Re: DIS: Nerf Zombies

[Aris Merchant]

I thought of that. In some ways that would be preferable, but they're
an interesting system that hasn't been around that long. When it gets
closer to October (presuming we don't get rid of it sooner), we should
maybe come up something where we could create a timed repeal, and then
make delaying it a mini-game.

-Aris

On Thu, Apr 26, 2018 at 6:48 AM, ATMunn  wrote:
> Another (probably unpopular) option: Just get rid of zombies altogether.
>
>
> On 4/26/2018 2:29 AM, Aris Merchant wrote:
>>
>> It's clear that zombies are way to powerful and need to be weakened
>> substantially. Proposed restrictions:
>>
>> - 1 zombie per player max
>> - Zombies can be deregistered by announcement after a month as zombies
>>
>> -Aris
>>
>

Re: DIS: Nerf Zombies

[ATMunn]

Another (probably unpopular) option: Just get rid of zombies altogether.

On 4/26/2018 2:29 AM, Aris Merchant wrote:

It's clear that zombies are way to powerful and need to be weakened
substantially. Proposed restrictions:

- 1 zombie per player max
- Zombies can be deregistered by announcement after a month as zombies

-Aris

DIS: Nerf Zombies

[Corona]

I hope you don't hold it against me. My original plan was to build a mine,
orchard & refinery, all at level 2, which I could comfortably buy (so I
would probably become the richest player regardless of the scam, with 28
coins/week & negligible upkeep).

When I was going over the rules to make sure I don't mess up the actions, I
discovered that error, which doesn't even allow me to upgrade the buildings
"normally", otherwise I'd consider doing that. It also affects all players
in the same way, the only difference is that I had lots of assets and land
units before, which is hardly my fault.


@VJ Rada: There is a mistake in a rule that allows you to upgrade
facilities essentially for free, and I did that.


Ad overpowered zombies: The first issue that should be tackled is that
zombies actually don't cost anything, as you receive their money (usually a
welcome package) when you buy them. Like G., I was surprised that the bids
were so low in the zombie auction, considering all the zombies had at least
30 Coins. Quazie would not be nearly so useful to me if I didn't have the
assets to buy all the land units and buildings.

Suggested fix: a player loses all assets when their Master switch is
flipped to Agora. They become eligible to receive a Welcome Package (for
when they start playing again). A player can only receive WPs when eir
Master switch is set to emself.


The second issue raised, zombie master dictatorship, could be fixed by
capping the total zombie vote power at some number, for example:

Suppose that zombie vote power cap = 5, but there are 7 zombies, each with
vote power 1. Each zombie's vote power will then be multiplied by 5/7.

The cap could perhaps be the current Quorum?


On Thursday, April 26, 2018, Aris Merchant  wrote:

> The zombie thing wasn't an immediate response to that part of the scam.
> TBH, I'm really really tired (I've got a cold at the moment), and I missed
> the fact that there was even a scam to start with, thinking instead that it
> was just that it was just somehow too easy to pay for things. I have no
> clue how I did that, I must have just glanced over the text without
> actually reading it. However, the zombie problem still exists, because
> right now e could monopolize all zombie auctions and eventually get a
> dictatorship. It should be near impossible to get a full dictatorship even
> with an infinite wealth scam (a win would be fair, however). I was worrying
> about zombies already too, and these were my thoughts after the scam you
> pulled off a few days ago. The thing about things being to cheap was
> definitely a misapprehension on my part in this case, though I there's
> still some general truth to it. Sorry everyone for the mess up though.
>
> -Aris
>
> On Wed, Apr 25, 2018 at 11:52 PM Kerim Aydin 
> wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > This scam was due to the pay bug and could have been done (sorta)
> > with contracts too, right?
> >
> > On Thu, 26 Apr 2018, Aris Merchant wrote:
> > > It's clear that zombies are way to powerful and need to be weakened
> > > substantially. Proposed restrictions:
> > >
> > > - 1 zombie per player max
> > > - Zombies can be deregistered by announcement after a month as zombies
> > >
> > > -Aris
> > >
> >
> >
> >
>


-- 
~Corona

Re: DIS: Nerf Zombies

[Ørjan Johansen]

On Thu, 26 Apr 2018, Ned Strange wrote:


What was the scam?


"paying" is currently a synonym for "transferring".  The rule about 
upgrading facilities doesn't say that the payments have to be to Agora, so 
Corona just transferred back and forth with eir Zombie Quazie.


Greetings,
Ørjan.

Re: DIS: Nerf Zombies

[Ned Strange]

What was the scam?

On Thu, Apr 26, 2018 at 5:08 PM, Aris Merchant
 wrote:
> The zombie thing wasn't an immediate response to that part of the scam.
> TBH, I'm really really tired (I've got a cold at the moment), and I missed
> the fact that there was even a scam to start with, thinking instead that it
> was just that it was just somehow too easy to pay for things. I have no
> clue how I did that, I must have just glanced over the text without
> actually reading it. However, the zombie problem still exists, because
> right now e could monopolize all zombie auctions and eventually get a
> dictatorship. It should be near impossible to get a full dictatorship even
> with an infinite wealth scam (a win would be fair, however). I was worrying
> about zombies already too, and these were my thoughts after the scam you
> pulled off a few days ago. The thing about things being to cheap was
> definitely a misapprehension on my part in this case, though I there's
> still some general truth to it. Sorry everyone for the mess up though.
>
> -Aris
>
> On Wed, Apr 25, 2018 at 11:52 PM Kerim Aydin  wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> This scam was due to the pay bug and could have been done (sorta)
>> with contracts too, right?
>>
>> On Thu, 26 Apr 2018, Aris Merchant wrote:
>> > It's clear that zombies are way to powerful and need to be weakened
>> > substantially. Proposed restrictions:
>> >
>> > - 1 zombie per player max
>> > - Zombies can be deregistered by announcement after a month as zombies
>> >
>> > -Aris
>> >
>>
>>
>>



-- 
>From V.J. Rada

Re: DIS: Nerf Zombies

[Aris Merchant]

The zombie thing wasn't an immediate response to that part of the scam.
TBH, I'm really really tired (I've got a cold at the moment), and I missed
the fact that there was even a scam to start with, thinking instead that it
was just that it was just somehow too easy to pay for things. I have no
clue how I did that, I must have just glanced over the text without
actually reading it. However, the zombie problem still exists, because
right now e could monopolize all zombie auctions and eventually get a
dictatorship. It should be near impossible to get a full dictatorship even
with an infinite wealth scam (a win would be fair, however). I was worrying
about zombies already too, and these were my thoughts after the scam you
pulled off a few days ago. The thing about things being to cheap was
definitely a misapprehension on my part in this case, though I there's
still some general truth to it. Sorry everyone for the mess up though.

-Aris

On Wed, Apr 25, 2018 at 11:52 PM Kerim Aydin  wrote:

>
>
> This scam was due to the pay bug and could have been done (sorta)
> with contracts too, right?
>
> On Thu, 26 Apr 2018, Aris Merchant wrote:
> > It's clear that zombies are way to powerful and need to be weakened
> > substantially. Proposed restrictions:
> >
> > - 1 zombie per player max
> > - Zombies can be deregistered by announcement after a month as zombies
> >
> > -Aris
> >
>
>
>

Re: DIS: Nerf Zombies

[Aris Merchant]

I'd like zombies to die of old age. Otherwise, players could stay
registered indefinitely, and the number of zombies only increases. It seems
somehow... unnatural to me for people to stay registered forever. It's hard
to explain, but I kind of feel like they've died, if perhaps reversibly,
and we should give them their rest. I agree on crystals though. Still, it
doesn't work great if one player can monopolize it indefinitely.

-Aris

On Wed, Apr 25, 2018 at 11:54 PM Reuben Staley 
wrote:

> Potential hole: players are, for the most part, against deregistering
> omd. Therefore, you can count on em always being a stable bet, making
> the owner of omd overpowered. I do agree that the one zombie per player
> rule makes lots of sense.
>
> Additional idea: what if all of the zombies are returned to Agora every
> quarter. In the following zombie auction, anyone who owned a zombie
> empire would only be able to get one lot in the auction, balancing it
> out a bit. Then the lower-ranking players are able to maybe get some of
> their own. The issue with this is that there will be an instant where
> zombie ownership becomes pointless. Maybe a better way would be a
> gradual shift where after 60 days of a player owning a zombie, that
> zombie can have its master switch set to Agora, meaning that zombies are
> a continual moneysink, therefore draining the wallet of zombie owners.
>
> Final idea: automatic deregistration of zombies that no one recieves in
> an auction. This ensures that there will always be more players
> interested in owning zombies than there are actual zombies, creating a
> real power struggle. Which is good.
>
> But this is ignoring the best solution of all: we need more things to
> spend money on. If we add incentives for the richest people in the game
> to buy luxuries, that means that everyone else has more money in
> comparison to purchase zombies and land units and stuff that they need
> to get going. Crystals are a good first step, but even more should be
> done to encourage this. Maybe money can be spent to influence Q*Bert. Or
> maybe we have a similar entity (i.e. Pac-Man) that creates land like
> Q*Bert, but whose express purpose is to be influenced by players.
>
> But at this point, it's very late and I'm just desparately trying to
> sound like I'm in control of a mechanic that is very deeply broken in
> its current state.
>
> On 04/26/2018 12:29 AM, Aris Merchant wrote:
> > It's clear that zombies are way to powerful and need to be weakened
> > substantially. Proposed restrictions:
> >
> > - 1 zombie per player max
> > - Zombies can be deregistered by announcement after a month as zombies
> >
> > -Aris
> >
>
> --
> Trigon
>

Re: DIS: Nerf Zombies

[Reuben Staley]

Potential hole: players are, for the most part, against deregistering 
omd. Therefore, you can count on em always being a stable bet, making 
the owner of omd overpowered. I do agree that the one zombie per player 
rule makes lots of sense.


Additional idea: what if all of the zombies are returned to Agora every 
quarter. In the following zombie auction, anyone who owned a zombie 
empire would only be able to get one lot in the auction, balancing it 
out a bit. Then the lower-ranking players are able to maybe get some of 
their own. The issue with this is that there will be an instant where 
zombie ownership becomes pointless. Maybe a better way would be a 
gradual shift where after 60 days of a player owning a zombie, that 
zombie can have its master switch set to Agora, meaning that zombies are 
a continual moneysink, therefore draining the wallet of zombie owners.


Final idea: automatic deregistration of zombies that no one recieves in 
an auction. This ensures that there will always be more players 
interested in owning zombies than there are actual zombies, creating a 
real power struggle. Which is good.


But this is ignoring the best solution of all: we need more things to 
spend money on. If we add incentives for the richest people in the game 
to buy luxuries, that means that everyone else has more money in 
comparison to purchase zombies and land units and stuff that they need 
to get going. Crystals are a good first step, but even more should be 
done to encourage this. Maybe money can be spent to influence Q*Bert. Or 
maybe we have a similar entity (i.e. Pac-Man) that creates land like 
Q*Bert, but whose express purpose is to be influenced by players.


But at this point, it's very late and I'm just desparately trying to 
sound like I'm in control of a mechanic that is very deeply broken in 
its current state.


On 04/26/2018 12:29 AM, Aris Merchant wrote:

It's clear that zombies are way to powerful and need to be weakened
substantially. Proposed restrictions:

- 1 zombie per player max
- Zombies can be deregistered by announcement after a month as zombies

-Aris



--
Trigon

Re: DIS: Nerf Zombies

[Kerim Aydin]

This scam was due to the pay bug and could have been done (sorta)
with contracts too, right?

On Thu, 26 Apr 2018, Aris Merchant wrote:
> It's clear that zombies are way to powerful and need to be weakened
> substantially. Proposed restrictions:
> 
> - 1 zombie per player max
> - Zombies can be deregistered by announcement after a month as zombies
> 
> -Aris
> 

DIS: Nerf Zombies

[Aris Merchant]

It's clear that zombies are way to powerful and need to be weakened
substantially. Proposed restrictions:

- 1 zombie per player max
- Zombies can be deregistered by announcement after a month as zombies

-Aris