Re: DIS: Thesis Question for 4st

[Kerim Aydin via agora-discussion]

On Sat, Feb 11, 2023 at 5:23 PM Forest Sweeney via agora-discussion
 wrote:
>
> On Sat, Feb 11, 2023, 3:27 PM nix via agora-discussion <
> agora-discussion@agoranomic.org> wrote:
>
> > On 2/11/23 15:06, nix via agora-business wrote:
> > > Below is the thesis. 4st has submitted it in the hopes of receiving a
> > ANA.
> >
> > Before giving a verdict, I want some context for the submission. In
> > Discord 4st argued anything can be art. I agree largely. But I think it
> > needs context. This isn't R. Mutt and the Independents, that's already
> > been played out. Anything CAN be art, but tell me why *this* is art
> > worthy of a degree, in a way that doesn't make every single proposal
> > worthy of a degree.
> >
> > --
> > nix
>
> This proposal is worthy of a degree for a few reasons:
> [snip]

Your list reads, to me, like reasons that your text is worthy of being
considered as a good, fun, and creative proposal, and possibly worth
voting for.  It does not give me reason to think of it as a thesis.
There's been many many proposals that have been longer, taken more
effort, had more made-up words etc. (stones, birds, horses, and
similar in the past were all imitative works of art following a
metaphor).  Without denigrating yours at all, why wouldn't we award
all of those theses as well if we awarded it to you, just because you
asked for it?  (In other words, I'm not wholly sure you spoke to
artistic merit?)

> (I have only seen one other thesis worthy of a degree, and one thesis that
> doesn't, so far. and the thesis that was worthy was a Doctorate.)

Arts degrees are relatively new, and rather different in structure
than all others, so there's not many in the past for comparison.  I
can't remember any ANA failures (could be wrong?  didn't see any on a
quick search).  There were two successful ANAs:

Cuddlebeam's is available here:
https://imgur.com/a/VDAQaae

And Aspen's is available below.
https://mailman.agoranomic.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/agora-business/2020-July/043923.html

Insomuch as "length" is any indicator of artistic effort, I will
wholly agree that yours and Aspen's are in the same ballpark for an
ANA.

-G.

Re: DIS: Thesis Question for 4st

[Forest Sweeney via agora-discussion]

On Sat, Feb 11, 2023, 3:27 PM nix via agora-discussion <
agora-discussion@agoranomic.org> wrote:

> On 2/11/23 15:06, nix via agora-business wrote:
> > Below is the thesis. 4st has submitted it in the hopes of receiving a
> ANA.
>
> Before giving a verdict, I want some context for the submission. In
> Discord 4st argued anything can be art. I agree largely. But I think it
> needs context. This isn't R. Mutt and the Independents, that's already
> been played out. Anything CAN be art, but tell me why *this* is art
> worthy of a degree, in a way that doesn't make every single proposal
> worthy of a degree.
>
> --
> nix
> Herald, Collector
>


This proposal is worthy of a degree for a few reasons:
- it contains many made up words that do not really obfuscate the meaning
all that much, yet would produce interesting, complicated seeming gameplay.
- yet it is scammable by any office, and a cabal of 3, in a period of 3-4
weeks, for all cabal members that have offices
- it contains flavor text in a style that is neither old nor new nomic
(maybe it is a style that has been seen in nomic, but I doubt.)
- it has clear self-referential potential, which we don't see lately.
- it, unfortunately, contains at least one bug that prevent the intended
scam from working as I intended (however pobody's nerfect, however, does
this affect its value as art?)
- The office to track it would be able to do so without too much trouble
(except how more than one of the actions can happen weekly, thus it would
be very busy).

Mainly, most proposals do not use made up words, use the same verb for
different actions, or have self-referential potential, nor do they contain
flavor text as much as they used to.

(I have only seen one other thesis worthy of a degree, and one thesis that
doesn't, so far. and the thesis that was worthy was a Doctorate.)