Re: DIS: Re: OFF: [Arbitor] CFJ 3818 Assigned to Jason
On 3/2/2020 4:44 PM, Jason Cobb wrote: > On 3/2/20 7:23 PM, Kerim Aydin wrote: >> The below CFJ is 3818. I assign it to Jason. >> >> status: https://faculty.washington.edu/kerim/nomic/cases/#3818 >> >> === CFJ 3818 === >> >> Rance's master switch is set to Agora. >> >> == >> >> Caller:Falsifian >> >> Judge: Jason >> >> == > > > Immediate thoughts: > > FALSE per caller. However, I can also see an argument that Rance's > Master was indeterminate because I performed a conditional action based > on whether there was a zombie auction. At the time, it was not widely > known whether there was a zombie auction; is that enough to make the > value of the switch indeterminate? Or is it enough that the rules and > messages were "reasonably available", which would (theoretically, at > least) allow determining whether the zombie auction existed, to prevent > Rance's Master being indeterminate. I think "FALSE per caller" is right here. While I can't point to precedents that deal with this explicitly, we've usually allowed for "interpretive" uncertainty in conditionals if the uncertainty is a clear-cut binary decision - e.g. if the situation is "If CFJ X is found TRUE, then Y clearly works, but if it's found FALSE, Y clearly fails", then conditionals based on "If Y..." are generally acceptable while waiting for the CFJ result. One way to look at it: as per R. Lee's judgement on Gaelan's N+1 bid in CFJ 3819, the above sort of conditional is "clearly specified" in terms of the two potential by-announcement actions and the conditions to choose between them, and the conditional is "platonically retroactively determined" once the CFJ is delivered. -G.
Re: DIS: Re: OFF: [Arbitor] CFJ 3818 Assigned to Jason
Oh okay, there is no zombie auction per CFJ 1817, so yes, false per caller On Tue, Mar 3, 2020 at 11:58 AM Rebecca wrote: > I always prefer an interpretation that the rules and game state are fixed > clearly and intractably at all times, and it is only our failure that > prevents us from having knowledge of them. Anyway, these conditionals, I > think, are the most strongly supported by game custom. The "if this exists, > I do it" conditional is frankly necessary for us to play this game, mostly. > > On Tue, Mar 3, 2020 at 11:45 AM Jason Cobb via agora-discussion < > agora-discussion@agoranomic.org> wrote: > >> On 3/2/20 7:23 PM, Kerim Aydin via agora-official wrote: >> > The below CFJ is 3818. I assign it to Jason. >> > >> > status: https://faculty.washington.edu/kerim/nomic/cases/#3818 >> > >> > === CFJ 3818 >> === >> > >> > Rance's master switch is set to Agora. >> > >> > >> == >> > >> > Caller:Falsifian >> > >> > Judge: Jason >> > >> > >> == >> >> >> Immediate thoughts: >> >> FALSE per caller. However, I can also see an argument that Rance's >> Master was indeterminate because I performed a conditional action based >> on whether there was a zombie auction. At the time, it was not widely >> known whether there was a zombie auction; is that enough to make the >> value of the switch indeterminate? Or is it enough that the rules and >> messages were "reasonably available", which would (theoretically, at >> least) allow determining whether the zombie auction existed, to prevent >> Rance's Master being indeterminate. >> >> -- >> Jason Cobb >> >> > > -- > From R. Lee > -- >From R. Lee
Re: DIS: Re: OFF: [Arbitor] CFJ 3818 Assigned to Jason
I always prefer an interpretation that the rules and game state are fixed clearly and intractably at all times, and it is only our failure that prevents us from having knowledge of them. Anyway, these conditionals, I think, are the most strongly supported by game custom. The "if this exists, I do it" conditional is frankly necessary for us to play this game, mostly. On Tue, Mar 3, 2020 at 11:45 AM Jason Cobb via agora-discussion < agora-discussion@agoranomic.org> wrote: > On 3/2/20 7:23 PM, Kerim Aydin via agora-official wrote: > > The below CFJ is 3818. I assign it to Jason. > > > > status: https://faculty.washington.edu/kerim/nomic/cases/#3818 > > > > === CFJ 3818 > === > > > > Rance's master switch is set to Agora. > > > > > == > > > > Caller:Falsifian > > > > Judge: Jason > > > > > == > > > Immediate thoughts: > > FALSE per caller. However, I can also see an argument that Rance's > Master was indeterminate because I performed a conditional action based > on whether there was a zombie auction. At the time, it was not widely > known whether there was a zombie auction; is that enough to make the > value of the switch indeterminate? Or is it enough that the rules and > messages were "reasonably available", which would (theoretically, at > least) allow determining whether the zombie auction existed, to prevent > Rance's Master being indeterminate. > > -- > Jason Cobb > > -- >From R. Lee
DIS: Re: OFF: [Arbitor] CFJ 3818 Assigned to Jason
On 3/2/20 7:23 PM, Kerim Aydin via agora-official wrote: > The below CFJ is 3818. I assign it to Jason. > > status: https://faculty.washington.edu/kerim/nomic/cases/#3818 > > === CFJ 3818 === > > Rance's master switch is set to Agora. > > == > > Caller:Falsifian > > Judge: Jason > > == Immediate thoughts: FALSE per caller. However, I can also see an argument that Rance's Master was indeterminate because I performed a conditional action based on whether there was a zombie auction. At the time, it was not widely known whether there was a zombie auction; is that enough to make the value of the switch indeterminate? Or is it enough that the rules and messages were "reasonably available", which would (theoretically, at least) allow determining whether the zombie auction existed, to prevent Rance's Master being indeterminate. -- Jason Cobb
