Re: [AFMUG] OT. Trump's supporters talk rebellion, assassination at his rallies

[Jaime Solorza]

Hey as a bass player in a band... Quasi celebrity in my own mind, does that
mean I can grope me some trim with impunity?   Only thing is, my wife is
not as forgiving as Melania... Maybe if I was a billionaire she would

On Oct 16, 2016 2:53 PM, "CBB - Jay Fuller" 
wrote:

>
>
> ..facepalm..
>
> Sent from my Verizon 4G LTE Smartphone
>
> - Reply message -
> From: ch...@wbmfg.com
> To: 
> Subject: [AFMUG] OT. Trump's supporters talk rebellion, assassination at
> his rallies
> Date: Sun, Oct 16, 2016 3:36 PM
>
> Stefon,
>
> Salt Lake City’s hottest night club is called:
> Trump’s P*ssy Grab
> It has democrat midgets you can throw,
> A cage full of undocumented Mexicans
> And all the servers are naked former beauty pageant contestants
>
> Or did you mean another Stefan?
>
> *From:* Ken Hohhof
> *Sent:* Sunday, October 16, 2016 2:30 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT. Trump's supporters talk
> rebellion,assassination at his rallies
>
>
> You do realize Stefan is in Germany, right?
>
>
>
> Or maybe you are referring to the international cabal?
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Rory Conaway
> *Sent:* Sunday, October 16, 2016 1:50 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT. Trump's supporters talk rebellion,
> assassination at his rallies
>
>
>
> Would that be all the papers that met with the Clinton Campaign to
> organize the message?  They left serious new journalism a long time ago.
> Wikieleaks is a pain that way, showing the truth and all that.  The only
> ones the Clinton Campaign didn’t invite was Fox.
>
>
>
> Rory
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Stefan Englhardt
> *Sent:* Saturday, October 15, 2016 10:07 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT. Trump's supporters talk rebellion,
> assassination at his rallies
>
>
>
> Bild is no paper you should take as reference. It is just big letters and
> made for people who barely could read but don't understand.
>
> But serious papers don't like Trump, too. Trump does give a very bad
> picture of US to other nations.
>
>
>
>  Ursprüngliche Nachricht 
> Von: Ken Hohhof 
> Datum: 16.10.2016 03:48 (GMT+01:00)
> An: af@afmug.com
> Betreff: Re: [AFMUG] OT. Trump's supporters talk rebellion, assassination
> at his rallies
>

Re: [AFMUG] OT. Trump's supporters talk rebellion, assassination at his rallies

[CBB - Jay Fuller]

..facepalm..

Sent from my Verizon 4G LTE Smartphone

- Reply message -
From: ch...@wbmfg.com
To: 
Subject: [AFMUG] OT. Trump's supporters talk rebellion, assassination at his 
rallies
Date: Sun, Oct 16, 2016 3:36 PM

Stefon,

Salt Lake City’s hottest night club is called:
Trump’s P*ssy Grab
It has democrat midgets you can throw,
A cage full of undocumented Mexicans
And all the servers are naked former beauty pageant contestants

Or did you mean another Stefan?




From: Ken 
Hohhof 
Sent: Sunday, October 16, 2016 2:30 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT. Trump's supporters talk 
rebellion,assassination at his rallies



You do realize Stefan 
is in Germany, right?

Or maybe you are 
referring to the international cabal?




From: Af 
[mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Rory ConawaySent: 
Sunday, October 16, 2016 1:50 PMTo: af@afmug.comSubject: 
Re: [AFMUG] OT. Trump's supporters talk rebellion, assassination at his 
rallies

Would 
that be all the papers that met with the Clinton Campaign to organize the 
message?  They left serious new journalism a long time ago.  
Wikieleaks is a pain that way, showing the truth and all that.  The only 
ones the Clinton Campaign didn’t invite was Fox.  

Rory



From: Af 
[mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Stefan 
EnglhardtSent: Saturday, October 15, 2016 10:07 PMTo: 
af@afmug.comSubject: Re: [AFMUG] OT. Trump's supporters talk 
rebellion, assassination at his rallies


Bild is no paper you should take as reference. It is just big 
letters and made for people who barely could read but don't 
understand.

But serious papers don't like Trump, too. Trump does give a 
very bad picture of US to other nations. 
 Ursprüngliche 
Nachricht Von: Ken Hohhof  Datum: 
16.10.2016 03:48 (GMT+01:00) An: af@afmug.com Betreff: Re: 
[AFMUG] OT. Trump's supporters talk rebellion, assassination at his rallies

Re: [AFMUG] "buffering"

[Bill Prince]

It was animated on my end.


bp


On 10/15/2016 5:24 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:


Why didn’t the animated GIF come through as animated?  Is it because I 
sent it embedded rather than attached?  But I’ve done that with 
animated emoticons before and it worked.  Is it because I’m using 
Outlook now?


*From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Josh Reynolds
*Sent:* Saturday, October 15, 2016 7:16 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] "buffering"

LOL

On Oct 15, 2016 6:51 PM, "Robert Andrews" > wrote:


As the original webmaster at netscape, thanks for the memories

On 10/15/2016 10:55 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote:

Yep, here’s your video:

*From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com
] *On Behalf Of *Chuck McCown
*Sent:* Saturday, October 15, 2016 12:48 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com 
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] "buffering"

I read the word “Netflix” and my brain received “Netscape”.
Talk about a
confusing moment...

*From:*CBB - Jay Fuller

*Sent:*Saturday, October 15, 2016 11:33 AM

*To:*af@afmug.com  >

*Subject:*Re: [AFMUG] "buffering"

I have a smart tv that works fine but won't update. It is an
earlier
Netflix interface but I actually like it better than the modern
interface.

Sent from my Verizon 4G LTE Smartphone

- Reply message -
From: "Ken Hohhof" mailto:af...@kwisp.com>
>>
To: mailto:af@afmug.com> >>
Subject: [AFMUG] "buffering"
Date: Sat, Oct 15, 2016 12:10 PM

In your experience, does it help if the customer goes through the
procedure to update the app on the smart TV?

Most of the smart TVs we run into seem to be Samsung. I know a
lot of
the early ones also didn’t seem to play well with certain WiFi
routers.

*From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com
] *On Behalf Of *Joe Novak
*Sent:* Saturday, October 15, 2016 11:59 AM
*To:* af@afmug.com  >
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] "buffering"

In a lot of the early smart TVs - even some of the new ones - the
netflix 'smart' modulation did not work well if at all. The
Roku's and
streaming boxes usually have perfect support for it. Hulu
seems to do
good too. Direct TV has shit poor bandwidth management, and
poor peering
as far as we could tell.

On Sat, Oct 15, 2016 at 11:52 AM, Ken Hohhof mailto:af...@kwisp.com>
>> wrote:

The most recent customer I think I’ve gotten to clarify
the video is
actually stopping and starting.  Previously he was saying
it took a
long time to buffer but was fine once the picture
appeared.  That’s
what got me to thinking the latest complaint was
impatience with how
long it took before the video started playing, not
problems while it
was playing.  The next challenge is to find out what streaming
service he is using, people tend to call them all
“Netflix”.  But I
rarely hear about Netflix stopping to buffer because
Netflix can
switch stream rates on the fly, if it’s actually Netflix
and it is
stopping and starting, in my experience it’s usually
something other
than just slow Internet.  Like WiFi dropping out, or
packet loss, or
a Windows 10 download overloading the connection.

We have transitioned to the point where people sit down in
front of
their “smart TV” and expect to watch TV, who knows what
streaming
service, but there is only one answer if it doesn’t work
like old
fashioned TV – your Internet is too slow.  I had a
customer call
because she couldn’t watch an online class on her computer
which was
telling her “you  are  not connected to a network”, and
there was an
airplane symbol in the lower right.  Tech support for the
online
college told her that meant her Internet was too slow.  I was
tempted to tell her the airplane symbol actually meant her
Internet
was really fast (it’s flying), otherwise it would show a
car or a
turtle.

*From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com
] *On Behalf Of *Chuck McCown
   

Re: [AFMUG] "buffering"

[Ken Hohhof]

This article says you can steam Vue on a Roku or Fire TV, but it says the Roku 
app is inferior.  If you read the linked article, the author is complaining 
about the user interface, not the video quality, saying Sony used a standard 
Roku template rather than writing the app from scratch.

 

http://www.techhive.com/article/3047812/streaming-services/playstation-vue-faq-everything-to-know-about-sony-s-cable-tv-alternative.html

 

 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of ch...@wbmfg.com
Sent: Sunday, October 16, 2016 3:33 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] "buffering"

 

So far Sony PS Vue or whatever it is called is the only OTC that has Discovery 
and related channels.  

 

From: Josh Reynolds 

Sent: Sunday, October 16, 2016 2:17 PM

To: af@afmug.com   

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] "buffering"

 

Roku and FireTV are the best, by far. Roku has more channels, firetv has more 
app capability (android).

AppleTV streams like shit compared to those two.

 

On Oct 16, 2016 11:20 AM, "That One Guy /sarcasm" mailto:thatoneguyst...@gmail.com> > wrote:

Roku is just an amazing nail on the head device. I still run the old xd it 
still updates, the apps still update, it's got the supported dev channels. 
That's probably one of the most elegantly perfect pieces of electronic in my 
home

 

On Oct 16, 2016 10:49 AM, "Bill Prince" mailto:part15...@gmail.com> > wrote:

The problem with whatever app is on the TV (or if there is an app), is that if 
the TV is more than 1 year old, it will never be updated again.

The Netflix app on our (now) 5 year old LG is a poor example of how Netflix 
should actually work (or any of the online streaming services for that matter). 
I didn't realize how poor until we installed a ROKU 2, and found out what a 
reasonably modern implementation looked like.

 

bp

 

On 10/15/2016 10:10 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote:

In your experience, does it help if the customer goes through the procedure to 
update the app on the smart TV?

 

Most of the smart TVs we run into seem to be Samsung.  I know a lot of the 
early ones also didn’t seem to play well with certain WiFi routers.

 

Re: [AFMUG] OT. Trump's supporters talk rebellion, assassination at his rallies

[Josh Reynolds]

Watching Trump continuously dodge questions made me mad as hell. Just
answer it. Even if people don't like the answer you at least have some
integrity.

On Oct 16, 2016 3:42 PM, "That One Guy /sarcasm" 
wrote:

> Name 2. I had some faith in Anderson Cooper having integrity until the
> debate
>
> On Oct 16, 2016 3:34 PM, "Lewis Bergman"  wrote:
>
>> There are only a few news anchors that are neutral. The rest are just
>> giddy for one Suze or the other.
>> On Sun, Oct 16, 2016, 3:16 PM Josh Reynolds  wrote:
>>
>> Agreed
>>
>> On Oct 16, 2016 2:53 PM,  wrote:
>>
>> No, FOX=CNN-MSNBC
>>
>> *From:* Sean Heskett
>> *Sent:* Sunday, October 16, 2016 1:43 PM
>>
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT. Trump's supporters talk rebellion,
>> assassination at his rallies
>>
>> So FOX/CNN = MSNBC ???
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sunday, October 16, 2016,  wrote:
>>
>> FOX + MSNBC = CNN
>>
>>
>> *From:* Lewis Bergman
>> *Sent:* Sunday, October 16, 2016 1:35 PM
>>
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT. Trump's supporters talk rebellion,
>> assassination at his rallies
>>
>> Sadly, as much as any of them are now.
>>
>>
>> On Sun, Oct 16, 2016 at 2:25 PM That One Guy /sarcasm <
>> thatoneguyst...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Was fox ever an actual news entity?
>>
>> On Oct 16, 2016 1:50 PM, "Rory Conaway"  wrote:
>>
>> Would that be all the papers that met with the Clinton Campaign to
>> organize the message?  They left serious new journalism a long time ago.
>> Wikieleaks is a pain that way, showing the truth and all that.  The only
>> ones the Clinton Campaign didn’t invite was Fox.
>>
>>
>>
>> Rory
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Stefan Englhardt
>> *Sent:* Saturday, October 15, 2016 10:07 PM
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT. Trump's supporters talk rebellion,
>> assassination at his rallies
>>
>>
>>
>> Bild is no paper you should take as reference. It is just big letters and
>> made for people who barely could read but don't understand.
>>
>> But serious papers don't like Trump, too. Trump does give a very bad
>> picture of US to other nations.
>>
>>
>>
>>  Ursprüngliche Nachricht 
>> Von: Ken Hohhof 
>> Datum: 16.10.2016 03:48 (GMT+01:00)
>> An: af@afmug.com
>> Betreff: Re: [AFMUG] OT. Trump's supporters talk rebellion, assassination
>> at his rallies
>>
>>

Re: [AFMUG] "buffering"

[That One Guy /sarcasm]

Yeah, Sony and their record of data protection. Not a chance in hell I'll
tie anything about me with anything of theirs

On Oct 16, 2016 3:32 PM,  wrote:

> So far Sony PS Vue or whatever it is called is the only OTC that has
> Discovery and related channels.
>
> *From:* Josh Reynolds
> *Sent:* Sunday, October 16, 2016 2:17 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] "buffering"
>
>
> Roku and FireTV are the best, by far. Roku has more channels, firetv has
> more app capability (android).
>
> AppleTV streams like shit compared to those two.
>
> On Oct 16, 2016 11:20 AM, "That One Guy /sarcasm" <
> thatoneguyst...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Roku is just an amazing nail on the head device. I still run the old xd
>> it still updates, the apps still update, it's got the supported dev
>> channels. That's probably one of the most elegantly perfect pieces of
>> electronic in my home
>>
>> On Oct 16, 2016 10:49 AM, "Bill Prince"  wrote:
>>
>>> The problem with whatever app is on the TV (or if there is an app), is
>>> that if the TV is more than 1 year old, it will never be updated again.
>>>
>>> The Netflix app on our (now) 5 year old LG is a poor example of how
>>> Netflix should actually work (or any of the online streaming services for
>>> that matter). I didn't realize how poor until we installed a ROKU 2, and
>>> found out what a reasonably modern implementation looked like.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> bp
>>> 
>>>
>>>
>>> On 10/15/2016 10:10 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
>>>
>>> In your experience, does it help if the customer goes through the
>>> procedure to update the app on the smart TV?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Most of the smart TVs we run into seem to be Samsung.  I know a lot of
>>> the early ones also didn’t seem to play well with certain WiFi routers.
>>>
>>>
>>>

Re: [AFMUG] "buffering"

[Josh Reynolds]

There's an android discovery app.

On Oct 16, 2016 3:32 PM,  wrote:

> So far Sony PS Vue or whatever it is called is the only OTC that has
> Discovery and related channels.
>
> *From:* Josh Reynolds
> *Sent:* Sunday, October 16, 2016 2:17 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] "buffering"
>
>
> Roku and FireTV are the best, by far. Roku has more channels, firetv has
> more app capability (android).
>
> AppleTV streams like shit compared to those two.
>
> On Oct 16, 2016 11:20 AM, "That One Guy /sarcasm" <
> thatoneguyst...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Roku is just an amazing nail on the head device. I still run the old xd
>> it still updates, the apps still update, it's got the supported dev
>> channels. That's probably one of the most elegantly perfect pieces of
>> electronic in my home
>>
>> On Oct 16, 2016 10:49 AM, "Bill Prince"  wrote:
>>
>>> The problem with whatever app is on the TV (or if there is an app), is
>>> that if the TV is more than 1 year old, it will never be updated again.
>>>
>>> The Netflix app on our (now) 5 year old LG is a poor example of how
>>> Netflix should actually work (or any of the online streaming services for
>>> that matter). I didn't realize how poor until we installed a ROKU 2, and
>>> found out what a reasonably modern implementation looked like.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> bp
>>> 
>>>
>>>
>>> On 10/15/2016 10:10 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
>>>
>>> In your experience, does it help if the customer goes through the
>>> procedure to update the app on the smart TV?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Most of the smart TVs we run into seem to be Samsung.  I know a lot of
>>> the early ones also didn’t seem to play well with certain WiFi routers.
>>>
>>>
>>>

Re: [AFMUG] OT. Trump's supporters talk rebellion, assassination at his rallies

[Sean Heskett]

Sorry my algebra is a little rusty after a Saturday night lol ;)



On Sunday, October 16, 2016,  wrote:

> No, FOX=CNN-MSNBC
>
> *From:* Sean Heskett
> *Sent:* Sunday, October 16, 2016 1:43 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT. Trump's supporters talk rebellion,
> assassination at his rallies
>
> So FOX/CNN = MSNBC ???
>
>
>
> On Sunday, October 16, 2016,  wrote:
>
>> FOX + MSNBC = CNN
>>
>> *From:* Lewis Bergman
>> *Sent:* Sunday, October 16, 2016 1:35 PM
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT. Trump's supporters talk rebellion,
>> assassination at his rallies
>>
>> Sadly, as much as any of them are now.
>>
>> On Sun, Oct 16, 2016 at 2:25 PM That One Guy /sarcasm <
>> thatoneguyst...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Was fox ever an actual news entity?
>>>
>>> On Oct 16, 2016 1:50 PM, "Rory Conaway"  wrote:
>>>
 Would that be all the papers that met with the Clinton Campaign to
 organize the message?  They left serious new journalism a long time ago.
 Wikieleaks is a pain that way, showing the truth and all that.  The only
 ones the Clinton Campaign didn’t invite was Fox.



 Rory



 *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Stefan
 Englhardt
 *Sent:* Saturday, October 15, 2016 10:07 PM
 *To:* af@afmug.com
 *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT. Trump's supporters talk rebellion,
 assassination at his rallies



 Bild is no paper you should take as reference. It is just big letters
 and made for people who barely could read but don't understand.

 But serious papers don't like Trump, too. Trump does give a very bad
 picture of US to other nations.



  Ursprüngliche Nachricht 
 Von: Ken Hohhof 
 Datum: 16.10.2016 03:48 (GMT+01:00)
 An: af@afmug.com
 Betreff: Re: [AFMUG] OT. Trump's supporters talk rebellion,
 assassination at his rallies

>>>

Re: [AFMUG] OT. Trump's supporters talk rebellion, assassination at his rallies

[Ken Hohhof]

I hope Stefan is familiar with Stefon, the Bill Hader character on SNL, or he 
will be confused, insulted, or both.

Or did you mean yet another Stefon?

 

 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of ch...@wbmfg.com
Sent: Sunday, October 16, 2016 3:37 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT. Trump's supporters talk rebellion, assassination at 
his rallies

 

Stefon,

 

Salt Lake City’s hottest night club is called:

Trump’s P*ssy Grab

It has democrat midgets you can throw,

A cage full of undocumented Mexicans

And all the servers are naked former beauty pageant contestants

 

Or did you mean another Stefan?

 

From: Ken Hohhof 

Sent: Sunday, October 16, 2016 2:30 PM

To: af@afmug.com   

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT. Trump's supporters talk rebellion,assassination at his 
rallies

 

You do realize Stefan is in Germany, right?

 

Or maybe you are referring to the international cabal?

 

 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Rory Conaway
Sent: Sunday, October 16, 2016 1:50 PM
To: af@afmug.com  
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT. Trump's supporters talk rebellion, assassination at 
his rallies

 

Would that be all the papers that met with the Clinton Campaign to organize the 
message?  They left serious new journalism a long time ago.  Wikieleaks is a 
pain that way, showing the truth and all that.  The only ones the Clinton 
Campaign didn’t invite was Fox.  

 

Rory

 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Stefan Englhardt
Sent: Saturday, October 15, 2016 10:07 PM
To: af@afmug.com  
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT. Trump's supporters talk rebellion, assassination at 
his rallies

 

Bild is no paper you should take as reference. It is just big letters and made 
for people who barely could read but don't understand.

But serious papers don't like Trump, too. Trump does give a very bad picture of 
US to other nations. 



 Ursprüngliche Nachricht 
Von: Ken Hohhof mailto:af...@kwisp.com> > 
Datum: 16.10.2016 03:48 (GMT+01:00) 
An: af@afmug.com   
Betreff: Re: [AFMUG] OT. Trump's supporters talk rebellion, assassination at 
his rallies 

Re: [AFMUG] OT. Trump's supporters talk rebellion, assassination at his rallies

[That One Guy /sarcasm]

Name 2. I had some faith in Anderson Cooper having integrity until the
debate

On Oct 16, 2016 3:34 PM, "Lewis Bergman"  wrote:

> There are only a few news anchors that are neutral. The rest are just
> giddy for one Suze or the other.
> On Sun, Oct 16, 2016, 3:16 PM Josh Reynolds  wrote:
>
> Agreed
>
> On Oct 16, 2016 2:53 PM,  wrote:
>
> No, FOX=CNN-MSNBC
>
> *From:* Sean Heskett
> *Sent:* Sunday, October 16, 2016 1:43 PM
>
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT. Trump's supporters talk rebellion,
> assassination at his rallies
>
> So FOX/CNN = MSNBC ???
>
>
>
>
> On Sunday, October 16, 2016,  wrote:
>
> FOX + MSNBC = CNN
>
>
> *From:* Lewis Bergman
> *Sent:* Sunday, October 16, 2016 1:35 PM
>
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT. Trump's supporters talk rebellion,
> assassination at his rallies
>
> Sadly, as much as any of them are now.
>
>
> On Sun, Oct 16, 2016 at 2:25 PM That One Guy /sarcasm <
> thatoneguyst...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Was fox ever an actual news entity?
>
> On Oct 16, 2016 1:50 PM, "Rory Conaway"  wrote:
>
> Would that be all the papers that met with the Clinton Campaign to
> organize the message?  They left serious new journalism a long time ago.
> Wikieleaks is a pain that way, showing the truth and all that.  The only
> ones the Clinton Campaign didn’t invite was Fox.
>
>
>
> Rory
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Stefan Englhardt
> *Sent:* Saturday, October 15, 2016 10:07 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT. Trump's supporters talk rebellion,
> assassination at his rallies
>
>
>
> Bild is no paper you should take as reference. It is just big letters and
> made for people who barely could read but don't understand.
>
> But serious papers don't like Trump, too. Trump does give a very bad
> picture of US to other nations.
>
>
>
>  Ursprüngliche Nachricht 
> Von: Ken Hohhof 
> Datum: 16.10.2016 03:48 (GMT+01:00)
> An: af@afmug.com
> Betreff: Re: [AFMUG] OT. Trump's supporters talk rebellion, assassination
> at his rallies
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] 3.65 licensing

[Jaime Solorza]

I am too poor to pay attention

On Oct 16, 2016 1:57 PM, "Mike Hammett"  wrote:

> Agreed. WISPA provides no shortage of education on and regulatory updates.
> Pay attention.
>
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Midwest Internet Exchange 
> 
> 
> 
> The Brothers WISP 
> 
>
>
> 
> --
> *From: *"Sean Heskett" 
> *To: *af@afmug.com
> *Sent: *Sunday, October 16, 2016 2:37:07 PM
> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] 3.65 licensing
>
> Continue with business as usual the only difference is everything
> registered after 4/17/15 does not get protection once the CBRS SAS system
> gets going (probably late 2017 or 2018).
>
> After 4/17/2020 everything has to talk to the SAS.
>
> There's more to it obviously but that's the cliff notes version.  There
> have been many WISPA webinars and they had 2 sessions about it at
> WISPAPALOOZA.
>
>
> -Sean
>
>
> On Sunday, October 16, 2016, Philip Rankin  wrote:
>
>> Can one of you point me to a comprehensive description of the current
>> rules for 3.65?  With a NN license, can we add APs, or CPE's legally still?
>>
>> What's supposed to happen to our NN licenses?
>>
>> Amy guidance is appreciated.
>>
>> --
>> Philip J. Rankin
>> Wireless Telecommunications Services
>> PO Box 24
>> Pittsburg, KS  66762
>>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] OT Movie Review

[Lewis Bergman]

Agreed. I didn't get the idea they were laying out a series but who knows.
I like it. Really liked the asberger assassin angle.

On Sun, Oct 16, 2016, 2:57 PM  wrote:

> *The Accountant*
>
> I enjoyed it.  I think they are trying to create another Bourne type of
> thing.  Critics were split on it but it was worth the money for me.
>

Re: [AFMUG] OT. Trump's supporters talk rebellion, assassination at his rallies

[chuck]

Stefon,

Salt Lake City’s hottest night club is called:
Trump’s P*ssy Grab
It has democrat midgets you can throw,
A cage full of undocumented Mexicans
And all the servers are naked former beauty pageant contestants

Or did you mean another Stefan?

From: Ken Hohhof 
Sent: Sunday, October 16, 2016 2:30 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT. Trump's supporters talk rebellion,assassination at his 
rallies

You do realize Stefan is in Germany, right?

 

Or maybe you are referring to the international cabal?

 

 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Rory Conaway
Sent: Sunday, October 16, 2016 1:50 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT. Trump's supporters talk rebellion, assassination at 
his rallies

 

Would that be all the papers that met with the Clinton Campaign to organize the 
message?  They left serious new journalism a long time ago.  Wikieleaks is a 
pain that way, showing the truth and all that.  The only ones the Clinton 
Campaign didn’t invite was Fox.  

 

Rory

 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Stefan Englhardt
Sent: Saturday, October 15, 2016 10:07 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT. Trump's supporters talk rebellion, assassination at 
his rallies

 

Bild is no paper you should take as reference. It is just big letters and made 
for people who barely could read but don't understand.

But serious papers don't like Trump, too. Trump does give a very bad picture of 
US to other nations. 



 Ursprüngliche Nachricht 
Von: Ken Hohhof  
Datum: 16.10.2016 03:48 (GMT+01:00) 
An: af@afmug.com 
Betreff: Re: [AFMUG] OT. Trump's supporters talk rebellion, assassination at 
his rallies 

Re: [AFMUG] OT. Trump's supporters talk rebellion, assassination at his rallies

[Lewis Bergman]

There are only a few news anchors that are neutral. The rest are just giddy
for one Suze or the other.
On Sun, Oct 16, 2016, 3:16 PM Josh Reynolds  wrote:

Agreed

On Oct 16, 2016 2:53 PM,  wrote:

No, FOX=CNN-MSNBC

*From:* Sean Heskett
*Sent:* Sunday, October 16, 2016 1:43 PM

*To:* af@afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT. Trump's supporters talk rebellion, assassination
at his rallies

So FOX/CNN = MSNBC ???




On Sunday, October 16, 2016,  wrote:

FOX + MSNBC = CNN


*From:* Lewis Bergman
*Sent:* Sunday, October 16, 2016 1:35 PM

*To:* af@afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT. Trump's supporters talk rebellion, assassination
at his rallies

Sadly, as much as any of them are now.


On Sun, Oct 16, 2016 at 2:25 PM That One Guy /sarcasm <
thatoneguyst...@gmail.com> wrote:

Was fox ever an actual news entity?

On Oct 16, 2016 1:50 PM, "Rory Conaway"  wrote:

Would that be all the papers that met with the Clinton Campaign to organize
the message?  They left serious new journalism a long time ago.  Wikieleaks
is a pain that way, showing the truth and all that.  The only ones the
Clinton Campaign didn’t invite was Fox.



Rory



*From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Stefan Englhardt
*Sent:* Saturday, October 15, 2016 10:07 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT. Trump's supporters talk rebellion, assassination
at his rallies



Bild is no paper you should take as reference. It is just big letters and
made for people who barely could read but don't understand.

But serious papers don't like Trump, too. Trump does give a very bad
picture of US to other nations.



 Ursprüngliche Nachricht 
Von: Ken Hohhof 
Datum: 16.10.2016 03:48 (GMT+01:00)
An: af@afmug.com
Betreff: Re: [AFMUG] OT. Trump's supporters talk rebellion, assassination
at his rallies

Re: [AFMUG] "buffering"

[chuck]

So far Sony PS Vue or whatever it is called is the only OTC that has Discovery 
and related channels.  

From: Josh Reynolds 
Sent: Sunday, October 16, 2016 2:17 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] "buffering"

Roku and FireTV are the best, by far. Roku has more channels, firetv has more 
app capability (android).

AppleTV streams like shit compared to those two.


On Oct 16, 2016 11:20 AM, "That One Guy /sarcasm"  
wrote:

  Roku is just an amazing nail on the head device. I still run the old xd it 
still updates, the apps still update, it's got the supported dev channels. 
That's probably one of the most elegantly perfect pieces of electronic in my 
home


  On Oct 16, 2016 10:49 AM, "Bill Prince"  wrote:

The problem with whatever app is on the TV (or if there is an app), is that 
if the TV is more than 1 year old, it will never be updated again.

The Netflix app on our (now) 5 year old LG is a poor example of how Netflix 
should actually work (or any of the online streaming services for that matter). 
I didn't realize how poor until we installed a ROKU 2, and found out what a 
reasonably modern implementation looked like.



bp


On 10/15/2016 10:10 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote:

  In your experience, does it help if the customer goes through the 
procedure to update the app on the smart TV?



  Most of the smart TVs we run into seem to be Samsung.  I know a lot of 
the early ones also didn’t seem to play well with certain WiFi routers.

Re: [AFMUG] OT. Trump's supporters talk rebellion, assassination at his rallies

[Ken Hohhof]

You do realize Stefan is in Germany, right?

 

Or maybe you are referring to the international cabal?

 

 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Rory Conaway
Sent: Sunday, October 16, 2016 1:50 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT. Trump's supporters talk rebellion, assassination at 
his rallies

 

Would that be all the papers that met with the Clinton Campaign to organize the 
message?  They left serious new journalism a long time ago.  Wikieleaks is a 
pain that way, showing the truth and all that.  The only ones the Clinton 
Campaign didn’t invite was Fox.  

 

Rory

 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Stefan Englhardt
Sent: Saturday, October 15, 2016 10:07 PM
To: af@afmug.com  
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT. Trump's supporters talk rebellion, assassination at 
his rallies

 

Bild is no paper you should take as reference. It is just big letters and made 
for people who barely could read but don't understand.

But serious papers don't like Trump, too. Trump does give a very bad picture of 
US to other nations. 



 Ursprüngliche Nachricht 
Von: Ken Hohhof mailto:af...@kwisp.com> > 
Datum: 16.10.2016 03:48 (GMT+01:00) 
An: af@afmug.com   
Betreff: Re: [AFMUG] OT. Trump's supporters talk rebellion, assassination at 
his rallies 

Re: [AFMUG] "buffering"

[Josh Reynolds]

Roku and FireTV are the best, by far. Roku has more channels, firetv has
more app capability (android).

AppleTV streams like shit compared to those two.

On Oct 16, 2016 11:20 AM, "That One Guy /sarcasm" 
wrote:

> Roku is just an amazing nail on the head device. I still run the old xd it
> still updates, the apps still update, it's got the supported dev channels.
> That's probably one of the most elegantly perfect pieces of electronic in
> my home
>
> On Oct 16, 2016 10:49 AM, "Bill Prince"  wrote:
>
>> The problem with whatever app is on the TV (or if there is an app), is
>> that if the TV is more than 1 year old, it will never be updated again.
>>
>> The Netflix app on our (now) 5 year old LG is a poor example of how
>> Netflix should actually work (or any of the online streaming services for
>> that matter). I didn't realize how poor until we installed a ROKU 2, and
>> found out what a reasonably modern implementation looked like.
>>
>>
>> bp
>> 
>>
>>
>> On 10/15/2016 10:10 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
>>
>> In your experience, does it help if the customer goes through the
>> procedure to update the app on the smart TV?
>>
>>
>>
>> Most of the smart TVs we run into seem to be Samsung.  I know a lot of
>> the early ones also didn’t seem to play well with certain WiFi routers.
>>
>>
>>

Re: [AFMUG] OT. Trump's supporters talk rebellion, assassination at his rallies

[Josh Reynolds]

Agreed

On Oct 16, 2016 2:53 PM,  wrote:

> No, FOX=CNN-MSNBC
>
> *From:* Sean Heskett
> *Sent:* Sunday, October 16, 2016 1:43 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT. Trump's supporters talk rebellion,
> assassination at his rallies
>
> So FOX/CNN = MSNBC ???
>
>
>
> On Sunday, October 16, 2016,  wrote:
>
>> FOX + MSNBC = CNN
>>
>> *From:* Lewis Bergman
>> *Sent:* Sunday, October 16, 2016 1:35 PM
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT. Trump's supporters talk rebellion,
>> assassination at his rallies
>>
>> Sadly, as much as any of them are now.
>>
>> On Sun, Oct 16, 2016 at 2:25 PM That One Guy /sarcasm <
>> thatoneguyst...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Was fox ever an actual news entity?
>>>
>>> On Oct 16, 2016 1:50 PM, "Rory Conaway"  wrote:
>>>
 Would that be all the papers that met with the Clinton Campaign to
 organize the message?  They left serious new journalism a long time ago.
 Wikieleaks is a pain that way, showing the truth and all that.  The only
 ones the Clinton Campaign didn’t invite was Fox.



 Rory



 *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Stefan
 Englhardt
 *Sent:* Saturday, October 15, 2016 10:07 PM
 *To:* af@afmug.com
 *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT. Trump's supporters talk rebellion,
 assassination at his rallies



 Bild is no paper you should take as reference. It is just big letters
 and made for people who barely could read but don't understand.

 But serious papers don't like Trump, too. Trump does give a very bad
 picture of US to other nations.



  Ursprüngliche Nachricht 
 Von: Ken Hohhof 
 Datum: 16.10.2016 03:48 (GMT+01:00)
 An: af@afmug.com
 Betreff: Re: [AFMUG] OT. Trump's supporters talk rebellion,
 assassination at his rallies

>>>

Re: [AFMUG] OT. Trump's supporters talk rebellion, assassination at his rallies

[CBB - Jay Fuller]

Yes. Agree. 

Sent from my Verizon 4G LTE Smartphone

- Reply message -
From: ch...@wbmfg.com
To: 
Subject: [AFMUG] OT. Trump's supporters talk rebellion, assassination at his 
rallies
Date: Sun, Oct 16, 2016 2:42 PM

FOX + MSNBC = CNN




From: Lewis Bergman 
Sent: Sunday, October 16, 2016 1:35 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT. Trump's supporters talk rebellion, 
assassination at his rallies


Sadly, as much as any of them are now.


On Sun, Oct 16, 2016 at 2:25 PM That One Guy /sarcasm 
 wrote:

Was fox ever an actual news entity?


On Oct 16, 2016 1:50 PM, "Rory Conaway" 
 wrote:



Would 
that be all the papers that met with the Clinton Campaign to organize the 
message?  They left serious new journalism a long time ago.  
Wikieleaks is a pain that way, showing the truth and all that.  The 
only ones the Clinton Campaign didn’t invite was Fox.  

Rory



From: 
Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Stefan EnglhardtSent: Saturday, 
October 15, 2016 10:07 PMTo: af@afmug.comSubject: Re: [AFMUG] OT. Trump's 
supporters talk 
rebellion, assassination at his rallies


Bild is no paper you should take as
reference. It is just big letters and made for people who barely could read 
but don't understand.

But serious papers don't like Trump, too. 
Trump does give a very bad picture of US to other nations. 
 Ursprüngliche Nachricht 
Von: Ken Hohhof  Datum: 16.10.2016 
03:48 (GMT+01:00) An: af@afmug.com Betreff: Re: [AFMUG] OT. 
Trump's supporters talk rebellion, assassination at his rallies

[AFMUG] OT Movie Review

[chuck]

The Accountant

I enjoyed it.  I think they are trying to create another Bourne type of thing.  
Critics were split on it but it was worth the money for me.  

Re: [AFMUG] 3.65 licensing

[Mike Hammett]

Agreed. WISPA provides no shortage of education on and regulatory updates. Pay 
attention. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Sean Heskett"  
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Sunday, October 16, 2016 2:37:07 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 3.65 licensing 

Continue with business as usual the only difference is everything registered 
after 4/17/15 does not get protection once the CBRS SAS system gets going 
(probably late 2017 or 2018). 


After 4/17/2020 everything has to talk to the SAS. 


There's more to it obviously but that's the cliff notes version. There have 
been many WISPA webinars and they had 2 sessions about it at WISPAPALOOZA. 




-Sean 


On Sunday, October 16, 2016, Philip Rankin < wireless...@gmail.com > wrote: 



Can one of you point me to a comprehensive description of the current rules for 
3.65? With a NN license, can we add APs, or CPE's legally still? 


What's supposed to happen to our NN licenses? 


Amy guidance is appreciated. 


-- 


Philip J. Rankin 
Wireless Telecommunications Services 
PO Box 24 
Pittsburg, KS 66762 

Re: [AFMUG] OT. Trump's supporters talk rebellion, assassination at his rallies

[chuck]

No, FOX=CNN-MSNBC

From: Sean Heskett 
Sent: Sunday, October 16, 2016 1:43 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT. Trump's supporters talk rebellion, assassination at 
his rallies

So FOX/CNN = MSNBC ??? 



On Sunday, October 16, 2016,  wrote:

  FOX + MSNBC = CNN

  From: Lewis Bergman 
  Sent: Sunday, October 16, 2016 1:35 PM
  To: af@afmug.com 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT. Trump's supporters talk rebellion, assassination at 
his rallies

  Sadly, as much as any of them are now.

  On Sun, Oct 16, 2016 at 2:25 PM That One Guy /sarcasm 
 wrote:

Was fox ever an actual news entity?


On Oct 16, 2016 1:50 PM, "Rory Conaway"  wrote:

  Would that be all the papers that met with the Clinton Campaign to 
organize the message?  They left serious new journalism a long time ago.  
Wikieleaks is a pain that way, showing the truth and all that.  The only ones 
the Clinton Campaign didn’t invite was Fox.  



  Rory



  From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Stefan Englhardt
  Sent: Saturday, October 15, 2016 10:07 PM
  To: af@afmug.com
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT. Trump's supporters talk rebellion, assassination 
at his rallies



  Bild is no paper you should take as reference. It is just big letters and 
made for people who barely could read but don't understand.

  But serious papers don't like Trump, too. Trump does give a very bad 
picture of US to other nations. 



   Ursprüngliche Nachricht 
  Von: Ken Hohhof  
  Datum: 16.10.2016 03:48 (GMT+01:00) 
  An: af@afmug.com 
  Betreff: Re: [AFMUG] OT. Trump's supporters talk rebellion, assassination 
at his rallies 

Re: [AFMUG] OT. Trump's supporters talk rebellion, assassination at his rallies

[Jaime Solorza]

Where is Walter Cronkite?   Lou Dobbs, Hannity... And the like suck...

On Oct 16, 2016 1:42 PM,  wrote:

> FOX + MSNBC = CNN
>
> *From:* Lewis Bergman
> *Sent:* Sunday, October 16, 2016 1:35 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT. Trump's supporters talk rebellion,
> assassination at his rallies
>
> Sadly, as much as any of them are now.
>
> On Sun, Oct 16, 2016 at 2:25 PM That One Guy /sarcasm <
> thatoneguyst...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Was fox ever an actual news entity?
>>
>> On Oct 16, 2016 1:50 PM, "Rory Conaway"  wrote:
>>
>> Would that be all the papers that met with the Clinton Campaign to
>> organize the message?  They left serious new journalism a long time ago.
>> Wikieleaks is a pain that way, showing the truth and all that.  The only
>> ones the Clinton Campaign didn’t invite was Fox.
>>
>>
>>
>> Rory
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Stefan Englhardt
>> *Sent:* Saturday, October 15, 2016 10:07 PM
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT. Trump's supporters talk rebellion,
>> assassination at his rallies
>>
>>
>>
>> Bild is no paper you should take as reference. It is just big letters and
>> made for people who barely could read but don't understand.
>>
>> But serious papers don't like Trump, too. Trump does give a very bad
>> picture of US to other nations.
>>
>>
>>
>>  Ursprüngliche Nachricht 
>> Von: Ken Hohhof 
>> Datum: 16.10.2016 03:48 (GMT+01:00)
>> An: af@afmug.com
>> Betreff: Re: [AFMUG] OT. Trump's supporters talk rebellion, assassination
>> at his rallies
>>
>>

Re: [AFMUG] OT. Trump's supporters talk rebellion, assassination at his rallies

[Sean Heskett]

So FOX/CNN = MSNBC ???



On Sunday, October 16, 2016,  wrote:

> FOX + MSNBC = CNN
>
> *From:* Lewis Bergman
> *Sent:* Sunday, October 16, 2016 1:35 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT. Trump's supporters talk rebellion,
> assassination at his rallies
>
> Sadly, as much as any of them are now.
>
> On Sun, Oct 16, 2016 at 2:25 PM That One Guy /sarcasm <
> thatoneguyst...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Was fox ever an actual news entity?
>>
>> On Oct 16, 2016 1:50 PM, "Rory Conaway"  wrote:
>>
>>> Would that be all the papers that met with the Clinton Campaign to
>>> organize the message?  They left serious new journalism a long time ago.
>>> Wikieleaks is a pain that way, showing the truth and all that.  The only
>>> ones the Clinton Campaign didn’t invite was Fox.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Rory
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Stefan Englhardt
>>> *Sent:* Saturday, October 15, 2016 10:07 PM
>>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT. Trump's supporters talk rebellion,
>>> assassination at his rallies
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Bild is no paper you should take as reference. It is just big letters
>>> and made for people who barely could read but don't understand.
>>>
>>> But serious papers don't like Trump, too. Trump does give a very bad
>>> picture of US to other nations.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>  Ursprüngliche Nachricht 
>>> Von: Ken Hohhof 
>>> Datum: 16.10.2016 03:48 (GMT+01:00)
>>> An: af@afmug.com
>>> Betreff: Re: [AFMUG] OT. Trump's supporters talk rebellion,
>>> assassination at his rallies
>>>
>>

Re: [AFMUG] OT. Trump's supporters talk rebellion, assassination at his rallies

[chuck]

FOX + MSNBC = CNN

From: Lewis Bergman 
Sent: Sunday, October 16, 2016 1:35 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT. Trump's supporters talk rebellion, assassination at 
his rallies

Sadly, as much as any of them are now.

On Sun, Oct 16, 2016 at 2:25 PM That One Guy /sarcasm 
 wrote:

  Was fox ever an actual news entity?


  On Oct 16, 2016 1:50 PM, "Rory Conaway"  wrote:

Would that be all the papers that met with the Clinton Campaign to organize 
the message?  They left serious new journalism a long time ago.  Wikieleaks is 
a pain that way, showing the truth and all that.  The only ones the Clinton 
Campaign didn’t invite was Fox.  



Rory



From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Stefan Englhardt
Sent: Saturday, October 15, 2016 10:07 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT. Trump's supporters talk rebellion, assassination 
at his rallies



Bild is no paper you should take as reference. It is just big letters and 
made for people who barely could read but don't understand.

But serious papers don't like Trump, too. Trump does give a very bad 
picture of US to other nations. 



 Ursprüngliche Nachricht 
Von: Ken Hohhof  
Datum: 16.10.2016 03:48 (GMT+01:00) 
An: af@afmug.com 
Betreff: Re: [AFMUG] OT. Trump's supporters talk rebellion, assassination 
at his rallies 

Re: [AFMUG] 3.65 licensing

[Sean Heskett]

Continue with business as usual the only difference is everything
registered after 4/17/15 does not get protection once the CBRS SAS system
gets going (probably late 2017 or 2018).

After 4/17/2020 everything has to talk to the SAS.

There's more to it obviously but that's the cliff notes version.  There
have been many WISPA webinars and they had 2 sessions about it at
WISPAPALOOZA.


-Sean


On Sunday, October 16, 2016, Philip Rankin  wrote:

> Can one of you point me to a comprehensive description of the current
> rules for 3.65?  With a NN license, can we add APs, or CPE's legally still?
>
> What's supposed to happen to our NN licenses?
>
> Amy guidance is appreciated.
>
> --
> Philip J. Rankin
> Wireless Telecommunications Services
> PO Box 24
> Pittsburg, KS  66762
>

Re: [AFMUG] OT. Trump's supporters talk rebellion, assassination at his rallies

[Lewis Bergman]

Sadly, as much as any of them are now.

On Sun, Oct 16, 2016 at 2:25 PM That One Guy /sarcasm <
thatoneguyst...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Was fox ever an actual news entity?
>
> On Oct 16, 2016 1:50 PM, "Rory Conaway"  wrote:
>
> Would that be all the papers that met with the Clinton Campaign to
> organize the message?  They left serious new journalism a long time ago.
> Wikieleaks is a pain that way, showing the truth and all that.  The only
> ones the Clinton Campaign didn’t invite was Fox.
>
>
>
> Rory
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Stefan Englhardt
> *Sent:* Saturday, October 15, 2016 10:07 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT. Trump's supporters talk rebellion,
> assassination at his rallies
>
>
>
> Bild is no paper you should take as reference. It is just big letters and
> made for people who barely could read but don't understand.
>
> But serious papers don't like Trump, too. Trump does give a very bad
> picture of US to other nations.
>
>
>
>  Ursprüngliche Nachricht 
> Von: Ken Hohhof 
> Datum: 16.10.2016 03:48 (GMT+01:00)
> An: af@afmug.com
> Betreff: Re: [AFMUG] OT. Trump's supporters talk rebellion, assassination
> at his rallies
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] 3.65 licensing

[That One Guy /sarcasm]

You're just going to get pointed to filings, not what you're looking for

On Oct 16, 2016 1:59 PM, "Philip Rankin"  wrote:

> Can one of you point me to a comprehensive description of the current
> rules for 3.65?  With a NN license, can we add APs, or CPE's legally still?
>
> What's supposed to happen to our NN licenses?
>
> Amy guidance is appreciated.
>
> --
> Philip J. Rankin
> Wireless Telecommunications Services
> PO Box 24
> Pittsburg, KS  66762
>

Re: [AFMUG] OT. Trump's supporters talk rebellion, assassination at his rallies

[That One Guy /sarcasm]

Was fox ever an actual news entity?

On Oct 16, 2016 1:50 PM, "Rory Conaway"  wrote:

> Would that be all the papers that met with the Clinton Campaign to
> organize the message?  They left serious new journalism a long time ago.
> Wikieleaks is a pain that way, showing the truth and all that.  The only
> ones the Clinton Campaign didn’t invite was Fox.
>
>
>
> Rory
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Stefan Englhardt
> *Sent:* Saturday, October 15, 2016 10:07 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT. Trump's supporters talk rebellion,
> assassination at his rallies
>
>
>
> Bild is no paper you should take as reference. It is just big letters and
> made for people who barely could read but don't understand.
>
> But serious papers don't like Trump, too. Trump does give a very bad
> picture of US to other nations.
>
>
>
>  Ursprüngliche Nachricht 
> Von: Ken Hohhof 
> Datum: 16.10.2016 03:48 (GMT+01:00)
> An: af@afmug.com
> Betreff: Re: [AFMUG] OT. Trump's supporters talk rebellion, assassination
> at his rallies
>

[AFMUG] 3.65 licensing

[Philip Rankin]

Can one of you point me to a comprehensive description of the current rules
for 3.65?  With a NN license, can we add APs, or CPE's legally still?

What's supposed to happen to our NN licenses?

Amy guidance is appreciated.

-- 
Philip J. Rankin
Wireless Telecommunications Services
PO Box 24
Pittsburg, KS  66762

Re: [AFMUG] OT. Trump's supporters talk rebellion, assassination at his rallies

[Rory Conaway]

Would that be all the papers that met with the Clinton Campaign to organize the 
message?  They left serious new journalism a long time ago.  Wikieleaks is a 
pain that way, showing the truth and all that.  The only ones the Clinton 
Campaign didn’t invite was Fox.

Rory

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Stefan Englhardt
Sent: Saturday, October 15, 2016 10:07 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT. Trump's supporters talk rebellion, assassination at 
his rallies

Bild is no paper you should take as reference. It is just big letters and made 
for people who barely could read but don't understand.
But serious papers don't like Trump, too. Trump does give a very bad picture of 
US to other nations.


 Ursprüngliche Nachricht 
Von: Ken Hohhof mailto:af...@kwisp.com>>
Datum: 16.10.2016 03:48 (GMT+01:00)
An: af@afmug.com
Betreff: Re: [AFMUG] OT. Trump's supporters talk rebellion, assassination at 
his rallies

Re: [AFMUG] Fw: Alcoma - New 80 GHz - Highest Transmit Power

[Rory Conaway]

I sent them an email to get full specs and pricing.  I suspect with a 2’ dish, 
1.5 miles should be attainable.

Rory

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Chuck McCown
Sent: Saturday, October 15, 2016 11:09 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: [AFMUG] Fw: Alcoma - New 80 GHz - Highest Transmit Power

Just got this.  10^-12 BER?  80 GHz?  For how far, quarter mile but only when 
the sun is shining?

From: STEVE MARKS
Sent: Saturday, October 15, 2016 11:54 AM
To: alc...@rfdatacom.com
Subject: Alcoma - New 80 GHz - Highest Transmit Power

ALCOMA Microwave releases a new high transmit power 80 GHz radio – 2.5 Gbps 
Full Duplex

[cid:image003.jpg@01D1E9A9.B5ABE020]


-  Best Price

-  Best Warranty – Best Support

-  2.5 Gbps Full Duplex (5 Gbps aggregate bandwidth)

-  Meets RFC-2544 Carrier Grade Standards

-  High Transmit Power

o   Some manufacturers provide a “link budget”. What does that mean? Simple, 
they won’t disclose true Tx power and attempt to hide the numbers in the 
receive sensitivity. Easy to guess why they won’t provide Tx power in product 
specifications.

o   Alcoma provides an accurate online path calculator with Tx power – many 
competitors won’t – what are they afraid of? Maybe an accurate path analysis 
that demonstrates their radios seldom achieve “advertised bandwidth”.

Don’t be fooled by competitors telling half-truths and hiding important 
specifications. Be careful when buying a radio that doesn’t meet RFC-2544 
standards or that measures BER at 10-6. Alcoma measures BER at 10-12.

ALCOMA manufacturers carrier/military grade radios that perform to the highest 
standards…and at the BEST PRICE! ALCOMA delivers complete specifications – not 
smoke and mirrors like some competitors.

And, if you’re interested in licensed radios 6/11/18 or 24 GHz unlicensed, 
ALCOMA offers carrier/military grade links with antennas starting at $3995 – 
yes, a complete licensed link.

Please contact RF Datacom to receive a copy of Alcoma’s 2016 Pricing Guide and 
Product Specifications

Steve Marks
Regional Manager
www.rfdatacom.com
[Description: new logo matt]






[Avast logo]


This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
www.avast.com

Re: [AFMUG] OT - ladder safety

[Mathew Howard]

Looks fine to me...

On Oct 16, 2016 11:01 AM, "Jaime Solorza"  wrote:

> Yikes
>
> On Oct 16, 2016 9:53 AM, "Robert"  wrote:
>
>> That there should be the picture on the Darwin Award Trophy...
>>
>> On 10/16/16 8:02 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
>>
>>> Saw this on the Internet.  I guess OSHA doesn�t apply to homeowners.
>>>
>>>

Re: [AFMUG] OT - ladder safety

[Robert Andrews]

I thought it was going to be "watch this"

On 10/16/2016 10:59 AM, That One Guy /sarcasm wrote:

Here, hold my beer, said the guy on the ladder to the cameraman just prior


On Oct 16, 2016 11:01 AM, "Jaime Solorza" mailto:losguyswirel...@gmail.com>> wrote:

Yikes


On Oct 16, 2016 9:53 AM, "Robert" mailto:i...@avantwireless.com>> wrote:

That there should be the picture on the Darwin Award Trophy...

On 10/16/16 8:02 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote:

Saw this on the Internet.  I guess OSHA doesn�t apply to
homeowners.

Re: [AFMUG] OT - ladder safety

[That One Guy /sarcasm]

Here, hold my beer, said the guy on the ladder to the cameraman just prior

On Oct 16, 2016 11:01 AM, "Jaime Solorza"  wrote:

> Yikes
>
> On Oct 16, 2016 9:53 AM, "Robert"  wrote:
>
>> That there should be the picture on the Darwin Award Trophy...
>>
>> On 10/16/16 8:02 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
>>
>>> Saw this on the Internet.  I guess OSHA doesn�t apply to homeowners.
>>>
>>>

Re: [AFMUG] "buffering"

[Mike Hammett]

AFAIK. It is Level 3 now and I seem to recall it being Level 3 then too. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Joe Novak"  
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Sunday, October 16, 2016 11:47:50 AM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] "buffering" 


Have they been using them since they started the streaming product? 


On Oct 16, 2016 11:44 AM, "Mike Hammett" < af...@ics-il.net > wrote: 




DirecTV's CDN is Level 3. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 






From: "Joe Novak" < jno...@lrcomm.com > 
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Saturday, October 15, 2016 11:59:14 AM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] "buffering" 


In a lot of the early smart TVs - even some of the new ones - the netflix 
'smart' modulation did not work well if at all. The Roku's and streaming boxes 
usually have perfect support for it. Hulu seems to do good too. Direct TV has 
shit poor bandwidth management, and poor peering as far as we could tell. 


On Sat, Oct 15, 2016 at 11:52 AM, Ken Hohhof < af...@kwisp.com > wrote: 





The most recent customer I think I’ve gotten to clarify the video is actually 
stopping and starting. Previously he was saying it took a long time to buffer 
but was fine once the picture appeared. That’s what got me to thinking the 
latest complaint was impatience with how long it took before the video started 
playing, not problems while it was playing. The next challenge is to find out 
what streaming service he is using, people tend to call them all “Netflix”. But 
I rarely hear about Netflix stopping to buffer because Netflix can switch 
stream rates on the fly, if it’s actually Netflix and it is stopping and 
starting, in my experience it’s usually something other than just slow 
Internet. Like WiFi dropping out, or packet loss, or a Windows 10 download 
overloading the connection. 

We have transitioned to the point where people sit down in front of their 
“smart TV” and expect to watch TV, who knows what streaming service, but there 
is only one answer if it doesn’t work like old fashioned TV – your Internet is 
too slow. I had a customer call because she couldn’t watch an online class on 
her computer which was telling her “you are not connected to a network”, and 
there was an airplane symbol in the lower right. Tech support for the online 
college told her that meant her Internet was too slow. I was tempted to tell 
her the airplane symbol actually meant her Internet was really fast (it’s 
flying), otherwise it would show a car or a turtle. 




From: Af [mailto: af-boun...@afmug.com ] On Behalf Of Chuck McCown 
Sent: Saturday, October 15, 2016 10:29 AM 
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] "buffering" 




I presume the circle thing is spinning when people say buffering. 






From: Ken Hohhof 

Sent: Friday, October 14, 2016 8:34 PM 

To: af@afmug.com 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] "buffering" 



But that’s not what I’m talking about. I’m wondering if when a customer talks 
about “buffering”, he really means having to wait for the video to start 
playing. 

And maybe I’m confused because I assume everyone is using Netflix. And I’m 
pretty sure Netflix starts the stream at a low quality so it starts quickly, 
and then ramps up the quality as the buffer fills, since their technology 
allows changing the stream quality on the fly. Other services like maybe Hulu 
and Amazon Prime may behave differently. 

Also with my default assumption that people are using Netflix, I don’t expect 
rebuffering because it’s been years since Netflix needed to stop and rebuffer 
at a lower stream rate, I think they do that pretty seamlessly now. 


From: Af [ mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com ] On Behalf Of Mathew Howard 
Sent: Friday, October 14, 2016 9:09 PM 
To: af < af@afmug.com > 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] "buffering" 



Well, people certainly want connections that support multiple streams. Paying 
for it, I'm not so sure about... at least around these parts. 



On Fri, Oct 14, 2016 at 8:52 PM, Eric Kuhnke < eric.kuh...@gmail.com > wrote: 




Have you ever seen a 1080p youtube video load on a 1GbE active-E FTTH ISP that 
has direct peering with Google from a router 2.5ms upstream? It's a beautiful 
thing. 
People will absolutely pay for connections that support multiple streams, take 
a typical family of 4 or 5 people with kids that want to watch videos on 
tablets simultaneously... 





On Fri, Oct 14, 2016 at 6:49 PM, Ken Hohhof < af...@kwisp.com > wrote: 




When people say their video is “buffering”, I assume they mean re-buffering, 
where the video stops and starts. 

I’m starting to wonder if some people are referring to the delay before the 
video starts playing. Is this a thing? And do people pay for faster Internet 
just to make the video start faster, like cut 15-20 seconds down to 5 or 10 
seconds? 

Re: [AFMUG] "buffering"

[Mike Hammett]

Better antenna technology. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Nate Burke"  
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Saturday, October 15, 2016 4:26:47 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] "buffering" 

I think customers for the most part still associate 'big' and 'heavy' with 
Quality. I was just a customers house this week where he took out a 951 I was 
providing (for free) to put in a giant linksys $300 router. But now he says his 
wifi works down the street and around the corner. I find that hard to believe, 
but it's physically much bigger than the 951, so it must be much better... 
Maybe we should start going back to like 8 pound power bricks the size of a 
desktop computer. Then our internet would be better than comcast. 




On 10/15/2016 3:11 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote: 




Pretty much the same here. Lease a managed router from us for $5/month, or if 
you buy one at the store head for the $70 to $100 price range. Less they 
probably cut corners, more and you’re probably wasting money. 

Our leased routers are Mikrotik 951G, we just got some hAP AC in to consider as 
a dual band AC solution. We like the ability to manage the Mikrotik routers but 
they don’t really give us a solution for customers who want a fancy router, or 
to take management to the next level (application level QoS, customer 
dashboard). The answer for that is probably Calix, but our customer base mostly 
shops at WalMart and Dollar General, I’m not sure we have enough demand for a 
Calix class router. There are a few who would want something like that, but 
it’s probably well under 5%, unless we subsidize them. 

I only push the leased routers so hard, actually I think it’s a better deal for 
the customer than for us, if they want to buy a router and hope it lasts 5 
years they are welcome to. Unfortunately this means the people taking the 
leased router may be the people who just don’t have the money to buy a router 
we’ll be shutting them off for nonpayment in a couple months and trying to get 
our router back. 



From: Af [ mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com ] On Behalf Of Joe Novak 
Sent: Saturday, October 15, 2016 1:31 PM 
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] "buffering" 


What are you recommending on routers now Ken? 



Our spiel usually includes netgear and spend no more then 100$. Especially for 
the people on the 3mbit and 5mbit plans. We've been doing good at converting 
these people that don't want to mess with it to our rental router. (Zyxel 
2.4ghz) for 5/month. 



On Sat, Oct 15, 2016 at 1:23 PM, Ken Hohhof < af...@kwisp.com > wrote: 




I’m still waiting to run into a customer with a media library to justify the 
$400 WiFi router some kid in the store sold them so they could have 
multigigabit WiFi in their house. Cuz if your only source of content is your 25 
Mbps Internet connection, I’m missing why you need that AC5300 router. And 
honestly, if I had a media center with locally stored content streaming 4K 
video around the house, I’d figure a way to run a cable to the big screens. Why 
spend all that money and then cheap out by using WiFi, especially since that 60 
inch TV isn’t exactly portable unless it’s on wheels. 


From: Af [mailto: af-boun...@afmug.com ] On Behalf Of Joe Novak 
Sent: Saturday, October 15, 2016 1:09 PM 



To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] "buffering" 




It makes me sad that Kodi got associated with all of the nonsense. It's a 
beautiful media center front end. I actually just got a 'NexBox' in that runs 
android, outputs 4K, which I can't do with my current media center setup. I've 
been excited to play around with it. 







On Sat, Oct 15, 2016 at 1:05 PM, Ken Hohhof < af...@kwisp.com > wrote: 




And the people with the Kodi boxes, usually the people who barely know how to 
use a computer, are they answering ads in the back of magazines or something? 
They seem to expect something like the analog TV converter boxes, you plug it 
in and get free live TV. Must be legal because I bought a box. And for tech 
support, call your ISP. 


From: Af [mailto: af-boun...@afmug.com ] On Behalf Of That One Guy /sarcasm 
Sent: Saturday, October 15, 2016 12:54 PM 



To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] "buffering" 



Don't forget these rooted amazon firesticks are dominating right now. I won't 
offer any support for any issue unless it's a vanilla stick. These things are 
blatantly illegal like the black box descramblers for satellite days. 
People are dropping malicious operating systems in the middle of their trusted 
network left and right for "free" tv. God only knows what iot bot net activity 
is also causing their xhamster buffering 



On Oct 15, 2016 12:48 PM, "Chuck McCown" < ch...@wbmfg.com > wrote: 






I read the word “Netflix” and my brain received “Netscape”. Talk about a 
confusing moment... 






From: CBB - Jay Fuller 

Sent: Saturday, October 15, 2016 11:33 AM 

To: af@afmug.com 

Subject:

Re: [AFMUG] "buffering"

[Mike Hammett]

The same reason TV sticks suck is why the 951 sucks. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Nate Burke"  
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Saturday, October 15, 2016 4:26:47 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] "buffering" 

I think customers for the most part still associate 'big' and 'heavy' with 
Quality. I was just a customers house this week where he took out a 951 I was 
providing (for free) to put in a giant linksys $300 router. But now he says his 
wifi works down the street and around the corner. I find that hard to believe, 
but it's physically much bigger than the 951, so it must be much better... 
Maybe we should start going back to like 8 pound power bricks the size of a 
desktop computer. Then our internet would be better than comcast. 




On 10/15/2016 3:11 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote: 




Pretty much the same here. Lease a managed router from us for $5/month, or if 
you buy one at the store head for the $70 to $100 price range. Less they 
probably cut corners, more and you’re probably wasting money. 

Our leased routers are Mikrotik 951G, we just got some hAP AC in to consider as 
a dual band AC solution. We like the ability to manage the Mikrotik routers but 
they don’t really give us a solution for customers who want a fancy router, or 
to take management to the next level (application level QoS, customer 
dashboard). The answer for that is probably Calix, but our customer base mostly 
shops at WalMart and Dollar General, I’m not sure we have enough demand for a 
Calix class router. There are a few who would want something like that, but 
it’s probably well under 5%, unless we subsidize them. 

I only push the leased routers so hard, actually I think it’s a better deal for 
the customer than for us, if they want to buy a router and hope it lasts 5 
years they are welcome to. Unfortunately this means the people taking the 
leased router may be the people who just don’t have the money to buy a router 
we’ll be shutting them off for nonpayment in a couple months and trying to get 
our router back. 



From: Af [ mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com ] On Behalf Of Joe Novak 
Sent: Saturday, October 15, 2016 1:31 PM 
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] "buffering" 


What are you recommending on routers now Ken? 



Our spiel usually includes netgear and spend no more then 100$. Especially for 
the people on the 3mbit and 5mbit plans. We've been doing good at converting 
these people that don't want to mess with it to our rental router. (Zyxel 
2.4ghz) for 5/month. 



On Sat, Oct 15, 2016 at 1:23 PM, Ken Hohhof < af...@kwisp.com > wrote: 




I’m still waiting to run into a customer with a media library to justify the 
$400 WiFi router some kid in the store sold them so they could have 
multigigabit WiFi in their house. Cuz if your only source of content is your 25 
Mbps Internet connection, I’m missing why you need that AC5300 router. And 
honestly, if I had a media center with locally stored content streaming 4K 
video around the house, I’d figure a way to run a cable to the big screens. Why 
spend all that money and then cheap out by using WiFi, especially since that 60 
inch TV isn’t exactly portable unless it’s on wheels. 


From: Af [mailto: af-boun...@afmug.com ] On Behalf Of Joe Novak 
Sent: Saturday, October 15, 2016 1:09 PM 



To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] "buffering" 




It makes me sad that Kodi got associated with all of the nonsense. It's a 
beautiful media center front end. I actually just got a 'NexBox' in that runs 
android, outputs 4K, which I can't do with my current media center setup. I've 
been excited to play around with it. 







On Sat, Oct 15, 2016 at 1:05 PM, Ken Hohhof < af...@kwisp.com > wrote: 




And the people with the Kodi boxes, usually the people who barely know how to 
use a computer, are they answering ads in the back of magazines or something? 
They seem to expect something like the analog TV converter boxes, you plug it 
in and get free live TV. Must be legal because I bought a box. And for tech 
support, call your ISP. 


From: Af [mailto: af-boun...@afmug.com ] On Behalf Of That One Guy /sarcasm 
Sent: Saturday, October 15, 2016 12:54 PM 



To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] "buffering" 



Don't forget these rooted amazon firesticks are dominating right now. I won't 
offer any support for any issue unless it's a vanilla stick. These things are 
blatantly illegal like the black box descramblers for satellite days. 
People are dropping malicious operating systems in the middle of their trusted 
network left and right for "free" tv. God only knows what iot bot net activity 
is also causing their xhamster buffering 



On Oct 15, 2016 12:48 PM, "Chuck McCown" < ch...@wbmfg.com > wrote: 






I read the word “Netflix” and my brain received “Netscape”. Talk about a 
confusing moment... 






From: CBB - Jay Fuller 

Sent: Saturday, October 15, 2016 11:33 AM 

T

Re: [AFMUG] "buffering"

[Mike Hammett]

Mikrotik's inside wireless has a lot of advantages, but RF performance is not 
one of them. Those beastly Best Buy flagships will most likely perform better. 
It isn't because they're faster, but because they have more advanced antennas 
that pull poor signals out of the garbage. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Ken Hohhof"  
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Saturday, October 15, 2016 4:53:36 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] "buffering" 



It depends what you are comparing to. I’ve run into customers with the new 
Belkin designed Linksys AC1750 routers that couldn’t reach 2 rooms away and 
replaced it with a 951G and it beat the pants off the Belksys. 

One other factor is my customers are rural and often cannot see a single other 
SSID, but need range. So giving them a single band 2.4 GHz router often solves 
problems. iPhones seem to think one bar at 5 GHz is better than five bars at 
2.4 GHz. And we all know you get better range in a 20 MHz channel than an 80 
MHz channel, but router manufacturers don’t seem to know that. 

I will say the hAP AC is probably not very competitive at its price point. 


From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Joe Novak 
Sent: Saturday, October 15, 2016 4:36 PM 
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] "buffering" 


Honestly I find the wireless performance underwhelming on the Mikrotik devices 
with integrated antennas. 



On Sat, Oct 15, 2016 at 4:26 PM, Nate Burke < n...@blastcomm.com > wrote: 



I think customers for the most part still associate 'big' and 'heavy' with 
Quality. I was just a customers house this week where he took out a 951 I was 
providing (for free) to put in a giant linksys $300 router. But now he says his 
wifi works down the street and around the corner. I find that hard to believe, 
but it's physically much bigger than the 951, so it must be much better... 
Maybe we should start going back to like 8 pound power bricks the size of a 
desktop computer. Then our internet would be better than comcast. 




On 10/15/2016 3:11 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote: 



Pretty much the same here. Lease a managed router from us for $5/month, or if 
you buy one at the store head for the $70 to $100 price range. Less they 
probably cut corners, more and you’re probably wasting money. 

Our leased routers are Mikrotik 951G, we just got some hAP AC in to consider as 
a dual band AC solution. We like the ability to manage the Mikrotik routers but 
they don’t really give us a solution for customers who want a fancy router, or 
to take management to the next level (application level QoS, customer 
dashboard). The answer for that is probably Calix, but our customer base mostly 
shops at WalMart and Dollar General, I’m not sure we have enough demand for a 
Calix class router. There are a few who would want something like that, but 
it’s probably well under 5%, unless we subsidize them. 

I only push the leased routers so hard, actually I think it’s a better deal for 
the customer than for us, if they want to buy a router and hope it lasts 5 
years they are welcome to. Unfortunately this means the people taking the 
leased router may be the people who just don’t have the money to buy a router 
we’ll be shutting them off for nonpayment in a couple months and trying to get 
our router back. 



From: Af [ mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com ] On Behalf Of Joe Novak 
Sent: Saturday, October 15, 2016 1:31 PM 



To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] "buffering" 




What are you recommending on routers now Ken? 



Our spiel usually includes netgear and spend no more then 100$. Especially for 
the people on the 3mbit and 5mbit plans. We've been doing good at converting 
these people that don't want to mess with it to our rental router. (Zyxel 
2.4ghz) for 5/month. 



On Sat, Oct 15, 2016 at 1:23 PM, Ken Hohhof < af...@kwisp.com > wrote: 




I’m still waiting to run into a customer with a media library to justify the 
$400 WiFi router some kid in the store sold them so they could have 
multigigabit WiFi in their house. Cuz if your only source of content is your 25 
Mbps Internet connection, I’m missing why you need that AC5300 router. And 
honestly, if I had a media center with locally stored content streaming 4K 
video around the house, I’d figure a way to run a cable to the big screens. Why 
spend all that money and then cheap out by using WiFi, especially since that 60 
inch TV isn’t exactly portable unless it’s on wheels. 


From: Af [mailto: af-boun...@afmug.com ] On Behalf Of Joe Novak 
Sent: Saturday, October 15, 2016 1:09 PM 



To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] "buffering" 




It makes me sad that Kodi got associated with all of the nonsense. It's a 
beautiful media center front end. I actually just got a 'NexBox' in that runs 
android, outputs 4K, which I can't do with my current media center setup. I've 
been excited to play around with it. 







On Sat, Oct 15, 2

Re: [AFMUG] "buffering"

[Mike Hammett]

The only things that should be wireless are mobile or portable things (phones, 
tablets, laptops). Everything else should be wired. 


Friends don't let friends run multi-mode. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Josh Reynolds"  
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Saturday, October 15, 2016 1:28:43 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] "buffering" 


Running cable takes work and people are lazy. 
(I have a bunch of OM4 I need to run and 2 boxes of cat6 sitting there, so I 
can't really say crap!) 


On Oct 15, 2016 1:23 PM, "Ken Hohhof" < af...@kwisp.com > wrote: 





I’m still waiting to run into a customer with a media library to justify the 
$400 WiFi router some kid in the store sold them so they could have 
multigigabit WiFi in their house. Cuz if your only source of content is your 25 
Mbps Internet connection, I’m missing why you need that AC5300 router. And 
honestly, if I had a media center with locally stored content streaming 4K 
video around the house, I’d figure a way to run a cable to the big screens. Why 
spend all that money and then cheap out by using WiFi, especially since that 60 
inch TV isn’t exactly portable unless it’s on wheels. 


From: Af [mailto: af-boun...@afmug.com ] On Behalf Of Joe Novak 
Sent: Saturday, October 15, 2016 1:09 PM 
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] "buffering" 


It makes me sad that Kodi got associated with all of the nonsense. It's a 
beautiful media center front end. I actually just got a 'NexBox' in that runs 
android, outputs 4K, which I can't do with my current media center setup. I've 
been excited to play around with it. 







On Sat, Oct 15, 2016 at 1:05 PM, Ken Hohhof < af...@kwisp.com > wrote: 




And the people with the Kodi boxes, usually the people who barely know how to 
use a computer, are they answering ads in the back of magazines or something? 
They seem to expect something like the analog TV converter boxes, you plug it 
in and get free live TV. Must be legal because I bought a box. And for tech 
support, call your ISP. 


From: Af [mailto: af-boun...@afmug.com ] On Behalf Of That One Guy /sarcasm 
Sent: Saturday, October 15, 2016 12:54 PM 



To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] "buffering" 



Don't forget these rooted amazon firesticks are dominating right now. I won't 
offer any support for any issue unless it's a vanilla stick. These things are 
blatantly illegal like the black box descramblers for satellite days. 
People are dropping malicious operating systems in the middle of their trusted 
network left and right for "free" tv. God only knows what iot bot net activity 
is also causing their xhamster buffering 



On Oct 15, 2016 12:48 PM, "Chuck McCown" < ch...@wbmfg.com > wrote: 






I read the word “Netflix” and my brain received “Netscape”. Talk about a 
confusing moment... 






From: CBB - Jay Fuller 

Sent: Saturday, October 15, 2016 11:33 AM 

To: af@afmug.com 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] "buffering" 







I have a smart tv that works fine but won't update. It is an earlier Netflix 
interface but I actually like it better than the modern interface. 



Sent from my Verizon 4G LTE Smartphone 



- Reply message - 
From: "Ken Hohhof" < af...@kwisp.com > 
To: < af@afmug.com > 
Subject: [AFMUG] "buffering" 
Date: Sat, Oct 15, 2016 12:10 PM 



In your experience, does it help if the customer goes through the procedure to 
update the app on the smart TV? 

Most of the smart TVs we run into seem to be Samsung. I know a lot of the early 
ones also didn’t seem to play well with certain WiFi routers. 



From: Af [mailto: af-boun...@afmug.com ] On Behalf Of Joe Novak 
Sent: Saturday, October 15, 2016 11:59 AM 
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] "buffering" 


In a lot of the early smart TVs - even some of the new ones - the netflix 
'smart' modulation did not work well if at all. The Roku's and streaming boxes 
usually have perfect support for it. Hulu seems to do good too. Direct TV has 
shit poor bandwidth management, and poor peering as far as we could tell. 



On Sat, Oct 15, 2016 at 11:52 AM, Ken Hohhof < af...@kwisp.com > wrote: 




The most recent customer I think I’ve gotten to clarify the video is actually 
stopping and starting. Previously he was saying it took a long time to buffer 
but was fine once the picture appeared. That’s what got me to thinking the 
latest complaint was impatience with how long it took before the video started 
playing, not problems while it was playing. The next challenge is to find out 
what streaming service he is using, people tend to call them all “Netflix”. But 
I rarely hear about Netflix stopping to buffer because Netflix can switch 
stream rates on the fly, if it’s actually Netflix and it is stopping and 
starting, in my experience it’s usually something other than just slow 
Internet. Like WiFi dropping out, or packet loss, or a Windows 10 download 
overloading the connection.

Re: [AFMUG] "buffering"

[Joe Novak]

Have they been using them since they started the streaming product?

On Oct 16, 2016 11:44 AM, "Mike Hammett"  wrote:

> DirecTV's CDN is Level 3.
>
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Midwest Internet Exchange 
> 
> 
> 
> The Brothers WISP 
> 
>
>
> 
> --
> *From: *"Joe Novak" 
> *To: *af@afmug.com
> *Sent: *Saturday, October 15, 2016 11:59:14 AM
> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] "buffering"
>
> In a lot of the early smart TVs - even some of the new ones - the netflix
> 'smart' modulation did not work well if at all. The Roku's and streaming
> boxes usually have perfect support for it. Hulu seems to do good
> too. Direct TV has shit poor bandwidth management, and poor peering as far
> as we could tell.
>
> On Sat, Oct 15, 2016 at 11:52 AM, Ken Hohhof  wrote:
>
>> The most recent customer I think I’ve gotten to clarify the video is
>> actually stopping and starting.  Previously he was saying it took a long
>> time to buffer but was fine once the picture appeared.  That’s what got me
>> to thinking the latest complaint was impatience with how long it took
>> before the video started playing, not problems while it was playing.  The
>> next challenge is to find out what streaming service he is using, people
>> tend to call them all “Netflix”.  But I rarely hear about Netflix stopping
>> to buffer because Netflix can switch stream rates on the fly, if it’s
>> actually Netflix and it is stopping and starting, in my experience it’s
>> usually something other than just slow Internet.  Like WiFi dropping out,
>> or packet loss, or a Windows 10 download overloading the connection.
>>
>>
>>
>> We have transitioned to the point where people sit down in front of their
>> “smart TV” and expect to watch TV, who knows what streaming service, but
>> there is only one answer if it doesn’t work like old fashioned TV – your
>> Internet is too slow.  I had a customer call because she couldn’t watch an
>> online class on her computer which was telling her “you  are  not connected
>> to a network”, and there was an airplane symbol in the lower right.  Tech
>> support for the online college told her that meant her Internet was too
>> slow.  I was tempted to tell her the airplane symbol actually meant her
>> Internet was really fast (it’s flying), otherwise it would show a car or a
>> turtle.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Chuck McCown
>> *Sent:* Saturday, October 15, 2016 10:29 AM
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] "buffering"
>>
>>
>>
>> I presume the circle thing is spinning when people say buffering.
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Ken Hohhof
>>
>> *Sent:* Friday, October 14, 2016 8:34 PM
>>
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>>
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] "buffering"
>>
>>
>>
>> But that’s not what I’m talking about.  I’m wondering if when a customer
>> talks about “buffering”, he really means having to wait for the video to
>> start playing.
>>
>>
>>
>> And maybe I’m confused because I assume everyone is using Netflix.  And
>> I’m pretty sure Netflix starts the stream at a low quality so it starts
>> quickly, and then ramps up the quality as the buffer fills, since their
>> technology allows changing the stream quality on the fly.  Other services
>> like maybe Hulu and Amazon Prime may behave differently.
>>
>>
>>
>> Also with my default assumption that people are using Netflix, I don’t
>> expect rebuffering because it’s been years since Netflix needed to stop and
>> rebuffer at a lower stream rate, I think they do that pretty seamlessly now.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com ] *On
>> Behalf Of *Mathew Howard
>> *Sent:* Friday, October 14, 2016 9:09 PM
>> *To:* af 
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] "buffering"
>>
>>
>>
>> Well, people certainly want connections that support multiple streams.
>> Paying for it, I'm not so sure about... at least around these parts.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Oct 14, 2016 at 8:52 PM, Eric Kuhnke 
>> wrote:
>>
>> Have you ever seen a 1080p youtube video load on a 1GbE active-E FTTH ISP
>> that has direct peering with Google from a router 2.5ms upstream?  It's a
>> beautiful thing.
>>
>> People will absolutely pay for connections that support multiple streams,
>> take a typical family of 4 or 5 people with kids that want to watch videos
>> on tablets simultaneously...
>>
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Oct 14, 2016 at 6:49 PM, Ken Hohhof  wrote:
>>
>> When people say their video is “buffering”, I assume they mean
>> re-buffering

Re: [AFMUG] "buffering"

[Mike Hammett]

DirecTV's CDN is Level 3. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Joe Novak"  
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Saturday, October 15, 2016 11:59:14 AM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] "buffering" 


In a lot of the early smart TVs - even some of the new ones - the netflix 
'smart' modulation did not work well if at all. The Roku's and streaming boxes 
usually have perfect support for it. Hulu seems to do good too. Direct TV has 
shit poor bandwidth management, and poor peering as far as we could tell. 


On Sat, Oct 15, 2016 at 11:52 AM, Ken Hohhof < af...@kwisp.com > wrote: 





The most recent customer I think I’ve gotten to clarify the video is actually 
stopping and starting. Previously he was saying it took a long time to buffer 
but was fine once the picture appeared. That’s what got me to thinking the 
latest complaint was impatience with how long it took before the video started 
playing, not problems while it was playing. The next challenge is to find out 
what streaming service he is using, people tend to call them all “Netflix”. But 
I rarely hear about Netflix stopping to buffer because Netflix can switch 
stream rates on the fly, if it’s actually Netflix and it is stopping and 
starting, in my experience it’s usually something other than just slow 
Internet. Like WiFi dropping out, or packet loss, or a Windows 10 download 
overloading the connection. 

We have transitioned to the point where people sit down in front of their 
“smart TV” and expect to watch TV, who knows what streaming service, but there 
is only one answer if it doesn’t work like old fashioned TV – your Internet is 
too slow. I had a customer call because she couldn’t watch an online class on 
her computer which was telling her “you are not connected to a network”, and 
there was an airplane symbol in the lower right. Tech support for the online 
college told her that meant her Internet was too slow. I was tempted to tell 
her the airplane symbol actually meant her Internet was really fast (it’s 
flying), otherwise it would show a car or a turtle. 




From: Af [mailto: af-boun...@afmug.com ] On Behalf Of Chuck McCown 
Sent: Saturday, October 15, 2016 10:29 AM 
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] "buffering" 




I presume the circle thing is spinning when people say buffering. 






From: Ken Hohhof 

Sent: Friday, October 14, 2016 8:34 PM 

To: af@afmug.com 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] "buffering" 



But that’s not what I’m talking about. I’m wondering if when a customer talks 
about “buffering”, he really means having to wait for the video to start 
playing. 

And maybe I’m confused because I assume everyone is using Netflix. And I’m 
pretty sure Netflix starts the stream at a low quality so it starts quickly, 
and then ramps up the quality as the buffer fills, since their technology 
allows changing the stream quality on the fly. Other services like maybe Hulu 
and Amazon Prime may behave differently. 

Also with my default assumption that people are using Netflix, I don’t expect 
rebuffering because it’s been years since Netflix needed to stop and rebuffer 
at a lower stream rate, I think they do that pretty seamlessly now. 


From: Af [ mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com ] On Behalf Of Mathew Howard 
Sent: Friday, October 14, 2016 9:09 PM 
To: af < af@afmug.com > 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] "buffering" 



Well, people certainly want connections that support multiple streams. Paying 
for it, I'm not so sure about... at least around these parts. 



On Fri, Oct 14, 2016 at 8:52 PM, Eric Kuhnke < eric.kuh...@gmail.com > wrote: 




Have you ever seen a 1080p youtube video load on a 1GbE active-E FTTH ISP that 
has direct peering with Google from a router 2.5ms upstream? It's a beautiful 
thing. 
People will absolutely pay for connections that support multiple streams, take 
a typical family of 4 or 5 people with kids that want to watch videos on 
tablets simultaneously... 





On Fri, Oct 14, 2016 at 6:49 PM, Ken Hohhof < af...@kwisp.com > wrote: 




When people say their video is “buffering”, I assume they mean re-buffering, 
where the video stops and starts. 

I’m starting to wonder if some people are referring to the delay before the 
video starts playing. Is this a thing? And do people pay for faster Internet 
just to make the video start faster, like cut 15-20 seconds down to 5 or 10 
seconds? 

Re: [AFMUG] "buffering"

[That One Guy /sarcasm]

Roku is just an amazing nail on the head device. I still run the old xd it
still updates, the apps still update, it's got the supported dev channels.
That's probably one of the most elegantly perfect pieces of electronic in
my home

On Oct 16, 2016 10:49 AM, "Bill Prince"  wrote:

> The problem with whatever app is on the TV (or if there is an app), is
> that if the TV is more than 1 year old, it will never be updated again.
>
> The Netflix app on our (now) 5 year old LG is a poor example of how
> Netflix should actually work (or any of the online streaming services for
> that matter). I didn't realize how poor until we installed a ROKU 2, and
> found out what a reasonably modern implementation looked like.
>
>
> bp
> 
>
>
> On 10/15/2016 10:10 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
>
> In your experience, does it help if the customer goes through the
> procedure to update the app on the smart TV?
>
>
>
> Most of the smart TVs we run into seem to be Samsung.  I know a lot of the
> early ones also didn’t seem to play well with certain WiFi routers.
>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] OT. Trump's supporters talk rebellion, assassination at his rallies

[Jaime Solorza]

Watch SNL skit on Trump and Hillary from last night... The actors nailed
them...

On Oct 15, 2016 11:07 PM, "Stefan Englhardt"  wrote:

> Bild is no paper you should take as reference. It is just big letters and
> made for people who barely could read but don't understand.
> But serious papers don't like Trump, too. Trump does give a very bad
> picture of US to other nations.
>
>
>  Ursprüngliche Nachricht 
> Von: Ken Hohhof 
> Datum: 16.10.2016 03:48 (GMT+01:00)
> An: af@afmug.com
> Betreff: Re: [AFMUG] OT. Trump's supporters talk rebellion, assassination
> at his rallies
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] OT - ladder safety

[Jaime Solorza]

Yikes

On Oct 16, 2016 9:53 AM, "Robert"  wrote:

> That there should be the picture on the Darwin Award Trophy...
>
> On 10/16/16 8:02 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
>
>> Saw this on the Internet.  I guess OSHA doesn�t apply to homeowners.
>>
>>

Re: [AFMUG] hardest thing I've had to do with this biz...

[Robert]

Exactly the same...   I won't mince words because I am not some pansy 
news organization..   This was the direct result of a controlled burn 
put on by Nevada Department of Forestry and University of Reno.  Started 
5 days before a predicted High Wind Event.   There are some people 
feeling very bad right now and they should.   Fire bosses up and down 
the line should lose their jobs for not stopping this.   This was 
government at it's absolute worst.   Fricken Insanity..   FRICKEN 
STUPID...   The only good thing was no one died.   There should be calls 
going out for the heads of who set up that fire but it's tiptoe through 
the tulips time...


On 10/16/16 7:56 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote:

Is this the same fire that news reports say destroyed the house of the owner of 
the Bunny Ranch?  Probably not, since that is described as a wildfire.

-Original Message-
From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Robert Andrews
Sent: Friday, October 14, 2016 7:13 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: [AFMUG] hardest thing I've had to do with this biz...

Today in Reno a prescribed burn that was supposed to be out two days ago
blew up and took out 19 homes.   A large number of them were customers
including two repeater locations.   How do I go to the people who lost
their homes and ask to rebuild the repeaters on the ashes?   Sometimes
this job really sucks...

Robert

Re: [AFMUG] OT - ladder safety

[Robert]

That there should be the picture on the Darwin Award Trophy...

On 10/16/16 8:02 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote:

Saw this on the Internet.  I guess OSHA doesn�t apply to homeowners.

Re: [AFMUG] "buffering"

[Bill Prince]

The problem with whatever app is on the TV (or if there is an app), is 
that if the TV is more than 1 year old, it will never be updated again.


The Netflix app on our (now) 5 year old LG is a poor example of how 
Netflix should actually work (or any of the online streaming services 
for that matter). I didn't realize how poor until we installed a ROKU 2, 
and found out what a reasonably modern implementation looked like.



bp


On 10/15/2016 10:10 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote:


In your experience, does it help if the customer goes through the 
procedure to update the app on the smart TV?


Most of the smart TVs we run into seem to be Samsung.  I know a lot of 
the early ones also didn’t seem to play well with certain WiFi routers.

[AFMUG] OT - ladder safety

[Ken Hohhof]

Saw this on the Internet.  I guess OSHA doesn't apply to homeowners.

Re: [AFMUG] hardest thing I've had to do with this biz...

[Ken Hohhof]

Is this the same fire that news reports say destroyed the house of the owner of 
the Bunny Ranch?  Probably not, since that is described as a wildfire.

-Original Message-
From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Robert Andrews
Sent: Friday, October 14, 2016 7:13 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: [AFMUG] hardest thing I've had to do with this biz...

Today in Reno a prescribed burn that was supposed to be out two days ago 
blew up and took out 19 homes.   A large number of them were customers 
including two repeater locations.   How do I go to the people who lost 
their homes and ask to rebuild the repeaters on the ashes?   Sometimes 
this job really sucks...

Robert

Re: [AFMUG] "buffering"

[Paul Stewart]

None of my house is wired … everything is finished and when/if someday I get 
around to ripping out walls/ceilings for some reason I’ll start running 
conduit.  The only place that is wired is one section of the lower basement …  

Having reliable and reasonably fast wireless is pretty important to me - and 
once I bought a RT-AC87U Dual-band 4x4 AC2400 I finally got that.I’ve had a 
lot of different consumer grade routers and switches in my home and finally am 
happy now.  This is the first wireless router I’ve had that covers my entire 
house without those stupid repeaters or other issues… I did some IPERF testing 
on it a while back and could get an *honest* 300-400Mb/s bidirectional most of 
the time - more than what I need.

Almost every device in my house is wireless and few devices even have option 
for wired except for gaming consoles, desktop computers … I run a large media 
centre system on Plex with about 80TB of content stored on NAS.  That part is 
wired of course too but the devices that are being fed out to are all wireless 
and work well with no issues …



> On Oct 15, 2016, at 6:11 PM, Josh Reynolds  wrote:
> My networking lab in the basement is wired :P
> 
> 
> On Oct 15, 2016 4:49 PM, "CBB - Jay Fuller"  > wrote:
> 
> My house is cat5 wired :)
> 
> Sent from my Verizon 4G LTE Smartphone
> 
> - Reply message -
> From: "Josh Reynolds" mailto:j...@kyneticwifi.com>>
> To: mailto:af@afmug.com>>
> Subject: [AFMUG] "buffering"
> Date: Sat, Oct 15, 2016 1:28 PM
> 
> Running cable takes work and people are lazy.
> 
> (I have a bunch of OM4 I need to run and 2 boxes of cat6 sitting there, so I 
> can't really say crap!)
> 
> 
> On Oct 15, 2016 1:23 PM, "Ken Hohhof"  > wrote:
> I’m still waiting to run into a customer with a media library to justify the 
> $400 WiFi router some kid in the store sold them so they could have 
> multigigabit WiFi in their house.  Cuz if your only source of content is your 
> 25 Mbps Internet connection, I’m missing why you need that AC5300 router.  
> And honestly, if I had a media center with locally stored content streaming 
> 4K video around the house, I’d figure a way to run a cable to the big 
> screens.  Why spend all that money and then cheap out by using WiFi, 
> especially since that 60 inch TV isn’t exactly portable unless it’s on wheels.
> 
>  
> 
>   <>
> From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com ] On 
> Behalf Of Joe Novak
> Sent: Saturday, October 15, 2016 1:09 PM
> To: a...@afmug..com 
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] "buffering"
> 
>  
> 
> It makes me sad that Kodi got associated with all of the nonsense. It's a 
> beautiful media center front end. I actually just got a 'NexBox' in that runs 
> android, outputs 4K, which I can't do with my current media center setup. 
> I've been excited to play around with it. 
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
> On Sat, Oct 15, 2016 at 1:05 PM, Ken Hohhof  > wrote:
> 
> And the people with the Kodi boxes, usually the people who barely know how to 
> use a computer, are they answering ads in the back of magazines or something? 
>  They seem to expect something like the analog TV converter boxes, you plug 
> it in and get free live TV.  Must be legal because I bought a box.  And for 
> tech support, call your ISP.
> 
>  
> 
>   <>
> From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com ] On 
> Behalf Of That One Guy /sarcasm
> Sent: Saturday, October 15, 2016 12:54 PM
> 
> 
> To: af@afmug.com 
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] "buffering"
> 
>  
> 
> Don't forget these rooted amazon firesticks are dominating right now. I won't 
> offer any support for any issue unless it's a vanilla stick. These things are 
> blatantly illegal like the black box descramblers for satellite days.
> 
> People are dropping malicious operating systems in the middle of their 
> trusted network left and right for "free" tv. God only knows what iot bot net 
> activity is also causing their xhamster buffering
> 
>  
> 
> On Oct 15, 2016 12:48 PM, "Chuck McCown"  > wrote:
> 
> I read the word “Netflix” and my brain received “Netscape”. Talk about a 
> confusing moment...
> 
>  
> 
> From: CBB - Jay Fuller
> 
> Sent: Saturday, October 15, 2016 11:33 AM
> 
> To: af@afmug.com 
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] "buffering"
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
> I have a smart tv that works fine but won't update.  It is an earlier Netflix 
> interface but I actually like it better than the modern interface.
> 
>  
> 
> Sent from my Verizon 4G LTE Smartphone
> 
>  
> 
> - Reply message -
> From: "Ken Hohhof" mailto:af...@kwisp.com>>
> To: mailto:af@afmug.com>>
> Subject: [AFMUG] "buffering"
> Date: Sat, Oct 15, 2016 12:10 PM
> 
>  
> 
> In your experience, does it help if the customer goes through the procedure 
> to update the app on the smart TV?
> 
>  
> 
> Most of the smart TVs w

Re: [AFMUG] "buffering"

[Paul Stewart]

Yeah so true…

Now anytime someone says they have an “Android box” people think of pirated TV 
using Kodi ….

> On Oct 15, 2016, at 2:09 PM, Joe Novak  wrote:
> 
> It makes me sad that Kodi got associated with all of the nonsense. It's a 
> beautiful media center front end. I actually just got a 'NexBox' in that runs 
> android, outputs 4K, which I can't do with my current media center setup. 
> I've been excited to play around with it. 
> 
> 
> 
> On Sat, Oct 15, 2016 at 1:05 PM, Ken Hohhof  > wrote:
> And the people with the Kodi boxes, usually the people who barely know how to 
> use a computer, are they answering ads in the back of magazines or something? 
>  They seem to expect something like the analog TV converter boxes, you plug 
> it in and get free live TV.  Must be legal because I bought a box.  And for 
> tech support, call your ISP.
> 
>  
> 
>   <>
> From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com ] On 
> Behalf Of That One Guy /sarcasm
> Sent: Saturday, October 15, 2016 12:54 PM
> 
> 
> To: af@afmug.com 
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] "buffering"
> 
>  
> 
> Don't forget these rooted amazon firesticks are dominating right now. I won't 
> offer any support for any issue unless it's a vanilla stick. These things are 
> blatantly illegal like the black box descramblers for satellite days.
> 
> People are dropping malicious operating systems in the middle of their 
> trusted network left and right for "free" tv. God only knows what iot bot net 
> activity is also causing their xhamster buffering
> 
>  
> 
> On Oct 15, 2016 12:48 PM, "Chuck McCown"  > wrote:
> 
> I read the word “Netflix” and my brain received “Netscape”. Talk about a 
> confusing moment...
> 
>  
> 
> From: CBB - Jay Fuller
> 
> Sent: Saturday, October 15, 2016 11:33 AM
> 
> To: af@afmug.com 
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] "buffering"
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
> I have a smart tv that works fine but won't update.  It is an earlier Netflix 
> interface but I actually like it better than the modern interface.
> 
>  
> 
> Sent from my Verizon 4G LTE Smartphone
> 
>  
> 
> - Reply message -
> From: "Ken Hohhof" mailto:af...@kwisp.com>>
> To: mailto:af@afmug.com>>
> Subject: [AFMUG] "buffering"
> Date: Sat, Oct 15, 2016 12:10 PM
> 
>  
> 
> In your experience, does it help if the customer goes through the procedure 
> to update the app on the smart TV?
> 
>  
> 
> Most of the smart TVs we run into seem to be Samsung.  I know a lot of the 
> early ones also didn’t seem to play well with certain WiFi routers.
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
>  <> 
> 
> From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com ] On 
> Behalf Of Joe Novak
> Sent: Saturday, October 15, 2016 11:59 AM
> To: af@afmug.com 
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] "buffering"
> 
>  
> 
> In a lot of the early smart TVs - even some of the new ones - the netflix 
> 'smart' modulation did not work well if at all. The Roku's and streaming 
> boxes usually have perfect support for it. Hulu seems to do good too. Direct 
> TV has shit poor bandwidth management, and poor peering as far as we could 
> tell.
> 
>  
> 
> On Sat, Oct 15, 2016 at 11:52 AM, Ken Hohhof  > wrote:
> 
> The most recent customer I think I’ve gotten to clarify the video is actually 
> stopping and starting.  Previously he was saying it took a long time to 
> buffer but was fine once the picture appeared.  That’s what got me to 
> thinking the latest complaint was impatience with how long it took before the 
> video started playing, not problems while it was playing.  The next challenge 
> is to find out what streaming service he is using, people tend to call them 
> all “Netflix”.  But I rarely hear about Netflix stopping to buffer because 
> Netflix can switch stream rates on the fly, if it’s actually Netflix and it 
> is stopping and starting, in my experience it’s usually something other than 
> just slow Internet.  Like WiFi dropping out, or packet loss, or a Windows 10 
> download overloading the connection.
> 
>  
> 
> We have transitioned to the point where people sit down in front of their 
> “smart TV” and expect to watch TV, who knows what streaming service, but 
> there is only one answer if it doesn’t work like old fashioned TV – your 
> Internet is too slow.  I had a customer call because she couldn’t watch an 
> online class on her computer which was telling her “you  are  not connected 
> to a network”, and there was an airplane symbol in the lower right.  Tech 
> support for the online college told her that meant her Internet was too slow. 
>  I was tempted to tell her the airplane symbol actually meant her Internet 
> was really fast (it’s flying), otherwise it would show a car or a turtle.
> 
>  
> 
>   <>
> From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com ] On 
> Behalf Of Chuck McCown
> Sent: Saturday, October 15, 2016 10:29 AM
> To: af@afmug.c

Re: [AFMUG] "buffering"

[Paul Stewart]

Yeah we see an absolute tonne of android based boxes here in Canada for “free” 
TV as well … Kijiji ads all over the place promoting them and stuff … basically 
Kodi boxes with some “grey plugins” - not really anything new technically, but 
now better packaged than ever … 


> On Oct 15, 2016, at 1:53 PM, That One Guy /sarcasm 
>  wrote:
> 
> Don't forget these rooted amazon firesticks are dominating right now. I won't 
> offer any support for any issue unless it's a vanilla stick. These things are 
> blatantly illegal like the black box descramblers for satellite days.
> 
> People are dropping malicious operating systems in the middle of their 
> trusted network left and right for "free" tv. God only knows what iot bot net 
> activity is also causing their xhamster buffering
> 
> 
> On Oct 15, 2016 12:48 PM, "Chuck McCown"  > wrote:
> I read the word “Netflix” and my brain received “Netscape”. Talk about a 
> confusing moment...
>  
> From: CBB - Jay Fuller <>
> Sent: Saturday, October 15, 2016 11:33 AM
> To: af@afmug.com <>
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] "buffering"
>  
>  
> I have a smart tv that works fine but won't update.  It is an earlier Netflix 
> interface but I actually like it better than the modern interface.
>  
> Sent from my Verizon 4G LTE Smartphone
>  
> - Reply message -
> From: "Ken Hohhof" mailto:af...@kwisp.com>>
> To: mailto:af@afmug.com>>
> Subject: [AFMUG] "buffering"
> Date: Sat, Oct 15, 2016 12:10 PM
>  
> In your experience, does it help if the customer goes through the procedure 
> to update the app on the smart TV?
> 
>  
> 
> Most of the smart TVs we run into seem to be Samsung.  I know a lot of the 
> early ones also didn’t seem to play well with certain WiFi routers.
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
>  <> 
> 
> From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com ] On 
> Behalf Of Joe Novak
> Sent: Saturday, October 15, 2016 11:59 AM
> To: af@afmug.com 
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] "buffering"
> 
>  
> 
> In a lot of the early smart TVs - even some of the new ones - the netflix 
> 'smart' modulation did not work well if at all. The Roku's and streaming 
> boxes usually have perfect support for it. Hulu seems to do good too. Direct 
> TV has shit poor bandwidth management, and poor peering as far as we could 
> tell.
> 
>  
> 
> On Sat, Oct 15, 2016 at 11:52 AM, Ken Hohhof > wrote:
> 
> The most recent customer I think I’ve gotten to clarify the video is actually 
> stopping and starting.  Previously he was saying it took a long time to 
> buffer but was fine once the picture appeared.  That’s what got me to 
> thinking the latest complaint was impatience with how long it took before the 
> video started playing, not problems while it was playing.  The next challenge 
> is to find out what streaming service he is using, people tend to call them 
> all “Netflix”.  But I rarely hear about Netflix stopping to buffer because 
> Netflix can switch stream rates on the fly, if it’s actually Netflix and it 
> is stopping and starting, in my experience it’s usually something other than 
> just slow Internet.  Like WiFi dropping out, or packet loss, or a Windows 10 
> download overloading the connection.
> 
>  
> 
> We have transitioned to the point where people sit down in front of their 
> “smart TV” and expect to watch TV, who knows what streaming service, but 
> there is only one answer if it doesn’t work like old fashioned TV – your 
> Internet is too slow.  I had a customer call because she couldn’t watch an 
> online class on her computer which was telling her “you  are  not connected 
> to a network”, and there was an airplane symbol in the lower right.  Tech 
> support for the online college told her that meant her Internet was too slow. 
>  I was tempted to tell her the airplane symbol actually meant her Internet 
> was really fast (it’s flying), otherwise it would show a car or a turtle.
> 
>  
> 
>   <>
> From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com <>] On Behalf Of Chuck McCown
> Sent: Saturday, October 15, 2016 10:29 AM
> To: af@afmug.com <>
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] "buffering"
> 
>  
> 
> I presume the circle thing is spinning when people say buffering. 
> 
>  
> 
> From: Ken Hohhof
> 
> Sent: Friday, October 14, 2016 8:34 PM
> 
> To: af@afmug.com <>
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] "buffering"
> 
>  
> 
> But that’s not what I’m talking about.  I’m wondering if when a customer 
> talks about “buffering”, he really means having to wait for the video to 
> start playing.
> 
>  
> 
> And maybe I’m confused because I assume everyone is using Netflix.  And I’m 
> pretty sure Netflix starts the stream at a low quality so it starts quickly, 
> and then ramps up the quality as the buffer fills, since their technology 
> allows changing the stream quality on the fly.  Other services like maybe 
> Hulu and Amazon Prime may behave differently.
> 
>  
> 
> Also with my default assumption that people are using Netflix, I don’t expect 
> rebuffering because it