Re: [AFMUG] The latest gig city
I will bring my Manrikigusari On Sep 18, 2016 12:57 PM, wrote: > > From: "That One Guy /sarcasm" > > > > this just wont get solved with words. There can be only one. > Fair enough. I'll bring my longsword. > > Jared >
Re: [AFMUG] The latest gig city
> From: "That One Guy /sarcasm" > > this just wont get solved with words. There can be only one. Fair enough. I'll bring my longsword. Jared
Re: [AFMUG] The latest gig city
this just wont get solved with words. There can be only one. bring on the fisticuffs On Sat, Sep 17, 2016 at 1:21 PM, wrote: > I'll grant you that there is only so much space for poles. However, I used > the qualifier not permanently to denote that poles do get replaced, either > to make room for more cables or because they have a finite lifetime. Hence > my argument is that while poles do consume non-renevable resources, the > consumption is not permanent and final, as new poles will replace old ones. > > Jared > > > Sent: Saturday, September 17, 2016 at 6:46 PM > > From: "Chuck McCown" > > To: af@afmug.com > > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] The latest gig city > > > > Poles actually do permanently consume non renewable resources. There is > only so much room for a pole line along most streets and roads. Once that > room is consumed it is gone. Even private easements are “perpetual” and > “run with the land”. > > > > From: CBB - Jay Fuller > > Sent: Saturday, September 17, 2016 9:53 AM > > To: af@afmug.com > > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] The latest gig city > > > > > > where is my popcorn... > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Jaime Solorza > > To: Animal Farm > > Sent: Saturday, September 17, 2016 10:38 AM > > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] The latest gig city > > > > I will stand in for Chuck, not that he needs help, just haven't > tangled in a while... Getting rusty > > > > > > On Sep 17, 2016 9:23 AM, "That One Guy /sarcasm" < > thatoneguyst...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > So, will chuck and jared be gladiator fighting in the cage after > Patrick and whoever challenges him ? > > > > > > On Sep 17, 2016 5:10 AM, "Jeff Broadwick - Lists" > wrote: > > > > Great post Jared! > > > > Jeff Broadwick > > ConVergence Technologies, Inc. > > 312-205-2519 Office > > 574-220-7826 Cell > > jbroadw...@converge-tech.com > > > > On Sep 17, 2016, at 1:16 AM, fiber...@mail.com wrote: > > > > > > From: chuck > > > > > > > > Why should you even get access to my ducts or my poles in the > first place? > > > > Because you put them in the public right of way. > > If you want private ducts and poles, go negotiate your own > easements and build on private land. > > > > > > I paid to have them put in for my use. > > > > So you did. We, the public, still get to set the rules (by > proxy) on how the poles are to be used on "our" land. > > > > > > I realize it is somewhat the "law of > > > > the commons" but even then, those who file for a mining claim > get the spoils > > > > of the mine. This is just a different kind of mine. > > > > The mines analogy isn't really suitable as cables on poles do > not permanently consume non-renewable resources. > > > > > > You still pay an attachment fee because you forced the upgrade > of my pole. > > > > That only makes sense if I had to pay you until the old pole was > paid off. After that you should pay me. > > > > > > You should be grateful there is a pole there you can use in > the first place. > > > > What's there to be grateful about? I just put in my own damn > pole. > > If there was an existing pole there I could use, you should be > grateful for me paying it off for you. > > > > > > Why not break out your horizontal directional drill and stay > the hell off my > > > > poles. > > > > Let's see how you like that argument when I pass an ordinance to > underground all utilities. > > > > Just because you were the first one to put in a pole, does not > mean you should be the only one allowed to benefit from the public right of > way. > > > > > > (Chuck McCown is playing the part of the pissed off, privately > owned, > > > > electrical utility in today's episode. Chuck McCown is not > actually a pole > > > > owner but he plays one on TV). > > > > Jared is playing the part of the outraged and righteous member > of public. In real life Jared is just an ordinary citizen. > > > > Jared > > > -- If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team as part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.
Re: [AFMUG] The latest gig city
I'll grant you that there is only so much space for poles. However, I used the qualifier not permanently to denote that poles do get replaced, either to make room for more cables or because they have a finite lifetime. Hence my argument is that while poles do consume non-renevable resources, the consumption is not permanent and final, as new poles will replace old ones. Jared > Sent: Saturday, September 17, 2016 at 6:46 PM > From: "Chuck McCown" > To: af@afmug.com > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] The latest gig city > > Poles actually do permanently consume non renewable resources. There is only > so much room for a pole line along most streets and roads. Once that room is > consumed it is gone. Even private easements are “perpetual” and “run with > the land”. > > From: CBB - Jay Fuller > Sent: Saturday, September 17, 2016 9:53 AM > To: af@afmug.com > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] The latest gig city > > > where is my popcorn... > > - Original Message - > From: Jaime Solorza > To: Animal Farm > Sent: Saturday, September 17, 2016 10:38 AM > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] The latest gig city > > I will stand in for Chuck, not that he needs help, just haven't tangled in > a while... Getting rusty > > > On Sep 17, 2016 9:23 AM, "That One Guy /sarcasm" > wrote: > > So, will chuck and jared be gladiator fighting in the cage after Patrick > and whoever challenges him ? > > > On Sep 17, 2016 5:10 AM, "Jeff Broadwick - Lists" > wrote: > > Great post Jared! > > Jeff Broadwick > ConVergence Technologies, Inc. > 312-205-2519 Office > 574-220-7826 Cell > jbroadw...@converge-tech.com > > On Sep 17, 2016, at 1:16 AM, fiber...@mail.com wrote: > > > From: chuck > > > > Why should you even get access to my ducts or my poles in the first > place? > > Because you put them in the public right of way. > If you want private ducts and poles, go negotiate your own easements > and build on private land. > > > I paid to have them put in for my use. > > So you did. We, the public, still get to set the rules (by proxy) on > how the poles are to be used on "our" land. > > > I realize it is somewhat the "law of > > the commons" but even then, those who file for a mining claim get > the spoils > > of the mine. This is just a different kind of mine. > > The mines analogy isn't really suitable as cables on poles do not > permanently consume non-renewable resources. > > > You still pay an attachment fee because you forced the upgrade of > my pole. > > That only makes sense if I had to pay you until the old pole was paid > off. After that you should pay me. > > > You should be grateful there is a pole there you can use in the > first place. > > What's there to be grateful about? I just put in my own damn pole. > If there was an existing pole there I could use, you should be > grateful for me paying it off for you. > > > Why not break out your horizontal directional drill and stay the > hell off my > > poles. > > Let's see how you like that argument when I pass an ordinance to > underground all utilities. > > Just because you were the first one to put in a pole, does not mean > you should be the only one allowed to benefit from the public right of way. > > > (Chuck McCown is playing the part of the pissed off, privately > owned, > > electrical utility in today's episode. Chuck McCown is not > actually a pole > > owner but he plays one on TV). > > Jared is playing the part of the outraged and righteous member of > public. In real life Jared is just an ordinary citizen. > > Jared >
Re: [AFMUG] The latest gig city
Poles actually do permanently consume non renewable resources. There is only so much room for a pole line along most streets and roads. Once that room is consumed it is gone. Even private easements are “perpetual” and “run with the land”. From: CBB - Jay Fuller Sent: Saturday, September 17, 2016 9:53 AM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] The latest gig city where is my popcorn... - Original Message - From: Jaime Solorza To: Animal Farm Sent: Saturday, September 17, 2016 10:38 AM Subject: Re: [AFMUG] The latest gig city I will stand in for Chuck, not that he needs help, just haven't tangled in a while... Getting rusty On Sep 17, 2016 9:23 AM, "That One Guy /sarcasm" wrote: So, will chuck and jared be gladiator fighting in the cage after Patrick and whoever challenges him ? On Sep 17, 2016 5:10 AM, "Jeff Broadwick - Lists" wrote: Great post Jared! Jeff Broadwick ConVergence Technologies, Inc. 312-205-2519 Office 574-220-7826 Cell jbroadw...@converge-tech.com On Sep 17, 2016, at 1:16 AM, fiber...@mail.com wrote: From: chuck Why should you even get access to my ducts or my poles in the first place? Because you put them in the public right of way. If you want private ducts and poles, go negotiate your own easements and build on private land. I paid to have them put in for my use. So you did. We, the public, still get to set the rules (by proxy) on how the poles are to be used on "our" land. I realize it is somewhat the "law of the commons" but even then, those who file for a mining claim get the spoils of the mine. This is just a different kind of mine. The mines analogy isn't really suitable as cables on poles do not permanently consume non-renewable resources. You still pay an attachment fee because you forced the upgrade of my pole. That only makes sense if I had to pay you until the old pole was paid off. After that you should pay me. You should be grateful there is a pole there you can use in the first place. What's there to be grateful about? I just put in my own damn pole. If there was an existing pole there I could use, you should be grateful for me paying it off for you. Why not break out your horizontal directional drill and stay the hell off my poles. Let's see how you like that argument when I pass an ordinance to underground all utilities. Just because you were the first one to put in a pole, does not mean you should be the only one allowed to benefit from the public right of way. (Chuck McCown is playing the part of the pissed off, privately owned, electrical utility in today's episode. Chuck McCown is not actually a pole owner but he plays one on TV). Jared is playing the part of the outraged and righteous member of public. In real life Jared is just an ordinary citizen. Jared
Re: [AFMUG] The latest gig city
But I have the monopoly power spells, totally invincible... From: That One Guy /sarcasm Sent: Saturday, September 17, 2016 9:23 AM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] The latest gig city So, will chuck and jared be gladiator fighting in the cage after Patrick and whoever challenges him ? On Sep 17, 2016 5:10 AM, "Jeff Broadwick - Lists" wrote: Great post Jared! Jeff Broadwick ConVergence Technologies, Inc. 312-205-2519 Office 574-220-7826 Cell jbroadw...@converge-tech.com On Sep 17, 2016, at 1:16 AM, fiber...@mail.com wrote: From: chuck Why should you even get access to my ducts or my poles in the first place? Because you put them in the public right of way. If you want private ducts and poles, go negotiate your own easements and build on private land. I paid to have them put in for my use. So you did. We, the public, still get to set the rules (by proxy) on how the poles are to be used on "our" land. I realize it is somewhat the "law of the commons" but even then, those who file for a mining claim get the spoils of the mine. This is just a different kind of mine. The mines analogy isn't really suitable as cables on poles do not permanently consume non-renewable resources. You still pay an attachment fee because you forced the upgrade of my pole. That only makes sense if I had to pay you until the old pole was paid off. After that you should pay me. You should be grateful there is a pole there you can use in the first place. What's there to be grateful about? I just put in my own damn pole. If there was an existing pole there I could use, you should be grateful for me paying it off for you. Why not break out your horizontal directional drill and stay the hell off my poles. Let's see how you like that argument when I pass an ordinance to underground all utilities. Just because you were the first one to put in a pole, does not mean you should be the only one allowed to benefit from the public right of way. (Chuck McCown is playing the part of the pissed off, privately owned, electrical utility in today's episode. Chuck McCown is not actually a pole owner but he plays one on TV). Jared is playing the part of the outraged and righteous member of public. In real life Jared is just an ordinary citizen. Jared
Re: [AFMUG] The latest gig city
where is my popcorn... - Original Message - From: Jaime Solorza To: Animal Farm Sent: Saturday, September 17, 2016 10:38 AM Subject: Re: [AFMUG] The latest gig city I will stand in for Chuck, not that he needs help, just haven't tangled in a while... Getting rusty On Sep 17, 2016 9:23 AM, "That One Guy /sarcasm" wrote: So, will chuck and jared be gladiator fighting in the cage after Patrick and whoever challenges him ? On Sep 17, 2016 5:10 AM, "Jeff Broadwick - Lists" wrote: Great post Jared! Jeff Broadwick ConVergence Technologies, Inc. 312-205-2519 Office 574-220-7826 Cell jbroadw...@converge-tech.com On Sep 17, 2016, at 1:16 AM, fiber...@mail.com wrote: From: chuck Why should you even get access to my ducts or my poles in the first place? Because you put them in the public right of way. If you want private ducts and poles, go negotiate your own easements and build on private land. I paid to have them put in for my use. So you did. We, the public, still get to set the rules (by proxy) on how the poles are to be used on "our" land. I realize it is somewhat the "law of the commons" but even then, those who file for a mining claim get the spoils of the mine. This is just a different kind of mine. The mines analogy isn't really suitable as cables on poles do not permanently consume non-renewable resources. You still pay an attachment fee because you forced the upgrade of my pole. That only makes sense if I had to pay you until the old pole was paid off. After that you should pay me. You should be grateful there is a pole there you can use in the first place. What's there to be grateful about? I just put in my own damn pole. If there was an existing pole there I could use, you should be grateful for me paying it off for you. Why not break out your horizontal directional drill and stay the hell off my poles. Let's see how you like that argument when I pass an ordinance to underground all utilities. Just because you were the first one to put in a pole, does not mean you should be the only one allowed to benefit from the public right of way. (Chuck McCown is playing the part of the pissed off, privately owned, electrical utility in today's episode. Chuck McCown is not actually a pole owner but he plays one on TV). Jared is playing the part of the outraged and righteous member of public. In real life Jared is just an ordinary citizen. Jared
Re: [AFMUG] The latest gig city
I will stand in for Chuck, not that he needs help, just haven't tangled in a while... Getting rusty On Sep 17, 2016 9:23 AM, "That One Guy /sarcasm" wrote: > So, will chuck and jared be gladiator fighting in the cage after Patrick > and whoever challenges him ? > > On Sep 17, 2016 5:10 AM, "Jeff Broadwick - Lists" > wrote: > >> Great post Jared! >> >> Jeff Broadwick >> ConVergence Technologies, Inc. >> 312-205-2519 Office >> 574-220-7826 Cell >> jbroadw...@converge-tech.com >> >> On Sep 17, 2016, at 1:16 AM, fiber...@mail.com wrote: >> >> From: chuck >> >> >> Why should you even get access to my ducts or my poles in the first place? >> >> Because you put them in the public right of way. >> If you want private ducts and poles, go negotiate your own easements and >> build on private land. >> >> I paid to have them put in for my use. >> >> So you did. We, the public, still get to set the rules (by proxy) on how >> the poles are to be used on "our" land. >> >> I realize it is somewhat the "law of >> >> the commons" but even then, those who file for a mining claim get the >> spoils >> >> of the mine. This is just a different kind of mine. >> >> The mines analogy isn't really suitable as cables on poles do not >> permanently consume non-renewable resources. >> >> You still pay an attachment fee because you forced the upgrade of my >> pole. >> >> That only makes sense if I had to pay you until the old pole was paid >> off. After that you should pay me. >> >> You should be grateful there is a pole there you can use in the first >> place. >> >> What's there to be grateful about? I just put in my own damn pole. >> If there was an existing pole there I could use, you should be grateful >> for me paying it off for you. >> >> Why not break out your horizontal directional drill and stay the hell off >> my >> >> poles. >> >> Let's see how you like that argument when I pass an ordinance to >> underground all utilities. >> >> Just because you were the first one to put in a pole, does not mean you >> should be the only one allowed to benefit from the public right of way. >> >> (Chuck McCown is playing the part of the pissed off, privately owned, >> >> electrical utility in today's episode. Chuck McCown is not actually a >> pole >> >> owner but he plays one on TV). >> >> Jared is playing the part of the outraged and righteous member of >> public. In real life Jared is just an ordinary citizen. >> >> Jared >> >>
Re: [AFMUG] The latest gig city
So, will chuck and jared be gladiator fighting in the cage after Patrick and whoever challenges him ? On Sep 17, 2016 5:10 AM, "Jeff Broadwick - Lists" wrote: > Great post Jared! > > Jeff Broadwick > ConVergence Technologies, Inc. > 312-205-2519 Office > 574-220-7826 Cell > jbroadw...@converge-tech.com > > On Sep 17, 2016, at 1:16 AM, fiber...@mail.com wrote: > > From: chuck > > > Why should you even get access to my ducts or my poles in the first place? > > Because you put them in the public right of way. > If you want private ducts and poles, go negotiate your own easements and > build on private land. > > I paid to have them put in for my use. > > So you did. We, the public, still get to set the rules (by proxy) on how > the poles are to be used on "our" land. > > I realize it is somewhat the "law of > > the commons" but even then, those who file for a mining claim get the > spoils > > of the mine. This is just a different kind of mine. > > The mines analogy isn't really suitable as cables on poles do not > permanently consume non-renewable resources. > > You still pay an attachment fee because you forced the upgrade of my pole. > > That only makes sense if I had to pay you until the old pole was paid > off. After that you should pay me. > > You should be grateful there is a pole there you can use in the first > place. > > What's there to be grateful about? I just put in my own damn pole. > If there was an existing pole there I could use, you should be grateful > for me paying it off for you. > > Why not break out your horizontal directional drill and stay the hell off > my > > poles. > > Let's see how you like that argument when I pass an ordinance to > underground all utilities. > > Just because you were the first one to put in a pole, does not mean you > should be the only one allowed to benefit from the public right of way. > > (Chuck McCown is playing the part of the pissed off, privately owned, > > electrical utility in today's episode. Chuck McCown is not actually a > pole > > owner but he plays one on TV). > > Jared is playing the part of the outraged and righteous member of public. > In real life Jared is just an ordinary citizen. > > Jared > >
Re: [AFMUG] The latest gig city
Great post Jared! Jeff Broadwick ConVergence Technologies, Inc. 312-205-2519 Office 574-220-7826 Cell jbroadw...@converge-tech.com On Sep 17, 2016, at 1:16 AM, fiber...@mail.com wrote: >> From: chuck >> >> Why should you even get access to my ducts or my poles in the first place? > Because you put them in the public right of way. > If you want private ducts and poles, go negotiate your own easements and > build on private land. > >> I paid to have them put in for my use. > So you did. We, the public, still get to set the rules (by proxy) on how the > poles are to be used on "our" land. > >> I realize it is somewhat the "law of >> the commons" but even then, those who file for a mining claim get the spoils >> of the mine. This is just a different kind of mine. > The mines analogy isn't really suitable as cables on poles do not > permanently consume non-renewable resources. > >> You still pay an attachment fee because you forced the upgrade of my pole. > That only makes sense if I had to pay you until the old pole was paid off. > After that you should pay me. > >> You should be grateful there is a pole there you can use in the first place. > What's there to be grateful about? I just put in my own damn pole. > If there was an existing pole there I could use, you should be grateful for > me paying it off for you. > >> Why not break out your horizontal directional drill and stay the hell off my >> poles. > Let's see how you like that argument when I pass an ordinance to underground > all utilities. > > Just because you were the first one to put in a pole, does not mean you > should be the only one allowed to benefit from the public right of way. > >> (Chuck McCown is playing the part of the pissed off, privately owned, >> electrical utility in today's episode. Chuck McCown is not actually a pole >> owner but he plays one on TV). > Jared is playing the part of the outraged and righteous member of public. In > real life Jared is just an ordinary citizen. > > Jared
Re: [AFMUG] The latest gig city
> From: chuck > > Why should you even get access to my ducts or my poles in the first place? Because you put them in the public right of way. If you want private ducts and poles, go negotiate your own easements and build on private land. > I paid to have them put in for my use. So you did. We, the public, still get to set the rules (by proxy) on how the poles are to be used on "our" land. > I realize it is somewhat the "law of > the commons" but even then, those who file for a mining claim get the spoils > of the mine. This is just a different kind of mine. The mines analogy isn't really suitable as cables on poles do not permanently consume non-renewable resources. > You still pay an attachment fee because you forced the upgrade of my pole. That only makes sense if I had to pay you until the old pole was paid off. After that you should pay me. > You should be grateful there is a pole there you can use in the first place. What's there to be grateful about? I just put in my own damn pole. If there was an existing pole there I could use, you should be grateful for me paying it off for you. > Why not break out your horizontal directional drill and stay the hell off my > poles. Let's see how you like that argument when I pass an ordinance to underground all utilities. Just because you were the first one to put in a pole, does not mean you should be the only one allowed to benefit from the public right of way. > (Chuck McCown is playing the part of the pissed off, privately owned, > electrical utility in today's episode. Chuck McCown is not actually a pole > owner but he plays one on TV). Jared is playing the part of the outraged and righteous member of public. In real life Jared is just an ordinary citizen. Jared
Re: [AFMUG] The latest gig city
> You come along and instantly want access and want a third party (lowest > bidder no less) to decide whether or not you are going to overload my pole? Strawman argument. One touch make ready and third party installs do not preclude proper engineering. Also I never said anything about allowing poles to be overloaded. > And then it fails in an ice storm and FERC is all over my ass? This is another deflection. FERC will be all over your ass even if it was you who built it or if it you who contracted it out. It's no different if it was a third party contractor. There is a chain of liability and he who is at fault pays. > The public does not own the poles. Correct. > They should be grateful that they are even allowed access. No. The pole owners should be grateful that they are even allowed in the public right of way. Any infrastructure in the public right of way should be administered in such a way that it benefits the public. This includes non-discrimination and enabling competition. > Pioneer's preference. Pioneer's preference rules, which are no longer in force, is a great way of stifling competition and impeding progress. > Kinda like I built a toll road. Now you want to add lanes to the road I > built? I already covered this above, but to go with your analogy, no, you do not get to have monopoly on toll roads if you built on public land. > And I get no say as to the engineering? You, not so much. Laws, regulations and industry standards, yes. Jared
Re: [AFMUG] The latest gig city
Don't worry Chuck. I'll only tickle your poles when I bore right by them. Craig Schmaderer Cell 402-380-1245 Skywave Wireless, Inc. On Fri, Sep 16, 2016 at 5:14 PM -0500, "ch...@wbmfg.com" mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com>> wrote: I get bored sometimes... From: CBB - Jay Fuller<mailto:par...@cyberbroadband.net> Sent: Friday, September 16, 2016 3:49 PM To: af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] The latest gig city I am so loving these conversations... so happy to be stirring the pot Sent from my Verizon 4G LTE Smartphone - Reply message - From: ch...@wbmfg.com To: Subject: [AFMUG] The latest gig city Date: Fri, Sep 16, 2016 3:26 PM Why should you even get access to my ducts or my poles in the first place? I paid to have them put in for my use. I realize it is somewhat the "law of the commons" but even then, those who file for a mining claim get the spoils of the mine. This is just a different kind of mine. You still pay an attachment fee because you forced the upgrade of my pole. It wasn't overloaded before you came along. I don't even want you on it in the first place, but the law says I have to. Your cable makes it non compliant with FERC. Not my fault. You wanna attach, give me a new pole and pay for the installation. You should be grateful there is a pole there you can use in the first place. Why not break out your horizontal directional drill and stay the hell off my poles. (Chuck McCown is playing the part of the pissed off, privately owned, electrical utility in today's episode. Chuck McCown is not actually a pole owner but he plays one on TV). -Original Message- From: fiber...@mail.com Sent: Friday, September 16, 2016 1:49 PM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] The latest gig city > From: "Chuck McCown" > > The FCC regulates pole contacts. It sure would be nice if they would enforce timely access too. > How are existing competitors denying anyone access to anything? By dragging out make ready work for months on end. Duct owners can also under certain circumstances deny access to duct space. > Why should the > power company be forced to replace a pole at their expense if you want to > attach your cable to it? I don't recall advocation for that. That being said, if I paid for the new pole, why am I still paying pole attachment fees for that pole and why aren't the other users paying *me* the pole attachment fees? Jared
Re: [AFMUG] The latest gig city
I get bored sometimes... From: CBB - Jay Fuller Sent: Friday, September 16, 2016 3:49 PM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] The latest gig city I am so loving these conversations... so happy to be stirring the pot Sent from my Verizon 4G LTE Smartphone - Reply message - From: ch...@wbmfg.com To: Subject: [AFMUG] The latest gig city Date: Fri, Sep 16, 2016 3:26 PM Why should you even get access to my ducts or my poles in the first place? I paid to have them put in for my use. I realize it is somewhat the "law of the commons" but even then, those who file for a mining claim get the spoils of the mine. This is just a different kind of mine. You still pay an attachment fee because you forced the upgrade of my pole. It wasn't overloaded before you came along. I don't even want you on it in the first place, but the law says I have to. Your cable makes it non compliant with FERC. Not my fault. You wanna attach, give me a new pole and pay for the installation. You should be grateful there is a pole there you can use in the first place. Why not break out your horizontal directional drill and stay the hell off my poles. (Chuck McCown is playing the part of the pissed off, privately owned, electrical utility in today's episode. Chuck McCown is not actually a pole owner but he plays one on TV). -Original Message- From: fiber...@mail.com Sent: Friday, September 16, 2016 1:49 PM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] The latest gig city > From: "Chuck McCown" > > The FCC regulates pole contacts. It sure would be nice if they would enforce timely access too. > How are existing competitors denying anyone access to anything? By dragging out make ready work for months on end. Duct owners can also under certain circumstances deny access to duct space. > Why should the > power company be forced to replace a pole at their expense if you want to > attach your cable to it? I don't recall advocation for that. That being said, if I paid for the new pole, why am I still paying pole attachment fees for that pole and why aren't the other users paying *me* the pole attachment fees? Jared
Re: [AFMUG] The latest gig city
I am so loving these conversations... so happy to be stirring the pot Sent from my Verizon 4G LTE Smartphone - Reply message - From: ch...@wbmfg.com To: Subject: [AFMUG] The latest gig city Date: Fri, Sep 16, 2016 3:26 PM Why should you even get access to my ducts or my poles in the first place? I paid to have them put in for my use. I realize it is somewhat the "law of the commons" but even then, those who file for a mining claim get the spoils of the mine. This is just a different kind of mine. You still pay an attachment fee because you forced the upgrade of my pole. It wasn't overloaded before you came along. I don't even want you on it in the first place, but the law says I have to. Your cable makes it non compliant with FERC. Not my fault. You wanna attach, give me a new pole and pay for the installation. You should be grateful there is a pole there you can use in the first place. Why not break out your horizontal directional drill and stay the hell off my poles. (Chuck McCown is playing the part of the pissed off, privately owned, electrical utility in today's episode. Chuck McCown is not actually a pole owner but he plays one on TV). -Original Message- From: fiber...@mail.com Sent: Friday, September 16, 2016 1:49 PM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] The latest gig city > From: "Chuck McCown" > > The FCC regulates pole contacts. It sure would be nice if they would enforce timely access too. > How are existing competitors denying anyone access to anything? By dragging out make ready work for months on end. Duct owners can also under certain circumstances deny access to duct space. > Why should the > power company be forced to replace a pole at their expense if you want to > attach your cable to it? I don't recall advocation for that. That being said, if I paid for the new pole, why am I still paying pole attachment fees for that pole and why aren't the other users paying *me* the pole attachment fees? Jared
Re: [AFMUG] The latest gig city
Why should you even get access to my ducts or my poles in the first place? I paid to have them put in for my use. I realize it is somewhat the "law of the commons" but even then, those who file for a mining claim get the spoils of the mine. This is just a different kind of mine. You still pay an attachment fee because you forced the upgrade of my pole. It wasn't overloaded before you came along. I don't even want you on it in the first place, but the law says I have to. Your cable makes it non compliant with FERC. Not my fault. You wanna attach, give me a new pole and pay for the installation. You should be grateful there is a pole there you can use in the first place. Why not break out your horizontal directional drill and stay the hell off my poles. (Chuck McCown is playing the part of the pissed off, privately owned, electrical utility in today's episode. Chuck McCown is not actually a pole owner but he plays one on TV). -Original Message- From: fiber...@mail.com Sent: Friday, September 16, 2016 1:49 PM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] The latest gig city From: "Chuck McCown" The FCC regulates pole contacts. It sure would be nice if they would enforce timely access too. How are existing competitors denying anyone access to anything? By dragging out make ready work for months on end. Duct owners can also under certain circumstances deny access to duct space. Why should the power company be forced to replace a pole at their expense if you want to attach your cable to it? I don't recall advocation for that. That being said, if I paid for the new pole, why am I still paying pole attachment fees for that pole and why aren't the other users paying *me* the pole attachment fees? Jared
Re: [AFMUG] The latest gig city
So, I own these poles. FERC says I can only load them so much. And there are already a bunch of other people renting space on them. You come along and instantly want access and want a third party (lowest bidder no less) to decide whether or not you are going to overload my pole? And then it fails in an ice storm and FERC is all over my ass? The public does not own the poles. They should be grateful that they are even allowed access. Pioneer's preference. Kinda like I built a toll road. Now you want to add lanes to the road I built? And I get no say as to the engineering? -Original Message- From: fiber...@mail.com Sent: Friday, September 16, 2016 1:57 PM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] The latest gig city How about we enact one touch make ready and allow third parties to bid on make ready work? No more unreasonable delays and market based costs for make ready work. Jared Sent: Friday, September 16, 2016 at 6:42 PM From: "Chuck McCown" To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] The latest gig city Curious, name an obstacle that needs to be removed. Not saying there are none. There are plenty. Just curious which one could be removed. -Original Message- From: Ken Hohhof Sent: Friday, September 16, 2016 9:39 AM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] The latest gig city He didn't say it was easy or cheap. More like it can be done, if you fill out the paperwork, pay your fees, and wait like everybody else. I have to agree. If the obstacles need to be taken out of the way, they should be removed for everyone. Not just Google because they're special. (insert talking points about level playing field, government not picking winners and losers, etc.) I know, this sounds like complaining that Uber unfairly competes with taxis, or Airbnb unfairly competes with hotels. Cry me a river, but it's not so funny if it's your ox getting gored. -Original Message- From: fiber...@mail.com Sent: Friday, September 16, 2016 10:11 AM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] The latest gig city > From: "Mike Hammett" > > You can do whatever you want nearly wherever you want. Never ever had a problem with gaining access to poles or ducts from your friendly neighborhood incumbent, never experienced any delays nor had to pay an arm and a leg for the pleasure? Jared
Re: [AFMUG] The latest gig city
> From: "Carl Peterson" > > Once the town starts making a profit, is it reasonable for them to take that > money and plow it into other things or > should they start cutting prices so as to cover expenses and not make a > profit? It's very, very hard to give up a cash cow, government or not. > It would seem to me that it would make sense to fund a future > maintenance/upgrade fund, and then cut prices. Rationally, what you should do depends on how easyly you can borrow new capital and at what interest rates. In today's situation where money is cheap and interest rates are low, the rational thing would be to return profits to owners / cut prices assuming all things are equal. > My feeling is that it is appropriate for governments to run utilities, but > not for governments to run utilities as profit centers to fund other > operations. Isn't the latter how most profitable government owned utilities are run? I've even heard it with pride how much money the utilities pay into the general fund. Jared
Re: [AFMUG] The latest gig city
How about we enact one touch make ready and allow third parties to bid on make ready work? No more unreasonable delays and market based costs for make ready work. Jared > Sent: Friday, September 16, 2016 at 6:42 PM > From: "Chuck McCown" > To: af@afmug.com > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] The latest gig city > > Curious, name an obstacle that needs to be removed. > Not saying there are none. There are plenty. > Just curious which one could be removed. > > -Original Message- > From: Ken Hohhof > Sent: Friday, September 16, 2016 9:39 AM > To: af@afmug.com > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] The latest gig city > > He didn't say it was easy or cheap. More like it can be done, if you fill > out the paperwork, pay your fees, and wait like everybody else. > > I have to agree. If the obstacles need to be taken out of the way, they > should be removed for everyone. Not just Google because they're special. > (insert talking points about level playing field, government not picking > winners and losers, etc.) I know, this sounds like complaining that Uber > unfairly competes with taxis, or Airbnb unfairly competes with hotels. Cry > me a river, but it's not so funny if it's your ox getting gored. > > > -Original Message- > From: fiber...@mail.com > Sent: Friday, September 16, 2016 10:11 AM > To: af@afmug.com > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] The latest gig city > > > From: "Mike Hammett" > > > > You can do whatever you want nearly wherever you want. > Never ever had a problem with gaining access to poles or ducts from your > friendly neighborhood incumbent, never experienced any delays nor had to pay > an arm and a leg for the pleasure? > > Jared > > >
Re: [AFMUG] The latest gig city
> If the obstacles need to be taken out of the way, they > should be removed for everyone. On this we very much agree. > I know, this sounds like complaining that Uber > unfairly competes with taxis, or Airbnb unfairly competes with hotels. It's not. Uber and AirBNB both chose to ignore laws and regulations. Us mere mortals can't do that. Jared
Re: [AFMUG] The latest gig city
> From: "Chuck McCown" > > The FCC regulates pole contacts. It sure would be nice if they would enforce timely access too. > How are existing competitors denying anyone access to anything? By dragging out make ready work for months on end. Duct owners can also under certain circumstances deny access to duct space. > Why should the > power company be forced to replace a pole at their expense if you want to > attach your cable to it? I don't recall advocation for that. That being said, if I paid for the new pole, why am I still paying pole attachment fees for that pole and why aren't the other users paying *me* the pole attachment fees? Jared
Re: [AFMUG] The latest gig city
They claim they are on target to hit break even in 5 years (a year from now). Guessing that means that revenue covers the cost of paying back the bond + OPEX which seems about right assuming they continue to add subs at a reasonable clip. Despite all the hype, this seems like a pretty good deal for the citizens of this town who took the risk taking out the bond. Who cares if no one wants the gig service now? Doesn't really seem relevant to the question of wether the project makes fiscal sense or not. Being able to get money for next to nothing over 20 years does a heck of a lot towards making FTTH make sense. Now for the real question. Once the town starts making a profit, is it reasonable for them to take that money and plow it into other things or should they start cutting prices so as to cover expenses and not make a profit? It would seem to me that it would make sense to fund a future maintenance/upgrade fund, and then cut prices. My feeling is that it is appropriate for governments to run utilities, but not for governments to run utilities as profit centers to fund other operations. Hard to compete with, but it makes a ton of sense if you have an efficient local government that knows what they are doing working at the bequest of its citizens. On Thu, Sep 15, 2016 at 5:19 PM, Josh Luthman wrote: > Takes a long time to pay 43m back with 500/mo revenue. > > > Josh Luthman > Office: 937-552-2340 > Direct: 937-552-2343 > 1100 Wayne St > Suite 1337 > Troy, OH 45373 > > On Thu, Sep 15, 2016 at 5:17 PM, CBB - Jay Fuller < > par...@cyberbroadband.net> wrote: > >> >> But how do you pay for your fiber installation if you don't charge $500 >> for gig speeds? >> >> >> - Original Message - >> *From:* Rory Conaway >> *To:* af@afmug.com >> *Sent:* Thursday, September 15, 2016 12:37 PM >> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] The latest gig city >> >> I’ve written about this multiple times and if I remember right Mike, you >> hammered me. >> >> >> >> We are also doing marketing tests right now and found that even if >> CenturyLink can’t maintain NetFlix without buffering with a supposed 10Mbps >> circuit, offering 50Mbps at the same price doesn’t get people to change >> although that’s early results. We are finding price is better. >> >> >> >> Rory >> >> >> >> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *CBB - Jay Fuller >> *Sent:* Thursday, September 15, 2016 9:40 AM >> *To:* af@afmug.com >> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] The latest gig city >> >> >> >> >> >> I remember hearing Chuck Hogg and Gerard Dupont @ Shelby Wireless explain >> when they started fiber they left it wide open for a few months just to >> see....they did not see an unusually large change just because service was >> wide open >> >> >> >> >> >> - Original Message - >> >> *From:* ch...@wbmfg.com >> >> *To:* af@afmug.com >> >> *Sent:* Thursday, September 15, 2016 11:02 AM >> >> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] The latest gig city >> >> >> >> Back in the early days, I doubled the speeds of all of our customers 2 or >> 3 times due to competitive pressures and advancements in Canopy. I never >> increased the price, just went from 256 to 512 to 1024. Never saw an >> increase in the bandwidth usage on our uplinks. >> >> >> >> What could a Bob and Sally homeowner and their kids do to make a >> significant usage of a Gig? Of course everyone thinks it is sexy and the >> next thing you gotta have, but there only so many 4K 3D TVs a person can >> watch at one time. I guess they could host a server farm etc, but most >> folks will not even fully utilize 50M in the near future. >> >> >> >> *From:* Ken Hohhof >> >> *Sent:* Wednesday, September 14, 2016 11:12 PM >> >> *To:* af@afmug.com >> >> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] The latest gig city >> >> >> >> Interesting. >> >> >> >> Of course, one way to read the numbers is they could “upgrade” all the >> 110/50 customers to 1000/1000 and the only change would be $400 less >> revenue per month, and probably no more bandwidth usage. This is probably >> the marketing approach of most gigabit ISPs. If some killer app comes out >> that actually uses gigabit speeds, their bluff is called. >> >> >> >> >> >> *From:* CBB - Jay Fuller >> >> *Sent:* Wednesday, September 14, 2016 11:40 PM >> >> *To:* af@afmug.com >> >> *Subject:* [AFMUG] The latest gig city >> >> >> >> >> >> One subscriber at the gig level >> >> >> >> http://spectator.org/alabamas-gig-city-has-one-gigabit-broad >> band-subscriber/ >> >> >> >> Sent from my Verizon 4G LTE Smartphone >> >> >> >> > -- Carl Peterson *PORT NETWORKS* 401 E Pratt St, Ste 2553 Baltimore, MD 21202 (410) 637-3707
Re: [AFMUG] The latest gig city
Curious, name an obstacle that needs to be removed. Not saying there are none. There are plenty. Just curious which one could be removed. -Original Message- From: Ken Hohhof Sent: Friday, September 16, 2016 9:39 AM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] The latest gig city He didn't say it was easy or cheap. More like it can be done, if you fill out the paperwork, pay your fees, and wait like everybody else. I have to agree. If the obstacles need to be taken out of the way, they should be removed for everyone. Not just Google because they're special. (insert talking points about level playing field, government not picking winners and losers, etc.) I know, this sounds like complaining that Uber unfairly competes with taxis, or Airbnb unfairly competes with hotels. Cry me a river, but it's not so funny if it's your ox getting gored. -Original Message- From: fiber...@mail.com Sent: Friday, September 16, 2016 10:11 AM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] The latest gig city From: "Mike Hammett" You can do whatever you want nearly wherever you want. Never ever had a problem with gaining access to poles or ducts from your friendly neighborhood incumbent, never experienced any delays nor had to pay an arm and a leg for the pleasure? Jared
Re: [AFMUG] The latest gig city
He didn't say it was easy or cheap. More like it can be done, if you fill out the paperwork, pay your fees, and wait like everybody else. I have to agree. If the obstacles need to be taken out of the way, they should be removed for everyone. Not just Google because they're special. (insert talking points about level playing field, government not picking winners and losers, etc.) I know, this sounds like complaining that Uber unfairly competes with taxis, or Airbnb unfairly competes with hotels. Cry me a river, but it's not so funny if it's your ox getting gored. -Original Message- From: fiber...@mail.com Sent: Friday, September 16, 2016 10:11 AM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] The latest gig city From: "Mike Hammett" You can do whatever you want nearly wherever you want. Never ever had a problem with gaining access to poles or ducts from your friendly neighborhood incumbent, never experienced any delays nor had to pay an arm and a leg for the pleasure? Jared
Re: [AFMUG] The latest gig city
They still get it in many places. From: Mike Hammett Sent: Friday, September 16, 2016 7:30 AM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] The latest gig city You can do whatever you want nearly wherever you want. Google was just expecting the red carpet treatment. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions Midwest Internet Exchange The Brothers WISP From: fiber...@mail.com To: af@afmug.com Sent: Friday, September 16, 2016 8:15:25 AM Subject: Re: [AFMUG] The latest gig city > From: "Harold Bledsoe" > > Then there's the regulatory challenges they face in every market... Is this a polite way of saying that existing regulations do nothing to prevent competitors from doing their best to deny Google access to poles and ducts, or are there actually any regulations that Google is having a hard time fulfilling? Jared
Re: [AFMUG] The latest gig city
The FCC regulates pole contacts. Duct are owned by the duct owners. BIAS providers have the same access to public utility easements as anyone else. How are existing competitors denying anyone access to anything? If a power pole is rotten, by law/fed regulation, it must be replaced. Why should the power company be forced to replace a pole at their expense if you want to attach your cable to it? -Original Message- From: fiber...@mail.com Sent: Friday, September 16, 2016 7:15 AM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] The latest gig city From: "Harold Bledsoe" Then there's the regulatory challenges they face in every market... Is this a polite way of saying that existing regulations do nothing to prevent competitors from doing their best to deny Google access to poles and ducts, or are there actually any regulations that Google is having a hard time fulfilling? Jared
Re: [AFMUG] The latest gig city
Yeah, I would guess time is the main factor. I am also guessing they will drop
it in a few years and go back to fiber.
From: Harold Bledsoe
Sent: Friday, September 16, 2016 5:59 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] The latest gig city
RE Google, I don't think it is just a cost thing. I mean they aren't short on
cash.
I suspect the other major factor is time. It takes a long time to build out
fiber to everyone.
Then there's the regulatory challenges they face in every market...
-Hal
On Thu, Sep 15, 2016, 9:19 PM Rory Conaway wrote:
And that is why Google is finally figuring out that wireless is cheaper.
Rory
From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of ch...@wbmfg.com
Sent: Thursday, September 15, 2016 4:08 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] The latest gig city
Fiber has a very long usable life. Probably 75 years or more.
43 month doubling your money is like 8% ROI. Not too bad.
Then at month 44 it is infinite ROI. How can you complain about that?
From: Travis Johnson
Sent: Thursday, September 15, 2016 4:56 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] The latest gig city
That's why telco's and cableco's use a 20 or 30 year ROI.
Travis
On 9/15/2016 3:19 PM, Josh Luthman wrote:
Takes a long time to pay 43m back with 500/mo revenue.
Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373
On Thu, Sep 15, 2016 at 5:17 PM, CBB - Jay Fuller
wrote:
But how do you pay for your fiber installation if you don't charge $500 for
gig speeds?
- Original Message -
From: Rory Conaway
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: Thursday, September 15, 2016 12:37 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] The latest gig city
I’ve written about this multiple times and if I remember right Mike, you
hammered me.
We are also doing marketing tests right now and found that even if
CenturyLink can’t maintain NetFlix without buffering with a supposed 10Mbps
circuit, offering 50Mbps at the same price doesn’t get people to change
although that’s early results. We are finding price is better.
Rory
From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of CBB - Jay Fuller
Sent: Thursday, September 15, 2016 9:40 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] The latest gig city
I remember hearing Chuck Hogg and Gerard Dupont @ Shelby Wireless explain
when they started fiber they left it wide open for a few months just to
seethey did not see an unusually large change just because service was wide
open
- Original Message -
From: ch...@wbmfg.com
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: Thursday, September 15, 2016 11:02 AM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] The latest gig city
Back in the early days, I doubled the speeds of all of our customers 2
or 3 times due to competitive pressures and advancements in Canopy. I never
increased the price, just went from 256 to 512 to 1024. Never saw an increase
in the bandwidth usage on our uplinks.
What could a Bob and Sally homeowner and their kids do to make a
significant usage of a Gig? Of course everyone thinks it is sexy and the next
thing you gotta have, but there only so many 4K 3D TVs a person can watch at
one time. I guess they could host a server farm etc, but most folks will not
even fully utilize 50M in the near future.
From: Ken Hohhof
Sent: Wednesday, September 14, 2016 11:12 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] The latest gig city
Interesting.
Of course, one way to read the numbers is they could “upgrade” all the
110/50 customers to 1000/1000 and the only change would be $400 less revenue
per month, and probably no more bandwidth usage. This is probably the
marketing approach of most gigabit ISPs. If some killer app comes out that
actually uses gigabit speeds, their bluff is called.
From: CBB - Jay Fuller
Sent: Wednesday, September 14, 2016 11:40 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: [AFMUG] The latest gig city
One subscriber at the gig level
http://spectator.org/alabamas-gig-city-has-one-gigabit-broadband-subscriber/
Sent from my Verizon 4G LTE Smartphone
Re: [AFMUG] The latest gig city
> From: "Mike Hammett" > > You can do whatever you want nearly wherever you want. Never ever had a problem with gaining access to poles or ducts from your friendly neighborhood incumbent, never experienced any delays nor had to pay an arm and a leg for the pleasure? Jared
Re: [AFMUG] The latest gig city
So true. And where’s our welcome from the Lollipop Guild? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6KSiyaqnZYs I think most of us remember 10 years ago when customers were enthralled to get high speed Internet. Now people are much less impressed and much more entitled regarding Internet. Instead of thank you, thank you Mr. ISP, it’s more like hey, it’s about time, now what have you done for me lately. Like people don’t ooh and aah over the latest iPhone the way they did over the first one. Smartphones are a commodity, and so is Internet. From: Mike Hammett Sent: Friday, September 16, 2016 8:30 AM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] The latest gig city You can do whatever you want nearly wherever you want. Google was just expecting the red carpet treatment. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions Midwest Internet Exchange The Brothers WISP From: fiber...@mail.com To: af@afmug.com Sent: Friday, September 16, 2016 8:15:25 AM Subject: Re: [AFMUG] The latest gig city > From: "Harold Bledsoe" > > Then there's the regulatory challenges they face in every market... Is this a polite way of saying that existing regulations do nothing to prevent competitors from doing their best to deny Google access to poles and ducts, or are there actually any regulations that Google is having a hard time fulfilling? Jared
Re: [AFMUG] The latest gig city
You can do whatever you want nearly wherever you want. Google was just expecting the red carpet treatment. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions Midwest Internet Exchange The Brothers WISP - Original Message - From: fiber...@mail.com To: af@afmug.com Sent: Friday, September 16, 2016 8:15:25 AM Subject: Re: [AFMUG] The latest gig city > From: "Harold Bledsoe" > > Then there's the regulatory challenges they face in every market... Is this a polite way of saying that existing regulations do nothing to prevent competitors from doing their best to deny Google access to poles and ducts, or are there actually any regulations that Google is having a hard time fulfilling? Jared
Re: [AFMUG] The latest gig city
> From: "Harold Bledsoe" > > Then there's the regulatory challenges they face in every market... Is this a polite way of saying that existing regulations do nothing to prevent competitors from doing their best to deny Google access to poles and ducts, or are there actually any regulations that Google is having a hard time fulfilling? Jared
Re: [AFMUG] The latest gig city
RE Google, I don't think it is just a cost thing. I mean they aren't short on cash. I suspect the other major factor is time. It takes a long time to build out fiber to everyone. Then there's the regulatory challenges they face in every market... -Hal On Thu, Sep 15, 2016, 9:19 PM Rory Conaway wrote: > And that is why Google is finally figuring out that wireless is cheaper. > > > > Rory > > > > *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *ch...@wbmfg.com > *Sent:* Thursday, September 15, 2016 4:08 PM > > > *To:* af@afmug.com > *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] The latest gig city > > > > Fiber has a very long usable life. Probably 75 years or more. > > > > 43 month doubling your money is like 8% ROI. Not too bad. > > > > Then at month 44 it is infinite ROI. How can you complain about that? > > > > *From:* Travis Johnson > > *Sent:* Thursday, September 15, 2016 4:56 PM > > *To:* af@afmug.com > > *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] The latest gig city > > > > That's why telco's and cableco's use a 20 or 30 year ROI. > > Travis > > On 9/15/2016 3:19 PM, Josh Luthman wrote: > > Takes a long time to pay 43m back with 500/mo revenue. > > > > > > Josh Luthman > Office: 937-552-2340 > Direct: 937-552-2343 > 1100 Wayne St > Suite 1337 > Troy, OH 45373 > > > > On Thu, Sep 15, 2016 at 5:17 PM, CBB - Jay Fuller < > par...@cyberbroadband.net> wrote: > > > > But how do you pay for your fiber installation if you don't charge $500 > for gig speeds? > > > > - Original Message - > > *From:* Rory Conaway > > *To:* af@afmug.com > > *Sent:* Thursday, September 15, 2016 12:37 PM > > *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] The latest gig city > > > > I’ve written about this multiple times and if I remember right Mike, you > hammered me. > > > > We are also doing marketing tests right now and found that even if > CenturyLink can’t maintain NetFlix without buffering with a supposed 10Mbps > circuit, offering 50Mbps at the same price doesn’t get people to change > although that’s early results. We are finding price is better. > > > > Rory > > > > *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *CBB - Jay Fuller > *Sent:* Thursday, September 15, 2016 9:40 AM > *To:* af@afmug.com > *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] The latest gig city > > > > > > I remember hearing Chuck Hogg and Gerard Dupont @ Shelby Wireless explain > when they started fiber they left it wide open for a few months just to > seethey did not see an unusually large change just because service was > wide open > > > > > > - Original Message - > > *From:* ch...@wbmfg.com > > *To:* af@afmug.com > > *Sent:* Thursday, September 15, 2016 11:02 AM > > *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] The latest gig city > > > > Back in the early days, I doubled the speeds of all of our customers 2 or > 3 times due to competitive pressures and advancements in Canopy. I never > increased the price, just went from 256 to 512 to 1024. Never saw an > increase in the bandwidth usage on our uplinks. > > > > What could a Bob and Sally homeowner and their kids do to make a > significant usage of a Gig? Of course everyone thinks it is sexy and the > next thing you gotta have, but there only so many 4K 3D TVs a person can > watch at one time. I guess they could host a server farm etc, but most > folks will not even fully utilize 50M in the near future. > > > > *From:* Ken Hohhof > > *Sent:* Wednesday, September 14, 2016 11:12 PM > > *To:* af@afmug.com > > *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] The latest gig city > > > > Interesting. > > > > Of course, one way to read the numbers is they could “upgrade” all the > 110/50 customers to 1000/1000 and the only change would be $400 less > revenue per month, and probably no more bandwidth usage. This is probably > the marketing approach of most gigabit ISPs. If some killer app comes out > that actually uses gigabit speeds, their bluff is called. > > > > > > *From:* CBB - Jay Fuller > > *Sent:* Wednesday, September 14, 2016 11:40 PM > > *To:* af@afmug.com > > *Subject:* [AFMUG] The latest gig city > > > > > > One subscriber at the gig level > > > > > http://spectator.org/alabamas-gig-city-has-one-gigabit-broadband-subscriber/ > > > > Sent from my Verizon 4G LTE Smartphone > > > > > > >
Re: [AFMUG] The latest gig city
> Takes a long time to pay 43m back with 500/mo revenue. Looking at FY15 financials, their Telecoms division made $3.7M and lost $1.7M. So they need "only" 285 gig customers to break even. Jared
Re: [AFMUG] The latest gig city
Hum? Sex in wireless Has a ring to it On Sep 15, 2016 7:20 PM, "Chuck McCown" wrote: > yeahbut, tain’t fiber. No sex in wireless. > > *From:* Rory Conaway > *Sent:* Thursday, September 15, 2016 7:19 PM > *To:* af@afmug.com > *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] The latest gig city > > > And that is why Google is finally figuring out that wireless is cheaper. > > > > Rory > > > > *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *ch...@wbmfg.com > *Sent:* Thursday, September 15, 2016 4:08 PM > *To:* af@afmug.com > *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] The latest gig city > > > > Fiber has a very long usable life. Probably 75 years or more. > > > > 43 month doubling your money is like 8% ROI. Not too bad. > > > > Then at month 44 it is infinite ROI. How can you complain about that? > > > > *From:* Travis Johnson > > *Sent:* Thursday, September 15, 2016 4:56 PM > > *To:* af@afmug.com > > *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] The latest gig city > > > > That's why telco's and cableco's use a 20 or 30 year ROI. > > Travis > > On 9/15/2016 3:19 PM, Josh Luthman wrote: > > Takes a long time to pay 43m back with 500/mo revenue. > > > > > > Josh Luthman > Office: 937-552-2340 > Direct: 937-552-2343 > 1100 Wayne St > Suite 1337 > Troy, OH 45373 > > > > On Thu, Sep 15, 2016 at 5:17 PM, CBB - Jay Fuller < > par...@cyberbroadband.net> wrote: > > > > But how do you pay for your fiber installation if you don't charge $500 > for gig speeds? > > > > - Original Message - > > *From:* Rory Conaway > > *To:* af@afmug.com > > *Sent:* Thursday, September 15, 2016 12:37 PM > > *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] The latest gig city > > > > I’ve written about this multiple times and if I remember right Mike, you > hammered me. > > > > We are also doing marketing tests right now and found that even if > CenturyLink can’t maintain NetFlix without buffering with a supposed 10Mbps > circuit, offering 50Mbps at the same price doesn’t get people to change > although that’s early results. We are finding price is better. > > > > Rory > > > > *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *CBB - Jay Fuller > *Sent:* Thursday, September 15, 2016 9:40 AM > *To:* af@afmug.com > *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] The latest gig city > > > > > > I remember hearing Chuck Hogg and Gerard Dupont @ Shelby Wireless explain > when they started fiber they left it wide open for a few months just to > seethey did not see an unusually large change just because service was > wide open > > > > > > - Original Message - > > *From:* ch...@wbmfg.com > > *To:* af@afmug.com > > *Sent:* Thursday, September 15, 2016 11:02 AM > > *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] The latest gig city > > > > Back in the early days, I doubled the speeds of all of our customers 2 or > 3 times due to competitive pressures and advancements in Canopy. I never > increased the price, just went from 256 to 512 to 1024. Never saw an > increase in the bandwidth usage on our uplinks. > > > > What could a Bob and Sally homeowner and their kids do to make a > significant usage of a Gig? Of course everyone thinks it is sexy and the > next thing you gotta have, but there only so many 4K 3D TVs a person can > watch at one time. I guess they could host a server farm etc, but most > folks will not even fully utilize 50M in the near future. > > > > *From:* Ken Hohhof > > *Sent:* Wednesday, September 14, 2016 11:12 PM > > *To:* af@afmug.com > > *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] The latest gig city > > > > Interesting. > > > > Of course, one way to read the numbers is they could “upgrade” all the > 110/50 customers to 1000/1000 and the only change would be $400 less > revenue per month, and probably no more bandwidth usage. This is probably > the marketing approach of most gigabit ISPs. If some killer app comes out > that actually uses gigabit speeds, their bluff is called. > > > > > > *From:* CBB - Jay Fuller > > *Sent:* Wednesday, September 14, 2016 11:40 PM > > *To:* af@afmug.com > > *Subject:* [AFMUG] The latest gig city > > > > > > One subscriber at the gig level > > > > http://spectator.org/alabamas-gig-city-has-one-gigabit- > broadband-subscriber/ > > > > Sent from my Verizon 4G LTE Smartphone > > > > > > >
Re: [AFMUG] The latest gig city
Fiber isn’t sexy.
From: Chuck McCown
Sent: Thursday, September 15, 2016 8:20 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] The latest gig city
yeahbut, tain’t fiber. No sex in wireless.
From: Rory Conaway
Sent: Thursday, September 15, 2016 7:19 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] The latest gig city
And that is why Google is finally figuring out that wireless is cheaper.
Rory
From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of ch...@wbmfg.com
Sent: Thursday, September 15, 2016 4:08 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] The latest gig city
Fiber has a very long usable life. Probably 75 years or more.
43 month doubling your money is like 8% ROI. Not too bad.
Then at month 44 it is infinite ROI. How can you complain about that?
From: Travis Johnson
Sent: Thursday, September 15, 2016 4:56 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] The latest gig city
That's why telco's and cableco's use a 20 or 30 year ROI.
Travis
On 9/15/2016 3:19 PM, Josh Luthman wrote:
Takes a long time to pay 43m back with 500/mo revenue.
Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373
On Thu, Sep 15, 2016 at 5:17 PM, CBB - Jay Fuller
wrote:
But how do you pay for your fiber installation if you don't charge $500 for
gig speeds?
- Original Message -
From: Rory Conaway
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: Thursday, September 15, 2016 12:37 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] The latest gig city
I’ve written about this multiple times and if I remember right Mike, you
hammered me.
We are also doing marketing tests right now and found that even if
CenturyLink can’t maintain NetFlix without buffering with a supposed 10Mbps
circuit, offering 50Mbps at the same price doesn’t get people to change
although that’s early results. We are finding price is better.
Rory
From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of CBB - Jay Fuller
Sent: Thursday, September 15, 2016 9:40 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] The latest gig city
I remember hearing Chuck Hogg and Gerard Dupont @ Shelby Wireless explain
when they started fiber they left it wide open for a few months just to
seethey did not see an unusually large change just because service was wide
open
- Original Message -
From: ch...@wbmfg.com
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: Thursday, September 15, 2016 11:02 AM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] The latest gig city
Back in the early days, I doubled the speeds of all of our customers 2 or
3 times due to competitive pressures and advancements in Canopy. I never
increased the price, just went from 256 to 512 to 1024. Never saw an increase
in the bandwidth usage on our uplinks.
What could a Bob and Sally homeowner and their kids do to make a
significant usage of a Gig? Of course everyone thinks it is sexy and the next
thing you gotta have, but there only so many 4K 3D TVs a person can watch at
one time. I guess they could host a server farm etc, but most folks will not
even fully utilize 50M in the near future.
From: Ken Hohhof
Sent: Wednesday, September 14, 2016 11:12 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] The latest gig city
Interesting.
Of course, one way to read the numbers is they could “upgrade” all the
110/50 customers to 1000/1000 and the only change would be $400 less revenue
per month, and probably no more bandwidth usage. This is probably the
marketing approach of most gigabit ISPs. If some killer app comes out that
actually uses gigabit speeds, their bluff is called.
From: CBB - Jay Fuller
Sent: Wednesday, September 14, 2016 11:40 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: [AFMUG] The latest gig city
One subscriber at the gig level
http://spectator.org/alabamas-gig-city-has-one-gigabit-broadband-subscriber/
Sent from my Verizon 4G LTE Smartphone
Re: [AFMUG] The latest gig city
yeahbut, tain’t fiber. No sex in wireless.
From: Rory Conaway
Sent: Thursday, September 15, 2016 7:19 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] The latest gig city
And that is why Google is finally figuring out that wireless is cheaper.
Rory
From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of ch...@wbmfg.com
Sent: Thursday, September 15, 2016 4:08 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] The latest gig city
Fiber has a very long usable life. Probably 75 years or more.
43 month doubling your money is like 8% ROI. Not too bad.
Then at month 44 it is infinite ROI. How can you complain about that?
From: Travis Johnson
Sent: Thursday, September 15, 2016 4:56 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] The latest gig city
That's why telco's and cableco's use a 20 or 30 year ROI.
Travis
On 9/15/2016 3:19 PM, Josh Luthman wrote:
Takes a long time to pay 43m back with 500/mo revenue.
Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373
On Thu, Sep 15, 2016 at 5:17 PM, CBB - Jay Fuller
wrote:
But how do you pay for your fiber installation if you don't charge $500 for
gig speeds?
- Original Message -
From: Rory Conaway
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: Thursday, September 15, 2016 12:37 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] The latest gig city
I’ve written about this multiple times and if I remember right Mike, you
hammered me.
We are also doing marketing tests right now and found that even if
CenturyLink can’t maintain NetFlix without buffering with a supposed 10Mbps
circuit, offering 50Mbps at the same price doesn’t get people to change
although that’s early results. We are finding price is better.
Rory
From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of CBB - Jay Fuller
Sent: Thursday, September 15, 2016 9:40 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] The latest gig city
I remember hearing Chuck Hogg and Gerard Dupont @ Shelby Wireless explain
when they started fiber they left it wide open for a few months just to
seethey did not see an unusually large change just because service was wide
open
- Original Message -
From: ch...@wbmfg.com
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: Thursday, September 15, 2016 11:02 AM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] The latest gig city
Back in the early days, I doubled the speeds of all of our customers 2 or
3 times due to competitive pressures and advancements in Canopy. I never
increased the price, just went from 256 to 512 to 1024. Never saw an increase
in the bandwidth usage on our uplinks.
What could a Bob and Sally homeowner and their kids do to make a
significant usage of a Gig? Of course everyone thinks it is sexy and the next
thing you gotta have, but there only so many 4K 3D TVs a person can watch at
one time. I guess they could host a server farm etc, but most folks will not
even fully utilize 50M in the near future.
From: Ken Hohhof
Sent: Wednesday, September 14, 2016 11:12 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] The latest gig city
Interesting.
Of course, one way to read the numbers is they could “upgrade” all the
110/50 customers to 1000/1000 and the only change would be $400 less revenue
per month, and probably no more bandwidth usage. This is probably the
marketing approach of most gigabit ISPs. If some killer app comes out that
actually uses gigabit speeds, their bluff is called.
From: CBB - Jay Fuller
Sent: Wednesday, September 14, 2016 11:40 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: [AFMUG] The latest gig city
One subscriber at the gig level
http://spectator.org/alabamas-gig-city-has-one-gigabit-broadband-subscriber/
Sent from my Verizon 4G LTE Smartphone
Re: [AFMUG] The latest gig city
And that is why Google is finally figuring out that wireless is cheaper. Rory From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of ch...@wbmfg.com Sent: Thursday, September 15, 2016 4:08 PM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] The latest gig city Fiber has a very long usable life. Probably 75 years or more. 43 month doubling your money is like 8% ROI. Not too bad. Then at month 44 it is infinite ROI. How can you complain about that? From: Travis Johnson<mailto:t...@ida.net> Sent: Thursday, September 15, 2016 4:56 PM To: af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] The latest gig city That's why telco's and cableco's use a 20 or 30 year ROI. Travis On 9/15/2016 3:19 PM, Josh Luthman wrote: Takes a long time to pay 43m back with 500/mo revenue. Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 On Thu, Sep 15, 2016 at 5:17 PM, CBB - Jay Fuller mailto:par...@cyberbroadband.net>> wrote: But how do you pay for your fiber installation if you don't charge $500 for gig speeds? - Original Message - From: Rory Conaway<mailto:r...@triadwireless.net> To: af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com> Sent: Thursday, September 15, 2016 12:37 PM Subject: Re: [AFMUG] The latest gig city I’ve written about this multiple times and if I remember right Mike, you hammered me. We are also doing marketing tests right now and found that even if CenturyLink can’t maintain NetFlix without buffering with a supposed 10Mbps circuit, offering 50Mbps at the same price doesn’t get people to change although that’s early results. We are finding price is better. Rory From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com<mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com>] On Behalf Of CBB - Jay Fuller Sent: Thursday, September 15, 2016 9:40 AM To: af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] The latest gig city I remember hearing Chuck Hogg and Gerard Dupont @ Shelby Wireless explain when they started fiber they left it wide open for a few months just to seethey did not see an unusually large change just because service was wide open - Original Message - From: ch...@wbmfg.com<mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com> To: af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com> Sent: Thursday, September 15, 2016 11:02 AM Subject: Re: [AFMUG] The latest gig city Back in the early days, I doubled the speeds of all of our customers 2 or 3 times due to competitive pressures and advancements in Canopy. I never increased the price, just went from 256 to 512 to 1024. Never saw an increase in the bandwidth usage on our uplinks. What could a Bob and Sally homeowner and their kids do to make a significant usage of a Gig? Of course everyone thinks it is sexy and the next thing you gotta have, but there only so many 4K 3D TVs a person can watch at one time. I guess they could host a server farm etc, but most folks will not even fully utilize 50M in the near future. From: Ken Hohhof<mailto:af...@kwisp.com> Sent: Wednesday, September 14, 2016 11:12 PM To: af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] The latest gig city Interesting. Of course, one way to read the numbers is they could “upgrade” all the 110/50 customers to 1000/1000 and the only change would be $400 less revenue per month, and probably no more bandwidth usage. This is probably the marketing approach of most gigabit ISPs. If some killer app comes out that actually uses gigabit speeds, their bluff is called. From: CBB - Jay Fuller<mailto:par...@cyberbroadband.net> Sent: Wednesday, September 14, 2016 11:40 PM To: af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com> Subject: [AFMUG] The latest gig city One subscriber at the gig level http://spectator.org/alabamas-gig-city-has-one-gigabit-broadband-subscriber/ Sent from my Verizon 4G LTE Smartphone
Re: [AFMUG] The latest gig city
Fiber has a very long usable life. Probably 75 years or more.
43 month doubling your money is like 8% ROI. Not too bad.
Then at month 44 it is infinite ROI. How can you complain about that?
From: Travis Johnson
Sent: Thursday, September 15, 2016 4:56 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] The latest gig city
That's why telco's and cableco's use a 20 or 30 year ROI.
Travis
On 9/15/2016 3:19 PM, Josh Luthman wrote:
Takes a long time to pay 43m back with 500/mo revenue.
Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373
On Thu, Sep 15, 2016 at 5:17 PM, CBB - Jay Fuller
wrote:
But how do you pay for your fiber installation if you don't charge $500 for
gig speeds?
- Original Message -
From: Rory Conaway
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: Thursday, September 15, 2016 12:37 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] The latest gig city
I’ve written about this multiple times and if I remember right Mike, you
hammered me.
We are also doing marketing tests right now and found that even if
CenturyLink can’t maintain NetFlix without buffering with a supposed 10Mbps
circuit, offering 50Mbps at the same price doesn’t get people to change
although that’s early results. We are finding price is better.
Rory
From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of CBB - Jay Fuller
Sent: Thursday, September 15, 2016 9:40 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] The latest gig city
I remember hearing Chuck Hogg and Gerard Dupont @ Shelby Wireless explain
when they started fiber they left it wide open for a few months just to
seethey did not see an unusually large change just because service was wide
open
- Original Message -
From: ch...@wbmfg.com
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: Thursday, September 15, 2016 11:02 AM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] The latest gig city
Back in the early days, I doubled the speeds of all of our customers 2
or 3 times due to competitive pressures and advancements in Canopy. I never
increased the price, just went from 256 to 512 to 1024. Never saw an increase
in the bandwidth usage on our uplinks.
What could a Bob and Sally homeowner and their kids do to make a
significant usage of a Gig? Of course everyone thinks it is sexy and the next
thing you gotta have, but there only so many 4K 3D TVs a person can watch at
one time. I guess they could host a server farm etc, but most folks will not
even fully utilize 50M in the near future.
From: Ken Hohhof
Sent: Wednesday, September 14, 2016 11:12 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] The latest gig city
Interesting.
Of course, one way to read the numbers is they could “upgrade” all the
110/50 customers to 1000/1000 and the only change would be $400 less revenue
per month, and probably no more bandwidth usage. This is probably the
marketing approach of most gigabit ISPs. If some killer app comes out that
actually uses gigabit speeds, their bluff is called.
From: CBB - Jay Fuller
Sent: Wednesday, September 14, 2016 11:40 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: [AFMUG] The latest gig city
One subscriber at the gig level
http://spectator.org/alabamas-gig-city-has-one-gigabit-broadband-subscriber/
Sent from my Verizon 4G LTE Smartphone
Re: [AFMUG] The latest gig city
That's why telco's and cableco's use a 20 or 30 year ROI.
Travis
On 9/15/2016 3:19 PM, Josh Luthman wrote:
Takes a long time to pay 43m back with 500/mo revenue.
Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373
On Thu, Sep 15, 2016 at 5:17 PM, CBB - Jay Fuller
mailto:par...@cyberbroadband.net>> wrote:
But how do you pay for your fiber installation if you don't charge
$500 for gig speeds?
- Original Message -
*From:* Rory Conaway <mailto:r...@triadwireless.net>
*To:* af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>
*Sent:* Thursday, September 15, 2016 12:37 PM
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] The latest gig city
I’ve written about this multiple times and if I remember right
Mike, you hammered me.
We are also doing marketing tests right now and found that
even if CenturyLink can’t maintain NetFlix without buffering
with a supposed 10Mbps circuit, offering 50Mbps at the same
price doesn’t get people to change although that’s early
results. We are finding price is better.
Rory
*From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com
<mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com>] *On Behalf Of *CBB - Jay Fuller
*Sent:* Thursday, September 15, 2016 9:40 AM
*To:* af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] The latest gig city
I remember hearing Chuck Hogg and Gerard Dupont @ Shelby
Wireless explain when they started fiber they left it wide
open for a few months just to seethey did not see an
unusually large change just because service was wide open
- Original Message -
*From:*ch...@wbmfg.com <mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com>
*To:*af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>
*Sent:*Thursday, September 15, 2016 11:02 AM
*Subject:*Re: [AFMUG] The latest gig city
Back in the early days, I doubled the speeds of all of our
customers 2 or 3 times due to competitive pressures and
advancements in Canopy. I never increased the price, just
went from 256 to 512 to 1024. Never saw an increase in
the bandwidth usage on our uplinks.
What could a Bob and Sally homeowner and their kids do to
make a significant usage of a Gig? Of course everyone
thinks it is sexy and the next thing you gotta have, but
there only so many 4K 3D TVs a person can watch at one
time. I guess they could host a server farm etc, but most
folks will not even fully utilize 50M in the near future.
*From:*Ken Hohhof <mailto:af...@kwisp.com>
*Sent:*Wednesday, September 14, 2016 11:12 PM
*To:*af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>
*Subject:*Re: [AFMUG] The latest gig city
Interesting.
Of course, one way to read the numbers is they could
“upgrade” all the 110/50 customers to 1000/1000 and the
only change would be $400 less revenue per month, and
probably no more bandwidth usage. This is probably the
marketing approach of most gigabit ISPs. If some killer
app comes out that actually uses gigabit speeds, their
bluff is called.
*From:*CBB - Jay Fuller <mailto:par...@cyberbroadband.net>
*Sent:*Wednesday, September 14, 2016 11:40 PM
*To:*af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>
*Subject:*[AFMUG] The latest gig city
One subscriber at the gig level
http://spectator.org/alabamas-gig-city-has-one-gigabit-broadband-subscriber/
<http://spectator.org/alabamas-gig-city-has-one-gigabit-broadband-subscriber/>
Sent from my Verizon 4G LTE Smartphone
Re: [AFMUG] The latest gig city
I'm guessing the /s is implied? On Sep 15, 2016 4:17 PM, "CBB - Jay Fuller" wrote: > > But how do you pay for your fiber installation if you don't charge $500 > for gig speeds? > > > - Original Message - > *From:* Rory Conaway > *To:* af@afmug.com > *Sent:* Thursday, September 15, 2016 12:37 PM > *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] The latest gig city > > I’ve written about this multiple times and if I remember right Mike, you > hammered me. > > > > We are also doing marketing tests right now and found that even if > CenturyLink can’t maintain NetFlix without buffering with a supposed 10Mbps > circuit, offering 50Mbps at the same price doesn’t get people to change > although that’s early results. We are finding price is better. > > > > Rory > > > > *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *CBB - Jay Fuller > *Sent:* Thursday, September 15, 2016 9:40 AM > *To:* af@afmug.com > *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] The latest gig city > > > > > > I remember hearing Chuck Hogg and Gerard Dupont @ Shelby Wireless explain > when they started fiber they left it wide open for a few months just to > seethey did not see an unusually large change just because service was > wide open > > > > > > ----- Original Message - > > *From:* ch...@wbmfg.com > > *To:* af@afmug.com > > *Sent:* Thursday, September 15, 2016 11:02 AM > > *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] The latest gig city > > > > Back in the early days, I doubled the speeds of all of our customers 2 or > 3 times due to competitive pressures and advancements in Canopy. I never > increased the price, just went from 256 to 512 to 1024. Never saw an > increase in the bandwidth usage on our uplinks. > > > > What could a Bob and Sally homeowner and their kids do to make a > significant usage of a Gig? Of course everyone thinks it is sexy and the > next thing you gotta have, but there only so many 4K 3D TVs a person can > watch at one time. I guess they could host a server farm etc, but most > folks will not even fully utilize 50M in the near future. > > > > *From:* Ken Hohhof > > *Sent:* Wednesday, September 14, 2016 11:12 PM > > *To:* af@afmug.com > > *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] The latest gig city > > > > Interesting. > > > > Of course, one way to read the numbers is they could “upgrade” all the > 110/50 customers to 1000/1000 and the only change would be $400 less > revenue per month, and probably no more bandwidth usage. This is probably > the marketing approach of most gigabit ISPs. If some killer app comes out > that actually uses gigabit speeds, their bluff is called. > > > > > > *From:* CBB - Jay Fuller > > *Sent:* Wednesday, September 14, 2016 11:40 PM > > *To:* af@afmug.com > > *Subject:* [AFMUG] The latest gig city > > > > > > One subscriber at the gig level > > > > http://spectator.org/alabamas-gig-city-has-one-gigabit- > broadband-subscriber/ > > > > Sent from my Verizon 4G LTE Smartphone > > > >
Re: [AFMUG] The latest gig city
Takes a long time to pay 43m back with 500/mo revenue. Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 On Thu, Sep 15, 2016 at 5:17 PM, CBB - Jay Fuller wrote: > > But how do you pay for your fiber installation if you don't charge $500 > for gig speeds? > > > - Original Message - > *From:* Rory Conaway > *To:* af@afmug.com > *Sent:* Thursday, September 15, 2016 12:37 PM > *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] The latest gig city > > I’ve written about this multiple times and if I remember right Mike, you > hammered me. > > > > We are also doing marketing tests right now and found that even if > CenturyLink can’t maintain NetFlix without buffering with a supposed 10Mbps > circuit, offering 50Mbps at the same price doesn’t get people to change > although that’s early results. We are finding price is better. > > > > Rory > > > > *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *CBB - Jay Fuller > *Sent:* Thursday, September 15, 2016 9:40 AM > *To:* af@afmug.com > *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] The latest gig city > > > > > > I remember hearing Chuck Hogg and Gerard Dupont @ Shelby Wireless explain > when they started fiber they left it wide open for a few months just to > seethey did not see an unusually large change just because service was > wide open > > > > > > - Original Message ----- > > *From:* ch...@wbmfg.com > > *To:* af@afmug.com > > *Sent:* Thursday, September 15, 2016 11:02 AM > > *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] The latest gig city > > > > Back in the early days, I doubled the speeds of all of our customers 2 or > 3 times due to competitive pressures and advancements in Canopy. I never > increased the price, just went from 256 to 512 to 1024. Never saw an > increase in the bandwidth usage on our uplinks. > > > > What could a Bob and Sally homeowner and their kids do to make a > significant usage of a Gig? Of course everyone thinks it is sexy and the > next thing you gotta have, but there only so many 4K 3D TVs a person can > watch at one time. I guess they could host a server farm etc, but most > folks will not even fully utilize 50M in the near future. > > > > *From:* Ken Hohhof > > *Sent:* Wednesday, September 14, 2016 11:12 PM > > *To:* af@afmug.com > > *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] The latest gig city > > > > Interesting. > > > > Of course, one way to read the numbers is they could “upgrade” all the > 110/50 customers to 1000/1000 and the only change would be $400 less > revenue per month, and probably no more bandwidth usage. This is probably > the marketing approach of most gigabit ISPs. If some killer app comes out > that actually uses gigabit speeds, their bluff is called. > > > > > > *From:* CBB - Jay Fuller > > *Sent:* Wednesday, September 14, 2016 11:40 PM > > *To:* af@afmug.com > > *Subject:* [AFMUG] The latest gig city > > > > > > One subscriber at the gig level > > > > http://spectator.org/alabamas-gig-city-has-one-gigabit- > broadband-subscriber/ > > > > Sent from my Verizon 4G LTE Smartphone > > > >
Re: [AFMUG] The latest gig city
But how do you pay for your fiber installation if you don't charge $500 for gig speeds? - Original Message - From: Rory Conaway To: af@afmug.com Sent: Thursday, September 15, 2016 12:37 PM Subject: Re: [AFMUG] The latest gig city I’ve written about this multiple times and if I remember right Mike, you hammered me. We are also doing marketing tests right now and found that even if CenturyLink can’t maintain NetFlix without buffering with a supposed 10Mbps circuit, offering 50Mbps at the same price doesn’t get people to change although that’s early results. We are finding price is better. Rory From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of CBB - Jay Fuller Sent: Thursday, September 15, 2016 9:40 AM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] The latest gig city I remember hearing Chuck Hogg and Gerard Dupont @ Shelby Wireless explain when they started fiber they left it wide open for a few months just to seethey did not see an unusually large change just because service was wide open - Original Message - From: ch...@wbmfg.com To: af@afmug.com Sent: Thursday, September 15, 2016 11:02 AM Subject: Re: [AFMUG] The latest gig city Back in the early days, I doubled the speeds of all of our customers 2 or 3 times due to competitive pressures and advancements in Canopy. I never increased the price, just went from 256 to 512 to 1024. Never saw an increase in the bandwidth usage on our uplinks. What could a Bob and Sally homeowner and their kids do to make a significant usage of a Gig? Of course everyone thinks it is sexy and the next thing you gotta have, but there only so many 4K 3D TVs a person can watch at one time. I guess they could host a server farm etc, but most folks will not even fully utilize 50M in the near future. From: Ken Hohhof Sent: Wednesday, September 14, 2016 11:12 PM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] The latest gig city Interesting. Of course, one way to read the numbers is they could “upgrade” all the 110/50 customers to 1000/1000 and the only change would be $400 less revenue per month, and probably no more bandwidth usage. This is probably the marketing approach of most gigabit ISPs. If some killer app comes out that actually uses gigabit speeds, their bluff is called. From: CBB - Jay Fuller Sent: Wednesday, September 14, 2016 11:40 PM To: af@afmug.com Subject: [AFMUG] The latest gig city One subscriber at the gig level http://spectator.org/alabamas-gig-city-has-one-gigabit-broadband-subscriber/ Sent from my Verizon 4G LTE Smartphone
Re: [AFMUG] The latest gig city
I’ve written about this multiple times and if I remember right Mike, you hammered me. We are also doing marketing tests right now and found that even if CenturyLink can’t maintain NetFlix without buffering with a supposed 10Mbps circuit, offering 50Mbps at the same price doesn’t get people to change although that’s early results. We are finding price is better. Rory From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of CBB - Jay Fuller Sent: Thursday, September 15, 2016 9:40 AM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] The latest gig city I remember hearing Chuck Hogg and Gerard Dupont @ Shelby Wireless explain when they started fiber they left it wide open for a few months just to seethey did not see an unusually large change just because service was wide open - Original Message - From: ch...@wbmfg.com<mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com> To: af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com> Sent: Thursday, September 15, 2016 11:02 AM Subject: Re: [AFMUG] The latest gig city Back in the early days, I doubled the speeds of all of our customers 2 or 3 times due to competitive pressures and advancements in Canopy. I never increased the price, just went from 256 to 512 to 1024. Never saw an increase in the bandwidth usage on our uplinks. What could a Bob and Sally homeowner and their kids do to make a significant usage of a Gig? Of course everyone thinks it is sexy and the next thing you gotta have, but there only so many 4K 3D TVs a person can watch at one time. I guess they could host a server farm etc, but most folks will not even fully utilize 50M in the near future. From: Ken Hohhof<mailto:af...@kwisp.com> Sent: Wednesday, September 14, 2016 11:12 PM To: af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] The latest gig city Interesting. Of course, one way to read the numbers is they could “upgrade” all the 110/50 customers to 1000/1000 and the only change would be $400 less revenue per month, and probably no more bandwidth usage. This is probably the marketing approach of most gigabit ISPs. If some killer app comes out that actually uses gigabit speeds, their bluff is called. From: CBB - Jay Fuller<mailto:par...@cyberbroadband.net> Sent: Wednesday, September 14, 2016 11:40 PM To: af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com> Subject: [AFMUG] The latest gig city One subscriber at the gig level http://spectator.org/alabamas-gig-city-has-one-gigabit-broadband-subscriber/ Sent from my Verizon 4G LTE Smartphone
Re: [AFMUG] The latest gig city
I remember hearing Chuck Hogg and Gerard Dupont @ Shelby Wireless explain when they started fiber they left it wide open for a few months just to seethey did not see an unusually large change just because service was wide open - Original Message - From: ch...@wbmfg.com To: af@afmug.com Sent: Thursday, September 15, 2016 11:02 AM Subject: Re: [AFMUG] The latest gig city Back in the early days, I doubled the speeds of all of our customers 2 or 3 times due to competitive pressures and advancements in Canopy. I never increased the price, just went from 256 to 512 to 1024. Never saw an increase in the bandwidth usage on our uplinks. What could a Bob and Sally homeowner and their kids do to make a significant usage of a Gig? Of course everyone thinks it is sexy and the next thing you gotta have, but there only so many 4K 3D TVs a person can watch at one time. I guess they could host a server farm etc, but most folks will not even fully utilize 50M in the near future. From: Ken Hohhof Sent: Wednesday, September 14, 2016 11:12 PM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] The latest gig city Interesting. Of course, one way to read the numbers is they could “upgrade” all the 110/50 customers to 1000/1000 and the only change would be $400 less revenue per month, and probably no more bandwidth usage. This is probably the marketing approach of most gigabit ISPs. If some killer app comes out that actually uses gigabit speeds, their bluff is called. From: CBB - Jay Fuller Sent: Wednesday, September 14, 2016 11:40 PM To: af@afmug.com Subject: [AFMUG] The latest gig city One subscriber at the gig level http://spectator.org/alabamas-gig-city-has-one-gigabit-broadband-subscriber/ Sent from my Verizon 4G LTE Smartphone
Re: [AFMUG] The latest gig city
Back in the early days, I doubled the speeds of all of our customers 2 or 3 times due to competitive pressures and advancements in Canopy. I never increased the price, just went from 256 to 512 to 1024. Never saw an increase in the bandwidth usage on our uplinks. What could a Bob and Sally homeowner and their kids do to make a significant usage of a Gig? Of course everyone thinks it is sexy and the next thing you gotta have, but there only so many 4K 3D TVs a person can watch at one time. I guess they could host a server farm etc, but most folks will not even fully utilize 50M in the near future. From: Ken Hohhof Sent: Wednesday, September 14, 2016 11:12 PM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] The latest gig city Interesting. Of course, one way to read the numbers is they could “upgrade” all the 110/50 customers to 1000/1000 and the only change would be $400 less revenue per month, and probably no more bandwidth usage. This is probably the marketing approach of most gigabit ISPs. If some killer app comes out that actually uses gigabit speeds, their bluff is called. From: CBB - Jay Fuller Sent: Wednesday, September 14, 2016 11:40 PM To: af@afmug.com Subject: [AFMUG] The latest gig city One subscriber at the gig level http://spectator.org/alabamas-gig-city-has-one-gigabit-broadband-subscriber/ Sent from my Verizon 4G LTE Smartphone
Re: [AFMUG] The latest gig city
> other than price and service from said company Aren't those kind of the defining characteristics? If you ignore price and service, isn't one ISP pretty much like the other? At least very few consumers could tell the difference. Jared
Re: [AFMUG] The latest gig city
It's sexy. Society tells them to. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions Midwest Internet Exchange The Brothers WISP - Original Message - From: "CBB - Jay Fuller" To: af@afmug.com Sent: Thursday, September 15, 2016 10:01:49 AM Subject: Re: [AFMUG] The latest gig city got into it with the significant other last night when discussing this article. she makes a good point. other than price and service from said company, why would someone switch to fiber when they already have equivalent working service from the cable co? especially if their tv is already with the cable co. (i hate cable cos, but just saying) especially taking into account that people dislike change. people want fiber cause they think they'll get gig speeds for what they're paying the cable co now. do they not? - Original Message - From: fiber...@mail.com To: af@afmug.com Sent: Thursday, September 15, 2016 6:37 AM Subject: Re: [AFMUG] The latest gig city > One subscriber at the gig level > > http://spectator.org/alabamas-gig-city-has-one-gigabit-broadband-subscriber/ Clickbait. I really hate poorly written articles like these. There are plenty of reasons for and against municipal broadband. If you have a beef with muni broadband, at least put some effort in it and come up with some valid critique. Don't just produce blogspam like this. I guess it just isn't sexy to report that they have a take rate of about 25% and are on track to be profitable within five years. Focusing on the number of gigabit subscribers at $500 per month, when there's a reasonable offering of services between $35 and $100 per month, just makes the reporter seem petty. It's almost like they have an agenda to push, facts be damned, ... Jared
Re: [AFMUG] The latest gig city
I agree with that. Their pricing is what is killing their deal. If you have the fiber and the equipment to handle it, it makes no business sense to me to over-price the service. Google I think is around $50 for 100Mbps and $70 for 1Gbps. At least that is what I sell mine for, and Cable customers switch from their $90 plan to our $70 plan all the time. From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of CBB - Jay Fuller Sent: Thursday, September 15, 2016 9:02 AM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] The latest gig city got into it with the significant other last night when discussing this article. she makes a good point. other than price and service from said company, why would someone switch to fiber when they already have equivalent working service from the cable co? especially if their tv is already with the cable co. (i hate cable cos, but just saying) especially taking into account that people dislike change. people want fiber cause they think they'll get gig speeds for what they're paying the cable co now. do they not? - Original Message - From: fiber...@mail.com<mailto:fiber...@mail.com> To: af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com> Sent: Thursday, September 15, 2016 6:37 AM Subject: Re: [AFMUG] The latest gig city > One subscriber at the gig level > > http://spectator.org/alabamas-gig-city-has-one-gigabit-broadband-subscriber/ Clickbait. I really hate poorly written articles like these. There are plenty of reasons for and against municipal broadband. If you have a beef with muni broadband, at least put some effort in it and come up with some valid critique. Don't just produce blogspam like this. I guess it just isn't sexy to report that they have a take rate of about 25% and are on track to be profitable within five years. Focusing on the number of gigabit subscribers at $500 per month, when there's a reasonable offering of services between $35 and $100 per month, just makes the reporter seem petty. It's almost like they have an agenda to push, facts be damned, ... Jared
Re: [AFMUG] The latest gig city
got into it with the significant other last night when discussing this article. she makes a good point. other than price and service from said company, why would someone switch to fiber when they already have equivalent working service from the cable co? especially if their tv is already with the cable co. (i hate cable cos, but just saying) especially taking into account that people dislike change. people want fiber cause they think they'll get gig speeds for what they're paying the cable co now. do they not? - Original Message - From: fiber...@mail.com To: af@afmug.com Sent: Thursday, September 15, 2016 6:37 AM Subject: Re: [AFMUG] The latest gig city > One subscriber at the gig level > > http://spectator.org/alabamas-gig-city-has-one-gigabit-broadband-subscriber/ Clickbait. I really hate poorly written articles like these. There are plenty of reasons for and against municipal broadband. If you have a beef with muni broadband, at least put some effort in it and come up with some valid critique. Don't just produce blogspam like this. I guess it just isn't sexy to report that they have a take rate of about 25% and are on track to be profitable within five years. Focusing on the number of gigabit subscribers at $500 per month, when there's a reasonable offering of services between $35 and $100 per month, just makes the reporter seem petty. It's almost like they have an agenda to push, facts be damned, ... Jared
Re: [AFMUG] The latest gig city
> One subscriber at the gig level > > http://spectator.org/alabamas-gig-city-has-one-gigabit-broadband-subscriber/ Clickbait. I really hate poorly written articles like these. There are plenty of reasons for and against municipal broadband. If you have a beef with muni broadband, at least put some effort in it and come up with some valid critique. Don't just produce blogspam like this. I guess it just isn't sexy to report that they have a take rate of about 25% and are on track to be profitable within five years. Focusing on the number of gigabit subscribers at $500 per month, when there's a reasonable offering of services between $35 and $100 per month, just makes the reporter seem petty. It's almost like they have an agenda to push, facts be damned, ... Jared
Re: [AFMUG] The latest gig city
Just had a serious debate with a significant other over that very topic... Sent from my Verizon 4G LTE Smartphone - Reply message - From: "Ken Hohhof" To: Subject: [AFMUG] The latest gig city Date: Thu, Sep 15, 2016 12:12 AM Interesting. Of course, one way to read the numbers is they could “upgrade” all the 110/50 customers to 1000/1000 and the only change would be $400 less revenue per month, and probably no more bandwidth usage. This is probably the marketing approach of most gigabit ISPs. If some killer app comes out that actually uses gigabit speeds, their bluff is called. From: CBB - Jay Fuller Sent: Wednesday, September 14, 2016 11:40 PM To: af@afmug.com Subject: [AFMUG] The latest gig city One subscriber at the gig level http://spectator.org/alabamas-gig-city-has-one-gigabit-broadband-subscriber/ Sent from my Verizon 4G LTE Smartphone
Re: [AFMUG] The latest gig city
HahNo My dad has played golf with them tho Hopefully they call it light...not lite Good numbers for reference tho. Their size is similar to ours (in terms of city size) Sent from my Verizon 4G LTE Smartphone - Reply message - From: "George Skorup" To: Subject: [AFMUG] The latest gig city Date: Thu, Sep 15, 2016 12:11 AM Um.. you're, like, not related to the mayor, right? "Opelika Mayor Gary Fuller told..." And calling a service "Lite" is stupid. On 9/14/2016 11:40 PM, CBB - Jay Fuller wrote: One subscriber at the gig level http://spectator.org/alabamas-gig-city-has-one-gigabit-broadband-subscriber/ Sent from my Verizon 4G LTE Smartphone
Re: [AFMUG] The latest gig city
Interesting. Of course, one way to read the numbers is they could “upgrade” all the 110/50 customers to 1000/1000 and the only change would be $400 less revenue per month, and probably no more bandwidth usage. This is probably the marketing approach of most gigabit ISPs. If some killer app comes out that actually uses gigabit speeds, their bluff is called. From: CBB - Jay Fuller Sent: Wednesday, September 14, 2016 11:40 PM To: af@afmug.com Subject: [AFMUG] The latest gig city One subscriber at the gig level http://spectator.org/alabamas-gig-city-has-one-gigabit-broadband-subscriber/ Sent from my Verizon 4G LTE Smartphone
Re: [AFMUG] The latest gig city
Um.. you're, like, not related to the mayor, right? "Opelika Mayor Gary Fuller told..." And calling a service "Lite" is stupid. On 9/14/2016 11:40 PM, CBB - Jay Fuller wrote: One subscriber at the gig level http://spectator.org/alabamas-gig-city-has-one-gigabit-broadband-subscriber/ Sent from my Verizon 4G LTE Smartphone
[AFMUG] The latest gig city
One subscriber at the gig level http://spectator.org/alabamas-gig-city-has-one-gigabit-broadband-subscriber/ Sent from my Verizon 4G LTE Smartphone
