Re: [amsat-bb] NO EJECTION MASS Propulsion

[Robert McGwier]

Bwahahaha


On Wed, Aug 6, 2014 at 5:52 PM, JoAnne Maenpaa  wrote:

> > ... puppeteer drive in my star ship in a few years
>
> Unfortunately, the Inter-Galactic Traffic in Arms Regulations will
> prevent us from talking about this!  ;-)
>
> --
> 73 de JoAnne K9JKM
> k9...@amsat.org
>
>
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-- 
Bob McGwier
Co-Owner and Technical Director, Federated Wireless, LLC
Professor Virginia Tech
Senior Member IEEE, Facebook: N4HYBob, ARS: N4HY
Faculty Advisor Virginia Tech Amateur Radio Assn. (K4KDJ)
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Re: [amsat-bb] NO EJECTION MASS Propulsion

[JoAnne Maenpaa]

> ... puppeteer drive in my star ship in a few years

Unfortunately, the Inter-Galactic Traffic in Arms Regulations will
prevent us from talking about this!  ;-)

--
73 de JoAnne K9JKM
k9...@amsat.org 


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Re: [amsat-bb] NO EJECTION MASS Propulsion

[Robert McGwier]

Haha! I am sure you and everyone else is right but I really want the
puppeteer drive in my star ship in a few years!

Bob
 On Aug 5, 2014 1:09 PM, "Martin Davidoff"  wrote:

> Our friends in DL have the perfect word for this: Wunschdenken (wishful
> thinking about an impossibility).
>
> It may be time to start some new scientific/engineering publications --
> The Journal of Premature Publication;
> The Journal of Retractions and Corrections.
>
> k2ubc
>
>
>
>
> On Tue, Aug 5, 2014 at 9:56 AM, Alan  wrote:
>
> > Non-Newtonian reactionless drives have been a staple in science fiction,
> > and the goal to make space
> > travel truly practical.  Probably the most famous was the "Dean Drive"
> > which was a purely mechanical
> > attempt.  The thrust claimed has always turned out to be some quirk,
> > usually obvious after the fact,
> > in the measurement process. (Recall that the data showing faster than
> > light particles at CERN was
> > traced to a faulty cable connection.)  I have no doubt that will turn out
> > to be the case here as well.
> > Some of the science blogs are already working through some of the
> > possibilities.
> >
> > Of course, I would like nothing better than to be proved wrong.  A
> > constant .05 g acceleration makes
> > the solar system, in point of time, the size the earth was in the 16th
> > century.  (If I remember a late
> > night bull session in graduate school correctly.)
> >
> > 73s,
> >
> > Alan
> > WA4SCA
> >
> >
> > <-Original Message-
> > mailto:amsat-bb-boun...@amsat.org] On
> > Behalf Of Robert McGwier
> >  >  >  > <
> >  >  > <
> >  > <
> >  >  > <
> > <
> > <
> > <--
> >  >  >  >  >  > <___
> >  author.
> >  program!
> > http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> >
> > ___
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Re: [amsat-bb] NO EJECTION MASS Propulsion

[Lizeth Norman]

It's either fodder for the conspiracy theorists or it'll win a Noble prize.



On Wed, Aug 6, 2014 at 6:53 AM, Mike Lemons  wrote:

> It doesn't violate any laws of physics if you are expending power from
> photovoltaics to propel your spacecraft.
>
> For example, you could push against the Earth's magnetic field to get a
> satellite into a higher orbit.
>
> This article seems to confirm this model, although they don't know what
> they are pushing against:
> http://www.wired.co.uk/news/archive/2014-07/31/nasa-
> validates-impossible-space-drive
>
> I agree that this is probably nonsense, but maybe it isn't.
>
>
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[amsat-bb] NO EJECTION MASS Propulsion

[Mike Lemons]

It doesn't violate any laws of physics if you are expending power from 
photovoltaics to propel your spacecraft.


For example, you could push against the Earth's magnetic field to get a 
satellite into a higher orbit.


This article seems to confirm this model, although they don't know what 
they are pushing against:

http://www.wired.co.uk/news/archive/2014-07/31/nasa-validates-impossible-space-drive

I agree that this is probably nonsense, but maybe it isn't.


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Re: [amsat-bb] NO EJECTION MASS Propulsion

[Arthur Feller]

Hi, Marty!!

Suggest sticking to the Annals of Improbable Research (AIR).  See: 
http://www.improbable.com.  It’s all real, vetted, and celebrated by awarding 
of the IgNobel prizes every year.  This year will be the 24th First Annual 
IgNobel Prize Ceremony and Lectures,  See your AIRheads in action!!  ;-)

73, art…..
W4ART  Arlington VA





On 5-Aug-2014, at 11:19 AM, Martin Davidoff  wrote:

> Our friends in DL have the perfect word for this: Wunschdenken (wishful
> thinking about an impossibility).
> 
> It may be time to start some new scientific/engineering publications --
> The Journal of Premature Publication;
> The Journal of Retractions and Corrections.
> 
> k2ubc
> 


   http://afeller.us 

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Re: [amsat-bb] NO EJECTION MASS Propulsion

[Martin Davidoff]

Our friends in DL have the perfect word for this: Wunschdenken (wishful
thinking about an impossibility).

It may be time to start some new scientific/engineering publications --
The Journal of Premature Publication;
The Journal of Retractions and Corrections.

k2ubc




On Tue, Aug 5, 2014 at 9:56 AM, Alan  wrote:

> Non-Newtonian reactionless drives have been a staple in science fiction,
> and the goal to make space
> travel truly practical.  Probably the most famous was the "Dean Drive"
> which was a purely mechanical
> attempt.  The thrust claimed has always turned out to be some quirk,
> usually obvious after the fact,
> in the measurement process. (Recall that the data showing faster than
> light particles at CERN was
> traced to a faulty cable connection.)  I have no doubt that will turn out
> to be the case here as well.
> Some of the science blogs are already working through some of the
> possibilities.
>
> Of course, I would like nothing better than to be proved wrong.  A
> constant .05 g acceleration makes
> the solar system, in point of time, the size the earth was in the 16th
> century.  (If I remember a late
> night bull session in graduate school correctly.)
>
> 73s,
>
> Alan
> WA4SCA
>
>
> <-Original Message-
> mailto:amsat-bb-boun...@amsat.org] On
> Behalf Of Robert McGwier
><
>   <
>  <
>   <
> <
> <
> <--
>  <___
>   http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>
> ___
> Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
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Re: [amsat-bb] NO EJECTION MASS Propulsion

[Alan]

Non-Newtonian reactionless drives have been a staple in science fiction, and 
the goal to make space
travel truly practical.  Probably the most famous was the "Dean Drive" which 
was a purely mechanical
attempt.  The thrust claimed has always turned out to be some quirk, usually 
obvious after the fact,
in the measurement process. (Recall that the data showing faster than light 
particles at CERN was
traced to a faulty cable connection.)  I have no doubt that will turn out to be 
the case here as well.
Some of the science blogs are already working through some of the possibilities.

Of course, I would like nothing better than to be proved wrong.  A constant .05 
g acceleration makes
the solar system, in point of time, the size the earth was in the 16th century. 
 (If I remember a late
night bull session in graduate school correctly.)

73s,

Alan
WA4SCA


<-Original Message-
mailto:amsat-bb-boun...@amsat.org] On Behalf 
Of Robert McGwier
http://ntrs.nasa.gov/search.jsp?R=20140006052
<
http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb

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Re: [amsat-bb] NO EJECTION MASS Propulsion

[M5AKA]

Snake oil in space



On Tuesday, 5 August 2014, 0:43, Franklin Antonio  
wrote:
 


At 03:54 PM 8/4/2014, Robert McGwier wrote:
>I hope they aren't wrong because they clearly don't understand how it
>works!!!  http://ntrs.nasa.gov/search.jsp?R=20140006052

The result is surely wrong.

When measuring MICROnewtons, from a device that's going to be getting 
very hot (because the microwave energy is dissipated in the walls of 
the cavity) you may need to do the experiment in a vacuum, to avoid 
air convection confusing the experiment.  In any case, they say they 
worked on the experiment for 8 days, which is not enough time to 
figure out all the engineering aspects of the experiment.

They did the test in a vacuum chamber (which means they must have 
been thinking along the lines of my statement above about convection, 
but they did the test with "the door closed but at ambient 
atmospheric pressure".  Maybe they didn't have enough time to do the 
tests at vacuum.

If they have resources to do more work, clearly pulling a vacuum on 
that chamber is the next thing to do.  I predict that the thrust will 
disappear as the air is pumped out of the chamber.

However, of course I'm not absolutely sure its wrong.  I'll be very 
happy if it turns out to be correct.

My bet, however, is firmly on the no side.

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Re: [amsat-bb] NO EJECTION MASS Propulsion

[Franklin Antonio]

At 03:54 PM 8/4/2014, Robert McGwier wrote:

I hope they aren't wrong because they clearly don't understand how it
works!!!  http://ntrs.nasa.gov/search.jsp?R=20140006052


The result is surely wrong.

When measuring MICROnewtons, from a device that's going to be getting 
very hot (because the microwave energy is dissipated in the walls of 
the cavity) you may need to do the experiment in a vacuum, to avoid 
air convection confusing the experiment.  In any case, they say they 
worked on the experiment for 8 days, which is not enough time to 
figure out all the engineering aspects of the experiment.


They did the test in a vacuum chamber (which means they must have 
been thinking along the lines of my statement above about convection, 
but they did the test with "the door closed but at ambient 
atmospheric pressure".  Maybe they didn't have enough time to do the 
tests at vacuum.


If they have resources to do more work, clearly pulling a vacuum on 
that chamber is the next thing to do.  I predict that the thrust will 
disappear as the air is pumped out of the chamber.


However, of course I'm not absolutely sure its wrong.  I'll be very 
happy if it turns out to be correct.


My bet, however, is firmly on the no side.

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Re: [amsat-bb] NO EJECTION MASS Propulsion

[Greg D]

How can you tell?  They've got enough 10-gallon words in the Abstract to 
propel mountains...


Still, I've been wondering if we'll ever find a space propulsion 
mechanism that doesn't involve throwing parts of the spacecraft overboard.


Greg  KO6TH


Robert McGwier wrote:

I hope they aren't wrong because they clearly don't understand how it
works!!!

http://ntrs.nasa.gov/search.jsp?R=20140006052

Bob
N4HY





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Re: [amsat-bb] NO EJECTION MASS Propulsion

[Andrew Glasbrenner]

This part made me perk up:

"therefore is potentially demonstrating an interaction with the quantum vacuum 
virtual plasma"

I clearly have some reading to do.

73, Drew KO4MA



-Original Message-
>From: Robert McGwier 
>Sent: Aug 4, 2014 6:54 PM
>To: amsat bb 
>Subject: [amsat-bb] NO EJECTION MASS Propulsion
>
>I hope they aren't wrong because they clearly don't understand how it
>works!!!
>
>http://ntrs.nasa.gov/search.jsp?R=20140006052
>
>Bob
>N4HY
>
>
>
>-- 
>Bob McGwier
>Co-Owner and Technical Director, Federated Wireless, LLC
>Professor Virginia Tech
>Senior Member IEEE, Facebook: N4HYBob, ARS: N4HY
>Faculty Advisor Virginia Tech Amateur Radio Assn. (K4KDJ)
>___
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[amsat-bb] NO EJECTION MASS Propulsion

[Robert McGwier]

I hope they aren't wrong because they clearly don't understand how it
works!!!

http://ntrs.nasa.gov/search.jsp?R=20140006052

Bob
N4HY



-- 
Bob McGwier
Co-Owner and Technical Director, Federated Wireless, LLC
Professor Virginia Tech
Senior Member IEEE, Facebook: N4HYBob, ARS: N4HY
Faculty Advisor Virginia Tech Amateur Radio Assn. (K4KDJ)
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