Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Contract actions
Roger Hicks wrote: > On Mon, Jun 1, 2009 at 21:11, Sean Hunt wrote: >> Roger Hicks wrote: >>> On Mon, Jun 1, 2009 at 20:54, Sean Hunt wrote: I terminate all Offers I created. I transfer a 9 Ranch to BobTHJ with the intent that e increase my caste. >>> I spend D F# A to increase coppro's caste by 1. >>> >>> BobTHJ >> Fails, it's already Alpha. >> > So my first spend (C E G) was successful and met this requirement? > > BobTHJ Yes.
Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Contract actions
On Mon, Jun 1, 2009 at 21:11, Sean Hunt wrote: > Roger Hicks wrote: >> On Mon, Jun 1, 2009 at 20:54, Sean Hunt wrote: >>> I terminate all Offers I created. >>> >>> I transfer a 9 Ranch to BobTHJ with the intent that e increase my caste. >>> >> I spend D F# A to increase coppro's caste by 1. >> >> BobTHJ > Fails, it's already Alpha. > So my first spend (C E G) was successful and met this requirement? BobTHJ
Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Switch CFJ
Benjamin Caplan wrote:
> Sean Hunt wrote:
>> Benjamin Caplan wrote:
>>> Sean Hunt wrote:
I agree to the following
{This is a pledge entitled Test Subject. It can either be Blue or Green.
It can either be Red or Yellow. It is initially Blue and Red. It's
Disclosure is Public. When this contract's Disclosure is flipped, it
becomes Green. When this contract's Sentiment is flipped, it becomes
Yellow. Any player CAN terminate this contract by announcement.}
I CFJ {Test Subject is Green.}
I CFJ {Test Subject is Yellow.}
Arguments: There are three possibilities here. The first is that the
creation of the contract flips the switch by virtue of having it come to
be a given value. In that case, both conditions are met, and Test
Subject is Green and Yellow.
The second is that the creation of the contract does not flip the
switch, but that when the contract makes itself Public, this does
constitute a flip, making it Red and Green.
The third is that the switch always has one value and this is never
changed, causing it to be Blue and Red.
>>> This makes it clear that flipping is synonymous with coming to have a
>>> value, rather than a means of attaining as much. Thus, any event in
>>> which a switch "comes to have" a value -- in particular, when a newly
>>> created switch "comes to have" its default value -- is a flipping of
>>> that switch.
>> Note that Test Subject never had its default Disclosure.
>
> Are you arguing for the fourth possibility that the caller dismissed
> without argument, that Test Subject may be Blue and Yellow?
Possibly, actually. I'm just interested.
DIS: Re: BUS: Contract actions
Roger Hicks wrote: > On Mon, Jun 1, 2009 at 20:54, Sean Hunt wrote: >> I terminate all Offers I created. >> >> I transfer a 9 Ranch to BobTHJ with the intent that e increase my caste. >> > I spend D F# A to increase coppro's caste by 1. > > BobTHJ Fails, it's already Alpha.
DIS: Re: BUS: Re: OFF: [AAA] Agriculture Report
Roger Hicks wrote: > On Mon, Jun 1, 2009 at 20:44, Sean Hunt wrote: >> Sean Hunt wrote: >>> I create an Offer with the following fields: >>> Selling: two 9 crops and I will raise your caste by one >>> Buying: a 2 Ranch >>> Repeat: 2 >> I terminate this Offer. >> >> I create an Offer with the following fields: >> Selling: one 2 Ranch >> Buying: you will increase my caste by one. >> Repeat: 1 >> > > I spend C E G to increase coppro's caste by 1. > > If permitted, I act on coppro's behalf to transfer a two ranch to > myself. (I don't recall if that's part of an offer, and I'm too lazy > to look it up. Otherwise I'll wait for you to transfer it. > > BobTHJ Sorry, the offer was terminated. However, your increase satisfies your obligation under a different one of your pledges.
Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Switch CFJ
Sean Hunt wrote:
> Benjamin Caplan wrote:
>> Sean Hunt wrote:
>>> I agree to the following
>>>
>>> {This is a pledge entitled Test Subject. It can either be Blue or Green.
>>> It can either be Red or Yellow. It is initially Blue and Red. It's
>>> Disclosure is Public. When this contract's Disclosure is flipped, it
>>> becomes Green. When this contract's Sentiment is flipped, it becomes
>>> Yellow. Any player CAN terminate this contract by announcement.}
>>>
>>> I CFJ {Test Subject is Green.}
>>>
>>> I CFJ {Test Subject is Yellow.}
>>>
>>> Arguments: There are three possibilities here. The first is that the
>>> creation of the contract flips the switch by virtue of having it come to
>>> be a given value. In that case, both conditions are met, and Test
>>> Subject is Green and Yellow.
>>>
>>> The second is that the creation of the contract does not flip the
>>> switch, but that when the contract makes itself Public, this does
>>> constitute a flip, making it Red and Green.
>>>
>>> The third is that the switch always has one value and this is never
>>> changed, causing it to be Blue and Red.
>> This makes it clear that flipping is synonymous with coming to have a
>> value, rather than a means of attaining as much. Thus, any event in
>> which a switch "comes to have" a value -- in particular, when a newly
>> created switch "comes to have" its default value -- is a flipping of
>> that switch.
>
> Note that Test Subject never had its default Disclosure.
Are you arguing for the fourth possibility that the caller dismissed
without argument, that Test Subject may be Blue and Yellow?
Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Switch CFJ
Benjamin Caplan wrote:
> Sean Hunt wrote:
>> I agree to the following
>>
>> {This is a pledge entitled Test Subject. It can either be Blue or Green.
>> It can either be Red or Yellow. It is initially Blue and Red. It's
>> Disclosure is Public. When this contract's Disclosure is flipped, it
>> becomes Green. When this contract's Sentiment is flipped, it becomes
>> Yellow. Any player CAN terminate this contract by announcement.}
>>
>> I CFJ {Test Subject is Green.}
>>
>> I CFJ {Test Subject is Yellow.}
>>
>> Arguments: There are three possibilities here. The first is that the
>> creation of the contract flips the switch by virtue of having it come to
>> be a given value. In that case, both conditions are met, and Test
>> Subject is Green and Yellow.
>>
>> The second is that the creation of the contract does not flip the
>> switch, but that when the contract makes itself Public, this does
>> constitute a flip, making it Red and Green.
>>
>> The third is that the switch always has one value and this is never
>> changed, causing it to be Blue and Red.
> This makes it clear that flipping is synonymous with coming to have a
> value, rather than a means of attaining as much. Thus, any event in
> which a switch "comes to have" a value -- in particular, when a newly
> created switch "comes to have" its default value -- is a flipping of
> that switch.
Note that Test Subject never had its default Disclosure.
DIS: Re: BUS: Switch CFJ
Sean Hunt wrote:
> I agree to the following
>
> {This is a pledge entitled Test Subject. It can either be Blue or Green.
> It can either be Red or Yellow. It is initially Blue and Red. It's
> Disclosure is Public. When this contract's Disclosure is flipped, it
> becomes Green. When this contract's Sentiment is flipped, it becomes
> Yellow. Any player CAN terminate this contract by announcement.}
>
> I CFJ {Test Subject is Green.}
>
> I CFJ {Test Subject is Yellow.}
>
> Arguments: There are three possibilities here. The first is that the
> creation of the contract flips the switch by virtue of having it come to
> be a given value. In that case, both conditions are met, and Test
> Subject is Green and Yellow.
>
> The second is that the creation of the contract does not flip the
> switch, but that when the contract makes itself Public, this does
> constitute a flip, making it Red and Green.
>
> The third is that the switch always has one value and this is never
> changed, causing it to be Blue and Red.
Gratuitous arguments:
It seems that the only place in the Rules that would cause a switch that
has never been flipped to have a value is R2162p2s3:
If an instance of a switch would otherwise fail to have a
possible value, it comes to have its default value.
It seems, then, clear to me that both the Disclosure and Sentiment "come
to have" their default values, rather than being platonically created
with those values already in place.
Further:
"To flip an instance of a switch" is to make it come to have a
given value. "To become X" (where X is a possible value of
exactly one of the subject's switches) is to flip that switch to
X.
This makes it clear that flipping is synonymous with coming to have a
value, rather than a means of attaining as much. Thus, any event in
which a switch "comes to have" a value -- in particular, when a newly
created switch "comes to have" its default value -- is a flipping of
that switch.
I therefore believe that Test Subject is Green and Yellow, and that both
CFJs should be ruled TRUE.
DIS: Re: BUS: We Should Have Done This Long Ago
Aaron Goldfein wrote:
> On Mon, Jun 1, 2009 at 9:23 PM, Benjamin Caplan <
> celestialcognit...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I submit the following proposal, "Newbie Friendly", II=1, AI=2:
>> {
>> Amend Rule 869 (How to Join and Leave Agora) by replacing the text
>>
>> A first-class person CAN (unless explicitly forbidden or
>> prevented by the rules) register by announcing that e registers,
>> wishes to register, requests registration, or requests
>> permission to register.
>>
>> with
>>
>> A first-class person CAN (unless explicitly forbidden or
>> prevented by the rules) register by publishing a message that
>> indicates reasonably clearly and reasonably unambiguously that e
>> intends to become a player.
>>
>> }
>>
>> I intend, with Three Support, to make the above proposal Distributable.
>>
>> Pavitra.
>>
>
> I support.
>
I support.
DIS: Re: BUS: Proposal: Attitude
Aaron Goldfein wrote: > On Mon, Jun 1, 2009 at 11:33 AM, comex wrote: > >> Proposal: Attitude >> >> [See http://internomic2.wikidot.com/ruleset, rule 12] >> >> Enact a new Rule, titled "InterNomic Attitude": > > I intend, with three support, to make this proposal distributable. I support.
Re: DIS: test
2009/6/2 Sean Hunt : > Sean Hunt wrote: >> Sorry guys, just doing a test that needs to go through the lists. >> Apologies for spam. > This is another test; sorry again for spam. > i uh object
Re: DIS: test
Sean Hunt wrote: > Sorry guys, just doing a test that needs to go through the lists. > Apologies for spam. This is another test; sorry again for spam.
Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Janitor's Report
On Mon, Jun 1, 2009 at 3:09 PM, Taral wrote: > What's with the grocer's' apostrophe's? You mi's'spelled "apo'strophe's".
DIS: Re: BUS: [Enigma] Contract change intent
2009/6/1 Alex Smith : > There are no Enigma puzzles this week either. (Hopefully, though, > there'll be one or more submitted this week, that I can distribute next > week.) What about mine? Or is it included in the "one or more" for next week? -- -Tiger
DIS: Re: BUS: Janitor's Report
On Sun, May 31, 2009 at 3:54 PM, Quazie wrote: > The following are Agoran Holiday's as defined by R1769: > [I would also like to do an unofficial holiday's section. This would What's with the grocer's' apostrophe's? -- Taral "Please let me know if there's any further trouble I can give you." -- Unknown
DIS: Re: BUS: Case judgement
On Mon, Jun 1, 2009 at 9:09 AM, Kerim Aydin wrote: > > I opine OVERTURN/null in Appeal 2524a. -G. Can you please REMAND? The judgment was appropriate at the time and OVERRULE would hurt my rank.
Re: DIS: Re: BUS: RE: [IADoP] Periodic Election (CotC)
zeckalpha wrote: >>> I CFJ on the following statement: >>> Swine flu counts as pigs flying. >>> >>> -- >>> --Rodlen >>> >> I favor this case. >> > > I second. NttPF (see http://zenith.homelinux.net/acronyms/ for more info)
Re: DIS: Re: BUS: RE: [IADoP] Periodic Election (CotC)
>> I CFJ on the following statement: >> Swine flu counts as pigs flying. >> >> -- >> --Rodlen >> > > I favor this case. > I second. Kyle Marek-Spartz- KDØGTK
Re: DIS: Re: OFF: [Scorekeepor] Report
On Mon, Jun 1, 2009 at 11:32, Rodlen wrote: >> Rolden 1+ 1i 1 1 98 > > Rolden? > > Who is Rolden and when did he register? > > -- > --Rodlen > Weird, I've transposed the d and the l in my mind since I first read your nickname, always reading it as "ROLL-DEN" instead of "ROD-LEN". I'll fix that. BobTHJ
DIS: Re: OFF: [Scorekeepor] Report
> > Rolden 1+ 1i 1 198 > Rolden? Who is Rolden and when did he register? -- --Rodlen
Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Multiplayer Life site open
On Mon, 1 Jun 2009, comex wrote: > On Mon, Jun 1, 2009 at 4:44 AM, Kerim Aydin wrote: >> >> All, >> >> I've put together a basic multiplayer Game of Life program online: >> http://faculty.washington.edu/kerim/nomic/life/ > > This was running rather slowly for me, so I modified it a bit to use > an HTML canvas: > > http://qoid.us/life.html > > I suppose it's unimportant, as the real contest won't have very fast > stepping, but this version is much faster. Noticed the little red box showing the cell you were pointing to disappeared - I was going to add alt text so that the coords of each cell would pop up (pretty important if you need to send coordinates to the contestmaster to make a move), is that still possible under this version? In any case thx. I meant to ask for optimization suggestions, I felt it was running slowly as well... strangely of the half-dozen implementations I googled up this method was fastest so I thought the display method was making it fastest (being new to this) but it slowed down immensely when it was scaled up maybe those canvas implementations were broken in other ways. -G.
Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Multiplayer Life site open
2009/6/1 comex :
> On Mon, Jun 1, 2009 at 12:48 PM, Elliott Hird
> wrote:
>> 2009/6/1 comex :
>>> http://qoid.us/life.html
>>
>> Nice; combine with my suggestion?
>
> I don't understand your suggestion; the original is already doing this:
>
> function run() {
> if (stop=="false") {
> setTimeout("run()", delay);
> }
> generation();
> }
>
oh
okay
Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Multiplayer Life site open
On Mon, Jun 1, 2009 at 12:48 PM, Elliott Hird
wrote:
> 2009/6/1 comex :
>> http://qoid.us/life.html
>
> Nice; combine with my suggestion?
I don't understand your suggestion; the original is already doing this:
function run() {
if (stop=="false") {
setTimeout("run()", delay);
}
generation();
}
Re: DIS: Re: BUS: RE: [IADoP] Periodic Election (CotC)
2009/6/1 Elliott Hird : > 2009/6/1 Kerim Aydin : >> On Mon, 1 Jun 2009, Quazie wrote: >>> I CFJ on the following statement "My nomination for Cleck of the >>> Courts has been accepted" >> >> That's a very nice office title I think we should adopt it. -G. > > The Cleck of the Courts is responsible for giving a ridiculous > judgement that still looks well-reasoned at first sight; an utterly > ridiculous logical conclusion from terrible axioms. > > (Stolen from Nomicron's Wise Men of Chlem[sp].) > On every CFJ, that is.
Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Multiplayer Life site open
2009/6/1 comex : > http://qoid.us/life.html Nice; combine with my suggestion?
Re: DIS: Re: BUS: RE: [IADoP] Periodic Election (CotC)
On Mon, Jun 1, 2009 at 10:16, comex wrote: > On Mon, Jun 1, 2009 at 11:08 AM, Alex Smith wrote: >> On Mon, 2009-06-01 at 10:49 -0400, Quazie wrote: >>> On Mon, Jun 1, 2009 at 9:07 AM, Geoffrey Spear wrote: >>> > On Mon, Jun 1, 2009 at 8:58 AM, Quazie wrote: >>> >> I nominate Murphy as Clerk of the Courts. I pledge that anyone can >>> >> make me accept the nomination of Clerk of the Courts if pigs fly. >>> > >>> > I act on behalf of Quazie to accept eir nomination for Clerk of the >>> > Courts. >>> > >>> > Disclaimer: the above may fail if either ham sandwiches or policemen >>> > on airplanes don't count as "pigs flying". >>> > >>> I CFJ on the following statement "My nomination for Cleck of the >>> Courts has been accepted" >> >> I terminate the above inner-quoted pledge as obsolete; either it does >> something and has been used, in which case it no longer does anything, >> and therefore is obsolete; or it never did anything in the first place, >> in which case it is also obsolete. > > The definition of "pigs fly" may be, e.g., a real pig is flying, not > inside an enclosed vehicle (such as an airplane), but possibly with > other forms of assistance (such as a paraglider). Using such a > definition, "pigs fly" was probably false at the time Wobble purported > to act on behalf of Quazie, but may reasonably become true in the > future. > Didn't this happen just recently? Swine flu? BobTHJ
DIS: Re: BUS: RE: [IADoP] Periodic Election (CotC)
On Mon, Jun 1, 2009 at 11:08 AM, Alex Smith wrote: > On Mon, 2009-06-01 at 10:49 -0400, Quazie wrote: >> On Mon, Jun 1, 2009 at 9:07 AM, Geoffrey Spear wrote: >> > On Mon, Jun 1, 2009 at 8:58 AM, Quazie wrote: >> >> I nominate Murphy as Clerk of the Courts. I pledge that anyone can >> >> make me accept the nomination of Clerk of the Courts if pigs fly. >> > >> > I act on behalf of Quazie to accept eir nomination for Clerk of the Courts. >> > >> > Disclaimer: the above may fail if either ham sandwiches or policemen >> > on airplanes don't count as "pigs flying". >> > >> I CFJ on the following statement "My nomination for Cleck of the >> Courts has been accepted" > > I terminate the above inner-quoted pledge as obsolete; either it does > something and has been used, in which case it no longer does anything, > and therefore is obsolete; or it never did anything in the first place, > in which case it is also obsolete. The definition of "pigs fly" may be, e.g., a real pig is flying, not inside an enclosed vehicle (such as an airplane), but possibly with other forms of assistance (such as a paraglider). Using such a definition, "pigs fly" was probably false at the time Wobble purported to act on behalf of Quazie, but may reasonably become true in the future.
DIS: Re: BUS: Multiplayer Life site open
On Mon, Jun 1, 2009 at 4:44 AM, Kerim Aydin wrote: > > All, > > I've put together a basic multiplayer Game of Life program online: > http://faculty.washington.edu/kerim/nomic/life/ This was running rather slowly for me, so I modified it a bit to use an HTML canvas: http://qoid.us/life.html I suppose it's unimportant, as the real contest won't have very fast stepping, but this version is much faster.
DIS: Re: BUS: RE: [IADoP] Periodic Election (CotC)
On Mon, 1 Jun 2009, Quazie wrote: > I CFJ on the following statement "My nomination for Cleck of the > Courts has been accepted" That's a very nice office title I think we should adopt it. -G.
Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Re: zeckalpha is to be registered.
Michael wrote: > PS: would people be interested in a Zendo contest/sub-game? (See > http://www.koryheath.com/games/zendo/design-history, for example.) Yes.
DIS: Re: BUS: RE: [IADoP] Periodic Election (CotC)
Quazie wrote: > On Mon, Jun 1, 2009 at 8:02 AM, Aaron Goldfein > wrote: >> >> On Mon, Jun 1, 2009 at 4:20 AM, Alexander Smith wrote: >>> I wrote: Yally wrote: > I intend, with support, to initiate an election for Clerk of the > Courts. I support; even though the current political situation is such that Murphy will likely win no matter what the plausible circumstances (and I will likely vote for em), periodic elections feel right. >>> TTttPF, and how did that message end up without DIS: in the subject line? >>> >>> -- >>> ais523 >> I initiate an election for Clerk of the Courts. I nominate Quazie as Clerk >> of the Courts. >> > > I nominate Murphy as Clerk of the Courts. I pledge that anyone can > make me accept the nomination of Clerk of the Courts if pigs fly. R2154: "When an election is initiated, the current holder of the office (if any) is initially considered to have been nominated and have accepted." In case someone else does get elected, I offer to either continue maintaining the DB, train the new holder in maintaining it, or help migrate it. (Most things can be done via web forms, but some things are still done by monkeying around directly with SQL.)
DIS: Re: BUS: They're Proposals Too!
On Sun, May 31, 2009 at 7:59 PM, Sean Hunt wrote:
> Proposal {They're Proposals Too!}, AI=2, II=1
> {{{
> In Rule 1607, remove the word "Distributed" in the second-to-last paragraph.
>
> Assign each proposal the distributed proposal ID number it had prior to
> the adoption of this proposal, if any.
> }}}
>
> I spend A# to make the above proposal Distributable.
>
Assigning IDs to withdrawn and undistributed proposals would make the
ballots a mess. And, when you got re-elected as Promotor (I'll resign
immediately if this is adopted), you'd be required to track down each
and every withdrawn proposal from the times when anyone but Zefram and
I were Promotor from the message archives and assign them numbers, or
be subject to several thousand NoVs.
Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Re: zeckalpha is to be registered.
On Mon, Jun 1, 2009 at 4:09 AM, Alexander Smith wrote: > It could have been interesting, but it collapsed when Iammars became > inactive, and I don't think there have been any attempts to resurrect it > since. I made an attempt to resurrect it and got no interest at all.
RE: DIS: Re: BUS: Re: zeckalpha is to be registered.
G. wrote: > On Mon, 1 Jun 2009, Michael Norrish wrote: > > PS: would people be interested in a Zendo contest/sub-game? (See > > http://www.koryheath.com/games/zendo/design-history, for example.) > > That sounds a contest we played a little while ago. The contestmaster > came up with a secret rule for assigning values (or at least an ordering) > for arbitrary sentences. > > Two contestants would "fight" by challenging each other to a duel > consisting of one sentence each; the gamemaster would announce who won > (whose sentence was greater), object being of course to figure out the > rule to become the master duelist. It could have been interesting, but it collapsed when Iammars became inactive, and I don't think there have been any attempts to resurrect it since. (It never really got started; IIRC, this was about the time of the original Bank of Agora, because I think pens featured heavily in at least one of the common guesses.) -- ais523 <>
RE: DIS: Re: BUS: Janitor's Report
ehird wrote: > What- how? I believe you are well aware of the feature in question. (Hint if you can't remember: look at what offices coppro holds.) IMO, it's not a problem that a highly illegal win-by-announcement exists in the ruleset, as the backlash would likely be enough to cause the perpetrator to be deregistered (by proposal, if necessary). -- ais523 <>
DIS: RE: [IADoP] Periodic Election (CotC)
Yally wrote: > I intend, with support, to initiate an election for Clerk of the Courts. I support; even though the current political situation is such that Murphy will likely win no matter what the plausible circumstances (and I will likely vote for em), periodic elections feel right. -- ais523 <>
RE: DIS: Re: BUS: Re: zeckalpha is to be registered.
Michael wrote: > Kyle Marek-Spartz wrote: > > I assumed... Hazing of sorts. Makes sense to weed out those unwilling > > to put up with criticism and informs initiates about some of the > > subtleties of the Agoran way. Clever. > > I'm kinda glad I never had to bother with it :-) I just love the way that the more we try to loosen up registration to not alienate new players, the more interesting ways turn up for it to go wrong. (zeckalpha: you may want to look at the use/mention distinction, at R478, and possibly also at R754. I suspect you are a player, but it's something I'd like a judge to look at.) -- ais523 <>
Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Re: zeckalpha is to be registered.
On Mon, 1 Jun 2009, Michael Norrish wrote: > PS: would people be interested in a Zendo contest/sub-game? (See > http://www.koryheath.com/games/zendo/design-history, for example.) That sounds a contest we played a little while ago. The contestmaster came up with a secret rule for assigning values (or at least an ordering) for arbitrary sentences. Two contestants would "fight" by challenging each other to a duel consisting of one sentence each; the gamemaster would announce who won (whose sentence was greater), object being of course to figure out the rule to become the master duelist. -G.
