Re: BUS: Re: DIS: Re: OFF: [Assessor] Voting results for Proposals 6944 - 6947
On Sun, Jan 16, 2011 at 11:45 PM, Ed Murphy wrote: > Where permitted > by other rules, a proposal that takes effect generally can, as > part of its effect, apply the changes that it specifies. This is a no-op (except possibly in the case of a power conflict), because it only copies existing authorization-- which only makes sense in R105 because that rule "provides the only mechanism by which" rule changes can happen. Remove the "where permitted" bit and it works, but I think it's unnecessarily specific-- how about this, in R1688? "A rule that defines certain actions as part of an instrument's effect also allows those actions to take place, except when explicitly prohibited by rules of equal or greater power." (I still think the definition of instruments and taking effect is unnecessarily complex-- see a rant I made once about band-aids.)
Re: BUS: Re: DIS: Re: OFF: [Assessor] Voting results for Proposals 6944 - 6947
scshunt wrote: > It's worth noting that the current wording was specifically written to > avoid the issue of Rule 106 accidentally authorizing the proposal to > perform higher-power changes. I think the proto would preserve that, as it deliberately parallels Rule 105's "Where permitted by other rules" (which accounts for e.g. insufficient Power per Rule 2140).
Re: BUS: Re: DIS: Re: OFF: [Assessor] Voting results for Proposals 6944 - 6947
On 11-01-16 11:45 PM, Ed Murphy wrote: I think it's reasonable to interpret Rule 106's "it applies those changes" as implying "it may apply those changes", but it should be clarified now that it's been pointed out. (Rule 105 explicitly says that instruments can make rule changes, so no problem there.) Proto-Proposal: Clarify Rule 106 (AI = 3, II = 3, co-author = scshunt) Amend Rule 106 (Adopting Proposals) by replacing this text: A proposal is a fixed body of text which has been made into a proposal using a process specifically described in the Rules. When creating proposals, the person who creates them SHOULD ensure that the proposal outlines changes to be made to Agora, such as enacting, repealing, or amending rules, or making other explicit changes to the gamestate. When a proposal that includes such explicit changes takes effect, it applies those changes to the gamestate. If the proposal cannot make some such changes, this does not preclude the other changes from taking place. with this text: A proposal is a fixed body of text which has been made into a proposal using a process specifically described in the Rules. When a person creates a proposal, e SHOULD ensure that it specifies one or more changes to the gamestate. Where permitted by other rules, a proposal that takes effect generally can, as part of its effect, apply the changes that it specifies. If the proposal cannot make some such changes, this does not preclude the other changes from taking place. It's worth noting that the current wording was specifically written to avoid the issue of Rule 106 accidentally authorizing the proposal to perform higher-power changes. -scshunt
Re: BUS: Re: DIS: Re: OFF: [Assessor] Voting results for Proposals 6944 - 6947
scshunt wrote: > On 11-01-16 10:09 PM, omd wrote: >> note that although this publicity flipping somewhat uniquely is >> regulated by c), just about any proposal that did anything nontrivial >> besides rule changes would have failed under your interpretation due >> to e) > > Yes. I think it's reasonable to interpret Rule 106's "it applies those changes" as implying "it may apply those changes", but it should be clarified now that it's been pointed out. (Rule 105 explicitly says that instruments can make rule changes, so no problem there.) Proto-Proposal: Clarify Rule 106 (AI = 3, II = 3, co-author = scshunt) Amend Rule 106 (Adopting Proposals) by replacing this text: A proposal is a fixed body of text which has been made into a proposal using a process specifically described in the Rules. When creating proposals, the person who creates them SHOULD ensure that the proposal outlines changes to be made to Agora, such as enacting, repealing, or amending rules, or making other explicit changes to the gamestate. When a proposal that includes such explicit changes takes effect, it applies those changes to the gamestate. If the proposal cannot make some such changes, this does not preclude the other changes from taking place. with this text: A proposal is a fixed body of text which has been made into a proposal using a process specifically described in the Rules. When a person creates a proposal, e SHOULD ensure that it specifies one or more changes to the gamestate. Where permitted by other rules, a proposal that takes effect generally can, as part of its effect, apply the changes that it specifies. If the proposal cannot make some such changes, this does not preclude the other changes from taking place.
Re: BUS: Re: DIS: Re: OFF: [Assessor] Voting results for Proposals 6944 - 6947
On 11-01-16 10:09 PM, omd wrote: note that although this publicity flipping somewhat uniquely is regulated by c), just about any proposal that did anything nontrivial besides rule changes would have failed under your interpretation due to e) Yes. -scshunt
Re: BUS: Re: DIS: Re: OFF: [Assessor] Voting results for Proposals 6944 - 6947
On Sun, Jan 16, 2011 at 9:43 PM, Sean Hunt wrote: > Rule 106 does not allow the proposal to do anything. It merely causes the > proposal to act. The proposal is still restricted by what any rules, > including R2125, say. note that although this publicity flipping somewhat uniquely is regulated by c), just about any proposal that did anything nontrivial besides rule changes would have failed under your interpretation due to e)
Re: BUS: Re: DIS: Re: OFF: [Assessor] Voting results for Proposals 6944 - 6947
On 11-01-16 09:21 PM, Ed Murphy wrote: So? Rule 478 doesn't secure the flipping of a forum's publicity, so any rule-approved process (including an adopted proposal taking effect per Rule 106) satisfies R2125(c) and (e). Rule 106 does not allow the proposal to do anything. It merely causes the proposal to act. The proposal is still restricted by what any rules, including R2125, say. This has been a longstanding bug in Agoran rules. I've tried to fix it before. I simply haven't tried to use it before because I haven't cared enough, but I am not interested in subscribing to a Google group to play Agora. Sean
Re: BUS: Re: DIS: Re: OFF: [Assessor] Voting results for Proposals 6944 - 6947
On 11-01-16 08:31 PM, Ed Murphy wrote: omd wrote: On Sun, Jan 16, 2011 at 7:08 PM, Sean Hunt wrote: On 11-01-16 05:54 PM, Ed Murphy wrote: Proposal 6947 (Ordinary, AI=1.0, Interest=1) by Wooble New Forum Flip the Publicity of the mailing list with the address agora-pub...@googlegroups.com (on the web at http://groups.google.com/group/agora-public) to Public. This proposal has no effect; nothing grants it the power to do so and flipping Publicity is a regulated action. CFJ: agora-pub...@googlegroups.com is a Public Forum. Arguments: above. Gratuitous: Rule 106 does. Gratuitous: Rule 106 says that When a proposal that includes such explicit changes takes effect, it applies those changes to the gamestate. If the proposal cannot make some such changes, this does not preclude the other changes from taking place. This does not actually grant it any powers it doesn't already have, it merely instructs the proposal to attempt to perform its text. Sean
Re: BUS: Re: DIS: Re: OFF: [Assessor] Voting results for Proposals 6944 - 6947
omd wrote: > On Sun, Jan 16, 2011 at 7:08 PM, Sean Hunt > wrote: >> On 11-01-16 05:54 PM, Ed Murphy wrote: >>> >>> Proposal 6947 (Ordinary, AI=1.0, Interest=1) by Wooble >>> >>> New Forum >>> >>> Flip the Publicity of the mailing list with the address >>> agora-pub...@googlegroups.com (on the web at >>> http://groups.google.com/group/agora-public) to Public. >> >> This proposal has no effect; nothing grants it the power to do so and >> flipping Publicity is a regulated action. > > CFJ: agora-pub...@googlegroups.com is a Public Forum. > > Arguments: above. Gratuitous: Rule 106 does.
DIS: Re: OFF: [Assessor] Voting results for Proposals 6944 - 6947
On 11-01-16 05:54 PM, Ed Murphy wrote: Proposal 6947 (Ordinary, AI=1.0, Interest=1) by Wooble New Forum Flip the Publicity of the mailing list with the address agora-pub...@googlegroups.com (on the web at http://groups.google.com/group/agora-public) to Public. This proposal has no effect; nothing grants it the power to do so and flipping Publicity is a regulated action. scshunt
DIS: Re: BUS: Judgements
ais523 wrote: > I increase the II of CFJ 2951 to 1 and judge it TRUE. The caller's The II was already 3, so this increase was ineffective, and your later capacitor award may also have been ineffective.
