Re: [akka-user] Can quarantine happen without remote actor creation or watching?

2016-02-24 Thread Akka Team 
Hi Daniel,

No, it shouldn't. DeathWatch and system message redelivery timeouts are the
triggers for Quarantine (or Cluster Down-ing)

-Endre

On Wed, Feb 24, 2016 at 5:53 PM, Daniel Armak  wrote:

> Hi,
>
> If I use akka-remoting (not cluster), and I don't send any PossiblyHarmful
> messages (so no remote actor creation or watching), can the association
> ever be quarantined?
>
> Thanks,
>
> --
> Daniel Armak
>
> --
> >> Read the docs: http://akka.io/docs/
> >> Check the FAQ:
> http://doc.akka.io/docs/akka/current/additional/faq.html
> >> Search the archives: https://groups.google.com/group/akka-user
> ---
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "Akka User List" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
> email to akka-user+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> To post to this group, send email to akka-user@googlegroups.com.
> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/akka-user.
> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>



-- 
Akka Team
Typesafe - Reactive apps on the JVM
Blog: letitcrash.com
Twitter: @akkateam

-- 
>>  Read the docs: http://akka.io/docs/
>>  Check the FAQ: 
>> http://doc.akka.io/docs/akka/current/additional/faq.html
>>  Search the archives: https://groups.google.com/group/akka-user
--- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Akka 
User List" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to akka-user+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to akka-user@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/akka-user.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Re: [akka-user] Can quarantine happen without remote actor creation or watching?

2016-02-24 Thread Konrad Malawski 
Yeah, for example if irrecoverable loss of system messages happens.
In general death watch on Actors using remoting can in failure scenarios (see 
above) lead to a Quarantine.

Note that Quarantine is irrecoverable, unlike "Unreachable" which is used in 
the Cluster.
Short answer: Use the Cluster – it's more resilient.

-- 
Cheers,
Konrad 'ktoso’ Malawski
Akka @ Lightbend

On 24 February 2016 at 17:53:16, Daniel Armak (danar...@gmail.com) wrote:

Hi,

If I use akka-remoting (not cluster), and I don't send any PossiblyHarmful 
messages (so no remote actor creation or watching), can the association ever be 
quarantined?

Thanks,

-- 
Daniel Armak 
--
>> Read the docs: http://akka.io/docs/
>> Check the FAQ: 
>> http://doc.akka.io/docs/akka/current/additional/faq.html
>> Search the archives: https://groups.google.com/group/akka-user
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Akka 
User List" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to akka-user+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to akka-user@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/akka-user.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

-- 
>>  Read the docs: http://akka.io/docs/
>>  Check the FAQ: 
>> http://doc.akka.io/docs/akka/current/additional/faq.html
>>  Search the archives: https://groups.google.com/group/akka-user
--- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Akka 
User List" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to akka-user+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to akka-user@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/akka-user.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Re: [akka-user] Can quarantine happen without remote actor creation or watching?

2016-02-24 Thread Daniel Armak 
Hi Konrad,

Your answer doesn't match the one Endre gave. Can quarantine happen if the
cluster, remote actor creation, and remote death watch are *not* used?

I'm asking because I'm considering using akka-remoting as a point-to-point
RPC layer, in a codebase that doesn't use actors, where the Cluster would
be inappropriate.

Thanks,

Daniel Armak

On Wed, Feb 24, 2016 at 6:55 PM, Konrad Malawski 
wrote:

> Yeah, for example if irrecoverable loss of system messages happens.
> In general death watch on Actors using remoting can in failure scenarios
> (see above) lead to a Quarantine.
>
> Note that Quarantine is irrecoverable, unlike "Unreachable" which is used
> in the Cluster.
> Short answer: Use the Cluster – it's more resilient.
>
> --
> Cheers,
> Konrad 'ktoso’ Malawski
> Akka  @ Lightbend 
> 
>
> On 24 February 2016 at 17:53:16, Daniel Armak (danar...@gmail.com) wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> If I use akka-remoting (not cluster), and I don't send any PossiblyHarmful
> messages (so no remote actor creation or watching), can the association
> ever be quarantined?
>
> Thanks,
>
> --
> Daniel Armak
> --
> >> Read the docs: http://akka.io/docs/
> >> Check the FAQ:
> http://doc.akka.io/docs/akka/current/additional/faq.html
> >> Search the archives: https://groups.google.com/group/akka-user
> ---
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "Akka User List" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
> email to akka-user+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> To post to this group, send email to akka-user@googlegroups.com.
> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/akka-user.
> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>
>

-- 
>>  Read the docs: http://akka.io/docs/
>>  Check the FAQ: 
>> http://doc.akka.io/docs/akka/current/additional/faq.html
>>  Search the archives: https://groups.google.com/group/akka-user
--- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Akka 
User List" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to akka-user+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to akka-user@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/akka-user.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Re: [akka-user] Can quarantine happen without remote actor creation or watching?

2016-02-24 Thread kt...@lightbend.com 
I didn't notice the title of your email :-)
It does match Endre's reply – system message loss causes quarantine => no watch 
=> no heartbeating (sys messages) => no quarantine :-)

-- 
Cheers,
Konrad 'ktoso’ Malawski
Akka @ Lightbend

On 24 February 2016 at 18:03:20, Daniel Armak (danar...@gmail.com) wrote:

Hi Konrad, 

Your answer doesn't match the one Endre gave. Can quarantine happen if the 
cluster, remote actor creation, and remote death watch are not used? 

I'm asking because I'm considering using akka-remoting as a point-to-point RPC 
layer, in a codebase that doesn't use actors, where the Cluster would be 
inappropriate.

Thanks,

Daniel Armak

On Wed, Feb 24, 2016 at 6:55 PM, Konrad Malawski  wrote:
Yeah, for example if irrecoverable loss of system messages happens.
In general death watch on Actors using remoting can in failure scenarios (see 
above) lead to a Quarantine.

Note that Quarantine is irrecoverable, unlike "Unreachable" which is used in 
the Cluster.
Short answer: Use the Cluster – it's more resilient.

-- 
Cheers,
Konrad 'ktoso’ Malawski
Akka @ Lightbend

On 24 February 2016 at 17:53:16, Daniel Armak (danar...@gmail.com) wrote:

Hi,

If I use akka-remoting (not cluster), and I don't send any PossiblyHarmful 
messages (so no remote actor creation or watching), can the association ever be 
quarantined?

Thanks,

-- 
Daniel Armak 
--
>> Read the docs: http://akka.io/docs/
>> Check the FAQ: 
>> http://doc.akka.io/docs/akka/current/additional/faq.html
>> Search the archives: https://groups.google.com/group/akka-user
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Akka 
User List" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to akka-user+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to akka-user@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/akka-user.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

-- 
>>  Read the docs: http://akka.io/docs/
>>  Check the FAQ: 
>> http://doc.akka.io/docs/akka/current/additional/faq.html
>>  Search the archives: https://groups.google.com/group/akka-user
--- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Akka 
User List" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to akka-user+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to akka-user@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/akka-user.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Re: [akka-user] Can quarantine happen without remote actor creation or watching?

2016-02-24 Thread Akka Team 
Hi Daniel,

On Wed, Feb 24, 2016 at 6:03 PM, Daniel Armak  wrote:

> Hi Konrad,
>
> Your answer doesn't match the one Endre gave. Can quarantine happen if the
> cluster, remote actor creation, and remote death watch are *not* used?
>

No, it does not contradict it. Cluster does have a more fine-grained
approach where there is an Unreachable state which is recoverable. Yes,
Quarantine does happen in cluster, things that have been removed cannot
come back.


>
> I'm asking because I'm considering using akka-remoting as a point-to-point
> RPC layer, in a codebase that doesn't use actors, where the Cluster would
> be inappropriate.
>

Quarantine basically exists to prevent inconsistent state where actors on
the other system are reported dead and then would suddenly come back after
a network split. Instead the system is isolated as soon as it has been
considered dead. If you don't use deathwach or remote deployment there
won't be Quarantine. That said, even if you use above features you can set
a very lenient failure detector. For example if your system Quarantines the
other one after 1 hour of heartbeat silence then you have *much worse*
problems than the Quarantine state.

-Endre


>
> Thanks,
>
> Daniel Armak
>
> On Wed, Feb 24, 2016 at 6:55 PM, Konrad Malawski 
> wrote:
>
>> Yeah, for example if irrecoverable loss of system messages happens.
>> In general death watch on Actors using remoting can in failure scenarios
>> (see above) lead to a Quarantine.
>>
>> Note that Quarantine is irrecoverable, unlike "Unreachable" which is used
>> in the Cluster.
>> Short answer: Use the Cluster – it's more resilient.
>>
>> --
>> Cheers,
>> Konrad 'ktoso’ Malawski
>> Akka  @ Lightbend 
>> 
>>
>> On 24 February 2016 at 17:53:16, Daniel Armak (danar...@gmail.com) wrote:
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>> If I use akka-remoting (not cluster), and I don't send any
>> PossiblyHarmful messages (so no remote actor creation or watching), can the
>> association ever be quarantined?
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> --
>> Daniel Armak
>> --
>> >> Read the docs: http://akka.io/docs/
>> >> Check the FAQ:
>> http://doc.akka.io/docs/akka/current/additional/faq.html
>> >> Search the archives: https://groups.google.com/group/akka-user
>> ---
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
>> "Akka User List" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
>> email to akka-user+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
>> To post to this group, send email to akka-user@googlegroups.com.
>> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/akka-user.
>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>>
>>
> --
> >> Read the docs: http://akka.io/docs/
> >> Check the FAQ:
> http://doc.akka.io/docs/akka/current/additional/faq.html
> >> Search the archives: https://groups.google.com/group/akka-user
> ---
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "Akka User List" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
> email to akka-user+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> To post to this group, send email to akka-user@googlegroups.com.
> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/akka-user.
> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>



-- 
Akka Team
Typesafe - Reactive apps on the JVM
Blog: letitcrash.com
Twitter: @akkateam

-- 
>>  Read the docs: http://akka.io/docs/
>>  Check the FAQ: 
>> http://doc.akka.io/docs/akka/current/additional/faq.html
>>  Search the archives: https://groups.google.com/group/akka-user
--- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Akka 
User List" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to akka-user+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to akka-user@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/akka-user.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.