Re: [AFMUG] POE vs DC and surge supression

[Josh Baird]

Not to go too far off track here, but what DC surge protectors have you
used?  I priced ones from Calix and they were sort of pricey (>100 each).

Josh

On Tue, Dec 1, 2015 at 4:29 PM, Ken Hohhof <af...@kwisp.com> wrote:

> I can't speak to R56, but the only experience I have with 48V direct DC
> power is with a WiMAX basestation that the manufacturer claimed the field
> failures were reduced to almost zero when they started recommending a DC
> surge protector at the basestation.  My personal view is the one by the BS
> or AP (and it should be right next to it) is more important than one on the
> ground.  In our case, if a surge tried to blow out our rectifiers and
> battery, it would probably just pop a fuse.  Even so, replacing some 48V DC
> equipment on the ground is no big deal compared to replacing an expensive
> basestation up on a tower.
>
>
> -Original Message- From: Craig Baird
> Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2015 3:11 PM
> To: af@afmug.com
> Subject: [AFMUG] POE vs DC and surge supression
>
>
> We've got some Cambium PTP820S radios going up shortly.  We will be
> running fiber to the radios, so we're debating on POE vs. DC up the
> tower for powering them.  We have been told by the tower owner that we
> need to adhere to R56 for lightning protection.
>
> Our initial thought was that we would just run POE since we already
> have the cable, and it would give us an out-of-band management port.
> But, according to the Cambium installation manual (and I think R56
> specifies this too), it says that if we're running POE, we're supposed
> to bond the cable shield to the tower every 50 meters.  I assume that
> means at the top and bottom since our cable runs are all less than 50
> meters. In addition, the manual says that we should use Ethernet surge
> suppressors.  We're thinking "what a pain in the butt".  On the other
> hand, the Cambium manual does not address grounding for DC cable in
> any way other than saying that the radio has DC (and Ethernet) surge
> protection built in.
>
> So the DC option is looking pretty attractive compared to the hoops
> we'll need jump through for ethernet.  I'm wondering if there's
> something we're missing that the Cambium manual doesn't address.  I
> figured just to be safe, we would go ahead and put DC surge
> suppressors at the top and bottom of the DC cable.  Is there anything
> else needed for R56 adherence in this situation?
>
> Craig
>
>
>
>

[AFMUG] POE vs DC and surge supression

[Craig Baird]

We've got some Cambium PTP820S radios going up shortly.  We will be  
running fiber to the radios, so we're debating on POE vs. DC up the  
tower for powering them.  We have been told by the tower owner that we  
need to adhere to R56 for lightning protection.


Our initial thought was that we would just run POE since we already  
have the cable, and it would give us an out-of-band management port.   
But, according to the Cambium installation manual (and I think R56  
specifies this too), it says that if we're running POE, we're supposed  
to bond the cable shield to the tower every 50 meters.  I assume that  
means at the top and bottom since our cable runs are all less than 50  
meters. In addition, the manual says that we should use Ethernet surge  
suppressors.  We're thinking "what a pain in the butt".  On the other  
hand, the Cambium manual does not address grounding for DC cable in  
any way other than saying that the radio has DC (and Ethernet) surge  
protection built in.


So the DC option is looking pretty attractive compared to the hoops  
we'll need jump through for ethernet.  I'm wondering if there's  
something we're missing that the Cambium manual doesn't address.  I  
figured just to be safe, we would go ahead and put DC surge  
suppressors at the top and bottom of the DC cable.  Is there anything  
else needed for R56 adherence in this situation?


Craig

Re: [AFMUG] POE vs DC and surge supression

[Lewis Bergman]

I would second the hybrid fiber. Worked great for us and Best-Tronics is
great. A little longer lead time but good to work with. For about the same
as good CAT5 outdoor they will make you a 4 fiber and 2 conductor cable. We
had a lot less issues using DC surge arrestors than POE.

On Tue, Dec 1, 2015 at 3:58 PM, Craig Baird  wrote:

> No, I don't have the fiber yet.  That's a great suggestion.  Thanks!
>
> Craig
>
>
> Quoting Josh Baird :
>
> Do you already have the fiber?  If not, you should consider a hybrid cable
>> that has a few strands of fiber and 2-conductor 12/14AWG for powering the
>> radios?  Best-Tronics is a good vendor for this cable.
>>
>> On Tue, Dec 1, 2015 at 4:11 PM, Craig Baird  wrote:
>>
>> We've got some Cambium PTP820S radios going up shortly.  We will be
>>> running fiber to the radios, so we're debating on POE vs. DC up the tower
>>> for powering them.  We have been told by the tower owner that we need to
>>> adhere to R56 for lightning protection.
>>>
>>> Our initial thought was that we would just run POE since we already have
>>> the cable, and it would give us an out-of-band management port.  But,
>>> according to the Cambium installation manual (and I think R56 specifies
>>> this too), it says that if we're running POE, we're supposed to bond the
>>> cable shield to the tower every 50 meters.  I assume that means at the
>>> top
>>> and bottom since our cable runs are all less than 50 meters. In addition,
>>> the manual says that we should use Ethernet surge suppressors.  We're
>>> thinking "what a pain in the butt".  On the other hand, the Cambium
>>> manual
>>> does not address grounding for DC cable in any way other than saying that
>>> the radio has DC (and Ethernet) surge protection built in.
>>>
>>> So the DC option is looking pretty attractive compared to the hoops we'll
>>> need jump through for ethernet.  I'm wondering if there's something we're
>>> missing that the Cambium manual doesn't address.  I figured just to be
>>> safe, we would go ahead and put DC surge suppressors at the top and
>>> bottom
>>> of the DC cable.  Is there anything else needed for R56 adherence in this
>>> situation?
>>>
>>> Craig
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>
>
>


-- 
Lewis Bergman
325-439-0533 Cell

Re: [AFMUG] POE vs DC and surge supression

[Josh Baird]

Do you already have the fiber?  If not, you should consider a hybrid cable
that has a few strands of fiber and 2-conductor 12/14AWG for powering the
radios?  Best-Tronics is a good vendor for this cable.

On Tue, Dec 1, 2015 at 4:11 PM, Craig Baird  wrote:

> We've got some Cambium PTP820S radios going up shortly.  We will be
> running fiber to the radios, so we're debating on POE vs. DC up the tower
> for powering them.  We have been told by the tower owner that we need to
> adhere to R56 for lightning protection.
>
> Our initial thought was that we would just run POE since we already have
> the cable, and it would give us an out-of-band management port.  But,
> according to the Cambium installation manual (and I think R56 specifies
> this too), it says that if we're running POE, we're supposed to bond the
> cable shield to the tower every 50 meters.  I assume that means at the top
> and bottom since our cable runs are all less than 50 meters. In addition,
> the manual says that we should use Ethernet surge suppressors.  We're
> thinking "what a pain in the butt".  On the other hand, the Cambium manual
> does not address grounding for DC cable in any way other than saying that
> the radio has DC (and Ethernet) surge protection built in.
>
> So the DC option is looking pretty attractive compared to the hoops we'll
> need jump through for ethernet.  I'm wondering if there's something we're
> missing that the Cambium manual doesn't address.  I figured just to be
> safe, we would go ahead and put DC surge suppressors at the top and bottom
> of the DC cable.  Is there anything else needed for R56 adherence in this
> situation?
>
> Craig
>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] POE vs DC and surge supression

[Ken Hohhof]

I can't speak to R56, but the only experience I have with 48V direct DC 
power is with a WiMAX basestation that the manufacturer claimed the field 
failures were reduced to almost zero when they started recommending a DC 
surge protector at the basestation.  My personal view is the one by the BS 
or AP (and it should be right next to it) is more important than one on the 
ground.  In our case, if a surge tried to blow out our rectifiers and 
battery, it would probably just pop a fuse.  Even so, replacing some 48V DC 
equipment on the ground is no big deal compared to replacing an expensive 
basestation up on a tower.



-Original Message- 
From: Craig Baird

Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2015 3:11 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: [AFMUG] POE vs DC and surge supression

We've got some Cambium PTP820S radios going up shortly.  We will be
running fiber to the radios, so we're debating on POE vs. DC up the
tower for powering them.  We have been told by the tower owner that we
need to adhere to R56 for lightning protection.

Our initial thought was that we would just run POE since we already
have the cable, and it would give us an out-of-band management port.
But, according to the Cambium installation manual (and I think R56
specifies this too), it says that if we're running POE, we're supposed
to bond the cable shield to the tower every 50 meters.  I assume that
means at the top and bottom since our cable runs are all less than 50
meters. In addition, the manual says that we should use Ethernet surge
suppressors.  We're thinking "what a pain in the butt".  On the other
hand, the Cambium manual does not address grounding for DC cable in
any way other than saying that the radio has DC (and Ethernet) surge
protection built in.

So the DC option is looking pretty attractive compared to the hoops
we'll need jump through for ethernet.  I'm wondering if there's
something we're missing that the Cambium manual doesn't address.  I
figured just to be safe, we would go ahead and put DC surge
suppressors at the top and bottom of the DC cable.  Is there anything
else needed for R56 adherence in this situation?

Craig

Re: [AFMUG] POE vs DC and surge supression

[Chuck McCown]

Not yet...
What form factor would be preferred?
I could fit it in my regular surge suppressor case if that is not too small.


-Original Message- 
From: Craig Baird

Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2015 3:07 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] POE vs DC and surge supression

You don't have an outdoor version, do you?

Craig


Quoting Chuck McCown <ch...@wbmfg.com>:


I am kinda partial to this one:
http://www.mccowntech.com/dc-power-line-apc-rack-surge-suppressor-protector/

From: Josh Baird
Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2015 2:33 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] POE vs DC and surge supression

Not to go too far off track here, but what DC surge protectors have  you 
used?  I priced ones from Calix and they were sort of pricey  (>100 each).


Josh

On Tue, Dec 1, 2015 at 4:29 PM, Ken Hohhof <af...@kwisp.com> wrote:

  I can't speak to R56, but the only experience I have with 48V  direct DC 
power is with a WiMAX basestation that the manufacturer  claimed the field 
failures were reduced to almost zero when they  started recommending a DC 
surge protector at the basestation.  My  personal view is the one by the 
BS or AP (and it should be right  next to it) is more important than one 
on the ground.  In our case,  if a surge tried to blow out our rectifiers 
and battery, it would  probably just pop a fuse.  Even so, replacing some 
48V DC equipment  on the ground is no big deal compared to replacing an 
expensive  basestation up on a tower.



  -Original Message- From: Craig Baird
  Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2015 3:11 PM
  To: af@afmug.com
  Subject: [AFMUG] POE vs DC and surge supression


  We've got some Cambium PTP820S radios going up shortly.  We will be
  running fiber to the radios, so we're debating on POE vs. DC up the
  tower for powering them.  We have been told by the tower owner that we
  need to adhere to R56 for lightning protection.

  Our initial thought was that we would just run POE since we already
  have the cable, and it would give us an out-of-band management port.
  But, according to the Cambium installation manual (and I think R56
  specifies this too), it says that if we're running POE, we're supposed
  to bond the cable shield to the tower every 50 meters.  I assume that
  means at the top and bottom since our cable runs are all less than 50
  meters. In addition, the manual says that we should use Ethernet surge
  suppressors.  We're thinking "what a pain in the butt".  On the other
  hand, the Cambium manual does not address grounding for DC cable in
  any way other than saying that the radio has DC (and Ethernet) surge
  protection built in.

  So the DC option is looking pretty attractive compared to the hoops
  we'll need jump through for ethernet.  I'm wondering if there's
  something we're missing that the Cambium manual doesn't address.  I
  figured just to be safe, we would go ahead and put DC surge
  suppressors at the top and bottom of the DC cable.  Is there anything
  else needed for R56 adherence in this situation?

  Craig

Re: [AFMUG] POE vs DC and surge supression

[Chuck McCown]

I am kinda partial to this one:
http://www.mccowntech.com/dc-power-line-apc-rack-surge-suppressor-protector/

From: Josh Baird 
Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2015 2:33 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] POE vs DC and surge supression

Not to go too far off track here, but what DC surge protectors have you used?  
I priced ones from Calix and they were sort of pricey (>100 each). 

Josh

On Tue, Dec 1, 2015 at 4:29 PM, Ken Hohhof <af...@kwisp.com> wrote:

  I can't speak to R56, but the only experience I have with 48V direct DC power 
is with a WiMAX basestation that the manufacturer claimed the field failures 
were reduced to almost zero when they started recommending a DC surge protector 
at the basestation.  My personal view is the one by the BS or AP (and it should 
be right next to it) is more important than one on the ground.  In our case, if 
a surge tried to blow out our rectifiers and battery, it would probably just 
pop a fuse.  Even so, replacing some 48V DC equipment on the ground is no big 
deal compared to replacing an expensive basestation up on a tower.


  -Original Message- From: Craig Baird
  Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2015 3:11 PM
  To: af@afmug.com
  Subject: [AFMUG] POE vs DC and surge supression 


  We've got some Cambium PTP820S radios going up shortly.  We will be
  running fiber to the radios, so we're debating on POE vs. DC up the
  tower for powering them.  We have been told by the tower owner that we
  need to adhere to R56 for lightning protection.

  Our initial thought was that we would just run POE since we already
  have the cable, and it would give us an out-of-band management port.
  But, according to the Cambium installation manual (and I think R56
  specifies this too), it says that if we're running POE, we're supposed
  to bond the cable shield to the tower every 50 meters.  I assume that
  means at the top and bottom since our cable runs are all less than 50
  meters. In addition, the manual says that we should use Ethernet surge
  suppressors.  We're thinking "what a pain in the butt".  On the other
  hand, the Cambium manual does not address grounding for DC cable in
  any way other than saying that the radio has DC (and Ethernet) surge
  protection built in.

  So the DC option is looking pretty attractive compared to the hoops
  we'll need jump through for ethernet.  I'm wondering if there's
  something we're missing that the Cambium manual doesn't address.  I
  figured just to be safe, we would go ahead and put DC surge
  suppressors at the top and bottom of the DC cable.  Is there anything
  else needed for R56 adherence in this situation?

  Craig

Re: [AFMUG] POE vs DC and surge supression

[Craig Baird]

Something I could hang on a tower next to a radio would be ideal.   
Seems like your case has tabs on top and bottom for band clamps,  
doesn't it?


Craig


Quoting Chuck McCown <ch...@wbmfg.com>:


Not yet...
What form factor would be preferred?
I could fit it in my regular surge suppressor case if that is not too small.


-Original Message- From: Craig Baird
Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2015 3:07 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] POE vs DC and surge supression

You don't have an outdoor version, do you?

Craig


Quoting Chuck McCown <ch...@wbmfg.com>:


I am kinda partial to this one:
http://www.mccowntech.com/dc-power-line-apc-rack-surge-suppressor-protector/

From: Josh Baird
Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2015 2:33 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] POE vs DC and surge supression

Not to go too far off track here, but what DC surge protectors have  
 you used?  I priced ones from Calix and they were sort of pricey   
(>100 each).


Josh

On Tue, Dec 1, 2015 at 4:29 PM, Ken Hohhof <af...@kwisp.com> wrote:

 I can't speak to R56, but the only experience I have with 48V   
direct DC power is with a WiMAX basestation that the manufacturer   
claimed the field failures were reduced to almost zero when they   
started recommending a DC surge protector at the basestation.  My   
personal view is the one by the BS or AP (and it should be right   
next to it) is more important than one on the ground.  In our case,  
 if a surge tried to blow out our rectifiers and battery, it would   
probably just pop a fuse.  Even so, replacing some 48V DC equipment  
 on the ground is no big deal compared to replacing an expensive   
basestation up on a tower.



 -Original Message- From: Craig Baird
 Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2015 3:11 PM
 To: af@afmug.com
 Subject: [AFMUG] POE vs DC and surge supression


 We've got some Cambium PTP820S radios going up shortly.  We will be
 running fiber to the radios, so we're debating on POE vs. DC up the
 tower for powering them.  We have been told by the tower owner that we
 need to adhere to R56 for lightning protection.

 Our initial thought was that we would just run POE since we already
 have the cable, and it would give us an out-of-band management port.
 But, according to the Cambium installation manual (and I think R56
 specifies this too), it says that if we're running POE, we're supposed
 to bond the cable shield to the tower every 50 meters.  I assume that
 means at the top and bottom since our cable runs are all less than 50
 meters. In addition, the manual says that we should use Ethernet surge
 suppressors.  We're thinking "what a pain in the butt".  On the other
 hand, the Cambium manual does not address grounding for DC cable in
 any way other than saying that the radio has DC (and Ethernet) surge
 protection built in.

 So the DC option is looking pretty attractive compared to the hoops
 we'll need jump through for ethernet.  I'm wondering if there's
 something we're missing that the Cambium manual doesn't address.  I
 figured just to be safe, we would go ahead and put DC surge
 suppressors at the top and bottom of the DC cable.  Is there anything
 else needed for R56 adherence in this situation?

 Craig

Re: [AFMUG] POE vs DC and surge supression

[Ken Hohhof]

Connectronics 82-8694, contact DoubleRadius or Winncom.  I got that as part of 
a Purewave order.  It’s pretty beefy and I think it was around $100.  It does 
have its own NEMA box similar to the Cambium PTP series LPU, with a light you 
can see from the outside, and screw terminal blocks inside.

I think chuck McCown has one for the APC chassis now.


From: Josh Baird 
Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2015 3:33 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] POE vs DC and surge supression

Not to go too far off track here, but what DC surge protectors have you used?  
I priced ones from Calix and they were sort of pricey (>100 each). 

Josh

On Tue, Dec 1, 2015 at 4:29 PM, Ken Hohhof <af...@kwisp.com> wrote:

  I can't speak to R56, but the only experience I have with 48V direct DC power 
is with a WiMAX basestation that the manufacturer claimed the field failures 
were reduced to almost zero when they started recommending a DC surge protector 
at the basestation.  My personal view is the one by the BS or AP (and it should 
be right next to it) is more important than one on the ground.  In our case, if 
a surge tried to blow out our rectifiers and battery, it would probably just 
pop a fuse.  Even so, replacing some 48V DC equipment on the ground is no big 
deal compared to replacing an expensive basestation up on a tower.


  -Original Message- From: Craig Baird
  Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2015 3:11 PM
  To: af@afmug.com
  Subject: [AFMUG] POE vs DC and surge supression 


  We've got some Cambium PTP820S radios going up shortly.  We will be
  running fiber to the radios, so we're debating on POE vs. DC up the
  tower for powering them.  We have been told by the tower owner that we
  need to adhere to R56 for lightning protection.

  Our initial thought was that we would just run POE since we already
  have the cable, and it would give us an out-of-band management port.
  But, according to the Cambium installation manual (and I think R56
  specifies this too), it says that if we're running POE, we're supposed
  to bond the cable shield to the tower every 50 meters.  I assume that
  means at the top and bottom since our cable runs are all less than 50
  meters. In addition, the manual says that we should use Ethernet surge
  suppressors.  We're thinking "what a pain in the butt".  On the other
  hand, the Cambium manual does not address grounding for DC cable in
  any way other than saying that the radio has DC (and Ethernet) surge
  protection built in.

  So the DC option is looking pretty attractive compared to the hoops
  we'll need jump through for ethernet.  I'm wondering if there's
  something we're missing that the Cambium manual doesn't address.  I
  figured just to be safe, we would go ahead and put DC surge
  suppressors at the top and bottom of the DC cable.  Is there anything
  else needed for R56 adherence in this situation?

  Craig

Re: [AFMUG] POE vs DC and surge supression

[Craig Baird]

You don't have an outdoor version, do you?

Craig


Quoting Chuck McCown <ch...@wbmfg.com>:


I am kinda partial to this one:
http://www.mccowntech.com/dc-power-line-apc-rack-surge-suppressor-protector/

From: Josh Baird
Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2015 2:33 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] POE vs DC and surge supression

Not to go too far off track here, but what DC surge protectors have  
you used?  I priced ones from Calix and they were sort of pricey  
(>100 each).


Josh

On Tue, Dec 1, 2015 at 4:29 PM, Ken Hohhof <af...@kwisp.com> wrote:

  I can't speak to R56, but the only experience I have with 48V  
direct DC power is with a WiMAX basestation that the manufacturer  
claimed the field failures were reduced to almost zero when they  
started recommending a DC surge protector at the basestation.  My  
personal view is the one by the BS or AP (and it should be right  
next to it) is more important than one on the ground.  In our case,  
if a surge tried to blow out our rectifiers and battery, it would  
probably just pop a fuse.  Even so, replacing some 48V DC equipment  
on the ground is no big deal compared to replacing an expensive  
basestation up on a tower.



  -Original Message- From: Craig Baird
  Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2015 3:11 PM
  To: af@afmug.com
  Subject: [AFMUG] POE vs DC and surge supression


  We've got some Cambium PTP820S radios going up shortly.  We will be
  running fiber to the radios, so we're debating on POE vs. DC up the
  tower for powering them.  We have been told by the tower owner that we
  need to adhere to R56 for lightning protection.

  Our initial thought was that we would just run POE since we already
  have the cable, and it would give us an out-of-band management port.
  But, according to the Cambium installation manual (and I think R56
  specifies this too), it says that if we're running POE, we're supposed
  to bond the cable shield to the tower every 50 meters.  I assume that
  means at the top and bottom since our cable runs are all less than 50
  meters. In addition, the manual says that we should use Ethernet surge
  suppressors.  We're thinking "what a pain in the butt".  On the other
  hand, the Cambium manual does not address grounding for DC cable in
  any way other than saying that the radio has DC (and Ethernet) surge
  protection built in.

  So the DC option is looking pretty attractive compared to the hoops
  we'll need jump through for ethernet.  I'm wondering if there's
  something we're missing that the Cambium manual doesn't address.  I
  figured just to be safe, we would go ahead and put DC surge
  suppressors at the top and bottom of the DC cable.  Is there anything
  else needed for R56 adherence in this situation?

  Craig

Re: [AFMUG] POE vs DC and surge supression

[Josh Luthman]

What ever happened to the outdoor version of the card holder?  Just make a
universal case that accepts all of the card options.


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Tue, Dec 1, 2015 at 5:08 PM, Chuck McCown <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote:

> Not yet...
> What form factor would be preferred?
> I could fit it in my regular surge suppressor case if that is not too
> small.
>
>
> -Original Message- From: Craig Baird
> Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2015 3:07 PM
> To: af@afmug.com
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] POE vs DC and surge supression
>
> You don't have an outdoor version, do you?
>
> Craig
>
>
> Quoting Chuck McCown <ch...@wbmfg.com>:
>
> I am kinda partial to this one:
>>
>> http://www.mccowntech.com/dc-power-line-apc-rack-surge-suppressor-protector/
>>
>> From: Josh Baird
>> Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2015 2:33 PM
>> To: af@afmug.com
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] POE vs DC and surge supression
>>
>> Not to go too far off track here, but what DC surge protectors have  you
>> used?  I priced ones from Calix and they were sort of pricey  (>100 each).
>>
>> Josh
>>
>> On Tue, Dec 1, 2015 at 4:29 PM, Ken Hohhof <af...@kwisp.com> wrote:
>>
>>   I can't speak to R56, but the only experience I have with 48V  direct
>> DC power is with a WiMAX basestation that the manufacturer  claimed the
>> field failures were reduced to almost zero when they  started recommending
>> a DC surge protector at the basestation.  My  personal view is the one by
>> the BS or AP (and it should be right  next to it) is more important than
>> one on the ground.  In our case,  if a surge tried to blow out our
>> rectifiers and battery, it would  probably just pop a fuse.  Even so,
>> replacing some 48V DC equipment  on the ground is no big deal compared to
>> replacing an expensive  basestation up on a tower.
>>
>>
>>   -Original Message- From: Craig Baird
>>   Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2015 3:11 PM
>>   To: af@afmug.com
>>   Subject: [AFMUG] POE vs DC and surge supression
>>
>>
>>   We've got some Cambium PTP820S radios going up shortly.  We will be
>>   running fiber to the radios, so we're debating on POE vs. DC up the
>>   tower for powering them.  We have been told by the tower owner that we
>>   need to adhere to R56 for lightning protection.
>>
>>   Our initial thought was that we would just run POE since we already
>>   have the cable, and it would give us an out-of-band management port.
>>   But, according to the Cambium installation manual (and I think R56
>>   specifies this too), it says that if we're running POE, we're supposed
>>   to bond the cable shield to the tower every 50 meters.  I assume that
>>   means at the top and bottom since our cable runs are all less than 50
>>   meters. In addition, the manual says that we should use Ethernet surge
>>   suppressors.  We're thinking "what a pain in the butt".  On the other
>>   hand, the Cambium manual does not address grounding for DC cable in
>>   any way other than saying that the radio has DC (and Ethernet) surge
>>   protection built in.
>>
>>   So the DC option is looking pretty attractive compared to the hoops
>>   we'll need jump through for ethernet.  I'm wondering if there's
>>   something we're missing that the Cambium manual doesn't address.  I
>>   figured just to be safe, we would go ahead and put DC surge
>>   suppressors at the top and bottom of the DC cable.  Is there anything
>>   else needed for R56 adherence in this situation?
>>
>>   Craig
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] POE vs DC and surge supression

[Josh Baird]

Well, I had no idea you made these.  Thanks!

On Tue, Dec 1, 2015 at 4:43 PM, Chuck McCown <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote:

> I am kinda partial to this one:
>
> http://www.mccowntech.com/dc-power-line-apc-rack-surge-suppressor-protector/
>
> *From:* Josh Baird <joshba...@gmail.com>
> *Sent:* Tuesday, December 01, 2015 2:33 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] POE vs DC and surge supression
>
> Not to go too far off track here, but what DC surge protectors have you
> used?  I priced ones from Calix and they were sort of pricey (>100 each).
>
> Josh
>
> On Tue, Dec 1, 2015 at 4:29 PM, Ken Hohhof <af...@kwisp.com> wrote:
>
>> I can't speak to R56, but the only experience I have with 48V direct DC
>> power is with a WiMAX basestation that the manufacturer claimed the field
>> failures were reduced to almost zero when they started recommending a DC
>> surge protector at the basestation.  My personal view is the one by the BS
>> or AP (and it should be right next to it) is more important than one on the
>> ground.  In our case, if a surge tried to blow out our rectifiers and
>> battery, it would probably just pop a fuse.  Even so, replacing some 48V DC
>> equipment on the ground is no big deal compared to replacing an expensive
>> basestation up on a tower.
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message- From: Craig Baird
>> Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2015 3:11 PM
>> To: af@afmug.com
>> Subject: [AFMUG] POE vs DC and surge supression
>>
>>
>> We've got some Cambium PTP820S radios going up shortly.  We will be
>> running fiber to the radios, so we're debating on POE vs. DC up the
>> tower for powering them.  We have been told by the tower owner that we
>> need to adhere to R56 for lightning protection.
>>
>> Our initial thought was that we would just run POE since we already
>> have the cable, and it would give us an out-of-band management port.
>> But, according to the Cambium installation manual (and I think R56
>> specifies this too), it says that if we're running POE, we're supposed
>> to bond the cable shield to the tower every 50 meters.  I assume that
>> means at the top and bottom since our cable runs are all less than 50
>> meters. In addition, the manual says that we should use Ethernet surge
>> suppressors.  We're thinking "what a pain in the butt".  On the other
>> hand, the Cambium manual does not address grounding for DC cable in
>> any way other than saying that the radio has DC (and Ethernet) surge
>> protection built in.
>>
>> So the DC option is looking pretty attractive compared to the hoops
>> we'll need jump through for ethernet.  I'm wondering if there's
>> something we're missing that the Cambium manual doesn't address.  I
>> figured just to be safe, we would go ahead and put DC surge
>> suppressors at the top and bottom of the DC cable.  Is there anything
>> else needed for R56 adherence in this situation?
>>
>> Craig
>>
>>
>>
>>
>

Re: [AFMUG] POE vs DC and surge supression

[Craig Baird]

No, I don't have the fiber yet.  That's a great suggestion.  Thanks!

Craig


Quoting Josh Baird :


Do you already have the fiber?  If not, you should consider a hybrid cable
that has a few strands of fiber and 2-conductor 12/14AWG for powering the
radios?  Best-Tronics is a good vendor for this cable.

On Tue, Dec 1, 2015 at 4:11 PM, Craig Baird  wrote:


We've got some Cambium PTP820S radios going up shortly.  We will be
running fiber to the radios, so we're debating on POE vs. DC up the tower
for powering them.  We have been told by the tower owner that we need to
adhere to R56 for lightning protection.

Our initial thought was that we would just run POE since we already have
the cable, and it would give us an out-of-band management port.  But,
according to the Cambium installation manual (and I think R56 specifies
this too), it says that if we're running POE, we're supposed to bond the
cable shield to the tower every 50 meters.  I assume that means at the top
and bottom since our cable runs are all less than 50 meters. In addition,
the manual says that we should use Ethernet surge suppressors.  We're
thinking "what a pain in the butt".  On the other hand, the Cambium manual
does not address grounding for DC cable in any way other than saying that
the radio has DC (and Ethernet) surge protection built in.

So the DC option is looking pretty attractive compared to the hoops we'll
need jump through for ethernet.  I'm wondering if there's something we're
missing that the Cambium manual doesn't address.  I figured just to be
safe, we would go ahead and put DC surge suppressors at the top and bottom
of the DC cable.  Is there anything else needed for R56 adherence in this
situation?

Craig

Re: [AFMUG] POE vs DC and surge supression

[Chuck McCown]

I would have to use a different case.  

From: Josh Luthman 
Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2015 3:10 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] POE vs DC and surge supression

What ever happened to the outdoor version of the card holder?  Just make a 
universal case that accepts all of the card options. 


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Tue, Dec 1, 2015 at 5:08 PM, Chuck McCown <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote:

  Not yet...
  What form factor would be preferred?
  I could fit it in my regular surge suppressor case if that is not too small.


  -Original Message- From: Craig Baird
  Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2015 3:07 PM
  To: af@afmug.com
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] POE vs DC and surge supression

  You don't have an outdoor version, do you?

  Craig


  Quoting Chuck McCown <ch...@wbmfg.com>:


I am kinda partial to this one:
http://www.mccowntech.com/dc-power-line-apc-rack-surge-suppressor-protector/

From: Josh Baird
Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2015 2:33 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] POE vs DC and surge supression

Not to go too far off track here, but what DC surge protectors have  you 
used?  I priced ones from Calix and they were sort of pricey  (>100 each).

Josh

On Tue, Dec 1, 2015 at 4:29 PM, Ken Hohhof <af...@kwisp.com> wrote:

  I can't speak to R56, but the only experience I have with 48V  direct DC 
power is with a WiMAX basestation that the manufacturer  claimed the field 
failures were reduced to almost zero when they  started recommending a DC surge 
protector at the basestation.  My  personal view is the one by the BS or AP 
(and it should be right  next to it) is more important than one on the ground.  
In our case,  if a surge tried to blow out our rectifiers and battery, it would 
 probably just pop a fuse.  Even so, replacing some 48V DC equipment  on the 
ground is no big deal compared to replacing an expensive  basestation up on a 
tower.


  -Original Message- From: Craig Baird
  Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2015 3:11 PM
  To: af@afmug.com
      Subject: [AFMUG] POE vs DC and surge supression



  We've got some Cambium PTP820S radios going up shortly.  We will be
  running fiber to the radios, so we're debating on POE vs. DC up the
  tower for powering them.  We have been told by the tower owner that we
  need to adhere to R56 for lightning protection.

  Our initial thought was that we would just run POE since we already
  have the cable, and it would give us an out-of-band management port.
  But, according to the Cambium installation manual (and I think R56
  specifies this too), it says that if we're running POE, we're supposed
  to bond the cable shield to the tower every 50 meters.  I assume that
  means at the top and bottom since our cable runs are all less than 50
  meters. In addition, the manual says that we should use Ethernet surge
  suppressors.  We're thinking "what a pain in the butt".  On the other
  hand, the Cambium manual does not address grounding for DC cable in
  any way other than saying that the radio has DC (and Ethernet) surge
  protection built in.

  So the DC option is looking pretty attractive compared to the hoops
  we'll need jump through for ethernet.  I'm wondering if there's
  something we're missing that the Cambium manual doesn't address.  I
  figured just to be safe, we would go ahead and put DC surge
  suppressors at the top and bottom of the DC cable.  Is there anything
  else needed for R56 adherence in this situation?

  Craig

Re: [AFMUG] POE vs DC and surge supression

[Chuck McCown]

Yes it does.

-Original Message- 
From: Craig Baird

Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2015 3:14 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] POE vs DC and surge supression

Something I could hang on a tower next to a radio would be ideal.
Seems like your case has tabs on top and bottom for band clamps,
doesn't it?

Craig


Quoting Chuck McCown <ch...@wbmfg.com>:


Not yet...
What form factor would be preferred?
I could fit it in my regular surge suppressor case if that is not too 
small.



-Original Message- From: Craig Baird
Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2015 3:07 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] POE vs DC and surge supression

You don't have an outdoor version, do you?

Craig


Quoting Chuck McCown <ch...@wbmfg.com>:


I am kinda partial to this one:
http://www.mccowntech.com/dc-power-line-apc-rack-surge-suppressor-protector/

From: Josh Baird
Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2015 2:33 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] POE vs DC and surge supression

Not to go too far off track here, but what DC surge protectors have  you 
used?  I priced ones from Calix and they were sort of pricey   (>100 
each).


Josh

On Tue, Dec 1, 2015 at 4:29 PM, Ken Hohhof <af...@kwisp.com> wrote:

 I can't speak to R56, but the only experience I have with 48V   direct 
DC power is with a WiMAX basestation that the manufacturer   claimed the 
field failures were reduced to almost zero when they   started 
recommending a DC surge protector at the basestation.  My   personal view 
is the one by the BS or AP (and it should be right   next to it) is more 
important than one on the ground.  In our case,  if a surge tried to blow 
out our rectifiers and battery, it would   probably just pop a fuse. 
Even so, replacing some 48V DC equipment  on the ground is no big deal 
compared to replacing an expensive   basestation up on a tower.



 -Original Message- From: Craig Baird
 Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2015 3:11 PM
 To: af@afmug.com
 Subject: [AFMUG] POE vs DC and surge supression


 We've got some Cambium PTP820S radios going up shortly.  We will be
 running fiber to the radios, so we're debating on POE vs. DC up the
 tower for powering them.  We have been told by the tower owner that we
 need to adhere to R56 for lightning protection.

 Our initial thought was that we would just run POE since we already
 have the cable, and it would give us an out-of-band management port.
 But, according to the Cambium installation manual (and I think R56
 specifies this too), it says that if we're running POE, we're supposed
 to bond the cable shield to the tower every 50 meters.  I assume that
 means at the top and bottom since our cable runs are all less than 50
 meters. In addition, the manual says that we should use Ethernet surge
 suppressors.  We're thinking "what a pain in the butt".  On the other
 hand, the Cambium manual does not address grounding for DC cable in
 any way other than saying that the radio has DC (and Ethernet) surge
 protection built in.

 So the DC option is looking pretty attractive compared to the hoops
 we'll need jump through for ethernet.  I'm wondering if there's
 something we're missing that the Cambium manual doesn't address.  I
 figured just to be safe, we would go ahead and put DC surge
 suppressors at the top and bottom of the DC cable.  Is there anything
 else needed for R56 adherence in this situation?

 Craig