[amsat-bb] Re: AMSAT Symposium News Posted to the Web
Did I ever tell you about the time I cranked 130w on 435 in Providence, R.I. and I received an admonishing phone call from OTIS, AFB asking me if I was on the air, reminding me of the limitations and my obligation to warn them? I hope I was not the cause of a false alarm, but I don't know. I had never spoken to them and didn't even know about the exclusion zones. This was ancient days, right after AO-10 was launched. I don't know the state of the rules or enforcement today but that caused some consternation let me tell you. Fred at least has the obligation to ask what the rules are currently. Bob N4HY Ben Jackson wrote: Sanford, Fred wrote: I hope that AMSAT NA does not use an 70cm uplink, because that band is not available for transmitting in all areas of the US. I live near Cape Cod, MA and 70cm is not available for transmitting because of PAVE PAWS. Hi Fred: I don't think PAVE PAWS prohibits transmission, it only affected repeater operation. At least I haven't heard anything regarding that, and I was fairly active on 70cm until last Monday when W1WNS/R was PAVE PAWSed. ~Ben -- (Co)Author: DttSP, Quiktrak, PowerSDR, GnuRadio Member: ARRL, AMSAT, AMSAT-DL, TAPR, Packrats, NJQRP, QRP ARCI, QCWA, FRC. You don't need to see the whole staircase, just take the first step., MLK. Twitter:rwmcgwier Active: Facebook,Myspace,LinkedIn ___ Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
[amsat-bb] Re: AMSAT Symposium News Posted to the Web
Specific information is available on line. Here's the text. US7 In the band 420–450 MHz and within the following areas, the peak envelope power output of a transmitter employed in the amateur service shall not exceed 50 watts, unless expressly authorized by the FCC after mutual agreement, on a case-by-case basis, between the District Director of the applicable field office and the military area frequency coordinator at the applicable military base. For areas (e) through (g), the appropriate military coordinator is located at Peterson AFB, CO. (a) Arizona, Florida, and New Mexico. (b) Those portions of California and Nevada that are south of latitude 37°10′ N. (c) That portion of Texas that is west of longitude 104° W. (d) Within 322 km (200 miles) of Eglin AFB, FL (30°30′ N, 86°30′ W); Patrick AFB, FL (28°21′ N, 80°43′ W); and the Pacific Missile Test Center, Point Mugu, CA (34°09′ N, 119°11′ W). (e) Within 240 km (150 miles) of Beale AFB, CA (39°08′ N, 121°26′ W). (f) Within 200 km (124 miles) of Goodfellow AFB, TX (31°25′ N, 100°24′ W) and Robins AFB, GA (32°38′ N, 83°35′ W). (g) Within 160 km (100 miles) of Clear, AK (64°17′ N, 149°10′ W); Concrete, ND (48°43′ N, 97°54′ W); and Otis AFB, MA (41°45′ N, 70°32′ W). So, 435-438 MHz is available with limited output power. No limit on antenna again, that I see. I hope this helps. 73, art. W4ART Arlington VA On 15-Oct-2009, at 9:56 AM, Bob McGwier wrote: Did I ever tell you about the time I cranked 130w on 435 in Providence, R.I. and I received an admonishing phone call from OTIS, AFB asking me if I was on the air, reminding me of the limitations and my obligation to warn them? I hope I was not the cause of a false alarm, but I don't know. I had never spoken to them and didn't even know about the exclusion zones. This was ancient days, right after AO-10 was launched. I don't know the state of the rules or enforcement today but that caused some consternation let me tell you. Fred at least has the obligation to ask what the rules are currently. Bob N4HY Ben Jackson wrote: Sanford, Fred wrote: I hope that AMSAT NA does not use an 70cm uplink, because that band is not available for transmitting in all areas of the US. I live near Cape Cod, MA and 70cm is not available for transmitting because of PAVE PAWS. Hi Fred: I don't think PAVE PAWS prohibits transmission, it only affected repeater operation. At least I haven't heard anything regarding that, and I was fairly active on 70cm until last Monday when W1WNS/R was PAVE PAWSed. ~Ben -- (Co)Author: DttSP, Quiktrak, PowerSDR, GnuRadio Member: ARRL, AMSAT, AMSAT-DL, TAPR, Packrats, NJQRP, QRP ARCI, QCWA, FRC. You don't need to see the whole staircase, just take the first step., MLK. Twitter:rwmcgwier Active: Facebook,Myspace,LinkedIn ___ Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb What we can do is to live out our lives as best we can with purpose, and with love, and with joy. We can use each day to show those who are closest to us how much we care about them, and treat others with the kindness and respect that we wish for ourselves. We can learn from our mistakes and grow from our failures. And we can strive at all costs to make a better world, so that someday, if we are blessed with the chance to look back on our time here, we know that we spent it well; that we made a difference; that our fleeting presence had a lasting impact on the lives of others. - Barak Obama, 29 Aug 2009 ___ Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
[amsat-bb] Re: AMSAT Symposium News Posted to the Web
Bob McGwier expunged (rwmcgw...@gmail.com): Did I ever tell you about the time I cranked 130w on 435 in Providence, R.I. and I received an admonishing phone call from OTIS, AFB asking me if I was on the air, reminding me of the limitations and my obligation to warn them? I hope I was not the cause of a false alarm, but I don't know. I had never spoken to them and didn't even know about the exclusion zones. This was ancient days, right after AO-10 was launched. I don't know the state of the rules or enforcement today but that caused some consternation let me tell you. Fred at least has the obligation to ask what the rules are currently. From Part 97: (http://www.arrl.org/FandES/field/regulations/news/part97/d-305.html#313) (f) No station may transmit with a transmitter power exceeding 50 W PEP on the UHF 70 cm band from an area specified in footnote US7 to §2.106 of the FCC Rules, unless expressly authorized by the FCC after mutual agreement, on a case-by-case basis, between the District Director of the applicable field facility and the military area frequency coordinator at the applicable military base. An Earth station or telecommand station, however, may transmit on the 435-438 MHz segment with a maximum of 611 W effective radiated power (1 kW equivalent isotropically radiated power) without the authorization otherwise required. The transmitting antenna elevation angle between the lower half-power (-3 dB relative to the peak or antenna bore sight) point and the horizon must always be greater than 10°. US7 §2.106 (http://www.fcc.gov/oet/info/maps/us7/) (e) In the State of Massachusetts within a 160-kilometer (100 mile) radius around locations at Otis Air Force Base, Massachusetts (latitude 41°45' North, longitude 70°32' West); Technically, if you were in R.I. you were not restricted because the regs specifically state In the State of Massachusetts. Also, you were exepemt most likely from the earth station exemption, depending on your ERP and if you are pointed up :) -Steve N1JFU - http://n1jfu.blogspot.com - sme...@twitter ___ Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
[amsat-bb] Re: AMSAT Symposium News Posted to the Web
That was the source of my confusion as well. My interpretation would be the rule applies only to OTIS AFB (in this case) and it doesn' exist so it cannot apply to a nonexistent entity. Bob Steve Meuse wrote: Steve Meuse expunged (sme...@mara.org): (e) In the State of Massachusetts within a 160-kilometer (100 mile) radius around locations at Otis Air Force Base, Massachusetts (latitude 41°45' North, longitude 70°32' West); Also, I don't know if this has any legal basis, but technically there is no such thing as Otis Air Force Base. Pave Paws is location on Cape Cod Air Force Station, which is on the Massachusetts Military Reservation. There is (recently closed) an Otis Massachusetts Air National Guard Base, but OTIS AFB ceased to exist back in the 60's. -Steve N1JFU - http://n1jfu.blogspot.com - sme...@twitter -- (Co)Author: DttSP, Quiktrak, PowerSDR, GnuRadio Member: ARRL, AMSAT, AMSAT-DL, TAPR, Packrats, NJQRP, QRP ARCI, QCWA, FRC. You don't need to see the whole staircase, just take the first step., MLK. Twitter:rwmcgwier Active: Facebook,Myspace,LinkedIn ___ Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
[amsat-bb] Re: AMSAT Symposium News Posted to the Web
Steve Meuse expunged (sme...@mara.org): (e) In the State of Massachusetts within a 160-kilometer (100 mile) radius around locations at Otis Air Force Base, Massachusetts (latitude 41°45' North, longitude 70°32' West); Also, I don't know if this has any legal basis, but technically there is no such thing as Otis Air Force Base. Pave Paws is location on Cape Cod Air Force Station, which is on the Massachusetts Military Reservation. There is (recently closed) an Otis Massachusetts Air National Guard Base, but OTIS AFB ceased to exist back in the 60's. -Steve N1JFU - http://n1jfu.blogspot.com - sme...@twitter ___ Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
[amsat-bb] Re: AMSAT Symposium News Posted to the Web
On 10/15/2009, Bob McGwier rwmcgw...@gmail.com wrote: Steve Meuse expunged (sme...@mara.org): (e) In the State of Massachusetts within a 160-kilometer (100 mile) radius around locations at Otis Air Force Base, Massachusetts (latitude 41°45' North, longitude 70°32' West); That was the source of my confusion as well. My interpretation would be the rule applies only to OTIS AFB (in this case) and it doesn' exist so it cannot apply to a nonexistent entity. Technically the State of Massachusetts doesn't exist either. We're a Commonwealth. ;) ___ Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
[amsat-bb] Re: AMSAT Symposium News Posted to the Web
The Air Guard has a B1B and advanced fighter jets deployed there.Otis had numerous strategic bombers deployed at Otis AFB in the 50's during the Cold War. - Original Message - From: Bob McGwier rwmcgw...@gmail.com To: Steve Meuse sme...@mara.org Cc: 'Amsat BB' amsat-bb@amsat.org Sent: Thursday, October 15, 2009 2:15 PM Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: AMSAT Symposium News Posted to the Web That was the source of my confusion as well. My interpretation would be the rule applies only to OTIS AFB (in this case) and it doesn' exist so it cannot apply to a nonexistent entity. Bob Steve Meuse wrote: Steve Meuse expunged (sme...@mara.org): (e) In the State of Massachusetts within a 160-kilometer (100 mile) radius around locations at Otis Air Force Base, Massachusetts (latitude 41°45' North, longitude 70°32' West); Also, I don't know if this has any legal basis, but technically there is no such thing as Otis Air Force Base. Pave Paws is location on Cape Cod Air Force Station, which is on the Massachusetts Military Reservation. There is (recently closed) an Otis Massachusetts Air National Guard Base, but OTIS AFB ceased to exist back in the 60's. -Steve N1JFU - http://n1jfu.blogspot.com - sme...@twitter -- (Co)Author: DttSP, Quiktrak, PowerSDR, GnuRadio Member: ARRL, AMSAT, AMSAT-DL, TAPR, Packrats, NJQRP, QRP ARCI, QCWA, FRC. You don't need to see the whole staircase, just take the first step., MLK. Twitter:rwmcgwier Active: Facebook,Myspace,LinkedIn ___ Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb ___ Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
[amsat-bb] Re: AMSAT Symposium News Posted to the Web
it will be entertaining to see how this progresses...most of the bleep sats die quickly...to much satellite for to little space...but lets see how suitsat 2 turns out I agree we need more Oscar 7's... Robert WB5MZO _ Your E-mail and More On-the-Go. Get Windows Live Hotmail Free. http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/171222985/direct/01/ ___ Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
[amsat-bb] Re: AMSAT Symposium News Posted to the Web
I hope that AMSAT NA does not use an 70cm uplink, because that band is not available for transmitting in all areas of the US. I live near Cape Cod, MA and 70cm is not available for transmitting because of PAVE PAWS. Fred - KA1CQD -Original Message- From: amsat-bb-boun...@amsat.org [mailto:amsat-bb-boun...@amsat.org] On Behalf Of Rocky Jones Sent: Wednesday, October 14, 2009 11:58 AM To: n...@bellsouth.net; luclebla...@videotron.ca; Amsat BB Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: AMSAT Symposium News Posted to the Web http://www.qsl.net/pe1rah/HAMSAT.htm I am just trying to figure out why AMSAT NA is not taking advantage of work already done. Robert WB5MZO _ Hotmail: Trusted email with Microsoft's powerful SPAM protection. http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/177141664/direct/01/ ___ Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb *** Confidentiality Notice: This e-mail, including any associated or attached files, is intended solely for the individual or entity to which it is addressed. This e-mail is confidential and may well also be legally privileged. If you have received it in error, you are on notice of its status. Please notify the sender immediately by reply e-mail and then delete this message from your system. Please do not copy it or use it for any purposes, or disclose its contents to any other person. This email comes from a division of the Invensys Group, owned by Invensys plc, which is a company registered in England and Wales with its registered office at Portland House, Bressenden Place, London, SW1E 5BF (Registered number 166023). For a list of European legal entities within the Invensys Group, please go to http://www.invensys.com/legal/default.asp?top_nav_id=77nav_id=80prev_id=77. You may contact Invensys plc on +44 (0)20 7821 3848 or e-mail inet.hqhelpd...@invensys.com. This e-mail! and any attachments thereto may be subject to the terms of any agreements between Invensys (and/or its subsidiaries and affiliates) and the recipient (and/or its subsidiaries and affiliates). ___ Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
[amsat-bb] Re: AMSAT Symposium News Posted to the Web
Fred. lovely radar but it hoses some people! Robert WB5MZO From: fred.sanf...@ips.invensys.com To: orbit...@hotmail.com; n...@bellsouth.net; luclebla...@videotron.ca; amsat-bb@amsat.org Date: Wed, 14 Oct 2009 12:17:47 -0400 Subject: RE: [amsat-bb] Re: AMSAT Symposium News Posted to the Web I hope that AMSAT NA does not use an 70cm uplink, because that band is not available for transmitting in all areas of the US. I live near Cape Cod, MA and 70cm is not available for transmitting because of PAVE PAWS. Fred - KA1CQD -Original Message- From: amsat-bb-boun...@amsat.org [mailto:amsat-bb-boun...@amsat.org] On Behalf Of Rocky Jones Sent: Wednesday, October 14, 2009 11:58 AM To: n...@bellsouth.net; luclebla...@videotron.ca; Amsat BB Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: AMSAT Symposium News Posted to the Web http://www.qsl.net/pe1rah/HAMSAT.htm I am just trying to figure out why AMSAT NA is not taking advantage of work already done. Robert WB5MZO _ Hotmail: Trusted email with Microsoft's powerful SPAM protection. http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/177141664/direct/01/ ___ Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb *** Confidentiality Notice: This e-mail, including any associated or attached files, is intended solely for the individual or entity to which it is addressed. This e-mail is confidential and may well also be legally privileged. If you have received it in error, you are on notice of its status. Please notify the sender immediately by reply e-mail and then delete this message from your system. Please do not copy it or use it for any purposes, or disclose its contents to any other person. This email comes from a division of the Invensys Group, owned by Invensys plc, which is a company registered in England and Wales with its registered office at Portland House, Bressenden Place, London, SW1E 5BF (Registered number 166023). For a list of European legal entities within the Invensys Group, please go to http://www.invensys.com/legal/default.asp?top_nav_id=77nav_id=80prev_id=77. You may contact Invensys plc on +44 (0)20 7821 3848 or e-mail inet.hqhelpd...@invensys.com. This e-mail and any attachments thereto may be subject to the terms of any agreements between Invensys (and/or its subsidiaries and affiliates) and the recipient (and/or its subsidiaries and affiliates). _ Hotmail: Trusted email with Microsoft’s powerful SPAM protection. http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/177141664/direct/01/ ___ Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
[amsat-bb] Re: AMSAT Symposium News Posted to the Web
The funding solution will go by an international funding campaign and by a fixed minimal contribution per amateur who want's to have an HEO. I am member of a local marina and each new member should pay a one time Dredging Fee of 250$. The marina is open here from May 15 to October 4 about 5 months. I can used a satellite 12 months am i willing to pay 250$ a year YES and could be more if a sound international structure with well defined planning and objectives can demonstrate a serious will towards the next HEO. Well, it's nice that you have an amount in mind for how much you would pay. Frankly, I'd probably be willing to spend 4x as that much. It probably would take that level of funding to get purchase a launch. As far as I know, the terms of the bid that Arianspace quoted AMSAT-DL were never released, but we get hints of the it in presentations like: http://mstl.atl.calpoly.edu/~bklofas/Presentations/AMSATUK2009/3b_Gulzow-P3E.pdf which suggests that 20,000 euros per kilogram isn't absurd, and they'd be lucky to get a launch for half that price. This would yield a price for P3E of only (!) 1.7 million euros, or 2.5 million dollars U.S. AMSAT-DL didn't think such a launch was feasible, and claims that the costs were (in ttheir words) one order of magnitude too expensive.As they say, bitter reality of their funding efforts is that the attractiveness of amateur radio has dropped significantly, and that funding a P3 satellite from amateur resources alone seems not to work now and probably never again?. In light of this, AMSAT-DL has pursued tax money from their covernment to pursue a 20M euro effort to fund launches for P5A and P3E. I wish them luck, but in the current economic environment, as well as past experience, I think there is some reason for skepticism, or at least, no expectation for a quick resolution to this issue. There is already a lot of dedicated peoples around the amateurs radio satellite business who are only making their own small things in their small backyard. Why not regrouping their energies and money towards ONLY ONE SINGLE big project? In the amateur satellite world we called that a HEO satellite as AO-40 and as AO-07 AO-10 AO-13 generation who where the first steps towards AO-40. I think the reason against such a strategy is quite simple, and it is absolutely personified in AO-40. Yes, AO-40 was a remarkable, amazing, revolutionary amateur satellite. But radio amateurs put all their eggs in one basket, and that basket had a hole in it, and all the eggs tumbled out, and now we are left not only with no eggs, but with an environment where people might (reasonably in fact) ask why they should put all their eggs in one basket again, particularly because these baskets have rocket motors filled with hydrazine and nitrogen tetroxide inside. Even if we could fund an HEO launch, I still think it is a matter of debate as to whether launching these kinds of expensive, heavy satellites is a project which provides the greatest utility toward the amateur service. Just to be clear my opinion is not against the collective effort and people works but against some of the objectives they carry. Volunteers motivation should be the best interest of all not the few. I find this statement a bit disingenous. The simple truth is that satellites in HEO are usable by fewer, not more hams. If we really were trying to provide a satellite which benefitted most hams, it seems pursuing a strategy which minimizes their personal investment in ground stations is entirely reasonable. Despite your assertion that AO-51 is a mistake, I would counter that it's been enormously successful: a long-lived versatile satellite that provides interesting opportunities for people not just on VU but on L and S band. Bruce (I think it was Bruce) suggested that the cost ratio between a cubesat launch and an heo launch was around 125/1. To compare apples to apples, we'd have to compare the benefits of having 125 cubesats (perhaps carrying full V/U transponders like the ones designed by PE1RAH) versus one satellite in HEO. AMSAT's strategy is I think an entirely reasonable strategy. Cubesats are a reality: they will continue to be launched. As yet, they have not been of enormous utility to radio amateurs because they carry only the kind of radio payloads that they need to support their scientific objectives. But miniaturization has resulted in the possibility for a solar cell carrying cubesat to carry a full V/U transponder. The trick is getting these university and scientific projects to carry them for us into space, so we can make use of them when their scientific missions are over. We can do that by providing them with a tested radio module that integrates the functions they use as a standardized item. This allows them to concentrate on their mission and not have to design custom radio modules for their cubesat. This allows them to get to orbit cheaper and quicker.
[amsat-bb] Re: AMSAT Symposium News Posted to the Web
AMSAT has a U/V linear transponder design in ARISSsat and according to the last newsletter no foreign national has signed the agreement that ITAR requires. 73, John KD6OZH - Original Message - From: Rocky Jones orbit...@hotmail.com To: n...@bellsouth.net; luclebla...@videotron.ca; Amsat BB amsat-bb@amsat.org Sent: Wednesday, October 14, 2009 15:58 UTC Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: AMSAT Symposium News Posted to the Web http://www.qsl.net/pe1rah/HAMSAT.htm I am just trying to figure out why AMSAT NA is not taking advantage of work already done. Robert WB5MZO _ Hotmail: Trusted email with Microsoft’s powerful SPAM protection. http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/177141664/direct/01/ ___ Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb ___ Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
[amsat-bb] Re: AMSAT Symposium News Posted to the Web
Why aren't you? I have not heard your signal on a single linear satellite, including VU. The technology BUILT and currently undergoing testing in ARISSat 1 will provide real tangible benefit for linear transponders (and nonlinear) in the VHF/UHF range for all sorts of missions. But you sling mud at ARISSat without knowing what it actually IS don't you? Bill Ress, N6GHZ, presented his linear transponder work at the forum. It is really nice work. When we get done with high level HELAPS on it, it will be a very very nice linear transponder indeed, built on late model really nice, naturally hard devices. The efficiency and more are better than achieved by RAH or the other transponder builders for VU. But that is to be expected. We have had the advantage of time and the demand for better RF parts for all sorts of markets producing them. Bob N4HY Rocky Jones wrote: http://www.qsl.net/pe1rah/HAMSAT.htm I am just trying to figure out why AMSAT NA is not taking advantage of work already done. Robert WB5MZO -- (Co)Author: DttSP, Quiktrak, PowerSDR, GnuRadio Member: ARRL, AMSAT, AMSAT-DL, TAPR, Packrats, NJQRP, QRP ARCI, QCWA, FRC. You don't need to see the whole staircase, just take the first step., MLK. Twitter:rwmcgwier Active: Facebook,Myspace,LinkedIn ___ Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
[amsat-bb] Re: AMSAT Symposium News Posted to the Web
Tim N3TL said: I also don't share your view of?satellite operation using a handheld or otherwise portable station, which is less than positive. Again, I mean no disrespect - but I find very little challenge and even less satisfaction in making a satellite contact running 50-100 watts into?a pair of long, multi-element yagis being controlled for az/el by computers - and using a radio being computer controlled for Doppler.? Of course, many more satellite operators share views closer to yours than mine - or, at least, it seems that way. Point taken, but there are two ways to enter the satellite section of this hobby. 1. The linear satellite way (FO-29, AO7 and VO-52). This was the way I selected. My early goal was to operate AO-40, and the station was constructed for this AMSAT project. 2. The second way is via the FM satellites. Both ways are valid. It all depends which way a person came to make that first satellite contact. It's still a thrill either way. Respectively Mike (K9QHO) AMSAT 33589 ___ Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
[amsat-bb] Re: AMSAT Symposium News Posted to the Web
Mark, Thank you for this thoughtful post. Like many others using today's current roster of available satellites, I wasn't around for AO-40 or many other satellites that are recalled her so fondly by those who were. If I could build, launch and select the orbit for an amateur satellite, I believe it would be something along the lines of what we've been told about the Chinese satellite known as XW-1. As I recall, it has an FM repeater, a linear transponder and a flying mailbox. A satellite with those capabilities in an AO-7-ish (or, actually, slightly higher) orbit would be one I would really enjoy. Even that, however, will take significantly more fundraising than what we have before us now. I applaud the Board of Directors and AMSAT's officers for accepting the Engineering Task Force recommendations and moving forward. My interests - and the challenges and satisfaction I find - in the amateur satellites are different from many others'. I recognize that the Board and AMSAT-NA officers inevitably walk a tightrope when faced with decisions because they won't ever make everyone happy. Consider just what the AO-51 operations team faces regularly when scheduling various modes on her - that's a very small taste of the dynamic interests that AMSAT worldwide faces in considering - then acting - on how best to move forward for the future. Sumbandilla Sat operation is on the horizon. I presume plans continue to move forward to XW-1 to be in orbit and available in the not-too-distant future. We all hope FO-29 will be back to her old self in no more than a few months. We now have ARISSat-1, the 1U cube sat and the amateur communications package in the rideshare opportunity. Even excluding FO-29, that is a significant increase in operating opportunities on the way fairly soon. I find that very exciting. 73 to all, Tim - N3TL From: Mark VandeWettering kf6...@gmail.com To: amsat-bb@amsat.org Sent: Wednesday, October 14, 2009 3:54:31 PM Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: AMSAT Symposium News Posted to the Web The funding solution will go by an international funding campaign and by a fixed minimal contribution per amateur who want's to have an HEO. I am member of a local marina and each new member should pay a one time Dredging Fee of 250$. The marina is open here from May 15 to October 4 about 5 months. I can used a satellite 12 months am i willing to pay 250$ a year YES and could be more if a sound international structure with well defined planning and objectives can demonstrate a serious will towards the next HEO. Well, it's nice that you have an amount in mind for how much you would pay. Frankly, I'd probably be willing to spend 4x as that much. It probably would take that level of funding to get purchase a launch. As far as I know, the terms of the bid that Arianspace quoted AMSAT-DL were never released, but we get hints of the it in presentations like: http://mstl.atl.calpoly.edu/~bklofas/Presentations/AMSATUK2009/3b_Gulzow-P3E.pdf which suggests that 20,000 euros per kilogram isn't absurd, and they'd be lucky to get a launch for half that price. This would yield a price for P3E of only (!) 1.7 million euros, or 2.5 million dollars U.S. AMSAT-DL didn't think such a launch was feasible, and claims that the costs were (in ttheir words) one order of magnitude too expensive. As they say, bitter reality of their funding efforts is that the attractiveness of amateur radio has dropped significantly, and that funding a P3 satellite from amateur resources alone seems not to work now and probably never again?. In light of this, AMSAT-DL has pursued tax money from their covernment to pursue a 20M euro effort to fund launches for P5A and P3E. I wish them luck, but in the current economic environment, as well as past experience, I think there is some reason for skepticism, or at least, no expectation for a quick resolution to this issue. There is already a lot of dedicated peoples around the amateurs radio satellite business who are only making their own small things in their small backyard. Why not regrouping their energies and money towards ONLY ONE SINGLE big project? In the amateur satellite world we called that a HEO satellite as AO-40 and as AO-07 AO-10 AO-13 generation who where the first steps towards AO-40. I think the reason against such a strategy is quite simple, and it is absolutely personified in AO-40. Yes, AO-40 was a remarkable, amazing, revolutionary amateur satellite. But radio amateurs put all their eggs in one basket, and that basket had a hole in it, and all the eggs tumbled out, and now we are left not only with no eggs, but with an environment where people might (reasonably in fact) ask why they should put all their eggs in one basket again, particularly because these baskets have rocket motors filled with hydrazine and nitrogen tetroxide inside. Even if we could fund an HEO launch, I still think it is a matter
[amsat-bb] Re: AMSAT Symposium News Posted to the Web
At 03:53 AM 10/15/2009, Andrew Glasbrenner wrote: Sanford, Fred wrote: I hope that AMSAT NA does not use an 70cm uplink, because that band is not available for transmitting in all areas of the US. I live near Cape Cod, MA and 70cm is not available for transmitting because of PAVE PAWS. Fred - KA1CQD 70 cms is actually the preferred uplink for a number of reasons, including less path loss on the downlink, less ground based QRM, and easier Doppler management. This was part of my lessons learned at LEO paper from the Symposium. 70cm uplinks work better here. We have had issues with newcomers not hearing the downlinks on 70 and then causing QRM, because they're not aware there's anyone there. 2m uplinks in this part of the world suffer from QRM when the birds are over Asia. This affects FM LEOs worst, the linear transponders aren't as badly affected. I've long preferred 70cm uplinks (the big reason SO-35 was such a hit down here). 73 de VK3JED / VK3IRL http://vkradio.com ___ Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
[amsat-bb] Re: AMSAT Symposium News Posted to the Web
Hi Mike, Thanks for your note. And, I suspect, when you entered the hobby back then, radios like the FT-817 weren't available - nor were effective portable antennas like the Elk and Arrow. As you recall, you and I had a contact on VO-52 not long ago that I emailed you about. I was using AFSK on a 1.5-watt Yaesu VX-3R HT, with a straight key connected to the mic jack. I just missed a contact on FO-29 before she went down. I intended to write up something for the Journal about a complete satellite station that would fit in a briefcase - with the ability to work all the FM satellites, all the linear satellites (granted, in CW only) and digipeat packets through the ISS digipeater. I still will write that story when FO-29 comes back and I can get that contact. I surely don't begrudge you or anyone who operates from a high-quality, highly effective ground station. I continue to be disappointed by those who feel the need for the highest power available on the FM satellites because it's totally unnecessary and overkill. They keep others from enjoying the satellites as much as they because the lower powered stations don't have a chance. That's a moot point on the linear satellites, as we both know. I apologize if my statements offended you. That surely wasn't my intent. I hope all is well with you. 73, Tim From: WILLIAMS MICHAEL k9qho6...@sbcglobal.net To: amsat-bb@amsat.org; n...@bellsouth.net Sent: Wednesday, October 14, 2009 4:48:47 PM Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: AMSAT Symposium News Posted to the Web Tim N3TL said: I also don't share your view of?satellite operation using a handheld or otherwise portable station, which is less than positive. Again, I mean no disrespect - but I find very little challenge and even less satisfaction in making a satellite contact running 50-100 watts into?a pair of long, multi-element yagis being controlled for az/el by computers - and using a radio being computer controlled for Doppler.? Of course, many more satellite operators share views closer to yours than mine - or, at least, it seems that way. Point taken, but there are two ways to enter the satellite section of this hobby. 1. The linear satellite way (FO-29, AO7 and VO-52). This was the way I selected. My early goal was to operate AO-40, and the station was constructed for this AMSAT project. 2. The second way is via the FM satellites. Both ways are valid. It all depends which way a person came to make that first satellite contact. It's still a thrill either way. Respectively Mike (K9QHO) AMSAT 33589 ___ Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb ___ Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
[amsat-bb] Re: AMSAT Symposium News Posted to the Web
John. I was told by someone else that the problem was current use...but if ITAR is the problem, then it can be fixed. ITAR is a pain but it can be dealt with particularly in this case...where there is no dual use capability. As for AMSAT's ARISSsat transponder. Well we will see if it works. They are not exactly burning up the track record with success. We have had this argument and I am willing to sit back and see if it goes, but it is far to much project for the program. Most of the folks I know at JSC give it less then 20 percent chance of working...In fact it was a source of mirth at a recent BDAY party. Robert WB5MZO From: kd6...@comcast.net To: orbit...@hotmail.com; n...@bellsouth.net; luclebla...@videotron.ca; amsat-bb@amsat.org Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Re: AMSAT Symposium News Posted to the Web Date: Wed, 14 Oct 2009 20:06:13 + AMSAT has a U/V linear transponder design in ARISSsat and according to the last newsletter no foreign national has signed the agreement that ITAR requires. 73, John KD6OZH - Original Message - From: Rocky Jones orbit...@hotmail.com To: n...@bellsouth.net; luclebla...@videotron.ca; Amsat BB amsat-bb@amsat.org Sent: Wednesday, October 14, 2009 15:58 UTC Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: AMSAT Symposium News Posted to the Web http://www.qsl.net/pe1rah/HAMSAT.htm I am just trying to figure out why AMSAT NA is not taking advantage of work already done. Robert WB5MZO _ Hotmail: Trusted email with Microsoft’s powerful SPAM protection. http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/177141664/direct/01/ ___ Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb _ Hotmail: Powerful Free email with security by Microsoft. http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/171222986/direct/01/ ___ Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
[amsat-bb] Re: AMSAT Symposium News Posted to the Web
Beware the troll. He speaks with zero knowledge but high opinions. contribute or get out the way In a message dated 14/10/2009 21:24:40 GMT Standard Time, orbit...@hotmail.com writes: John. I was told by someone else that the problem was current use...but if ITAR is the problem, then it can be fixed. ITAR is a pain but it can be dealt with particularly in this case...where there is no dual use capability. As for AMSAT's ARISSsat transponder. Well we will see if it works. They are not exactly burning up the track record with success. We have had this argument and I am willing to sit back and see if it goes, but it is far to much project for the program. Most of the folks I know at JSC give it less then 20 percent chance of working...In fact it was a source of mirth at a recent BDAY party. ___ Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
[amsat-bb] Re: AMSAT Symposium News Posted to the Web
The new AMSAT CubeSat's initial capability is planned to add to the popular low-earth orbit FM transponder fleet allowing hams to continue to use their existing handheld and portable antenna systems. This also continues the accessible entry path for new satellite operators to get started. The existing FM satellites are starting to show their age. It was widely admitted that AO-51 was a mistake years ago as a transponder type satellite should have been chosen instead of a single channel satellite. IMHO There ia already enough capabilities with the existing fleet SO-50 AO-51 AO-27 ISS cross band repeater for an entry class satellite plus many cubes in the making as arisat-1. What we lack is a HEO or some AO-07 like satellite with transponder who will make transcontinental QSO'S possible. Theses one channel satellite are a waste of money compare to a transponder type as many simultaneous QSO'S can be achieved at the same time. But theses issues where widely discussed in the past and i'm guessing the AMSAT symposium attendance widely clapped at this announcement!!! What AMSAT-NA will be in the next years HANDHELD CLUB as written to continue to use their existing handheld and portable antenna systems. Wrong direction again 180 degrees of the logical course again! P.S. It is obvious this variation on the same subject proposal will have plenty of time to evolved or to be put in real service only to be replaced by other new proposals. it is the dog running after his tails syndrome who prevail again. Bottom line is another deceptive unrealistic proposal IMHO. Feel free to agree or disagree but the shrinking AMSAT-NA membership is probably what's is triggering theses proposals a king of safety buoy for the BOD to avoid drowning the whole crew and her ship. - Luc Leblanc VE2DWE Skype VE2DWE www.qsl.net/ve2dwe DSTAR urcall VE2DWE WAC BASIC CW PHONE SATELLITE ___ Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
[amsat-bb] Re: AMSAT Symposium News Posted to the Web
On 13 Oct 2009 at 18:42, Tim - N3TL wrote: Date sent: Tue, 13 Oct 2009 18:42:15 -0700 (PDT) From: Tim - N3TL n...@bellsouth.net Subject:Re: [amsat-bb] Re: AMSAT Symposium News Posted to the Web To: Luc Leblanc luclebla...@videotron.ca, amsat-bb@amsat.org Copies to: eu-am...@yahoogroups.com Hello Luc, I have some questions. 1- What is the logical direction, in your opinion? Helping our German's friends launching P3E 2 - How much would that direction cost, in your opinion? A lot of $$$ who should better invest in achieving P3E rather than sending another FM single channel LEO repeater cube 3 - How would you propose paying for that direction? I never see a clear financial and funding projected structure in years since AO-40. On any project when the goals are set and the money target is clearly establish the hard part will be to regroup all the international AMSAT'S and all the potential funding sources: government, spaces agencies, universities, amateur radio association eg: ARRL, RAC, RSGB ect (Some of them already contribute to P3E) The funding solution will go by an international funding campaign and by a fixed minimal contribution per amateur who want's to have an HEO. I am member of a local marina and each new member should pay a one time Dredging Fee of 250$. The marina is open here from May 15 to October 4 about 5 months. I can used a satellite 12 months am i willing to pay 250$ a year YES and could be more if a sound international structure with well defined planning and objectives can demonstrate a serious will towards the next HEO. There is already a lot of dedicated peoples around the amateurs radio satellite business who are only making their own small things in their small backyard. Why not regrouping their energies and money towards ONLY ONE SINGLE big project? In the amateur satellite world we called that a HEO satellite as AO-40 and as AO-07 AO-10 AO-13 generation who where the first steps towards AO-40. Just to be clear my opinion is not against the collective effort and people works but against some of the objectives they carry. Volunteers motivation should be the best interest of all not the few. Feel free to come back this is a very wide subject of discussion with many possible outcome. 73 Tim - Luc Leblanc VE2DWE Skype VE2DWE www.qsl.net/ve2dwe DSTAR urcall VE2DWE WAC BASIC CW PHONE SATELLITE ___ Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
[amsat-bb] Re: AMSAT Symposium News Posted to the Web
Hello Luc, I have some questions. 1- What is the logical direction, in your opinion? 2 - How much would that direction cost, in your opinion? 3 - How would you propose paying for that direction? I look forward to learning more so that I can more fully understand your positioin. 73, Tim - N3TL From: Luc Leblanc luclebla...@videotron.ca To: amsat-bb@amsat.org Cc: eu-am...@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, October 13, 2009 11:05:59 AM Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: AMSAT Symposium News Posted to the Web The new AMSAT CubeSat's initial capability is planned to add to the popular low-earth orbit FM transponder fleet allowing hams to continue to use their existing handheld and portable antenna systems. This also continues the accessible entry path for new satellite operators to get started. The existing FM satellites are starting to show their age. It was widely admitted that AO-51 was a mistake years ago as a transponder type satellite should have been chosen instead of a single channel satellite. IMHO There ia already enough capabilities with the existing fleet SO-50 AO-51 AO-27 ISS cross band repeater for an entry class satellite plus many cubes in the making as arisat-1. What we lack is a HEO or some AO-07 like satellite with transponder who will make transcontinental QSO'S possible. Theses one channel satellite are a waste of money compare to a transponder type as many simultaneous QSO'S can be achieved at the same time. But theses issues where widely discussed in the past and i'm guessing the AMSAT symposium attendance widely clapped at this announcement!!! What AMSAT-NA will be in the next years HANDHELD CLUB as written to continue to use their existing handheld and portable antenna systems. Wrong direction again 180 degrees of the logical course again! P..S. It is obvious this variation on the same subject proposal will have plenty of time to evolved or to be put in real service only to be replaced by other new proposals. it is the dog running after his tails syndrome who prevail again. Bottom line is another deceptive unrealistic proposal IMHO. Feel free to agree or disagree but the shrinking AMSAT-NA membership is probably what's is triggering theses proposals a king of safety buoy for the BOD to avoid drowning the whole crew and her ship. - Luc Leblanc VE2DWE Skype VE2DWE www.qsl.net/ve2dwe DSTAR urcall VE2DWE WAC BASIC CW PHONE SATELLITE ___ Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb ___ Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb