[AMRadio] Zero beating
Does no one zero beat the station they are talking to anymore? Well, I know a lot do, however since I've gotten back on the air after 5 or 6 years of absence, I've noticed this seems to be a real problem nowadays. I truly think that if more AM'ers would practice this, we might hear less from the SSB stations, and conserve more BW in the area so that other AM QSO's could be established. There is one net in particular on Tuesday nights I know of that has AM'ers all over the so called AM window checking in. In this case, the net controller should instruct all stations to zero beat his signal, and do so several times during the net. During this net, I can't operate anywhere from 3880 to 3890. The net occurs on 3885, or rather that's where everyone should be. Zero beating is just one way we could improve relations with SSB ops, and ourselves... 73 Brian w5ami -- There is nothing more uncommon than common sense. -- Frank Lloyd Wright __ AMRadio mailing list List Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/amradio Partner Website: http://www.amfone.net Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.html Post: mailto:AMRadio@mailman.qth.net
RE: [AMRadio] Zero beating
For what ever the reason is, Zero Beating has always been problem. Certain people would complain about it back in the 60s. Or I should say the lack of zero beating has been a problem. Sometimes guys would be so far off frequency that they couldn't be heard. I have had a couple of rigs in the far past where the VFO zero beat in RCV mode was a KC or more removed from the XMT frequency. The trouble with one of the VFO's keying circuit was that it was keyed via the oscillator's cathode circuit. (Heath Kit I think) Anyway the spot switch on the front of the VFO had less resistance than the circuit that keyed it from the XMTR. The quick cure was to switch the VFO spot on before going to XMT mode. The next one that gave me trouble was a pulling VFO. That is RF was getting back into the VFO and pulling the frequency. XMTR tuning would change the VFO frequency while on the air. Amplitude Modulation of the final would cause the VFO to FM. The cure for this was to make the VFO double in frequency. That is to set the VFO to a 160 MTR frequency and double some where in a buffer stage to have a XMTR freq on 80 MTR. This is a good idea in any home brew XMTR project. Last trouble that you see the most of is power supply regulation. Both filament power and plate power to the VFO must be regulated stable. Too many times with store bought equipment, these things are overlooked and ignored. And I think there in lies 50% of the ZERO BEAT trouble. The rest of the time, when guys are off frequency, it is just plain carelessness and occasionally they are rock bound and not using a VFO. John, WA5BXO __ AMRadio mailing list List Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/amradio Partner Website: http://www.amfone.net Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.html Post: mailto:AMRadio@mailman.qth.net
Re: [AMRadio] Zero beating
I have a BC-221 here along with a freq. counter coupled to it. The 221 also couples close enough to my rx where I can use it to zero beat a signal heard and at the same time see the freq. on the counter. If the osc. in the tx does not get it perfect, I can immediately tune to the correct freq. I zeroed on the 221/counter as soon as I transmit. The Bc-221 is a handy piece of gear that many hams used to have as standard equipment, and can be found at hamfests for little money. I paid $15 for mine about 7 years ago. The freq counter was less than $50 used. Brian / w5ami -- There is nothing more uncommon than common sense. -- Frank Lloyd Wright __ AMRadio mailing list List Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/amradio Partner Website: http://www.amfone.net Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.html Post: mailto:AMRadio@mailman.qth.net
Re: [AMRadio] Zero beating
Brian, You are dead on of course, and we should do better. When it comes to preserving a frequency when on AM, and trying to keep SSB stations from zero beating us, we do pretty well just the way we are!! Go a step further and run a BC-375 or BC-223 on a windy day (MOPA design frequency shifts with antenna moving around) and we can really hold the frequencies from 3380 to 3890 when centered on 3885. ;-) I will do better, thanks for asking.. Regards, Jim JKO - Original Message From: A.R.S. - W5AMI [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Discussion of AM Radio in the Amateur Service amradio@mailman.qth.net Sent: Monday, October 16, 2006 11:04:48 AM Subject: [AMRadio] Zero beating Does no one zero beat the station they are talking to anymore? Well, I know a lot do, however since I've gotten back on the air after 5 or 6 years of absence, I've noticed this seems to be a real problem nowadays. I truly think that if more AM'ers would practice this, we might hear less from the SSB stations, and conserve more BW in the area so that other AM QSO's could be established. There is one net in particular on Tuesday nights I know of that has AM'ers all over the so called AM window checking in. In this case, the net controller should instruct all stations to zero beat his signal, and do so several times during the net. During this net, I can't operate anywhere from 3880 to 3890. The net occurs on 3885, or rather that's where everyone should be. Zero beating is just one way we could improve relations with SSB ops, and ourselves... 73 Brian w5ami -- There is nothing more uncommon than common sense. -- Frank Lloyd Wright __ AMRadio mailing list List Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/amradio Partner Website: http://www.amfone.net Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.html Post: mailto:AMRadio@mailman.qth.net __ AMRadio mailing list List Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/amradio Partner Website: http://www.amfone.net Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.html Post: mailto:AMRadio@mailman.qth.net
Re: [AMRadio] Zero beating
I was talking with a couple of guys up here on Saturday on 3.888 and had to ask one of the guys to come up onto our frequency because he was on 85. If I jump right on the air without letting the rig warm up for a bit, I wander around also. Another side of it though, is the SSB stations who zero-beat an AM qso and interfere that way. Had several doing this last week. So some of the guys tune just slightly off one way or the other, to make this a less-desirable option. But we're talking a few cycles, not 5-6 kcs. Sure, they can notch out the main carrier, but notching out several slightly different ones isn't quite as easy. From what I heard last night, the increase in phone spectrum won't stop the few lids who want to intentionally interfere. They sought out AMers no matter where they went. It's not a space issue for them, it's a poor attitude and minimal (if any) education. ~ Todd KA1KAQ __ AMRadio mailing list List Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/amradio Partner Website: http://www.amfone.net Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.html Post: mailto:AMRadio@mailman.qth.net
Re: [AMRadio] Zero beating
When we can't get some stations to clean up their signals, why would I want to start another controversy? I have heard stations say, I am crystal controlled. So if there is activity on 3.878 real wide and I start up on 3.881, what should I do? I try to be reasonable about this, but sometimes my old hands can zero on my 755A VFO. I do promise to try though. 73 Jim W5JO I have a BC-221 here along with a freq. counter coupled to it. The 221 also couples close enough to my rx where I can use it to zero beat a signal heard and at the same time see the freq. on the counter. If the osc. in the tx does not get it perfect, I can immediately tune to the correct freq. I zeroed on the 221/counter as soon as I transmit. The Bc-221 is a handy piece of gear that many hams used to have as standard equipment, and can be found at hamfests for little money. I paid $15 for mine about 7 years ago. The freq counter was less than $50 used. Brian / w5ami __ AMRadio mailing list List Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/amradio Partner Website: http://www.amfone.net Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.html Post: mailto:AMRadio@mailman.qth.net
Re: [AMRadio] Zero beating
Brian w5ami says: Zero beating is just one way we could improve relations with SSB ops, and ourselves... Reply by Jim, WD5JKO One nice thing about the Central electronics 20A is the 'CAL' position. In this mode, you spot the VFO to the received signal, and there is enough RF output to drive a frequency counter. This is done without keying the TR relay. There also is a level control so you can better match the transmitter VFO spotting level to the received signal level. This way an S-5 signal can be zeroed to just as well as an S9+40 signal. The VFO operates continuously and is beat against a 9 Mhz crystal. Keeping the VFO running, and out of band is pretty nice. My VFO, a CE modified BC-458 drifts down about 300hz from a cold start (80m). The biggest problem I have in a round table is knowing who to zero beat. Then when the long skip comes in, and I am talking local, I often find that zeroing to the long skip signal helps ease the local copy. If we channelized say every 5 Khz, then we would all know what frequency we should be on, i.e., 3880, 85, 90, etc. No 100% answers for all situations... Regards, Jim __ AMRadio mailing list List Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/amradio Partner Website: http://www.amfone.net Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.html Post: mailto:AMRadio@mailman.qth.net
RE: [AMRadio] Zero beating
Its easy to be critical. I hear and have worked people way off frequency, over modulated, way under modulated, people with really wide signals, people with truly nasty sounding audio, etc. Some don't like to get reports of the above, and will not believe such a report. Others are more open minded. Some run old crazy lash ups, or develop a problem while on the air, and some ricebox rigs have odd frequency offsets. I run a freq counter (you can get one cheap), used to use a ricebox exciter with a digital frequency display, scope to look at modulation (both TX and RX), and a mod monitor with audio output to the headphones. Others just have a DX100 and an old receiver that only displays what PART of 40 meters you might be on... Now that I am using a 32V3 as an exciter, I check the TX freq often, it does not drift much, but you never know... Brett N2DTS -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of A.R.S. - W5AMI Sent: Monday, October 16, 2006 12:05 PM To: Discussion of AM Radio in the Amateur Service Subject: [AMRadio] Zero beating Does no one zero beat the station they are talking to anymore? Well, I know a lot do, however since I've gotten back on the air after 5 or 6 years of absence, I've noticed this seems to be a real problem nowadays. I truly think that if more AM'ers would practice this, we might hear less from the SSB stations, and conserve more BW in the area so that other AM QSO's could be established. There is one net in particular on Tuesday nights I know of that has AM'ers all over the so called AM window checking in. In this case, the net controller should instruct all stations to zero beat his signal, and do so several times during the net. During this net, I can't operate anywhere from 3880 to 3890. The net occurs on 3885, or rather that's where everyone should be. Zero beating is just one way we could improve relations with SSB ops, and ourselves... 73 Brian w5ami -- There is nothing more uncommon than common sense. -- Frank Lloyd Wright __ AMRadio mailing list List Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/amradio Partner Website: http://www.amfone.net Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.html Post: mailto:AMRadio@mailman.qth.net __ AMRadio mailing list List Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/amradio Partner Website: http://www.amfone.net Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.html Post: mailto:AMRadio@mailman.qth.net
Re: [AMRadio] Zero beating
From: Todd, KA1KAQ [EMAIL PROTECTED] Another side of it though, is the SSB stations who zero-beat an AM qso and interfere that way. Had several doing this last week. So some of the guys tune just slightly off one way or the other, to make this a less-desirable option. But we're talking a few cycles, not 5-6 kcs. Sure, they can notch out the main carrier, but notching out several slightly different ones isn't quite as easy. From what I heard last night, the increase in phone spectrum won't stop the few lids who want to intentionally interfere. They sought out AMers no matter where they went. It's not a space issue for them, it's a poor attitude and minimal (if any) education. Then the slopbuckets intentionally zero in on the AM carriers, it's time for the old tactic Timtron calls exit stage left. Otherwise, I agree it's good practice for everyone in a QSO to stay zero beat. My only problem is that with some antennas, the VFO signal isn't strong enough to hear in the rx and I have to temporarily switch to a different antenna while zero-beating. With the advent of transceivers, many of the newer hams don't have a clue to the concept of zero-beating. Don k4kyv __ AMRadio mailing list List Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/amradio Partner Website: http://www.amfone.net Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.html Post: mailto:AMRadio@mailman.qth.net
Re: [AMRadio] Zero beating
With the advent of transceivers, many of the newer hams don't have a clue to the concept of zero-beating. Don k4kyv How true! Imagine those guys zero-beating a BW 5100B to an SX 117 on SSB. Jim W5JO __ AMRadio mailing list List Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/amradio Partner Website: http://www.amfone.net Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.html Post: mailto:AMRadio@mailman.qth.net
