[AFMUG] ROW conflict
Me and another company have both requested access to the city ROW to run FTTx on the same day in the same city, and the response from the city was that they are trying to decide if they want to allow access to one or both of us or if they feel their current formally city funded company is enough. My question to the group is, is it even up to them or is it up to the residents? And if I cannot get into the ROW, what alternatives do I have? Thank you, Brett A Mansfield Silver Lake Internet, LLC
Re: [AFMUG] ROW conflict
Are you a CLEC? That changes things, because if they have allowed someone in the ROW already, I think they have to allow you too. There was some rule passed, maybe in the Telecom Act, that states that cities cannot discriminate, and must allow all providers. IANAL... I am currently in a battle with my city because they want to charge me a franchise tax...that they don't charge to AT&T, Windstream, or Sprint. Regards, Chuck On Fri, Aug 14, 2015 at 2:31 PM, Brett A Mansfield < li...@silverlakeinternet.com> wrote: > Me and another company have both requested access to the city ROW to run > FTTx on the same day in the same city, and the response from the city was > that they are trying to decide if they want to allow access to one or both > of us or if they feel their current formally city funded company is enough. > > My question to the group is, is it even up to them or is it up to the > residents? And if I cannot get into the ROW, what alternatives do I have? > > Thank you, > Brett A Mansfield > Silver Lake Internet, LLC >
Re: [AFMUG] ROW conflict
No, not a CLEC. The other provider is an ILEC though. My company is just a WISP that is wanting to move to fiber. Thank you, Brett A Mansfield Silver Lake Internet, LLC > On Aug 14, 2015, at 12:44 PM, Chuck Hogg wrote: > > Are you a CLEC? That changes things, because if they have allowed someone in > the ROW already, I think they have to allow you too. There was some rule > passed, maybe in the Telecom Act, that states that cities cannot > discriminate, and must allow all providers. IANAL... > > I am currently in a battle with my city because they want to charge me a > franchise tax...that they don't charge to AT&T, Windstream, or Sprint. > > Regards, > Chuck > >> On Fri, Aug 14, 2015 at 2:31 PM, Brett A Mansfield >> wrote: >> Me and another company have both requested access to the city ROW to run >> FTTx on the same day in the same city, and the response from the city was >> that they are trying to decide if they want to allow access to one or both >> of us or if they feel their current formally city funded company is enough. >> >> My question to the group is, is it even up to them or is it up to the >> residents? And if I cannot get into the ROW, what alternatives do I have? >> >> Thank you, >> Brett A Mansfield >> Silver Lake Internet, LLC >
Re: [AFMUG] ROW conflict
I'm surprised they have any right to stop you. It might cost a lot to prove them wrong though :) On 8/14/2015 2:31 PM, Brett A Mansfield wrote: Me and another company have both requested access to the city ROW to run FTTx on the same day in the same city, and the response from the city was that they are trying to decide if they want to allow access to one or both of us or if they feel their current formally city funded company is enough. My question to the group is, is it even up to them or is it up to the residents? And if I cannot get into the ROW, what alternatives do I have? Thank you, Brett A Mansfield Silver Lake Internet, LLC
Re: [AFMUG] ROW conflict
This. Cities can pretty much do whatever the hell they want, then it is up to you to pay for the legal proceedings...or so I've noticed. On Friday, August 14, 2015, Adam Moffett wrote: > I'm surprised they have any right to stop you. > > It might cost a lot to prove them wrong though :) > > > On 8/14/2015 2:31 PM, Brett A Mansfield wrote: > >> Me and another company have both requested access to the city ROW to run >> FTTx on the same day in the same city, and the response from the city was >> that they are trying to decide if they want to allow access to one or both >> of us or if they feel their current formally city funded company is enough. >> >> My question to the group is, is it even up to them or is it up to the >> residents? And if I cannot get into the ROW, what alternatives do I have? >> >> Thank you, >> Brett A Mansfield >> Silver Lake Internet, LLC >> > >
Re: [AFMUG] ROW conflict
Requirements for ROW access vary considerably by state and locality. It's probably not up to the residents, it would be something decided by city county or mayor/manager possibly with input from their engineer, or attorney. With a city funded provider in the ROW, it seems like they would be on very shaky legal ground if they tried to deny access to a company with proper rights/credentials to be there (ILEC,CLEC, Franchised Cable etc). Seems to be an obvious conflict of interest . As for your question regarding alternatives, well, wireless would be one obvious alternative you are certainly familiar with. Negotiating private easements with landowners is another alternative. Depending on the area, there may already be land set aside for utility easement that may not really be under city jurisdiction (easement in a subdivision controlled by a homewoners association, for example). If the concern is regarding physical space in the ground, perhaps going aerial using pole attachments could be an option. In my area you'd still need "ROW Access" for this however. On Fri, Aug 14, 2015 at 2:31 PM, Brett A Mansfield < li...@silverlakeinternet.com> wrote: > Me and another company have both requested access to the city ROW to run > FTTx on the same day in the same city, and the response from the city was > that they are trying to decide if they want to allow access to one or both > of us or if they feel their current formally city funded company is enough. > > My question to the group is, is it even up to them or is it up to the > residents? And if I cannot get into the ROW, what alternatives do I have? > > Thank you, > Brett A Mansfield > Silver Lake Internet, LLC >
Re: [AFMUG] ROW conflict
City right of way is not exclusive. It is a public right of way. http://sterlingcodifiers.com/codebook/index.php?book_id=1002&chapter_id=89183#s999791 pretty much lays out who / what is subject to a fee. You could convince the council that your service is a benefit " to the enhancement of the health, welfare, and general economic well being of the city and its citizens" and therefore your franchise fee should be zero! You could also just apply for ROW permit for each section of your network and never get a franchise. IANAL (please find a good telco one!) ryan On 8/14/15 11:31 AM, Brett A Mansfield wrote: Me and another company have both requested access to the city ROW to run FTTx on the same day in the same city, and the response from the city was that they are trying to decide if they want to allow access to one or both of us or if they feel their current formally city funded company is enough. My question to the group is, is it even up to them or is it up to the residents? And if I cannot get into the ROW, what alternatives do I have? Thank you, Brett A Mansfield Silver Lake Internet, LLC -- D. Ryan Spott | NGC457, llc broadband | telco | colo | communities PO Box 1734 Sultan, WA 98294 425-939-0047
Re: [AFMUG] ROW conflict
Although not a lawyer, I am a mayor. I have found that all you really need to do is get o one person on the council to see things your way. Mayor, councilman, whatever. If one person is really for something out will pass if nobody else cares one way or the other. They will all vote for it. Find that one person. On Fri, Aug 14, 2015, 1:31 PM Brett A Mansfield < li...@silverlakeinternet.com> wrote: > Me and another company have both requested access to the city ROW to run > FTTx on the same day in the same city, and the response from the city was > that they are trying to decide if they want to allow access to one or both > of us or if they feel their current formally city funded company is enough. > > My question to the group is, is it even up to them or is it up to the > residents? And if I cannot get into the ROW, what alternatives do I have? > > Thank you, > Brett A Mansfield > Silver Lake Internet, LLC >
Re: [AFMUG] ROW conflict
Talk to Sterling. From: Brett A Mansfield Sent: Friday, August 14, 2015 12:49 PM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] ROW conflict No, not a CLEC. The other provider is an ILEC though. My company is just a WISP that is wanting to move to fiber. Thank you, Brett A Mansfield Silver Lake Internet, LLC On Aug 14, 2015, at 12:44 PM, Chuck Hogg wrote: Are you a CLEC? That changes things, because if they have allowed someone in the ROW already, I think they have to allow you too. There was some rule passed, maybe in the Telecom Act, that states that cities cannot discriminate, and must allow all providers. IANAL... I am currently in a battle with my city because they want to charge me a franchise tax...that they don't charge to AT&T, Windstream, or Sprint. Regards, Chuck On Fri, Aug 14, 2015 at 2:31 PM, Brett A Mansfield wrote: Me and another company have both requested access to the city ROW to run FTTx on the same day in the same city, and the response from the city was that they are trying to decide if they want to allow access to one or both of us or if they feel their current formally city funded company is enough. My question to the group is, is it even up to them or is it up to the residents? And if I cannot get into the ROW, what alternatives do I have? Thank you, Brett A Mansfield Silver Lake Internet, LLC
Re: [AFMUG] ROW conflict
Ah, I’ve talked to Brett already. A lawyer is the best way to go. Wisp moving to fiber is a tall challenge that I honestly couldn’t achieve. Instead I rolled the sale of the WISP to a fiber company and it cost hundreds of thousands of dollars. Good luck Brett and others! I’m sure it could be boot strapped for less, maybe doing greenfield open trench access to start. But it’s still a lot of outlay for a trickle incoming. I can’t think of how anyone can do what we do for cheaper than we do it, and it’s still a little unnerving ☺ From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of ch...@wbmfg.com Sent: Friday, August 14, 2015 3:38 PM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] ROW conflict Talk to Sterling. From: Brett A Mansfield<mailto:li...@silverlakeinternet.com> Sent: Friday, August 14, 2015 12:49 PM To: af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] ROW conflict No, not a CLEC. The other provider is an ILEC though. My company is just a WISP that is wanting to move to fiber. Thank you, Brett A Mansfield Silver Lake Internet, LLC On Aug 14, 2015, at 12:44 PM, Chuck Hogg mailto:ch...@shelbybb.com>> wrote: Are you a CLEC? That changes things, because if they have allowed someone in the ROW already, I think they have to allow you too. There was some rule passed, maybe in the Telecom Act, that states that cities cannot discriminate, and must allow all providers. IANAL... I am currently in a battle with my city because they want to charge me a franchise tax...that they don't charge to AT&T, Windstream, or Sprint. Regards, Chuck On Fri, Aug 14, 2015 at 2:31 PM, Brett A Mansfield mailto:li...@silverlakeinternet.com>> wrote: Me and another company have both requested access to the city ROW to run FTTx on the same day in the same city, and the response from the city was that they are trying to decide if they want to allow access to one or both of us or if they feel their current formally city funded company is enough. My question to the group is, is it even up to them or is it up to the residents? And if I cannot get into the ROW, what alternatives do I have? Thank you, Brett A Mansfield Silver Lake Internet, LLC
Re: [AFMUG] ROW conflict
I'd like to do the same, sell and then do fiber. Anyone wanna buy a small wisp? Haha. Seriously though, if anyone is interested in buying me out, if seriously consider it. I enjoy this a lot, but I'm running very short on time to keep it up. I'm very happy just keeping it and doing what I can, but I'm at a crossroads -- sell or expand. Thank you, Brett A Mansfield Silver Lake Internet, LLC > On Aug 14, 2015, at 10:46 PM, Sterling Jacobson wrote: > > Ah, I’ve talked to Brett already. > > A lawyer is the best way to go. > > Wisp moving to fiber is a tall challenge that I honestly couldn’t achieve. > > Instead I rolled the sale of the WISP to a fiber company and it cost hundreds > of thousands of dollars. > > Good luck Brett and others! > > I’m sure it could be boot strapped for less, maybe doing greenfield open > trench access to start. > But it’s still a lot of outlay for a trickle incoming. > > I can’t think of how anyone can do what we do for cheaper than we do it, and > it’s still a little unnerving J > > > > From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of ch...@wbmfg.com > Sent: Friday, August 14, 2015 3:38 PM > To: af@afmug.com > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] ROW conflict > > Talk to Sterling. > > From: Brett A Mansfield > Sent: Friday, August 14, 2015 12:49 PM > To: af@afmug.com > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] ROW conflict > > No, not a CLEC. The other provider is an ILEC though. > > My company is just a WISP that is wanting to move to fiber. > > Thank you, > Brett A Mansfield > Silver Lake Internet, LLC > > On Aug 14, 2015, at 12:44 PM, Chuck Hogg wrote: > > Are you a CLEC? That changes things, because if they have allowed someone in > the ROW already, I think they have to allow you too. There was some rule > passed, maybe in the Telecom Act, that states that cities cannot > discriminate, and must allow all providers. IANAL... > > I am currently in a battle with my city because they want to charge me a > franchise tax...that they don't charge to AT&T, Windstream, or Sprint. > > Regards, > Chuck > > On Fri, Aug 14, 2015 at 2:31 PM, Brett A Mansfield > wrote: > Me and another company have both requested access to the city ROW to run FTTx > on the same day in the same city, and the response from the city was that > they are trying to decide if they want to allow access to one or both of us > or if they feel their current formally city funded company is enough. > > My question to the group is, is it even up to them or is it up to the > residents? And if I cannot get into the ROW, what alternatives do I have? > > Thank you, > Brett A Mansfield > Silver Lake Internet, LLC >
Re: [AFMUG] ROW conflict
How do you gain access to open trenches? In our area there are tens of new housing developments that I would love to start laying fiber in open trenches at a much lower price compared to boring, etc.? On Fri, Aug 14, 2015 at 9:52 PM, Brett A Mansfield < li...@silverlakeinternet.com> wrote: > I'd like to do the same, sell and then do fiber. Anyone wanna buy a small > wisp? Haha. > > Seriously though, if anyone is interested in buying me out, if seriously > consider it. I enjoy this a lot, but I'm running very short on time to keep > it up. I'm very happy just keeping it and doing what I can, but I'm at a > crossroads -- sell or expand. > > Thank you, > Brett A Mansfield > Silver Lake Internet, LLC > > On Aug 14, 2015, at 10:46 PM, Sterling Jacobson > wrote: > > Ah, I’ve talked to Brett already. > > > > A lawyer is the best way to go. > > > > Wisp moving to fiber is a tall challenge that I honestly couldn’t achieve. > > > > Instead I rolled the sale of the WISP to a fiber company and it cost > hundreds of thousands of dollars. > > > > Good luck Brett and others! > > > > I’m sure it could be boot strapped for less, maybe doing greenfield open > trench access to start. > > But it’s still a lot of outlay for a trickle incoming. > > > > I can’t think of how anyone can do what we do for cheaper than we do it, > and it’s still a little unnerving J > > > > > > > > *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com ] *On > Behalf Of *ch...@wbmfg.com > *Sent:* Friday, August 14, 2015 3:38 PM > *To:* af@afmug.com > *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] ROW conflict > > > > Talk to Sterling. > > > > *From:* Brett A Mansfield > > *Sent:* Friday, August 14, 2015 12:49 PM > > *To:* af@afmug.com > > *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] ROW conflict > > > > No, not a CLEC. The other provider is an ILEC though. > > > > My company is just a WISP that is wanting to move to fiber. > > Thank you, > > Brett A Mansfield > > Silver Lake Internet, LLC > > > On Aug 14, 2015, at 12:44 PM, Chuck Hogg wrote: > > Are you a CLEC? That changes things, because if they have allowed someone > in the ROW already, I think they have to allow you too. There was some > rule passed, maybe in the Telecom Act, that states that cities cannot > discriminate, and must allow all providers. IANAL... > > > > I am currently in a battle with my city because they want to charge me a > franchise tax...that they don't charge to AT&T, Windstream, or Sprint. > > > > Regards, > Chuck > > > > On Fri, Aug 14, 2015 at 2:31 PM, Brett A Mansfield < > li...@silverlakeinternet.com> wrote: > > Me and another company have both requested access to the city ROW to run > FTTx on the same day in the same city, and the response from the city was > that they are trying to decide if they want to allow access to one or both > of us or if they feel their current formally city funded company is enough. > > My question to the group is, is it even up to them or is it up to the > residents? And if I cannot get into the ROW, what alternatives do I have? > > Thank you, > Brett A Mansfield > Silver Lake Internet, LLC > > > >
Re: [AFMUG] ROW conflict
You have to get in the process where the developer comes to you to get you to
sign the vellum plat map. That is normally prior to official subdivision
approval by the city or county.
From: TJ Trout
Sent: Friday, August 14, 2015 11:03 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] ROW conflict
How do you gain access to open trenches? In our area there are tens of new
housing developments that I would love to start laying fiber in open trenches
at a much lower price compared to boring, etc.?
On Fri, Aug 14, 2015 at 9:52 PM, Brett A Mansfield
wrote:
I'd like to do the same, sell and then do fiber. Anyone wanna buy a small
wisp? Haha.
Seriously though, if anyone is interested in buying me out, if seriously
consider it. I enjoy this a lot, but I'm running very short on time to keep it
up. I'm very happy just keeping it and doing what I can, but I'm at a
crossroads -- sell or expand.
Thank you,
Brett A Mansfield
Silver Lake Internet, LLC
On Aug 14, 2015, at 10:46 PM, Sterling Jacobson wrote:
Ah, I’ve talked to Brett already.
A lawyer is the best way to go.
Wisp moving to fiber is a tall challenge that I honestly couldn’t achieve.
Instead I rolled the sale of the WISP to a fiber company and it cost
hundreds of thousands of dollars.
Good luck Brett and others!
I’m sure it could be boot strapped for less, maybe doing greenfield open
trench access to start.
But it’s still a lot of outlay for a trickle incoming.
I can’t think of how anyone can do what we do for cheaper than we do it,
and it’s still a little unnerving J
From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of ch...@wbmfg.com
Sent: Friday, August 14, 2015 3:38 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] ROW conflict
Talk to Sterling.
From: Brett A Mansfield
Sent: Friday, August 14, 2015 12:49 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] ROW conflict
No, not a CLEC. The other provider is an ILEC though.
My company is just a WISP that is wanting to move to fiber.
Thank you,
Brett A Mansfield
Silver Lake Internet, LLC
On Aug 14, 2015, at 12:44 PM, Chuck Hogg wrote:
Are you a CLEC? That changes things, because if they have allowed
someone in the ROW already, I think they have to allow you too. There was some
rule passed, maybe in the Telecom Act, that states that cities cannot
discriminate, and must allow all providers. IANAL...
I am currently in a battle with my city because they want to charge me a
franchise tax...that they don't charge to AT&T, Windstream, or Sprint.
Regards,
Chuck
On Fri, Aug 14, 2015 at 2:31 PM, Brett A Mansfield
wrote:
Me and another company have both requested access to the city ROW to
run FTTx on the same day in the same city, and the response from the city was
that they are trying to decide if they want to allow access to one or both of
us or if they feel their current formally city funded company is enough.
My question to the group is, is it even up to them or is it up to the
residents? And if I cannot get into the ROW, what alternatives do I have?
Thank you,
Brett A Mansfield
Silver Lake Internet, LLC
Re: [AFMUG] ROW conflict
Mayor? Of Abilene? On Aug 14, 2015 2:18 PM, "Lewis Bergman" wrote: > Although not a lawyer, I am a mayor. I have found that all you really need > to do is get o one person on the council to see things your way. Mayor, > councilman, whatever. If one person is really for something out will pass > if nobody else cares one way or the other. They will all vote for it. Find > that one person. > > On Fri, Aug 14, 2015, 1:31 PM Brett A Mansfield < > li...@silverlakeinternet.com> wrote: > >> Me and another company have both requested access to the city ROW to run >> FTTx on the same day in the same city, and the response from the city was >> that they are trying to decide if they want to allow access to one or both >> of us or if they feel their current formally city funded company is enough. >> >> My question to the group is, is it even up to them or is it up to the >> residents? And if I cannot get into the ROW, what alternatives do I have? >> >> Thank you, >> Brett A Mansfield >> Silver Lake Internet, LLC >> >
Re: [AFMUG] ROW conflict
No.. Tiny Winters Texas. On Sat, Aug 15, 2015, 11:35 AM Jaime Solorza wrote: > Mayor? Of Abilene? > On Aug 14, 2015 2:18 PM, "Lewis Bergman" wrote: > >> Although not a lawyer, I am a mayor. I have found that all you really >> need to do is get o one person on the council to see things your way. >> Mayor, councilman, whatever. If one person is really for something out will >> pass if nobody else cares one way or the other. They will all vote for it. >> Find that one person. >> >> On Fri, Aug 14, 2015, 1:31 PM Brett A Mansfield < >> li...@silverlakeinternet.com> wrote: >> >>> Me and another company have both requested access to the city ROW to run >>> FTTx on the same day in the same city, and the response from the city was >>> that they are trying to decide if they want to allow access to one or both >>> of us or if they feel their current formally city funded company is enough. >>> >>> My question to the group is, is it even up to them or is it up to the >>> residents? And if I cannot get into the ROW, what alternatives do I have? >>> >>> Thank you, >>> Brett A Mansfield >>> Silver Lake Internet, LLC >>> >>
Re: [AFMUG] ROW conflict
I have been there when God was a bsby On Aug 15, 2015 12:11 PM, "Lewis Bergman" wrote: > No.. Tiny Winters Texas. > > On Sat, Aug 15, 2015, 11:35 AM Jaime Solorza > wrote: > >> Mayor? Of Abilene? >> On Aug 14, 2015 2:18 PM, "Lewis Bergman" wrote: >> >>> Although not a lawyer, I am a mayor. I have found that all you really >>> need to do is get o one person on the council to see things your way. >>> Mayor, councilman, whatever. If one person is really for something out will >>> pass if nobody else cares one way or the other. They will all vote for it. >>> Find that one person. >>> >>> On Fri, Aug 14, 2015, 1:31 PM Brett A Mansfield < >>> li...@silverlakeinternet.com> wrote: >>> Me and another company have both requested access to the city ROW to run FTTx on the same day in the same city, and the response from the city was that they are trying to decide if they want to allow access to one or both of us or if they feel their current formally city funded company is enough. My question to the group is, is it even up to them or is it up to the residents? And if I cannot get into the ROW, what alternatives do I have? Thank you, Brett A Mansfield Silver Lake Internet, LLC >>>
Re: [AFMUG] ROW conflict
Coleman ISD project days On Aug 15, 2015 12:11 PM, "Lewis Bergman" wrote: > No.. Tiny Winters Texas. > > On Sat, Aug 15, 2015, 11:35 AM Jaime Solorza > wrote: > >> Mayor? Of Abilene? >> On Aug 14, 2015 2:18 PM, "Lewis Bergman" wrote: >> >>> Although not a lawyer, I am a mayor. I have found that all you really >>> need to do is get o one person on the council to see things your way. >>> Mayor, councilman, whatever. If one person is really for something out will >>> pass if nobody else cares one way or the other. They will all vote for it. >>> Find that one person. >>> >>> On Fri, Aug 14, 2015, 1:31 PM Brett A Mansfield < >>> li...@silverlakeinternet.com> wrote: >>> Me and another company have both requested access to the city ROW to run FTTx on the same day in the same city, and the response from the city was that they are trying to decide if they want to allow access to one or both of us or if they feel their current formally city funded company is enough. My question to the group is, is it even up to them or is it up to the residents? And if I cannot get into the ROW, what alternatives do I have? Thank you, Brett A Mansfield Silver Lake Internet, LLC >>>
