Re: BUS: Shiny Smuggling (Again)
On 08/02/2017 08:47 PM, Nic Evans wrote:
On 07/30/2017 02:06 PM, Nic Evans wrote:
Everything in the last attempt failed because I never had any
shinies, stamps did not exist, and the mechanisms of ASaAA refered to
were void at that time. So here they are again:
Since I have not received a Welcome package since I most recently
registered, I cause myself to receive one now.
{
Me: 50 sh.
Agora: 950 sh.
}
I transfer 40 shinies to Agora to create a stamp.
{
Me: 10 sh. 1 Stamp (nichdel)
Agora: 990
}
I transfer 1 shiny to ASaAA, which gives me one ASaAA proxy.
{
Me: 9 sh. 1 Stamp (nichdel). 1 ASaAA Proxy
ASaAA: 8 sh.
}
I transfer my Stamp (nichdel) to ASaAA and, on behalf of the ASaAA,
transfer 8 shinies to me.
{
Me: 17 sh. 1 ASaAA Proxy
ASaAA: 0 sh. 1 Stamp (nichdel)
}
I note that the ASaAA has now transitioned from an Open Session to a
Voting Session.
I vote for myself in the ASaAA Voting Session 1 time, using all my
Proxies.
There's a CFJ out there, but I'm fairly convinced my scam failed. I
think the only actions that succeeded here were:
* Getting my Welcome Package
* Creating a stamp (nichdel)
* Giving 1 shiny to ASaAA (and receiving 1 ASaAA Proxy)
As such, ASaAA has 1 shiny and is still in an Open Session. Anyone can
give it shinies for proxies or give it a Stamp and receive its shinies.
I resolve my intent, included below, to amend the charter of ASaAA.
Ugh, I think I attempted this a day before I could. If the above intent
resolution failed, I resolve it now.
(I'd like to blame a stressful mid-august move for my recent
brain-meltage. I've been reading all the other shenanigans and working
on a couple economic fixes that might be presentable soon though.)
On 07/30/2017 01:31 PM, Nic Evans wrote:
Here's some ASaAA fixes (no scams this time I promise). Now any player
can sell eir stamps to the org, members cannot vote for whoever sold
a stamp to the org, members can vote for people who aren't in the
org, and voting sessions can end early if everyone has voted.
I intend to, without objections from other members, amend the ASaAA
charter to read in full as follows:
Agoran Stamps and Awards Association
Boilerplate
---
An amendment to this Organization is Appropriate if intent to perform
it was announced between 4 and 14 days ago, and no members of the
Organization have publicly objected to it since.
For the purposes of this charter, 'ASaAA' refers to this Organization
and 'member' refers to any member of this Organization. 'Proxies' are an
imaginary asset tracked by the Organization and only changeable,
transferable or otherwise manipulable as defined in this charter.
While there is no asset named 'Stamps', the remainder of this charter is
void and has no effect.
ASaAA Sessions
-
By default, the ASaAA is in an Open Session.
During an Open Session, any member may pay the ASaAA any number of
shinies to receive the same number of ASaAA Proxies.
During an Open Session, any player may transfer one Stamp to the ASaAA
and, on behalf of the ASaAA, transfer all the ASaAA's shinies to emself
by announcement. When this happens the ASaAA Open Session ends, an ASaAA
Voting Session begins, and the player who did so becomes the current
Patron.
During an ASaAA Voting Session, each member may vote for any player(s)
except for the current Patron any number of times and in any combination
as long as eir total votes do not exceed eir current number of Proxies.
Members cannot withdraw votes, but they need not cast all votes at once,
or at all.
An ASaAA Voting Session ends after 3 days or after every vote is cast,
whichever occurs first. When an ASaAA Voting Session has ended, any
member may, on behalf of the ASaAA, transfer any Stamp the ASaAA has to
the member who received the most votes, by announcement. Once a Stamp
has been successfully transfered, all persons have 0 Proxies and a new
Open Session begins.
Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Shiny Smuggling (Again)
TTttPF.
> On Aug 3, 2017, at 12:37 AM, Owen Jacobson wrote:
>
>
>> On Aug 2, 2017, at 9:47 PM, Nic Evans wrote:
>>
>> On 07/30/2017 02:06 PM, Nic Evans wrote:
>>> Everything in the last attempt failed because I never had any shinies,
>>> stamps did not exist, and the mechanisms of ASaAA refered to were void at
>>> that time. So here they are again:
>>>
>>> Since I have not received a Welcome package since I most recently
>>> registered, I cause myself to receive one now.
>>>
>>> {
>>> Me: 50 sh.
>>> Agora: 950 sh.
>>> }
>>>
>>> I transfer 40 shinies to Agora to create a stamp.
>>>
>>> {
>>> Me: 10 sh. 1 Stamp (nichdel)
>>> Agora: 990
>>> }
>>>
>>> I transfer 1 shiny to ASaAA, which gives me one ASaAA proxy.
>>>
>>> {
>>> Me: 9 sh. 1 Stamp (nichdel). 1 ASaAA Proxy
>>> ASaAA: 8 sh.
>>> }
>>>
>>> I transfer my Stamp (nichdel) to ASaAA and, on behalf of the ASaAA,
>>> transfer 8 shinies to me.
>>>
>>> {
>>> Me: 17 sh. 1 ASaAA Proxy
>>> ASaAA: 0 sh. 1 Stamp (nichdel)
>>> }
>>>
>>> I note that the ASaAA has now transitioned from an Open Session to a Voting
>>> Session.
>>>
>>> I vote for myself in the ASaAA Voting Session 1 time, using all my Proxies.
>>>
>>
>> There's a CFJ out there, but I'm fairly convinced my scam failed.
>
> If nichdel’s convinced this failed, does anyone see any value in continuing
> the CFJ? If not, I intend to withdraw it tomorrow.
>
> I pay nichdel 7 shinies. It was a good scam.
>
> {o: 75 -> 68 sh., nichdel: 4 -> 11 sh., probably}
>
> -o
>
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Re: BUS: Shiny Smuggling (Again)
On 07/30/2017 02:06 PM, Nic Evans wrote:
Everything in the last attempt failed because I never had any shinies,
stamps did not exist, and the mechanisms of ASaAA refered to were void
at that time. So here they are again:
Since I have not received a Welcome package since I most recently
registered, I cause myself to receive one now.
{
Me: 50 sh.
Agora: 950 sh.
}
I transfer 40 shinies to Agora to create a stamp.
{
Me: 10 sh. 1 Stamp (nichdel)
Agora: 990
}
I transfer 1 shiny to ASaAA, which gives me one ASaAA proxy.
{
Me: 9 sh. 1 Stamp (nichdel). 1 ASaAA Proxy
ASaAA: 8 sh.
}
I transfer my Stamp (nichdel) to ASaAA and, on behalf of the ASaAA,
transfer 8 shinies to me.
{
Me: 17 sh. 1 ASaAA Proxy
ASaAA: 0 sh. 1 Stamp (nichdel)
}
I note that the ASaAA has now transitioned from an Open Session to a
Voting Session.
I vote for myself in the ASaAA Voting Session 1 time, using all my
Proxies.
There's a CFJ out there, but I'm fairly convinced my scam failed. I
think the only actions that succeeded here were:
* Getting my Welcome Package
* Creating a stamp (nichdel)
* Giving 1 shiny to ASaAA (and receiving 1 ASaAA Proxy)
As such, ASaAA has 1 shiny and is still in an Open Session. Anyone can
give it shinies for proxies or give it a Stamp and receive its shinies.
I resolve my intent, included below, to amend the charter of ASaAA.
On 07/30/2017 01:31 PM, Nic Evans wrote:
Here's some ASaAA fixes (no scams this time I promise). Now any player
can sell eir stamps to the org, members cannot vote for whoever sold
a stamp to the org, members can vote for people who aren't in the
org, and voting sessions can end early if everyone has voted.
I intend to, without objections from other members, amend the ASaAA
charter to read in full as follows:
Agoran Stamps and Awards Association
Boilerplate
---
An amendment to this Organization is Appropriate if intent to perform
it was announced between 4 and 14 days ago, and no members of the
Organization have publicly objected to it since.
For the purposes of this charter, 'ASaAA' refers to this Organization
and 'member' refers to any member of this Organization. 'Proxies' are an
imaginary asset tracked by the Organization and only changeable,
transferable or otherwise manipulable as defined in this charter.
While there is no asset named 'Stamps', the remainder of this charter is
void and has no effect.
ASaAA Sessions
-
By default, the ASaAA is in an Open Session.
During an Open Session, any member may pay the ASaAA any number of
shinies to receive the same number of ASaAA Proxies.
During an Open Session, any player may transfer one Stamp to the ASaAA
and, on behalf of the ASaAA, transfer all the ASaAA's shinies to emself
by announcement. When this happens the ASaAA Open Session ends, an ASaAA
Voting Session begins, and the player who did so becomes the current
Patron.
During an ASaAA Voting Session, each member may vote for any player(s)
except for the current Patron any number of times and in any combination
as long as eir total votes do not exceed eir current number of Proxies.
Members cannot withdraw votes, but they need not cast all votes at once,
or at all.
An ASaAA Voting Session ends after 3 days or after every vote is cast,
whichever occurs first. When an ASaAA Voting Session has ended, any
member may, on behalf of the ASaAA, transfer any Stamp the ASaAA has to
the member who received the most votes, by announcement. Once a Stamp
has been successfully transfered, all persons have 0 Proxies and a new
Open Session begins.
Re: BUS: Shiny Smuggling (Again)
On Mon, 2017-07-31 at 22:54 -0700, Aris Merchant wrote: > On Jul 31, 2017 10:48 PM, "Owen Jacobson" wrote: > > I transfer my Stamp (nichdel) to ASaAA and, on behalf of the ASaAA, > > transfer 8 shinies to me. "CoE": I don't believe there's any mechanism within the rules that allows Organizations to transfer Shinies to players. -- ais523
Re: BUS: Shiny Smuggling (Again)
On Jul 31, 2017 10:48 PM, "Owen Jacobson" wrote:
On Jul 30, 2017, at 3:06 PM, Nic Evans wrote:
Everything in the last attempt failed because I never had any shinies,
stamps did not exist, and the mechanisms of ASaAA refered to were void at
that time. So here they are again:
Since I have not received a Welcome package since I most recently
registered, I cause myself to receive one now.
{
Me: 50 sh.
Agora: 950 sh.
}
I transfer 40 shinies to Agora to create a stamp.
{
Me: 10 sh. 1 Stamp (nichdel)
Agora: 990
}
I transfer 1 shiny to ASaAA, which gives me one ASaAA proxy.
{
Me: 9 sh. 1 Stamp (nichdel). 1 ASaAA Proxy
ASaAA: 8 sh.
}
I transfer my Stamp (nichdel) to ASaAA and, on behalf of the ASaAA,
transfer 8 shinies to me.
{
Me: 17 sh. 1 ASaAA Proxy
ASaAA: 0 sh. 1 Stamp (nichdel)
}
I note that the ASaAA has now transitioned from an Open Session to a Voting
Session.
I vote for myself in the ASaAA Voting Session 1 time, using all my Proxies.
I spend an action point, if it is possible for me to do so, to call for
judgement on the following statement:
Nichdel has 1 Stamp (nichdel) and 9 Shinies.
Caller’s arguments:
First, my apologies to whichever poor sap gets to judge this, because you
get to do some forensic accounting. I keep fairly complete records, so feel
more than free to request further evidence.
I disfavor this case.
-Aris
Re: BUS: Shiny Smuggling (Again)
> On Jul 30, 2017, at 3:06 PM, Nic Evans wrote:
>
> Everything in the last attempt failed because I never had any shinies, stamps
> did not exist, and the mechanisms of ASaAA refered to were void at that time.
> So here they are again:
>
> Since I have not received a Welcome package since I most recently registered,
> I cause myself to receive one now.
>
> {
> Me: 50 sh.
> Agora: 950 sh.
> }
>
> I transfer 40 shinies to Agora to create a stamp.
>
> {
> Me: 10 sh. 1 Stamp (nichdel)
> Agora: 990
> }
>
> I transfer 1 shiny to ASaAA, which gives me one ASaAA proxy.
>
> {
> Me: 9 sh. 1 Stamp (nichdel). 1 ASaAA Proxy
> ASaAA: 8 sh.
> }
>
> I transfer my Stamp (nichdel) to ASaAA and, on behalf of the ASaAA, transfer
> 8 shinies to me.
>
> {
> Me: 17 sh. 1 ASaAA Proxy
> ASaAA: 0 sh. 1 Stamp (nichdel)
> }
>
> I note that the ASaAA has now transitioned from an Open Session to a Voting
> Session.
>
> I vote for myself in the ASaAA Voting Session 1 time, using all my Proxies.
I spend an action point, if it is possible for me to do so, to call for
judgement on the following statement:
Nichdel has 1 Stamp (nichdel) and 9 Shinies.
Caller’s arguments:
First, my apologies to whichever poor sap gets to judge this, because you get
to do some forensic accounting. I keep fairly complete records, so feel more
than free to request further evidence.
The core of this CFJ is a transaction nichdel performed immediately prior to
the passage of proposal 7867:
On Jul 29, 2017, at 7:12 PM, Nic Evans wrote:
> I transfer 7 shinies to ASaAA.
(Re: BUS: Transfer)
However, according to my records, at this time nichdel had a balance of 2
Shinies. Per rule 2483 (“Economics”) in effect at that time:
> Any player CAN pay Agora, any other player, or any organization any amount by
> announcement, unless it would make eir own balance negative. Any attempt to
> PAY any amount that would make any player's or any organization's balance
> negative is INEFFECTIVE, rules to the contrary notwithstanding.
Paying 7 Shinies with a balance of 2 Shinies would make nichdel’s balance -5
Shinies, and therefore the payment is ineffective.
No other payments have ever been made to ASaAA, so its balance was, and
remained, zero.
Subsequently, proposal 7867 passed, which zeroed all players’ balances, and
reset Agora’s balance to 1,000 Shinies. (Organization balances were not
affected, a fact which appears to have been intentional in hindsight.)
Afterwards, after some minor paperwork cleanup, nichdel performed the following
trivially-successful transactions, quoted above:
* Received 50 shinies from Agora via a Welcome Package (nichdel: 50 sh)
* Paid 40 shinies to Agora to create 1 stamp in eir own possession (nichdel: 10
sh, 1 stamp)
* Paid 1 shiny to ASaAA (nichdel: 9 sh, 1 stamp; ASaAA: 1 sh)
Finally, e attempted to have ASaAA pay em 8 shinies in exchange for a stamp. E
noted this as a single transaction. Since ASaAA does not have 8 Shinies, by
rule 2483:
> Any organization CAN pay Agora, any player, or any other organization by
> announcement by a member of said organization, as specified in the charter of
> said organization, unless it would make the organization's balance negative.
> Any attempt by any player to cause an organization to pay any amount that
> would make that organization's balance negative is INEFFECTIVE, rules to the
> contrary notwithstanding.
This payment cannot succeed, and therefore neither can the transaction it is
part of.
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BUS: Shiny Smuggling (Again)
Everything in the last attempt failed because I never had any shinies,
stamps did not exist, and the mechanisms of ASaAA refered to were void
at that time. So here they are again:
Since I have not received a Welcome package since I most recently
registered, I cause myself to receive one now.
{
Me: 50 sh.
Agora: 950 sh.
}
I transfer 40 shinies to Agora to create a stamp.
{
Me: 10 sh. 1 Stamp (nichdel)
Agora: 990
}
I transfer 1 shiny to ASaAA, which gives me one ASaAA proxy.
{
Me: 9 sh. 1 Stamp (nichdel). 1 ASaAA Proxy
ASaAA: 8 sh.
}
I transfer my Stamp (nichdel) to ASaAA and, on behalf of the ASaAA,
transfer 8 shinies to me.
{
Me: 17 sh. 1 ASaAA Proxy
ASaAA: 0 sh. 1 Stamp (nichdel)
}
I note that the ASaAA has now transitioned from an Open Session to a
Voting Session.
I vote for myself in the ASaAA Voting Session 1 time, using all my Proxies.
