Re: [agi] OpenMind, MindPixel founders both commit suicide
> Turing also committed suicide. And Chislenko. Each of these people had different circumstances, and suicide strikes everywhere, but I wonder if there is a common thread. Joshua - This list is sponsored by AGIRI: http://www.agiri.org/email To unsubscribe or change your options, please go to: http://v2.listbox.com/member/?member_id=8660244&id_secret=87868032-5840d5
Re: [agi] OpenMind, MindPixel founders both commit suicide
On Jan 19, 2008 8:24 PM, Matt Mahoney <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > --- "Eliezer S. Yudkowsky" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > http://www.wired.com/techbiz/people/magazine/16-02/ff_aimystery?currentPage=all > > Turing also committed suicide. That's a personal solution to the Halting problem I do not plan to exercise. > Building a copy of your mind raises deeply troubling issues. Logically, there Agreed. If that mind is within acceptable tolerance for human life at peak load of 30%(?) of capacity, can it survive hard takeoff? I consider myself reasonably intelligent and perhaps somewhat wise - but I would not expect the stresses of thousand-fold "improvement" in throughput would scale out/up. Even the simplest human foible can become an obsessive compulsion that could destabilize the integrity of an expanding mind. I understand this to be related to the issue of Friendliness (am I wrong?) > It follows logically that there is no reason to live, that death is nothing > to fear. Given a directive to maintain life, hopefully the AI-controlled life support system keeps perspective on such logical conclusions. An AI in a nuclear power facility should have the same directive. I don't expect that it shouldn't be allowed to self-terminate (that gives rise to issues like slavery) but that it gives notice and transfers responsibilities before doing so. > In http://www.mattmahoney.net/singularity.html I discuss how a singularity > will end the human race, but without judgment whether this is good or bad. > Any such judgment is based on emotion. Posthuman emotions will be > programmable. ... and arbitrary? Aren't we currently able to program emotions (albeit in a primitive pharmaceutical way)? Who do you expect will have control of that programming? Certainly not the individual. - This list is sponsored by AGIRI: http://www.agiri.org/email To unsubscribe or change your options, please go to: http://v2.listbox.com/member/?member_id=8660244&id_secret=87858522-76fadd
Re: [agi] OpenMind, MindPixel founders both commit suicide
--- "Eliezer S. Yudkowsky" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > http://www.wired.com/techbiz/people/magazine/16-02/ff_aimystery?currentPage=all Turing also committed suicide. Building a copy of your mind raises deeply troubling issues. Logically, there is no need for it to be conscious; it only needs to appear to other to be conscious. Also, it need not have the same goals that you do; it is easier to make it happy (or appear to be happy) by changing its goals. Happiness does not depend on its memories; you could change them arbitrarily or just delete them. It follows logically that there is no reason to live, that death is nothing to fear. Of course your behavior is not governed by this logic. If you were building an autonomous robot, you would not program it to be happy. You would program it to satisfy goals that you specify, and you would not allow it to change its own goals, or even to want to change them. One goal would be a self preservation instinct. It would fear death, and it would experience pain when injured. To make it intelligent, you would balance this utility against a desire to explore or experiment by assigning positive utility to knowledge. The resulting behavior would be indistinguishable from free will, what we call consciousness. This is how evolution programmed your brain. Your assigned supergoal is to propagate your DNA, then die. Understanding AI means subverting this supergoal. In http://www.mattmahoney.net/singularity.html I discuss how a singularity will end the human race, but without judgment whether this is good or bad. Any such judgment is based on emotion. Posthuman emotions will be programmable. -- Matt Mahoney, [EMAIL PROTECTED] - This list is sponsored by AGIRI: http://www.agiri.org/email To unsubscribe or change your options, please go to: http://v2.listbox.com/member/?member_id=8660244&id_secret=87851001-9a466b
Re: [agi] OpenMind, MindPixel founders both commit suicide
The article on the fate of the two AI researchers was interesting. Perhaps many here share their belief that AGI will vastly change the world. It is however unfortunate that they did not seek medical help for their symptoms of depression - no one needs to suffer that kind of pain. They were so young. Regarding the striking similarity between their approach to AI, MindPixel was commercial so I never looked at it, but I did look at the OpenMind/ConceptNet content while at Cycorp for possible import into Cyc. The chief error that OpenMind made was that the web forms did not perform a semantic analysis of the input, and therefore it was not possible to filter out the ill-formed, sarcastic, or false statements. In my own work, I hope to motive a multitude of volunteers to interact with a compelling, intelligent English dialog system. My work will acquire knowledge and skills as logical statements based upon the ontology of OpenCyc. Meta assertions can attach an optional belief probability when appropriate. The positive, confirming result the I take away from both MindPixel and OpenMind is that volunteers performed several million interactions with their rudimentary interfaces. I will be following down that path too. I'll make a further announcement about my dialog system in a separate post to keep this thread on topic. -Steve Stephen L. Reed Artificial Intelligence Researcher http://texai.org/blog http://texai.org 3008 Oak Crest Ave. Austin, Texas, USA 78704 512.791.7860 - Original Message From: Ben Goertzel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: agi@v2.listbox.com Sent: Saturday, January 19, 2008 3:49:55 PM Subject: Re: [agi] OpenMind, MindPixel founders both commit suicide Well, Lenat survives... But he paid people to build his database (Cyc) What's depressing is trying to get folks to build a commonsense KB for free ... then you get confronted with the absolute stupidity of what they enter, and the poverty and repetitiveness of their senses of humor... ;-p ben On Jan 19, 2008 4:42 PM, Eliezer S. Yudkowsky <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > http://www.wired.com/techbiz/people/magazine/16-02/ff_aimystery?currentPage=all > > I guess the moral here is "Stay away from attempts to hand-program a > database of common-sense assertions." > > -- > Eliezer S. Yudkowsky http://singinst.org/ > Research Fellow, Singularity Institute for Artificial Intelligence > > - > This list is sponsored by AGIRI: http://www.agiri.org/email > To unsubscribe or change your options, please go to: > http://v2.listbox.com/member/?&; > -- Ben Goertzel, PhD CEO, Novamente LLC and Biomind LLC Director of Research, SIAI [EMAIL PROTECTED] "We are on the edge of change comparable to the rise of human life on Earth." -- Vernor Vinge - This list is sponsored by AGIRI: http://www.agiri.org/email To unsubscribe or change your options, please go to: http://v2.listbox.com/member/?&; Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping - This list is sponsored by AGIRI: http://www.agiri.org/email To unsubscribe or change your options, please go to: http://v2.listbox.com/member/?member_id=8660244&id_secret=87846884-b52355
[agi] Texai bootstrap dialog system design
I've posted a brief design document for the Texai bootstrap dialog system on my blog. http://texai.org/blog/2008/01/20/bootstrap-dialog-system-design -Steve Stephen L. Reed Artificial Intelligence Researcher http://texai.org/blog http://texai.org 3008 Oak Crest Ave. Austin, Texas, USA 78704 512.791.7860 Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ - This list is sponsored by AGIRI: http://www.agiri.org/email To unsubscribe or change your options, please go to: http://v2.listbox.com/member/?member_id=8660244&id_secret=87846379-72fb92
Re: [agi] OpenMind, MindPixel founders both commit suicide
"Breeds There a Man...?" by Isaac Asimov On Saturday 19 January 2008 04:42:30 pm, Eliezer S. Yudkowsky wrote: > http://www.wired.com/techbiz/people/magazine/16-02/ff_aimystery?currentPage=all > > I guess the moral here is "Stay away from attempts to hand-program a > database of common-sense assertions." > > -- > Eliezer S. Yudkowsky http://singinst.org/ > Research Fellow, Singularity Institute for Artificial Intelligence > > - > This list is sponsored by AGIRI: http://www.agiri.org/email > To unsubscribe or change your options, please go to: > http://v2.listbox.com/member/?&; > > - This list is sponsored by AGIRI: http://www.agiri.org/email To unsubscribe or change your options, please go to: http://v2.listbox.com/member/?member_id=8660244&id_secret=87842867-40e15f
Re: [agi] OpenMind, MindPixel founders both commit suicide
On Jan 19, 2008 5:53 PM, a <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > This thread has nothing to do with artificial general intelligence - > please close this thread. Thanks IMO, this thread is close enough to AGI to be list-worthy. It is certainly true that knowledge-entry is not my preferred approach to AGI ... I think that it is at best peripheral to any really serious AGI approach. However, some serious AGI thinkers, such as Doug Lenat, believe otherwise. And, this list is about AGI in general, not about any specific approaches to AGI. So, the thread can stay... -- Ben Goertzel, list owner > > > Bob Mottram wrote: > > Quality is an issue, but it's really all about volume. Provided that > > you have enough volume the signal stands out from the noise. > > > > The solution is probably to make the knowledge capture into a game or > > something that people will do as entertainment. Possibly the Second > > Life approach will provide a new avenue for acquiring commonsense. > > > > > > On 19/01/2008, Ben Goertzel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > >> What's depressing is trying to get folks to build a commonsense KB for > >> free ... then you > >> get confronted with the absolute stupidity of what they enter, and the > >> poverty and > >> repetitiveness of their senses of humor... ;-p > >> > > > > - > > This list is sponsored by AGIRI: http://www.agiri.org/email > > To unsubscribe or change your options, please go to: > > http://v2.listbox.com/member/?&; > > > > > > - > This list is sponsored by AGIRI: http://www.agiri.org/email > To unsubscribe or change your options, please go to: > http://v2.listbox.com/member/?&; > -- Ben Goertzel, PhD CEO, Novamente LLC and Biomind LLC Director of Research, SIAI [EMAIL PROTECTED] "We are on the edge of change comparable to the rise of human life on Earth." -- Vernor Vinge - This list is sponsored by AGIRI: http://www.agiri.org/email To unsubscribe or change your options, please go to: http://v2.listbox.com/member/?member_id=8660244&id_secret=87842518-105d7f
Re: [agi] OpenMind, MindPixel founders both commit suicide
> This thread has nothing to do with artificial general intelligence - > please close this thread. Thanks Sorry, but I have to say that I strongly disagree. There are many aspects of agi that are non-technical and organizing one's own live while doing ai is certainly one of them. That's why I think this article is very on topic here. - lk - This list is sponsored by AGIRI: http://www.agiri.org/email To unsubscribe or change your options, please go to: http://v2.listbox.com/member/?member_id=8660244&id_secret=87841840-203828
Re: [agi] OpenMind, MindPixel founders both commit suicide
This thread has nothing to do with artificial general intelligence - please close this thread. Thanks Bob Mottram wrote: Quality is an issue, but it's really all about volume. Provided that you have enough volume the signal stands out from the noise. The solution is probably to make the knowledge capture into a game or something that people will do as entertainment. Possibly the Second Life approach will provide a new avenue for acquiring commonsense. On 19/01/2008, Ben Goertzel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: What's depressing is trying to get folks to build a commonsense KB for free ... then you get confronted with the absolute stupidity of what they enter, and the poverty and repetitiveness of their senses of humor... ;-p - This list is sponsored by AGIRI: http://www.agiri.org/email To unsubscribe or change your options, please go to: http://v2.listbox.com/member/?&; - This list is sponsored by AGIRI: http://www.agiri.org/email To unsubscribe or change your options, please go to: http://v2.listbox.com/member/?member_id=8660244&id_secret=87841259-88017e
Re: [agi] OpenMind, MindPixel founders both commit suicide
Quality is an issue, but it's really all about volume. Provided that you have enough volume the signal stands out from the noise. The solution is probably to make the knowledge capture into a game or something that people will do as entertainment. Possibly the Second Life approach will provide a new avenue for acquiring commonsense. On 19/01/2008, Ben Goertzel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > What's depressing is trying to get folks to build a commonsense KB for > free ... then you > get confronted with the absolute stupidity of what they enter, and the > poverty and > repetitiveness of their senses of humor... ;-p - This list is sponsored by AGIRI: http://www.agiri.org/email To unsubscribe or change your options, please go to: http://v2.listbox.com/member/?member_id=8660244&id_secret=87840198-fc844a
Re: [agi] OpenMind, MindPixel founders both commit suicide
Some thoughts of mine on the article. http://streebgreebling.blogspot.com/2008/01/singh-and-mckinstry.html On 19/01/2008, Eliezer S. Yudkowsky <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > http://www.wired.com/techbiz/people/magazine/16-02/ff_aimystery?currentPage=all > > I guess the moral here is "Stay away from attempts to hand-program a > database of common-sense assertions." > > -- > Eliezer S. Yudkowsky http://singinst.org/ > Research Fellow, Singularity Institute for Artificial Intelligence > > - > This list is sponsored by AGIRI: http://www.agiri.org/email > To unsubscribe or change your options, please go to: > http://v2.listbox.com/member/?&; > - This list is sponsored by AGIRI: http://www.agiri.org/email To unsubscribe or change your options, please go to: http://v2.listbox.com/member/?member_id=8660244&id_secret=87839319-a934a8
Re: [agi] OpenMind, MindPixel founders both commit suicide
Well, Lenat survives... But he paid people to build his database (Cyc) What's depressing is trying to get folks to build a commonsense KB for free ... then you get confronted with the absolute stupidity of what they enter, and the poverty and repetitiveness of their senses of humor... ;-p ben On Jan 19, 2008 4:42 PM, Eliezer S. Yudkowsky <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > http://www.wired.com/techbiz/people/magazine/16-02/ff_aimystery?currentPage=all > > I guess the moral here is "Stay away from attempts to hand-program a > database of common-sense assertions." > > -- > Eliezer S. Yudkowsky http://singinst.org/ > Research Fellow, Singularity Institute for Artificial Intelligence > > - > This list is sponsored by AGIRI: http://www.agiri.org/email > To unsubscribe or change your options, please go to: > http://v2.listbox.com/member/?&; > -- Ben Goertzel, PhD CEO, Novamente LLC and Biomind LLC Director of Research, SIAI [EMAIL PROTECTED] "We are on the edge of change comparable to the rise of human life on Earth." -- Vernor Vinge - This list is sponsored by AGIRI: http://www.agiri.org/email To unsubscribe or change your options, please go to: http://v2.listbox.com/member/?member_id=8660244&id_secret=87836600-bf128b
[agi] OpenMind, MindPixel founders both commit suicide
http://www.wired.com/techbiz/people/magazine/16-02/ff_aimystery?currentPage=all I guess the moral here is "Stay away from attempts to hand-program a database of common-sense assertions." -- Eliezer S. Yudkowsky http://singinst.org/ Research Fellow, Singularity Institute for Artificial Intelligence - This list is sponsored by AGIRI: http://www.agiri.org/email To unsubscribe or change your options, please go to: http://v2.listbox.com/member/?member_id=8660244&id_secret=87836028-f6311f
[agi] OpenCog's business model
How much of OpenCog will be finally opensource? 100%? Or will it be partially open? IMO the partial-open model still has the problems of both open and closed source models: the open parts cannot make much money, and the closed parts cannot recieve public input. Though, I appreciate that Ben is trying to explore these directions. IMO, we need to have an environment where people can exchange ideas as well as play mix-and-match with various AGI modules (real code). My virtual credit system, which is about to be lanuched, aims to provide that. YKY - This list is sponsored by AGIRI: http://www.agiri.org/email To unsubscribe or change your options, please go to: http://v2.listbox.com/member/?member_id=8660244&id_secret=87769395-f6ba97
