[AFMUG] PTP 60 miles 400Mbps

[Charles Regan]

Hello everyone,

What would you guys use for a 60 miles PTP link? 400Mbps. Oh and it's over
seawater... 20k$ budget.

SAF, Trango both said sorry, can't do.
Mimosa B5C with space diversity and 3k$ maybe.

We do have a working AF5x with a 34dbi dish doing 150Mbps aggregate.
The link gets bad sometimes because of ducting/reflection.

How could I use two parabolics dish on different polarity with the AF5x for
space diversity? Splitter?

Should a B5C perform better or worse ?

Charles

Re: [AFMUG] PTP 60 miles 400Mbps

[Charles Regan]

Well here's SAF response:
*My link planning team confirmed SAF does not have a viable 5GHz radio that
can achieve your objective for this path.*

Trango:
*rough calculation suggests that even using space diversity will yield a 3
- 4 'nines' link (predicted reliability) at around 200Mbps FDX.  The use of
space diversity will also add considerably to the cost (a complete link
might be upwards of $50K).*

I'll ask SIAE...

On Oct 31, 2016 9:19 PM, "Eric Kuhnke"  wrote:

> 20k?
>
> SIAE AlfoPlus2 6 GHz 1024QAM dual polarity link. Or two pairs of alfoplus1
> 1024qam (single polarity) radios running in parallel, opposite polarities,
> equal OSPF cost between routers.
>
> Or Trango's 1024QAM 6GHz radios.
>
> Why not SAF?  I thought there was a 6 GHz version of the Integra now.
>
>
>
> On Mon, Oct 31, 2016 at 5:10 PM, Charles Regan 
> wrote:
>
>> Hello everyone,
>>
>> What would you guys use for a 60 miles PTP link? 400Mbps. Oh and it's
>> over seawater... 20k$ budget.
>>
>> SAF, Trango both said sorry, can't do.
>> Mimosa B5C with space diversity and 3k$ maybe.
>>
>> We do have a working AF5x with a 34dbi dish doing 150Mbps aggregate.
>> The link gets bad sometimes because of ducting/reflection.
>>
>> How could I use two parabolics dish on different polarity with the AF5x
>> for space diversity? Splitter?
>>
>> Should a B5C perform better or worse ?
>>
>> Charles
>>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] PTP 60 miles 400Mbps

[Charles Regan]

What's a realistic budget?
50k$ ?

On Oct 31, 2016 9:42 PM, "TJ Trout"  wrote:

> Your speed/distance/budget is unrealistic
>
> On Mon, Oct 31, 2016 at 5:39 PM, Cassidy B. Larson 
> wrote:
>
>> Did SAF try 6GHz? Or did they only try 5GHz?
>> Seems a 2+0 at 6 would probably work at that distance.. although seawater
>> is a factor I dunno about
>>
>>
>> On Oct 31, 2016, at 18:32, Charles Regan  wrote:
>>
>> Well here's SAF response:
>> *My link planning team confirmed SAF does not have a viable 5GHz radio
>> that can achieve your objective for this path.*
>>
>> Trango:
>> *rough calculation suggests that even using space diversity will yield a
>> 3 - 4 'nines' link (predicted reliability) at around 200Mbps FDX.  The use
>> of space diversity will also add considerably to the cost (a complete link
>> might be upwards of $50K).*
>>
>> I'll ask SIAE...
>>
>> On Oct 31, 2016 9:19 PM, "Eric Kuhnke"  wrote:
>>
>>> 20k?
>>>
>>> SIAE AlfoPlus2 6 GHz 1024QAM dual polarity link. Or two pairs of
>>> alfoplus1 1024qam (single polarity) radios running in parallel, opposite
>>> polarities, equal OSPF cost between routers.
>>>
>>> Or Trango's 1024QAM 6GHz radios.
>>>
>>> Why not SAF?  I thought there was a 6 GHz version of the Integra now.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, Oct 31, 2016 at 5:10 PM, Charles Regan 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hello everyone,
>>>>
>>>> What would you guys use for a 60 miles PTP link? 400Mbps. Oh and it's
>>>> over seawater... 20k$ budget.
>>>>
>>>> SAF, Trango both said sorry, can't do.
>>>> Mimosa B5C with space diversity and 3k$ maybe.
>>>>
>>>> We do have a working AF5x with a 34dbi dish doing 150Mbps aggregate.
>>>> The link gets bad sometimes because of ducting/reflection.
>>>>
>>>> How could I use two parabolics dish on different polarity with the AF5x
>>>> for space diversity? Splitter?
>>>>
>>>> Should a B5C perform better or worse ?
>>>>
>>>> Charles
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>

Re: [AFMUG] PTP 60 miles 400Mbps

[Charles Regan]

1272ft and 347ft

On Oct 31, 2016 9:48 PM, "Gino Villarini"  wrote:

> its doable under certain circumstances, what are your heights on both ends?
>
> On Mon, Oct 31, 2016 at 8:42 PM, TJ Trout  wrote:
>
>> Your speed/distance/budget is unrealistic
>>
>> On Mon, Oct 31, 2016 at 5:39 PM, Cassidy B. Larson 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Did SAF try 6GHz? Or did they only try 5GHz?
>>> Seems a 2+0 at 6 would probably work at that distance.. although
>>> seawater is a factor I dunno about
>>>
>>>
>>> On Oct 31, 2016, at 18:32, Charles Regan 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Well here's SAF response:
>>> *My link planning team confirmed SAF does not have a viable 5GHz radio
>>> that can achieve your objective for this path.*
>>>
>>> Trango:
>>> *rough calculation suggests that even using space diversity will yield a
>>> 3 - 4 'nines' link (predicted reliability) at around 200Mbps FDX.  The use
>>> of space diversity will also add considerably to the cost (a complete link
>>> might be upwards of $50K).*
>>>
>>> I'll ask SIAE...
>>>
>>> On Oct 31, 2016 9:19 PM, "Eric Kuhnke"  wrote:
>>>
>>>> 20k?
>>>>
>>>> SIAE AlfoPlus2 6 GHz 1024QAM dual polarity link. Or two pairs of
>>>> alfoplus1 1024qam (single polarity) radios running in parallel, opposite
>>>> polarities, equal OSPF cost between routers.
>>>>
>>>> Or Trango's 1024QAM 6GHz radios.
>>>>
>>>> Why not SAF?  I thought there was a 6 GHz version of the Integra now.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, Oct 31, 2016 at 5:10 PM, Charles Regan >>> > wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Hello everyone,
>>>>>
>>>>> What would you guys use for a 60 miles PTP link? 400Mbps. Oh and it's
>>>>> over seawater... 20k$ budget.
>>>>>
>>>>> SAF, Trango both said sorry, can't do.
>>>>> Mimosa B5C with space diversity and 3k$ maybe.
>>>>>
>>>>> We do have a working AF5x with a 34dbi dish doing 150Mbps aggregate.
>>>>> The link gets bad sometimes because of ducting/reflection.
>>>>>
>>>>> How could I use two parabolics dish on different polarity with the
>>>>> AF5x for space diversity? Splitter?
>>>>>
>>>>> Should a B5C perform better or worse ?
>>>>>
>>>>> Charles
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>
>

Re: [AFMUG] PTP 60 miles 400Mbps

[Charles Regan]

400Mbps in one direction.

On Oct 31, 2016 9:52 PM, "David Milholen"  wrote:

> IS 400Mbs in one direction or both or aggregate?
>
> Budget is an issue for that size pipe one way for sure.
>
> PTP820C 1+0 may do it at 6Ghz Spatial diversity for sure but pricing has
> you.
>
>
>
> On 10/31/2016 7:10 PM, Charles Regan wrote:
>
> Hello everyone,
>
> What would you guys use for a 60 miles PTP link? 400Mbps. Oh and it's over
> seawater... 20k$ budget.
>
> SAF, Trango both said sorry, can't do.
> Mimosa B5C with space diversity and 3k$ maybe.
>
> We do have a working AF5x with a 34dbi dish doing 150Mbps aggregate.
> The link gets bad sometimes because of ducting/reflection.
>
> How could I use two parabolics dish on different polarity with the AF5x
> for space diversity? Splitter?
>
> Should a B5C perform better or worse ?
>
> Charles
>
>
> --
>

Re: [AFMUG] Tesla powerwall 2

[Charles Regan]

We are using Meanwell TN3000, pure sine wave 3000W inverter charger. It has
a solar plug too. Cost is 950$

Small sites has the 1500W version the the inverter and Winston 24v 60Ah
lithium battery.

On Oct 31, 2016 10:17 PM, "Adam Moffett"  wrote:

> 60% DOD is pretty conservative.  Do you lose power a lot?  Losing power at
> this site is somewhat of a hypothetical event.  A Mack truck on the highway
> wiped out 5 poles and we ran on propane for a whole day.  The previous
> outage was years before, and I don't expect another one for a few more
> years.
>
> ...and ideally I'm only on battery for a minute or two while the genny
> gets started.
>
>
> This was my thinking as well.. With my AGM setups I’m not comfortable
> pushing beyond 60% DOD.. I’m also paying a lot for 10-year rated large Ah
> AGM batteries these days.
>
>
>
>
> *Peter Kranz *www.UnwiredLtd.com 
> Desk: 510-868-1614 x100
> Mobile: 510-207-
> pkr...@unwiredltd.com
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com ] *On
> Behalf Of *Mathew Howard
> *Sent:* Monday, October 31, 2016 2:33 PM
> *To:* af  
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Tesla powerwall 2
>
>
>
> Figuring those prices, you're not going to end up too far off from the
> price of the Tesla for the same run time. Tripling the batteries will put
> you up to somewhere around $4500, for basically the same kWh, but if you
> factor in being able to 100% discharge the Tesla setup, you're going to
> need to add a bunch more battery.
>
> I wonder how the life expectancy compares...
>
>
>
> On Mon, Oct 31, 2016 at 2:51 PM, Adam Moffett  wrote:
>
> That's the same link I sent earlier, bro.
>
> $3049 is list priceyou'll pay closer to $2500 - $2600.
>
>
>
> On 10/31/2016 3:47 PM, Chuck McCown wrote:
>
> This looks like it:
>
> http://www.aimscorp.net/12000-Watt-Inverter-Charger-48-volt-
> 120-240vac.html
>
> �
>
> $3409/12000=28.4 cents per watt.�
>
> Not too bad considering there is a battery charger in there.
>
> �
>
> *From:* Adam Moffett
>
> *Sent:* Monday, October 31, 2016 1:01 PM
>
> *To:* af@afmug.com
>
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Tesla powerwall 2
>
> �
>
> http://www.aimscorp.net/12000-Watt-Inverter-Charger-48-volt-
> 120-240vac.html
>
> This has a street price of $2500.� The four SLA batteries were (I think)
> $160 each.� The 3/0 battery cable was not free, but I don't remember what
> it cost.� This is only 4800 Wh, but it's trivial to add more/bigger
> batteries.�
>
> This doesn't have any built in network monitoring though.does the
> Powerwall?
>
> �
>
>
>
> On 10/31/2016 2:14 PM, Peter Kranz wrote:
>
> The new tesla powerwall 2 appears to be an interesting UPS option now that
> it has a build in inverter/charger. 14kWh for $5500, so would run most of
> my sites for about 24 hours. When I backed out the costs for 14kWh of our
> standard AGM cells and inverter, I think this price is quite reasonable.
>
> �
>
> https://www.tesla.com/powerwall
>
> �
>
>
> *Peter Kranz *www.UnwiredLtd.com 
> Desk: 510-868-1614 x100
> Mobile: 510-207-
> pkr...@unwiredltd.com
>
> �
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] PTP 60 miles 400Mbps

[Charles Regan]

our Af5x link

On Oct 31, 2016 10:32 PM, "Ken Hohhof"  wrote:

> Remember that the path analysis involves frequency, xmt power, rcv
> sensitivity, antenna gain, and the rest is the RF path itself.  I think you
> might be focusing too much on the equipment.  If the numbers don’t add up,
> the equipment will probably have only incremental effect on the results.
>
>
>
> It’s like hoping to find the magic golf clubs that will turn you from a 20
> handicap golfer into a scratch golfer.
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Charles Regan
> *Sent:* Monday, October 31, 2016 8:12 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] PTP 60 miles 400Mbps
>
>
>
> 8ft dishes that's a problem.
> On one side it need to be on top of the 300ft tower.
>
>
>
> On Oct 31, 2016 10:05 PM, "Gino Villarini"  wrote:
>
> SAF intergra with 60 ghz channels and some nice 8 ft dishes
>
>
>
> On Mon, Oct 31, 2016 at 8:59 PM, Charles Regan 
> wrote:
>
> 400Mbps in one direction.
>
>
>
> On Oct 31, 2016 9:52 PM, "David Milholen"  wrote:
>
> IS 400Mbs in one direction or both or aggregate?
>
> Budget is an issue for that size pipe one way for sure.
>
> PTP820C 1+0 may do it at 6Ghz Spatial diversity for sure but pricing has
> you.
>
>
>
>
>
> On 10/31/2016 7:10 PM, Charles Regan wrote:
>
> Hello everyone,
>
> What would you guys use for a 60 miles PTP link? 400Mbps. Oh and it's over
> seawater... 20k$ budget.
>
> SAF, Trango both said sorry, can't do.
> Mimosa B5C with space diversity and 3k$ maybe.
>
> We do have a working AF5x with a 34dbi dish doing 150Mbps aggregate.
> The link gets bad sometimes because of ducting/reflection.
>
> How could I use two parabolics dish on different polarity with the AF5x
> for space diversity? Splitter?
>
> Should a B5C perform better or worse ?
>
> Charles
>
>
>
> --
>
>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] PTP 60 miles 400Mbps

[Charles Regan]

Magdalen Islands QC to
Cheticamp NS

46.5777,-60.9837
47.2244,-61.9419

On Oct 31, 2016 10:38 PM, "Jeff Broadwick - Lists"  wrote:

> Where is the link?  If it's desert it's one thing.  If it's Midwest it's
> another.
>
> Jeff Broadwick
> ConVergence Technologies, Inc.
> 312-205-2519 Office
> 574-220-7826 Cell
> jbroadw...@converge-tech.com
>
> On Oct 31, 2016, at 8:10 PM, Charles Regan 
> wrote:
>
> Hello everyone,
>
> What would you guys use for a 60 miles PTP link? 400Mbps. Oh and it's over
> seawater... 20k$ budget.
>
> SAF, Trango both said sorry, can't do.
> Mimosa B5C with space diversity and 3k$ maybe.
>
> We do have a working AF5x with a 34dbi dish doing 150Mbps aggregate.
> The link gets bad sometimes because of ducting/reflection.
>
> How could I use two parabolics dish on different polarity with the AF5x
> for space diversity? Splitter?
>
> Should a B5C perform better or worse ?
>
> Charles
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] PTP 60 miles 400Mbps

[Charles Regan]

That's interesting. Using multiple frequency and hope ducting affects only
some of them? How many DB loss from the multiplexer?

On Oct 31, 2016 11:11 PM, "Jeremy"  wrote:

> If you are already using AF5X, would this be a possibility?[image: Inline
> image 1]
>
> On Mon, Oct 31, 2016 at 8:00 PM, Jaime Solorza 
> wrote:
>
>> We did a link from across the bay in Corpus Cristi with Tsunami 5Ghz
>> radios using 4 ft. Dishes using horizontal polarity.   5 story building on
>> one side and 120 ft.  Tower at other side.   These were 10mbps radios and
>> we got almost 100% across.  All the other links on same roof and other
>> water as well used vertical polarity and had ducting issues.   With MIMO
>> and all kinds of polarity options I am sure you can find a solution.
>> Antenna diversity must be engineered for path and conditions.   Where are
>> you trying to shoot from?
>>
>> On Oct 31, 2016 6:39 PM, "Cassidy B. Larson"  wrote:
>>
>>> Did SAF try 6GHz? Or did they only try 5GHz?
>>> Seems a 2+0 at 6 would probably work at that distance.. although
>>> seawater is a factor I dunno about
>>>
>>>
>>> On Oct 31, 2016, at 18:32, Charles Regan 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Well here's SAF response:
>>> *My link planning team confirmed SAF does not have a viable 5GHz radio
>>> that can achieve your objective for this path.*
>>>
>>> Trango:
>>> *rough calculation suggests that even using space diversity will yield a
>>> 3 - 4 'nines' link (predicted reliability) at around 200Mbps FDX.  The use
>>> of space diversity will also add considerably to the cost (a complete link
>>> might be upwards of $50K).*
>>>
>>> I'll ask SIAE...
>>>
>>> On Oct 31, 2016 9:19 PM, "Eric Kuhnke"  wrote:
>>>
>>>> 20k?
>>>>
>>>> SIAE AlfoPlus2 6 GHz 1024QAM dual polarity link. Or two pairs of
>>>> alfoplus1 1024qam (single polarity) radios running in parallel, opposite
>>>> polarities, equal OSPF cost between routers.
>>>>
>>>> Or Trango's 1024QAM 6GHz radios.
>>>>
>>>> Why not SAF?  I thought there was a 6 GHz version of the Integra now.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, Oct 31, 2016 at 5:10 PM, Charles Regan >>> > wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Hello everyone,
>>>>>
>>>>> What would you guys use for a 60 miles PTP link? 400Mbps. Oh and it's
>>>>> over seawater... 20k$ budget.
>>>>>
>>>>> SAF, Trango both said sorry, can't do.
>>>>> Mimosa B5C with space diversity and 3k$ maybe.
>>>>>
>>>>> We do have a working AF5x with a 34dbi dish doing 150Mbps aggregate.
>>>>> The link gets bad sometimes because of ducting/reflection.
>>>>>
>>>>> How could I use two parabolics dish on different polarity with the
>>>>> AF5x for space diversity? Splitter?
>>>>>
>>>>> Should a B5C perform better or worse ?
>>>>>
>>>>> Charles
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>

Re: [AFMUG] PTP 60 miles 400Mbps

[Charles Regan]

11ghz? How stable is that link? Signals? Screenshot?


On Tue, Nov 1, 2016 at 10:32 AM, Rory Conaway 
wrote:

> I have a 50 mile B11 link with 4’ dishes running 400Mbps.  When the
> alignment is done, it should hit 480Mbps.
>
>
>
> Rory
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Jeremy
> *Sent:* Monday, October 31, 2016 7:11 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] PTP 60 miles 400Mbps
>
>
>
> If you are already using AF5X, would this be a possibility?[image: Inline
> image 1]
>
>
>
> On Mon, Oct 31, 2016 at 8:00 PM, Jaime Solorza 
> wrote:
>
> We did a link from across the bay in Corpus Cristi with Tsunami 5Ghz
> radios using 4 ft. Dishes using horizontal polarity.   5 story building on
> one side and 120 ft.  Tower at other side.   These were 10mbps radios and
> we got almost 100% across.  All the other links on same roof and other
> water as well used vertical polarity and had ducting issues.   With MIMO
> and all kinds of polarity options I am sure you can find a solution.
> Antenna diversity must be engineered for path and conditions.   Where are
> you trying to shoot from?
>
>
>
> On Oct 31, 2016 6:39 PM, "Cassidy B. Larson"  wrote:
>
> Did SAF try 6GHz? Or did they only try 5GHz?
>
> Seems a 2+0 at 6 would probably work at that distance.. although seawater
> is a factor I dunno about
>
>
> On Oct 31, 2016, at 18:32, Charles Regan  wrote:
>
> Well here's SAF response:
> *My link planning team confirmed SAF does not have a viable 5GHz radio
> that can achieve your objective for this path.*
>
> Trango:
> *rough calculation suggests that even using space diversity will yield a 3
> - 4 'nines' link (predicted reliability) at around 200Mbps FDX.  The use of
> space diversity will also add considerably to the cost (a complete link
> might be upwards of $50K).*
>
> I'll ask SIAE...
>
>
>
> On Oct 31, 2016 9:19 PM, "Eric Kuhnke"  wrote:
>
> 20k?
>
> SIAE AlfoPlus2 6 GHz 1024QAM dual polarity link. Or two pairs of alfoplus1
> 1024qam (single polarity) radios running in parallel, opposite polarities,
> equal OSPF cost between routers.
>
> Or Trango's 1024QAM 6GHz radios.
>
> Why not SAF?  I thought there was a 6 GHz version of the Integra now.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Mon, Oct 31, 2016 at 5:10 PM, Charles Regan 
> wrote:
>
> Hello everyone,
>
> What would you guys use for a 60 miles PTP link? 400Mbps. Oh and it's over
> seawater... 20k$ budget.
>
> SAF, Trango both said sorry, can't do.
> Mimosa B5C with space diversity and 3k$ maybe.
>
> We do have a working AF5x with a 34dbi dish doing 150Mbps aggregate.
> The link gets bad sometimes because of ducting/reflection.
>
> How could I use two parabolics dish on different polarity with the AF5x
> for space diversity? Splitter?
>
> Should a B5C perform better or worse ?
>
> Charles
>
>
>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Tesla powerwall 2

[Charles Regan]

This?
https://flexscada.com/flexs-q4/

Re: [AFMUG] Tesla powerwall 2

[Charles Regan]

No special charger.  You can adjust the charging voltage and LVC on the
Meanwell.

On Nov 1, 2016 4:14 PM, "SmarterBroadband" 
wrote:

> Being lithium do the Winston batteries need a special charger?
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Charles Regan
> *Sent:* Monday, October 31, 2016 6:35 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Tesla powerwall 2
>
>
>
> We are using Meanwell TN3000, pure sine wave 3000W inverter charger. It
> has a solar plug too. Cost is 950$
>
> Small sites has the 1500W version the the inverter and Winston 24v 60Ah
> lithium battery.
>
>
>
> On Oct 31, 2016 10:17 PM, "Adam Moffett"  wrote:
>
> 60% DOD is pretty conservative.  Do you lose power a lot?  Losing power at
> this site is somewhat of a hypothetical event.  A Mack truck on the highway
> wiped out 5 poles and we ran on propane for a whole day.  The previous
> outage was years before, and I don't expect another one for a few more
> years.
>
> ...and ideally I'm only on battery for a minute or two while the genny
> gets started.
>
> This was my thinking as well.. With my AGM setups I’m not comfortable
> pushing beyond 60% DOD.. I’m also paying a lot for 10-year rated large Ah
> AGM batteries these days.
>
>
>
>
> *Peter Kranz*www.UnwiredLtd.com <http://www.unwiredltd.com/>
> Desk: 510-868-1614 x100
> Mobile: 510-207-
> pkr...@unwiredltd.com
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com ] *On
> Behalf Of *Mathew Howard
> *Sent:* Monday, October 31, 2016 2:33 PM
> *To:* af  
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Tesla powerwall 2
>
>
>
> Figuring those prices, you're not going to end up too far off from the
> price of the Tesla for the same run time. Tripling the batteries will put
> you up to somewhere around $4500, for basically the same kWh, but if you
> factor in being able to 100% discharge the Tesla setup, you're going to
> need to add a bunch more battery.
>
> I wonder how the life expectancy compares...
>
>
>
> On Mon, Oct 31, 2016 at 2:51 PM, Adam Moffett  wrote:
>
> That's the same link I sent earlier, bro.
>
> $3049 is list priceyou'll pay closer to $2500 - $2600.
>
>
>
> On 10/31/2016 3:47 PM, Chuck McCown wrote:
>
> This looks like it:
>
> http://www.aimscorp.net/12000-Watt-Inverter-Charger-48-volt-
> 120-240vac.html
>
> �
>
> $3409/12000=28.4 cents per watt.�
>
> Not too bad considering there is a battery charger in there.
>
> �
>
> *From:* Adam Moffett
>
> *Sent:* Monday, October 31, 2016 1:01 PM
>
> *To:* af@afmug.com
>
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Tesla powerwall 2
>
> �
>
> http://www.aimscorp.net/12000-Watt-Inverter-Charger-48-volt-
> 120-240vac.html
>
> This has a street price of $2500.� The four SLA batteries were (I think)
> $160 each.� The 3/0 battery cable was not free, but I don't remember what
> it cost.� This is only 4800 Wh, but it's trivial to add more/bigger
> batteries.�
>
> This doesn't have any built in network monitoring though.does the
> Powerwall?
>
> �
>
>
>
> On 10/31/2016 2:14 PM, Peter Kranz wrote:
>
> The new tesla powerwall 2 appears to be an interesting UPS option now that
> it has a build in inverter/charger. 14kWh for $5500, so would run most of
> my sites for about 24 hours. When I backed out the costs for 14kWh of our
> standard AGM cells and inverter, I think this price is quite reasonable.
>
> �
>
> https://www.tesla.com/powerwall
>
> �
>
>
> *Peter Kranz*www.UnwiredLtd.com <http://www.unwiredltd.com/>
> Desk: 510-868-1614 x100
> Mobile: 510-207-
> pkr...@unwiredltd.com
>
> �
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Tesla powerwall 2

[Charles Regan]

Probably the good old Panasonic 18650 3800mah

My ebike fly at 70km/h with those fully charged to 84v.

On Nov 1, 2016 10:54 PM, "Kurt Fankhauser"  wrote:

> What battery technology is in this powerwall? Lithion Ion? How are they
> getting that many kilowatts in a 200 pound package?
>
> On Tue, Nov 1, 2016 at 6:27 PM, Charles Regan 
> wrote:
>
>> No special charger.  You can adjust the charging voltage and LVC on the
>> Meanwell.
>>
>> On Nov 1, 2016 4:14 PM, "SmarterBroadband" 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Being lithium do the Winston batteries need a special charger?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Charles Regan
>>> *Sent:* Monday, October 31, 2016 6:35 PM
>>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Tesla powerwall 2
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> We are using Meanwell TN3000, pure sine wave 3000W inverter charger. It
>>> has a solar plug too. Cost is 950$
>>>
>>> Small sites has the 1500W version the the inverter and Winston 24v 60Ah
>>> lithium battery.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Oct 31, 2016 10:17 PM, "Adam Moffett"  wrote:
>>>
>>> 60% DOD is pretty conservative.  Do you lose power a lot?  Losing power
>>> at this site is somewhat of a hypothetical event.  A Mack truck on the
>>> highway wiped out 5 poles and we ran on propane for a whole day.  The
>>> previous outage was years before, and I don't expect another one for a few
>>> more years.
>>>
>>> ...and ideally I'm only on battery for a minute or two while the genny
>>> gets started.
>>>
>>> This was my thinking as well.. With my AGM setups I’m not comfortable
>>> pushing beyond 60% DOD.. I’m also paying a lot for 10-year rated large Ah
>>> AGM batteries these days.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *Peter Kranz*www.UnwiredLtd.com <http://www.unwiredltd.com/>
>>> Desk: 510-868-1614 x100
>>> Mobile: 510-207-
>>> pkr...@unwiredltd.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com ] *On
>>> Behalf Of *Mathew Howard
>>> *Sent:* Monday, October 31, 2016 2:33 PM
>>> *To:* af  
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Tesla powerwall 2
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Figuring those prices, you're not going to end up too far off from the
>>> price of the Tesla for the same run time. Tripling the batteries will put
>>> you up to somewhere around $4500, for basically the same kWh, but if you
>>> factor in being able to 100% discharge the Tesla setup, you're going to
>>> need to add a bunch more battery.
>>>
>>> I wonder how the life expectancy compares...
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, Oct 31, 2016 at 2:51 PM, Adam Moffett 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> That's the same link I sent earlier, bro.
>>>
>>> $3049 is list priceyou'll pay closer to $2500 - $2600.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 10/31/2016 3:47 PM, Chuck McCown wrote:
>>>
>>> This looks like it:
>>>
>>> http://www.aimscorp.net/12000-Watt-Inverter-Charger-48-volt-
>>> 120-240vac.html
>>>
>>> �
>>>
>>> $3409/12000=28.4 cents per watt.�
>>>
>>> Not too bad considering there is a battery charger in there.
>>>
>>> �
>>>
>>> *From:* Adam Moffett
>>>
>>> *Sent:* Monday, October 31, 2016 1:01 PM
>>>
>>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>>>
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Tesla powerwall 2
>>>
>>> �
>>>
>>> http://www.aimscorp.net/12000-Watt-Inverter-Charger-48-volt-
>>> 120-240vac.html
>>>
>>> This has a street price of $2500.� The four SLA batteries were (I
>>> think) $160 each.� The 3/0 battery cable was not free, but I don't
>>> remember what it cost.� This is only 4800 Wh, but it's trivial to add
>>> more/bigger batteries.�
>>>
>>> This doesn't have any built in network monitoring though.does the
>>> Powerwall?
>>>
>>> �
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 10/31/2016 2:14 PM, Peter Kranz wrote:
>>>
>>> The new tesla powerwall 2 appears to be an interesting UPS option now
>>> that it has a build in inverter/charger. 14kWh for $5500, so would run most
>>> of my sites for about 24 hours. When I backed out the costs for 14kWh of
>>> our standard AGM cells and inverter, I think this price is quite reasonable.
>>>
>>> �
>>>
>>> https://www.tesla.com/powerwall
>>>
>>> �
>>>
>>>
>>> *Peter Kranz*www.UnwiredLtd.com <http://www.unwiredltd.com/>
>>> Desk: 510-868-1614 x100
>>> Mobile: 510-207-
>>> pkr...@unwiredltd.com
>>>
>>> �
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Recommended DNS for content filtering K-12

[Charles Regan]

We use NXFilter. Its free.
We have two servers serving 6 schools. Around 1200 devices.

On Feb 22, 2017 13:31, "That One Guy /sarcasm" 
wrote:

> we replaced a couple of those when we took over a network once. The
> company, bullguard or whatever was pretty good to deal with. I didnt like
> the management software that was required for the units, java based, but it
> was old. The feature set was pretty slick though. FYI fortigate gives a
> decent trade in discount on watchguards
>
> On Wed, Feb 22, 2017 at 10:42 AM, Jordan Gregory <
> jgreg...@hive-wireless.com> wrote:
>
>> I have had great luck with watchguard. Their basic security suite for all
>> of their firewalls includes comprehensive web proxying and all for a
>> fraction of the cost of fortigate.
>>
>> Hit me up off list if you want more info.
>>
>> Full disclosure: we resell watchguard, so I'm biased :)
>>
>> On Feb 22, 2017 10:31 AM, "That One Guy /sarcasm" <
>> thatoneguyst...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Expensive
>>> but Fortigate is excellent for this, the school can also set up a
>>> youtube content account to tie into the policies to control what youtube
>>> content is available and whats not
>>> Expensive though as it scales
>>> no ip proxy bypass, no dns control bypass, locally installed
>>> certificates and you can mtm inspect ssl. Its pretty hard to get around a
>>> well configured fortigate
>>>
>>> On Wed, Feb 22, 2017 at 10:14 AM, Chuck McCown  wrote:
>>>
 Any kid with any smarts at all can do direct ip to proxy with no
 effort.  If they want to keep the kids out of the porn, then the system
 must be airgapped.  No real world internet connection.  Perhaps go do
 google searches and cache all the stuff they would be likely to need for
 class room assignments, then break the connection and tell them it is on
 the computer... go find it.

 *From:* Ken Hohhof
 *Sent:* Wednesday, February 22, 2017 9:11 AM
 *To:* af@afmug.com
 *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Recommended DNS for content filtering K-12


 No such thing.



 So ask (1) who is requiring this or (2) who is paying for this?  Then
 ask, what is their approved solution that they are willing to approve
 and/or pay for?



 If this is genuinely not being pushed by some government mandate, I
 would question DNS as being too simplistic.  Just recently the TV news here
 had a story about parents show were shocked, shocked to discover their kids
 school-issued computers allowed them to use Google Hangouts, which the kids
 were using for inappropriate messages.  The idea that you can block all
 inappropriate content by a simple method like what DNS servers you use,
 seems naïve to me.  So, should the DNS servers let you go to Wikipedia, or
 not?  CNN is dishonest media, should that be blocked?  What about RT?  Or,
 for an example of what happens when you try to censor the Internet by
 blocking IP addresses, look at the news stories about Cogent blocking
 Cloudflare IP addresses associated with Pirate Bay but also causing
 collateral damage to other sites sharing those IPs.





 *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Gino Villarini
 *Sent:* Wednesday, February 22, 2017 9:44 AM
 *To:* af@afmug.com
 *Subject:* [AFMUG] Recommended DNS for content filtering K-12



 What is the recommended DNS for airtight content filtering for Schools?
 Specially Porn block



 *Gino Villarini*

 President

 Metro Office Park #18 Suite 304 Guaynabo, Puerto Rico 00968


>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team
>>> as part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.
>>>
>>
>
>
> --
> If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team
> as part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.
>

Re: [AFMUG] 48V Meanwell UPS?

[Charles Regan]

Meanwell TN-1500 48V UPS and solar charge
https://www.meanwell-web.com/en/products/dc-ac-inverter/gt-1001-w/tn-1500

On Apr 21, 2017 17:28, "George Skorup"  wrote:

> The only good reason for the remote control link is so that the BCM can
> control the PS output voltage for battery temp compensation. The BCM also
> instructs the PS to shut down when you hit the off switch. That's all there
> is to it.
>
> I could never get the BCM48 to limit charging current. It's possible that
> the one I have has some kind of issue, but Ken said he saw the same thing
> on his.
>
> The BCMU360 and an SDR-240-48 combo is cheaper and works fine for me. But
> like I've said before, just be aware that the BCMU is only good for ~240
> watts continuous. I have several running 200-220 watts of real load.
>
> Yes, it would be nice if Mean Well made the UPS40 in 48v. I know the
> charging current limiter on that thing actually works.
>
> On 4/21/2017 10:21 AM, Josh Baird wrote:
>
>> Looking for a UPS to complement a Meanwell SDR-240-48.  I see the
>> DR-UPS40, but it's only 24V.
>>
>> Is there a 48V model?  I have several Traco BCM48's, but I don't know if
>> they will work with the Meanwell PSU since it lacks the 'control link' or
>> whatever Traco uses between the TSP and BCM.
>>
>> Josh
>>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Cost effective battery charging and monitoring device

[Charles Regan]

Why just change the shunt for one like this? That's a 600A shunt. 45$

Deltec 600A Ammeter Shunt
http://www.electricmotorsport.com/deltec-600a-ammeter-shunt.html


Le mer. 30 août 2017 à 14:29, George Skorup  a
écrit :

> Yeah, about that. I wouldn't use those on 12VDC systems. Too much current.
> I've burned up a couple of the 10A shunts on Traco BCMUs that were running
> around 200W load on battery. 200/13 = 15 amps. Ungood. One site at about
> 225W, first time it went to battery, the shunt went kaput after 10-15
> minutes and the site went down.
>
> I'm hoping Forrest comes up with some Hall effect stuff or even plain 20+
> amp shunts that can be used on the SiteMonitor's existing 100mv input. Hall
> effect is nice because you don't have to be "in" the circuit. But I'll take
> what I can get.
>
>
> On 8/30/2017 10:26 AM, Adam Moffett wrote:
>
> Yeah, up to 10 amp.
>
>
> -- Original Message --
> From: "Chuck McCown" 
> To: af@afmug.com
> Sent: 8/30/2017 11:18:36 AM
>
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Cost effective battery charging and monitoring device
>
> I think Forrest has them on his site with the site monitors.
>
> *From:* Sam Lambie
> *Sent:* Wednesday, August 30, 2017 9:15 AM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Cost effective battery charging and monitoring
> device
>
> Parallel. Site Monitor! Now where can I get a shunt?
>
> On Wed, Aug 30, 2017 at 9:09 AM, Chuck McCown  wrote:
>
>> 4 batts in series or parallel?
>> Shunt + sitemonitor would be a better way to go and you don’t have to
>> write code.
>>
>> *From:* Sam Lambie
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, August 30, 2017 9:06 AM
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>> *Subject:* [AFMUG] Cost effective battery charging and monitoring device
>>
>> Hey all,
>> I am getting away from using APC at a couple of our sites and right now I
>> have installed a Tripp-Lite APS750 connected to 4 Deep cycle marine
>> batteries for a total of 404 aH system. I'd like to be able to monitor the
>> discharge rate of the batteries when power is out remotely. What have you
>> guys been doing to that effect?
>>
>> I'm thinking a Pi and a shunt and some quick scripting classes on Python
>> to put it all together...
>>
>> --
>> --
>> *Sam Lambie*
>> Taosnet Wireless Tech.
>> 575-758-7598 <%28575%29%20758-7598> Office
>> www.Taosnet.com 
>>
>
>
>
> --
> --
> *Sam Lambie*
> Taosnet Wireless Tech.
> 575-758-7598 Office
> www.Taosnet.com 
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Storm recovery in Florida

[Charles Regan]

I'll gladly help if anyone needs a hand.
I do have bunch airmiles and standby airplane tickets to used.

Let me know I'll take two weeks off anytime.

Charles

Le mer. 6 sept. 2017 à 08:29, Paul McCall  a écrit :

> I know I speak for myself and Gino, that we both will likely need extra
> personnel to recovery from Irma after the storm passes.  We have 38 towers
> across 4 counties in SouthEast Florida, and have prepared as best we can.
> We have been down this road before and it is not fun.
>
>
>
> It looks like regardless of the direct track of the storm, our customers
> will be significantly impacted.
>
>
>
> If there is anyone who can spare a good employee for a week or two
> afterwards, it would be greatly appreciated  they will be welcomed warmly
> and treated very well.
>
>
>
> Paul
>
>
>
> Paul McCall, President
>
> PDMNet, Inc. / Florida Broadband, Inc.
>
> 658 Old Dixie Highway
>
> Vero Beach, FL 32962
>
> 772-564-6800
>
> pa...@pdmnet.net
>
> www.pdmnet.com
>
> www.floridabroadband.com
>
>
>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Cost effective battery charging and monitoring device

[Charles Regan]

But if you have the correct ohm resistance of the shunt? Your monitoring
device should have a setting for that?
With the ohm reading, it should be pretty accurate.

I'm using one of those shunt (150A 20$) on my electric bike and I get the
same amp draw reading on my fluke meter. Max I draw is 65A or 4kW so that's
higher than most wisp battery backup system. That's my fuel gauge so it
needs to be pretty accurate.

Here's the meter I use on my bike , no network connection but serial data
output and the monitoring of amp, watts, voltage and AH used is there.


www.ebikes.ca/product-info/cycle-analyst.html



Le mar. 5 sept. 2017 à 18:53, Chuck McCown  a écrit :

> The higher the amperage the shunt, the less precision you get from the
> system.
>
> *From:* Charles Regan
> *Sent:* Tuesday, September 05, 2017 3:52 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Cost effective battery charging and monitoring
> device
> Why just change the shunt for one like this? That's a 600A shunt. 45$
>
> Deltec 600A Ammeter Shunt
> http://www.electricmotorsport.com/deltec-600a-ammeter-shunt.html
>
> Le mer. 30 août 2017 à 14:29, George Skorup  a
> écrit :
>
>> Yeah, about that. I wouldn't use those on 12VDC systems. Too much
>> current. I've burned up a couple of the 10A shunts on Traco BCMUs that were
>> running around 200W load on battery. 200/13 = 15 amps. Ungood. One site at
>> about 225W, first time it went to battery, the shunt went kaput after 10-15
>> minutes and the site went down.
>>
>> I'm hoping Forrest comes up with some Hall effect stuff or even plain 20+
>> amp shunts that can be used on the SiteMonitor's existing 100mv input. Hall
>> effect is nice because you don't have to be "in" the circuit. But I'll take
>> what I can get.
>>
>>
>> On 8/30/2017 10:26 AM, Adam Moffett wrote:
>>
>> Yeah, up to 10 amp.
>>
>>
>> -- Original Message --
>> From: "Chuck McCown" 
>> To: af@afmug.com
>> Sent: 8/30/2017 11:18:36 AM
>>
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Cost effective battery charging and monitoring device
>>
>>
>> I think Forrest has them on his site with the site monitors.
>>
>> *From:* Sam Lambie
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, August 30, 2017 9:15 AM
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Cost effective battery charging and monitoring
>> device
>>
>> Parallel. Site Monitor! Now where can I get a shunt?
>>
>> On Wed, Aug 30, 2017 at 9:09 AM, Chuck McCown  wrote:
>>
>>> 4 batts in series or parallel?
>>> Shunt + sitemonitor would be a better way to go and you don’t have to
>>> write code.
>>>
>>> *From:* Sam Lambie
>>> *Sent:* Wednesday, August 30, 2017 9:06 AM
>>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>>> *Subject:* [AFMUG] Cost effective battery charging and monitoring device
>>>
>>> Hey all,
>>> I am getting away from using APC at a couple of our sites and right now
>>> I have installed a Tripp-Lite APS750 connected to 4 Deep cycle marine
>>> batteries for a total of 404 aH system. I'd like to be able to monitor the
>>> discharge rate of the batteries when power is out remotely. What have you
>>> guys been doing to that effect?
>>>
>>> I'm thinking a Pi and a shunt and some quick scripting classes on Python
>>> to put it all together...
>>>
>>> --
>>> --
>>> *Sam Lambie*
>>> Taosnet Wireless Tech.
>>> 575-758-7598 <%28575%29%20758-7598> Office
>>> www.Taosnet.com <http://www.newmex.com>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> --
>> *Sam Lambie*
>> Taosnet Wireless Tech.
>> 575-758-7598 Office
>> www.Taosnet.com <http://www.newmex.com>
>>
>>

Re: [AFMUG] Low Voltage Battery Disconnect

[Charles Regan via Af]

That's what we use with a relay.
http://www.reuk.co.uk/shop-LOW-VOLTAGE-DISCONNECTS-LVD.htm
Pretty cheap and does the work.

On Thu, Nov 20, 2014 at 5:45 PM, CARL PETERSON via Af  wrote:

> Thanks Dan,
>
> That is exactly what I was looking for but…at $200 I may need to think
> about it if its just going to protect $400 worth of batteries from a long
> power outage that seldom happens here…
>
>
> Carl Peterson
> *PORT NETWORKS*
> 401 E Pratt St, Ste 2553
> Baltimore, MD 21202
> (410) 637-3707
>
> On Nov 20, 2014, at 4:07 PM, Plexicomm Admin via Af  wrote:
>
> Carl Duracomm/Meanwell make the part you are looking for:
> http://duracomm.com/siteresources/apps/catalog/shop/prodList.asp?idCategory=9
>
> Dan English
> Plexicomm - Internet Solutions
> d...@plexicomm.net | 1.866.759.4678 x103
> Fax: 1.866.852.4688 | Emergency Support: 1.866.759.9713
>
>
> Note: Privileged/Confidential information may be contained in this message
> and may be subject to legal privilege. Access to this e-mail by anyone
> other than the intended is unauthorized. If you are not the intended
> recipient (or responsible for delivery of the message to such person), you
> may not use, copy, distribute or deliver to anyone this message (or any
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> you should destroy this message, and notify us immediately. If you have
> received this email in error, please notify us immediately by e-mail or
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> does not consent to internet e-mail messages of this kind, please notify us
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> viruses are present in this e-mail. As our company cannot accept
> responsibility for any loss or damage arising from the use of this e-mail
> or attachments we recommend that you subject these to your virus checking
> procedures prior to use. The views, opinions, conclusions and other
> information expressed in this electronic mail are not given or endorsed by
> the company unless otherwise indicated by an authorized representative
> independent of this message.
>
> --
> -Original Message-
> From: "CARL PETERSON via Af" 
> To: af@afmug.com
> Date: 11/20/14 03:41 PM
> Subject: [AFMUG] Low Voltage Battery Disconnect
>
> I have a couple Emerson 211 Rectifier shelves without the LVLD.  In order
> to protect my battery string, I am looking for a low voltage battery
> disconnect that will disconnect the battery string when voltage drops below
> ~42V and reconnect it when the rectifier comes back online so the batteries
> will charge.  Any suggestions for a ~20A system?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Carl Peterson
> *PORT NETWORKS*
> 401 E Pratt St, Ste 2553
> Baltimore, MD 21202
> (410) 637-3707
>
>
>
>
>