Re: [AFMUG] licensing for bigger antennas than installed in 11ghz

[Steve Jones]

Im not doing storms tonitr, dealt with issues from last night, you keep
that shit up there.
Mast size and weight are what will be the biggest issue hardwarewise,
adding that weight and windload kills the load capacity on our current
setup.
I think we are just going to stick with the 2 footers for now, neitheir
link is over 6 miles and our saf 5 mile link never faded to degredation on
two footers, granted these will be bigger channels and 3x the capacity, so
we may see and occasional throughput drop

On Jul 19, 2017 7:07 PM, "George Skorup" <george.sko...@cbcast.com> wrote:

> If you're changing antennas, then you should be doing coordination again.
> Or height, frequency, channel width, etc. I tell Liz what we want. If she
> says we can do it, I just change stuff when she says to. She logs into ULS
> and does her stuff.
>
> Radiowaves HP3's really aren't that large. The bigger problem with them is
> needing a 3.5" OD pipe absolute minimum. 4.5" OD is more betterer, but
> that's some heavy ass shit.
>
> The heavy rain bands we get round here, 4' dishes on both ends won't make
> much difference. Tonight looks like it will be fun with the shitstorm
> coming out of MN and WI.
>
> On 7/19/2017 3:10 PM, Steve Jones wrote:
>
> what does it cost to submit a correction on a link? say we register 2' and
> go up to 3, or vise versa?
>
> On Wed, Jul 19, 2017 at 2:58 PM, Steve Jones <thatoneguyst...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> does mimosa have max EIRP and antenna gain setting, assuming it has atpc,
>> I love atpc
>>
>> On Wed, Jul 19, 2017 at 2:53 PM, Chuck McCown <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Turn it down until you are.  You still have the benefit of more RX gain
>>> on both ends.
>>>
>>> *From:* Steve Jones
>>> *Sent:* Wednesday, July 19, 2017 1:52 PM
>>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] licensing for bigger antennas than installed in
>>> 11ghz
>>>
>>> that's what I figured. I assume putting in a bigger antenna than is
>>> licensed benefits in terms of pattern but then I'm no longer legal on EIRP?
>>>
>>> On Wed, Jul 19, 2017 at 2:49 PM, Colin Stanners <cstann...@gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Considering their goal of reducing interference through more
>>>> directional antennas, I'm sure that installing a different antenna than
>>>> licensed, especially a smaller one, is a big no.
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, Jul 19, 2017 at 2:33 PM, Steve Jones <thatoneguyst...@gmail.com
>>>> > wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> we have some links we are about to license, we can "get by" with 2'
>>>>> antennas, but one is right on that margin.
>>>>> we can do 2' all day long at all the sites involved, anything bigger
>>>>> and wed have to do some retrofits that will create some other issues, not 
>>>>> a
>>>>> huge deal, just prefer to not have to deal with the repercussions
>>>>> we would like to have some troubleshooting flexibility down the road.
>>>>> maybe a 4 and a 2 or 2 3s, just depending on how the actual path performs
>>>>> over time
>>>>> so can we do that, license them all with 3 or 4' and install 2' today?
>>>>> I'm thinking no because of the antenna patterns on the PCNs not being
>>>>> as narrow with the smaller antenna, but id like to hear its totally doable
>>>>> with fcc blessing and they'll even send a guy with a rope to pull them up
>>>>> for us
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] licensing for bigger antennas than installed in 11ghz

[George Skorup]

If you're changing antennas, then you should be doing coordination 
again. Or height, frequency, channel width, etc. I tell Liz what we 
want. If she says we can do it, I just change stuff when she says to. 
She logs into ULS and does her stuff.


Radiowaves HP3's really aren't that large. The bigger problem with them 
is needing a 3.5" OD pipe absolute minimum. 4.5" OD is more betterer, 
but that's some heavy ass shit.


The heavy rain bands we get round here, 4' dishes on both ends won't 
make much difference. Tonight looks like it will be fun with the 
shitstorm coming out of MN and WI.


On 7/19/2017 3:10 PM, Steve Jones wrote:
what does it cost to submit a correction on a link? say we register 2' 
and go up to 3, or vise versa?


On Wed, Jul 19, 2017 at 2:58 PM, Steve Jones 
<thatoneguyst...@gmail.com <mailto:thatoneguyst...@gmail.com>> wrote:


does mimosa have max EIRP and antenna gain setting, assuming it
has atpc, I love atpc

On Wed, Jul 19, 2017 at 2:53 PM, Chuck McCown <ch...@wbmfg.com
<mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com>> wrote:

Turn it down until you are.  You still have the benefit of
more RX gain on both ends.
*From:* Steve Jones
*Sent:* Wednesday, July 19, 2017 1:52 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com
    *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] licensing for bigger antennas than
installed in 11ghz
that's what I figured. I assume putting in a bigger antenna
than is licensed benefits in terms of pattern but then I'm no
longer legal on EIRP?
On Wed, Jul 19, 2017 at 2:49 PM, Colin Stanners
<cstann...@gmail.com> wrote:

Considering their goal of reducing interference through
more directional antennas, I'm sure that installing a
different antenna than licensed, especially a smaller one,
is a big no.
On Wed, Jul 19, 2017 at 2:33 PM, Steve Jones
<thatoneguyst...@gmail.com> wrote:

we have some links we are about to license, we can
"get by" with 2' antennas, but one is right on that
margin.
we can do 2' all day long at all the sites involved,
anything bigger and wed have to do some retrofits that
will create some other issues, not a huge deal, just
prefer to not have to deal with the repercussions
we would like to have some troubleshooting flexibility
down the road. maybe a 4 and a 2 or 2 3s, just
depending on how the actual path performs over time
so can we do that, license them all with 3 or 4' and
install 2' today?
I'm thinking no because of the antenna patterns on the
PCNs not being as narrow with the smaller antenna, but
id like to hear its totally doable with fcc blessing
and they'll even send a guy with a rope to pull them
up for us

Re: [AFMUG] licensing for bigger antennas than installed in 11ghz

[Jeremy]

I believe it is $295

On Wed, Jul 19, 2017 at 2:10 PM, Steve Jones <thatoneguyst...@gmail.com>
wrote:

> what does it cost to submit a correction on a link? say we register 2' and
> go up to 3, or vise versa?
>
> On Wed, Jul 19, 2017 at 2:58 PM, Steve Jones <thatoneguyst...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> does mimosa have max EIRP and antenna gain setting, assuming it has atpc,
>> I love atpc
>>
>> On Wed, Jul 19, 2017 at 2:53 PM, Chuck McCown <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Turn it down until you are.  You still have the benefit of more RX gain
>>> on both ends.
>>>
>>> *From:* Steve Jones
>>> *Sent:* Wednesday, July 19, 2017 1:52 PM
>>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] licensing for bigger antennas than installed in
>>> 11ghz
>>>
>>> that's what I figured. I assume putting in a bigger antenna than is
>>> licensed benefits in terms of pattern but then I'm no longer legal on EIRP?
>>>
>>> On Wed, Jul 19, 2017 at 2:49 PM, Colin Stanners <cstann...@gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Considering their goal of reducing interference through more
>>>> directional antennas, I'm sure that installing a different antenna than
>>>> licensed, especially a smaller one, is a big no.
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, Jul 19, 2017 at 2:33 PM, Steve Jones <thatoneguyst...@gmail.com
>>>> > wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> we have some links we are about to license, we can "get by" with 2'
>>>>> antennas, but one is right on that margin.
>>>>> we can do 2' all day long at all the sites involved, anything bigger
>>>>> and wed have to do some retrofits that will create some other issues, not 
>>>>> a
>>>>> huge deal, just prefer to not have to deal with the repercussions
>>>>> we would like to have some troubleshooting flexibility down the road.
>>>>> maybe a 4 and a 2 or 2 3s, just depending on how the actual path performs
>>>>> over time
>>>>> so can we do that, license them all with 3 or 4' and install 2' today?
>>>>> I'm thinking no because of the antenna patterns on the PCNs not being
>>>>> as narrow with the smaller antenna, but id like to hear its totally doable
>>>>> with fcc blessing and they'll even send a guy with a rope to pull them up
>>>>> for us
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>

Re: [AFMUG] licensing for bigger antennas than installed in 11ghz

[Steve Jones]

what does it cost to submit a correction on a link? say we register 2' and
go up to 3, or vise versa?

On Wed, Jul 19, 2017 at 2:58 PM, Steve Jones <thatoneguyst...@gmail.com>
wrote:

> does mimosa have max EIRP and antenna gain setting, assuming it has atpc,
> I love atpc
>
> On Wed, Jul 19, 2017 at 2:53 PM, Chuck McCown <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote:
>
>> Turn it down until you are.  You still have the benefit of more RX gain
>> on both ends.
>>
>> *From:* Steve Jones
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, July 19, 2017 1:52 PM
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] licensing for bigger antennas than installed in
>> 11ghz
>>
>> that's what I figured. I assume putting in a bigger antenna than is
>> licensed benefits in terms of pattern but then I'm no longer legal on EIRP?
>>
>> On Wed, Jul 19, 2017 at 2:49 PM, Colin Stanners <cstann...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Considering their goal of reducing interference through more directional
>>> antennas, I'm sure that installing a different antenna than licensed,
>>> especially a smaller one, is a big no.
>>>
>>> On Wed, Jul 19, 2017 at 2:33 PM, Steve Jones <thatoneguyst...@gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> we have some links we are about to license, we can "get by" with 2'
>>>> antennas, but one is right on that margin.
>>>> we can do 2' all day long at all the sites involved, anything bigger
>>>> and wed have to do some retrofits that will create some other issues, not a
>>>> huge deal, just prefer to not have to deal with the repercussions
>>>> we would like to have some troubleshooting flexibility down the road.
>>>> maybe a 4 and a 2 or 2 3s, just depending on how the actual path performs
>>>> over time
>>>> so can we do that, license them all with 3 or 4' and install 2' today?
>>>> I'm thinking no because of the antenna patterns on the PCNs not being
>>>> as narrow with the smaller antenna, but id like to hear its totally doable
>>>> with fcc blessing and they'll even send a guy with a rope to pull them up
>>>> for us
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] licensing for bigger antennas than installed in 11ghz

[Jeremy]

Technically, you have to file a modification.  I believe you will have 18
months to then install that modification.  It would need to be licensed
with the 2' and then modified to the 3 or 4, then installed within the
allowable window.

On Wed, Jul 19, 2017 at 1:58 PM, Steve Jones <thatoneguyst...@gmail.com>
wrote:

> does mimosa have max EIRP and antenna gain setting, assuming it has atpc,
> I love atpc
>
> On Wed, Jul 19, 2017 at 2:53 PM, Chuck McCown <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote:
>
>> Turn it down until you are.  You still have the benefit of more RX gain
>> on both ends.
>>
>> *From:* Steve Jones
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, July 19, 2017 1:52 PM
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] licensing for bigger antennas than installed in
>> 11ghz
>>
>> that's what I figured. I assume putting in a bigger antenna than is
>> licensed benefits in terms of pattern but then I'm no longer legal on EIRP?
>>
>> On Wed, Jul 19, 2017 at 2:49 PM, Colin Stanners <cstann...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Considering their goal of reducing interference through more directional
>>> antennas, I'm sure that installing a different antenna than licensed,
>>> especially a smaller one, is a big no.
>>>
>>> On Wed, Jul 19, 2017 at 2:33 PM, Steve Jones <thatoneguyst...@gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> we have some links we are about to license, we can "get by" with 2'
>>>> antennas, but one is right on that margin.
>>>> we can do 2' all day long at all the sites involved, anything bigger
>>>> and wed have to do some retrofits that will create some other issues, not a
>>>> huge deal, just prefer to not have to deal with the repercussions
>>>> we would like to have some troubleshooting flexibility down the road.
>>>> maybe a 4 and a 2 or 2 3s, just depending on how the actual path performs
>>>> over time
>>>> so can we do that, license them all with 3 or 4' and install 2' today?
>>>> I'm thinking no because of the antenna patterns on the PCNs not being
>>>> as narrow with the smaller antenna, but id like to hear its totally doable
>>>> with fcc blessing and they'll even send a guy with a rope to pull them up
>>>> for us
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] licensing for bigger antennas than installed in 11ghz

[Steve Jones]

does mimosa have max EIRP and antenna gain setting, assuming it has atpc, I
love atpc

On Wed, Jul 19, 2017 at 2:53 PM, Chuck McCown <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote:

> Turn it down until you are.  You still have the benefit of more RX gain on
> both ends.
>
> *From:* Steve Jones
> *Sent:* Wednesday, July 19, 2017 1:52 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] licensing for bigger antennas than installed in
> 11ghz
>
> that's what I figured. I assume putting in a bigger antenna than is
> licensed benefits in terms of pattern but then I'm no longer legal on EIRP?
>
> On Wed, Jul 19, 2017 at 2:49 PM, Colin Stanners <cstann...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Considering their goal of reducing interference through more directional
>> antennas, I'm sure that installing a different antenna than licensed,
>> especially a smaller one, is a big no.
>>
>> On Wed, Jul 19, 2017 at 2:33 PM, Steve Jones <thatoneguyst...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> we have some links we are about to license, we can "get by" with 2'
>>> antennas, but one is right on that margin.
>>> we can do 2' all day long at all the sites involved, anything bigger and
>>> wed have to do some retrofits that will create some other issues, not a
>>> huge deal, just prefer to not have to deal with the repercussions
>>> we would like to have some troubleshooting flexibility down the road.
>>> maybe a 4 and a 2 or 2 3s, just depending on how the actual path performs
>>> over time
>>> so can we do that, license them all with 3 or 4' and install 2' today?
>>> I'm thinking no because of the antenna patterns on the PCNs not being as
>>> narrow with the smaller antenna, but id like to hear its totally doable
>>> with fcc blessing and they'll even send a guy with a rope to pull them up
>>> for us
>>>
>>
>>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] licensing for bigger antennas than installed in 11ghz

[Chuck McCown]

Turn it down until you are.  You still have the benefit of more RX gain on both 
ends.  

From: Steve Jones 
Sent: Wednesday, July 19, 2017 1:52 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] licensing for bigger antennas than installed in 11ghz

that's what I figured. I assume putting in a bigger antenna than is licensed 
benefits in terms of pattern but then I'm no longer legal on EIRP?

On Wed, Jul 19, 2017 at 2:49 PM, Colin Stanners <cstann...@gmail.com> wrote:

  Considering their goal of reducing interference through more directional 
antennas, I'm sure that installing a different antenna than licensed, 
especially a smaller one, is a big no.


  On Wed, Jul 19, 2017 at 2:33 PM, Steve Jones <thatoneguyst...@gmail.com> 
wrote:

we have some links we are about to license, we can "get by" with 2' 
antennas, but one is right on that margin.
we can do 2' all day long at all the sites involved, anything bigger and 
wed have to do some retrofits that will create some other issues, not a huge 
deal, just prefer to not have to deal with the repercussions
we would like to have some troubleshooting flexibility down the road. maybe 
a 4 and a 2 or 2 3s, just depending on how the actual path performs over time
so can we do that, license them all with 3 or 4' and install 2' today?
I'm thinking no because of the antenna patterns on the PCNs not being as 
narrow with the smaller antenna, but id like to hear its totally doable with 
fcc blessing and they'll even send a guy with a rope to pull them up for us

Re: [AFMUG] licensing for bigger antennas than installed in 11ghz

[Chuck McCown]

I am guessing you would be safe in going up in antenna gain as long as the EIRP 
did not exceed the licensed level.  While it may not technically be perfectly 
legally kosher, it would be within the spirit of the law if not the letter.  

From: Colin Stanners 
Sent: Wednesday, July 19, 2017 1:49 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] licensing for bigger antennas than installed in 11ghz

Considering their goal of reducing interference through more directional 
antennas, I'm sure that installing a different antenna than licensed, 
especially a smaller one, is a big no.


On Wed, Jul 19, 2017 at 2:33 PM, Steve Jones <thatoneguyst...@gmail.com> wrote:

  we have some links we are about to license, we can "get by" with 2' antennas, 
but one is right on that margin.
  we can do 2' all day long at all the sites involved, anything bigger and wed 
have to do some retrofits that will create some other issues, not a huge deal, 
just prefer to not have to deal with the repercussions
  we would like to have some troubleshooting flexibility down the road. maybe a 
4 and a 2 or 2 3s, just depending on how the actual path performs over time
  so can we do that, license them all with 3 or 4' and install 2' today?
  I'm thinking no because of the antenna patterns on the PCNs not being as 
narrow with the smaller antenna, but id like to hear its totally doable with 
fcc blessing and they'll even send a guy with a rope to pull them up for us

Re: [AFMUG] licensing for bigger antennas than installed in 11ghz

[Steve Jones]

that's what I figured. I assume putting in a bigger antenna than is
licensed benefits in terms of pattern but then I'm no longer legal on EIRP?

On Wed, Jul 19, 2017 at 2:49 PM, Colin Stanners  wrote:

> Considering their goal of reducing interference through more directional
> antennas, I'm sure that installing a different antenna than licensed,
> especially a smaller one, is a big no.
>
> On Wed, Jul 19, 2017 at 2:33 PM, Steve Jones 
> wrote:
>
>> we have some links we are about to license, we can "get by" with 2'
>> antennas, but one is right on that margin.
>> we can do 2' all day long at all the sites involved, anything bigger and
>> wed have to do some retrofits that will create some other issues, not a
>> huge deal, just prefer to not have to deal with the repercussions
>> we would like to have some troubleshooting flexibility down the road.
>> maybe a 4 and a 2 or 2 3s, just depending on how the actual path performs
>> over time
>> so can we do that, license them all with 3 or 4' and install 2' today?
>> I'm thinking no because of the antenna patterns on the PCNs not being as
>> narrow with the smaller antenna, but id like to hear its totally doable
>> with fcc blessing and they'll even send a guy with a rope to pull them up
>> for us
>>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] licensing for bigger antennas than installed in 11ghz

[Colin Stanners]

Considering their goal of reducing interference through more directional
antennas, I'm sure that installing a different antenna than licensed,
especially a smaller one, is a big no.

On Wed, Jul 19, 2017 at 2:33 PM, Steve Jones 
wrote:

> we have some links we are about to license, we can "get by" with 2'
> antennas, but one is right on that margin.
> we can do 2' all day long at all the sites involved, anything bigger and
> wed have to do some retrofits that will create some other issues, not a
> huge deal, just prefer to not have to deal with the repercussions
> we would like to have some troubleshooting flexibility down the road.
> maybe a 4 and a 2 or 2 3s, just depending on how the actual path performs
> over time
> so can we do that, license them all with 3 or 4' and install 2' today?
> I'm thinking no because of the antenna patterns on the PCNs not being as
> narrow with the smaller antenna, but id like to hear its totally doable
> with fcc blessing and they'll even send a guy with a rope to pull them up
> for us
>