Re: [AMRadio] ARRL Great Lakes Director on IARU Bandplan
Absolutely, believe the ARRL President; he was there. As far as 80% versus 20%; why pay for it if you can get the benefits for free. But, only up to a point. Pete, wa2cwa On Tue, 27 Nov 2007 15:20:49 -0500 "Todd, KA1KAQ" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: >> > I see no conspiracy here either, Pete. It's not my thing. (o: But > 'probably' and 'may' in your estimation holds just as much or > little > water as 'VJB's comments, since neither of you were there. > > The main difference is, you have faith and trust in the ARRL. I do > not. Apparently most other hams feel the same. Otherwise the ARRL > would count 80-90% of US hams as members, instead of 20% or so. > > ~ Todd, KA1KAQ __ Our Main Website: http://www.amfone.net AMRadio mailing list List Rules (must read!): http://w5ami.net/amradiofaq.html List Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/amradio Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.html Post: mailto:AMRadio@mailman.qth.net To unsubscribe, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body.
Re: [AMRadio] ARRL Great Lakes Director on IARU Bandplan
Todd, KA1KAQ wrote: The main difference is, you have faith and trust in the ARRL. I do not. Apparently most other hams feel the same. Otherwise the ARRL would count 80-90% of US hams as members, instead of 20% or so. count me as one who 'does not' have faith in the ARRL. Even in a democracy, majority rules. I do not believe that the ARRL holds the best of intentions for the whole of the Amateur community. -- Driving your AM Rig without a scope, is like driving your car at night, without headlights. (K4KYV) -- 73 = Best Regards, -Geoff/W5OMR __ Our Main Website: http://www.amfone.net AMRadio mailing list List Rules (must read!): http://w5ami.net/amradiofaq.html List Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/amradio Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.html Post: mailto:AMRadio@mailman.qth.net To unsubscribe, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body.
Re: [AMRadio] ARRL Great Lakes Director on IARU Bandplan
On Nov 27, 2007 1:37 PM, Peter Markavage <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > probably gathered up all the committee's comments and recommendations, > and prepared the final document for the IARU members. Depending on > committee protocol, he may have been the one who actually presented it > before all the IARU members. > I see no conspiracy here at least not from the ARRL participants at the > IARU. I see no conspiracy here either, Pete. It's not my thing. (o: But 'probably' and 'may' in your estimation holds just as much or little water as 'VJB's comments, since neither of you were there. The main difference is, you have faith and trust in the ARRL. I do not. Apparently most other hams feel the same. Otherwise the ARRL would count 80-90% of US hams as members, instead of 20% or so. ~ Todd, KA1KAQ __ Our Main Website: http://www.amfone.net AMRadio mailing list List Rules (must read!): http://w5ami.net/amradiofaq.html List Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/amradio Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.html Post: mailto:AMRadio@mailman.qth.net To unsubscribe, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body.
Re: [AMRadio] ARRL Great Lakes Director on IARU Bandplan
A lot of what Jim presented has also been discussed on amfone.net. You said: "The comments about no ARRL input to the restriction seems to fly in the face of what Paul 'VJB has reported hearing from the Mexican rep (possibly others?) confirming Rinaldo's push for it." ARRL's President's letter dated November 17, 2007, seems to indicate the Mexican rep's statements were taken out of context. Rinaldo, as secretary of the committee to take the already in existence Region 1 band plan and shape it for Region 2 with regional differences taken into account, probably gathered up all the committee's comments and recommendations, and prepared the final document for the IARU members. Depending on committee protocol, he may have been the one who actually presented it before all the IARU members. I see no conspiracy here at least not from the ARRL participants at the IARU. Pete, wa2cwa On Tue, 27 Nov 2007 09:20:07 -0500 "Todd, KA1KAQ" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > Well, it's the first time someone has explained more clearly the > reasoning (regulating body vs none) in assuring that it won't > impact > US or Canadian hams. Still doesn't make a lot of sense to sign onto > a > plan with clearly improper restrictions that could potentially be > applied to your region, since you agreed with it. > > The comments about no ARRL input to the restriction seems to fly in > the face of what Paul 'VJB has reported hearing from the Mexican > rep > (possibly others?) confirming Rinaldo's push for it. Considering > their > reputation for such nonsense, Mr Weaver should be more > understanding > and aware of the distrust brought onto the League by their own > actions > and attitudes. > > Interesting that he also sees it as a 'small flurry of concern by > some > AM colleagues'. Small compared to the number of licensed hams > perhaps? > Not so much when compared to ARRL membership numbers. 'Small' could > better describe the actual percentage of amateur population > choosing > League (mis)representation. > > Best part is his statement that he would vote against it. While I > still believe it's foolish to even go there in the first place, > declaring this position is more than many ARRL leaders are willing > to > do. > > Thanks for posting this, Steve. > > ~ Todd, KA1KAQ __ Our Main Website: http://www.amfone.net AMRadio mailing list List Rules (must read!): http://w5ami.net/amradiofaq.html List Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/amradio Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.html Post: mailto:AMRadio@mailman.qth.net To unsubscribe, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body.
RE: [AMRadio] ARRL Great Lakes Director on IARU Bandplan
All Mr. Sumner and his board have to do is take me up on my free offer of a Webinar at my expense. No strings, my engineers will set it up, all the ARRL team has to do is sit down in front of their computers, turn on a web cam and accept our questions in a rational and well though out manner. All "they" have to do is provide us with clear answers. Take one hour out of life and communicate with us so we can all get back to our rigs and AM. Unfortunately Mr. Sumner and his team have stone walled my offer and remain unwilling to speak to the membership in real time and provide clear credible answers. All the Best Ron Weaver W6OM www.qsl.net/w6om -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Peter Markavage Sent: Tuesday, November 27, 2007 10:09 AM To: amradio@mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: [AMRadio] ARRL Great Lakes Director on IARU Bandplan Hey Steve, I guess congrads on the promotion. Pete, wa2cwa On Tue, 27 Nov 2007 11:47:04 -0500 Warren Elly <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > Mr Johnson... > > Many thanks for your reply, the first the AM community has > received > one that was both civil and credible. I believe that some of your > fellow directors ought to be ashamed of themselves, and I hope you > > have seen some of their correspondence directed to us. Its very > disappointing, and has only served to reinforce the view that many > of > us have formed of the league through a lifetime of disappointment on > a > range of issues from incentive licensing, to bpl, to code > requirements, to PRB-1, to bandwidth issues. I think you misjudge > and > under estimate what you call a "small flurry of concern by some AM > > colleagues". Considering the current state of the hobby, the number > of > new licensees, and the fact that the great majority of us are aging > > and that a significant number of us collect and restore old gear, > the > league needs to turn this AM issue into a wake up call. > Most of us are long-time amateurs, who've been league > members nearly > all our lives. I signed up at age 12, three years before I got my > novice ticket. I've been licensed now over 40 years, and have > operated > AM continuously in one way or another over those years. I remain > convinced that the league would outlaw our part of the hobby if it > > could. I only maintain my membership so that I can have a voice and > > won't be dismissed as an "outsider". I think its sad that looking > back > at the issues over the years, I can't think of a single issue that > > left me feeling like the league was on my side as an amateur. > I think most of us would have felt much better if our arrl > > representatives at the IARU conference were a bit more informed, and > > put their intentions in voting for this proposal on the record. I > think we also have our doubts that there was not, in fact, some plan > > to use the IARU issue as a leg up to move closer to outlawing AM in > > the US. Mr. Rinaldo's role remains of interest, and is most > suspect. > As for the CQ editors path towards "bad journalism", as a > journalist > all my life, I must caution you that these things happen when one is > > unable to get the "whole" story. If the league was more forthcoming, > > and spoke with clarity and transparency, these things would not > happen. Its a shame that no logical, thinking person could avoid the > > same conclusions CQ reached, based on the "facts" at hand. What else > > are we to think? > Again, thank you for your frankness and willingness to > address the AM/ > Vintage radio community. I wish some of your candor would rub off on > > the rest. But I'd also urge you to weigh again the importance of a > > vital, active community in amateur radio that's much more than " > small > flurry" in the big picture. > > 73, > > Warren Elly W1GUD > Tampa, Florida __ Our Main Website: http://www.amfone.net AMRadio mailing list List Rules (must read!): http://w5ami.net/amradiofaq.html List Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/amradio Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.html Post: mailto:AMRadio@mailman.qth.net To unsubscribe, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body. __ Our Main Website: http://www.amfone.net AMRadio mailing list List Rules (must read!): http://w5ami.net/amradiofaq.html List Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/amradio Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.html Post: mailto:AMRadio@mailman.qth.net To unsubscribe, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body.
Re: [AMRadio] ARRL Great Lakes Director on IARU Bandplan
Hey Steve, I guess congrads on the promotion. Pete, wa2cwa On Tue, 27 Nov 2007 11:47:04 -0500 Warren Elly <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > Mr Johnson... > > Many thanks for your reply, the first the AM community has > received > one that was both civil and credible. I believe that some of your > fellow directors ought to be ashamed of themselves, and I hope you > > have seen some of their correspondence directed to us. Its very > disappointing, and has only served to reinforce the view that many > of > us have formed of the league through a lifetime of disappointment on > a > range of issues from incentive licensing, to bpl, to code > requirements, to PRB-1, to bandwidth issues. I think you misjudge > and > under estimate what you call a "small flurry of concern by some AM > > colleagues". Considering the current state of the hobby, the number > of > new licensees, and the fact that the great majority of us are aging > > and that a significant number of us collect and restore old gear, > the > league needs to turn this AM issue into a wake up call. > Most of us are long-time amateurs, who've been league > members nearly > all our lives. I signed up at age 12, three years before I got my > novice ticket. I've been licensed now over 40 years, and have > operated > AM continuously in one way or another over those years. I remain > convinced that the league would outlaw our part of the hobby if it > > could. I only maintain my membership so that I can have a voice and > > won't be dismissed as an "outsider". I think its sad that looking > back > at the issues over the years, I can't think of a single issue that > > left me feeling like the league was on my side as an amateur. > I think most of us would have felt much better if our arrl > > representatives at the IARU conference were a bit more informed, and > > put their intentions in voting for this proposal on the record. I > think we also have our doubts that there was not, in fact, some plan > > to use the IARU issue as a leg up to move closer to outlawing AM in > > the US. Mr. Rinaldo's role remains of interest, and is most > suspect. > As for the CQ editors path towards "bad journalism", as a > journalist > all my life, I must caution you that these things happen when one is > > unable to get the "whole" story. If the league was more forthcoming, > > and spoke with clarity and transparency, these things would not > happen. Its a shame that no logical, thinking person could avoid the > > same conclusions CQ reached, based on the "facts" at hand. What else > > are we to think? > Again, thank you for your frankness and willingness to > address the AM/ > Vintage radio community. I wish some of your candor would rub off on > > the rest. But I'd also urge you to weigh again the importance of a > > vital, active community in amateur radio that's much more than " > small > flurry" in the big picture. > > 73, > > Warren Elly W1GUD > Tampa, Florida __ Our Main Website: http://www.amfone.net AMRadio mailing list List Rules (must read!): http://w5ami.net/amradiofaq.html List Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/amradio Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.html Post: mailto:AMRadio@mailman.qth.net To unsubscribe, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body.
Re: [AMRadio] ARRL Great Lakes Director on IARU Bandplan
Hello Warren : Outstanding reply but i hope you sent it to the correct person Jim Weaver [EMAIL PROTECTED] he is the GL Director who sent it out to the members . I think he also put it on kyham.qth.net. 73 Tony QBE ZUT DE WA4JQS ANTHONY W. (Tony) DePrato WA4JQS EXTRA - HEAVY Since 1962 CQ DX HALL OF FAME # 35 A1-OP FISTS # 10573 SKCC #1227 F.O.P. DXCC PHONE- DXCC CW- DXCC RTTY- DXCC MIXED DXCC 40, 20, 15, 10 METERS South Sandwich Island Dxpedition Group CALLS HELD: WA4JQS/ZS1, WA4JQS/KC4, WA4JQS/4K1 ZD8JQS, V31SS, VP8BZL, VP8SSI, 3Y0PI __ Our Main Website: http://www.amfone.net AMRadio mailing list List Rules (must read!): http://w5ami.net/amradiofaq.html List Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/amradio Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.html Post: mailto:AMRadio@mailman.qth.net To unsubscribe, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body.
RE: [AMRadio] ARRL Great Lakes Director on IARU Bandplan
These are fantastic letters and hopefully puts this all to bed. I think this is a trusted reply and thankyou Warren for getting it. Bob W1PE -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] t [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] n.qth.net] On Behalf Of Warren Elly Sent: Tuesday, November 27, 2007 10:47 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: Discussion of AM Radio in the Amateur Service Subject: Re: [AMRadio] ARRL Great Lakes Director on IARU Bandplan Mr Johnson... Many thanks for your reply, the first the AM community has received one that was both civil and credible. I believe that some of your fellow directors ought to be ashamed of themselves, and I hope you have seen some of their correspondence directed to us. Its very disappointing, and has only served to reinforce the view that many of us have formed of the league through a lifetime of disappointment on a range of issues from incentive licensing, to bpl, to code requirements, to PRB-1, to bandwidth issues. I think you misjudge and under estimate what you call a "small flurry of concern by some AM colleagues". Considering the current state of the hobby, the number of new licensees, and the fact that the great majority of us are aging and that a significant number of us collect and restore old gear, the league needs to turn this AM issue into a wake up call. Most of us are long-time amateurs, who've been league members nearly all our lives. I signed up at age 12, three years before I got my novice ticket. I've been licensed now over 40 years, and have operated AM continuously in one way or another over those years. I remain convinced that the league would outlaw our part of the hobby if it could. I only maintain my membership so that I can have a voice and won't be dismissed as an "outsider". I think its sad that looking back at the issues over the years, I can't think of a single issue that left me feeling like the league was on my side as an amateur. I think most of us would have felt much better if our arrl representatives at the IARU conference were a bit more informed, and put their intentions in voting for this proposal on the record. I think we also have our doubts that there was not, in fact, some plan to use the IARU issue as a leg up to move closer to outlawing AM in the US. Mr. Rinaldo's role remains of interest, and is most suspect. As for the CQ editors path towards "bad journalism", as a journalist all my life, I must caution you that these things happen when one is unable to get the "whole" story. If the league was more forthcoming, and spoke with clarity and transparency, these things would not happen. Its a shame that no logical, thinking person could avoid the same conclusions CQ reached, based on the "facts" at hand. What else are we to think? Again, thank you for your frankness and willingness to address the AM/ Vintage radio community. I wish some of your candor would rub off on the rest. But I'd also urge you to weigh again the importance of a vital, active community in amateur radio that's much more than " small flurry" in the big picture. 73, Warren Elly W1GUD Tampa, Florida On Nov 26, 2007, at 10:57 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > Here are some comments from the Great Lakes Division Director, Jim > Weaver K8JE, regarding the IARU band plan proposal. > > > - - - - - - - - - > > +++ AM Privileges -- Under Attack? +++ > > Definitely not! > > A few members contacted me with questions about the possible impact on > US hams of a bandplan adopted by Region 2 of the International Amateur > Radio Union -- IARU. The answer to the question is that the Region 2 > bandplan has no impact on US hams. > > For background, the IARU is the International organization of national > Amateur Radio societies from around the world. These societies > include > the Radio Amateurs of Canada (RAC), the Radio Society of Great Britain > (RSGB) and the ARRL. Region 2 of the IARU covers the Western > hemisphere. IARU cannot issue legally-binding rules or regulations. > > There are three regions in the IARU. Each of the regions has a > voluntary bandplan. The Region 1 and Region 3 bandplans preceded the > Region 2 plan. IARU Region 2 held a conference a few weeks ago. > Among other actions, it adopted its new recommended bandplan during > this conference. > > It is critical to understand that this recommended bandplan has > absolutely no relevance to countries such as Canada and the US which > have federal agencies (e.g. the FCC) that define and regulate Amateur > Radio bands. In addition, IARU bandplans are merely recommendations > to > amateurs in countries that do not have such government agencies. > There > is no force of law behind the
Re: [AMRadio] ARRL Great Lakes Director on IARU Bandplan
Mr Johnson... Many thanks for your reply, the first the AM community has received one that was both civil and credible. I believe that some of your fellow directors ought to be ashamed of themselves, and I hope you have seen some of their correspondence directed to us. Its very disappointing, and has only served to reinforce the view that many of us have formed of the league through a lifetime of disappointment on a range of issues from incentive licensing, to bpl, to code requirements, to PRB-1, to bandwidth issues. I think you misjudge and under estimate what you call a "small flurry of concern by some AM colleagues". Considering the current state of the hobby, the number of new licensees, and the fact that the great majority of us are aging and that a significant number of us collect and restore old gear, the league needs to turn this AM issue into a wake up call. Most of us are long-time amateurs, who've been league members nearly all our lives. I signed up at age 12, three years before I got my novice ticket. I've been licensed now over 40 years, and have operated AM continuously in one way or another over those years. I remain convinced that the league would outlaw our part of the hobby if it could. I only maintain my membership so that I can have a voice and won't be dismissed as an "outsider". I think its sad that looking back at the issues over the years, I can't think of a single issue that left me feeling like the league was on my side as an amateur. I think most of us would have felt much better if our arrl representatives at the IARU conference were a bit more informed, and put their intentions in voting for this proposal on the record. I think we also have our doubts that there was not, in fact, some plan to use the IARU issue as a leg up to move closer to outlawing AM in the US. Mr. Rinaldo's role remains of interest, and is most suspect. As for the CQ editors path towards "bad journalism", as a journalist all my life, I must caution you that these things happen when one is unable to get the "whole" story. If the league was more forthcoming, and spoke with clarity and transparency, these things would not happen. Its a shame that no logical, thinking person could avoid the same conclusions CQ reached, based on the "facts" at hand. What else are we to think? Again, thank you for your frankness and willingness to address the AM/ Vintage radio community. I wish some of your candor would rub off on the rest. But I'd also urge you to weigh again the importance of a vital, active community in amateur radio that's much more than " small flurry" in the big picture. 73, Warren Elly W1GUD Tampa, Florida On Nov 26, 2007, at 10:57 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Here are some comments from the Great Lakes Division Director, Jim Weaver K8JE, regarding the IARU band plan proposal. - - - - - - - - - +++ AM Privileges -- Under Attack? +++ Definitely not! A few members contacted me with questions about the possible impact on US hams of a bandplan adopted by Region 2 of the International Amateur Radio Union -- IARU. The answer to the question is that the Region 2 bandplan has no impact on US hams. For background, the IARU is the International organization of national Amateur Radio societies from around the world. These societies include the Radio Amateurs of Canada (RAC), the Radio Society of Great Britain (RSGB) and the ARRL. Region 2 of the IARU covers the Western hemisphere. IARU cannot issue legally-binding rules or regulations. There are three regions in the IARU. Each of the regions has a voluntary bandplan. The Region 1 and Region 3 bandplans preceded the Region 2 plan. IARU Region 2 held a conference a few weeks ago. Among other actions, it adopted its new recommended bandplan during this conference. It is critical to understand that this recommended bandplan has absolutely no relevance to countries such as Canada and the US which have federal agencies (e.g. the FCC) that define and regulate Amateur Radio bands. In addition, IARU bandplans are merely recommendations to amateurs in countries that do not have such government agencies. There is no force of law behind the voluntary bandplans. The concern of some amateurs seems to be that the FCC will adopt the Region 2 bandplan; thereby reducing the US's frequency allocation for AM. One writer from the GLD said the FCC has previously adopted a number of practices recommended by the IARU. To this moment, he has not responded to my request to identify just which IARU recommended actions were picked up and adopted by the Commission. Similarly, a writer from outside the GLD has accused IARU President Larry Price, W4RA of a written attempt to manipulate International Treaty to reduce AM privileges. To date, he too, has not responded to my request for a reference to the source of his accusation. Finally, CQ Magazine has jumped into the fray by accusi
Re: [AMRadio] ARRL Great Lakes Director on IARU Bandplan
Well, it's the first time someone has explained more clearly the reasoning (regulating body vs none) in assuring that it won't impact US or Canadian hams. Still doesn't make a lot of sense to sign onto a plan with clearly improper restrictions that could potentially be applied to your region, since you agreed with it. The comments about no ARRL input to the restriction seems to fly in the face of what Paul 'VJB has reported hearing from the Mexican rep (possibly others?) confirming Rinaldo's push for it. Considering their reputation for such nonsense, Mr Weaver should be more understanding and aware of the distrust brought onto the League by their own actions and attitudes. Interesting that he also sees it as a 'small flurry of concern by some AM colleagues'. Small compared to the number of licensed hams perhaps? Not so much when compared to ARRL membership numbers. 'Small' could better describe the actual percentage of amateur population choosing League (mis)representation. Best part is his statement that he would vote against it. While I still believe it's foolish to even go there in the first place, declaring this position is more than many ARRL leaders are willing to do. Thanks for posting this, Steve. ~ Todd, KA1KAQ On Nov 26, 2007 10:57 PM, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > It is critical to understand that this recommended bandplan has > absolutely no relevance to countries such as Canada and the US which > have federal agencies (e.g. the FCC) that define and regulate Amateur > Radio bands. In addition, IARU bandplans are merely recommendations to > amateurs in countries that do not have such government agencies. There > is no force of law behind the voluntary bandplans. > The fact is that ARRL did not participate in developing this bandplan. > We had no representation on the bandplan committee. Could it be that > in reality, the plan was developed in its present form because the > delegates who drafted it believe this is the way it should be and that > there was no dastardly conspiracy after all? Or is it too hard to > believe in this day of ever-present conspiracy theories is it too much > to expect that some things are done in a fully responsible manner? > The bottom line to this small flurry of concern by some AM colleagues > is that the Region 2 bandplan represents nothing to worry about. The > IARU has no impact on US FCC regulations . . . the FCC has no apparent > intent to act against AM in the foreseeable future . . . the ARRL has > no thought of recommending the FCC take action against AM . . . and I > will vote against any effort to get ARRL to recommend action against > AM. __ Our Main Website: http://www.amfone.net AMRadio mailing list List Rules (must read!): http://w5ami.net/amradiofaq.html List Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/amradio Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.html Post: mailto:AMRadio@mailman.qth.net To unsubscribe, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body.
