Re: [agi] Re: I completely hate today's mainstream AI (Google etc.)

[John Rose]

On Monday, October 28, 2019, at 9:10 AM, doddy wrote:
> did anyone study
> google plaNet.

In Python, link:   https://danijar.com/project/planet/
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Re: [agi] Re: Missing Data

[Stefan Reich via AGI]

> The universe doesn't need to begin as a long movie with all frames
already made. It just has to let physics roll out on its own.

There is more to the universe than physics though. There truly is.

> Lossless compression is ALREADY lossy compression, because after
compression, the data is missing, until you decompress it.

That's super quotable. I'm still laughing

On Mon, 28 Oct 2019 at 23:17,  wrote:

> The universe doesn't need to begin as a long movie with all frames already
> made. It just has to let physics roll out on its own. We can test this in a
> computer simulation. The universe generates the "missing data". The
> universe starts off lossy, but by the end, it's lossless and has ALL data
> in a file. Or brain. So while it seems like a lossy file cannot become
> lossless, it can. Lossy kicks lossless in the butt. And we can simulate
> this on a future computer. Self-regeneration works as the best compressor
> (Physics is). Re-use/ recognition/ patterns/ superposition is everywhere in
> the universe, things pull together and fill in missing data e.g. dead
> employees. "Understanding"/ "recognizing" allows filling in missing data
> using other related data.
>
> Lossless compression is ALREADY lossy compression, because after
> compression, the data is missing, until you decompress it. As for "Lossy
> compression", it may result in words missing, however a human can add them
> back, so even Lossy compression results in the data back. See, same result.
> It auto-regenerates.
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Re: [agi] Re: Missing Data

[John Rose]

On Tuesday, October 29, 2019, at 5:51 AM, Stefan Reich wrote:
> > Lossless compression is ALREADY lossy compression, because after 
> >compression, the data is missing, until you decompress it.
> 
> That's super quotable. I'm still laughing

It's funny but at the same time I do believe analyzing the lossy/lossless 
topology of compressors with data from various perspectives is important. My 
quote from another perspective in another thread:

"lossy can be lossless but lossless can only be lossy when lossy is lossless..."

was met with ridicule but it has a deeper meaning where there is at least one 
mathematical singularity in the universe of compressors where lossless is lossy 
but much overlap inversely. If one can imagine two spheres one lossy and the 
other lossless forming a capillary between them...
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Re: [agi] Re: putting models in your robots head

[doddy]

take a look at this depth camera.
depth sensing cameras can be used for in robots.
here is a link.
https://www.stereolabs.com/
zed
some of these have chemicals that cause cancer.
look for one does not.

On Mon, Oct 28, 2019 at 7:15 PM Alan Grimes via AGI 
wrote:

> doddy wrote:
> > take a look at this.
> >
> https://gigazine.net/gsc_news/en/20181206-nvidia-ai-rendered-virtual-world
> 
> This is getting ridiculous!
> 
> We are so absurdly close to AGI it's insane! I mean even I could
> probably hack that into general intelligence and it wouldn't take me
> very long either...
> 
> I'm going to need about $700k...
> 
> --
> Clowns feed off of funny money;
> Funny money comes from the FED
> so NO FED -> NO CLOWNS!!!
> 
> Powers are not rights.
> 

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Re: [agi] Re: putting models in your robots head

[rouncer81]

yeh thatll give you a head start,   but if u want to put the work in one web 
cam can do it by itself.
3d cameras make compositing so much easier, its almost a crime to have one! :)
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Re: [agi] Re: putting models in your robots head

[doddy]

take a look at this video.
https://www.stereolabs.com/blog/zed-powers-olympic-ski-robots/


On Tue, Oct 29, 2019 at 7:38 AM  wrote:

> yeh thatll give you a head start,   but if u want to put the work in one
> web cam can do it by itself.
> 3d cameras make compositing so much easier, its almost a crime to have
> one! :)
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Re: [agi] Re: putting models in your robots head

[rouncer81]

Thats actually not that impressive,   If I dont see the knees pumping its not 
the real thing.
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Re: [agi] Re: putting models in your robots head

[doddy]

you are saying that is fake.
it might be because that is the way the ski robots are designed.

On Tue, Oct 29, 2019 at 7:53 AM  wrote:

> Thats actually not that impressive,   If I dont see the knees pumping its
> not the real thing.
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Re: [agi] Re: putting models in your robots head

[rouncer81]

Its not fake,   its a good go,  but like you said the design isnt that 
impressive or ground breaking.
Boston Dynamics are nearly there with the parkour atlas video,  that... is 
decent, and a little disturbing.
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Re: [agi] Re: putting models in your robots head

[doddy]

have you seen this.they produced this too
https://www.voxel51.com/

On Tue, Oct 29, 2019 at 8:08 AM  wrote:

> Its not fake,   its a good go,  but like you said the design isnt that
> impressive or ground breaking.
> Boston Dynamics are nearly there with the parkour atlas video,  that... is
> decent, and a little disturbing.
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Re: [agi] Re: putting models in your robots head

[rouncer81]

computer vision totally wreaks havoc in the video editing room.  there should 
be more of this stuff out there.
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Re: [agi] Re: Missing Data

[Matt Mahoney]

So much nonsense...

Lossless compression is a function mapping strings to strings such that
each input maps to a different output and the expected length of the output
is less than the input, given some probability distribution.

Lossy compression allows collisions when the inputs have the same meaning.



On Tue, Oct 29, 2019, 6:11 AM John Rose  wrote:

> On Tuesday, October 29, 2019, at 5:51 AM, Stefan Reich wrote:
>
> > Lossless compression is ALREADY lossy compression, because after
> compression, the data is missing, until you decompress it.
>
> That's super quotable. I'm still laughing
>
>
> It's funny but at the same time I do believe analyzing the lossy/lossless
> topology of compressors with data from various perspectives is important.
> My quote from another perspective in another thread:
>
> "lossy can be lossless but lossless can only be lossy when lossy is
> lossless..."
>
> was met with ridicule but it has a deeper meaning where there is at least
> one mathematical singularity in the universe of compressors where lossless
> is lossy but much overlap inversely. If one can imagine two spheres one
> lossy and the other lossless forming a capillary between them...
> *Artificial General Intelligence List *
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Re: [agi] Re: putting models in your robots head

[doddy]

yeah you maybe right.

On Tue, Oct 29, 2019 at 8:55 AM  wrote:

> computer vision totally wreaks havoc in the video editing room.  there
> should be more of this stuff out there.
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Re: [agi] Re: Missing Data

[John Rose]

This is serious!

The two spheres, lossy and lossless, have a capillary bridge consisting of:
Lossylosslessness and Losslesslossyness

The universe of compressors and the universe of data, loss depends on the data 
AND compressor instance.

As an aside what do you call the equivalent of, in modelling it's called "Model 
Selection Criteria"
what is the "Compressor Selection Criteria"?
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Re: [agi] Re: Missing Data

[rouncer81]

lossless is the only decent way to compress,  because context hasnt been lost.
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Re: [agi] Re: Missing Data

[WriterOfMinds]

Lossylossless compression and losslesslossy compression may now join partial 
pregnancy, having and eating


one's cake, and the acre of land between the ocean and the shore in the 
category of Things that Don't Exist.

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Re: [agi] Re: Missing Data

[immortal . discoveries]

My last post above was completely written by GPT-2 lol.

No really, lossless compression gives you a file that is no longer your 
original file. Only after some sort of luck do we manage to get the same file 
back, same for if we did lossy compression.
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Re: [agi] Re: Missing Data

[immortal . discoveries]

1st attempt, not cherry picked
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Re: [agi] Re: Missing Data

[immortal . discoveries]

You could lose your lossless decompressor ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
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Re: [agi] Re: Missing Data

[rouncer81]

at least when someone reads all our posts theyll be so confused they wont 
gather anything! :)
we are getting pretty way out there now...
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Re: [agi] Re: Missing Data

[James Bowery]

I'm half tempted to take the text in the prior responses, compress it with
the current leader in Matt's Large Text Compression Benchmark and use the
resulting language model to generate 100 responses under various
sock-puppet accounts.  Unfortunately, it would require a lot more responses
to develop an adequately spurious language model and, equally
unfortunately, due to the lack of anything remotely resembling a rational
unified model of society (that could result from using lossless compression
as the model selection criterion), I have priorities with much greater
urgency, such as preparing for the quasi-religious wars resulting from
irrational social models.

On Tue, Oct 29, 2019 at 11:56 AM  wrote:

> at least when someone reads all our posts theyll be so confused they wont
> gather anything! :)
> we are getting pretty way out there now...
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Re: [agi] Re: putting models in your robots head

[immortal . discoveries]

On Tuesday, October 29, 2019, at 8:47 AM, doddy wrote:
> take a look at this video.
> https://www.stereolabs.com/blog/zed-powers-olympic-ski-robots/

I just had a crazy experience while surfing the internet:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FYII_rYpkSc&feature=youtu.be
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Re: [agi] Re: I completely hate today's mainstream AI (Google etc.)

[Mike Archbold]

What bothers me is when hot shot engineers (much younger than me) say
"our AI understands" .. but it's a shell game!  They don't define
"understand" and nobody knows really what it is or how it works.
Everybody uses their own definition.

On 10/29/19, John Rose  wrote:
> On Monday, October 28, 2019, at 9:10 AM, doddy wrote:
>> did anyone study
>> google plaNet.
> 
> In Python, link:   https://danijar.com/project/planet/

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Re: [agi] Re: I completely hate today's mainstream AI (Google etc.)

[rouncer81]

yeh they should say its the product of a search in a model,  its not actually 
understanding.
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Re: [agi] Re: putting models in your robots head

[rouncer81]

nothing happened?
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Re: [agi] Re: putting models in your robots head

[immortal . discoveries]

had that music blasting and was creepy
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Re: [agi] Re: I completely hate today's mainstream AI (Google etc.)

[Mike Archbold]

Really in order to "understand" in a fashion analogous to humans, the
AI needs more or less fullblown common sense, the always elusive
defect.

Unless their AI has common sense baked in, they shouldn't say
"understand" unless they qualify it with what they define "understand"
as.

Otherwise -- they are trying to smoke you.

On 10/29/19, rounce...@hotmail.com  wrote:
> yeh they should say its the product of a search in a model,  its not
> actually understanding.

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Re: [agi] Re: Missing Data

[immortal . discoveries]

Let me formalize my proposal.

If we apply Lossless Compression on a text file that contains the string 
"2+2=4", it results in missing data because the new data is smaller in size 
(because of compression). Physics results in the data de-compressing back and 
we have our original lossless data back.

If we apply Lossy Compression on a text file that contains the string "2+2=4", 
it results in missing data because the new data is smaller in size (because of 
compression). Physics results in the data de-compressing back and we almost 
have our original lossless data back. Say our data is now "2+2=". A human could 
easily walk by and say, hey, 4! Suddenly we have our original lossless data 
back "2+2=4".

Therefore lossy=lossless. Self-Regeneration is unavoidable. Earth could end 
tomorrow but we'd still get the end result anyhow, the fully optimized planet 
ASI.
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Re: [agi] Re: putting models in your robots head

[doddy]

you posted the video on youtube today.

On Tue, Oct 29, 2019 at 12:42 PM  wrote:

> had that music blasting and was creepy
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