Re: BUS: Re: DIS: Re: OFF: [Assessor] Resolution of Proposals 7908-7921
The decision was not initiated correctly, the initiation of the decision lacked a list of valid votes. On 10/15/2017 06:09 PM, Kerim Aydin wrote: On Mon, 16 Oct 2017, VJ Rada wrote: No it wasn't. The initiation of the Agoran Decision was illegal when it happened and it's illegal now. I don't mean it's NEWLY illegal. I messed up and made an illegal initiation at the time, which can be remedied within 7 days, a period we are still in. I now, to a-b, officially "identify" the lack of options noted in my initiation. The ELECTIONS were still initiated (one by G. and one by me) but the DECISIONS were not. I CFJ, using AP, on the following, barring VJ Rada: An Agoran Decision to determine the new Prime Minister was initiated on October 9. Arguments: By the rules of the time, the Decision was initiated correctly. Allowing retroactive setting of the truth without specifically stating that it happens (e.g. through ratification) is dangerous. Evidence: Send Mon Oct 9 03:18:27 UTC 2017 by V.J. Rada: I initiate an election for ADoP. I initiate the Agoran decisions for the determination of the new ADoP and Prime Minister. The quorum is 3.0, the vote collector is the ADoP (I will remain in office to count this, obviously). It's instant-runoff.
Re: BUS: Re: DIS: Re: OFF: [Assessor] Resolution of Proposals 7908-7921
I object.
This would take 2 weeks + 4 day objection period + pauses in between.
If instead you ratify that a decision started back when you said it
did (but with the new vote collector and all previous options as
present nominees), it could all be wrapped up this week.
On Mon, 16 Oct 2017, VJ Rada wrote:
> I intend to ratify the following without objection. It is wrong as
> there are or may be ongoing elections. I wish to ratify it to allow
> new elections for the positions of ADoP and PM
>
> {{There are no ongoing elections.}}
>
> On Mon, Oct 16, 2017 at 9:24 AM, Kerim Aydin wrote:
> >
> >
> > On Mon, 16 Oct 2017, VJ Rada wrote:
> >> I was waiting because I noticed days later and I hoped nobody else did.
> >>
> >> Fun fact: Only one of the Decisions I've initiated was ever valid.
> >> Obviously ratified now but I can't seem to get all four conditions
> >> lmao. Only one person (Alexis) ever noticed, and e didn't this time.
> >>
> >> I now have a "checklist" google doc I plan to consult, if ADoP again haha.
> >
> > Yah it's a huge pain in the rear I have a copy of the boilerplate from
> > the Promotor that I know is right and I'm paranoid about following word-
> > for-word (with appropriate substitutions) whenever I initiate one.
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
> --
> From V.J. Rada
>
Re: BUS: Re: DIS: Re: OFF: [Assessor] Resolution of Proposals 7908-7921
I intend to ratify the following without objection. It is wrong as
there are or may be ongoing elections. I wish to ratify it to allow
new elections for the positions of ADoP and PM
{{There are no ongoing elections.}}
On Mon, Oct 16, 2017 at 9:24 AM, Kerim Aydin wrote:
>
>
> On Mon, 16 Oct 2017, VJ Rada wrote:
>> I was waiting because I noticed days later and I hoped nobody else did.
>>
>> Fun fact: Only one of the Decisions I've initiated was ever valid.
>> Obviously ratified now but I can't seem to get all four conditions
>> lmao. Only one person (Alexis) ever noticed, and e didn't this time.
>>
>> I now have a "checklist" google doc I plan to consult, if ADoP again haha.
>
> Yah it's a huge pain in the rear I have a copy of the boilerplate from
> the Promotor that I know is right and I'm paranoid about following word-
> for-word (with appropriate substitutions) whenever I initiate one.
>
>
>
--
>From V.J. Rada
Re: BUS: Re: DIS: Re: OFF: [Assessor] Resolution of Proposals 7908-7921
On Mon, 16 Oct 2017, VJ Rada wrote: > >By the rules of the time, the Decision was initiated correctly. > > THIS IS NOT TRUE. By the rules of the time, they were initiated > wrongly. By the UNAMENDED rules of today (Initiating Agoran Decisions, > rule 107), not changed at all by new proposals) they were still wrong. > I am taking a quibble with form UNRELATED to the new proposal. There's > a reason every election initation before me inclued "and the valid > options are PRESENT and the players" or something like it) > > Please retract your CFJ. Oh, I see - absolutely, reading too quickly. I withdraw my CFJ. You were waiting to see if you were winning, weren't you :P. (But we're still stuck in getting things going...)
Re: BUS: Re: DIS: Re: OFF: [Assessor] Resolution of Proposals 7908-7921
On Mon, 16 Oct 2017, VJ Rada wrote: > No it wasn't. The initiation of the Agoran Decision was illegal when > it happened and it's illegal now. I don't mean it's NEWLY illegal. I > messed up and made an illegal initiation at the time, which can be > remedied within 7 days, a period we are still in. > > I now, to a-b, officially "identify" the lack of options noted in my > initiation. > > The ELECTIONS were still initiated (one by G. and one by me) but the > DECISIONS were not. I CFJ, using AP, on the following, barring VJ Rada: An Agoran Decision to determine the new Prime Minister was initiated on October 9. Arguments: By the rules of the time, the Decision was initiated correctly. Allowing retroactive setting of the truth without specifically stating that it happens (e.g. through ratification) is dangerous. Evidence: Send Mon Oct 9 03:18:27 UTC 2017 by V.J. Rada: > I initiate an election for ADoP. I initiate the Agoran decisions for the > determination of the new ADoP and Prime Minister. The quorum is 3.0, > the vote collector is the ADoP (I will remain in office to count this, > obviously). It's instant-runoff.
Re: BUS: Re: DIS: Re: OFF: [Assessor] Resolution of Proposals 7908-7921
No it wasn't. The initiation of the Agoran Decision was illegal when it happened and it's illegal now. I don't mean it's NEWLY illegal. I messed up and made an illegal initiation at the time, which can be remedied within 7 days, a period we are still in. I now, to a-b, officially "identify" the lack of options noted in my initiation. The ELECTIONS were still initiated (one by G. and one by me) but the DECISIONS were not. On Mon, Oct 16, 2017 at 9:01 AM, Kerim Aydin wrote: > > > On Sun, 15 Oct 2017, Alex Smith wrote: >> On Mon, 2017-10-16 at 08:54 +1100, VJ Rada wrote: >> > And the notice of initiation lacked any set of the valid votes, which >> > I wasn't going to point out but now do. Therefore, the Agoran >> > Decisions were never initiated. >> >> Does pointing it out to a-d count? >> >> I'd recommend an explicit "CoE" to a-b, as the simplest way to give >> certainty about the gamestate. (That is, unless more uncertainty is >> considered a good thing.) > > I'm really not sure you can retroactively reconstruct the gamestate like > that, given that it was a perfectly valid announcement when it happened. > If a CFJ is phrased past-tense: > "Was a decision initiated on [date]" > it would pretty clearly be true, to say otherwise is to ratify the > past without actually doing so. > > Think of the consequences: if we could do this, we could undo lots of > things that don't self-ratify (e.g. we could change the Winning rules > and say "because you can't Win that way by the rules now, you couldn't > have won that way back then"). > > > -- >From V.J. Rada
BUS: Re: DIS: Re: OFF: [Assessor] Resolution of Proposals 7908-7921
If anyone else wants to contradict me on what I think happens, go for it. On Mon, Oct 16, 2017 at 8:39 AM, VJ Rada wrote: > I nominate myself as a candidate for both ADoP and Prime Minister. I > am uncommitted. > > > > On Mon, Oct 16, 2017 at 8:37 AM, VJ Rada wrote: >> The election was validly initiated. It looks like for four hours or so >> that we're still in the Nomination Phase: and then if there is more >> than one candidate we'll go in an election, with the Assessor counting >> (hope you're ok with that added duty PSS) >> >> On Mon, Oct 16, 2017 at 7:24 AM, Kerim Aydin wrote: >>> >>> >>> On Sun, 15 Oct 2017, Publius Scribonius Scholasticus wrote: 7912* Alexis3.0 Election Campaigns Alexis 1 AP [2] >>> >>> So, um ... anyone want to opine on the status of the PM or ADoP elections? >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> From V.J. Rada > > > > -- > From V.J. Rada -- >From V.J. Rada
BUS: Re: DIS: Re: OFF: [Assessor] Resolution of Proposals 7908-7921
I nominate myself as a candidate for both ADoP and Prime Minister. I am uncommitted. On Mon, Oct 16, 2017 at 8:37 AM, VJ Rada wrote: > The election was validly initiated. It looks like for four hours or so > that we're still in the Nomination Phase: and then if there is more > than one candidate we'll go in an election, with the Assessor counting > (hope you're ok with that added duty PSS) > > On Mon, Oct 16, 2017 at 7:24 AM, Kerim Aydin wrote: >> >> >> On Sun, 15 Oct 2017, Publius Scribonius Scholasticus wrote: >>> 7912* Alexis3.0 Election Campaigns Alexis 1 AP [2] >> >> So, um ... anyone want to opine on the status of the PM or ADoP elections? >> >> >> > > > > -- > From V.J. Rada -- >From V.J. Rada
