[amsat-bb] Re: AO-51 V/S mode
Thanks for the many suggestion both on and off line. Hopefully I will be on for the coming week of V/S. Al W8KHP ___ Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
[amsat-bb] FW: ANS-221 AMSAT Weekly Bulletins
AMSAT NEWS SERVICE ANS-221 ANS is a free, weekly, news and information service of AMSAT North America, The Radio Amateur Satellite Corporation. ANS reports on the activities of a worldwide group of Amateur Radio operators who share an active interest in designing, building, launching and communicating through analog and digital Amateur Radio satellites. Please send any amateur satellite news or reports to: ans-edi...@amsat.org In this edition: * AMSAT-UK Colloquium Video and Powerpoint Available On-line * CW Contest Milestone * SpaceJam-3 Introduces Scouts to Amateur Radio in Space * UT Austin Requests Help to Track BEVO1 * Satellite shorts * ITAR Update * ARISS Status - 03 August 2009 SB SAT @ AMSAT $ANS-221.01 AMSAT-UK Colloquium Video and Powerpoint Available On-line AMSAT News Service Bulletin 221.01 From AMSAT HQ SILVER SPRING, MD. August 9, 2009 To All RADIO AMATEURS BID: $ANS-221.01 The videos of the presentations at this years successful AMSAT-UK Colloquium in Guildford are now available to watch on the British Amateur Television Club (BATC) website Among the fascinating video presentations are: + FUNcube, the new AMSAT-UK linear transponder satellite project by Graham Shirville G3VZV + AMSAT-NA Update by Drew Glasbrenner KO4MA + AMSAT-DL Update by Peter Guelzow DB2OS + Electronics and Teddy Bears: A Near-Space Adventure" by Ed Moore M0TEK and Fergus Noble M0NBL, Cambridge University + Engineers Wanted! Tempting Teenagers to Explore Technology by Garry Bulmer, Software Architect + Medium Earth Orbits by David Bowman G0MRF All 18 videos can be seen at http://www.batc.tv/ Click on the "Film Archive" icon on the left to see all the videos available then select the video you wish to see (they start with 2009 AMSAT). To see the video full screen click on the icon at the bottom of the video player. PDFs of the slides from the presentations can be found on the AMSAT-UK website at: http://www.uk.amsat.org/component/option,com_wrapper/Itemid,278/ Thanks to the BATC for recording and editing the videos (a time consuming job) as well providing this invaluable video service at batc.tv for the Amateur Satellite community. [ANS thanks Trevor, M5AKA for the above information] /EX SB SAT @ AMSAT $ANS-221.02 CW Contest Milestone AMSAT News Service Bulletin 221.02 From AMSAT HQ SILVER SPRING, MD. August 9, 2009 To All RADIO AMATEURS BID: $ANS-221.02 FOR RELEASE: Immediate (August 4, 2009) 2008 CQ World Wide CW Contest Marks Major Milestone for K0DQ Becomes Possibly the Only Person Ever to Win All Six Major Ham Radio Contests Scott Redd, K0DQ, operating the 2008 CW weekend of the CQ World Wide DX Contest from Aruba as P40Q, racked up over a million more points than his closest competitor in the Single-Operator Low Power Class, and became perhaps the only person ever to win single-op world championships in all six major ham radio DX contests. "I don't know of anyone else" who has won all the major contests, said CQWW Contest Director Bob Cox, K3EST, in announcing the results, which will be published in the September issue of CQ magazine. Scott had his first taste of contest victory back in 1966, as a young Navy officer posted to Uruguay and operating CX2CO in the phone weekend of the CQ World Wide DX Contest. Over the succeeding years, Scott worked his way through the Navy ranks to Vice Admiral and became Commander of the Fifth Fleet, then served as a civilian in the Iraq Coalition P rovisional Authority and as Director of the National Counterterrorism Center before retiring in late 2007. But ham radio and contesting were never far away, and operating from Mexico as XE1IIJ in the early 1970s, Scott won single-op world championships in the CQWW Phone Contest, the ARRL DX Phone and CW Contests and the CQ WPX Phone Contest. Thirty years later, when his professional life permitted a little more hamming time, Scott added the WPX CW crown as P41P, operating from P43P's station in Aruba, in 2002. The only prize that eluded him -- until now -- was the CQWW CW. "I've been trying like a son-of-a-gun to win (the) CQ World Wide CW," Scott commented in a 2008 interview with CQ. "I've come in number two, I've come in number three, but I've never won that one . so that's still my goal, every time I get close, in CQ World Wide CW, to win the world." When informed that he had finally achieved that goal, K0DQ said, "I guess the message is if you keep at it long enough good things happen. In this case, four decades. It's been a great ride ... and it's still magic!" CQ congratulates Scott -- already a member of the CQ Amateur Radio Hall of Fame, for his contesting achievements on top of all his other achievements. [ANS thanks CQ Magazine for the above information] /EX SB SAT @ AMSAT $ANS-221.03 SpaceJam-3 Introduces Scouts to Amateur Radio in Space AMSAT News Service Bulletin 221.03 From AMSAT HQ SILVER SPRING, MD. August 9, 20
[amsat-bb] New Cubesat - the Ultimate Fox Hunt
One university at this year's Utah Cubesat Workshop, is designing a re-entry cubesat. Talk about the ultimate ham radio fox hunt! Find this pebble somewhere over a few million square miles... The problem is having a transmitter to survive the re-entry... One figure is that about 300 Killowatt Hours of energy has to be disipated in a few minutes. Why is it that all re-entries always end in the ball of fire over just a few minutes. Why cannot the re-enetry energy be disipated over a longer period to make it more survivable. Of course, if they could, they would. It appears to be the nature of the beast. You are entering an ever denser medium, so the drag has to escallate and you end up with the 6/7 minute burn. What if the surface of the re-entry vehicle radically changed during the re-entry phase? As the density of the atomosphere increased, the surface area decreases. An ablative system that instead of burning off a thin skin of material as in most re-entry systems, you planned on burning off 95% of the original drag volume? What re-entry profile could be achieved Could we make a golfball core "pinger" that could survive? With the cheap $8k launches and only 3 month mission life, this idea of concentrating on making an interesting mission at the re-entry phase is a new opportunity.. The ultimate fox hunt? Bob, WB4APR ___ Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
[amsat-bb] FT-736r com port settings.
Hello everyone, Could some one tell me the com port settings for cat control of the FT-736r. Can't seem to find the settings for the computer, I believe it is 4800 baud but not sure about the rest of the settings.. Norman. ___ Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
[amsat-bb] Re: New Cubesat - the Ultimate Fox Hunt
Ok, Say can anyone find me this info? The shuttle average orbital speed is 17580 MPh. So launch starts at zero, and ends up at 17580 then coming back down goes from 17580 to zero. Ok, Now what I want is,, At Time = zero it's zero MPH, at t+1 min it's now at what altitude, and what speed? at T+2 min alt and speed? at T+3 in alt and speed continue all the way to orbit. Now do it the other way, at time od de orbit burn it's at what altitude and 17580 MPh, at t+ 1 min after burn it;'s at alt and speed, etc, all the way til it has landed, does anyone have this information? Joe Bob Bruninga wrote: >One university at this year's Utah Cubesat Workshop, is designing a re-entry >cubesat. > >Talk about the ultimate ham radio fox hunt! Find this pebble somewhere over a >few million square miles... > >The problem is having a transmitter to survive the re-entry... One figure is >that about 300 Killowatt Hours of energy has to be disipated in a few minutes. > >Why is it that all re-entries always end in the ball of fire over just a few >minutes. Why cannot the re-enetry energy be disipated over a longer period to >make it more survivable. Of course, if they could, they would. It appears to >be the nature of the beast. You are entering an ever denser medium, so the >drag has to escallate and you end up with the 6/7 minute burn. > >What if the surface of the re-entry vehicle radically changed during the >re-entry phase? As the density of the atomosphere increased, the surface area >decreases. An ablative system that instead of burning off a thin skin of >material as in most re-entry systems, you planned on burning off 95% of the >original drag volume? What re-entry profile could be achieved Could we make >a golfball core "pinger" that could survive? > >With the cheap $8k launches and only 3 month mission life, this idea of >concentrating on making an interesting mission at the re-entry phase is a new >opportunity.. > >The ultimate fox hunt? > >Bob, WB4APR >___ >Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. >Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! >Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb > > > > > >No virus found in this incoming message. >Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >Version: 8.5.406 / Virus Database: 270.13.48/2292 - Release Date: 08/09/09 >08:08:00 > > > ___ Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
[amsat-bb] Re: FT-736r com port settings.
Hi Norman, According to my manual, it's 4800bps, 8 bits, no parity, and 2 stop bits. Greg KO6TH > Date: Sun, 9 Aug 2009 15:19:23 -0400 > From: ve3...@gmail.com > To: AMSAT-BB@amsat.org > Subject: [amsat-bb] FT-736r com port settings. > > Hello everyone, > > Could some one tell me the com port settings for cat control of the FT-736r. > Can't seem to find the settings for the computer, I believe it is 4800 baud > but not > sure about the rest of the settings.. > > Norman. > ___ > Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! > Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb _ Windows Live™: Keep your life in sync. http://windowslive.com/explore?ocid=PID23384::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:NF_BR_sync:082009 ___ Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
[amsat-bb] WD9EWK from DM54/DM55 - report
Hi! Yesterday's road trip out to DM54/DM55 had been on my mind since my July 2008 road trip around northern Arizona. I have worked from most of the Arizona grids, and had thought I would need to make a multi- day road trip along the Arizona/New Mexico border to reach these two grids. After lots of looking at maps, I found a couple of spots near the I-40 freeway in eastern Arizona that could be reached in a day- trip from Phoenix. I e-mailed a few people, asking if they needed either grid (or both) and if they were available to be on the radio if I went out there. Things fell in place, leading to yesterday's 558.8-mile/899km road trip. After spending some time this morning transferring the QSOs from my mini-logbook to my log spreadsheet, I saw that I made a total of 69 QSOs. I worked 4 passes from the DM54bx/DM55ba grid boundary (2 AO-27 passes, 1 pass each on AO-51 and SO-50), and one shallow AO-51 pass from a location northeast of the grid boundary in grid DM55ba. The location that was not on the grid boundary was a different sort of boundary - the line between Navajo and Apache counties. There were 56 QSOs made at the grid boundary, and 13 more from the county line. For all of these passes, I used my normal FM-satellite setup when I do these road trips - Icom IC-2720H 2m/70cm FM mobile transceiver, Elk Antennas handheld 2m/70cm log periodic, Sony ICD-P620 digital audio recorder. I had another mobile radio as a backup (Yaesu FT-8800R) as well as assorted HTs I could have used in case of a problem with the IC-2720H. Here's a summary of activities from the two locations... * east of Goodwater, Arizona, along old US-66 east of I-40 exit 303 in Navajo County (grids DM54bx and DM55ba) 35 0.000 N 109 53.745 W In recent weeks, I had identified this area as the easiest way to work from DM54/DM55 in a day-trip. This area is approximately 50 miles/80km west of the Arizona/New Mexico border, where there is a portion of the old US-66 highway next to the I-40 freeway. I was able to park at an Indian trading post to be on this grid boundary. This part of Arizona is on a plateau, a desert without cactus, but this particular spot is lower than the surrounding area. Except for shallow passes to the east or west (below 10 degrees elevation), it worked well. Once I parked and took the photos to establish my location, I waited for the first of two AO-27 passes at 2046 UTC. This old satellite has been performing well lately, and this was a busy pass covering almost all of North America while the repeater was on. I was able to work 21 stations during this pass, so I guess there was some interest in this location. :-) The second AO-27 pass to the west at 2226 UTC was not as crowded, with 8 more QSOs going into the log. This pass was the only time I worked a Canadian station at DM54/DM55 (VA6BMJ). Later in the afternoon, I worked two more passes from this spot - an AO-51 pass at 0042 UTC, followed by an SO-50 pass at 0137 UTC. The AO-51 pass was a very high pass, with maximum elevation of 75 degrees at that location. Other than a 3-minute span just after the midpoint of the pass when I could not hear myself through the satellite, this was another good pass - 17 more QSOs, with stations from all over the US and a couple of Mexicans. SO-50 at 0137 UTC put 10 more QSOs in the log, with more stations across the US plus a Mexican station. This made a total of 56 QSOs logged at the DM54bx/DM55ba grid boundary, not bad for a handful of passes during a single afternoon. I had mentioned before the trip that I might try working an earlier AO-51 pass from this spot. Had I stayed here, I would not have had a chance to see/hear the satellite, due to the local surroundings. That's why I moved up the road a few miles/km for that pass, and I apologize if that meant some of you were not able to work both of these grids while I was out there. There will be other trips I can make to this area, now that I know of a quick way to get to DM54 when there is no snow in northern or eastern Arizona. * Navajo/Apache county line in eastern Arizona, along old US-66 3.4 miles/5.5km east of I-40 exit 303 (grid DM55ba) 35 1.122 N 109 50.694 W Between the two AO-27 passes, I drove around the area to find a spot where I could possibly attempt a 7-degree AO-51 pass at 2306 UTC. This location was northeast of the grid-boundary spot, with a nice clear view down to the horizon toward the northeast - where AO-51 would be. Since the grid-boundary spot was not a location I could have tried a shallow pass, I had a choice move to a better spot, or take a long break between the last AO-27 pass and the high AO-51 pass around 0042 UTC. Not wanting to lose a chance to make QSOs and give out at least one of these two grids, I went down the road for this pass. The county line was at a cattle guard on the road. I found a marker on one side of the road that appeared to mark the county
[amsat-bb] keps
DRAGONSAT 1 35690U 09038B 09220.88464294 +.00022194 +0-0 +11580-3 0 00134 2 35690 051.6412 035.7633 0005116 115.3898 244.7640 15.80804251001483 ANDE DEB (POLLUX CYLIN) 1 35691U 09038C 09220.63328729 +.00034233 +0-0 +17771-3 0 00102 2 35691 051.6393 037.0865 0003255 069.0477 291.1106 15.80656066001419 ANDE DEB (CASTOR CYLIN) 1 35692U 09038D 09220.56928116 .00061066 0-0 30812-3 0 128 2 35692 051.6392 037.4098 0003437 055.7583 304.4121 15.81012975 1403 ANDE POLLUX SPHERE 1 35693U 09038E 09220.69780859 +.00019858 +0-0 +10642-3 0 00113 2 35693 051.6403 036.7728 0003745 062.1691 297.9845 15.80308849001421 ANDE CASTOR SPHERE 1 35694U 09038F 09220.69892186 +.00010960 +0-0 +61154-4 0 00122 2 35694 051.6414 036.7818 0004427 064.7435 295.4090 15.80038418001423 ANDE DEB (AVIONICS DECK) 1 35695U 09038G 09220.63530312 +.00026048 +0-0 +13883-3 0 00115 2 35695 051.6410 037.1071 0004454 066.2379 293.9201 15.80230919001416 -- Nigel A. Gunn, 1865 El Camino Drive, Xenia, OH 45385-1115, USA. tel +1 937 825 5032 Amateur Radio G8IFF W8IFF (was KC8NHF), e-mail ni...@ngunn.net www http://www.ngunn.net Member of ARRL, GQRP #11396, QRPARCI #11644, SOC #548, Flying Pigs QRP Club International #385, Dayton ARA #2128, AMSAT-NA LM-1691, AMSAT-UK 0182, MKARS, ALC, GCARES, XWARN. ___ Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
[amsat-bb] Re: New Cubesat - the Ultimate Fox Hunt
In a message dated 09/08/2009 19:42:06 GMT Standard Time, n...@mwt.net writes: Why is it that all re-entries always end in the ball of fire over just a few minutes. Why cannot the re-enetry energy be disipated over a longer period to make it more survivable. Of course, if they could, they would. It appears to be the nature of the beast. You are entering an ever denser medium, so the drag has to escallate and you end up with the 6/7 minute burn. > >What if the surface of the re-entry vehicle radically changed during the re-entry phase? As the density of the atomosphere increased, the surface area decreases. An ablative system that instead of burning off a thin skin of material as in most re-entry systems, you planned on burning off 95% of the original drag volume? What re-entry profile could be achieved Could we make a golfball core "pinger" that could survive? Or, the not so 'cube'sat structure is an aerodynamic shape made from a cast ceramic material which glides in at a shallow angle allowing the energy to be dissipated over a much longer period of time. OK the solar cells burn off but an internal antenna would be OK as ceramics are fairly transparent to RF and a battery would provide the final hour or so of tlm. Would love to see the temp readings as it comes down. Would not love to be on the final end of the trajectory when it arrives. David G0MRF ___ Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
[amsat-bb] Re: New Cubesat - the Ultimate Fox Hunt
Exactly David, This was my reasoning for trying to get the data I asked for in a earlier message. I have been asking this for Years and No one EVER has been able to give me this info. if i was a conspiracy guy i'd be in the boat with the moon landing guys that orbital space travel doesn't happen. Or at least manned never has happened, But i'm not. but i am frustrated that the speed vs altitude at take off and re entry sseems to be totally un available. because look at that at take off we go from zero to 17580 Mph in what 10 minutes or so and are in orbit. Yet the other way around gouing from 1780 to zero on 45 minutes causes the fireball effect with the friction. Why not on the way up? Thats what i want to be able ro read on the way up when it's at 60K feet it's moving at what speed, as wellas on the way down also, and every other possible altitude, I want to compare speeds at all altitudes. we can go from zero to 17580 in ten min on the way up with no fireball, but take a slower, 450% slower return rate and it almost fries to a crisp. Huh? Joe WB9SBD g0...@aol.com wrote: > > > >Or, the not so 'cube'sat structure is an aerodynamic shape made from a cast > ceramic material which glides in at a shallow angle allowing the energy to >be dissipated over a much longer period of time. >OK the solar cells burn off but an internal antenna would be OK as ceramics > are fairly transparent to RF and a battery would provide the final hour or >so of tlm. >Would love to see the temp readings as it comes down. >Would not love to be on the final end of the trajectory when it arrives. > >David G0MRF > >___ >Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. >Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! >Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb > > > > > >No virus found in this incoming message. >Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >Version: 8.5.406 / Virus Database: 270.13.48/2292 - Release Date: 08/09/09 >08:08:00 > > > ___ Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
[amsat-bb] Re: New Cubesat - the Ultimate Fox Hunt
Yeah, it might wind up being a super-sonic "Lawn Dart"! Jim KQ6EA --- On Sun, 8/9/09, g0...@aol.com wrote: From: g0...@aol.com Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: New Cubesat - the Ultimate Fox Hunt To: bruni...@usna.edu Cc: amsat-bb@amsat.org Date: Sunday, August 9, 2009, 4:31 PM In a message dated 09/08/2009 19:42:06 GMT Standard Time, n...@mwt.net writes: Why is it that all re-entries always end in the ball of fire over just a few minutes. Why cannot the re-enetry energy be disipated over a longer period to make it more survivable. Of course, if they could, they would. It appears to be the nature of the beast. You are entering an ever denser medium, so the drag has to escallate and you end up with the 6/7 minute burn. > >What if the surface of the re-entry vehicle radically changed during the re-entry phase? As the density of the atomosphere increased, the surface area decreases. An ablative system that instead of burning off a thin skin of material as in most re-entry systems, you planned on burning off 95% of the original drag volume? What re-entry profile could be achieved Could we make a golfball core "pinger" that could survive? Or, the not so 'cube'sat structure is an aerodynamic shape made from a cast ceramic material which glides in at a shallow angle allowing the energy to be dissipated over a much longer period of time. OK the solar cells burn off but an internal antenna would be OK as ceramics are fairly transparent to RF and a battery would provide the final hour or so of tlm. Would love to see the temp readings as it comes down. Would not love to be on the final end of the trajectory when it arrives. David G0MRF ___ Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb ___ Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
[amsat-bb] Re: New Cubesat - the Ultimate Fox Hunt
Hi Joe Check out this URL: http://www.aerospaceweb.org/question/spacecraft/q0183.shtml There is a table that shows the speed versus altitude for a shuttle launch. I think the key thing is that while it is in the thick part of the atmosphere ( I believe below 60k feet) the shuttle is going fairly slowly. It doesn't really get going until it is clear of the atmosphere. I'm just guessing that on the return trip it is still going very fast when it gets to the thick atmosphere and hence, since there is nothing to slow it down except the atmosphere, it gets very hot. Does this make sense? 73, Pete WA6WOA --- On Sun, 8/9/09, Joe wrote: From: Joe Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: New Cubesat - the Ultimate Fox Hunt To: g0...@aol.com Cc: amsat-bb@amsat.org Date: Sunday, August 9, 2009, 4:47 PM Exactly David, This was my reasoning for trying to get the data I asked for in a earlier message. I have been asking this for Years and No one EVER has been able to give me this info. if i was a conspiracy guy i'd be in the boat with the moon landing guys that orbital space travel doesn't happen. Or at least manned never has happened, But i'm not. but i am frustrated that the speed vs altitude at take off and re entry sseems to be totally un available. because look at that at take off we go from zero to 17580 Mph in what 10 minutes or so and are in orbit. Yet the other way around gouing from 1780 to zero on 45 minutes causes the fireball effect with the friction. Why not on the way up? Thats what i want to be able ro read on the way up when it's at 60K feet it's moving at what speed, as wellas on the way down also, and every other possible altitude, I want to compare speeds at all altitudes. we can go from zero to 17580 in ten min on the way up with no fireball, but take a slower, 450% slower return rate and it almost fries to a crisp. Huh? Joe WB9SBD g0...@aol.com wrote: > > > >Or, the not so 'cube'sat structure is an aerodynamic shape made from a cast > ceramic material which glides in at a shallow angle allowing the energy to >be dissipated over a much longer period of time. >OK the solar cells burn off but an internal antenna would be OK as ceramics > are fairly transparent to RF and a battery would provide the final hour or >so of tlm. >Would love to see the temp readings as it comes down. >Would not love to be on the final end of the trajectory when it arrives. > >David G0MRF > >___ >Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. >Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! >Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb > > > > > >No virus found in this incoming message. >Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >Version: 8.5.406 / Virus Database: 270.13.48/2292 - Release Date: 08/09/09 >08:08:00 > > > ___ Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb ___ Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
[amsat-bb] Re: New Cubesat - the Ultimate Fox Hunt
In the case of Delta II second stage tanks some analysis concluded that what allows them to survive reenty is that a hole initially burns in one end which results in a shape that creates a shockwave. The shockwave then deflects most of the heat around the tank. Some pictures if you're curious. http://orbitaldebris.jsc.nasa.gov/reentry/recovered.html Probably hard to implement on a sub-nanosat scale but suggests another approach. Lee On Sunday 09 August 2009 15:16:04 Bob Bruninga wrote: > What if the surface of the re-entry vehicle radically changed during the > re-entry phase? As the density of the atomosphere increased, the surface > area decreases. An ablative system that instead of burning off a thin skin > of material as in most re-entry systems, you planned on burning off 95% of > the original drag volume? What re-entry profile could be achieved Could > we make a golfball core "pinger" that could survive? > > With the cheap $8k launches and only 3 month mission life, this idea of > concentrating on making an interesting mission at the re-entry phase is a > new opportunity.. > > The ultimate fox hunt? > > Bob, WB4APR > ___ > Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! > Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb ___ Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
[amsat-bb] Re: New Cubesat - the Ultimate Fox Hunt
Ok we have half the numbers, This I also have gotten before a LOT, but coming back down, is no place. I want tosee these numbers. Pete Rowe wrote: >Hi Joe >Check out this URL: >http://www.aerospaceweb.org/question/spacecraft/q0183.shtml > >There is a table that shows the speed versus altitude for a shuttle launch. I >think the key thing is that while it is in the thick part of the atmosphere ( >I believe below 60k feet) the shuttle is going fairly slowly. It doesn't >really get going until it is clear of the atmosphere. > >I'm just guessing that on the return trip it is still going very fast when it >gets to the thick atmosphere and hence, since there is nothing to slow it down >except the atmosphere, it gets very hot. >Does this make sense? > >73, >Pete >WA6WOA > >--- On Sun, 8/9/09, Joe wrote: > >From: Joe >Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: New Cubesat - the Ultimate Fox Hunt >To: g0...@aol.com >Cc: amsat-bb@amsat.org >Date: Sunday, August 9, 2009, 4:47 PM > >Exactly David, > >This was my reasoning for trying to get the data I asked for in a >earlier message. > >I have been asking this for Years and No one EVER has been able to give >me this info. > >if i was a conspiracy guy i'd be in the boat with the moon landing guys >that orbital space travel doesn't happen. Or at least manned never has >happened, > >But i'm not. but i am frustrated that the speed vs altitude at take >off and re entry sseems to be totally un available. > >because look at that > >at take off we go from zero to 17580 Mph in what 10 minutes or so and >are in orbit. > >Yet the other way around gouing from 1780 to zero on 45 minutes causes >the fireball effect with the friction. > >Why not on the way up? > >Thats what i want to be able ro read on the way up when it's at 60K feet >it's moving at what speed, as wellas on the way down also, > >and every other possible altitude, > >I want to compare speeds at all altitudes. > >we can go from zero to 17580 in ten min on the way up with no fireball, >but take a slower, 450% slower return rate and it almost fries to a crisp. > >Huh? > >Joe WB9SBD > >g0...@aol.com wrote: > > > >> >>Or, the not so 'cube'sat structure is an aerodynamic shape made from a cast >>ceramic material which glides in at a shallow angle allowing the energy to >>be dissipated over a much longer period of time. >>OK the solar cells burn off but an internal antenna would be OK as ceramics >>are fairly transparent to RF and a battery would provide the final hour or >>so of tlm. >>Would love to see the temp readings as it comes down. >>Would not love to be on the final end of the trajectory when it arrives. >> >>David G0MRF >> >>___ >>Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. >>Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! >>Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb >> >> >> >> >> >>No virus found in this incoming message. >>Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >>Version: 8.5.406 / Virus Database: 270.13.48/2292 - Release Date: 08/09/09 >>08:08:00 >> >> >> >> >> >___ >Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. >Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! >Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb > > > > >___ >Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. >Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! >Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb > > > > > >No virus found in this incoming message. >Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >Version: 8.5.406 / Virus Database: 270.13.49/2293 - Release Date: 08/09/09 >18:10:00 > > > ___ Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
[amsat-bb] Re: New Cubesat - the Ultimate Fox Hunt
> at take off we go from zero to 17580 Mph > in what 10 minutes or so and are in orbit. > Yet the other way around going from 1780 > to zero in 45 minutes causes the fireball > effect with the friction. > > Why not on the way up? It does, its just that all the energy is being burned at the rear end of the rocket to produce the acceleration... see the flames... On the way down, you have to decelerate that same amount of acceleration in the opposite direction and remove all that LAUNCH energy, to come back down hence the flames. The difference is that going up, you are going slowly in the higher density atmosphere which is continually lessening as you go up letting you go faster and faster with less and less friction. THus, no multiplying build up of friction. Coming down, everything is against you. As you come down, into denser and denser atmosphere, the friction is increasing and increasing, the temperature building and building you are going slower and slower and falling faster and faster. Into one ultimate fireball. > we can go from zero to 17580 in ten min > on the way up with no fireball, but take > a slower, 450% slower return rate and it > almost fries to a crisp. Thats why I'm thinking there might be a way to change your drag coefficient as you come down to reduce the crescendo build up of heat and spread out the descent. But still, for something as small as a cubesat you still have to disipate about 300KWH of energy and even if you do this over an hour, thats still 300 killowatts of heat... (a number they used here in the presentation.. I'd like to see confirmation)... Still seems like a fireball.. Bob, WB4APR ___ Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
[amsat-bb] Re: New Cubesat - the Ultimate Fox Hunt
Yes this does make all the sence in the world, but why tho can no one find true actual data as this IS exactly what's hhappening? I can find hundreds of pages a of data on the way up but not one single one for data onthe way down, That I would love to see. Pete Rowe wrote: >Hi Joe >Check out this URL: >http://www.aerospaceweb.org/question/spacecraft/q0183.shtml > >There is a table that shows the speed versus altitude for a shuttle launch. I >think the key thing is that while it is in the thick part of the atmosphere ( >I believe below 60k feet) the shuttle is going fairly slowly. It doesn't >really get going until it is clear of the atmosphere. > >I'm just guessing that on the return trip it is still going very fast when it >gets to the thick atmosphere and hence, since there is nothing to slow it down >except the atmosphere, it gets very hot. >Does this make sense? > >73, >Pete >WA6WOA > >--- On Sun, 8/9/09, Joe wrote: > >From: Joe >Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: New Cubesat - the Ultimate Fox Hunt >To: g0...@aol.com >Cc: amsat-bb@amsat.org >Date: Sunday, August 9, 2009, 4:47 PM > >Exactly David, > >This was my reasoning for trying to get the data I asked for in a >earlier message. > >I have been asking this for Years and No one EVER has been able to give >me this info. > >if i was a conspiracy guy i'd be in the boat with the moon landing guys >that orbital space travel doesn't happen. Or at least manned never has >happened, > >But i'm not. but i am frustrated that the speed vs altitude at take >off and re entry sseems to be totally un available. > >because look at that > >at take off we go from zero to 17580 Mph in what 10 minutes or so and >are in orbit. > >Yet the other way around gouing from 1780 to zero on 45 minutes causes >the fireball effect with the friction. > >Why not on the way up? > >Thats what i want to be able ro read on the way up when it's at 60K feet >it's moving at what speed, as wellas on the way down also, > >and every other possible altitude, > >I want to compare speeds at all altitudes. > >we can go from zero to 17580 in ten min on the way up with no fireball, >but take a slower, 450% slower return rate and it almost fries to a crisp. > >Huh? > >Joe WB9SBD > >g0...@aol.com wrote: > > > >> >>Or, the not so 'cube'sat structure is an aerodynamic shape made from a cast >>ceramic material which glides in at a shallow angle allowing the energy to >>be dissipated over a much longer period of time. >>OK the solar cells burn off but an internal antenna would be OK as ceramics >>are fairly transparent to RF and a battery would provide the final hour or >>so of tlm. >>Would love to see the temp readings as it comes down. >>Would not love to be on the final end of the trajectory when it arrives. >> >>David G0MRF >> >>___ >>Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. >>Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! >>Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb >> >> >> >> >> >>No virus found in this incoming message. >>Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >>Version: 8.5.406 / Virus Database: 270.13.48/2292 - Release Date: 08/09/09 >>08:08:00 >> >> >> >> >> >___ >Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. >Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! >Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb > > > > >___ >Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. >Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! >Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb > > > > > >No virus found in this incoming message. >Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >Version: 8.5.406 / Virus Database: 270.13.49/2293 - Release Date: 08/09/09 >18:10:00 > > > ___ Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
[amsat-bb] Re: New Cubesat - the Ultimate Fox Hunt
Bob Bruninga wrote: >>at take off we go from zero to 17580 Mph >>in what 10 minutes or so and are in orbit. >>Yet the other way around going from 1780 >>to zero in 45 minutes causes the fireball >>effect with the friction. >> >>Why not on the way up? >> >> > >It does, its just that all the energy is being burned at the rear end of the >rocket to produce the acceleration... see the flames... On the way down, you >have to decelerate that same amount of acceleration in the opposite direction >and remove all that LAUNCH energy, to come back down hence the flames. > > No the flames are from friction with the atmosphere. if they had enough fuel they could do a 8 minute burn, and come straight down. The "Fuel" in this case is Gravity. The fuel on the way up is used to over come gravity. >The difference is that going up, you are going slowly in the higher density >atmosphere which is continually lessening as you go up letting you go faster >and faster with less and less friction. THus, no multiplying build up of >friction. > > But see where are the numbers to verify this? People make this statement all the time. but have yet to show any data that verifies this. Why is this soo hard to verify? >Coming down, everything is against you. As you come down, into denser and >denser atmosphere, the friction is increasing and increasing, the temperature >building and building you are going slower and slower and falling faster and >faster. Into one ultimate fireball. > > Yes and no, you are in free fall the whole time you are in orbit. > > >>we can go from zero to 17580 in ten min >>on the way up with no fireball, but take >>a slower, 450% slower return rate and it >>almost fries to a crisp. >> >> > >Thats why I'm thinking there might be a way to change your drag coefficient as >you come down to reduce the crescendo build up of heat and spread out the >descent. But still, for something as small as a cubesat you still have to >disipate about 300KWH of energy and even if you do this over an hour, thats >still 300 killowatts of heat... (a number they used here in the presentation.. >I'd like to see confirmation)... > > I'd like to see any data of speed vs altitude.. Joe >Still seems like a fireball.. > >Bob, WB4APR > > > > ___ Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
[amsat-bb] Re: New Cubesat - the Ultimate Fox Hunt
Joe and the group... Here is 25 year old data of STS5 http://www.habitablezone.com/columbia/Archive/Dryden/Documents/H-1254_Therma lResponseShuttleWingReentryHeading.pdf Go to page 7 of the PDF and see graph and you can take off altitude, velocity over time. Google is a wonderful thing. Google "reentry velocity altitude shuttle" But see where are the numbers to verify this? People make this statement all the time. but have yet to show any data that verifies this. Why is this soo hard to verify? ...Stuff deleted... I'd like to see any data of speed vs altitude.. Joe ___ Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
[amsat-bb] Re: New Cubesat - the Ultimate Fox Hunt
I'm crunching numbers right now, but just thought of something ICBM's If we were to nuke RUSSIA or visa versa, while these yes do not get to orbit, they do get to just shy of orbital velocity, and re enter the atmosphere, did they have all these elaborate heat shields? Alan VE4YZ wrote: >Joe and the group... Here is 25 year old data of STS5 > >http://www.habitablezone.com/columbia/Archive/Dryden/Documents/H-1254_Therma >lResponseShuttleWingReentryHeading.pdf > >Go to page 7 of the PDF and see graph and you can take off altitude, >velocity over time. > >Google is a wonderful thing. Google "reentry velocity altitude shuttle" > > > > > > > >But see where are the numbers to verify this? People make this statement all >the time. but have yet to show any data that verifies this. Why is this >soo hard to verify? > >...Stuff deleted... > > >I'd like to see any data of speed vs altitude.. > >Joe > > > > > > >No virus found in this incoming message. >Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >Version: 8.5.406 / Virus Database: 270.13.49/2293 - Release Date: 08/09/09 >18:10:00 > > > ___ Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
[amsat-bb] Re: New Cubesat - the Ultimate Fox Hunt
At 01:41 PM 8/10/2009, you wrote: >I'm crunching numbers right now, but just thought of something > >ICBM's If we were to nuke RUSSIA or visa versa, while these yes do not >get to orbit, they do get to just shy of orbital velocity, and re enter >the atmosphere, did they have all these elaborate heat shields? I believe a lot of work on atmospheric entry (i.e. heat shielding) systems did actually start from the early days of ICBMs for this very reason. I don't think the speeds are that close to orbital speeds (one only needs to fall 3000 miles away, not 8000+), though they are high enough that the warheads must be designed to survive re-entry. There's a bit about ICBM re-entry systems on Wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atmospheric_reentry 73 de VK3JED / VK3IRL http://vkradio.com ___ Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
[amsat-bb] US ANTENNA
Hi there, Has anyone of you tried the us quadrifilar antenna to receive? Its offered in this page: http://www.antennas.us/Store/ProductDetails.aspx?itemID=229# and it seems its a solution for me. Any report or comment is welcome. Thanks and regards from Spain, Fran. ___ Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
[amsat-bb] Re: US ANTENNA
Steve Ford did a review on these a while back in QST. He said they work "As Advertised". Jim KQ6EA --- On Sun, 8/9/09, Fco. Jiménez-Martín Sánchez wrote: From: Fco. Jiménez-Martín Sánchez Subject: [amsat-bb] US ANTENNA To: amsat-bb@amsat.org Date: Sunday, August 9, 2009, 11:04 AM Hi there, Has anyone of you tried the us quadrifilar antenna to receive? It’s offered in this page: http://www.antennas.us/Store/ProductDetails.aspx?itemID=229# and it seems it’s a solution for me. Any report or comment is welcome. Thanks and regards from Spain, Fran. ___ Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb ___ Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
