/ref=sr_1_1?s=tv&ie=UTF8&qid=1468344057&sr=1-1&keywords=4k+tv+32+inch&refinements=p_n_feature_keywords_three_browse-bin%3A7688788011
>
> bp
> 
>
>
> On 7/12/2016 7:59 AM, Chuck McCown wrote:
>
> I have a 32” LG TV at one office.  Big enough for browser on the left and
> email on the right.  1080p
> Resolution is just fine for my tired eyes.Super cheap.  Plus it has a
> tuner and OTT client inside.
>
> *From:* Lewis Bergman 
> *Sent:* Tuesday, July 12, 2016 8:45 AM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Larger Not-that-high-res monitors
>
> I had thought about buying 2 32" TV's instead of 4 24" but I was concerned
> about the resolution and having to "blow up" the text big enough to see.
> What does your setup look like Chuck?
> I connect to my 65" curved Samsung in my office but I do so wirelessly
> (should have run HDMI when I built my new place. Can't believe I forgot
> that.) and the performance on that setup is pretty laggy as you would
> expect.
>
> On Tue, Jul 12, 2016 at 9:07 AM Ken Hohhof  wrote:
>
>> Lots of Hanns-G repair kits for sale, sounds like they have a bulging
>> capacitor problem.  If you bought a bunch of those monitors (but no
>> spares),
>> this may just be the first one to die.
>>
>> Probably not much demand today for 28 inch monitors with only 1920x1200
>> resolution, might look for about twice that.
>>
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: Chuck McCown
>> Sent: Tuesday, July 12, 2016 8:51 AM
>> To: af@afmug.com
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Larger Not-that-high-res monitors
>>
>> I buy TVs.
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: Nate Burke
>> Sent: Monday, July 11, 2016 9:59 PM
>> To: Animal Farm
>> Subject: [AFMUG] Larger Not-that-high-res monitors
>>
>> One of my desktop Hanns-G 28" 1920x1200 monitors just crapped out. I was
>> using it, and the display went all white, and I can't even bring up the
>> monitor controls.  I went to look for a replacement and apparently these
>> are an odd bird.  The 1920x1200 monitors I'm finding are 26" or less,
>> and start at $300.  I think I only paid like $250 when I bought these
>> new back in 2011.  Has something changed with Monitors that they're all
>> smaller and more expensive now?
>>
>>
>>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Larger Not-that-high-res monitors

[Eric Kuhnke]

I don't think anybody even makes 1920x1200 panels anymore. There's lots of
1920x1080 (ugh), and lots of 2560x1440, or of course 4K.

On Mon, Jul 11, 2016 at 8:59 PM, Nate Burke  wrote:

> One of my desktop Hanns-G 28" 1920x1200 monitors just crapped out. I was
> using it, and the display went all white, and I can't even bring up the
> monitor controls.  I went to look for a replacement and apparently these
> are an odd bird.  The 1920x1200 monitors I'm finding are 26" or less, and
> start at $300.  I think I only paid like $250 when I bought these new back
> in 2011.  Has something changed with Monitors that they're all smaller and
> more expensive now?
>

Re: [AFMUG] does this mean the passwords compromised?

[Bill Prince]

You should limit the scope of who can even attempt to login.

bp


On 7/12/2016 1:23 PM, That One Guy /sarcasm wrote:
Jul 12 12:11:05 httpd[6948]: Bad password attempt for 'admin' fromc-98-226-167-23.hsd1.il.comcast.net 

Jul 12 12:11:28 httpd[6952]: Password auth succeeded for 'admin' fromc-98-226-167-23.hsd1.il.comcast.net 


This is from an airrouter with a strong password.. we just went through a 
password change too

--
If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your 
team as part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.

Re: [AFMUG] old laptops

[timothy steele]

Take the magnet's out of all the hard drives and use them to hover around
your office ;)







On Tue, Jul 12, 2016, 4:58 PM Bruce Robertson  wrote:

> I'm sure they can, but I don't have anything that the FBI would be
> interested in.  I'm more concerned about your everyday identity thief.
>
>
> On 07/12/2016 11:26 AM, Chuck McCown wrote:
>
> My oldest son works with the cyber crimes law enforcement folks.  He
> claims the FBI can still get good stuff from a disk that has been
> hammered.
>
>
> *From:* Bruce Robertson 
> *Sent:* Tuesday, July 12, 2016 12:24 PM
>
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] old laptops
>
> My technique for destroying old disks is to take them out of the laptop
> and then pound them a few times with a sledgehammer.  Seems to do the trick.
>
> On 07/12/2016 10:45 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
>
> 486 with WinME ... face it, they’re e-waste.
>
> Find an electronics recycler that will guarantee they’ll wipe or destroy
> the disks and won’t charge to take them off your hands.
>
> If they work and have an Ethernet port and maybe a serial port, keep at
> least one of them around for when you need to program equipment.  And if
> they have a diskette drive and CD/DVD drive, maybe keep one around in case
> you need to read one of those.  New “ultrabooks” tend to assume everything
> is WiFi and stored in the cloud.
>
>
>
> *From:* Simon Westlake 
>
> *Sent:* Tuesday, July 12, 2016 11:57 AM
>
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] old laptops
>
> If they are that old, I doubt they have too much value for charities.
> You'd probably be lucky to give them away, I have a few that aren't even as
> old as that, and I haven't been able to find anyone that wants them.
>
> I would just take them to Goodwill if you don't want them to go to waste,
> putting the OS back on them would probably help most people.
>
> On 7/12/2016 11:49 AM, Chuck McCown wrote:
>
> Some of them have Windows ME on them 486 machines.
>
> *From:* Bruce Robertson 
> *Sent:* Tuesday, July 12, 2016 10:48 AM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] old laptops
>
> Chuck has 'em, not me!
>
> On 07/12/2016 09:44 AM, Tim Reichhart wrote:
>
> Bruce
> what kind of laptops you got? I am always looking for laptops for my wisp.
>
> Tim
>
> --
> -Original Message-
> From: "Glen Waldrop" < gwl...@cngwireless.net>
> To: af@afmug.com
> Date: 07/12/16 12:40 PM
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] old laptops
>
> If you did I'd wipe and reload.
>
> Anyone going to a thrift store for a computer is either poor and likely
> can't do anything with it if there is a problem or possibly a techie,
> they'll wipe and reload regardless.
>
>
>
> - Original Message -
>  *From:* Chuck McCown 
>  *To:* af@afmug.com
>  *Sent:* Tuesday, July 12, 2016 11:38 AM
>  *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] old laptops
>
>
> I am wondering if they have much value for charities.  I suppose thrift
> stores sell them.
> Should I leave the OS on them?
>
>
>
>
>  *From:* Bruce Robertson 
> *Sent:* Tuesday, July 12, 2016 10:36 AM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] old laptops
>
>
>
>
> Wipe the disks and donate them to a charity.
>
> On 07/12/2016 09:34 AM, Chuck McCown wrote:
>
>
> What should I do with a tower of old laptops stacking up at my house.� I
> hate to toss them.� I am sure most of them can be made to work, perhaps
> with a new battery.�
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> Simon Westlake
> Skype: Simon_Sonar
> Email: simon@sonar.software
> Phone: (702) 447-1247
> ---
> Sonar Software Inc
> The next generation of ISP billing and OSShttps://sonar.software
>
>
> !DSPAM:2,57853662190236315634601!
>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] old laptops

[Bruce Robertson]

I'm sure they can, but I don't have anything that the FBI would be 
interested in.  I'm more concerned about your everyday identity thief.


On 07/12/2016 11:26 AM, Chuck McCown wrote:
My oldest son works with the cyber crimes law enforcement folks.  He 
claims the FBI can still get good stuff from a disk that has been 
hammered.

*From:* Bruce Robertson 
*Sent:* Tuesday, July 12, 2016 12:24 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com 
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] old laptops
My technique for destroying old disks is to take them out of the 
laptop and then pound them a few times with a sledgehammer.  Seems to 
do the trick.


On 07/12/2016 10:45 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote:

486 with WinME ... face it, they’re e-waste.
Find an electronics recycler that will guarantee they’ll wipe or 
destroy the disks and won’t charge to take them off your hands.
If they work and have an Ethernet port and maybe a serial port, keep 
at least one of them around for when you need to program equipment.  
And if they have a diskette drive and CD/DVD drive, maybe keep one 
around in case you need to read one of those. New “ultrabooks” tend 
to assume everything is WiFi and stored in the cloud.

*From:* Simon Westlake 
*Sent:* Tuesday, July 12, 2016 11:57 AM
*To:* af@afmug.com 
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] old laptops
If they are that old, I doubt they have too much value for charities. 
You'd probably be lucky to give them away, I have a few that aren't 
even as old as that, and I haven't been able to find anyone that 
wants them.


I would just take them to Goodwill if you don't want them to go to 
waste, putting the OS back on them would probably help most people.


On 7/12/2016 11:49 AM, Chuck McCown wrote:

Some of them have Windows ME on them 486 machines.
*From:* Bruce Robertson 
*Sent:* Tuesday, July 12, 2016 10:48 AM
*To:* af@afmug.com 
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] old laptops
Chuck has 'em, not me!

On 07/12/2016 09:44 AM, Tim Reichhart wrote:

Bruce
what kind of laptops you got? I am always looking for laptops for 
my wisp.


Tim


-Original Message-
From: "Glen Waldrop" 
To: af@afmug.com 
Date: 07/12/16 12:40 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] old laptops

If you did I'd wipe and reload.

Anyone going to a thrift store for a computer is either poor
and likely can't do anything with it if there is a problem or
possibly a techie, they'll wipe and reload regardless.

- Original Message -
*From:* Chuck McCown 
*To:* af@afmug.com
*Sent:* Tuesday, July 12, 2016 11:38 AM
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] old laptops
I am wondering if they have much value for charities.  I
suppose thrift stores sell them.
Should I leave the OS on them?
*From:* Bruce Robertson 
*Sent:* Tuesday, July 12, 2016 10:36 AM
*To:* af@afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] old laptops
Wipe the disks and donate them to a charity.

On 07/12/2016 09:34 AM, Chuck McCown wrote:

What should I do with a tower of old laptops stacking up
at my house.� I hate to toss them.� I am sure most of
them can be made to work, perhaps with a new battery.�






--
Simon Westlake
Skype: Simon_Sonar
Email:simon@sonar.software
Phone: (702) 447-1247
---
Sonar Software Inc
The next generation of ISP billing and OSS
https://sonar.software


!DSPAM:2,57853662190236315634601! 

Re: [AFMUG] Comcast outage

[Chuck McCown]

http://www.local10.com/news/comcast-suffers-major-nationwide-phone-service-outage

-Original Message- 
From: Micah Miller

Sent: Tuesday, July 12, 2016 2:51 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Comcast outage

Enterprise or consumer?

On Tue, Jul 12, 2016 at 3:49 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:

Salt Lake City.  Anywhere else?




--
Micah Miller
Network/Server Administrator
Network Business Systems, Inc.
Phone: 309-944-8823 

Re: [AFMUG] Comcast outage

[Chuck McCown]

Yeah

-Original Message- 
From: Josh Reynolds 
Sent: Tuesday, July 12, 2016 2:51 PM 
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Comcast outage 


Big phone outage if that's what you're talking about.

On Tue, Jul 12, 2016 at 3:49 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:

Salt Lake City.  Anywhere else?

Re: [AFMUG] Comcast outage

[Micah Miller]

Enterprise or consumer?

On Tue, Jul 12, 2016 at 3:49 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:
> Salt Lake City.  Anywhere else?



-- 
Micah Miller
Network/Server Administrator
Network Business Systems, Inc.
Phone: 309-944-8823

Re: [AFMUG] does this mean the passwords compromised?

[Josh Reynolds]

=)

On Tue, Jul 12, 2016 at 3:51 PM, That One Guy /sarcasm
 wrote:
> ha, good call
>
> It turns out a CSM is remote today
>
> On Tue, Jul 12, 2016 at 3:44 PM, Josh Reynolds  wrote:
>>
>> Is it possible there's a tech on comcast that came from that IP?
>>
>> Another question: Why are you not blocking ports 21/22/53/80/123/443
>> inbound to your network?
>>
>> On Tue, Jul 12, 2016 at 3:39 PM, That One Guy /sarcasm
>>
>>  wrote:
>> > Maybe the boss sold us to comcast and just doesnt have the heart to tell
>> > me
>> >
>> > On Tue, Jul 12, 2016 at 3:37 PM, Josh Reynolds 
>> > wrote:
>> >>
>> >> Are you sure that isn't YOUR login?
>> >>
>> >> On Tue, Jul 12, 2016 at 3:35 PM, That One Guy /sarcasm
>> >>
>> >>  wrote:
>> >> > limited to 8 characters and installer memorable so... 4 uppercase, 2
>> >> > lowercase one numeral, one symbol
>> >> >
>> >> > https://www.grc.com/haystack.htm said online crack@1k/second 2.13k
>> >> > centuries
>> >> >
>> >> > I expected more than two guesses
>> >> >
>> >> > On Tue, Jul 12, 2016 at 3:28 PM, Josh Reynolds 
>> >> > wrote:
>> >> >>
>> >> >> That's what it looks like, yes.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Also, define "strong password"
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >> On Tue, Jul 12, 2016 at 3:23 PM, That One Guy /sarcasm
>> >> >>  wrote:
>> >> >> > Jul 12 12:11:05 httpd[6948]: Bad password attempt for 'admin' from
>> >> >> > c-98-226-167-23.hsd1.il.comcast.net
>> >> >> > Jul 12 12:11:28 httpd[6952]: Password auth succeeded for 'admin'
>> >> >> > from
>> >> >> > c-98-226-167-23.hsd1.il.comcast.net
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > This is from an airrouter with a strong password.. we just went
>> >> >> > through
>> >> >> > a
>> >> >> > password change too
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > --
>> >> >> > If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see
>> >> >> > your
>> >> >> > team
>> >> >> > as
>> >> >> > part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > --
>> >> > If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your
>> >> > team
>> >> > as
>> >> > part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > --
>> > If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team
>> > as
>> > part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.
>
>
>
>
> --
> If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team as
> part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.

Re: [AFMUG] Comcast outage

[Josh Reynolds]

Big phone outage if that's what you're talking about.

On Tue, Jul 12, 2016 at 3:49 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:
> Salt Lake City.  Anywhere else?

Re: [AFMUG] does this mean the passwords compromised?

[That One Guy /sarcasm]

ha, good call

It turns out a CSM is remote today

On Tue, Jul 12, 2016 at 3:44 PM, Josh Reynolds  wrote:

> Is it possible there's a tech on comcast that came from that IP?
>
> Another question: Why are you not blocking ports 21/22/53/80/123/443
> inbound to your network?
>
> On Tue, Jul 12, 2016 at 3:39 PM, That One Guy /sarcasm
>  wrote:
> > Maybe the boss sold us to comcast and just doesnt have the heart to tell
> me
> >
> > On Tue, Jul 12, 2016 at 3:37 PM, Josh Reynolds 
> wrote:
> >>
> >> Are you sure that isn't YOUR login?
> >>
> >> On Tue, Jul 12, 2016 at 3:35 PM, That One Guy /sarcasm
> >>
> >>  wrote:
> >> > limited to 8 characters and installer memorable so... 4 uppercase, 2
> >> > lowercase one numeral, one symbol
> >> >
> >> > https://www.grc.com/haystack.htm said online crack@1k/second 2.13k
> >> > centuries
> >> >
> >> > I expected more than two guesses
> >> >
> >> > On Tue, Jul 12, 2016 at 3:28 PM, Josh Reynolds 
> >> > wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> That's what it looks like, yes.
> >> >>
> >> >> Also, define "strong password"
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> On Tue, Jul 12, 2016 at 3:23 PM, That One Guy /sarcasm
> >> >>  wrote:
> >> >> > Jul 12 12:11:05 httpd[6948]: Bad password attempt for 'admin' from
> >> >> > c-98-226-167-23.hsd1.il.comcast.net
> >> >> > Jul 12 12:11:28 httpd[6952]: Password auth succeeded for 'admin'
> from
> >> >> > c-98-226-167-23.hsd1.il.comcast.net
> >> >> >
> >> >> > This is from an airrouter with a strong password.. we just went
> >> >> > through
> >> >> > a
> >> >> > password change too
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> > --
> >> >> > If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your
> >> >> > team
> >> >> > as
> >> >> > part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > --
> >> > If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your
> team
> >> > as
> >> > part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team
> as
> > part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.
>



-- 
If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team as
part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.

Re: [AFMUG] old laptops

[CBB - Jay Fuller]

Recycle.  I'd even been known to recycle old CRT monitors and old ATX cases.
Got like $80 bucks for a basement full lol

  - Original Message - 
  From: Simon Westlake 
  To: af@afmug.com 
  Sent: Tuesday, July 12, 2016 11:57 AM
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] old laptops


  If they are that old, I doubt they have too much value for charities. You'd 
probably be lucky to give them away, I have a few that aren't even as old as 
that, and I haven't been able to find anyone that wants them.

  I would just take them to Goodwill if you don't want them to go to waste, 
putting the OS back on them would probably help most people. 


  On 7/12/2016 11:49 AM, Chuck McCown wrote:

Some of them have Windows ME on them 486 machines.  

From: Bruce Robertson 
Sent: Tuesday, July 12, 2016 10:48 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] old laptops

Chuck has 'em, not me!


On 07/12/2016 09:44 AM, Tim Reichhart wrote:

  Bruce
  what kind of laptops you got? I am always looking for laptops for my wisp.

  Tim




-Original Message-
From: "Glen Waldrop" 
To: af@afmug.com
Date: 07/12/16 12:40 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] old laptops


If you did I'd wipe and reload.

Anyone going to a thrift store for a computer is either poor and likely 
can't do anything with it if there is a problem or possibly a techie, they'll 
wipe and reload regardless.


  - Original Message -
   From: Chuck McCown 
   To: af@afmug.com 
   Sent: Tuesday, July 12, 2016 11:38 AM
   Subject: Re: [AFMUG] old laptops


  I am wondering if they have much value for charities.  I suppose 
thrift stores sell them. 
  Should I leave the OS on them?




   From: Bruce Robertson 
  Sent: Tuesday, July 12, 2016 10:36 AM
  To: af@afmug.com 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] old laptops
   
   

   Wipe the disks and donate them to a charity.


  On 07/12/2016 09:34 AM, Chuck McCown wrote:
   
What should I do with a tower of old laptops stacking up at my 
house.� I hate to toss them.� I am sure most of them can be made to work, 
perhaps with a new battery.�


   
  !DSPAM:2,57851e5a161376540316673! 




-- 
Simon Westlake
Skype: Simon_Sonar
Email: simon@sonar.software
Phone: (702) 447-1247
---
Sonar Software Inc
The next generation of ISP billing and OSS
https://sonar.software

[AFMUG] Comcast outage

[Chuck McCown]

Salt Lake City.  Anywhere else?

Re: [AFMUG] does this mean the passwords compromised?

[That One Guy /sarcasm]

Im only blocking 53 and 123 inbound to customer IP space, and this
particular customer router was offline when I changed the management port I
had been waiting for the customer to power it back on

On Tue, Jul 12, 2016 at 3:44 PM, Josh Reynolds  wrote:

> Is it possible there's a tech on comcast that came from that IP?
>
> Another question: Why are you not blocking ports 21/22/53/80/123/443
> inbound to your network?
>
> On Tue, Jul 12, 2016 at 3:39 PM, That One Guy /sarcasm
>  wrote:
> > Maybe the boss sold us to comcast and just doesnt have the heart to tell
> me
> >
> > On Tue, Jul 12, 2016 at 3:37 PM, Josh Reynolds 
> wrote:
> >>
> >> Are you sure that isn't YOUR login?
> >>
> >> On Tue, Jul 12, 2016 at 3:35 PM, That One Guy /sarcasm
> >>
> >>  wrote:
> >> > limited to 8 characters and installer memorable so... 4 uppercase, 2
> >> > lowercase one numeral, one symbol
> >> >
> >> > https://www.grc.com/haystack.htm said online crack@1k/second 2.13k
> >> > centuries
> >> >
> >> > I expected more than two guesses
> >> >
> >> > On Tue, Jul 12, 2016 at 3:28 PM, Josh Reynolds 
> >> > wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> That's what it looks like, yes.
> >> >>
> >> >> Also, define "strong password"
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> On Tue, Jul 12, 2016 at 3:23 PM, That One Guy /sarcasm
> >> >>  wrote:
> >> >> > Jul 12 12:11:05 httpd[6948]: Bad password attempt for 'admin' from
> >> >> > c-98-226-167-23.hsd1.il.comcast.net
> >> >> > Jul 12 12:11:28 httpd[6952]: Password auth succeeded for 'admin'
> from
> >> >> > c-98-226-167-23.hsd1.il.comcast.net
> >> >> >
> >> >> > This is from an airrouter with a strong password.. we just went
> >> >> > through
> >> >> > a
> >> >> > password change too
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> > --
> >> >> > If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your
> >> >> > team
> >> >> > as
> >> >> > part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > --
> >> > If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your
> team
> >> > as
> >> > part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team
> as
> > part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.
>



-- 
If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team as
part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.

Re: [AFMUG] does this mean the passwords compromised?

[That One Guy /sarcasm]

12 with the order of the characters, but kaspersky also says I can drive
44k miles in my ferrari in that time, which is patently false because A. I
dont have a ferrari, and B Im drunk 6-8 hours a day and not allowed to
drive when drinking

On Tue, Jul 12, 2016 at 3:40 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:

> Kaspersky says can be bruteforced in 2 days.
> https://password.kaspersky.com/
>
> *From:* That One Guy /sarcasm 
> *Sent:* Tuesday, July 12, 2016 2:39 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] does this mean the passwords compromised?
>
> Maybe the boss sold us to comcast and just doesnt have the heart to tell me
>
> On Tue, Jul 12, 2016 at 3:37 PM, Josh Reynolds 
> wrote:
>
>> Are you sure that isn't YOUR login?
>>
>> On Tue, Jul 12, 2016 at 3:35 PM, That One Guy /sarcasm
>>  wrote:
>> > limited to 8 characters and installer memorable so... 4 uppercase, 2
>> > lowercase one numeral, one symbol
>> >
>> > https://www.grc.com/haystack.htm said online crack@1k/second 2.13k
>> centuries
>> >
>> > I expected more than two guesses
>> >
>> > On Tue, Jul 12, 2016 at 3:28 PM, Josh Reynolds 
>> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> That's what it looks like, yes.
>> >>
>> >> Also, define "strong password"
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> On Tue, Jul 12, 2016 at 3:23 PM, That One Guy /sarcasm
>> >>  wrote:
>> >> > Jul 12 12:11:05 httpd[6948]: Bad password attempt for 'admin' from
>> >> > c-98-226-167-23.hsd1.il.comcast.net
>> >> > Jul 12 12:11:28 httpd[6952]: Password auth succeeded for 'admin' from
>> >> > c-98-226-167-23.hsd1.il.comcast.net
>> >> >
>> >> > This is from an airrouter with a strong password.. we just went
>> through
>> >> > a
>> >> > password change too
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > --
>> >> > If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your
>> team
>> >> > as
>> >> > part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > --
>> > If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your
>> team as
>> > part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.
>>
>
>
>
> --
> If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team
> as part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.
>



-- 
If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team as
part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.

Re: [AFMUG] does this mean the passwords compromised?

[Josh Reynolds]

Is it possible there's a tech on comcast that came from that IP?

Another question: Why are you not blocking ports 21/22/53/80/123/443
inbound to your network?

On Tue, Jul 12, 2016 at 3:39 PM, That One Guy /sarcasm
 wrote:
> Maybe the boss sold us to comcast and just doesnt have the heart to tell me
>
> On Tue, Jul 12, 2016 at 3:37 PM, Josh Reynolds  wrote:
>>
>> Are you sure that isn't YOUR login?
>>
>> On Tue, Jul 12, 2016 at 3:35 PM, That One Guy /sarcasm
>>
>>  wrote:
>> > limited to 8 characters and installer memorable so... 4 uppercase, 2
>> > lowercase one numeral, one symbol
>> >
>> > https://www.grc.com/haystack.htm said online crack@1k/second 2.13k
>> > centuries
>> >
>> > I expected more than two guesses
>> >
>> > On Tue, Jul 12, 2016 at 3:28 PM, Josh Reynolds 
>> > wrote:
>> >>
>> >> That's what it looks like, yes.
>> >>
>> >> Also, define "strong password"
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> On Tue, Jul 12, 2016 at 3:23 PM, That One Guy /sarcasm
>> >>  wrote:
>> >> > Jul 12 12:11:05 httpd[6948]: Bad password attempt for 'admin' from
>> >> > c-98-226-167-23.hsd1.il.comcast.net
>> >> > Jul 12 12:11:28 httpd[6952]: Password auth succeeded for 'admin' from
>> >> > c-98-226-167-23.hsd1.il.comcast.net
>> >> >
>> >> > This is from an airrouter with a strong password.. we just went
>> >> > through
>> >> > a
>> >> > password change too
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > --
>> >> > If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your
>> >> > team
>> >> > as
>> >> > part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > --
>> > If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team
>> > as
>> > part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.
>
>
>
>
> --
> If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team as
> part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.

Re: [AFMUG] does this mean the passwords compromised?

[Chuck McCown]

Kaspersky says can be bruteforced in 2 days. 
https://password.kaspersky.com/ 

From: That One Guy /sarcasm 
Sent: Tuesday, July 12, 2016 2:39 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] does this mean the passwords compromised?

Maybe the boss sold us to comcast and just doesnt have the heart to tell me

On Tue, Jul 12, 2016 at 3:37 PM, Josh Reynolds  wrote:

  Are you sure that isn't YOUR login?

  On Tue, Jul 12, 2016 at 3:35 PM, That One Guy /sarcasm
   wrote:
  > limited to 8 characters and installer memorable so... 4 uppercase, 2
  > lowercase one numeral, one symbol
  >
  > https://www.grc.com/haystack.htm said online crack@1k/second 2.13k centuries
  >
  > I expected more than two guesses
  >
  > On Tue, Jul 12, 2016 at 3:28 PM, Josh Reynolds  wrote:
  >>

  >> That's what it looks like, yes.
  >>
  >> Also, define "strong password"
  >>
  >>
  >>
  >> On Tue, Jul 12, 2016 at 3:23 PM, That One Guy /sarcasm
  >>  wrote:
  >> > Jul 12 12:11:05 httpd[6948]: Bad password attempt for 'admin' from
  >> > c-98-226-167-23.hsd1.il.comcast.net
  >> > Jul 12 12:11:28 httpd[6952]: Password auth succeeded for 'admin' from
  >> > c-98-226-167-23.hsd1.il.comcast.net
  >> >
  >> > This is from an airrouter with a strong password.. we just went through
  >> > a
  >> > password change too
  >> >
  >> >
  >> > --
  >> > If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team
  >> > as
  >> > part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.
  >
  >
  >
  >
  > --
  > If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team as
  > part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.





-- 

If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team as 
part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.

Re: [AFMUG] does this mean the passwords compromised?

[That One Guy /sarcasm]

Maybe the boss sold us to comcast and just doesnt have the heart to tell me

On Tue, Jul 12, 2016 at 3:37 PM, Josh Reynolds  wrote:

> Are you sure that isn't YOUR login?
>
> On Tue, Jul 12, 2016 at 3:35 PM, That One Guy /sarcasm
>  wrote:
> > limited to 8 characters and installer memorable so... 4 uppercase, 2
> > lowercase one numeral, one symbol
> >
> > https://www.grc.com/haystack.htm said online crack@1k/second 2.13k
> centuries
> >
> > I expected more than two guesses
> >
> > On Tue, Jul 12, 2016 at 3:28 PM, Josh Reynolds 
> wrote:
> >>
> >> That's what it looks like, yes.
> >>
> >> Also, define "strong password"
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> On Tue, Jul 12, 2016 at 3:23 PM, That One Guy /sarcasm
> >>  wrote:
> >> > Jul 12 12:11:05 httpd[6948]: Bad password attempt for 'admin' from
> >> > c-98-226-167-23.hsd1.il.comcast.net
> >> > Jul 12 12:11:28 httpd[6952]: Password auth succeeded for 'admin' from
> >> > c-98-226-167-23.hsd1.il.comcast.net
> >> >
> >> > This is from an airrouter with a strong password.. we just went
> through
> >> > a
> >> > password change too
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > --
> >> > If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your
> team
> >> > as
> >> > part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team
> as
> > part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.
>



-- 
If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team as
part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.

Re: [AFMUG] does this mean the passwords compromised?

[Josh Reynolds]

Are you sure that isn't YOUR login?

On Tue, Jul 12, 2016 at 3:35 PM, That One Guy /sarcasm
 wrote:
> limited to 8 characters and installer memorable so... 4 uppercase, 2
> lowercase one numeral, one symbol
>
> https://www.grc.com/haystack.htm said online crack@1k/second 2.13k centuries
>
> I expected more than two guesses
>
> On Tue, Jul 12, 2016 at 3:28 PM, Josh Reynolds  wrote:
>>
>> That's what it looks like, yes.
>>
>> Also, define "strong password"
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Jul 12, 2016 at 3:23 PM, That One Guy /sarcasm
>>  wrote:
>> > Jul 12 12:11:05 httpd[6948]: Bad password attempt for 'admin' from
>> > c-98-226-167-23.hsd1.il.comcast.net
>> > Jul 12 12:11:28 httpd[6952]: Password auth succeeded for 'admin' from
>> > c-98-226-167-23.hsd1.il.comcast.net
>> >
>> > This is from an airrouter with a strong password.. we just went through
>> > a
>> > password change too
>> >
>> >
>> > --
>> > If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team
>> > as
>> > part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.
>
>
>
>
> --
> If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team as
> part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.

Re: [AFMUG] does this mean the passwords compromised?

[That One Guy /sarcasm]

limited to 8 characters and installer memorable so... 4 uppercase, 2
lowercase one numeral, one symbol

https://www.grc.com/haystack.htm said online crack@1k/second 2.13k centuries

I expected more than two guesses

On Tue, Jul 12, 2016 at 3:28 PM, Josh Reynolds  wrote:

> That's what it looks like, yes.
>
> Also, define "strong password"
>
>
>
> On Tue, Jul 12, 2016 at 3:23 PM, That One Guy /sarcasm
>  wrote:
> > Jul 12 12:11:05 httpd[6948]: Bad password attempt for 'admin' from
> > c-98-226-167-23.hsd1.il.comcast.net
> > Jul 12 12:11:28 httpd[6952]: Password auth succeeded for 'admin' from
> > c-98-226-167-23.hsd1.il.comcast.net
> >
> > This is from an airrouter with a strong password.. we just went through a
> > password change too
> >
> >
> > --
> > If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team
> as
> > part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.
>



-- 
If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team as
part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.

Re: [AFMUG] does this mean the passwords compromised?

[Josh Reynolds]

That's what it looks like, yes.

Also, define "strong password"



On Tue, Jul 12, 2016 at 3:23 PM, That One Guy /sarcasm
 wrote:
> Jul 12 12:11:05 httpd[6948]: Bad password attempt for 'admin' from
> c-98-226-167-23.hsd1.il.comcast.net
> Jul 12 12:11:28 httpd[6952]: Password auth succeeded for 'admin' from
> c-98-226-167-23.hsd1.il.comcast.net
>
> This is from an airrouter with a strong password.. we just went through a
> password change too
>
>
> --
> If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team as
> part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.

[AFMUG] does this mean the passwords compromised?

[That One Guy /sarcasm]

Jul 12 12:11:05 httpd[6948]: Bad password attempt for 'admin' from
c-98-226-167-23.hsd1.il.comcast.net
Jul 12 12:11:28 httpd[6952]: Password auth succeeded for 'admin' from
c-98-226-167-23.hsd1.il.comcast.net

This is from an airrouter with a strong password.. we just went
through a password change too


-- 
If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team as
part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.

Re: [AFMUG] old laptops

[David]

Heck Yea!
Hold My beer and watch this:)


On 07/12/2016 02:58 PM, Robert Andrews wrote:

With a 30-30?

On 07/12/2016 11:57 AM, Glen Waldrop wrote:

Beat me to it

- Original Message -
*From:* Josh Luthman 
*To:* af@afmug.com 
*Sent:* Tuesday, July 12, 2016 1:55 PM
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] old laptops

That's why you drill a few 1/4" holes.


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Tue, Jul 12, 2016 at 2:26 PM, Chuck McCown mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com>> wrote:

My oldest son works with the cyber crimes law enforcement folks.
He claims the FBI can still get good stuff from a disk that has
been hammered.
*From:* Bruce Robertson 
*Sent:* Tuesday, July 12, 2016 12:24 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com 
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] old laptops
My technique for destroying old disks is to take them out of the
laptop and then pound them a few times with a sledgehammer.
Seems to do the trick.

On 07/12/2016 10:45 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote:

486 with WinME ... face it, they’re e-waste.
Find an electronics recycler that will guarantee they’ll wipe
or destroy the disks and won’t charge to take them off your 
hands.

If they work and have an Ethernet port and maybe a serial
port, keep at least one of them around for when you need to
program equipment. And if they have a diskette drive and
CD/DVD drive, maybe keep one around in case you need to read
one of those.  New “ultrabooks” tend to assume everything is
WiFi and stored in the cloud.
*From:* Simon Westlake 
*Sent:* Tuesday, July 12, 2016 11:57 AM
*To:* af@afmug.com 
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] old laptops
If they are that old, I doubt they have too much value for
charities. You'd probably be lucky to give them away, I have a
few that aren't even as old as that, and I haven't been able
to find anyone that wants them.

I would just take them to Goodwill if you don't want them to
go to waste, putting the OS back on them would probably help
most people.

On 7/12/2016 11:49 AM, Chuck McCown wrote:

Some of them have Windows ME on them 486 machines.
*From:* Bruce Robertson 
*Sent:* Tuesday, July 12, 2016 10:48 AM
*To:* af@afmug.com 
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] old laptops
Chuck has 'em, not me!

On 07/12/2016 09:44 AM, Tim Reichhart wrote:

Bruce
what kind of laptops you got? I am always looking for
laptops for my wisp.

Tim

 


-Original Message-
From: "Glen Waldrop"
<gwl...@cngwireless.net
>
To: af@afmug.com 
Date: 07/12/16 12:40 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] old laptops

If you did I'd wipe and reload.

Anyone going to a thrift store for a computer is either
poor and likely can't do anything with it if there is a
problem or possibly a techie, they'll wipe and reload
regardless.

- Original Message -
*From:* Chuck McCown 
*To:* af@afmug.com

*Sent:* Tuesday, July 12, 2016 11:38 AM
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] old laptops
I am wondering if they have much value for
charities.  I suppose thrift stores sell them.
Should I leave the OS on them?
*From:* Bruce Robertson 
*Sent:* Tuesday, July 12, 2016 10:36 AM
*To:* af@afmug.com

*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] old laptops
Wipe the disks and donate them to a charity.

On 07/12/2016 09:34 AM, Chuck McCown wrote:

What should I do with a tower of old laptops
stacking up at my house.� I hate to toss them.�
I am sure most of them can be made to work, perhaps
with a new battery.�






--
Simon Westlake
Skype: Simon_Sonar
Email:simon@sonar.software 
Phone:(702) 447-1247 
---
Sonar Software Inc
The next generation of ISP billing and OSS
https://sonar.software
!DSPAM

Re: [AFMUG] old laptops

[Ty Featherling]

Spall!



-Ty

On Tue, Jul 12, 2016 at 3:08 PM, Cameron Crum  wrote:

> When you said drill holes, I thought you meant with a decent caliber
> rifle. Something like out of The Jackal
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pyXdB_AYiDs
>
> On Tue, Jul 12, 2016 at 3:00 PM, Robert Andrews 
> wrote:
>
>> I used to work with a company that a contractor put a thermite charge on
>> top of the disc drives below the graphics system..   Purpose is left to
>> your imagination...
>>
>> On 07/12/2016 11:59 AM, Chuck McCown wrote:
>>
>>> Thermite
>>>
>>> -Original Message- From: Seth Mattinen Sent: Tuesday, July 12,
>>> 2016 12:58 PM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] old laptops
>>>
>>> On 7/12/16 11:55, Josh Luthman wrote:
>>>
 That's why you drill a few 1/4" holes.

>>>
>>>
>>> A Hilti gun requires less effort.
>>>
>>> ~Seth
>>>
>>>
>

Re: [AFMUG] old laptops

[Cameron Crum]

When you said drill holes, I thought you meant with a decent caliber rifle.
Something like out of The Jackal

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pyXdB_AYiDs

On Tue, Jul 12, 2016 at 3:00 PM, Robert Andrews 
wrote:

> I used to work with a company that a contractor put a thermite charge on
> top of the disc drives below the graphics system..   Purpose is left to
> your imagination...
>
> On 07/12/2016 11:59 AM, Chuck McCown wrote:
>
>> Thermite
>>
>> -Original Message- From: Seth Mattinen Sent: Tuesday, July 12,
>> 2016 12:58 PM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] old laptops
>>
>> On 7/12/16 11:55, Josh Luthman wrote:
>>
>>> That's why you drill a few 1/4" holes.
>>>
>>
>>
>> A Hilti gun requires less effort.
>>
>> ~Seth
>>
>>

Re: [AFMUG] old laptops

[Robert Andrews]

I used to work with a company that a contractor put a thermite charge on 
top of the disc drives below the graphics system..   Purpose is left to 
your imagination...


On 07/12/2016 11:59 AM, Chuck McCown wrote:

Thermite

-Original Message- From: Seth Mattinen Sent: Tuesday, July 12,
2016 12:58 PM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] old laptops
On 7/12/16 11:55, Josh Luthman wrote:

That's why you drill a few 1/4" holes.



A Hilti gun requires less effort.

~Seth

Re: [AFMUG] old laptops

[Robert Andrews]

With a 30-30?

On 07/12/2016 11:57 AM, Glen Waldrop wrote:

Beat me to it

- Original Message -
*From:* Josh Luthman 
*To:* af@afmug.com 
*Sent:* Tuesday, July 12, 2016 1:55 PM
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] old laptops

That's why you drill a few 1/4" holes.


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Tue, Jul 12, 2016 at 2:26 PM, Chuck McCown mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com>> wrote:

My oldest son works with the cyber crimes law enforcement folks.
He claims the FBI can still get good stuff from a disk that has
been hammered.
*From:* Bruce Robertson 
*Sent:* Tuesday, July 12, 2016 12:24 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com 
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] old laptops
My technique for destroying old disks is to take them out of the
laptop and then pound them a few times with a sledgehammer.
Seems to do the trick.

On 07/12/2016 10:45 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote:

486 with WinME ... face it, they’re e-waste.
Find an electronics recycler that will guarantee they’ll wipe
or destroy the disks and won’t charge to take them off your hands.
If they work and have an Ethernet port and maybe a serial
port, keep at least one of them around for when you need to
program equipment. And if they have a diskette drive and
CD/DVD drive, maybe keep one around in case you need to read
one of those.  New “ultrabooks” tend to assume everything is
WiFi and stored in the cloud.
*From:* Simon Westlake 
*Sent:* Tuesday, July 12, 2016 11:57 AM
*To:* af@afmug.com 
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] old laptops
If they are that old, I doubt they have too much value for
charities. You'd probably be lucky to give them away, I have a
few that aren't even as old as that, and I haven't been able
to find anyone that wants them.

I would just take them to Goodwill if you don't want them to
go to waste, putting the OS back on them would probably help
most people.

On 7/12/2016 11:49 AM, Chuck McCown wrote:

Some of them have Windows ME on them 486 machines.
*From:* Bruce Robertson 
*Sent:* Tuesday, July 12, 2016 10:48 AM
*To:* af@afmug.com 
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] old laptops
Chuck has 'em, not me!

On 07/12/2016 09:44 AM, Tim Reichhart wrote:

Bruce
what kind of laptops you got? I am always looking for
laptops for my wisp.

Tim



-Original Message-
From: "Glen Waldrop"
<gwl...@cngwireless.net
>
To: af@afmug.com 
Date: 07/12/16 12:40 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] old laptops

If you did I'd wipe and reload.

Anyone going to a thrift store for a computer is either
poor and likely can't do anything with it if there is a
problem or possibly a techie, they'll wipe and reload
regardless.

- Original Message -
*From:* Chuck McCown 
*To:* af@afmug.com

*Sent:* Tuesday, July 12, 2016 11:38 AM
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] old laptops
I am wondering if they have much value for
charities.  I suppose thrift stores sell them.
Should I leave the OS on them?
*From:* Bruce Robertson 
*Sent:* Tuesday, July 12, 2016 10:36 AM
*To:* af@afmug.com

*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] old laptops
Wipe the disks and donate them to a charity.

On 07/12/2016 09:34 AM, Chuck McCown wrote:

What should I do with a tower of old laptops
stacking up at my house.� I hate to toss them.�
I am sure most of them can be made to work, perhaps
with a new battery.�






--
Simon Westlake
Skype: Simon_Sonar
Email:simon@sonar.software 
Phone:(702) 447-1247 
---
Sonar Software Inc
The next generation of ISP billing and OSS
https://sonar.software
!DSPAM:2,57852cb2178511881538290!

Re: [AFMUG] OT Robot explosive

[Ken Hohhof]

Nice software!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VKF3iJQBWuo


From: Josh Luthman 
Sent: Tuesday, July 12, 2016 2:33 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Robot explosive

Johnny 5 isn't alive =(


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Tue, Jul 12, 2016 at 3:32 PM, Jaime Solorza  
wrote:

  really?


  Jaime Solorza 
  Wireless Systems Architect
  915-861-1390

  On Tue, Jul 12, 2016 at 11:57 AM, Glen Waldrop  wrote:

hahaha

Awesome

  - Original Message - 
  From: That One Guy /sarcasm 
  To: af@afmug.com 
  Sent: Tuesday, July 12, 2016 9:55 AM
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Robot explosive




  On Tue, Jul 12, 2016 at 9:11 AM, Chuck McCown  wrote:

Interesting article:

http://ktla.com/2016/07/12/how-police-used-robot-to-take-out-dallas-sniper-in-unprecedented-way/




  -- 

  If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team 
as part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.

Re: [AFMUG] old laptops

[Bill Prince]

Not what I heard. Those old Tranzeos deserved to be shot. Sometimes more 
than once or twice.



bp


On 7/12/2016 12:35 PM, Jay Weekley wrote:
Before I attended my first Animal Farm I read about the antenna 
shootout they had.  I eventually found out it was for testing 
antennas, not shooting them.


Bill Prince wrote:

Or target practice at the next AF.


bp


On 7/12/2016 11:58 AM, Seth Mattinen wrote:

On 7/12/16 11:55, Josh Luthman wrote:

That's why you drill a few 1/4" holes.



A Hilti gun requires less effort.

~Seth

Re: [AFMUG] old laptops

[Jay Weekley]

Before I attended my first Animal Farm I read about the antenna shootout 
they had.  I eventually found out it was for testing antennas, not 
shooting them.


Bill Prince wrote:

Or target practice at the next AF.


bp


On 7/12/2016 11:58 AM, Seth Mattinen wrote:

On 7/12/16 11:55, Josh Luthman wrote:

That's why you drill a few 1/4" holes.



A Hilti gun requires less effort.

~Seth

Re: [AFMUG] OT Robot explosive

[Josh Luthman]

Johnny 5 isn't alive =(


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Tue, Jul 12, 2016 at 3:32 PM, Jaime Solorza 
wrote:

> really?
>
> Jaime Solorza
> Wireless Systems Architect
> 915-861-1390
>
> On Tue, Jul 12, 2016 at 11:57 AM, Glen Waldrop 
> wrote:
>
>> hahaha
>>
>> Awesome
>>
>>
>> - Original Message -
>> *From:* That One Guy /sarcasm 
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>> *Sent:* Tuesday, July 12, 2016 9:55 AM
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Robot explosive
>>
>> [image: Inline image 1]
>>
>> On Tue, Jul 12, 2016 at 9:11 AM, Chuck McCown  wrote:
>>
>>> Interesting article:
>>>
>>> http://ktla.com/2016/07/12/how-police-used-robot-to-take-out-dallas-sniper-in-unprecedented-way/
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team
>> as part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.
>>
>>
>

Re: [AFMUG] OT Robot explosive

[Jaime Solorza]

really?

Jaime Solorza
Wireless Systems Architect
915-861-1390

On Tue, Jul 12, 2016 at 11:57 AM, Glen Waldrop 
wrote:

> hahaha
>
> Awesome
>
>
> - Original Message -
> *From:* That One Guy /sarcasm 
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Sent:* Tuesday, July 12, 2016 9:55 AM
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Robot explosive
>
> [image: Inline image 1]
>
> On Tue, Jul 12, 2016 at 9:11 AM, Chuck McCown  wrote:
>
>> Interesting article:
>>
>> http://ktla.com/2016/07/12/how-police-used-robot-to-take-out-dallas-sniper-in-unprecedented-way/
>>
>
>
>
> --
> If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team
> as part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] old laptops

[Ken Hohhof]

Mythbusters pancaked a car with a steel plate and 1000 lbs of ANFO.  The 
small scale test used something comparable to a HDD.  It was pretty flat 
afterwards.



-Original Message- 
From: Chuck McCown

Sent: Tuesday, July 12, 2016 1:59 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] old laptops

Thermite

-Original Message- 
From: Seth Mattinen

Sent: Tuesday, July 12, 2016 12:58 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] old laptops

On 7/12/16 11:55, Josh Luthman wrote:

That's why you drill a few 1/4" holes.



A Hilti gun requires less effort.

~Seth 

Re: [AFMUG] old laptops

[Bill Prince]

Or target practice at the next AF.


bp


On 7/12/2016 11:58 AM, Seth Mattinen wrote:

On 7/12/16 11:55, Josh Luthman wrote:

That's why you drill a few 1/4" holes.



A Hilti gun requires less effort.

~Seth

Re: [AFMUG] old laptops

[Adam Moffett]

I've been told by employees at a Lockheed Martin facility that they have 
a shredder for unauthorized electronics.  I can't imagine them 
recovering data from a pile of shredded metal.


...but yeah on the original question I would recycle them.


-- Original Message --
From: "Jeremy" 
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: 7/12/2016 2:56:05 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] old laptops

I pull the hard drives, take the magnets out for the fridge, smash the 
discs, and give the laptops to Best Buy for recycling.  Just dropped 
off a Sony Vaio today!


On Tue, Jul 12, 2016 at 12:26 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:
My oldest son works with the cyber crimes law enforcement folks.  He 
claims the FBI can still get good stuff from a disk that has been 
hammered.


From:Bruce Robertson
Sent: Tuesday, July 12, 2016 12:24 PM
To:af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] old laptops

My technique for destroying old disks is to take them out of the 
laptop and then pound them a few times with a sledgehammer.  Seems to 
do the trick.


On 07/12/2016 10:45 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote:

486 with WinME ... face it, they’re e-waste.

Find an electronics recycler that will guarantee they’ll wipe or 
destroy the disks and won’t charge to take them off your hands.


If they work and have an Ethernet port and maybe a serial port, keep 
at least one of them around for when you need to program equipment.  
And if they have a diskette drive and CD/DVD drive, maybe keep one 
around in case you need to read one of those.  New “ultrabooks” tend 
to assume everything is WiFi and stored in the cloud.



From:Simon Westlake
Sent: Tuesday, July 12, 2016 11:57 AM
To:af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] old laptops

If they are that old, I doubt they have too much value for charities. 
You'd probably be lucky to give them away, I have a few that aren't 
even as old as that, and I haven't been able to find anyone that 
wants them.


I would just take them to Goodwill if you don't want them to go to 
waste, putting the OS back on them would probably help most people.


On 7/12/2016 11:49 AM, Chuck McCown wrote:

Some of them have Windows ME on them 486 machines.

From:Bruce Robertson
Sent: Tuesday, July 12, 2016 10:48 AM
To:af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] old laptops

Chuck has 'em, not me!

On 07/12/2016 09:44 AM, Tim Reichhart wrote:

Bruce
what kind of laptops you got? I am always looking for laptops for 
my wisp.


Tim



-Original Message-
From: "Glen Waldrop" 
To: af@afmug.com
Date: 07/12/16 12:40 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] old laptops

If you did I'd wipe and reload.

Anyone going to a thrift store for a computer is either poor and 
likely can't do anything with it if there is a problem or possibly 
a techie, they'll wipe and reload regardless.




- Original Message -
 From:Chuck McCown
 To:af@afmug.com
 Sent: Tuesday, July 12, 2016 11:38 AM
 Subject: Re: [AFMUG] old laptops


I am wondering if they have much value for charities.  I suppose 
thrift stores sell them.

Should I leave the OS on them?




 From:Bruce Robertson
Sent: Tuesday, July 12, 2016 10:36 AM
To:af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] old laptops




Wipe the disks and donate them to a charity.

On 07/12/2016 09:34 AM, Chuck McCown wrote:

What should I do with a tower of old laptops stacking up at my 
house.� I hate to toss them.� I am sure most of them can be 
made to work, perhaps with a new battery.�










-- Simon Westlake Skype: Simon_Sonar Email: simon@sonar.software 
Phone: (702) 447-1247 --- Sonar Software Inc 
The next generation of ISP billing and OSS https://sonar.software

!DSPAM:2,57852cb2178511881538290!

Re: [AFMUG] old laptops

[Chuck McCown]

Thermite

-Original Message- 
From: Seth Mattinen 
Sent: Tuesday, July 12, 2016 12:58 PM 
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] old laptops 


On 7/12/16 11:55, Josh Luthman wrote:

That's why you drill a few 1/4" holes.



A Hilti gun requires less effort.

~Seth

Re: [AFMUG] old laptops

[Seth Mattinen]

On 7/12/16 11:55, Josh Luthman wrote:

That's why you drill a few 1/4" holes.



A Hilti gun requires less effort.

~Seth

Re: [AFMUG] old laptops

[Glen Waldrop]

Beat me to it

  - Original Message - 
  From: Josh Luthman 
  To: af@afmug.com 
  Sent: Tuesday, July 12, 2016 1:55 PM
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] old laptops


  That's why you drill a few 1/4" holes.




  Josh Luthman
  Office: 937-552-2340
  Direct: 937-552-2343
  1100 Wayne St
  Suite 1337
  Troy, OH 45373


  On Tue, Jul 12, 2016 at 2:26 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:

My oldest son works with the cyber crimes law enforcement folks.  He claims 
the FBI can still get good stuff from a disk that has been hammered.  

From: Bruce Robertson 
Sent: Tuesday, July 12, 2016 12:24 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] old laptops

My technique for destroying old disks is to take them out of the laptop and 
then pound them a few times with a sledgehammer.  Seems to do the trick.


On 07/12/2016 10:45 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote:

  486 with WinME ... face it, they’re e-waste.

  Find an electronics recycler that will guarantee they’ll wipe or destroy 
the disks and won’t charge to take them off your hands.

  If they work and have an Ethernet port and maybe a serial port, keep at 
least one of them around for when you need to program equipment.  And if they 
have a diskette drive and CD/DVD drive, maybe keep one around in case you need 
to read one of those.  New “ultrabooks” tend to assume everything is WiFi and 
stored in the cloud.


  From: Simon Westlake 
  Sent: Tuesday, July 12, 2016 11:57 AM
  To: af@afmug.com 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] old laptops

  If they are that old, I doubt they have too much value for charities. 
You'd probably be lucky to give them away, I have a few that aren't even as old 
as that, and I haven't been able to find anyone that wants them.

  I would just take them to Goodwill if you don't want them to go to waste, 
putting the OS back on them would probably help most people. 


  On 7/12/2016 11:49 AM, Chuck McCown wrote:

Some of them have Windows ME on them 486 machines.  

From: Bruce Robertson 
Sent: Tuesday, July 12, 2016 10:48 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] old laptops

Chuck has 'em, not me!


On 07/12/2016 09:44 AM, Tim Reichhart wrote:

  Bruce
  what kind of laptops you got? I am always looking for laptops for my 
wisp.

  Tim




-Original Message-
From: "Glen Waldrop" 
To: af@afmug.com
Date: 07/12/16 12:40 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] old laptops


If you did I'd wipe and reload.

Anyone going to a thrift store for a computer is either poor and 
likely can't do anything with it if there is a problem or possibly a techie, 
they'll wipe and reload regardless.


  - Original Message -
   From: Chuck McCown 
   To: af@afmug.com 
   Sent: Tuesday, July 12, 2016 11:38 AM
   Subject: Re: [AFMUG] old laptops


  I am wondering if they have much value for charities.  I suppose 
thrift stores sell them. 
  Should I leave the OS on them?




   From: Bruce Robertson 
  Sent: Tuesday, July 12, 2016 10:36 AM
  To: af@afmug.com 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] old laptops
   
   

   Wipe the disks and donate them to a charity.


  On 07/12/2016 09:34 AM, Chuck McCown wrote:
   
What should I do with a tower of old laptops stacking up at my 
house.� I hate to toss them.� I am sure most of them can be made to work, 
perhaps with a new battery.�


   




-- 
Simon Westlake
Skype: Simon_Sonar
Email: simon@sonar.software
Phone: (702) 447-1247
---
Sonar Software Inc
The next generation of ISP billing and OSS
https://sonar.software!DSPAM:2,57852cb2178511881538290! 

Re: [AFMUG] OT Robot explosive

[Glen Waldrop]

hahaha

Awesome

  - Original Message - 
  From: That One Guy /sarcasm 
  To: af@afmug.com 
  Sent: Tuesday, July 12, 2016 9:55 AM
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Robot explosive






  On Tue, Jul 12, 2016 at 9:11 AM, Chuck McCown  wrote:

Interesting article:

http://ktla.com/2016/07/12/how-police-used-robot-to-take-out-dallas-sniper-in-unprecedented-way/





  -- 

  If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team as 
part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.

Re: [AFMUG] old laptops

[Josh Luthman]

That's why you drill a few 1/4" holes.


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Tue, Jul 12, 2016 at 2:26 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:

> My oldest son works with the cyber crimes law enforcement folks.  He
> claims the FBI can still get good stuff from a disk that has been
> hammered.
>
> *From:* Bruce Robertson 
> *Sent:* Tuesday, July 12, 2016 12:24 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] old laptops
>
> My technique for destroying old disks is to take them out of the laptop
> and then pound them a few times with a sledgehammer.  Seems to do the trick.
>
> On 07/12/2016 10:45 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
>
> 486 with WinME ... face it, they’re e-waste.
>
> Find an electronics recycler that will guarantee they’ll wipe or destroy
> the disks and won’t charge to take them off your hands.
>
> If they work and have an Ethernet port and maybe a serial port, keep at
> least one of them around for when you need to program equipment.  And if
> they have a diskette drive and CD/DVD drive, maybe keep one around in case
> you need to read one of those.  New “ultrabooks” tend to assume everything
> is WiFi and stored in the cloud.
>
>
> *From:* Simon Westlake 
> *Sent:* Tuesday, July 12, 2016 11:57 AM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] old laptops
>
> If they are that old, I doubt they have too much value for charities.
> You'd probably be lucky to give them away, I have a few that aren't even as
> old as that, and I haven't been able to find anyone that wants them.
>
> I would just take them to Goodwill if you don't want them to go to waste,
> putting the OS back on them would probably help most people.
>
> On 7/12/2016 11:49 AM, Chuck McCown wrote:
>
> Some of them have Windows ME on them 486 machines.
>
> *From:* Bruce Robertson 
> *Sent:* Tuesday, July 12, 2016 10:48 AM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] old laptops
>
> Chuck has 'em, not me!
>
> On 07/12/2016 09:44 AM, Tim Reichhart wrote:
>
> Bruce
> what kind of laptops you got? I am always looking for laptops for my wisp.
>
> Tim
>
> --
> -Original Message-
> From: "Glen Waldrop" < gwl...@cngwireless.net>
> To: af@afmug.com
> Date: 07/12/16 12:40 PM
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] old laptops
>
> If you did I'd wipe and reload.
>
> Anyone going to a thrift store for a computer is either poor and likely
> can't do anything with it if there is a problem or possibly a techie,
> they'll wipe and reload regardless.
>
>
>
> - Original Message -
>  *From:* Chuck McCown 
>  *To:* af@afmug.com
>  *Sent:* Tuesday, July 12, 2016 11:38 AM
>  *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] old laptops
>
>
> I am wondering if they have much value for charities.  I suppose thrift
> stores sell them.
> Should I leave the OS on them?
>
>
>
>
>  *From:* Bruce Robertson 
> *Sent:* Tuesday, July 12, 2016 10:36 AM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] old laptops
>
>
>
>
> Wipe the disks and donate them to a charity.
>
> On 07/12/2016 09:34 AM, Chuck McCown wrote:
>
>
> What should I do with a tower of old laptops stacking up at my house.� I
> hate to toss them.� I am sure most of them can be made to work, perhaps
> with a new battery.�
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> Simon Westlake
> Skype: Simon_Sonar
> Email: simon@sonar.software
> Phone: (702) 447-1247
> ---
> Sonar Software Inc
> The next generation of ISP billing and OSShttps://sonar.software
>
> !DSPAM:2,57852cb2178511881538290!
>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] old laptops

[Jeremy]

I pull the hard drives, take the magnets out for the fridge, smash the
discs, and give the laptops to Best Buy for recycling.  Just dropped off a
Sony Vaio today!

On Tue, Jul 12, 2016 at 12:26 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:

> My oldest son works with the cyber crimes law enforcement folks.  He
> claims the FBI can still get good stuff from a disk that has been
> hammered.
>
> *From:* Bruce Robertson 
> *Sent:* Tuesday, July 12, 2016 12:24 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] old laptops
>
> My technique for destroying old disks is to take them out of the laptop
> and then pound them a few times with a sledgehammer.  Seems to do the trick.
>
> On 07/12/2016 10:45 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
>
> 486 with WinME ... face it, they’re e-waste.
>
> Find an electronics recycler that will guarantee they’ll wipe or destroy
> the disks and won’t charge to take them off your hands.
>
> If they work and have an Ethernet port and maybe a serial port, keep at
> least one of them around for when you need to program equipment.  And if
> they have a diskette drive and CD/DVD drive, maybe keep one around in case
> you need to read one of those.  New “ultrabooks” tend to assume everything
> is WiFi and stored in the cloud.
>
>
> *From:* Simon Westlake 
> *Sent:* Tuesday, July 12, 2016 11:57 AM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] old laptops
>
> If they are that old, I doubt they have too much value for charities.
> You'd probably be lucky to give them away, I have a few that aren't even as
> old as that, and I haven't been able to find anyone that wants them.
>
> I would just take them to Goodwill if you don't want them to go to waste,
> putting the OS back on them would probably help most people.
>
> On 7/12/2016 11:49 AM, Chuck McCown wrote:
>
> Some of them have Windows ME on them 486 machines.
>
> *From:* Bruce Robertson 
> *Sent:* Tuesday, July 12, 2016 10:48 AM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] old laptops
>
> Chuck has 'em, not me!
>
> On 07/12/2016 09:44 AM, Tim Reichhart wrote:
>
> Bruce
> what kind of laptops you got? I am always looking for laptops for my wisp.
>
> Tim
>
> --
> -Original Message-
> From: "Glen Waldrop" < gwl...@cngwireless.net>
> To: af@afmug.com
> Date: 07/12/16 12:40 PM
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] old laptops
>
> If you did I'd wipe and reload.
>
> Anyone going to a thrift store for a computer is either poor and likely
> can't do anything with it if there is a problem or possibly a techie,
> they'll wipe and reload regardless.
>
>
>
> - Original Message -
>  *From:* Chuck McCown 
>  *To:* af@afmug.com
>  *Sent:* Tuesday, July 12, 2016 11:38 AM
>  *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] old laptops
>
>
> I am wondering if they have much value for charities.  I suppose thrift
> stores sell them.
> Should I leave the OS on them?
>
>
>
>
>  *From:* Bruce Robertson 
> *Sent:* Tuesday, July 12, 2016 10:36 AM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] old laptops
>
>
>
>
> Wipe the disks and donate them to a charity.
>
> On 07/12/2016 09:34 AM, Chuck McCown wrote:
>
>
> What should I do with a tower of old laptops stacking up at my house.� I
> hate to toss them.� I am sure most of them can be made to work, perhaps
> with a new battery.�
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> Simon Westlake
> Skype: Simon_Sonar
> Email: simon@sonar.software
> Phone: (702) 447-1247
> ---
> Sonar Software Inc
> The next generation of ISP billing and OSShttps://sonar.software
>
> !DSPAM:2,57852cb2178511881538290!
>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] working with Ameren 900mhz

[Jaime Solorza]

tsk tsk...it will come back and bite you in the butt

Jaime Solorza
Wireless Systems Architect
915-861-1390

On Tue, Jul 12, 2016 at 11:02 AM, George Skorup  wrote:

> We're going to leave all of our 900 APs turned on after ComEd turns up
> their grid, because fuck them. And we're going to add a 900 omni at new
> sites for this purpose.
>
>
> On 7/12/2016 12:53 PM, That One Guy /sarcasm wrote:
>
> Ameren made contact with us (well their subcontractor) regarding two of
> our fsk sites. They have lost communications with something like 250-300
> nodes or whatever.
> I feel bad for these guys, no tools beyond finding interference and asking
> operators to change channels.
> One site we are on 922
> [image: Inline image 1]
> and the other we are on 916
> [image: Inline image 2]
>
> We dont have much option either. I would prefer to just finish dumping
> 900mhz all together, but thats outside my authority.
>
> the only info he can provide is Ameren's meter modules operate at 917.53
> MHz with a bandwidth of +or- 1-3. He did know thats a hard set channel, but
> not sure if thats a 1-3mhz or actually a 2-6mhz channel.
>
> I dont have a problem helping where I can, but as you can see, I dont have
> any spectrum to move to. The second one is on that channel because it was
> the least bad at the CPE sides.
>
> Is there any tweaking on FSK to make it colocate a little better for these
> guys. Its like I told him, it doesnt matter anyway because comed/exelon is
> going to steamroll with their smartgrid here soon anyway, but in the
> meantime id like to minimize each others headaches
>
>
> --
> If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team
> as part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.
>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Larger Not-that-high-res monitors

[Simon Westlake]

The only thing to watch out for with those super cheap 4K TVs is that 
they support 60Hz, some of the older ones were 30Hz which is a 
guaranteed headache for me if I use it as a computer monitor. Refresh 
rate numbers are conspicuously absent on that listing..


On 7/12/2016 12:22 PM, Bill Prince wrote:


Would this work? 49" diagonal, and 3840 x 2160 UHD. $285. Humma humma.

https://www.amazon.com/Avera-49EQX10-49-Ultra-LED/dp/B01FRQGN16/ref=sr_1_1?s=tv&ie=UTF8&qid=1468344057&sr=1-1&keywords=4k+tv+32+inch&refinements=p_n_feature_keywords_three_browse-bin%3A7688788011

bp


On 7/12/2016 7:59 AM, Chuck McCown wrote:
I have a 32” LG TV at one office.  Big enough for browser on the left 
and email on the right.  1080p
Resolution is just fine for my tired eyes.Super cheap.  Plus it 
has a tuner and OTT client inside.

*From:* Lewis Bergman 
*Sent:* Tuesday, July 12, 2016 8:45 AM
*To:* af@afmug.com 
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Larger Not-that-high-res monitors
I had thought about buying 2 32" TV's instead of 4 24" but I was 
concerned about the resolution and having to "blow up" the text big 
enough to see. What does your setup look like Chuck?
I connect to my 65" curved Samsung in my office but I do so 
wirelessly (should have run HDMI when I built my new place. Can't 
believe I forgot that.) and the performance on that setup is pretty 
laggy as you would expect.
On Tue, Jul 12, 2016 at 9:07 AM Ken Hohhof > wrote:


Lots of Hanns-G repair kits for sale, sounds like they have a bulging
capacitor problem.  If you bought a bunch of those monitors (but
no spares),
this may just be the first one to die.

Probably not much demand today for 28 inch monitors with only
1920x1200
resolution, might look for about twice that.


-Original Message-
From: Chuck McCown
Sent: Tuesday, July 12, 2016 8:51 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Larger Not-that-high-res monitors

I buy TVs.

-Original Message-
From: Nate Burke
Sent: Monday, July 11, 2016 9:59 PM
To: Animal Farm
Subject: [AFMUG] Larger Not-that-high-res monitors

One of my desktop Hanns-G 28" 1920x1200 monitors just crapped
out. I was
using it, and the display went all white, and I can't even bring
up the
monitor controls.  I went to look for a replacement and
apparently these
are an odd bird.  The 1920x1200 monitors I'm finding are 26" or less,
and start at $300.  I think I only paid like $250 when I bought these
new back in 2011.  Has something changed with Monitors that
they're all
smaller and more expensive now?






--
Simon Westlake
Skype: Simon_Sonar
Email: simon@sonar.software
Phone: (702) 447-1247
---
Sonar Software Inc
The next generation of ISP billing and OSS
https://sonar.software

Re: [AFMUG] old laptops

[Chuck McCown]

My oldest son works with the cyber crimes law enforcement folks.  He claims the 
FBI can still get good stuff from a disk that has been hammered.  

From: Bruce Robertson 
Sent: Tuesday, July 12, 2016 12:24 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] old laptops

My technique for destroying old disks is to take them out of the laptop and 
then pound them a few times with a sledgehammer.  Seems to do the trick.


On 07/12/2016 10:45 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote:

  486 with WinME ... face it, they’re e-waste.

  Find an electronics recycler that will guarantee they’ll wipe or destroy the 
disks and won’t charge to take them off your hands.

  If they work and have an Ethernet port and maybe a serial port, keep at least 
one of them around for when you need to program equipment.  And if they have a 
diskette drive and CD/DVD drive, maybe keep one around in case you need to read 
one of those.  New “ultrabooks” tend to assume everything is WiFi and stored in 
the cloud.


  From: Simon Westlake 
  Sent: Tuesday, July 12, 2016 11:57 AM
  To: af@afmug.com 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] old laptops

  If they are that old, I doubt they have too much value for charities. You'd 
probably be lucky to give them away, I have a few that aren't even as old as 
that, and I haven't been able to find anyone that wants them.

  I would just take them to Goodwill if you don't want them to go to waste, 
putting the OS back on them would probably help most people. 


  On 7/12/2016 11:49 AM, Chuck McCown wrote:

Some of them have Windows ME on them 486 machines.  

From: Bruce Robertson 
Sent: Tuesday, July 12, 2016 10:48 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] old laptops

Chuck has 'em, not me!


On 07/12/2016 09:44 AM, Tim Reichhart wrote:

  Bruce
  what kind of laptops you got? I am always looking for laptops for my wisp.

  Tim




-Original Message-
From: "Glen Waldrop" 
To: af@afmug.com
Date: 07/12/16 12:40 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] old laptops


If you did I'd wipe and reload.

Anyone going to a thrift store for a computer is either poor and likely 
can't do anything with it if there is a problem or possibly a techie, they'll 
wipe and reload regardless.


  - Original Message -
   From: Chuck McCown 
   To: af@afmug.com 
   Sent: Tuesday, July 12, 2016 11:38 AM
   Subject: Re: [AFMUG] old laptops


  I am wondering if they have much value for charities.  I suppose 
thrift stores sell them. 
  Should I leave the OS on them?




   From: Bruce Robertson 
  Sent: Tuesday, July 12, 2016 10:36 AM
  To: af@afmug.com 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] old laptops
   
   

   Wipe the disks and donate them to a charity.


  On 07/12/2016 09:34 AM, Chuck McCown wrote:
   
What should I do with a tower of old laptops stacking up at my 
house.� I hate to toss them.� I am sure most of them can be made to work, 
perhaps with a new battery.�


   




-- 
Simon Westlake
Skype: Simon_Sonar
Email: simon@sonar.software
Phone: (702) 447-1247
---
Sonar Software Inc
The next generation of ISP billing and OSS
https://sonar.software!DSPAM:2,57852cb2178511881538290! 

Re: [AFMUG] old laptops

[Bruce Robertson]

My technique for destroying old disks is to take them out of the laptop 
and then pound them a few times with a sledgehammer.  Seems to do the trick.


On 07/12/2016 10:45 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote:

486 with WinME ... face it, they’re e-waste.
Find an electronics recycler that will guarantee they’ll wipe or 
destroy the disks and won’t charge to take them off your hands.
If they work and have an Ethernet port and maybe a serial port, keep 
at least one of them around for when you need to program equipment.  
And if they have a diskette drive and CD/DVD drive, maybe keep one 
around in case you need to read one of those.  New “ultrabooks” tend 
to assume everything is WiFi and stored in the cloud.

*From:* Simon Westlake 
*Sent:* Tuesday, July 12, 2016 11:57 AM
*To:* af@afmug.com 
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] old laptops
If they are that old, I doubt they have too much value for charities. 
You'd probably be lucky to give them away, I have a few that aren't 
even as old as that, and I haven't been able to find anyone that wants 
them.


I would just take them to Goodwill if you don't want them to go to 
waste, putting the OS back on them would probably help most people.


On 7/12/2016 11:49 AM, Chuck McCown wrote:

Some of them have Windows ME on them 486 machines.
*From:* Bruce Robertson 
*Sent:* Tuesday, July 12, 2016 10:48 AM
*To:* af@afmug.com 
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] old laptops
Chuck has 'em, not me!

On 07/12/2016 09:44 AM, Tim Reichhart wrote:

Bruce
what kind of laptops you got? I am always looking for laptops for my 
wisp.


Tim


-Original Message-
From: "Glen Waldrop" mailto:gwl...@cngwireless.net>>
To: af@afmug.com 
Date: 07/12/16 12:40 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] old laptops

If you did I'd wipe and reload.

Anyone going to a thrift store for a computer is either poor and
likely can't do anything with it if there is a problem or
possibly a techie, they'll wipe and reload regardless.

- Original Message -
*From:* Chuck McCown 
*To:* af@afmug.com
*Sent:* Tuesday, July 12, 2016 11:38 AM
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] old laptops
I am wondering if they have much value for charities.  I
suppose thrift stores sell them.
Should I leave the OS on them?
*From:* Bruce Robertson 
*Sent:* Tuesday, July 12, 2016 10:36 AM
*To:* af@afmug.com 
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] old laptops
Wipe the disks and donate them to a charity.

On 07/12/2016 09:34 AM, Chuck McCown wrote:

What should I do with a tower of old laptops stacking up at
my house.� I hate to toss them.� I am sure most of them
can be made to work, perhaps with a new battery.�






--
Simon Westlake
Skype: Simon_Sonar
Email:simon@sonar.software
Phone: (702) 447-1247
---
Sonar Software Inc
The next generation of ISP billing and OSS
https://sonar.software
!DSPAM:2,57852cb2178511881538290! 

Re: [AFMUG] working with Ameren 900mhz

[George Skorup]

We're going to leave all of our 900 APs turned on after ComEd turns up 
their grid, because fuck them. And we're going to add a 900 omni at new 
sites for this purpose.


On 7/12/2016 12:53 PM, That One Guy /sarcasm wrote:
Ameren made contact with us (well their subcontractor) regarding two 
of our fsk sites. They have lost communications with something like 
250-300 nodes or whatever.
I feel bad for these guys, no tools beyond finding interference and 
asking operators to change channels.

One site we are on 922
Inline image 1
and the other we are on 916
Inline image 2

We dont have much option either. I would prefer to just finish dumping 
900mhz all together, but thats outside my authority.


the only info he can provide is Ameren's meter modules operate at 
917.53 MHz with a bandwidth of +or- 1-3. He did know thats a hard set 
channel, but not sure if thats a 1-3mhz or actually a 2-6mhz channel.


I dont have a problem helping where I can, but as you can see, I dont 
have any spectrum to move to. The second one is on that channel 
because it was the least bad at the CPE sides.


Is there any tweaking on FSK to make it colocate a little better for 
these guys. Its like I told him, it doesnt matter anyway because 
comed/exelon is going to steamroll with their smartgrid here soon 
anyway, but in the meantime id like to minimize each others headaches



--
If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your 
team as part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.

Re: [AFMUG] OT Robot explosive

[That One Guy /sarcasm]

Im waiting for the president to condemn doing that.








drone strike civilian casualties count anyone?

On Tue, Jul 12, 2016 at 12:50 PM, David  wrote:

> Almost spewed my coke i was drinking..
>
> What if it were you that had to go knock that door down to take that guy
> out?
> I would choose the automated safe way out... GO ROBOTS!
>
>
>
> On 07/12/2016 09:55 AM, That One Guy /sarcasm wrote:
>
> [image: Inline image 1]
>
> On Tue, Jul 12, 2016 at 9:11 AM, Chuck McCown  wrote:
>
>> Interesting article:
>>
>> http://ktla.com/2016/07/12/how-police-used-robot-to-take-out-dallas-sniper-in-unprecedented-way/
>>
>
>
>
> --
> If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team
> as part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.
>
>
>


-- 
If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team as
part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.

[AFMUG] working with Ameren 900mhz

[That One Guy /sarcasm]

Ameren made contact with us (well their subcontractor) regarding two of our
fsk sites. They have lost communications with something like 250-300 nodes
or whatever.
I feel bad for these guys, no tools beyond finding interference and asking
operators to change channels.
One site we are on 922
[image: Inline image 1]
and the other we are on 916
[image: Inline image 2]

We dont have much option either. I would prefer to just finish dumping
900mhz all together, but thats outside my authority.

the only info he can provide is Ameren's meter modules operate at 917.53
MHz with a bandwidth of +or- 1-3. He did know thats a hard set channel, but
not sure if thats a 1-3mhz or actually a 2-6mhz channel.

I dont have a problem helping where I can, but as you can see, I dont have
any spectrum to move to. The second one is on that channel because it was
the least bad at the CPE sides.

Is there any tweaking on FSK to make it colocate a little better for these
guys. Its like I told him, it doesnt matter anyway because comed/exelon is
going to steamroll with their smartgrid here soon anyway, but in the
meantime id like to minimize each others headaches


-- 
If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team as
part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.

Re: [AFMUG] -48 PDU

[George Skorup]

That's cool! I can wait for the new stuff. And I'll mention that I'm 
much more interested in the devices with electronic over-current 
protection to eliminate fuses.


On 7/12/2016 4:08 AM, Forrest Christian (List Account) wrote:
I have around 10 or so new/revised products which will be shipping 
over the next few months.  (4 of the ones in our backlog have just 
started shipping the last couple of weeks, and others are coming off 
the pipeline shortly).


At least two of the coming products are intended to fix the lack of 
-48VDC support. One of which is the addition of a 5PDU for -48VDC 
(which is able to be powered from the -48VDC power source so it 
doesn't need a base unit).   The other one I can think of right now is 
there's a 6 channel solid state relay coming as well.   Both will 
switch -48VDC at at least 3A.   The PDU has a maximum-all-channels 
limit of I think 8A.   The SSR module will not have this limit.


I can build a -48VDC PDU on the existing board:  To date I have not 
had any customers ask me to do so once I have explained that this 
module would have to be connected to a base unit, and rebooting or 
losing the power to the base unit would result in all of the -48VDC 
loads attached to the PDU being shut off during the power loss or 
reboot.   This is also the reason it is not currently on the website 
as an option.


On Mon, Jul 11, 2016 at 8:11 PM, George Skorup > wrote:


I asked Forrest about doing a -48 version of the 5ch PDU. He said
it would need some tweaking since the PDU itself is powered by the
main input, kinda like a SyncInjector.

Depending on your current, you could use a regular 4-relay exp.
module to switch the hot wire for each device. Should be able to
handle about 1A @ 48VDC. Next question is, would a -48 version of
the PDU support say 1.5A per port? I know you can set the per port
limit to 3000mA, but I'm not sure if it'd be capable of that
between 44 and 58VDC. I want to say I remember him saying 1.5A
should be OK.

I have some Trango licensed radios that I'd like to get on remote
power control, but so far there's nothing to handle them. Nothing
that I like anyway. And the problem there is the damn 75-80 watts
of power they use.

On 7/11/2016 7:30 PM, Adam Moffett wrote:

Is there a relatively cheap device that can take 48v in and
switch a handful of -48vdc loads on and off?
I'm thinking like $100-200 kind of cheap.  Small and DIN mount
would be best.
The packetflux PDU has a negative ground, so that's already out.





--
*Forrest Christian* /CEO//, PacketFlux Technologies, Inc./
Tel: 406-449-3345 | Address: 3577 Countryside Road, Helena, MT 59602
forre...@imach.com  | 
http://www.packetflux.com 
 
 

Re: [AFMUG] OT Robot explosive

[David]

Almost spewed my coke i was drinking..

What if it were you that had to go knock that door down to take that guy 
out?

I would choose the automated safe way out... GO ROBOTS!


On 07/12/2016 09:55 AM, That One Guy /sarcasm wrote:

Inline image 1

On Tue, Jul 12, 2016 at 9:11 AM, Chuck McCown > wrote:


Interesting article:

http://ktla.com/2016/07/12/how-police-used-robot-to-take-out-dallas-sniper-in-unprecedented-way/




--
If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your 
team as part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.

Re: [AFMUG] 5 Ghz Dual Polarity Panel

[Ken Hohhof]

MT-485025/NVH

Price seems to have come down.


-Original Message- 
From: Matt 
Sent: Tuesday, July 12, 2016 12:19 PM 
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: [AFMUG] 5 Ghz Dual Polarity Panel 


Looking for 20 - 24 db gain dual 5 GHZ polarity panel with
N-connectors.  Anyone have a favorite?

Re: [AFMUG] old laptops

[Jeff Broadwick - Lists]

Counted on you Steve!

Jeff Broadwick
ConVergence Technologies, Inc.
312-205-2519 Office
574-220-7826 Cell
jbroadw...@converge-tech.com

> On Jul 12, 2016, at 1:10 PM, That One Guy /sarcasm 
>  wrote:
> 
> i see what you did there
> 
>> On Tue, Jul 12, 2016 at 11:38 AM, Jeff Broadwick - Lists  
>> wrote:
>> With a towel?   ;-)
>> 
>> Jeff Broadwick
>> ConVergence Technologies, Inc.
>> 312-205-2519 Office
>> 574-220-7826 Cell
>> jbroadw...@converge-tech.com
>> 
>>> On Jul 12, 2016, at 12:36 PM, Bruce Robertson  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Wipe the disks and donate them to a charity.
>>> 
 On 07/12/2016 09:34 AM, Chuck McCown wrote:
 What should I do with a tower of old laptops stacking up at my house.� I 
 hate to toss them.� I am sure most of them can be made to work, perhaps 
 with a new battery.�
 !DSPAM:2,57851c1c158301306119731!
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team as 
> part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.

Re: [AFMUG] old laptops

[Ken Hohhof]

486 with WinME ... face it, they’re e-waste.

Find an electronics recycler that will guarantee they’ll wipe or destroy the 
disks and won’t charge to take them off your hands.

If they work and have an Ethernet port and maybe a serial port, keep at least 
one of them around for when you need to program equipment.  And if they have a 
diskette drive and CD/DVD drive, maybe keep one around in case you need to read 
one of those.  New “ultrabooks” tend to assume everything is WiFi and stored in 
the cloud.


From: Simon Westlake 
Sent: Tuesday, July 12, 2016 11:57 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] old laptops

If they are that old, I doubt they have too much value for charities. You'd 
probably be lucky to give them away, I have a few that aren't even as old as 
that, and I haven't been able to find anyone that wants them.

I would just take them to Goodwill if you don't want them to go to waste, 
putting the OS back on them would probably help most people. 


On 7/12/2016 11:49 AM, Chuck McCown wrote:

  Some of them have Windows ME on them 486 machines.  

  From: Bruce Robertson 
  Sent: Tuesday, July 12, 2016 10:48 AM
  To: af@afmug.com 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] old laptops

  Chuck has 'em, not me!


  On 07/12/2016 09:44 AM, Tim Reichhart wrote:

Bruce
what kind of laptops you got? I am always looking for laptops for my wisp.

Tim



--
  -Original Message-
  From: "Glen Waldrop" 
  To: af@afmug.com
  Date: 07/12/16 12:40 PM
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] old laptops


  If you did I'd wipe and reload.

  Anyone going to a thrift store for a computer is either poor and likely 
can't do anything with it if there is a problem or possibly a techie, they'll 
wipe and reload regardless.


- Original Message -
 From: Chuck McCown 
 To: af@afmug.com 
 Sent: Tuesday, July 12, 2016 11:38 AM
 Subject: Re: [AFMUG] old laptops

  
I am wondering if they have much value for charities.  I suppose thrift 
stores sell them. 
Should I leave the OS on them?
  
  

  
 From: Bruce Robertson 
Sent: Tuesday, July 12, 2016 10:36 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] old laptops
 
 

 Wipe the disks and donate them to a charity.


On 07/12/2016 09:34 AM, Chuck McCown wrote:
 
  What should I do with a tower of old laptops stacking up at my 
house.� I hate to toss them.� I am sure most of them can be made to work, 
perhaps with a new battery.�

  
 
!DSPAM:2,57851e5a161376540316673! 




-- 
Simon Westlake
Skype: Simon_Sonar
Email: simon@sonar.software
Phone: (702) 447-1247
---
Sonar Software Inc
The next generation of ISP billing and OSS
https://sonar.software

Re: [AFMUG] Larger Not-that-high-res monitors

[Bill Prince]

Would this work? 49" diagonal, and 3840 x 2160 UHD. $285. Humma humma.

https://www.amazon.com/Avera-49EQX10-49-Ultra-LED/dp/B01FRQGN16/ref=sr_1_1?s=tv&ie=UTF8&qid=1468344057&sr=1-1&keywords=4k+tv+32+inch&refinements=p_n_feature_keywords_three_browse-bin%3A7688788011

bp


On 7/12/2016 7:59 AM, Chuck McCown wrote:
I have a 32” LG TV at one office.  Big enough for browser on the left 
and email on the right.  1080p
Resolution is just fine for my tired eyes.Super cheap.  Plus it 
has a tuner and OTT client inside.

*From:* Lewis Bergman 
*Sent:* Tuesday, July 12, 2016 8:45 AM
*To:* af@afmug.com 
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Larger Not-that-high-res monitors
I had thought about buying 2 32" TV's instead of 4 24" but I was 
concerned about the resolution and having to "blow up" the text big 
enough to see. What does your setup look like Chuck?
I connect to my 65" curved Samsung in my office but I do so wirelessly 
(should have run HDMI when I built my new place. Can't believe I 
forgot that.) and the performance on that setup is pretty laggy as you 
would expect.
On Tue, Jul 12, 2016 at 9:07 AM Ken Hohhof > wrote:


Lots of Hanns-G repair kits for sale, sounds like they have a bulging
capacitor problem.  If you bought a bunch of those monitors (but
no spares),
this may just be the first one to die.

Probably not much demand today for 28 inch monitors with only
1920x1200
resolution, might look for about twice that.


-Original Message-
From: Chuck McCown
Sent: Tuesday, July 12, 2016 8:51 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Larger Not-that-high-res monitors

I buy TVs.

-Original Message-
From: Nate Burke
Sent: Monday, July 11, 2016 9:59 PM
To: Animal Farm
Subject: [AFMUG] Larger Not-that-high-res monitors

One of my desktop Hanns-G 28" 1920x1200 monitors just crapped out.
I was
using it, and the display went all white, and I can't even bring
up the
monitor controls.  I went to look for a replacement and apparently
these
are an odd bird.  The 1920x1200 monitors I'm finding are 26" or less,
and start at $300.  I think I only paid like $250 when I bought these
new back in 2011.  Has something changed with Monitors that
they're all
smaller and more expensive now?