Re: What to do with those MS Exchange Servers?
Hi, Patrick, on Sonntag, 30. Mai 2004 at 16:09 you wrote to amanda-users: PJL You do not need to stop Exchange. First: Thank you for all your suggestions, I will have a close look at all these tips ASAP. PJL The Deleted Item Recovery mitigates the problem somewhat. It works PJL by having the server not actually delete anything until a few weeks PJL after the user empties the trash. See PJL http://support.microsoft.com/?id=228934. (Assuming people actually PJL use the trash; see http://support.microsoft.com/?id=178630.) I have to look at the habits of the clients users ... PJL Also, you do not always have to dump one big dumpfile. Windows Backup PJL supports incremental backups, which dump everything that changed since PJL the previous dump. This works with Exchange because the server uses a PJL database for everything, and the incremental backups dump just the PJL transaction logs and not the entire database. AFAIK they have tried to follow the rule the best backup is a full backup until now. PJL So, here is what I did. PJL First, I set aside a nice big partition to hold the dump files. PJL Next, I configured Windows Backup to do a full backup every Saturday PJL evening and an incremental backup each other night of the week. This PJL requires going through the GUI wizard seven times, in order to PJL configure the distinct file names and weekday for each backup. Just to get that clear: this tool does the dumps to disk ... PJL (Aside: You might be able to use the command-line ntbackup to write PJL your own automation scripts; see PJL http://www.microsoft.com/resources/documentation/WindowsServ/2003/standard/proddocs/en-us/ntbackup_command.asp. PJL But I figured if I ever wanted to hand this off to a certified PJL Exchange(R) Administrator(TM), I should use Microsoft's built-in GUI PJL tools as much as possible.) ;-) PJL Finally, I used Amanda's SMB support to back up the dump files. The PJL only problem is that my main database file is now bigger than 2G... PJL Which reminds me, I really ought to do something about that. Like get PJL rid of Exchange. PJL If you keep Exchange, I strongly recommend running the Microsoft PJL Baseline Security Analyzer PJL (http://www.microsoft.com/technet/security/tools/mbsahome.mspx) PJL frequently to keep up-to-date with security patches. Be careful about PJL the MBSA's other suggestions, though, since some of the changes it PJL recommends to lock down IIS (like, say, running the IIS lockdown PJL tool) will break Outlook Web Access. Ask me how I know. How do you know? PJL I am pretty sure Outlook 2002 and 2003 have better IMAP support than PJL their predecessors, for what it is worth. PJL Good luck! Thanks a lot ! PJL - Pat PJLhttp://unattended.sourceforge.net/ PJL P.S. Oh look, I found my Exchange notes. Below is the section I PJL wrote on backups. Let me know if you are interested in the rest of my PJL notes. PJL Backups PJL === PJL Read http://support.microsoft.com/?kbid=258243. PJL Configure backups. Do mkdir e:\backup, which is where we will keep PJL our backup dumps. PJL Share the e:\backup folder as a share named backup. Go to Start - Programs - Accessories - System Tools - Backup. PJL Select Schedule Jobs then click Add Job. In the Wizard, choose to PJL backup selected items. Expand Microsoft Exchange Server - PJL DARKSEID, and check Microsoft Information Store. For the Backup PJL File name, use E:\backup\xchgfull.bkf. Select Normal for type of PJL backup operation. Do not bother to verify backup (because it is going PJL to disk). Choose to Replace (not append) the data on the media with PJL the backup. Use Exchange full dump for the label. Schedule the job PJL to run every Saturday at 8 P.M. PJL Repeat the process, but use E:\backup\xchgsun.bkf for the file name, PJL Incremental for the type, and Sunday incremental for the label. PJL Schedule the job to run every Sunday at 8 P.M. PJL Repeat for Monday through Friday incrementals. ... thx again ... -- best regards, Stefan Stefan G. Weichinger mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: What to do with those MS Exchange Servers?
Stefan G. Weichinger wrote: Hello, amanda-users, -SNIP MS Exchange seems to only be able to dump ONE BIG FAT dumpfile, from which you can only recover ALL the server. SNIP- This is correct up to 5.5 and I think 2k. The way the various windows backup software products get around this is by using a piece of the exchange client with the Exchange admin password. It can then log in and collect each message from each mailbox as and when it wants to. It would be nice to have a windows client for Amanda with the ability to accept plugins, then some kind people might start producing plugins that can back up Exchange and M$SQL etc. the way Microsoft want you to do it. Chris.
Re: What to do with those MS Exchange Servers?
Hi, Chris Lee, on Donnerstag, 27. Mai 2004 at 12:46 you wrote to amanda-users: CL Stefan G. Weichinger wrote: Hello, amanda-users, CL -SNIP MS Exchange seems to only be able to dump ONE BIG FAT dumpfile, from which you can only recover ALL the server. CL SNIP- CL It would be nice to have a windows client for Amanda with the ability to CL accept plugins, then some kind people might start producing plugins that CL can back up Exchange and M$SQL etc. the way Microsoft want you to do it. This sounds like a major development to me ... AFAIK the number of amanda-hackers willing to do MS-programming is near to zero. A first step would be to get a small win-client that exports those exchange (notice the NAME! especially in this context ;-) ) mails to what we love: textfiles. Dumping that stuff would be already possible with AMAMBA ;-) (combination of AMANDA and Samba). I am still not much of a programmer, but I think getting this export-client should be possible with reasonable effort. -- best regards, Stefan Stefan G. Weichinger mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: What to do with those MS Exchange Servers?
Hi, On Wed, 26.05.2004 at 16:34:37 +0200, Stefan G. Weichinger [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Subject: What to do with those MS Exchange Servers? to answer this question first: Dispose of them and upgrade to a decent Unix mail system! ...ok, just joking... confronted with the question how to backup a MS Exchange Server ! It would help to know the version of Exchange that you have. Afaik there are significant differenes in behaviour between the various versions. MS Exchange seems to only be able to dump ONE BIG FAT dumpfile, from which you can only recover ALL the server. True for 5.5 afair - I managed one for about 1.5 yrs. If you only need/want to restore SOME mails, this does not work. Right. Correct me on this, it's hard to believe for me anyway. No. Exchange 5.5 has a binary blob which holds almost all data, and a few small files around it. Can't remember exactly, and it's not in my responsibility anymore. If I could offer these guys an AMANDA-based solution which would be able to restore single mails this would open some doors ;-) Switch to a Unix mailsystem. Then Amanda works best ;-) Maybe you can do it with Exchange 2003 which is an entirely different can of worms for all I heard... keep us posted! Best, --Toni++
Re: What to do with those MS Exchange Servers?
Not being able to restore specific messages easily was one of the reasons we moved away from Exchange 5.5. I was by no means an Exchange expert, but I agree with Toni that moving to something UNIX based will make your life easier. Sendmail, Procmail, Courier IMAP and OpenLDAP are being used now instead of Exchange. We're not missing the shared calendars and now whether or not our mail system is about to puke is one less thing I have to worry about. The flexibility of having each message in a file (using Maildir) makes restores of specific messages or folders incredibly easy. The mailserver never has to go down, and I don't need to worry about making sure I'm using Exchange compatible backup software. Just my 2 cents. Exchange 5.5 for me was always a ticking timebomb, as it was with the administrators before me. When things would break, all you had to work with were error codes that never matched anything on Google or the MS knowledgebase, and you're left with no other options than to call MS support. We wouldn't even consider Exchange 2003 because of that. Chris On May 26, 2004 08:34 am, Stefan G. Weichinger wrote: Hello, amanda-users, until now I managed to get around these things, but today I was confronted with the question how to backup a MS Exchange Server ! Ok, I know, it's something like: - stop exchange - dump exchange to file - start exchange - dump file to tape/disk with AMANDA But there was another thing I was asked and which is definitely offtopic in here, but due to the fact that I hope that someone has solved this already AND uses AMANDA I am not scared that much: As I have never seen such a server IRL, I can only tell you what I was told. MS Exchange seems to only be able to dump ONE BIG FAT dumpfile, from which you can only recover ALL the server. If you only need/want to restore SOME mails, this does not work. Correct me on this, it's hard to believe for me anyway. If I could offer these guys an AMANDA-based solution which would be able to restore single mails this would open some doors ;-) I will research on this on the web, but maybe someone in here already knows what to do and how ... Thanks a lot ...
Re: What to do with those MS Exchange Servers?
Hi, On Wed, 26.05.2004 at 09:29:01 -0600, Chris Cameron [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Not being able to restore specific messages easily was one of the reasons we moved away from Exchange 5.5. proprietary, closed-source programs sometimes offer plug-ins that claim to do that. Expect to run Veritas or some such, and shell out $1k for the plug-in alone. I was by no means an Exchange expert, but I agree with Toni that moving to something UNIX based will make your life easier. Thanks for the re-affirmation. Sendmail, Procmail, Courier IMAP and OpenLDAP are being used now instead of Exchange. We're not missing the shared calendars and now whether or not our mail system is about to puke is one less thing I have to worry about. I've never found Sendmail to be reliable, but compared to Exchange, it definitely is an improvement. Fwiw, from my point of view everything else on Unix (Exim, Postfix, qmail at least) look more secure, reliable, and faster, too. If you really want to make use of those shared calendars or other groupware functionality, you'd have to use add-on or even custom programs for Outlook and Exchange that - in my case - turned out to be non-portable across various versions of Outlook and costing _considerably_more_money_ than the Exchange server itself. Just my 2 cents. Exchange 5.5 for me was always a ticking timebomb, It was... Sometimes it would just stop accepting connections, sometimes only for particular users, and every now and then, the SMTP engine crashed, not to mention all the ways to 0wn that beast, together with the underlying box... :-( Best, --Toni++
Re: What to do with those MS Exchange Servers?
Hi, Toni, on Mittwoch, 26. Mai 2004 at 16:54 you wrote to amanda-users: TM On Wed, 26.05.2004 at 16:34:37 +0200, Stefan G. Weichinger [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Subject: What to do with those MS Exchange Servers? TM to answer this question first: Dispose of them and upgrade to a decent TM Unix mail system! TM ...ok, just joking... I am at the first step there: Moving things to a Samba-server and back it up with AMANDA. They don't have ANY Linux/UNIX in their environment, so they don't trust it. Yet. Maybe I can tell you about some Exchange Server erased - Linux installed-news earlier than expected ;-) confronted with the question how to backup a MS Exchange Server ! TM It would help to know the version of Exchange that you have. Afaik TM there are significant differenes in behaviour between the various TM versions. I have already requested that info ... seems to be 5.5 from what I researched until now. MS Exchange seems to only be able to dump ONE BIG FAT dumpfile, from which you can only recover ALL the server. TM True for 5.5 afair - I managed one for about 1.5 yrs. 5.5 again. If you only need/want to restore SOME mails, this does not work. TM Right. Brrr... Correct me on this, it's hard to believe for me anyway. TM No. Exchange 5.5 has a binary blob which holds almost all data, and a TM few small files around it. Can't remember exactly, and it's not in my TM responsibility anymore. The good thing is that I don't HAVE TO mess with it, as the first steps will be fileserving and backup, as told above ... ;-) -- best regards, Stefan Stefan G. Weichinger mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: What to do with those MS Exchange Servers?
Toni Mueller wrote: If you really want to make use of those shared calendars or other groupware functionality, you'd have to use add-on or even custom programs for Outlook and Exchange that - in my case - turned out to be non-portable across various versions of Outlook and costing _considerably_more_money_ than the Exchange server itself. A few years ago, my manager wanted to switch from unix mail to Exchange just because of the calendar feature. (That's what managers are for!) I found this great package just before killing myself: http://www.math.utexas.edu/users/mzou/webCal/index.html We're still using it. -- Paul Bijnens, XplanationTel +32 16 397.511 Technologielaan 21 bus 2, B-3001 Leuven, BELGIUMFax +32 16 397.512 http://www.xplanation.com/ email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** * I think I've got the hang of it now: exit, ^D, ^C, ^\, ^Z, ^Q, F6, * * quit, ZZ, :q, :q!, M-Z, ^X^C, logoff, logout, close, bye, /bye, * * stop, end, F3, ~., ^]c, +++ ATH, disconnect, halt, abort, hangup, * * PF4, F20, ^X^X, :D::D, KJOB, F14-f-e, F8-e, kill -1 $$, shutdown, * * kill -9 1, Alt-F4, Ctrl-Alt-Del, AltGr-NumLock, Stop-A, ...* * ... Are you sure? ... YES ... Phew ... I'm out * ***
Calendaring, was: Re: What to do with those MS Exchange Servers?
Hi Paul, On Wed, 26.05.2004 at 18:16:08 +0200, Paul Bijnens [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Toni Mueller wrote: If you really want to make use of those shared calendars or other groupware functionality, you'd have to use add-on or even custom programs for Outlook and Exchange that - in my case - turned out to be non-portable across various versions of Outlook and costing _considerably_more_money_ than the Exchange server itself. A few years ago, my manager wanted to switch from unix mail to Exchange just because of the calendar feature. (That's what managers are for!) yes, I know... I found this great package just before killing myself: http://www.math.utexas.edu/users/mzou/webCal/index.html We're still using it. Thanks for the link (I guess I came across this one before). The thing is that you sometimes have to work with people who are really computer illiterate, and also want some workflow stuff... FWIW, we're currently looking at OpenGroupware for this purpose. Best, --Toni++
Re: What to do with those MS Exchange Servers?
I've done the switch from MS Exchange / WinNT Domain based Network Shares to Linux. I'd do the Samba thing first. Both the mail and the Samba were big deals, but the Samba move involved a lot less interaction with users, which made it seem to go better in their eyes. The problem with the move from Exchange, is if you try to keep Outlook (which we did), things will go poorly. Features don't work the same when it's not connected to an Exchange server, so obviously that means the new system is broken. Not to mention the strange issues Outlook has with IMAP (Have to delete -then- purge), unexpected disconnects, crashing on Excel imports, etc. And then if -anything- goes wrong with the mail, say a message bounced because of miss-spelled address, or someone who said they'd email but didn't, immediately it's the new mail systems fault. No time is spent entertaining any other options. Because we kept outlook, there is a perception that the mail system is flaky, when infact it hasn't once gone down, or lost a message (or have any message been lost in the move). It's tough to stomach when you consider all the time that was put in to make sure the backend works flawlessly. Very off topic.. Sorry. Be careful though, keeping Outlook can sink the ship if everyone involved doesn't realize how it'll change the operation. I wish I would have pushed an alternate email client harder. Samba move went flawlessly though. Samba 3 is pretty damn slick, no one knew the change happened, so no one knew they should have been complaining about how it's broken. Hurray for being a sys admin. Chris And of course this NT replacement is backed up with Amanda, which replaced Seagate Backup Exec. On May 26, 2004 10:09 am, Stefan G. Weichinger wrote: Hi, Toni, on Mittwoch, 26. Mai 2004 at 16:54 you wrote to amanda-users: TM On Wed, 26.05.2004 at 16:34:37 +0200, Stefan G. Weichinger [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Subject: What to do with those MS Exchange Servers? TM to answer this question first: Dispose of them and upgrade to a decent TM Unix mail system! TM ...ok, just joking... I am at the first step there: Moving things to a Samba-server and back it up with AMANDA. They don't have ANY Linux/UNIX in their environment, so they don't trust it. Yet. Maybe I can tell you about some Exchange Server erased - Linux installed-news earlier than expected ;-) confronted with the question how to backup a MS Exchange Server ! TM It would help to know the version of Exchange that you have. Afaik TM there are significant differenes in behaviour between the various TM versions. I have already requested that info ... seems to be 5.5 from what I researched until now. MS Exchange seems to only be able to dump ONE BIG FAT dumpfile, from which you can only recover ALL the server. TM True for 5.5 afair - I managed one for about 1.5 yrs. 5.5 again. If you only need/want to restore SOME mails, this does not work. TM Right. Brrr... Correct me on this, it's hard to believe for me anyway. TM No. Exchange 5.5 has a binary blob which holds almost all data, and a TM few small files around it. Can't remember exactly, and it's not in my TM responsibility anymore. The good thing is that I don't HAVE TO mess with it, as the first steps will be fileserving and backup, as told above ... ;-)
Re: What to do with those MS Exchange Servers?
Hi, Chris, on Mittwoch, 26. Mai 2004 at 18:36 you wrote to amanda-users: CC I've done the switch from MS Exchange / WinNT Domain based Network Shares to CC Linux. CC I'd do the Samba thing first. Both the mail and the Samba were big deals, but CC the Samba move involved a lot less interaction with users, which made it seem CC to go better in their eyes. I once switched a server to Samba, moved data back, turned monitor off and left. Half a year later they called me to ask how to reboot the server ;-) (It was the app's fault then) CC The problem with the move from Exchange, is if you try to keep Outlook (which CC we did), things will go poorly. Features don't work the same when it's not CC connected to an Exchange server, so obviously that means the new system is CC broken. Not to mention the strange issues Outlook has with IMAP (Have to CC delete -then- purge), unexpected disconnects, crashing on Excel imports, etc. CC And then if -anything- goes wrong with the mail, say a message bounced because CC of miss-spelled address, or someone who said they'd email but didn't, CC immediately it's the new mail systems fault. No time is spent entertaining CC any other options. Because we kept outlook, there is a perception that the CC mail system is flaky, when infact it hasn't once gone down, or lost a message CC (or have any message been lost in the move). It's tough to stomach when you CC consider all the time that was put in to make sure the backend works CC flawlessly. Thanks for all your comments ... this will help me in offering a way to go. CC Very off topic.. Sorry. Be careful though, keeping Outlook can sink the ship CC if everyone involved doesn't realize how it'll change the operation. I wish I CC would have pushed an alternate email client harder. CC Samba move went flawlessly though. Samba 3 is pretty damn slick, no one knew CC the change happened, so no one knew they should have been complaining about CC how it's broken. Hurray for being a sys admin. Yes, I like that piece of software, too ;-) CC And of course this NT replacement is backed up with Amanda, which replaced CC Seagate Backup Exec. Hey, it's on-topic again ! -- best regards, Stefan Stefan G. Weichinger mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: What to do with those MS Exchange Servers?
On Wednesday 26 May 2004 12:14, Stefan G. Weichinger wrote: Hi, Chris, on Mittwoch, 26. Mai 2004 at 17:29 you wrote to amanda-users: CC Not being able to restore specific messages easily was one of the reasons we CC moved away from Exchange 5.5. CC I was by no means an Exchange expert, but I agree with Toni that moving to CC something UNIX based will make your life easier. As told in the other reply I don't have to touch that thing right now ... Just to know and tell the client: How difficult/lengthy/expensive ( ;-) )/risky is it to move over? We are talking about ~25 users here, BTW .. qmail can do that in its sleep, and scales to very large numbers of accounts just fine. It also has some decent spam filters that can be used to sort most of the spam/viri to someplace where you can go over it looking for the occasional nugget of gold while you are highlighting dozens at a time for the delete key. (getting VERY offtopic here, you see ? ;-) ) CC The flexibility of having each message in a file (using Maildir) makes CC restores of specific messages or folders incredibly easy. The mailserver CC never has to go down, and I don't need to worry about making sure I'm using CC Exchange compatible backup software. I still don't want to believe that this thing is not able to export one file per mail ... on the other hand, it's MS. CC Just my 2 cents. Exchange 5.5 for me was always a ticking timebomb, as it was CC with the administrators before me. When things would break, all you had to CC work with were error codes that never matched anything on Google or the MS CC knowledgebase, and you're left with no other options than to call MS support. CC We wouldn't even consider Exchange 2003 because of that. I think I will just store this thread for the next meeting ;-) Anything M$ related *can* be a time bomb. OTOH, a well written app can run for the 46+ days it takes the tick counter in W95 to roll over, killing the machine as it does. But then that SW (a tv newsroom news manager) cost us $2200+ a month too. If it sneezed at 3am it got fixed. If it sneezed at 3pm, they expected to get sued. :) -- Cheers, Gene There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order. -Ed Howdershelt (Author) 99.23% setiathome rank, not too shabby for a WV hillbilly Yahoo.com attorneys please note, additions to this message by Gene Heskett are: Copyright 2004 by Maurice Eugene Heskett, all rights reserved.
Re: What to do with those MS Exchange Servers?
Gene Heskett wrote: qmail can do that in its sleep, and scales to very large numbers of accounts just fine. ...but it also can be a hassle to set up and maintain thanks to djb's repackaging restrictions. we used it for awhile but switched to alternatives like courier and postfix, which are included as packages in our linux distros. Anything M$ related *can* be a time bomb. or, worse yet, silent corruption that you never even know about. during our move from exchange 5.5 to courier, we discovered silent, unrecoverable corruption in the message database that would have gone unnoticed had we not exported the entire mess to another system.
Re: What to do with those MS Exchange Servers?
On Wednesday 26 May 2004 13:33, lloyd wrote: Gene Heskett wrote: qmail can do that in its sleep, and scales to very large numbers of accounts just fine. ...but it also can be a hassle to set up and maintain thanks to djb's repackaging restrictions. I wasn't aware that Daniel had any such restrictions regarding his distro of qmail. OTOH his docs are a bit concise, requiring extended study before starting to set it up. and Daniel hates to get help me messages as he is (in his mind) way above being asked to explain his software. We've been running it at the tv station since about 97 or 98. The machine got replaced with a faster one about 2 years ago, but the only downtime was back when the box was running RH6.something and someone came in thru the bind backdoor and had a rootkit half installed when we discovered the hanky-panky and rebooted it. Then we updated bind, and cleaned up his mess, which took about 2 days (the perp had replaced all the usual sytsem snooper utils with the usual rootkit subs that can't see what he is doing, but we did it without another reboot. AFAQmail is concerned, once properly configured, its done nothing but 'just work'(tm) :-) What maintainance? I doubt if Jim has done anything to it but adjust the spam filters, and add and delete users as employees come and go in the last 5 years. we used it for awhile but switched to alternatives like courier and postfix, which are included as packages in our linux distros. Anything M$ related *can* be a time bomb. or, worse yet, silent corruption that you never even know about. during our move from exchange 5.5 to courier, we discovered silent, unrecoverable corruption in the message database that would have gone unnoticed had we not exported the entire mess to another system. -- Cheers, Gene There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order. -Ed Howdershelt (Author) 99.23% setiathome rank, not too shabby for a WV hillbilly Yahoo.com attorneys please note, additions to this message by Gene Heskett are: Copyright 2004 by Maurice Eugene Heskett, all rights reserved.
Re: What to do with those MS Exchange Servers?
Just for the record, and please, let's discuss MTAs on other lists... On Wed, 26.05.2004 at 16:21:10 -0400, Gene Heskett [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Wednesday 26 May 2004 12:14, Stefan G. Weichinger wrote: We are talking about ~25 users here, BTW .. If you have some kind of *nix box, be sure to get at least a P1-133 for this kind of task... you get the idea. qmail can do that in its sleep, and scales to very large numbers of accounts just fine. It also has some decent spam filters that can be These are not included in the original package. qmail is for people who half know how to use patch and say make, but in my experience usually 99.9% maintenance free after setting up. Anything M$ related *can* be a time bomb. OTOH, a well written app 8-)) can run for the 46+ days it takes the tick counter in W95 to roll over, killing the machine as it does. But then that SW (a tv LOL - I didn't know that one... Best, --Toni++
