Re: [AFMUG] crowdsource troubleshooting

[Philip Rankin]

Hey Josh,

The new ePMP gigabit interfaces will work both polarities.  You can
actually use the old PMP100 power supplies with no issues that I have had
so far.  I have only left a couple in that mode because the existing
customer wasn't home when we did the swap. All Cambium had to do was use a
bridge on the input and as long as the voltage and current capabilities
were acceptable.

1001001,

Phil

   Phil

Philip J. Rankin, CEO
Wireless Telecommunications, Corp.
A division of;
Mobilcom Wireless Services
PO Box 24
Pittsburg, KS  66762
620-231-8188

On Tue, May 8, 2018 at 2:53 PM, Josh Luthman 
wrote:

> Any polarity or any pinout?  Pretty sure the Ubnt AirMax NanoBeam 25dbi
> units will do gigabit but only do the old fashion 24v 45+ 78-.  Reverse
> polarity seems awfully sketch to me.
>
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> 
> Suite 1337
> 
> Troy, OH 45373
> 
>
> On Tue, May 8, 2018 at 2:25 PM, Mathew Howard 
> wrote:
>
>> As far as I know, all of the ubnt gear with gigabit ports will take any
>> poe polarity... As long as there's a pair with negative and a pair with
>> positive, they'll turn on. I don't see that ubnt adding a second negative
>> pair will really affect anything, unless netonix did that as well.
>>
>> On Tue, May 8, 2018, 11:53 AM Adam Moffett  wrote:
>>
>>> If that's right, would that mean 0.5amp on 4&5 and 0.25amp on 3&6,7&8 ?
>>> Is it a 0.5amp fuse?
>>>
>>>
>>> -- Original Message --
>>> From: "Jeremy" 
>>> To: af@afmug.com
>>> Sent: 5/8/2018 11:42:35 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] crowdsource troubleshooting
>>>
>>> No, that is not true, it adds an additional ground on 3&6.  So to obtain
>>> a gigabit connection you have + on 4&5 and - on 3&6, 7&8.  All of the
>>> present day UBNT gear is like this since they added gigabit Ethernet.  When
>>> we upgrade we add a jumper to 3&6 to get it to negotiate at gigabit, but
>>> they seem to operate at 100FDX without it.
>>>
>>> On Tue, May 8, 2018 at 9:30 AM, Jacob Turner 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 The Prism Gen 2 uses "standard" UBNT passive 24v POE.  +4,5 -7,8.  I've
 seen netonix switches claiming as much as 12 watts draw from one when
 running.  I wouldn't be surprised if their startup draw may be a bit 
 higher.

 On Tue, May 8, 2018 at 8:16 AM,  wrote:

> I need help in understanding a product failure.
>
> I have now had two customers with similar failures in my POE fuse
> product.  The fuses are blowing.
> So far it is limited to the fuses on pins 4/5.
>
> One customer is using:
> UBNT 5AC Prism Gen 2 radio, Mikrotik 411 boards, using both poes and
> netonix as the power supply.
>
> What pins and polarities does that radio use for POE?  How much
> current?
>
> I may need higher rated fuses or slower fuses.  But I can only go so
> high before it is not protecting Netonix thus becoming an expensive CAT5
> splice.
>
> My ideas so far:
>
> I need a slower reacting fuse.
>
> I need a higher amp rating fuse.  (not sure how high I can go and
> still protect Netonix)
>
> Some loads have unanticipated currents on those wires.
>
> Plugging in when powered may cause a connection sequence problem where
> if pin 4 makes contact first the whole load will go through that wire and
> blow that fuse.
>
>


>>>
>

Re: [AFMUG] GPS problems around 11:30 to 1:30 every night

[Steve Jones]

With mine being daylight times I was wondering about sun reflecting and
doing something odd like heating a puck causing some faulty connection to
separate, or some thermal thing

On Tue, May 8, 2018, 12:54 PM Josh Luthman 
wrote:

> No resolution.
>
> I started graphing the epmp satellites visible and tracked.  Visible is
> always above 7 with an average of 12.44.  However the tracked dips down to
> 0 around 7-12 at night with an average of 6.93.
>
> So what would make the GPS puck see the satellites but not track them?
> Why would it matter what time of day?
>
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
> On Mon, May 7, 2018 at 11:02 PM, Steve Jones 
> wrote:
>
>> did you find any resolution? we are starting to see this between 2pm and
>> 6pm at different sites, but not all APs at the sites, only common thin is
>> theyre mounted on the east side, but have full 360 degree sky. switching to
>> internal fixes it, but internal is just generating sync isnt it? it takes
>> away the front/back option in the gui
>> EPMP is rock solid stuff, with the exception of puck issues
>>
>> On Wed, Apr 11, 2018 at 10:14 PM, Josh Luthman <
>> j...@imaginenetworksllc.com> wrote:
>>
>>> FWIW it's on the south side of a water tower.  There's little to no
>>> signal from the northern sky.
>>>
>>> Of course I'm pretty sure the tower isn't moving some weird way every
>>> night...
>>>
>>> Josh Luthman
>>> Office: 937-552-2340
>>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>>> 1100 Wayne St
>>> 
>>> Suite 1337
>>> 
>>> Troy, OH 45373
>>> 
>>>
>>> On Fri, Apr 6, 2018, 6:00 PM Bill Prince  wrote:
>>>
 Just checking ours. I thought it happened once every month or two, but
 I guess it's not even that often. The snapshot from the last 3 months
 indicate that it got close to losing it in week 12, but it seems to have
 lived through it, even though it got down to 3 satellites tracked.

 bp
 


 On 4/6/2018 2:48 PM, Brian Sullivan wrote:

 We have this at a couple sites each year.  Usually, I can mount the GPS
 antenna in a different place and solve the issue.  Whats interesting is, I
 don't see this issue with the SyncBoxes, only CMM Micro.  And I have both
 at the same towers affected.

 On 4/6/2018 4:39 PM, Bill Prince wrote:

 We have a SyncInjector mounted on the south side of a concrete
 building. The building is thick concrete ( > 12"),  and extends up above
 the location of the GPS antenna 30 or 40 feet. The building is also a
 shallow "V" shape with the GPS antenna at inside base of the V. So the GPS
 antenna gets about 170° view of the sky to the south.

 It goes through a periodic cycle of visibility, but it's not the same
 time every night, or even every day.


 bp
 


 On 4/6/2018 2:20 PM, Forrest Christian (List Account) wrote:

 But the question is, why at the same time every day?   Especially since
 the gps satellites don't orbit on a 24 hour period...   that's what has me
 troubled with my customer.

 On Fri, Apr 6, 2018, 2:11 PM Bill Prince  wrote:

> Exposure to the north or south should not make a significant
> difference. GPS satellites, excepting the WAAS satellites, are not in
> geostationary orbits. They are (mostly?) in medium earth orbit of around
> 12,000 miles.
>
> I think it may be more of how much of the sky they can see.
>
> bp
> 
>
>
> On 4/6/2018 1:45 PM, Dave wrote:
>
> how much exposure to the northern hemisphere does it have?
> If I remember those antennas are fairly small
>
>
> On 04/06/2018 10:15 AM, Josh Luthman wrote:
>
> I have an epmp that has GPS problems and goes into the hold timer for
> a few minutes every single night for the last many months (maybe even a
> year).
>
> Didn't think much of it until I noticed all of the times being right
> around midnight, give or take...
>
> WTF?  Any ideas what's causing it?
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> 
> Suite 1337
> 
> Troy, OH 45373
> 
>
>
> --
>
>
>



>>
>

Re: [AFMUG] crowdsource troubleshooting

[Mathew Howard]

That's what I thought, until somebody told me otherwise... I think I tested
using pins 1/2 and 3/6,but I don't remember for sure... I know for sure
that they will work with the Cambium pinout though. I remember testing a
few different modules, but the only ones I remember for sure were the old
802.11n Powerbeams. As far as I can remember, everything I tried with a
gigabit port worked on reverse polarity, but nothing with 10/100 ports did.

On Tue, May 8, 2018, 2:53 PM Josh Luthman 
wrote:

> Any polarity or any pinout?  Pretty sure the Ubnt AirMax NanoBeam 25dbi
> units will do gigabit but only do the old fashion 24v 45+ 78-.  Reverse
> polarity seems awfully sketch to me.
>
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
> On Tue, May 8, 2018 at 2:25 PM, Mathew Howard 
> wrote:
>
>> As far as I know, all of the ubnt gear with gigabit ports will take any
>> poe polarity... As long as there's a pair with negative and a pair with
>> positive, they'll turn on. I don't see that ubnt adding a second negative
>> pair will really affect anything, unless netonix did that as well.
>>
>> On Tue, May 8, 2018, 11:53 AM Adam Moffett  wrote:
>>
>>> If that's right, would that mean 0.5amp on 4&5 and 0.25amp on 3&6,7&8 ?
>>> Is it a 0.5amp fuse?
>>>
>>>
>>> -- Original Message --
>>> From: "Jeremy" 
>>> To: af@afmug.com
>>> Sent: 5/8/2018 11:42:35 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] crowdsource troubleshooting
>>>
>>> No, that is not true, it adds an additional ground on 3&6.  So to obtain
>>> a gigabit connection you have + on 4&5 and - on 3&6, 7&8.  All of the
>>> present day UBNT gear is like this since they added gigabit Ethernet.  When
>>> we upgrade we add a jumper to 3&6 to get it to negotiate at gigabit, but
>>> they seem to operate at 100FDX without it.
>>>
>>> On Tue, May 8, 2018 at 9:30 AM, Jacob Turner 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 The Prism Gen 2 uses "standard" UBNT passive 24v POE.  +4,5 -7,8.  I've
 seen netonix switches claiming as much as 12 watts draw from one when
 running.  I wouldn't be surprised if their startup draw may be a bit 
 higher.

 On Tue, May 8, 2018 at 8:16 AM,  wrote:

> I need help in understanding a product failure.
>
> I have now had two customers with similar failures in my POE fuse
> product.  The fuses are blowing.
> So far it is limited to the fuses on pins 4/5.
>
> One customer is using:
> UBNT 5AC Prism Gen 2 radio, Mikrotik 411 boards, using both poes and
> netonix as the power supply.
>
> What pins and polarities does that radio use for POE?  How much
> current?
>
> I may need higher rated fuses or slower fuses.  But I can only go so
> high before it is not protecting Netonix thus becoming an expensive CAT5
> splice.
>
> My ideas so far:
>
> I need a slower reacting fuse.
>
> I need a higher amp rating fuse.  (not sure how high I can go and
> still protect Netonix)
>
> Some loads have unanticipated currents on those wires.
>
> Plugging in when powered may cause a connection sequence problem where
> if pin 4 makes contact first the whole load will go through that wire and
> blow that fuse.
>
>


>>>
>

Re: [AFMUG] OT: One space versus two spaces (again)

[Carl Peterson]

I think we can all agree that when you read something, the way it displays to 
you should have more space after a period at the end of a sentence then between 
words in the sentence.  The question is wether this should be done manually or 
as a function of the font.  I'm sure most of us agree that variable font 
spacing looks better then fixed.  We don't manually adjust the space between 
letters or words to make it look better because it is a function of the font so 
why would we manually adjust between sentences?


> On May 8, 2018, at 7:58 PM, Jaime Solorza  wrote:
> 
> Well, I could chime in now and claim that this list is a rare medium, well 
> done. But perhaps it is better if I wrote it as a rare medium well done. 
> 
> Jaime Solorza
> 
>> On Tue, May 8, 2018, 5:15 PM John Osmon  wrote:
>> Stop worrying about typeface/font.  Just remember:
>>   "single space" separates words
>>   "double space" indicates the end of a sentence
>> 
>> 
>> If you fall for the "single space between sentences" rouse, you will
>> need to rely on context to differentiate a sentence ending, vs. the
>> space between words when you abbreviate something.
>> 
>> (e.g.  "vs." in my last sentence.)
>> 
>> 
>> I'll give up double spaces when I'm forced to give up oxford commas.
>> Until then, I'll use both make my prose easier to parse.  :-)
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On Tue, May 08, 2018 at 08:29:50PM +, Carl Peterson wrote:
>> > So if the variable width font you are using already includes the proper
>> > amount of space after a period, about 1.5 "spaces", when you add an extra
>> > space after a period are you really putting 2.5 "spaces" after the period.
>> > 
>> > On Mon, May 7, 2018 at 7:01 PM, SmarterBroadband  wrote:
>> > 
>> > > I do 3 after a full stop.
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Gino A. Villarini
>> > > *Sent:* Monday, May 7, 2018 6:09 AM
>> > > *To:* af@afmug.com
>> > > *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT: One space versus two spaces (again)
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > Im a rebel,  I use 3 spaces after a dot!   2 spaces after a coma!   Lol!
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > *From: *Af  on behalf of "li...@packetflux.com" <
>> > > li...@packetflux.com>
>> > > *Reply-To: *"af@afmug.com" 
>> > > *Date: *Monday, May 7, 2018 at 8:04 AM
>> > > *To: *"af@afmug.com" 
>> > > *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] OT: One space versus two spaces (again)
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > I like spaces.
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > But I want my tab key to add the correct amount of spaces for the indent.
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > Fortunately it seems that most editors I use to edit code have a setting
>> > > to do just that.  The ones that don't are a pain in the rear since I'm 
>> > > not
>> > > consistent in the use of tabs vs spaces since I expect my editor to do 
>> > > the
>> > > right thing and treat the tab key as a 'insert a few spaces for me' key.
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > As far as single or double spaces... well, I'm a double spacing person
>> > > when I type, even though I know that a single space is considered 
>> > > 'better'
>> > > anymore due to modern typefaces inserting the correct amount of space 
>> > > with
>> > > only a single space.   HTML also ignores double spaces by default, so 
>> > > most
>> > > of the web runs on single spaces.
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > *Gino A. Villarini*
>> > >
>> > > President
>> > >
>> > > Metro Office Park #18 Suite 304 Guaynabo, Puerto Rico 00968
>> > >
>> > > On Sun, May 6, 2018 at 8:25 PM, Robert  wrote:
>> > >
>> > > Trivial stuff, the real meat is tabs versus spaces while programming...
>> > >
>> > > On 5/6/18 7:21 PM, Chuck McCown wrote:
>> > >
>> > > Double spacers of the world unite.  Everybody else can get the fu*k off
>> > > our lawn.
>> > >
>> > > -Original Message- From: ja...@remotelylocated.com
>> > > Sent: Sunday, May 06, 2018 8:19 PM
>> > > To: af@afmug.com
>> > > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: One space versus two spaces (again)
>> > >
>> > > You can tell someone's age by one or two spaces.  For me that is what I
>> > > was taught and bugs the hell out of me when I see single space.
>> > >
>> > > Sent from my iPhone
>> > >
>> > > On May 6, 2018, at 5:49 PM, Bill Prince  wrote:
>> > >
>> > > I remember there being a rather exuberant discussion a couple years ago
>> > > about the advantages/disadvantages and goodness/badness of putting a 
>> > > single
>> > > space after a sentence versus putting two spaces. The debate rages on, 
>> > > but
>> > > this one study suggests that putting two spaces makes sentences easier to
>> > > read.
>> > >
>> > > https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/speaking-of-science/
>> > > wp/2018/05/04/one-space-between-each-sentence-they-
>> > > said-science-just-proved-them-wrong-2/?noredirect=on&utm_
>> > > term=.b61d35728d29
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > --
>> > >
>> > > bp
>> > > 
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > --
>> > >
>> > > *Forrest Christian* *CEO, PacketFlux Technologies, Inc.*
>> 

Re: [AFMUG] OT: One space versus two spaces (again)

[Jaime Solorza]

Well, I could chime in now and claim that this list is a rare medium, well
done. But perhaps it is better if I wrote it as a rare medium well done.

Jaime Solorza

On Tue, May 8, 2018, 5:15 PM John Osmon  wrote:

> Stop worrying about typeface/font.  Just remember:
>   "single space" separates words
>   "double space" indicates the end of a sentence
>
>
> If you fall for the "single space between sentences" rouse, you will
> need to rely on context to differentiate a sentence ending, vs. the
> space between words when you abbreviate something.
>
> (e.g.  "vs." in my last sentence.)
>
>
> I'll give up double spaces when I'm forced to give up oxford commas.
> Until then, I'll use both make my prose easier to parse.  :-)
>
>
>
> On Tue, May 08, 2018 at 08:29:50PM +, Carl Peterson wrote:
> > So if the variable width font you are using already includes the proper
> > amount of space after a period, about 1.5 "spaces", when you add an extra
> > space after a period are you really putting 2.5 "spaces" after the
> period.
> >
> > On Mon, May 7, 2018 at 7:01 PM, SmarterBroadband  wrote:
> >
> > > I do 3 after a full stop.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Gino A.
> Villarini
> > > *Sent:* Monday, May 7, 2018 6:09 AM
> > > *To:* af@afmug.com
> > > *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT: One space versus two spaces (again)
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Im a rebel,  I use 3 spaces after a dot!   2 spaces after a coma!
>  Lol!
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > *From: *Af  on behalf of "li...@packetflux.com"
> <
> > > li...@packetflux.com>
> > > *Reply-To: *"af@afmug.com" 
> > > *Date: *Monday, May 7, 2018 at 8:04 AM
> > > *To: *"af@afmug.com" 
> > > *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] OT: One space versus two spaces (again)
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > I like spaces.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > But I want my tab key to add the correct amount of spaces for the
> indent.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Fortunately it seems that most editors I use to edit code have a
> setting
> > > to do just that.  The ones that don't are a pain in the rear since I'm
> not
> > > consistent in the use of tabs vs spaces since I expect my editor to do
> the
> > > right thing and treat the tab key as a 'insert a few spaces for me'
> key.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > As far as single or double spaces... well, I'm a double spacing person
> > > when I type, even though I know that a single space is considered
> 'better'
> > > anymore due to modern typefaces inserting the correct amount of space
> with
> > > only a single space.   HTML also ignores double spaces by default, so
> most
> > > of the web runs on single spaces.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > *Gino A. Villarini*
> > >
> > > President
> > >
> > > Metro Office Park #18 Suite 304 Guaynabo, Puerto Rico 00968
> > >
> > > On Sun, May 6, 2018 at 8:25 PM, Robert  wrote:
> > >
> > > Trivial stuff, the real meat is tabs versus spaces while programming...
> > >
> > > On 5/6/18 7:21 PM, Chuck McCown wrote:
> > >
> > > Double spacers of the world unite.  Everybody else can get the fu*k off
> > > our lawn.
> > >
> > > -Original Message- From: ja...@remotelylocated.com
> > > Sent: Sunday, May 06, 2018 8:19 PM
> > > To: af@afmug.com
> > > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: One space versus two spaces (again)
> > >
> > > You can tell someone's age by one or two spaces.  For me that is what I
> > > was taught and bugs the hell out of me when I see single space.
> > >
> > > Sent from my iPhone
> > >
> > > On May 6, 2018, at 5:49 PM, Bill Prince  wrote:
> > >
> > > I remember there being a rather exuberant discussion a couple years ago
> > > about the advantages/disadvantages and goodness/badness of putting a
> single
> > > space after a sentence versus putting two spaces. The debate rages on,
> but
> > > this one study suggests that putting two spaces makes sentences easier
> to
> > > read.
> > >
> > > https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/speaking-of-science/
> > > wp/2018/05/04/one-space-between-each-sentence-they-
> > > said-science-just-proved-them-wrong-2/?noredirect=on&utm_
> > > term=.b61d35728d29
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > >
> > > bp
> > > 
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > >
> > > *Forrest Christian* *CEO, PacketFlux Technologies, Inc.*
> > >
> > > Tel: 406-449-3345 | Address: 3577 Countryside Road, Helena, MT 59602
> > > <
> https://maps.google.com/?q=3577+Countryside+Road,+Helena,+MT+59602&entry=gmail&source=g
> >
> > >
> > > forre...@imach.com | http://www.packetflux.com
> > >
> > >   <
> http://facebook.com/packetflux>
> > >   
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > --
> >
> > Carl Peterson
> >
> > *PORT NETWORKS*
> >
> > 401 E Pratt St, Ste 2553
> >
> > Baltimore, MD 21202
> >
> > (410) 637-3707
>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Tower Climber Insurance Sources?

[Keefe John]

They have you rated at code 5040 which is Iron or Steel Erection.  The 
rate for this code is roughly 26%


You should be rated at code 7600 which is Telecommunications and the 
rate is roughly 8%.


Call Unitel and they'll get you straightened out.

Keefe


On 5/8/2018 6:02 PM, Chuck McCown wrote:

WC for climbers is probably 20-25% of the payroll rate.
And you pay that whether or not you are climbing.
*From:* Sam Lambie
*Sent:* Tuesday, May 08, 2018 4:43 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com
*Subject:* [AFMUG] Tower Climber Insurance Sources?
Hey all,
My company is getting charged an assload a year for one tower climber 
(me). Supposedly, I have been reclassified as a steel and tower 
erector and such our Workmans Comp and Insurance has doubled. Whom do 
you guys use and what are the ball park figures you are seeing? We 
would like to get out of this if the prices are substantially lower.

Thanks
Sam
--
--
*Sam Lambie*
Taosnet Wireless Tech.
575-758-7598 Office
www.Taosnet.com 

Re: [AFMUG] OT: One space versus two spaces (again)

[Robert Andrews]

Had to be Apple, they always think they are right no matter who said 
what before them...


On 05/08/2018 04:35 PM, Chuck McCown wrote:
I believe that is right, but who decided to drop the second space when 
it was a word processor?  Doesn't make sense to me.


Somebody post Wang I suppose.  Wang was my first exposure to word 
processing.


Then AppleWriter.

Then P-Edit which became WordPerfect.

Then Word.

-Original Message- From: Seth Mattinen
Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2018 5:22 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: One space versus two spaces (again)

On 5/8/18 16:15, John Osmon wrote:

Stop worrying about typeface/font.  Just remember:
   "single space" separates words
   "double space" indicates the end of a sentence



For me it's quite literally a tell for how old someone is: before or
after typewriters. When we were taught typing in middle school it was
using computers and it was single space. I was *told* that on
typewriters it was two spaces.

Re: [AFMUG] OT: One space versus two spaces (again)

[Chuck McCown]

I believe that is right, but who decided to drop the second space when it 
was a word processor?  Doesn't make sense to me.


Somebody post Wang I suppose.  Wang was my first exposure to word 
processing.


Then AppleWriter.

Then P-Edit which became WordPerfect.

Then Word.

-Original Message- 
From: Seth Mattinen

Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2018 5:22 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: One space versus two spaces (again)

On 5/8/18 16:15, John Osmon wrote:

Stop worrying about typeface/font.  Just remember:
   "single space" separates words
   "double space" indicates the end of a sentence



For me it's quite literally a tell for how old someone is: before or
after typewriters. When we were taught typing in middle school it was
using computers and it was single space. I was *told* that on
typewriters it was two spaces. 

Re: [AFMUG] OT: One space versus two spaces (again)

[Chuck McCown]

Oxford comma got beat out of me in grade school for some reason.

Spacing is pretty important.  Tell me what this means:

Godisnowhere

-Original Message- 
From: John Osmon

Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2018 5:15 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: One space versus two spaces (again)

Stop worrying about typeface/font.  Just remember:
 "single space" separates words
 "double space" indicates the end of a sentence


If you fall for the "single space between sentences" rouse, you will
need to rely on context to differentiate a sentence ending, vs. the
space between words when you abbreviate something.

(e.g.  "vs." in my last sentence.)


I'll give up double spaces when I'm forced to give up oxford commas.
Until then, I'll use both make my prose easier to parse.  :-)



On Tue, May 08, 2018 at 08:29:50PM +, Carl Peterson wrote:

So if the variable width font you are using already includes the proper
amount of space after a period, about 1.5 "spaces", when you add an extra
space after a period are you really putting 2.5 "spaces" after the period.

On Mon, May 7, 2018 at 7:01 PM, SmarterBroadband  wrote:

> I do 3 after a full stop.
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Gino A. 
> Villarini

> *Sent:* Monday, May 7, 2018 6:09 AM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT: One space versus two spaces (again)
>
>
>
> Im a rebel,  I use 3 spaces after a dot!   2 spaces after a coma!   Lol!
>
>
>
> *From: *Af  on behalf of "li...@packetflux.com" <
> li...@packetflux.com>
> *Reply-To: *"af@afmug.com" 
> *Date: *Monday, May 7, 2018 at 8:04 AM
> *To: *"af@afmug.com" 
> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] OT: One space versus two spaces (again)
>
>
>
> I like spaces.
>
>
>
> But I want my tab key to add the correct amount of spaces for the 
> indent.

>
>
>
> Fortunately it seems that most editors I use to edit code have a setting
> to do just that.  The ones that don't are a pain in the rear since I'm 
> not
> consistent in the use of tabs vs spaces since I expect my editor to do 
> the

> right thing and treat the tab key as a 'insert a few spaces for me' key.
>
>
>
> As far as single or double spaces... well, I'm a double spacing person
> when I type, even though I know that a single space is considered 
> 'better'
> anymore due to modern typefaces inserting the correct amount of space 
> with
> only a single space.   HTML also ignores double spaces by default, so 
> most

> of the web runs on single spaces.
>
>
>
>
>
> *Gino A. Villarini*
>
> President
>
> Metro Office Park #18 Suite 304 Guaynabo, Puerto Rico 00968
>
> On Sun, May 6, 2018 at 8:25 PM, Robert  wrote:
>
> Trivial stuff, the real meat is tabs versus spaces while programming...
>
> On 5/6/18 7:21 PM, Chuck McCown wrote:
>
> Double spacers of the world unite.  Everybody else can get the fu*k off
> our lawn.
>
> -Original Message- From: ja...@remotelylocated.com
> Sent: Sunday, May 06, 2018 8:19 PM
> To: af@afmug.com
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: One space versus two spaces (again)
>
> You can tell someone's age by one or two spaces.  For me that is what I
> was taught and bugs the hell out of me when I see single space.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On May 6, 2018, at 5:49 PM, Bill Prince  wrote:
>
> I remember there being a rather exuberant discussion a couple years ago
> about the advantages/disadvantages and goodness/badness of putting a 
> single
> space after a sentence versus putting two spaces. The debate rages on, 
> but
> this one study suggests that putting two spaces makes sentences easier 
> to

> read.
>
> https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/speaking-of-science/
> wp/2018/05/04/one-space-between-each-sentence-they-
> said-science-just-proved-them-wrong-2/?noredirect=on&utm_
> term=.b61d35728d29
>
>
>
> --
>
> bp
> 
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
>
> *Forrest Christian* *CEO, PacketFlux Technologies, Inc.*
>
> Tel: 406-449-3345 | Address: 3577 Countryside Road, Helena, MT 59602
> 

>
> forre...@imach.com | http://www.packetflux.com
>
>  
> 

>   
>
>


--

Carl Peterson

*PORT NETWORKS*

401 E Pratt St, Ste 2553

Baltimore, MD 21202

(410) 637-3707

Re: [AFMUG] OT: One space versus two spaces (again)

[Seth Mattinen]

On 5/8/18 16:15, John Osmon wrote:

Stop worrying about typeface/font.  Just remember:
   "single space" separates words
   "double space" indicates the end of a sentence



For me it's quite literally a tell for how old someone is: before or 
after typewriters. When we were taught typing in middle school it was 
using computers and it was single space. I was *told* that on 
typewriters it was two spaces.

Re: [AFMUG] OT: One space versus two spaces (again)

[John Osmon]

Stop worrying about typeface/font.  Just remember:
  "single space" separates words
  "double space" indicates the end of a sentence


If you fall for the "single space between sentences" rouse, you will
need to rely on context to differentiate a sentence ending, vs. the
space between words when you abbreviate something.

(e.g.  "vs." in my last sentence.)


I'll give up double spaces when I'm forced to give up oxford commas.
Until then, I'll use both make my prose easier to parse.  :-)



On Tue, May 08, 2018 at 08:29:50PM +, Carl Peterson wrote:
> So if the variable width font you are using already includes the proper
> amount of space after a period, about 1.5 "spaces", when you add an extra
> space after a period are you really putting 2.5 "spaces" after the period.
> 
> On Mon, May 7, 2018 at 7:01 PM, SmarterBroadband  wrote:
> 
> > I do 3 after a full stop.
> >
> >
> >
> > *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Gino A. Villarini
> > *Sent:* Monday, May 7, 2018 6:09 AM
> > *To:* af@afmug.com
> > *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT: One space versus two spaces (again)
> >
> >
> >
> > Im a rebel,  I use 3 spaces after a dot!   2 spaces after a coma!   Lol!
> >
> >
> >
> > *From: *Af  on behalf of "li...@packetflux.com" <
> > li...@packetflux.com>
> > *Reply-To: *"af@afmug.com" 
> > *Date: *Monday, May 7, 2018 at 8:04 AM
> > *To: *"af@afmug.com" 
> > *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] OT: One space versus two spaces (again)
> >
> >
> >
> > I like spaces.
> >
> >
> >
> > But I want my tab key to add the correct amount of spaces for the indent.
> >
> >
> >
> > Fortunately it seems that most editors I use to edit code have a setting
> > to do just that.  The ones that don't are a pain in the rear since I'm not
> > consistent in the use of tabs vs spaces since I expect my editor to do the
> > right thing and treat the tab key as a 'insert a few spaces for me' key.
> >
> >
> >
> > As far as single or double spaces... well, I'm a double spacing person
> > when I type, even though I know that a single space is considered 'better'
> > anymore due to modern typefaces inserting the correct amount of space with
> > only a single space.   HTML also ignores double spaces by default, so most
> > of the web runs on single spaces.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > *Gino A. Villarini*
> >
> > President
> >
> > Metro Office Park #18 Suite 304 Guaynabo, Puerto Rico 00968
> >
> > On Sun, May 6, 2018 at 8:25 PM, Robert  wrote:
> >
> > Trivial stuff, the real meat is tabs versus spaces while programming...
> >
> > On 5/6/18 7:21 PM, Chuck McCown wrote:
> >
> > Double spacers of the world unite.  Everybody else can get the fu*k off
> > our lawn.
> >
> > -Original Message- From: ja...@remotelylocated.com
> > Sent: Sunday, May 06, 2018 8:19 PM
> > To: af@afmug.com
> > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: One space versus two spaces (again)
> >
> > You can tell someone's age by one or two spaces.  For me that is what I
> > was taught and bugs the hell out of me when I see single space.
> >
> > Sent from my iPhone
> >
> > On May 6, 2018, at 5:49 PM, Bill Prince  wrote:
> >
> > I remember there being a rather exuberant discussion a couple years ago
> > about the advantages/disadvantages and goodness/badness of putting a single
> > space after a sentence versus putting two spaces. The debate rages on, but
> > this one study suggests that putting two spaces makes sentences easier to
> > read.
> >
> > https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/speaking-of-science/
> > wp/2018/05/04/one-space-between-each-sentence-they-
> > said-science-just-proved-them-wrong-2/?noredirect=on&utm_
> > term=.b61d35728d29
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> >
> > bp
> > 
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> >
> > *Forrest Christian* *CEO, PacketFlux Technologies, Inc.*
> >
> > Tel: 406-449-3345 | Address: 3577 Countryside Road, Helena, MT 59602
> > 
> >
> > forre...@imach.com | http://www.packetflux.com
> >
> >   
> >   
> >
> >
> 
> 
> -- 
> 
> Carl Peterson
> 
> *PORT NETWORKS*
> 
> 401 E Pratt St, Ste 2553
> 
> Baltimore, MD 21202
> 
> (410) 637-3707

Re: [AFMUG] Tower Climber Insurance Sources?

[Chuck McCown]

WC for climbers is probably 20-25% of the payroll rate.  
And you pay that whether or not you are climbing.

From: Sam Lambie 
Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2018 4:43 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: [AFMUG] Tower Climber Insurance Sources?

Hey all, 

My company is getting charged an assload a year for one tower climber (me). 
Supposedly, I have been reclassified as a steel and tower erector and such our 
Workmans Comp and Insurance has doubled. Whom do you guys use and what are the 
ball park figures you are seeing? We would like to get out of this if the 
prices are substantially lower.

Thanks
Sam


-- 

-- 
Sam Lambie
Taosnet Wireless Tech.
575-758-7598 Office
www.Taosnet.com

[AFMUG] Tower Climber Insurance Sources?

[Sam Lambie]

Hey all,

My company is getting charged an assload a year for one tower climber (me).
Supposedly, I have been reclassified as a steel and tower erector and such
our Workmans Comp and Insurance has doubled. Whom do you guys use and what
are the ball park figures you are seeing? We would like to get out of this
if the prices are substantially lower.

Thanks
Sam

-- 
-- 
*Sam Lambie*
Taosnet Wireless Tech.
575-758-7598 Office
www.Taosnet.com 

Re: [AFMUG] 48 vdc Inverteres for Data Room 6kw ?

[Chuck McCown]

I have used a lot of these over the years:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Exeltech-Mx-Series-N-1-Redundant-Expandable-Inverter-System-NSN-6130015361815/273164348175?hash=item3f99dd2b0f

From: Gino A. Villarini 
Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2018 1:58 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: [AFMUG] 48 vdc Inverteres for Data Room 6kw ?

Looking for 48 vdc inverters for data room applications in the range of 6-8 kw

Can be a all in one system ( charger plus Inverter) , must be always online 


  Gino A. Villarini
 
  President 
  Metro Office Park #18 Suite 304 Guaynabo, Puerto Rico 00968 

Re: [AFMUG] 48 vdc Inverteres for Data Room 6kw ?

[Chuck McCown]

I have had bad luck with other alpha products.  

From: Adam Moffett 
Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2018 2:46 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 48 vdc Inverteres for Data Room 6kw ?

The Alpha technologies rep just left my office.
He was pointing me at AMPS-24
http://broadband.alpha.com/download/critical_facilities_power/ups_solutions/indoor_ups/single_phase_ups/alpha_modular_power_system/amps24_hp/amps24_hp_datasheet.pdf

I have no idea what it costs.  The "24" means 24kw max.  They also make an 80kw 
chassis.


-- Original Message --
From: "Gino A. Villarini" 
To: "af@afmug.com" 
Sent: 5/8/2018 3:58:01 PM
Subject: [AFMUG] 48 vdc Inverteres for Data Room 6kw ?

  Looking for 48 vdc inverters for data room applications in the range of 6-8 kw

  Can be a all in one system ( charger plus Inverter) , must be always online 



Gino A. Villarini
   
President 
Metro Office Park #18 Suite 304 Guaynabo, Puerto Rico 00968 

Re: [AFMUG] 48 vdc Inverteres for Data Room 6kw ?

[Chuck McCown]

Wonder what the minimal deployed cost is?

From: Adam Moffett 
Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2018 2:46 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 48 vdc Inverteres for Data Room 6kw ?

The Alpha technologies rep just left my office.
He was pointing me at AMPS-24
http://broadband.alpha.com/download/critical_facilities_power/ups_solutions/indoor_ups/single_phase_ups/alpha_modular_power_system/amps24_hp/amps24_hp_datasheet.pdf

I have no idea what it costs.  The "24" means 24kw max.  They also make an 80kw 
chassis.


-- Original Message --
From: "Gino A. Villarini" 
To: "af@afmug.com" 
Sent: 5/8/2018 3:58:01 PM
Subject: [AFMUG] 48 vdc Inverteres for Data Room 6kw ?

  Looking for 48 vdc inverters for data room applications in the range of 6-8 kw

  Can be a all in one system ( charger plus Inverter) , must be always online 



Gino A. Villarini
   
President 
Metro Office Park #18 Suite 304 Guaynabo, Puerto Rico 00968 

Re: [AFMUG] 48 vdc Inverteres for Data Room 6kw ?

[Adam Moffett]

The Alpha technologies rep just left my office.
He was pointing me at AMPS-24
http://broadband.alpha.com/download/critical_facilities_power/ups_solutions/indoor_ups/single_phase_ups/alpha_modular_power_system/amps24_hp/amps24_hp_datasheet.pdf

I have no idea what it costs.  The "24" means 24kw max.  They also make 
an 80kw chassis.



-- Original Message --
From: "Gino A. Villarini" 
To: "af@afmug.com" 
Sent: 5/8/2018 3:58:01 PM
Subject: [AFMUG] 48 vdc Inverteres for Data Room 6kw ?

Looking for 48 vdc inverters for data room applications in the range of 
6-8 kw


Can be a all in one system ( charger plus Inverter) , must be always 
online




Gino A. Villarini

President
Metro Office Park #18 Suite 304 Guaynabo, Puerto Rico 00968

Re: [AFMUG] OT: One space versus two spaces (again)

[Carl Peterson]

So if the variable width font you are using already includes the proper
amount of space after a period, about 1.5 "spaces", when you add an extra
space after a period are you really putting 2.5 "spaces" after the period.

On Mon, May 7, 2018 at 7:01 PM, SmarterBroadband  wrote:

> I do 3 after a full stop.
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Gino A. Villarini
> *Sent:* Monday, May 7, 2018 6:09 AM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT: One space versus two spaces (again)
>
>
>
> Im a rebel,  I use 3 spaces after a dot!   2 spaces after a coma!   Lol!
>
>
>
> *From: *Af  on behalf of "li...@packetflux.com" <
> li...@packetflux.com>
> *Reply-To: *"af@afmug.com" 
> *Date: *Monday, May 7, 2018 at 8:04 AM
> *To: *"af@afmug.com" 
> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] OT: One space versus two spaces (again)
>
>
>
> I like spaces.
>
>
>
> But I want my tab key to add the correct amount of spaces for the indent.
>
>
>
> Fortunately it seems that most editors I use to edit code have a setting
> to do just that.  The ones that don't are a pain in the rear since I'm not
> consistent in the use of tabs vs spaces since I expect my editor to do the
> right thing and treat the tab key as a 'insert a few spaces for me' key.
>
>
>
> As far as single or double spaces... well, I'm a double spacing person
> when I type, even though I know that a single space is considered 'better'
> anymore due to modern typefaces inserting the correct amount of space with
> only a single space.   HTML also ignores double spaces by default, so most
> of the web runs on single spaces.
>
>
>
>
>
> *Gino A. Villarini*
>
> President
>
> Metro Office Park #18 Suite 304 Guaynabo, Puerto Rico 00968
>
> On Sun, May 6, 2018 at 8:25 PM, Robert  wrote:
>
> Trivial stuff, the real meat is tabs versus spaces while programming...
>
> On 5/6/18 7:21 PM, Chuck McCown wrote:
>
> Double spacers of the world unite.  Everybody else can get the fu*k off
> our lawn.
>
> -Original Message- From: ja...@remotelylocated.com
> Sent: Sunday, May 06, 2018 8:19 PM
> To: af@afmug.com
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: One space versus two spaces (again)
>
> You can tell someone's age by one or two spaces.  For me that is what I
> was taught and bugs the hell out of me when I see single space.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On May 6, 2018, at 5:49 PM, Bill Prince  wrote:
>
> I remember there being a rather exuberant discussion a couple years ago
> about the advantages/disadvantages and goodness/badness of putting a single
> space after a sentence versus putting two spaces. The debate rages on, but
> this one study suggests that putting two spaces makes sentences easier to
> read.
>
> https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/speaking-of-science/
> wp/2018/05/04/one-space-between-each-sentence-they-
> said-science-just-proved-them-wrong-2/?noredirect=on&utm_
> term=.b61d35728d29
>
>
>
> --
>
> bp
> 
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
>
> *Forrest Christian* *CEO, PacketFlux Technologies, Inc.*
>
> Tel: 406-449-3345 | Address: 3577 Countryside Road, Helena, MT 59602
> 
>
> forre...@imach.com | http://www.packetflux.com
>
>   
>   
>
>


-- 

Carl Peterson

*PORT NETWORKS*

401 E Pratt St, Ste 2553

Baltimore, MD 21202

(410) 637-3707

Re: [AFMUG] crowdsource troubleshooting

[Chuck McCown]

.375 amp per wire.  So .750 amp per pair.  
At least that is what I think I finally settled on.  

From: Adam Moffett 
Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2018 10:53 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] crowdsource troubleshooting

If that's right, would that mean 0.5amp on 4&5 and 0.25amp on 3&6,7&8 ?
Is it a 0.5amp fuse?


-- Original Message --
From: "Jeremy" 
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: 5/8/2018 11:42:35 AM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] crowdsource troubleshooting

  No, that is not true, it adds an additional ground on 3&6.  So to obtain a 
gigabit connection you have + on 4&5 and - on 3&6, 7&8.  All of the present day 
UBNT gear is like this since they added gigabit Ethernet.  When we upgrade we 
add a jumper to 3&6 to get it to negotiate at gigabit, but they seem to operate 
at 100FDX without it.

  On Tue, May 8, 2018 at 9:30 AM, Jacob Turner  wrote:

The Prism Gen 2 uses "standard" UBNT passive 24v POE.  +4,5 -7,8.  I've 
seen netonix switches claiming as much as 12 watts draw from one when running.  
I wouldn't be surprised if their startup draw may be a bit higher.

On Tue, May 8, 2018 at 8:16 AM,  wrote:

  I need help in understanding a product failure.

  I have now had two customers with similar failures in my POE fuse 
product.  The fuses are blowing.  
  So far it is limited to the fuses on pins 4/5.

  One customer is using:
  UBNT 5AC Prism Gen 2 radio, Mikrotik 411 boards, using both poes and 
netonix as the power supply.

  What pins and polarities does that radio use for POE?  How much current?

  I may need higher rated fuses or slower fuses.  But I can only go so high 
before it is not protecting Netonix thus becoming an expensive CAT5 splice.  

  My ideas so far:

  I need a slower reacting fuse.

  I need a higher amp rating fuse.  (not sure how high I can go and still 
protect Netonix)

  Some loads have unanticipated currents on those wires.

  Plugging in when powered may cause a connection sequence problem where if 
pin 4 makes contact first the whole load will go through that wire and blow 
that fuse.

Re: [AFMUG] 48 vdc Inverteres for Data Room 6kw ?

[Chuck McCown]

I have always used exeltech but I am really curious as to what other options 
may be out there too.

I also need to be always online.  I build a transfer switch that cuts in 
commercial power if the inverter fails.  
That was pretty easy.

From: Gino A. Villarini 
Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2018 1:58 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: [AFMUG] 48 vdc Inverteres for Data Room 6kw ?

Looking for 48 vdc inverters for data room applications in the range of 6-8 kw

Can be a all in one system ( charger plus Inverter) , must be always online 


  Gino A. Villarini
 
  President 
  Metro Office Park #18 Suite 304 Guaynabo, Puerto Rico 00968 

[AFMUG] 48 vdc Inverteres for Data Room 6kw ?

[Gino A. Villarini]

Looking for 48 vdc inverters for data room applications in the range of 6-8 kw

Can be a all in one system ( charger plus Inverter) , must be always online



Gino A. Villarini


President
Metro Office Park #18 Suite 304 Guaynabo, Puerto Rico 00968

[cid:aeronet-logo_310cfc3e-6691-4f69-bd49-b37b834b9238.png]

Re: [AFMUG] crowdsource troubleshooting

[Josh Luthman]

Any polarity or any pinout?  Pretty sure the Ubnt AirMax NanoBeam 25dbi
units will do gigabit but only do the old fashion 24v 45+ 78-.  Reverse
polarity seems awfully sketch to me.


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Tue, May 8, 2018 at 2:25 PM, Mathew Howard  wrote:

> As far as I know, all of the ubnt gear with gigabit ports will take any
> poe polarity... As long as there's a pair with negative and a pair with
> positive, they'll turn on. I don't see that ubnt adding a second negative
> pair will really affect anything, unless netonix did that as well.
>
> On Tue, May 8, 2018, 11:53 AM Adam Moffett  wrote:
>
>> If that's right, would that mean 0.5amp on 4&5 and 0.25amp on 3&6,7&8 ?
>> Is it a 0.5amp fuse?
>>
>>
>> -- Original Message --
>> From: "Jeremy" 
>> To: af@afmug.com
>> Sent: 5/8/2018 11:42:35 AM
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] crowdsource troubleshooting
>>
>> No, that is not true, it adds an additional ground on 3&6.  So to obtain
>> a gigabit connection you have + on 4&5 and - on 3&6, 7&8.  All of the
>> present day UBNT gear is like this since they added gigabit Ethernet.  When
>> we upgrade we add a jumper to 3&6 to get it to negotiate at gigabit, but
>> they seem to operate at 100FDX without it.
>>
>> On Tue, May 8, 2018 at 9:30 AM, Jacob Turner 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> The Prism Gen 2 uses "standard" UBNT passive 24v POE.  +4,5 -7,8.  I've
>>> seen netonix switches claiming as much as 12 watts draw from one when
>>> running.  I wouldn't be surprised if their startup draw may be a bit higher.
>>>
>>> On Tue, May 8, 2018 at 8:16 AM,  wrote:
>>>
 I need help in understanding a product failure.

 I have now had two customers with similar failures in my POE fuse
 product.  The fuses are blowing.
 So far it is limited to the fuses on pins 4/5.

 One customer is using:
 UBNT 5AC Prism Gen 2 radio, Mikrotik 411 boards, using both poes and
 netonix as the power supply.

 What pins and polarities does that radio use for POE?  How much current?

 I may need higher rated fuses or slower fuses.  But I can only go so
 high before it is not protecting Netonix thus becoming an expensive CAT5
 splice.

 My ideas so far:

 I need a slower reacting fuse.

 I need a higher amp rating fuse.  (not sure how high I can go and still
 protect Netonix)

 Some loads have unanticipated currents on those wires.

 Plugging in when powered may cause a connection sequence problem where
 if pin 4 makes contact first the whole load will go through that wire and
 blow that fuse.


>>>
>>>
>>

Re: [AFMUG] crowdsource troubleshooting

[Mathew Howard]

As far as I know, all of the ubnt gear with gigabit ports will take any poe
polarity... As long as there's a pair with negative and a pair with
positive, they'll turn on. I don't see that ubnt adding a second negative
pair will really affect anything, unless netonix did that as well.

On Tue, May 8, 2018, 11:53 AM Adam Moffett  wrote:

> If that's right, would that mean 0.5amp on 4&5 and 0.25amp on 3&6,7&8 ?
> Is it a 0.5amp fuse?
>
>
> -- Original Message --
> From: "Jeremy" 
> To: af@afmug.com
> Sent: 5/8/2018 11:42:35 AM
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] crowdsource troubleshooting
>
> No, that is not true, it adds an additional ground on 3&6.  So to obtain a
> gigabit connection you have + on 4&5 and - on 3&6, 7&8.  All of the present
> day UBNT gear is like this since they added gigabit Ethernet.  When we
> upgrade we add a jumper to 3&6 to get it to negotiate at gigabit, but they
> seem to operate at 100FDX without it.
>
> On Tue, May 8, 2018 at 9:30 AM, Jacob Turner 
> wrote:
>
>> The Prism Gen 2 uses "standard" UBNT passive 24v POE.  +4,5 -7,8.  I've
>> seen netonix switches claiming as much as 12 watts draw from one when
>> running.  I wouldn't be surprised if their startup draw may be a bit higher.
>>
>> On Tue, May 8, 2018 at 8:16 AM,  wrote:
>>
>>> I need help in understanding a product failure.
>>>
>>> I have now had two customers with similar failures in my POE fuse
>>> product.  The fuses are blowing.
>>> So far it is limited to the fuses on pins 4/5.
>>>
>>> One customer is using:
>>> UBNT 5AC Prism Gen 2 radio, Mikrotik 411 boards, using both poes and
>>> netonix as the power supply.
>>>
>>> What pins and polarities does that radio use for POE?  How much current?
>>>
>>> I may need higher rated fuses or slower fuses.  But I can only go so
>>> high before it is not protecting Netonix thus becoming an expensive CAT5
>>> splice.
>>>
>>> My ideas so far:
>>>
>>> I need a slower reacting fuse.
>>>
>>> I need a higher amp rating fuse.  (not sure how high I can go and still
>>> protect Netonix)
>>>
>>> Some loads have unanticipated currents on those wires.
>>>
>>> Plugging in when powered may cause a connection sequence problem where
>>> if pin 4 makes contact first the whole load will go through that wire and
>>> blow that fuse.
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>

Re: [AFMUG] GPS problems around 11:30 to 1:30 every night

[Josh Luthman]

No resolution.

I started graphing the epmp satellites visible and tracked.  Visible is
always above 7 with an average of 12.44.  However the tracked dips down to
0 around 7-12 at night with an average of 6.93.

So what would make the GPS puck see the satellites but not track them?  Why
would it matter what time of day?


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Mon, May 7, 2018 at 11:02 PM, Steve Jones 
wrote:

> did you find any resolution? we are starting to see this between 2pm and
> 6pm at different sites, but not all APs at the sites, only common thin is
> theyre mounted on the east side, but have full 360 degree sky. switching to
> internal fixes it, but internal is just generating sync isnt it? it takes
> away the front/back option in the gui
> EPMP is rock solid stuff, with the exception of puck issues
>
> On Wed, Apr 11, 2018 at 10:14 PM, Josh Luthman <
> j...@imaginenetworksllc.com> wrote:
>
>> FWIW it's on the south side of a water tower.  There's little to no
>> signal from the northern sky.
>>
>> Of course I'm pretty sure the tower isn't moving some weird way every
>> night...
>>
>> Josh Luthman
>> Office: 937-552-2340
>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>> 1100 Wayne St
>> 
>> Suite 1337
>> 
>> Troy, OH 45373
>> 
>>
>> On Fri, Apr 6, 2018, 6:00 PM Bill Prince  wrote:
>>
>>> Just checking ours. I thought it happened once every month or two, but I
>>> guess it's not even that often. The snapshot from the last 3 months
>>> indicate that it got close to losing it in week 12, but it seems to have
>>> lived through it, even though it got down to 3 satellites tracked.
>>>
>>> bp
>>> 
>>>
>>>
>>> On 4/6/2018 2:48 PM, Brian Sullivan wrote:
>>>
>>> We have this at a couple sites each year.  Usually, I can mount the GPS
>>> antenna in a different place and solve the issue.  Whats interesting is, I
>>> don't see this issue with the SyncBoxes, only CMM Micro.  And I have both
>>> at the same towers affected.
>>>
>>> On 4/6/2018 4:39 PM, Bill Prince wrote:
>>>
>>> We have a SyncInjector mounted on the south side of a concrete building.
>>> The building is thick concrete ( > 12"),  and extends up above the location
>>> of the GPS antenna 30 or 40 feet. The building is also a shallow "V" shape
>>> with the GPS antenna at inside base of the V. So the GPS antenna gets about
>>> 170° view of the sky to the south.
>>>
>>> It goes through a periodic cycle of visibility, but it's not the same
>>> time every night, or even every day.
>>>
>>>
>>> bp
>>> 
>>>
>>>
>>> On 4/6/2018 2:20 PM, Forrest Christian (List Account) wrote:
>>>
>>> But the question is, why at the same time every day?   Especially since
>>> the gps satellites don't orbit on a 24 hour period...   that's what has me
>>> troubled with my customer.
>>>
>>> On Fri, Apr 6, 2018, 2:11 PM Bill Prince  wrote:
>>>
 Exposure to the north or south should not make a significant
 difference. GPS satellites, excepting the WAAS satellites, are not in
 geostationary orbits. They are (mostly?) in medium earth orbit of around
 12,000 miles.

 I think it may be more of how much of the sky they can see.

 bp
 


 On 4/6/2018 1:45 PM, Dave wrote:

 how much exposure to the northern hemisphere does it have?
 If I remember those antennas are fairly small


 On 04/06/2018 10:15 AM, Josh Luthman wrote:

 I have an epmp that has GPS problems and goes into the hold timer for a
 few minutes every single night for the last many months (maybe even a
 year).

 Didn't think much of it until I noticed all of the times being right
 around midnight, give or take...

 WTF?  Any ideas what's causing it?

 Josh Luthman
 Office: 937-552-2340
 Direct: 937-552-2343
 1100 Wayne St
 
 Suite 1337
 
 Troy, OH 45373
 


 --



>>>
>>>
>>>
>

Re: [AFMUG] crowdsource troubleshooting

[Adam Moffett]

If that's right, would that mean 0.5amp on 4&5 and 0.25amp on 3&6,7&8 ?
Is it a 0.5amp fuse?


-- Original Message --
From: "Jeremy" 
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: 5/8/2018 11:42:35 AM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] crowdsource troubleshooting

No, that is not true, it adds an additional ground on 3&6.  So to 
obtain a gigabit connection you have + on 4&5 and - on 3&6, 7&8.  All 
of the present day UBNT gear is like this since they added gigabit 
Ethernet.  When we upgrade we add a jumper to 3&6 to get it to 
negotiate at gigabit, but they seem to operate at 100FDX without it.


On Tue, May 8, 2018 at 9:30 AM, Jacob Turner  
wrote:
The Prism Gen 2 uses "standard" UBNT passive 24v POE.  +4,5 -7,8.  
I've seen netonix switches claiming as much as 12 watts draw from one 
when running.  I wouldn't be surprised if their startup draw may be a 
bit higher.


On Tue, May 8, 2018 at 8:16 AM,  wrote:

I need help in understanding a product failure.

I have now had two customers with similar failures in my POE fuse 
product.  The fuses are blowing.

So far it is limited to the fuses on pins 4/5.

One customer is using:
UBNT 5AC Prism Gen 2 radio, Mikrotik 411 boards, using both poes and 
netonix as the power supply.


What pins and polarities does that radio use for POE?  How much 
current?


I may need higher rated fuses or slower fuses.  But I can only go so 
high before it is not protecting Netonix thus becoming an expensive 
CAT5 splice.


My ideas so far:

I need a slower reacting fuse.

I need a higher amp rating fuse.  (not sure how high I can go and 
still protect Netonix)


Some loads have unanticipated currents on those wires.

Plugging in when powered may cause a connection sequence problem 
where if pin 4 makes contact first the whole load will go through 
that wire and blow that fuse.

Re: [AFMUG] crowdsource troubleshooting

[Jeremy]

This is the part that confuses me.  If powering with a Netonix, there is no
setting for 'add a ground on 3&6', yet somehow it works and maintains a
gigabit connection when powering these devices.  Perhaps they found that
they could ground 3&6 on legacy devices as well and it would still work
fine?  Netonix will also power M-series devices fine, which did not add
these pins in play.  Perhaps someone else can explain how this is working.
Chris??

On Tue, May 8, 2018 at 9:42 AM, Jeremy  wrote:

> No, that is not true, it adds an additional ground on 3&6.  So to obtain a
> gigabit connection you have + on 4&5 and - on 3&6, 7&8.  All of the present
> day UBNT gear is like this since they added gigabit Ethernet.  When we
> upgrade we add a jumper to 3&6 to get it to negotiate at gigabit, but they
> seem to operate at 100FDX without it.
>
> On Tue, May 8, 2018 at 9:30 AM, Jacob Turner 
> wrote:
>
>> The Prism Gen 2 uses "standard" UBNT passive 24v POE.  +4,5 -7,8.  I've
>> seen netonix switches claiming as much as 12 watts draw from one when
>> running.  I wouldn't be surprised if their startup draw may be a bit higher.
>>
>> On Tue, May 8, 2018 at 8:16 AM,  wrote:
>>
>>> I need help in understanding a product failure.
>>>
>>> I have now had two customers with similar failures in my POE fuse
>>> product.  The fuses are blowing.
>>> So far it is limited to the fuses on pins 4/5.
>>>
>>> One customer is using:
>>> UBNT 5AC Prism Gen 2 radio, Mikrotik 411 boards, using both poes and
>>> netonix as the power supply.
>>>
>>> What pins and polarities does that radio use for POE?  How much current?
>>>
>>> I may need higher rated fuses or slower fuses.  But I can only go so
>>> high before it is not protecting Netonix thus becoming an expensive CAT5
>>> splice.
>>>
>>> My ideas so far:
>>>
>>> I need a slower reacting fuse.
>>>
>>> I need a higher amp rating fuse.  (not sure how high I can go and still
>>> protect Netonix)
>>>
>>> Some loads have unanticipated currents on those wires.
>>>
>>> Plugging in when powered may cause a connection sequence problem where
>>> if pin 4 makes contact first the whole load will go through that wire and
>>> blow that fuse.
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>

Re: [AFMUG] crowdsource troubleshooting

[Jeremy]

No, that is not true, it adds an additional ground on 3&6.  So to obtain a
gigabit connection you have + on 4&5 and - on 3&6, 7&8.  All of the present
day UBNT gear is like this since they added gigabit Ethernet.  When we
upgrade we add a jumper to 3&6 to get it to negotiate at gigabit, but they
seem to operate at 100FDX without it.

On Tue, May 8, 2018 at 9:30 AM, Jacob Turner  wrote:

> The Prism Gen 2 uses "standard" UBNT passive 24v POE.  +4,5 -7,8.  I've
> seen netonix switches claiming as much as 12 watts draw from one when
> running.  I wouldn't be surprised if their startup draw may be a bit higher.
>
> On Tue, May 8, 2018 at 8:16 AM,  wrote:
>
>> I need help in understanding a product failure.
>>
>> I have now had two customers with similar failures in my POE fuse
>> product.  The fuses are blowing.
>> So far it is limited to the fuses on pins 4/5.
>>
>> One customer is using:
>> UBNT 5AC Prism Gen 2 radio, Mikrotik 411 boards, using both poes and
>> netonix as the power supply.
>>
>> What pins and polarities does that radio use for POE?  How much current?
>>
>> I may need higher rated fuses or slower fuses.  But I can only go so high
>> before it is not protecting Netonix thus becoming an expensive CAT5
>> splice.
>>
>> My ideas so far:
>>
>> I need a slower reacting fuse.
>>
>> I need a higher amp rating fuse.  (not sure how high I can go and still
>> protect Netonix)
>>
>> Some loads have unanticipated currents on those wires.
>>
>> Plugging in when powered may cause a connection sequence problem where if
>> pin 4 makes contact first the whole load will go through that wire and blow
>> that fuse.
>>
>>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] crowdsource troubleshooting

[Jacob Turner]

The Prism Gen 2 uses "standard" UBNT passive 24v POE.  +4,5 -7,8.  I've
seen netonix switches claiming as much as 12 watts draw from one when
running.  I wouldn't be surprised if their startup draw may be a bit higher.

On Tue, May 8, 2018 at 8:16 AM,  wrote:

> I need help in understanding a product failure.
>
> I have now had two customers with similar failures in my POE fuse
> product.  The fuses are blowing.
> So far it is limited to the fuses on pins 4/5.
>
> One customer is using:
> UBNT 5AC Prism Gen 2 radio, Mikrotik 411 boards, using both poes and
> netonix as the power supply.
>
> What pins and polarities does that radio use for POE?  How much current?
>
> I may need higher rated fuses or slower fuses.  But I can only go so high
> before it is not protecting Netonix thus becoming an expensive CAT5
> splice.
>
> My ideas so far:
>
> I need a slower reacting fuse.
>
> I need a higher amp rating fuse.  (not sure how high I can go and still
> protect Netonix)
>
> Some loads have unanticipated currents on those wires.
>
> Plugging in when powered may cause a connection sequence problem where if
> pin 4 makes contact first the whole load will go through that wire and blow
> that fuse.
>
>

[AFMUG] crowdsource troubleshooting

[chuck]

I need help in understanding a product failure.

I have now had two customers with similar failures in my POE fuse product.  The 
fuses are blowing.  
So far it is limited to the fuses on pins 4/5.

One customer is using:
UBNT 5AC Prism Gen 2 radio, Mikrotik 411 boards, using both poes and netonix as 
the power supply.

What pins and polarities does that radio use for POE?  How much current?

I may need higher rated fuses or slower fuses.  But I can only go so high 
before it is not protecting Netonix thus becoming an expensive CAT5 splice.  

My ideas so far:

I need a slower reacting fuse.

I need a higher amp rating fuse.  (not sure how high I can go and still protect 
Netonix)

Some loads have unanticipated currents on those wires.

Plugging in when powered may cause a connection sequence problem where if pin 4 
makes contact first the whole load will go through that wire and blow that fuse.