Re: About i386 support

[Thomas Hochstein]

Victor Gamper wrote:

> Is there a reason to do this? If so, what would be required to keep
> the i386 version, seeing as it still is important and used?

Re: EPSON ET M 1120 new printer: If You can read this, you are using the wrong driver

[Thomas Hochstein]

Greg Wooledge wrote:

> If you still have issues with your printer, I strongly advise you to ask
> on the German mailing list, or whichever mailing list speaks your primary
> language.  I don't think anyone on this list is interested in continuing
> to offer help to you.

They started on the German mailing list, about a year ago ...

Re: Mailing list usage questions

[Thomas Hochstein]

Tom Furie wrote:

> It occurs to me that I'm not even aware of what list management
> software these lists are managed with anymore.

|  All original Debian mailing lists are run on a special server, using an
|  automatic mail processing software called SmartList. 


-thh

Re: No /

[Thomas Hochstein]

Tom Furie wrote:

> On Tue, Mar 07, 2023 at 05:04:57PM -0600, David Wright wrote:
>> https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2023/03/msg00064.html
> 
> Was the /dev/sdc mentioned there the USB drive?

Obviously not.

Re: thanks.debian.net

[Thomas Hochstein]

Paulo Henrique de Lima Santana schrieb:

> Does anyone have information about the website thanks.debian.net?
> 
> Its owner, if we can run it again, and so on.

 says
| thanksMaximiliano Curia (maxy)
[...]
| Last Modified: Sat, May 26 00:37:36 UTC 2012 

 says
| ldapsearch can search the Debian LDAP tree to find the owner of a particular 
domain:
| 
| $ ldapsearch -u -x -H ldap://db.debian.org -b dc=debian,dc=org 
dnsZoneEntry=foo*

-thh

Re: Permanent email address?

[Thomas Hochstein]

rhkra...@gmail.com schrieb:

> My understanding is that the (only?) way to do get such a permanent address 
> is 
> to have my own domain and assign an email address in that domain to me?

That is correct.

> Also, iiuc, I cannot move my gmail address to some other provider?

Of course not.

-thh

Re: General Resolution: Change the resolution process: results

[Thomas Hochstein]

Wouter Verhelst schrieb:

> In that case, the problem is that the links to the tally sheet still
> point to the dummy sheet; if you go to the vote's page, then click on
> the "statistics" link, and next on the "tally sheet" one, you get the
> dummy tally sheet.

I don't (neither yesterday nor today).

At , the "tally
sheet" link in the third sentence links to the correct tally sheet.

If you follow the link in the first sentence to the statistics page at
, the "tally sheet" link
there also links to the correct tally sheet.

Maybe you have some stale content cached somewhere?

Re: User group "users"

[Thomas Hochstein]

Roberto C. Sánchez schrieb:

>>> New users have gid 100 set as their primary group by default.  So, new
>>> users are members of the group without having to be added to the group
>>> in /etc/groups.

That depends on your configuration.

| # /etc/adduser.conf: `adduser' configuration.
| # See adduser(8) and adduser.conf(5) for full documentation.
[...]
| # The USERGROUPS variable can be either "yes" or "no".  If "yes" each
| # created user will be given their own group to use as a default.  If
| # "no", each created user will be placed in the group whose gid is
| # USERS_GID (see below).
| USERGROUPS=yes
| 
| # If USERGROUPS is "no", then USERS_GID should be the GID of the group
| # `users' (or the equivalent group) on your system.
| USERS_GID=100

> Quite right.  It seems that I probably made that change a very long time
> ago, long enough ago so that it just seemed like the standard
> configuration to me.

>From :
|  Debian has been using (creating) user private groups by default almost
|  from the beginning. However, UPGs where not fully enabled on newly
|  installed systems since release 2.2., because the central umask
|  adjustment for UPGs, as configured in /etc/login.defs, was broken with
|  the inclusion of PAM. This feature was only reintroduced with
|  libpam-umask in release 6.0 (Squeeze). 

-thh

Re: cooperative.co.uk has address 127.0.0.1

[Thomas Hochstein]

Richmond schrieb:

> Why do I see this?
> 
> host cooperative.co.uk
> cooperative.co.uk has address 127.0.0.1

Because that's the IP that is associated with that name in the DNS.

There may be multiple reasons for that; one is to effectively block all requests
without straining the host that name had been associated with before.

Re: Usenet access.

[Thomas Hochstein]

pe...@easthope.ca schrieb:

> Can anyone suggest an alternative to Google Groups for access to 
> sci.electronics.repair.

 - free
(private one-man show, but very reliable)

 - 10 EUR/year (about 11,40 $)
(offered by the Computer Centre of the Free University of Berlin)

[Mailman-Users] Re: Elimination of Digest

[Thomas Hochstein]

David Andrews schrieb:

> I am running Mailman 2.1.35, cPanel. I have an existing list with 
> both regular and digest delivery set up. If I turn off the digest, 
> what happens to those subscribers who selected digest? are they 
> deleted, or is their mode changed to regular delivery?

Neither. They keep being subscribed just for digests; as no digests are
send, they get no messages at all.
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Re: Privacy and defamation of character on Debian public forums

[Thomas Hochstein]

Joe Pfeiffer schrieb:

> Bug number?

994899

Re: How to avoid systemd/udev unpredictable NIC names

[Thomas Hochstein]

IL Ka schrieb:

> > It's fine on systems that have 0-1 ethernet and 0-1 wireless NICs.
> 
> Isn't that what the topic starter asked about?:)

I don't think so:
| I simply have eth0 for the internal network and eth1 for
| my external network to the DSL router.

That looks like two ethernet NICs.

[Mailman-Users] Re: Web requests with garbage at the end of the list name

[Thomas Hochstein]

Jon Baron wrote:

>> Aug 18 15:10:16 2021 (31166) Hostile listname: 
>> listname=midrange-l__;!!NVq9dfhzMyHqTw!wLl-dt8zxsuQuoyojs-UYmT_d65WZroClHaYGfHduJ561eT0B7baTQV1ogZzQKRRsw$:
>>  
>> remote=52.34.76.65
>> 
>> Basically, the list name is correct, but the added "__;!NV..." makes it 
>> invalid.
>
> But I don't understand what you mean by "hostile
> listname" being "correct".

"midrange-l" is a correct name of an existing list.

"midrange-l__;!!NVq9dfhzMyHqTw!wLl-dt8zxsuQuoyojs-UYmT_d65WZroClHaYGfHduJ561eT0B7baTQV1ogZzQKRRsw$"
is not.

-thh
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Re: runc CVEs in docker.io

[Thomas Hochstein]

Gareth Evans schrieb:

> Given that these are all fixed in Bullseye (and at least the grave
> apt-listbugs issue has been fixed in eg Ubuntu since March 2020 [1])
> why not also Buster?
[...]
> According to 
> 
> https://tracker.debian.org/pkg/runc
> 
> there are 3 open security issues in (Stretch and) Buster

Most are marked "vulnerable (no DSA)". According to
 and
,
that may mean that minor issues will be fixed with a point update or
"are simply not worth fixing in a stable release".

CVE-2021-30465 is scheduled to get a security update for buster.

> (though I
> imagine Debian's support for Stretch has ended with EOL in 2020?) -

Stretch will get security support via the Debian LTS project
() until the end of June, 2022.

Debian Jessie still gets some security support via the Debian ELTS
project () for the same time
period. Most probably the same will happen for Stretch after LTS
support has ended.

-thh

Re: HOW ' s

[Thomas Hochstein]

Gunnar Gervin schrieb:

> Subject: HOW ' s

Please use a subject that describes your problem. "HOW's" ist not
better than "(unknown)" or "/&%!"§%&/!"%/&§".

> gone @ $ € (wrong keyboard)

Please try do describe your problem so that it's easy to understand.

Does your keyboard miss keys?
Did you change your keyboard and connect a wrong one?
I don't think so.

> How it happened:
> During Debian installation, I chose a linux version 4.19.0-17-686-pae from
> a mirror.

Your choice of Linux kernel should not have any significance for your
keyboard or locale.

> I lost (nb.UTF-8 or similar) setup (Norwegian bokmål) in
> Macintosh-no-dead-keys.

Please try do describe your problem so that it's easy to understand.
()

What did you "lose" where?
What did you expect, and what did you get?
What has changed?

Do you miss the nb.UTF-8 locale? Try "dpkg-reconfigure locales" as
root and select that locale.

> I couldn't find a list of available keyboards in Gnome desktop, then
> recalled I found it in Xfce once before (hopefully in Debian)

It does not seem like a good idea to deinstall Gnome just because you
might recall having found "keyboards" sowewhere else.

> so I wrote in
> Terminal:
> su
> root password
> # apt install task-xfce-desktop
> then tried to remove the Gnome desktop, wrote:
> # apt remove task-gnome-desktop
> Terminal responded but nothing happened; Gnome not removed, Xfce not
> visible.

It seems reasonable that you won't see changes without logging out and
in again.

> I can learn to use the Gnome desktop, but I really need to change this
> keyboard.

Than, perhaps, you should start with learning how to change the
"keyboard"?

-thh

Re: [mailop] SMTP AUTH harassment

[Thomas Hochstein via mailop]

Slavko wrote:

> Please, i want ask others if are these (mostly) Brasil attempts know to
> others too or am i "special" target?

Personal server here too.

| root@moria # grep 'Incorrect authentication data' /var/log/exim4/mainlog.1 | 
wc -l 
| 1026

So, a bit more than 1.000 attempts yesterday.

> The IP
> is only rarely used more than once, and as one can see, the IP networks
> and AS numbers doesn't get high counts too (with some exceptions which
> i blocked manually).

Same here, fail2ban doesn't help that much.

> I do not know what
> accounts/passwords they are trying, as real AUTH doesn't happen.

Most try "postmaster" at domains the host is MX for, others try
harvested addresses from domains the host is MX for (with and without
domain), and yet others try addresses I know that have no obvious
connection to that host. None of those has an STMP-Auth password, so
no harm done.

-thh
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Re: Asking DPL to shorten Discussion Period for rms-open-letter

[Thomas Hochstein]

M dB wrote:

> Are we discussing a handful of people leaving
> volunteer positions? Yes. Are we discussing ruining their lives? No.
[...]
> Nobody who wants rms off the FSF board is trying to destroy
> his life

I may be wrong, but it looks like Richard Stallman has dedicated his
life (or at least a large part of it) to (formerly) write and (now
mostly) campaign for free software.

After stepping "back from the free software, tech ethics, digital
rights, and tech communities" (what he is asked to do and the open
letter seems to campaign for), there does not seem to remain much of
his current life.

-thh

Re: Should the project hire one or two persons to help the DPL?

[Thomas Hochstein]

gregor herrmann schrieb:

> I also know from personal experience in (non-software) volunteer
> organizations, and a friend of mine has written her diploma thesis on
> this topic researching yet another NGO, that a setup with a volunteer
> board/committee/chairperson/president and employed
> executives/secretaries is difficult, as the latters are the one
> spending more time, collecting more information, becoming the
> information centre, … over time, and hereby either become the de
> facto power centre or at least causing struggles or fights over who
> actually controls the whole thing.

Perhaps that could be avoided by limiting the term of employed staff;
not necessarily to just one year, but to two, three or four years.

-thh

Re: Older Release(s) Iso(s)

[Thomas Hochstein]

PK - Panos Katertziadis schrieb:

> All you wrote is correct. However that was the case for many-many years:
> the iso files were there. 

Was that so?

 currently says:
|  By default, for each release here we keep all the images in jigdo
|  format to save on space and download times. We also often keep the
|  ISO images for the last release of each series.

That is true; the ISO images for 9.13.0, the last release of the 9.x
series, are present.

The text above is unchanged since at least 2011 (checked via Wayback
Machine), so I wonder if the procedure really has changed.

-thh

[Mailman-Developers] Re: Hyperkitty's ability to build a thread

[Thomas Hochstein]

Danil Smirnov schrieb:

> I wonder if Hyperkitty is able to leverage some other method to combine the
> thread correctly in this case?

There is no way to display a thread without threading information (in
In-Reply-To: or References: headers). One can try to match by Subject
and/or Date, but that is a heuristic bound to fail.

The "correct" way would be to fix the client that is erroneously [1]
missing or deleting threading headers.

-thh

[1] Violating a SHOULD in RFC 5322, 3.6.4.
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Re: [mailop] How does one operate mailman3 with correct From & Sender Address - like this list?

[Thomas Hochstein via mailop]

I wrote:

> On 2021-02-04 11:32, "Stefan Bauer via mailop" wrote:
> 
>> I'm planning to operate a mailman list and want to make sure, that Reply-To 
>> is untouched (seems to be default on MM3) and From is list-address and 
>> Sender is list-bounce address.
> 
> For all mails:

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Re: [mailop] How does one operate mailman3 with correct From & Sender Address - like this list?

[Thomas Hochstein via mailop]

On 2021-02-04 11:32, "Stefan Bauer via mailop" wrote:

> I'm planning to operate a mailman list and want to make sure, that Reply-To 
> is untouched (seems to be default on MM3) and From is list-address and Sender 
> is list-bounce address.

For all mails: 

General Options 

from_is_list: "Munge From" 

Only for mails from domains with a DMARC policy: 

Privacy options... --> Sender filters 

dmarc_moderation_action: "Munge From"

(optionally) dmarc_quarantine_moderation_action: "Yes"

(optionally) dmarc_none_moderation_action: "Yes" 

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[Mailman-Developers] Re: Footer settings question: how common is dash-dash-space?

[Thomas Hochstein]

"Stephen J. Turnbull" wrote:

> Mark Sapiro writes:
> 
>  > According to  that list
>  > is on Mailman 2.1.29. The default message footer separator was changed
>  > from "___" to "-- " as of
>  > Mailman 2.1.24
> 
> Why did we do that?

Because it makes sense. The message footer is identical to a signature
in every respect: a standardized attachment to the actual message with
no direct content reference to it, which you want to be able to hide
and which should be suppressed in a reply. It doesn't matter if such a
footer or signature is added by the poster, by the mail client or
server (for example in a corporate setting) or by a mailing list
manager.

> It's not obvious to me that that was a good idea.  Maybe it's better
> to distinguish the list's "signature" from a poster's signature by
> using a different separator.

Why?

-thh
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Re: why was bitcoin package removed from testing?

[Thomas Hochstein]

Jonas Smedegaard wrote:

> The bitcoin package was removed from testing some hours ago - 
> https://tracker.debian.org/news/1225530/bitcoin-removed-from-testing/ 
> references bug#718272 but that bug is closed.
>
> If the removal accidental (e.g. cause by bug closure flip-flop, then 
> please consider correcting that by fast-trackign a re-acceptance.

The remove seems to be triggered by a manual relase team hint, as
shown on
,
refering to .

-thh

Re: [mailop] Google and Spam detection

[Thomas Hochstein via mailop]

Am 2020-07-24 10:54 Klaus Ethgen via mailop wrote:


Recently, I heard often that my mails to friends on gmail
ended up in spam.


[...]


Is there any I can do to prevent google to hide the mails
from my friends?


In my experience, most problems concerning mail delivery
to Google disappear as soon as you deliver mail over ipv4
(instead of ipv6).

See

(German language only).

-thh

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[Mailman-checkins] [Merge] lp:~thochstein/mailman/german-translation into lp:mailman/2.1

[Thomas Hochstein]

Thomas Hochstein has proposed merging lp:~thochstein/mailman/german-translation 
into lp:mailman/2.1.

Requested reviews:
  Mailman Coders (mailman-coders)

For more details, see:
https://code.launchpad.net/~thochstein/mailman/german-translation/+merge/335798

Update German translation.

* Fixing 2 typos.
* Add missing commas, one missing hyphen and one missing full stop.
* Change wording (due to a hardcoded plural form).
-- 
Your team Mailman Checkins is subscribed to branch lp:mailman/2.1.
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Re: [Mailman-i18n] German Transalation - some fixes.

[Thomas Hochstein]

Am 06.01.2018 um 23:36 schrieb Mark Sapiro:

On 01/06/2018 01:04 PM, Thomas Hochstein wrote:

I am not quite sure what will be the next step, whether some of the
other German native speakers here will review the changes and who will
be able to merge them, but I thought to give it a try. :)

Thank you very much for helping to keep Mailman's German translation in
good shape.

Thank _you_ very much for all your work on Mailman!

The good news is you're essentially done. The last step is to go to your
branch on launchpad, click the "propose for merging" link, set the
target branch to ~mailman-coders/mailman/2.1, enter a description if
desired and "Propose Merge".

I'll take it from there.

Ha, that should be easy. :) Thanks again!

-thh

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[Merge] lp:~thochstein/mailman/german-translation into lp:mailman/2.1

[Thomas Hochstein]

Thomas Hochstein has proposed merging lp:~thochstein/mailman/german-translation 
into lp:mailman/2.1.

Requested reviews:
  Mailman Coders (mailman-coders)

For more details, see:
https://code.launchpad.net/~thochstein/mailman/german-translation/+merge/335798

Update German translation.

* Fixing 2 typos.
* Add missing commas, one missing hyphen and one missing full stop.
* Change wording (due to a hardcoded plural form).
-- 
Your team Mailman Coders is requested to review the proposed merge of 
lp:~thochstein/mailman/german-translation into lp:mailman/2.1.
=== modified file 'templates/de/listinfo.html'
--- templates/de/listinfo.html	2015-09-08 12:10:20 +
+++ templates/de/listinfo.html	2018-01-06 23:15:47 +
@@ -88,7 +88,7 @@
 Zufallspasswort generiert und Ihnen zugeschickt, sobald Sie Ihr
 Abonnement besttigt haben. Sie knnen sich Ihr Passwort
 jederzeit per E-Mail zuschicken lassen, wenn Sie weiter unten
-die Seite zum ndern Ihrer persnlichen Einstellungen aufrufen.
+die Seite zum ndern Ihrer persnlichen Einstellungen aufrufen.
 	 	
   
   

=== modified file 'templates/de/options.html'
--- templates/de/options.html	2016-05-12 18:54:42 +
+++ templates/de/options.html	2018-01-06 23:15:47 +
@@ -36,12 +36,12 @@
 
 nderung der Abonnementsinformation fr die Liste 
 	
-Sie knnen die Adresse unter der Sie die Liste
-beziehen ndern, indem Sie die neue Adresse in die Felder unten
+Sie knnen die Adresse, unter der Sie die Liste
+beziehen, ndern, indem Sie die neue Adresse in die Felder unten
 eintragen. Hinweis: An die neue Adresse wird eine
-Besttigungs-E-Mail geschickt und die nderung muss; besttigt werden,
+Besttigungs-E-Mail geschickt und die nderung muss besttigt werden,
 bevor sie aktiv wird.
-Besttigungs-E-Mails verfallen nach ca. .
+Besttigungs-E-Mails bleiben ca.  gltig.
 
 Ebenso knnen Sie Ihren Anzeigenamen setzen oder ndern (z.B. Paul Schmidt).
 
@@ -149,17 +149,17 @@
 Bitte beachten Sie, dass einige der Optionen eine "Global ndern"-Checkbox
 besitzen. Deren Ankreuzen bewirkt, dass die nderungen fr
 jede von Ihnen abonnierte Mailingliste auf  vorgenommen werden.
-Klicken Sie auf Andere Abonnements auflisten um zu sehen, welche
+Klicken Sie auf Andere Abonnements auflisten, um zu sehen, welche
 weitern Abonnement Sie haben.
 
 
 
 
 Mailzustellung
-Setzen Sie diese Option auf An um Nachrichten von der
+Setzen Sie diese Option auf An, um Nachrichten von der
 Liste zu empfangen.
-Setzen Sie diese Option auf Aus um keine Nachrichten
-von der Liste zu empfangen (z.B. weil Sie im Urlaub sind)
+Setzen Sie diese Option auf Aus, um keine Nachrichten
+von der Liste zu empfangen (z.B. weil Sie im Urlaub sind).
 	Wenn Sie die Mailzustellung ausstellen, vergessen Sie nicht, diese
 nach Ihrem Urlaub wieder anzustellen!
 
@@ -182,7 +182,7 @@
 
 
 MIME- oder Klartext-Zusammenfassungen?
-Generell sind MIME Zusammenfassungen bevorzugt und empfohlen, aber
+Generell sind MIME-Zusammenfassungen bevorzugt und empfohlen, aber
 falls Sie ein Problem damit haben, diese zu lesen, knnen Sie hier
 auf Klartext-Zusammenfassungen umsteigen.
 
@@ -202,7 +202,7 @@
 
 
 
-Besttigunsmail wenn Sie E-Mail an die Liste schicken?
+Besttigungsmail, wenn Sie E-Mail an die Liste schicken?
 
 Nein
 Ja
@@ -225,7 +225,7 @@
 In der Liste der Abonnenten unsichtbar machen?
 Wenn sich jemand die Mitglieder der Liste anzeigen lsst, wird Ihre
 E-Mail-Adresse normalerweise angezeigt (in einer leicht modifizierten
-Art und Weise um es Adresssammlern nicht zu leicht zu machen).
+Art und Weise, um es Adresssammlern nicht zu leicht zu machen).
 Wenn Sie wnschen, dass Ihre Adresse nicht gezeigt wird, whlen Sie
 hier bitte Ja.
 
@@ -259,8 +259,8 @@
 Mchten Sie Nachrichten erhalten, auf die kein Themen-Filter
 "passt"?
 
-Diese Option hat nur Auswirkungen wenn Sie oben mindestens
-ein Thema angegeben haben. Sie gibt an wie die
+Diese Option hat nur Auswirkungen, wenn Sie oben mindestens
+ein Thema angegeben haben. Sie gibt an, wie die
 Standardzustellungsregel fr Nachrichten lautet, auf die
 kein Thema passt.
 Geben Sie hier Nein an, bedeutet dies, dass Sie

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[Mailman-i18n] German Transalation - some fixes.

[Thomas Hochstein]

Hi,

a happy new year to everybody here!

I'm a long time Mailman user, but didn't do any development or
translation work yet.

Now I'm trying to get some small fixes for the German translation of
Mailman 2.1 delivered - which doesn't turn out to be as easy as I
thought.

 refers to the list of
Mailman Language Champions on 
which has "Peer Heinlein " listed.
Unfortunately Peer told me he is no longer involved in Mailman
translation work and won't be able to help me.

Mirian Margiani - who did the last round of translations, AFAIS - told
me there is currently no "Language Champion" for the German
translation.

So I registered at Launchpad, installed bzr and pushed my changes to
the "lp:~thochstein/mailman/german-translation" branch

for review. (I hope I got it right - I use git, mostly, and have tried
SVN, but this is my first try at bzr.)

I am not quite sure what will be the next step, whether some of the
other German native speakers here will review the changes and who will
be able to merge them, but I thought to give it a try. :)

Regards,
-thh
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Re: Alioth: the future of mailing lists

[Thomas Hochstein]

Alexander Wirt wrote:

> As the Alioth system is not something that we as a project have the will
> and manpower to maintain in its current form, we held a sprint [sprint]
> last month in Hamburg, Germany,  and discussed options and the future of
> the several services currently provided by Alioth.

Thanks for thje update!

> [minutes] 
> https://wiki.debian.org/Sprints/2017/Alioth/MeetingMinutes/Mailinglist

It's

(plural form).

-thh

Bug#832265: suck: Stack smash if lockfile exists (pid_t cast to long *)

[Thomas Hochstein]

Same here. *sigh*

Bug#860336: parse error in Request.php

[Thomas Hochstein]

On 2017-08-12 20:07, I wrote:

I've attached a patch, but it would be better to switch to
HTTP/Request2, I think.


The previous patch removed one "&" too much.
Fixed patch attached.

-thh--- HTTP_Request-1.4.4/Request.php	2017-08-12 19:39:37.542731105 +0200
+++ HTTP_Request-1.4.4/Request.php.NEW	2017-08-13 12:29:21.912534035 +0200
@@ -409,7 +409,7 @@
 */
 function setURL($url)
 {
-$this->_url =  Net_URL($url, $this->_useBrackets);
+$this->_url = new Net_URL($url, $this->_useBrackets);
 
 if (!empty($this->_url->user) || !empty($this->_url->pass)) {
 $this->setBasicAuth($this->_url->user, $this->_url->pass);
@@ -733,7 +733,7 @@
 $err = null;
 } else {
 $this->_notify('connect');
-$this->_sock =& new Net_Socket();
+$this->_sock = new Net_Socket();
 $err = $this->_sock->connect($host, $port, null, $this->_timeout, $this->_socketOptions);
 }
 PEAR::isError($err) or $err = $this->_sock->write($this->_buildRequest());
@@ -746,7 +746,7 @@
 $this->_notify('sentRequest');
 
 // Read the response
-$this->_response =  HTTP_Response($this->_sock, $this->_listeners);
+$this->_response = new HTTP_Response($this->_sock, $this->_listeners);
 $err = $this->_response->process(
 $this->_saveBody && $saveBody,
 HTTP_REQUEST_METHOD_HEAD != $this->_method
@@ -791,7 +791,7 @@
 
 // Absolute URL
 if (preg_match('/^https?:\/\//i', $redirect)) {
-$this->_url =  Net_URL($redirect);
+$this->_url = new Net_URL($redirect);
 $this->addHeader('Host', $this->_generateHostHeader());
 // Absolute path
 } elseif ($redirect{0} == '/') {

Re: Bug#299007: Transitioning perms of /usr/local

[Thomas Hochstein]

Santiago Vila wrote:

> I wonder if we really want to do all that in 2017. The staff-writable
> /usr/local for a "sysadmin assistant" was an interesting idea twenty
> years ago. Today, we would give a sysadmin assistant an entire
> virtual machine to play with, and would probably not bother with this.

There seems to be at least another usecase for a staff-writable
/usr/local, see ian's message at
.

-thh

Bug#860336: parse error in Request.php

[Thomas Hochstein]

On Fri, 14 Apr 2017 20:20:05 +0300, Juha Heinanen wrote:
> When I try to open a web page implemented using PHP, I get error
> 
> [Fri Apr 14 20:04:15.147463 2017] [:error] [pid 977] [client ::1:48700] PHP 
> Parse error:  syntax error, unexpected 'new' (T_NEW) in 
> /usr/share/php/HTTP/Request.php on line 412
> 
> The offending line is here:
> 
> function setURL($url)
> {
> $this->_url =  Net_URL($url, $this->_useBrackets);
> 
> This page used to work on Jessie, but now fails on Stretch.

That is due to a backwards incompatible change in PHP 7.0, see
:
| The result of the new statement can no longer be
| assigned to a variable by reference:

I've attached a patch, but it would be better to switch to
HTTP/Request2, I think.

Regards,
-thh
--- HTTP_Request-1.4.4/Request.php	2017-08-12 19:39:37.542731105 +0200
+++ HTTP_Request-1.4.4/Request.php.NEW	2017-08-12 19:39:41.074815507 +0200
@@ -409,7 +409,7 @@
 */
 function setURL($url)
 {
-$this->_url =  Net_URL($url, $this->_useBrackets);
+$this->_url = new Net_URL($url, $this->_useBrackets);
 
 if (!empty($this->_url->user) || !empty($this->_url->pass)) {
 $this->setBasicAuth($this->_url->user, $this->_url->pass);
@@ -729,11 +729,11 @@
 if ($keepAlive && !empty($sockets[$sockKey]) &&
 !empty($sockets[$sockKey]->fp))
 {
-$this->_sock =& $sockets[$sockKey];
+$this->_sock = $sockets[$sockKey];
 $err = null;
 } else {
 $this->_notify('connect');
-$this->_sock =& new Net_Socket();
+$this->_sock = new Net_Socket();
 $err = $this->_sock->connect($host, $port, null, $this->_timeout, $this->_socketOptions);
 }
 PEAR::isError($err) or $err = $this->_sock->write($this->_buildRequest());
@@ -746,7 +746,7 @@
 $this->_notify('sentRequest');
 
 // Read the response
-$this->_response =  HTTP_Response($this->_sock, $this->_listeners);
+$this->_response = new HTTP_Response($this->_sock, $this->_listeners);
 $err = $this->_response->process(
 $this->_saveBody && $saveBody,
 HTTP_REQUEST_METHOD_HEAD != $this->_method
@@ -776,7 +776,7 @@
 $this->disconnect();
 // Store the connected socket in "static" property
 } elseif (empty($sockets[$sockKey]) || empty($sockets[$sockKey]->fp)) {
-$sockets[$sockKey] =& $this->_sock;
+$sockets[$sockKey] = $this->_sock;
 }
 
 // Check for redirection
@@ -791,7 +791,7 @@
 
 // Absolute URL
 if (preg_match('/^https?:\/\//i', $redirect)) {
-$this->_url =  Net_URL($redirect);
+$this->_url = new Net_URL($redirect);
 $this->addHeader('Host', $this->_generateHostHeader());
 // Absolute path
 } elseif ($redirect{0} == '/') {

Bug#846002: blends-tasks must not be priority:important (was Re: Bug#846002: Lowering severity)

[Thomas Hochstein]

Tollef Fog Heen wrote:

> As a data point: To me, as somebody who knows Debian reasonably well,
> I'd associate «standard» with the priority level, which would make me
> unlikely to want to choose that option, since it installs half the
> universe.  

I'm not a native speaker, but would replacing "standard" by "default"
help to disambiguate?

-thh

Bug#846002: blends-tasks must not be priority:important (was Re: Bug#846002: Lowering severity)

[Thomas Hochstein]

Tollef Fog Heen wrote:

> As a data point: To me, as somebody who knows Debian reasonably well,
> I'd associate «standard» with the priority level, which would make me
> unlikely to want to choose that option, since it installs half the
> universe.  

I'm not a native speaker, but would replacing "standard" by "default"
help to disambiguate?

-thh

Re: [Debconf-team] Getting the DC15 final report done (sprint: 2015-08-31 1900 UTC)

[Thomas Hochstein]

Siri Reiter wrote:

>> I have attached this one to the email and hope it is not too big. 
[...]
>> Please let me know if it has arrived safely!!
>
> The attachment didn't go through.  Attachments and lists don't work well
> together. 

It did, on the list.

-thh
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Re: About the recent DD retirements

[Thomas Hochstein]

Torsten Landschoff wrote:

 I think Debian lists are forwarded to UseNet 

Most lists are gated to linux.*, yes.

 but it is not as easy as
 years ago to get a good UseNet server.

Try
- news.individual.de
- news.eternal-september.org
or contact me at n...@szaf.org for reading access or a feed.

Regards,
-thh


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Re: NEW changes in stable-new

[Thomas Hochstein]

Did the sender of these automated mails change on purpose from a role
account:

| From: Debian FTP Masters ftpmas...@ftp-master.debian.org

to an address that seems to be local to franck:

 From: Archive Administrator d...@franck.debian.org

or was that an accident?

Regards,
-thh


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Re: [Debconf-team] debconf15-t...@lists.debian.org no longer needed?

[Thomas Hochstein]

Laura Arjona Reina wrote on 2014-12-02:

 I guess now the DebConf14 is over we can everybody subscribe/send to
 debconf-team@lists.debconf.org only?

 and maybe close the debconf15-t...@lists.debian.org list?

s/15/14/ ?

-thh
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Re: CoC / procedural abuse

[Thomas Hochstein]

Norbert Preining schrieb:

 On Mon, 08 Sep 2014, Don Armstrong wrote:
 This is by design; the people who make decisions in Debian are the
 people who do the work. 

 Wow, so you are telling me that I am not doing work?

You are doing *other* work. And where you are doing the work, you get
to decide how you do it.


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Bug#758906: tracker.debian.org: link to squeeze-lts source package is invalid

[Thomas Hochstein]

Paul Gevers elb...@debian.org:

 My package cacti has a release in old-lts. Under versions [1] there is a 
 link
 to [2], which gives the following error:
 two or more packages specified (cacti squeeze-lts).

 I don't know what (if it exist) the correct URL is.
[...]
 [2] http://packages.debian.org/source/squeeze-lts/cacti

The URL seems to be basically right, but packages.debian.org does not
parse it correctly, as it does not seem to know squeeze-lts is a
valid suite.

(http://packages.debian.org/source/squeeze/cacti ist working as
designed, as would
http://packages.debian.org/source/squeeze-backports/cacti, and
squeeze-lts is not shown as a valid suite to filter for.)

Regards,
-thh


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Bug#758906: tracker.debian.org: link to squeeze-lts source package is invalid

[Thomas Hochstein]

Paul Gevers elb...@debian.org:

 My package cacti has a release in old-lts. Under versions [1] there is a 
 link
 to [2], which gives the following error:
 two or more packages specified (cacti squeeze-lts).

 I don't know what (if it exist) the correct URL is.
[...]
 [2] http://packages.debian.org/source/squeeze-lts/cacti

The URL seems to be basically right, but packages.debian.org does not
parse it correctly, as it does not seem to know squeeze-lts is a
valid suite.

(http://packages.debian.org/source/squeeze/cacti ist working as
designed, as would
http://packages.debian.org/source/squeeze-backports/cacti, and
squeeze-lts is not shown as a valid suite to filter for.)

Regards,
-thh


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Re: Unteralterbach visual novel

[Thomas Hochstein]

Nils Dagsson Moskopp wrote:

 As far as I understand it, in Germany, for a text / recording / drawing
 to be a criminal matter, it must depict actual abuse – meaning a child
 has to be abused for the document to be created.

That's not quite correct.

Accoding to German law, it's a misdemeanour to
- distribute or
- to display or perform child pornography in public or to make it
  publicly accessible in any other way, as is
- producing, obtaining etc. it for such purposes.

Child pornography, in this context, means writing, sound or image
media, data storage, pictures and any other physical representations
of any sexual acts on, by or before the eyes of children, may they be
fictional or real.

It's legal to read, view and possess those representations, though, as
long as they are not depictions of actual and (fictional, but)
realistical abuse. Those pictures, films and videos are illegal even
to possess or try to procure possession of. 

 Quote: http://www.zeit.de/politik/deutschland/2013-06/kinderpornographie

That decision of the German Federal Court of Justice refers to the
possession of pornographic writings. They're illegal to distribute,
but not to possess.

Regards,
-thh


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Re: Possibly moving Debian services to a CDN

[Thomas Hochstein]

Craig Small schrieb:

 Interesting way they've stapled all the names together on the
 certificate too.

 I didn't know you could do that, 

See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SubjectAltName.

Regards,
-thh


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Re: How to get notified of new releases?

[Thomas Hochstein]

Robert Dailey schrieb:

 Are there any dedicated mailing lists for git releases, or RSS feeds?
 I am on Windows so I'd specifically be interested in notifications
 when new releases or preview binaries are released on the Windows
 platform. I'm constantly checking the website currently.

You may want to subscribe to msys...@googlegroups.com, which is
low-traffic.

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Bug#734362: phpmyadmin: Vcs-Svn / Vcs-Browser currently not accessible

[Thomas Hochstein]

Package: phpmyadmin
Version: 4:3.4.11.1-2
Severity: minor

Dear Maintainer,

the VCS namend in Vcs-Browser and Vcs-Svn is not accessible currently:

thh@thangorodrim:~$ svn checkout 
https://svn.kinkhorst.nl/svn/debian/phpmyadmin/trunk
svn: Could not open the requested SVN filesystem

lynx https://aphrodite.kinkhorst.nl/wsvn/
| Subversion Repositories debian

  
|   

  
|Error running this command: svn --non-interactive --config-dir /tmp list 
--xml 'file:srv/svn/debian/@'   

|Unable to open an ra_local session to URLbr /

  
|Unable to open repository 'file:///srv/svn/debian'br /   

  
|Berkeley DB error for filesystem '/srv/svn/debian/db' while opening 
environment:br /  

 
|br / 

  
|DB_RUNRECOVERY: Fatal error, run database recoverybr /   

  
|bdb: PANIC: fatal region error detected; run recovery  

  
|   

  
|Powered by WebSVN 2.3.3 and Subversion 1.6.17 ? XHTML  CSS

Regards,
-thh


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Bug#734364: phpmyadmin breaks on upgrade from squeeze to wheezy when using suphp with mod_php

[Thomas Hochstein]

Package: phpmyadmin
Version: 4:3.4.11.1-2
Severity: important
Tags: patch

Dear Maintainer,

when upgrading from oldstable (squeeze) to stable (wheezy), running both
suphp (for user-hosted applications) and mod_php (for debian packaged web
applications  like phpmyadmin et.al. in /usr/share/) on Apache 2.2.x,
phpmyadmin will break, probably due to configuration changes in
libapache2-mod-suphp and libapache2-mod-php5. The problem persists in
phpmyadmin-4:4.0.10-1, AFAIS.

As phpmyadmin breaks when upgrading in this configuration, I consider
this bug IMPORTANT; please feel free to downgrade it if you don't follow
my reasoning.

It may be that suphp is at fault; see
http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=727785 for another
possible fix. Please re-assign the bug accordingly if applicable.

Problem/Symptoms:
-
Apache will send the phpmyadmin source to the browser instead of parsing
the scripts.

Prolem Description:
---
When using suphp together with mod_php, suphp is disabled for debian
packaged applications in /etc/apache2/mods-available/suphp.conf:
| # By default, disable suPHP for debian packaged web applications as files
| # are owned by root and cannot be executed by suPHP because of min_uid.
| Directory /usr/share
| suPHP_Engine off
| /Directory

So phpmyadmin will happily run under mod_php in squeeze.

This dosn't work any longer in Wheezy.

AFAIS this is due to changes in handling of PHP files, namely by suphp.

Debian Squeeze:
+ /etc/apache2/mods-available/suphp.conf 
| IfModule mod_suphp.c
|   AddType application/x-httpd-suphp .php .php3 .php4 .php5 .phtml
|   suPHP_AddHandler application/x-httpd-suphp
| [...]
| /IfModule

+ /etc/apache2/mods-available/php5.conf 
| IfModule mod_php5.c
| FilesMatch \.ph(p3?|tml)$
|   SetHandler application/x-httpd-php
| /FilesMatch
| [...]
| /IfModule

Debian Wheezy:
+ /etc/apache2/mods-available/suphp.conf 
| IfModule mod_suphp.c
| FilesMatch \.ph(p3?|tml)$
| SetHandler application/x-httpd-suphp
| /FilesMatch
| suPHP_AddHandler application/x-httpd-suphp
| [...]
| /IfModule

+ /etc/apache2/mods-available/php5.conf 
| FilesMatch .+\.ph(p[345]?|t|tml)$
| SetHandler application/x-httpd-php
| /FilesMatch
| [...]

As /etc/apache2/mods-available/suphp.conf is parsed after
/etc/apache2/mods-available/php5.conf, the
SetHandler application/x-httpd-suphp directive will replace
SetHandler application/x-httpd-php, and as suphp is disabled for all
files in /usr/share by suPHP_Engine off, PHP scripts in
/usr/share/phpmyadmin won't be parsed any more.

Changing the suphp.conf back to its Squeeze version will fix that
problem, but may not be prudent, as I remember a lenghty discussion
concerning the correct handling of MIME types.

Suggested fix:
--
Add the mod_php configuration snippet from /etc/apache2/mods-
available/php5.conf to /etc/phpmyadmin/apache.conf as follows:
| # phpMyAdmin default Apache configuration
| 
| Alias /phpmyadmin /usr/share/phpmyadmin
| 
| Directory /usr/share/phpmyadmin
| Options FollowSymLinks
| DirectoryIndex index.php
| SSLRequireSSL
| 
| IfModule mod_php5.c
| AddType application/x-httpd-php .php
|+ FilesMatch .+\.ph(p[345]?|t|tml)$
|+ SetHandler application/x-httpd-php
|+ /FilesMatch
| 
| php_flag magic_quotes_gpc Off
| php_flag track_vars On
| php_flag register_globals Off
| php_admin_flag allow_url_fopen Off
| php_value include_path .
| php_admin_value upload_tmp_dir /var/lib/phpmyadmin/tmp
| php_admin_value open_basedir 
/usr/share/phpmyadmin/:/etc/phpmyadmin/:/var/lib/phpmyadmin/
| /IfModule
| 
| /Directory
| [...]

Patch - against 4:4.0.10-1 - attached.

See http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=727785 for another
possible fix.

Regards,
-thh

-- System Information:
Debian Release: 7.3
  APT prefers stable-updates
  APT policy: (500, 'stable-updates'), (500, 'stable')
Architecture: amd64 (x86_64)

Kernel: Linux 3.2.0-4-amd64 (SMP w/2 CPU cores)
Locale: LANG=en_US.UTF-8, LC_CTYPE=en_US.UTF-8 (charmap=UTF-8)
Shell: /bin/sh linked to /bin/dash

Versions of packages phpmyadmin depends on:
ii  dbconfig-common1.8.47+nmu1
ii  debconf [debconf-2.0]  1.5.49
ii  libapache2-mod-php55.4.4-14+deb7u7
ii  perl   5.14.2-21+deb7u1
ii  php5-cgi   5.4.4-14+deb7u7
ii  php5-mcrypt5.4.4-14+deb7u7
ii  php5-mysql 5.4.4-14+deb7u7
ii  ttf-dejavu-core2.33-3
ii  ucf3.0025+nmu3

Versions of packages phpmyadmin recommends:
ii  apache2  2.2.22-13
ii  apache2-mpm-prefork [httpd]  2.2.22-13
ii  mysql-client 5.5.33+dfsg-0+wheezy1
ii  mysql-client-5.5 [mysql-client]  5.5.33+dfsg-0+wheezy1
ii  

Bug#636548: libnet-dns-perl: Argument AI_NUMERICHOST isn't numeric in subroutine entry at [...]Resolver/Base.pm line 743

[Thomas Hochstein]

I wrote about 2 years ago:

 Net::DNS will output the following error (at least) when calling the mx()
 function with warnings enabled:

| Argument AI_NUMERICHOST isn't numeric in subroutine entry at
| /usr/lib/perl5/Net/DNS/Resolver/Base.pm line 743.

 Short script to reproduce:

 --
 #!/usr/bin/perl -W

A working workaround is changing the shebang to
| #!/usr/bin/perl -w

Regards,
-thh


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Re: GnuTLS in Debian

[Thomas Hochstein]

Russ Allbery schrieb:

 Bernhard R. Link brl...@debian.org writes:
 Could you please stop using that word idiosyncratic.

 I believe idiosyncratic is exactly the correct term:

   idiosyncratic
   adj 1: peculiar to the individual; we all have our own
  idiosyncratic gestures; Michelangelo's highly
  idiosyncratic style of painting

 and therefore decline to stop using it.

At least for the non-native speaker of English idiosyncratic may
rhyme very unfortunately with idiotic; that may be Bernhard's point.


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Re: [exim-dev] MX record usage

[Thomas Hochstein]

SirNoSkill wrote:

 NoSkillz

Yes, that sums it up nicely.

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Re: Message from 'git-rebase'; German translation

[Thomas Hochstein]

Ralf Thielow schrieb:

 We try to avoid translating terms like I wonder if.. and similar as
 ich wundere mich, 

I wonder if ... is not ich wundere mich (that's a false friend),
but Ich frage mich 

... and I wonder if you are in the middle of another rebase does not
mean ... und es wäre verwunderlich, wenn ein Neuaufbau bereits im
Gange ist, but offenbar / möglicherweise / vermutlich ist ein
Neuaufbau bereits im Gange or something like that. Exactly the
opposite of the translation, that is.

-thh

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Re: [Wikide-l] Elf Jahre Kontroversen, und DAS wird uns erledigen...

[Thomas Hochstein]

DaB. schrieb:

 Am Donnerstag 13 September 2012, 20:18:01 schrieb Thomas Hochstein:
 Mir ist nicht unmittelbar ersichtlich, warum es für die Beurteilung,
 ob eine Aussage antisemitisch ist, irgendwelcher Kenntnisse über die
 Funktion der Wikipedia - oder die Funktion einer Zeitung, eines
 Magazins, eines Forums, eines TV-Senders oder ... oder ... oder ...,
 je nachdem, wo sich diese Aussage findet - bedarf.

 man sollte schon Ahnung haben, wenn man etwas begutachten will.

Sicher - aber vor allem von dem, was man begutachten will oder soll.

 Eine Aussage 
 aus dem Zusammenhang zu reißen und dann zu sagen das ist Antisemitisch ist 
 Alles, nur nicht wissenschaftlich.

Eine Aussage kann selbstverständlich nur im Zusammenhang bewertet
werden. Dafür bedarf es aber keiner Kenntnisse der Funktionsweise der
Wikipedia oder der dort geführten Diskussionen, sondern nur des
Kontextes.

 Und die Wikipedia funktioniert eben nicht 
 wie z.B. eine Zeitung, wo jemand am Ende nochmal über alle Aussage guckt – 
 was 
 dazu führt das man wesentlich schlechter von einer Einzelaussage auf das 
 Ganze 
 schließen kann.

Auch dazu muß man aber nur das Ganze - also den Inhalt der Wikipedia
bzw. der entsprechenden Einträge - kennen und nicht ihre Strukturen
oder den Diskussionsstil.

Die Frage, ob Inhalte antisemitisch sind, ist nämlich davon
unabhängig, wie diese Inhalte zustandegekommen sind.

Grüße,
-thh

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Re: [Wikide-l] Elf Jahre Kontroversen, und DAS wird uns erledigen...

[Thomas Hochstein]

DaB. schrieb:

 Ich frage mich ja, was das für ein Gutachten geworden wäre, wenn die Frau 
 offentsichtlcih gar keine Ahnung hat(te), wie die WP (und ihre Diskussionen) 
 funktionieren….

Mir ist nicht unmittelbar ersichtlich, warum es für die Beurteilung,
ob eine Aussage antisemitisch ist, irgendwelcher Kenntnisse über die
Funktion der Wikipedia - oder die Funktion einer Zeitung, eines
Magazins, eines Forums, eines TV-Senders oder ... oder ... oder ...,
je nachdem, wo sich diese Aussage findet - bedarf. Leicht verständlich
hingegen erscheint mir, daß sich jemand mit Grausen wendet, wenn er
sieht, wie dort teilweise diskustiert wird.

-thh

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Re: git with uucp for deployment

[Thomas Hochstein]

Randal L. Schwartz schrieb:

 I am unaware of *anyone* using uucp these days,

UUCP over TCP/IP is still in use for transmission of mail and Usenet
news.

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Re: [Dovecot] What does namespace inbox {... mean

[Thomas Hochstein]

Jonathan Ryshpan schrieb:

 It appears from the wiki that the word following the namespace
 declarator (if this is the right word) should be either public,
 shared, or private, and describes a property of the namespace being
 declared. 

AFAIS the word following the keyword namespace is the name (of the
namespace). The type (public, shared or private) is declared by
using a type definition.

 So what does:
 namespace inbox {...
 mean?

That is a definition of a namespace named inbox.

-thh

Re: [Mailman-Users] AOL redacts user addresses even with VERP and full personalization enabled

[Thomas Hochstein]

Lindsay Haisley schrieb:

 So what would be the implications of hacking an extra header into
 outgoing posts on lists for which personalization is enabled, say
 X-Subdata, with said header containing a hash of the subscriber
 address to which the post is directed?

AOL ist actually recommending something like that (or adding the user
name somewhere in a way not looking like a mail addeess) - which makes
the whole thing even more absurd.

-thh
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Re: [Mailman-Users] more questions about Yahoo feedback loop and abuse complaints

[Thomas Hochstein]

Ralf Hildebrandt schrieb:

 Yahoo! users are truly special.

AOL users are, too. (They also have a feedback loop.)

-thh
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Re: openntpd not in stable

[Thomas Hochstein]

Mario -- schrieb:

 Hi, I know openntpd is in backports, but I'm curious, why was it
 removed from stable?

AFAIS first because it segfaults on kfreebsd-i386 [1] and then because
it works in a slightly confusing way [2]. That seems to be fixed now.

AFAIS it is part of Wheezy again.

You can check that yourself from
http://packages.qa.debian.org/o/openntpd.html, which contains a
removal message at 2010-08-18, linking to
http://packages.qa.debian.org/o/openntpd/news/20100818T163913Z.html,
which refers to jcristau's hint file at
http://release.debian.org/britney/hints/jcristau, which refers to
#593429

Regards,
-thh

[1] http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=522698
[2] http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=593429,
referring to http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=306106
from 2005/2007.


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Re: [exim] OT: Daft Question: HELO/EHLO FQDN or FQHN?

[Thomas Hochstein]

Ron White schrieb:

 'valid principal host domain name' is that a host name, a domain name, a
 host and domain name, a FQDN, a FQHN?

I don't see any difference between a FQDN (a fully qualified domain
name of a host) and a FQHN; in fact, that's the first time I read
about something like a FQHN.

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Re: on the M of NM

[Thomas Hochstein]

Thomas Goirand schrieb:

 On 09/29/2011 04:24 PM, Stefano Zacchiroli wrote:
 What kind of confusion would the above induce?

 You may think DM means DM when it really means DM,
 but no, a DM is a DM, not a DM.

 Isn't the above confusing? :)

It is, but less than currently.

AFAIS (and with some simplification), there are - among others -
Debian Developers (as full members of the project) and Debian
Maintainers (limited to specific uploading rights).

To become a Debain Maintainer, you just send your application to
this list. But to become a Debian Developer, you have to go through
the New Maintainer (!) process. That doesn't make any sense at all
and is extremely confusing.

-thh


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Re: on the M of NM

[Thomas Hochstein]

Thomas Goirand wrote:

 On 09/29/2011 04:24 PM, Stefano Zacchiroli wrote:
 What kind of confusion would the above induce?

 You may think DM means DM when it really means DM,
 but no, a DM is a DM, not a DM.

 Isn't the above confusing? :)

It is, but less than currently.

AFAIS (and with some simplification), there are - among others -
Debian Developers (as full members of the project) and Debian
Maintainers (limited to specific uploading rights).

To become a Debain Maintainer, you just send your application to
this list. But to become a Debian Developer, you have to go through
the New Maintainer (!) process. That doesn't make any sense at all
and is extremely confusing.

-thh


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Bug#636548: libnet-dns-perl: Argument AI_NUMERICHOST isn't numeric in subroutine entry at [...]Resolver/Base.pm line 743

[Thomas Hochstein]

Package: libnet-dns-perl
Version: 0.66-2
Severity: normal


Net::DNS will output the following error (at least) when calling the mx()
function with warnings enabled:

| Argument AI_NUMERICHOST isn't numeric in subroutine entry at
| /usr/lib/perl5/Net/DNS/Resolver/Base.pm line 743.

Short script to reproduce:

--
#!/usr/bin/perl -W
use strict;
use Net::DNS;
my $resolver = Net::DNS::Resolver-new(udp_timeout = 15, tcp_timeout = 15);
my @mxrr = mx($resolver,'debian.org');
--

That did not happen with libnet-dns-perl 0.63-2 from old-stable.

Google knows of (just) one other mention of this warning (at least as far
as I could find) at https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=445314,
but that was not helpful for me.

Regards,
-thh

-- System Information:
Debian Release: 6.0.2
  APT prefers stable-updates
  APT policy: (500, 'stable-updates'), (500, 'stable')
Architecture: i386 (i686)

Kernel: Linux 2.6.32-028stab091.2 (SMP w/1 CPU core)
Locale: LANG=de_DE.utf8, LC_CTYPE=de_DE.utf8 (charmap=ANSI_X3.4-1968) (ignored: 
LC_ALL set to C)
Shell: /bin/sh linked to /bin/bash

Versions of packages libnet-dns-perl depends on:
ii  libc6  2.11.2-10 Embedded GNU C Library: Shared lib
ii  libdigest-hmac-perl1.02+dfsg-1   module for creating standard messa
ii  libnet-ip-perl 1.25-2Perl extension for manipulating IP
ii  perl [libmime-base64-p 5.10.1-17squeeze2 Larry Wall's Practical Extraction 
ii  perl-base [perlapi-5.1 5.10.1-17squeeze2 minimal Perl system

libnet-dns-perl recommends no packages.

Versions of packages libnet-dns-perl suggests:
ii  libio-socket-inet6-perl   2.65-1.1   Object interface for AF_INET6 doma

-- no debconf information



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Re: https://alioth.debian.org: untrusted connection

[Thomas Hochstein]

[CC:ed, as requested]

Holger Wansing schrieb:

 (1) The certificate for alioth.debian.org is signed by the unknown 
 Certificate Authority ca.debian.org. It is not possible to verify 
 that this is a valid certificate.

You don't have the root certificate for the Debian CA installed. You
can add it manually, I think, after checking its authenticity, e.g.
from http://ca.debian.org/; it seems to be part of the
ca-certificates package, too.

 Is this a mistake on my site (system, browser, ...)?

It's a common problem with SSL/TLS connections (in this case https):
you have to decide which certificates to trust (or let your browser
vendor decide).

You can always accept the certificate (once) anyway if you're
reasonably sure that you did, indeed, connect to
{alioth|vasks|wagner}.debian.org (and not some other host
impersonating this machine).

-thh


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Re: DM upload permissions in detail

[Thomas Hochstein]

Ben Finney schrieb:

 the first UID with an email address is used by dak. It can be changed
 manually if there is a good reason for such a change. Please file a
 bug report against ftp.debian.org if you need such a change.

 Why is an additional reason needed? Why isn't it sufficient that the
 person wants to sign with that UID?

Because such a change needs manual intervention, I presume.


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Re: [Mailman-Users] pending moderator request question

[Thomas Hochstein]

Glen Page schrieb:

 For the last several days, I have been getting a 1 Mailman moderator
 request(s) waiting message daily from my mailman server. I have
 logged on as administrator to the list.

To the right list, i.e. the mailman site list?

-thh
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Re: Bug in linux-image-2.6.32-5-amd64

[Thomas Hochstein]

Hans-J. Ullrich wrote:

 I hope, you can help me. I am looking for a prior version of latest kernel-
 package, as the last version got a big bug. The latest version, I found was 
 named 

 linux-image-2.6.32-5-amd64_2.6.32-31_amd64.deb

 but I am looking for the package named

 linux-image-2.6.32-5-amd64_2.6.32-30_amd64.deb. 

Does
http://snapshot.debian.org/package/linux-2.6/2.6.32-30/#linux-image-2.6.32-5-amd64_2.6.32-30
help?

 Backports did not help me. I also filed a bugreport using reportbug, but for 
 some reasons, it was sent, but never appeared in the database.

That seems to be
http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=620848.

(I'm not sure that's a topic for -devel; perhaps you should take that
to -user or -user-german?)

Regards,
-thh


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Bug#618902: knode: Disable automatic setting of Followup-To header for non-cross-posted articles

[Thomas Hochstein]

Package: knode
Version: 4:4.4.7-3
Severity: normal
Tags: upstream
Forwarded: https://bugs.kde.org/178208

knode will automatically set a Followup-To header to every posting,
even when it is not crossposted to more than one group, violating
a should not in RFC 5536 3.2.6.

That bug is not just cosmetical; there are real world problems
when posting to mailinglists gated to newsgroups (gmane.* and
linux.*), especially when one user is posting to gmane.X (with
automated superfluous Followup-To set to gmane.X) and another
user is reading that message on linux.X and trying to reply.

There are numerous reports on the upstream bug tracker, with
the most applicable one at https://bugs.kde.org/178208

The bug seems to be fixed with commit 1079182 in upstream's
SVN at http://websvn.kde.org/?revision=1079182view=revision
(dated 2010-01-23).

Regards,
-thh

-- System Information:
Debian Release: 6.0
  APT prefers squeeze-updates
  APT policy: (500, 'squeeze-updates'), (500, 'stable'), (90, 'testing')
Architecture: amd64 (x86_64)

Kernel: Linux 2.6.32-5-amd64 (SMP w/2 CPU cores)
Locale: LANG=en_US.UTF-8, LC_CTYPE=en_US.UTF-8 (charmap=UTF-8)
Shell: /bin/sh linked to /bin/dash



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Bug#618902: knode: Disable automatic setting of Followup-To header for non-cross-posted articles

[Thomas Hochstein]

Package: knode
Version: 4:4.4.7-3
Severity: normal
Tags: upstream
Forwarded: https://bugs.kde.org/178208

knode will automatically set a Followup-To header to every posting,
even when it is not crossposted to more than one group, violating
a should not in RFC 5536 3.2.6.

That bug is not just cosmetical; there are real world problems
when posting to mailinglists gated to newsgroups (gmane.* and
linux.*), especially when one user is posting to gmane.X (with
automated superfluous Followup-To set to gmane.X) and another
user is reading that message on linux.X and trying to reply.

There are numerous reports on the upstream bug tracker, with
the most applicable one at https://bugs.kde.org/178208

The bug seems to be fixed with commit 1079182 in upstream's
SVN at http://websvn.kde.org/?revision=1079182view=revision
(dated 2010-01-23).

Regards,
-thh

-- System Information:
Debian Release: 6.0
  APT prefers squeeze-updates
  APT policy: (500, 'squeeze-updates'), (500, 'stable'), (90, 'testing')
Architecture: amd64 (x86_64)

Kernel: Linux 2.6.32-5-amd64 (SMP w/2 CPU cores)
Locale: LANG=en_US.UTF-8, LC_CTYPE=en_US.UTF-8 (charmap=UTF-8)
Shell: /bin/sh linked to /bin/dash



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Bug#617597: suck: copyright file refers to dead URL (upstream dead?)

[Thomas Hochstein]

Package: suck
Version: 4.3.2-7
Severity: minor
Tags: patch

The copyright file for suck refers to sucknews.org for
further information, but the domain has obviously been
acquired by a domain parking service, now containing mainly
sex links (since about 2007, with the page being offline
since at least 2003).

Perhaps the paragraph referring to sucknews.org should
be removed.

Furthermore, suck has been replaced by Small newsfeed from
an NNTP server with standard NNTP commands. in the copyright
file, leading to strange punctuation. That could be fixed, too.

Patch attached.

Regards,
-thh

-- System Information:
Debian Release: 6.0
  APT prefers squeeze-updates
  APT policy: (500, 'squeeze-updates'), (500, 'stable'), (90, 'testing')
Architecture: amd64 (x86_64)

Kernel: Linux 2.6.32-5-amd64 (SMP w/2 CPU cores)
Locale: LANG=en_US.UTF-8, LC_CTYPE=en_US.UTF-8 (charmap=UTF-8)
Shell: /bin/sh linked to /bin/dash

Versions of packages suck depends on:
ii  libc6   2.11.2-10Embedded GNU C Library: Shared lib
ii  libssl0.9.8 0.9.8o-4squeeze1 SSL shared libraries

Versions of packages suck recommends:
ii  perl  5.10.1-17  Larry Wall's Practical Extraction 

Versions of packages suck suggests:
ii  inn2 [news-transport-sy 2.5.2-2~squeeze1 'InterNetNews' news server
ii  lynx-cur [news-reader]  2.8.8dev.5-1 Text-mode WWW Browser with NLS sup

-- Configuration Files:
/etc/suck/get-news.conf changed [not included]

-- no debconf information
--- suck-4.3.2/debian/copyright 2011-03-09 09:08:32.0 +0100
+++ suck-4.3.2/debian/copyright.new 2011-03-09 09:08:51.466487260 +0100
@@ -1,10 +1,6 @@
-This is the Debian prepackaged version of Small newsfeed from an NNTP
-server with standard NNTP commands..  It was Debianised by Debian
-QA Group debian...@lists.debian.org, using files obtained from
-http://www.sucknews.org/
-
-More information about Small newsfeed from an NNTP server with standard
-NNTP commands. is available from http://www.sucknews.org/
+This is the Debian prepackaged version of suck. It was Debianised by
+Debian QA Group debian...@lists.debian.org, using files obtained
+from http://www.sucknews.org/

 Changes were made as follows:
   Added the get-news script (see manpage).

Bug#614004: slrn: outgoing charset UTF-8: misleading example in sample config

[Thomas Hochstein]

package slrn
found 614004 1.0.0~pre18-1.1 
tags 614004 patch
thanks

I wrote:

   % the character set used for outgoing articles
   %charset outgoing utf8
[...]
 Please change that example to

   % the character set used for outgoing articles
   %charset outgoing utf-8

 (I'm still using lenny on that box here but have confirmed that
 this bug is still present in 1.0.0~pre18-1.1 from squeeze.)

Simple patch attached.

-thh


slrn.diff
Description: Binary data

Re: ClamAV update to 0.97 for Lenny (oldstable)

[Thomas Hochstein]

Camaleón wrote:

 I just have read this notice:

 http://web.nvd.nist.gov/view/vuln/detail?vulnId=CVE-2011-1003

According to
http://security-tracker.debian.org/tracker/CVE-2011-1003, Lenny's
version is not vulnerable.


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Bug#614004: slrn: outgoing charset UTF-8: misleading example in sample config

[Thomas Hochstein]

Package: slrn
Version: 0.9.9~pre111-1
Severity: minor

slrn uses a misleading example for setting the outgoing charset to UTF-8
in /usr/share/doc/slrn/examples/slrn.rc.gz:

  %
  %% 6. Character mapping / MIME support
  %

  [...]

  % the character set used for outgoing articles
  %charset outgoing utf8

That leads to a Content-Type header of


  Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf8

which is wrong; it should be

  Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8

(mind the hyphen!).

It's quite common to see that mistake in the wild, and a wrong
charset definition like that will keep other newsreaders from
correctly displaying the message (as they don't know a charset
named utf8 and fall back to their default which very likely
is not UTF-8).

Please change that example to

  % the character set used for outgoing articles
  %charset outgoing utf-8

(I'm still using lenny on that box here but have confirmed that
this bug is still present in 1.0.0~pre18-1.1 from squeeze.)

Regards,
-thh

-- System Information:
Debian Release: 5.0.8
  APT prefers oldstable
  APT policy: (500, 'oldstable')
Architecture: i386 (i686)

Kernel: Linux 2.6.26-2-686 (SMP w/1 CPU core)
Locale: LANG=en_US.UTF-8, LC_CTYPE=en_US.UTF-8 (charmap=UTF-8)
Shell: /bin/sh linked to /bin/bash

Versions of packages slrn depends on:
ii  debconf [debconf-2.0]   1.5.24   Debian configuration management sy
ii  libc6   2.7-18lenny7 GNU C Library: Shared libraries
ii  libcanlock2 2b-4 library for creating and verifying
ii  libslang2   2.1.3-3  The S-Lang programming library - r

slrn recommends no packages.

Versions of packages slrn suggests:
pn  metamail  none (no description available)
pn  slrnpull  none (no description available)

-- debconf information excluded



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Re: Can insserv made better?

[Thomas Hochstein]

Mike Bird schrieb:

 No, I'm saying that Snn/Knn values boot some systems where
 insserv fails.  Therefore Snn/Knn is superior in some cases.

Does insserv fail then because it is inherently unable to mimic the
Snn/Knn behaviour or due to wrong (missing, ...) dependency info in
the initscripts? If it's the latter, the right solution would be
fixing the scripts, I think.

-thh


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Re: [Mailman-Developers] Suggestions about Mailman bounce processing

[Thomas Hochstein]

Superticker2 (Mark) schrieb:

 If there's a service or utility that can verify a list of email addresses
 (prior to a mass operation), please suggest it.

http://th-h.de/download/checkmail-0.4.tar.gz is a Perl script to
check the validity of a mail address (by trying a SMTP dialog up to
RCPT TO).

From the README:
| DESCRIPTION
|
| checkmail checks the vailidity / deliverability of a mail address. You
| may submit just one address as the last argument or a file containing
| one address on each line using the -f option.

Regards,
-thh
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Re: [php-maint] Fixing php-soap for Squeeze

[Thomas Hochstein]

Thomas Goirand schrieb:

 On 12/04/2010 06:53 PM, Ola Lundqvist wrote:
 No problem with me. But please remove me from uploaders. I think I was
 added there due to sponsoring this package a long time ago.

 Being the sponsor isn't a reason good enough to be in the uploader list.

That may be the reason that he asks to be removed from there.


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Re: Oops: I broke the lenny -- squeeze update

[Thomas Hochstein]

Philipp Kern wrote:

 On 2010-11-22, Raphael Hertzog hert...@debian.org wrote:
 The release notes usually recommend to have the latest stable packages
 before proceeding with the upgrade.

 Are they?  

They did:
|  4.2 Checking system status
[...]
|  This procedure also assumes your system has been updated to the
|  latest point release of sarge. If you have not done this or are
|  unsure, follow the instructions in Upgrading your sarge system,
|  Section A.1. 
http://www.debian.org/releases/etch/i386/release-notes/ch-upgrading.en.html

|  4.2. Checking system status
| [...]
|  This procedure also assumes your system has been updated to the
|  latest point release of etch. If you have not done this or are
|  unsure, follow the instructions in Section A.1, “Upgrading your etch
|  system”. 
http://www.debian.org/releases/lenny/i386/release-notes/ch-upgrading.en.html

And they still do:
|  4.2. Checking system status
| [...]
|  This procedure also assumes your system has been updated to the
|  latest point release of lenny. If you have not done this or are
|  unsure, follow the instructions in Section A.1, “Upgrading your lenny
|  system”. 
http://www.debian.org/releases/squeeze/i386/release-notes/ch-upgrading.en.html#system-status

Regards,
-thh
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Re: RFH: bug squashing for php5

[Thomas Hochstein]

Michael Banck wrote:

 On Thu, Oct 21, 2010 at 11:10:45AM +0200, Ond?ej Surý wrote:
 we currently lack hands for testing and bug squashing in php5. I have just
 uploaded php5 5.3.3-2 to unstable and as soon as it get built it would be
 great if we had more hands to go through all the bugs in the src=php5 and
 test if they are still present in 5.3.3 version. [...]

 Is this targetted at squeeze?

Yes, and it has chances to get accepted:
http://lists.debian.org/debian-release/2010/10/msg01055.html

-thh


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Re: Debian bugs #700000 and #1000000 contest

[Thomas Hochstein]

Josselin Mouette schrieb:

 Le dimanche 17 octobre 2010 à 21:25 +0200, Christian PERRIER a écrit :
 So, for the third time, a small contest has been set up. The principle
 is very simple: please place a bet (one per person) about the day bugs
 #70 and #100 will be reported.

 I find it disappointing to see this posted, and in bad taste.

It would be much more interesting to learn _why_ you feel so (and not
just that you do) - particularly as I'm sure I'm not the only one ;)
who has trobule to understand such reasoning.

-thh

PS: Wouldn't -project be a more appropriate place for this less
technical aspects?


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Re: [exim] Callout

[Thomas Hochstein]

W B Hacker schrieb:

   first off, using a machine-generated bogus destination address such as;

 greenmeadow.szaf.org-1285976102-test...@conducive.org

 .. is probably going to get you a rejection in ALL cases where the target 
 does 
 *recipient* verification.

Yes, that's the point.

See http://www.exim.org/exim-html-4.40/doc/html/spec_38.html:
|  random: Before doing the normal callout check, Exim does a check for
|  a “random” local part at the same domain. The local part is not
|  really random – [...]
|
|  The idea here is to try to determine whether the remote host accepts
|  all local parts without checking. If it does, there is no point in
|  doing callouts for specific local parts. If the “random” check
|  succeeds, the result is saved in a cache record, and used to force
|  the current and subsequent callout checks to succeed without a
|  connection being made, until the cache record expires. 

I'll have to (re-)evaluate that sometimes; a list of hosts that
blindly accept all recipients would be better, of course.

Regards,
-thh

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Re: [exim] Callout

[Thomas Hochstein]

W B Hacker schrieb:

 2010-09-27 11:19:32 H=domain.com [123.123.123.123]:56505
 I=[234.234.234]:25 sender verify fail for sen...@domain.com: response
 to MAIL FROM: from a.mx.domain.com [217.153.18.125] was: 550 5.5.0
 Sender domain is empty.
[...]
 If the text is correct, it didn't complain that the $local_part was empty.

 It said the sender *domain* was empty.

That doesn't matter, does it? With an empty sender (), local part
_and_ domain part of the sender are empty.

 That's either a misleading error message, or whole 'nuther issue.

I don't think so.

-thh

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Re: [exim-dev] [Bug 1026] New: dnslists doesn't allow underscores

[Thomas Hochstein]

Mike Cardwell schrieb:

 dnslists doesn't allow you to use underscores in list name. 

Wasn't it disallowed to use underscores in DNS entries?

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Re: [exim-dev] [Bug 1026] New: dnslists doesn't allow underscores

[Thomas Hochstein]

Graeme Fowler schrieb:

 In short, a dnslist can be used to contain items which are neither host
 nor domain names; ergo characters not permissible in those items should
 be permissible to enable the lookup of records such as they type Mike
 originally mentioned.

 Apologies if that's a bit long-winded but it might help others who come
 along later and look in the archives!

Thanks for your explanation. I seem to have mixed up limitations for
host / domain names with specifications for (other) DNS RR. Sorry.

-thh

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Re: [exim-dev] [Bug 1026] New: dnslists doesn't allow underscores

[Thomas Hochstein]

Mike Cardwell schrieb:

 On Thu, 30 Sep 2010 08:49:33 +0200, Thomas Hochstein exim-...@ml.th-h.de
 wrote:
 Wasn't it disallowed to use underscores in DNS entries?

 Nope, underscores are fine. Not in domain names, but in DNS records.
 Otherwise how would DKIM work? (_domainkey.example.com)

I see. Sorry for the noise, then.

-thh

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Re: Bits from keyring-maint

[Thomas Hochstein]

Christian PERRIER schrieb:

 I would like to know the process which lead to selecting these figures.

 Apparently, just like many other things in the project: the folks
 doing the work (and appointed for this by the project through the DPL)
 examine the situation, make plans and decisions and
 then announce them.

All well and good, but perhaps they care to share the reasoning
leading to that decision. ;)


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Re: release-critical bug statistics

[Thomas Hochstein]

francis southern schrieb:

 I have to confess I don't  know what a britney is in this context,

|  For those coming in late, “britney” is the name of the scripts that
|  manage Debian’s testing distribution; it uses a number of criteria,
|  including time since upload, number of open bugs, where it’s been
|  ported to, and dependency information to maintain a set of packages
|  that meet Debian’s release goals. 
http://www.erisian.com.au/wordpress/2003/06/26/britneys-delay

 but should it be capitalised?

I don't think so.

Regards,
-thh


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Re: [exim-dev] Security issues in exim4 local delivery

[Thomas Hochstein]

Nigel Metheringham schrieb:

 If there is no one else taking this on then I will build a release,
 however I will also document it as being the last exim release as
 the development community is unable to sustain further work, so the
 only reasonable recommendation is for people to transition to a
 mailer that has long term support.

That'd be a shame. I'm not a programmer and don't have very much time
on my hands, but if there's something I could do to help, I'd try.

-thh

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Re: UPG and the default umask

[Thomas Hochstein]

Felipe Sateler schrieb:

 I mean, is there a reason for why I would want a non-UPG system?

What about a hosting environment where you need to have user files
world-readable (HTML documents or (PHP) scripts readable by www-data),
but don't want them readable by other customers? You could achieve
that by putting all customers in a common group (users) and setting
the files 604 or the like.

-thh


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Re: [Wikide-l] Rauchlohe?

[Thomas Hochstein]

Henriette Fiebig schrieb:

 mit Deiner Interpretation liegst Du wohl richtig, auch wenn sich das  
 Wort bei schneller Suche in den Wörterbüchern nicht nachweisen läßt.

Vermutlich, weil's das Wort nicht gibt ...

 Mein Synonymwörterbuch sagt zwar, dass es sich bei „Lohe“ um einen  
 gehobenen Sprachgebrauch für „Feuer“ handelt, die Grimms bestätigen  
 allerdings meine Ansicht, dass das Wort recht alt ist (seit dem 16.  
 Jahrhundert in Gebrauch):

 * http://tinyurl.com/3xpal85 (Eintrag „Lohe“ im Grimmschen Wörterbuch)

Klar, die Bedeutung kennt man ja, und in lichterloh hat sie sich
durchaus im heutigen Sprachgebrauch noch erhalten; dennoch macht
Rauchlohe für Rauchsäule keinen Sinn. Am wahrscheinlichsten ist
daher schlichte Unkenntnis des Verwenders.

-thh

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Re: Bug#581434: UPG and the default umask

[Thomas Hochstein]

Christoph Anton Mitterer schrieb:

 #2 UPG with umask 022 is useless.
 Why is it?

See http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2010/05/msg00315.html.


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Re: Debian Maintainer Application for Chris Grzegorczyk

[Thomas Hochstein]

Steffen Möller wrote:

 Chris is one of the co-founders
 of Debian and if there was a Debian Director, then this
 would probably be him. 

s/Debian/Eucalyptus/, I think?

-thh


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Re: [Clamav-users] No debian woody support anymore?

[Thomas Hochstein]

Simon Hobson schrieb:

 OK, how's this then. 9.5.3 (IIRC) came out about the time the notice 
 was published. It costs virtually nothing to add an extra DNS entry, 
 and the release could have had the default server URL changed for 
 Freshclam to fetch updates. it wouldn't even have been a great issue 
 to have a 9.5.4 just for that - and of course the change would be 
 quite prominent in the release notes then as well.

Why didn't you suggest that beforehand?

Why didn't you just DO that if you consider it necessary as it costs
virtually nothing, neither time nor money?

-thh
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Re: RSF: logkeys

[Thomas Hochstein]

vedran.fu...@gmail.com wrote:

   Upstream Author : Kernc kernc...@gmail.com

The mail address seems ... wrong.


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Re: Processed: ipv6 release goal

[Thomas Hochstein]

Marc Haber schrieb:

 Marc, who has preferred language DE as well and cringes whenever a
 Debian page comes up and would really love to see those in English

Same here, yes.


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Re: Flag images

[Thomas Hochstein]

Steve Langasek schrieb:

 Herbert's resignation mail is here:

   http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2004/05/msg00276.html

 I've always found it ambiguous what Herbert was referring to when he said
 this is too much - the use of the Taiwanese flag?  The original listing of
 Taiwan as a country that started the thread?  Denis rudely telling Herbert
 that he should resign and join Fedora? - but I don't conclude that his
 resignation had nothing to do with flags.

Did you see
http://lists.debian.org/debian-boot/2004/05/msg00410.html?
| Had you made your own list of locations from scratch there would be no
| complaint by me.  However, if you use the iso name for every location
| except that of Taiwan, then I do have a problem with that.
|
| If this is your attitude, then I shall resign this project.  I do not
| wish to be associated with people who're actively working towards the
| independence of Taiwan.

-thh


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Re: [Wikide-l] Relevanzlevel

[Thomas Hochstein]

Thomas Koenig schrieb:

 Der Leser selber muss 
 beurteilen können, wie wichtig/rchtig ein Artikel ist.

Wenn er das fachkundig könnte, müßte er ihn in der Regel nicht lesen,
nicht wahr?

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Re: [hlds_linux] Left 4 Dead 2 Update Available

[Thomas Hochstein]

Jay Deiman schrieb:

 Perhaps, unless there is something absolutely critical to fix, these 
 updates should be pushed out on a Monday morning.  

Monday morning in which timezone? ;)

But you're right. Friday evening in *any* timezone is really a bad
idea.

-thh

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Re: [Wikide-l] WP keine demokratie? war: Die Leiden der jungen Schweizerin

[Thomas Hochstein]

assetburned schrieb:

 das ist recht einfach: Wir sind keine Demokratie. Nebenbei wäre ein Neuling 
 eh' nicht stimmberechtigt und keinen der Nur-Leser wird es interessieren. 
 Für 
 die interessierten (stimmberechtigten) Autoren gibt es ja das 
 [[Wikipedia:Autorenportal]].

 ähhh keine demokratie? also so kommt es mir vor, ja.
 aber gedacht ist es sicherlich anders, ansonsten würden
 löschdiskussionen und meinungsbilder keinen sinn machen.

Lösch*diskussionen* und *Meinungsbilder* sind Diskussionen und
Meinungsbilder, aber keine Abstimmungen. Entscheidend ist also
insbesondere bei ersterem nicht die Anzahl der Stimmen, sondern die
Güte der Argumente.

Das ist auch sinnvoll, weil Abstimmungen zwingend einen definierten
Teilnehmerkreis (bei politischen Wahlen: alle Wahlberechtigten,
meistens die Staatsbürger, Einwohner, ...; in Vereinen: die
Mitglieder) und eine Kontrolle der Abstimmberechtigung erfordern.

Offene Systeme wie (nicht nur) die Wikipedia, an denen grundsätzlich
jederzeit jeder teilnehmen kann, haben bei Abstimmungen das Problem,
daß es ohne Schwierigkeiten möglich ist, (nahezu) beliebig viele
Stimmen für einen bestimmten Abstimmungspunkt zu generieren, bspw.
durch simples Campaigning, auch wenn Leuten, die ansonsten weder
irgendwelche Kenntnisse über noch irgendein Interesse an der Wikipedia
haben, mit der Folge, daß über die Köpfe der eigentlichen
Wikipedianer hinweggestimmt werden kann. Eine Beschränkung der
Abstimmberechtigung (so und so lange Mitglied, so und so viele Edits)
kann da zwar helfen, nützt aber nur bedingt, weil aus der Offenheit
des Systems auch das zweite Problem der fehlenden Kontrollmöglichkeit
(one man, one vote) resultiert (Stichwort Zweit- oder
Mehrfachaccounts, die sich auch bei Beschränkungen durchaus im Voraus
generieren lassen).

-thh

PS: Nach meinem unmaßgeblichen Empfinden ist es nicht nur für Beiträge
in einem Projekt zur Erstellung einer Enzyklopäide, sondern in jedem
schriftlichen Medium, gerade auch bei dort geführten Diskussionen,
äußerst hilfreich, neben der Konzentation auf den Inhalt der Beiträge
auch ein Minimum an Aufwand auf deren Gestaltung (Orthographie,
Grammatik, Zeilenumbruch, Absätze, ...) zu verwenden, weil diese
Beiträge sonst schwer lesbar, im Extrem unlesbar werden. Das ist m.E.
auf der einen Seite eine Unhöflichkeit dem Gegenüber gegenüber ;) und
auf der anderen Seite dazu geeignet, den eigenen Äußerungen weniger
Gewicht zu verleihen. YMMV.

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Re: [Wikide-l] Stublöschung

[Thomas Hochstein]

Lutz Terheyden schrieb:

 Entweder sie stoßen auf einen Müllartikel - dann machen sie ihn besser,
 oder sie stoßen auf keinen Müllartikel - dann haben sie keine
 Information darüber und er stört nicht.

Oder sie stoßen auf einen Müllartikel, haben aber keine Zeit oder
keine Lust, ihn zu verbessern. Dann stört er. Und er bleibt störend.
Und es werden mehr Artikel, die störend werden.

-thh

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