[android-developers] Re: Any proposed changes to the Android Market?
I think squelch button for app / developer in your market client would be sufficient - you just stop seeing it. This data could be collected by market and analyzed. BTW, is there some URL where one can see actual ranking of applications? regards -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Android Developers group. To post to this group, send email to android-developers@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to android-developers+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/android-developers?hl=en
[android-developers] Re: Any proposed changes to the Android Market?
String said: Also, app markets have (unfortunately) become a numbers game in the eyes of the public. It's important for Google to be able to say they have 150,000 (or whatever) apps in the Market; clearing the dregs would drop that number considerably, probably by an order of magnitude. Although this would probably be a better situation, for both devs and users, it's a net loss on the mindshare front. And that's not unimportant to the decision makers. But that kind of marketing is even less sophisticated than quantity over quality - all Google would be selling on is quantity alone, which is non-sense. I give mobile application users and developers more credit than to simply assume that most of them would only care about how many apps exist on a market. Once you've reached any figure over 10,000 - I think you've already established yourself as a dominant market in terms of popularity as a platform for publishing and downloading apps. I agree with William Ferguson that Google should go for a more sophisticated marketing approach for Android, and establish the Android Market as a compelling user experience that delivers professional apps that are not spam. Whether they do this through an approach of moderation or introducing clever algorithms is up to them - as long as it works I think it can only help to boost Android's market share as a whole. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Android Developers group. To post to this group, send email to android-developers@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to android-developers+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/android-developers?hl=en
[android-developers] Re: Any proposed changes to the Android Market?
Also, app markets have (unfortunately) become a numbers game in the eyes of the public. It's important for Google to be able to say they have 150,000 (or whatever) apps in the Market; clearing the dregs would drop that number considerably, probably by an order of magnitude. Although this would probably be a better situation, for both devs and users, it's a net loss on the mindshare front. And that's not unimportant to the decision makers. String On Oct 7, 3:33 am, Brad Gies rbg...@gmail.com wrote: The market does this by default already They only have roughly 22 categories, and there are 70,000 apps... which means roughly 3,000 apps per category, and they only show 800... If your app is in the bottom half of your category... it's effectively not there :). Not to say the Market works well at all but in this case it's filtering out the worst of the worst by default :). But, as long as the Market is the only game in town, it's probably not possible for Google to filter it because they are effectively a monopoly and not allowing any app would be a PR nightmare. Apple doesn't really have the same problem because they are not even trying to claim any kind of openness. Sincerely, Brad Gies --- Bistro Bot - Bistro Blurbhttp://bgies.comhttp://bistroblurb.comhttp://ihottonight.comhttp://forcethetruth.com --- Everything in moderation, including abstinence Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed people can change the world. Indeed. It is the only thing that ever has - Margaret Mead On 06/10/2010 1:08 PM, Kumar Bibek wrote: Agree, but before removing such an app, Google should atleast intimate the dev the reason, else, it won't be fair for the developer. And for this, someone will definitely have to checkout the app in person, before taking it down. Also, if Google wishes to include such a condition in Terms and Conditions, say for example, if you app has 2000 downloads with avg rating of 1.5 stars, your app will be automatically removed, I am not sure, if all the devs would like this. On Thu, Oct 7, 2010 at 1:33 AM, TreKing treking...@gmail.com mailto:treking...@gmail.com wrote: On Wed, Oct 6, 2010 at 2:49 PM, Kumar Bibek coomar@gmail.com mailto:coomar@gmail.com wrote: Yep, but this might not be a fool proof method. Say, a competitor dev can easily go and mark a new entrant as spam, and leave negative comments. 15-20 such comments and spam flags would obviously be a disadvantage for the new app. Of course, but in my mind it would take a considerable amount of votes to get one ejected - certainly more than 15-20, which still would require a dedicated effort by either a lot of individual competitors or a single company instructing their employees to use such tactics, which one would hope is the exception, not the norm. And of course there would be other criteria. For example, if one developer has 200+ apps, with an average rating of 2 stars and each app has been flagged as spam at least 100 unique times over the course of time, it's fair to assume they're worthless spammers. I'm sure some clever Google Engineer could come up with a fairly reliable algorithm for Market spam detection. A 20% time project, perhaps? --- -- TreKing http://sites.google.com/site/rezmobileapps/treking - Chicago transit tracking app for Android-powered devices -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Android Developers group. To post to this group, send email to android-developers@googlegroups.com mailto:android-developers@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to android-developers+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com mailto:android-developers%2bunsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/android-developers?hl=en -- Kumar Bibek http://techdroid.kbeanie.com http://www.kbeanie.com -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Android Developers group. To post to this group, send email to android-developers@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to android-developers+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/android-developers?hl=en -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Android Developers group. To post to this group, send email to android-developers@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
[android-developers] Re: Any proposed changes to the Android Market?
But that's just down to how the Google/Apple marketing departments put the spin on it. If it was 15,000 apps that really deliver vs a horde of apps of dubious quality, then a good marketing department should be able to run hard with that. It could be pitched as an accelerated Darwinian environment. Only the *great* survive here. I can picture the images that would ship with it now. An army of variagated Android Apps on one side surrounded by the dismembered remains of the unfit, and on the other side a horde of insipid apps jammed shoulder to shoulder. Go with the strength. Gee maybe I should have pursued marketting instead of development. Yep - I'm definitely coming down with a fever. On Oct 7, 7:30 pm, String sterling.ud...@googlemail.com wrote: Also, app markets have (unfortunately) become a numbers game in the eyes of the public. It's important for Google to be able to say they have 150,000 (or whatever) apps in the Market; clearing the dregs would drop that number considerably, probably by an order of magnitude. Although this would probably be a better situation, for both devs and users, it's a net loss on the mindshare front. And that's not unimportant to the decision makers. String On Oct 7, 3:33 am, Brad Gies rbg...@gmail.com wrote: The market does this by default already They only have roughly 22 categories, and there are 70,000 apps... which means roughly 3,000 apps per category, and they only show 800... If your app is in the bottom half of your category... it's effectively not there :). Not to say the Market works well at all but in this case it's filtering out the worst of the worst by default :). But, as long as the Market is the only game in town, it's probably not possible for Google to filter it because they are effectively a monopoly and not allowing any app would be a PR nightmare. Apple doesn't really have the same problem because they are not even trying to claim any kind of openness. Sincerely, Brad Gies --- Bistro Bot - Bistro Blurbhttp://bgies.comhttp://bistroblurb.comhttp://ihottonight.comhttp://fo... --- Everything in moderation, including abstinence Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed people can change the world. Indeed. It is the only thing that ever has - Margaret Mead On 06/10/2010 1:08 PM, Kumar Bibek wrote: Agree, but before removing such an app, Google should atleast intimate the dev the reason, else, it won't be fair for the developer. And for this, someone will definitely have to checkout the app in person, before taking it down. Also, if Google wishes to include such a condition in Terms and Conditions, say for example, if you app has 2000 downloads with avg rating of 1.5 stars, your app will be automatically removed, I am not sure, if all the devs would like this. On Thu, Oct 7, 2010 at 1:33 AM, TreKing treking...@gmail.com mailto:treking...@gmail.com wrote: On Wed, Oct 6, 2010 at 2:49 PM, Kumar Bibek coomar@gmail.com mailto:coomar@gmail.com wrote: Yep, but this might not be a fool proof method. Say, a competitor dev can easily go and mark a new entrant as spam, and leave negative comments. 15-20 such comments and spam flags would obviously be a disadvantage for the new app. Of course, but in my mind it would take a considerable amount of votes to get one ejected - certainly more than 15-20, which still would require a dedicated effort by either a lot of individual competitors or a single company instructing their employees to use such tactics, which one would hope is the exception, not the norm. And of course there would be other criteria. For example, if one developer has 200+ apps, with an average rating of 2 stars and each app has been flagged as spam at least 100 unique times over the course of time, it's fair to assume they're worthless spammers. I'm sure some clever Google Engineer could come up with a fairly reliable algorithm for Market spam detection. A 20% time project, perhaps? --- -- TreKing http://sites.google.com/site/rezmobileapps/treking - Chicago transit tracking app for Android-powered devices -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Android Developers group. To post to this group, send email to android-developers@googlegroups.com mailto:android-developers@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to android-developers+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com
Re: [android-developers] Re: Any proposed changes to the Android Market?
I have a slightly different take on this than the original poster. Currently Google is treating apps like web pages, and using ranking algorithms to highlight the successful apps. The poor apps don't need to be expelled because they are in the rankings basement where nobody sees them. The only place this breaks down is when you browse the new releases and see a bunch of spammy apps that crowd out the real apps that represent a significant amount of work. Here I would like to see a change, but again it does not have to involve moderating apps out. Instead, the publishers who churn out these spammy apps should be marked as high volume publishers and lose the privilege of having their updates featured in the regular new releases section; maybe there could be a single, separate section for high volume new releases and anybody who really wants to look there can do so. The list of legitimate publishers who would be marked high volume by some simple automated algorithm would be short and they could request an exception. That would solve the problem I am seeing without much work. --SJ On Thu, Oct 7, 2010 at 7:31 AM, William Ferguson william.ferguson...@gmail.com wrote: But that's just down to how the Google/Apple marketing departments put the spin on it. If it was 15,000 apps that really deliver vs a horde of apps of dubious quality, then a good marketing department should be able to run hard with that. It could be pitched as an accelerated Darwinian environment. Only the *great* survive here. I can picture the images that would ship with it now. An army of variagated Android Apps on one side surrounded by the dismembered remains of the unfit, and on the other side a horde of insipid apps jammed shoulder to shoulder. Go with the strength. Gee maybe I should have pursued marketting instead of development. Yep - I'm definitely coming down with a fever. On Oct 7, 7:30 pm, String sterling.ud...@googlemail.com wrote: Also, app markets have (unfortunately) become a numbers game in the eyes of the public. It's important for Google to be able to say they have 150,000 (or whatever) apps in the Market; clearing the dregs would drop that number considerably, probably by an order of magnitude. Although this would probably be a better situation, for both devs and users, it's a net loss on the mindshare front. And that's not unimportant to the decision makers. String On Oct 7, 3:33 am, Brad Gies rbg...@gmail.com wrote: The market does this by default already They only have roughly 22 categories, and there are 70,000 apps... which means roughly 3,000 apps per category, and they only show 800... If your app is in the bottom half of your category... it's effectively not there :). Not to say the Market works well at all but in this case it's filtering out the worst of the worst by default :). But, as long as the Market is the only game in town, it's probably not possible for Google to filter it because they are effectively a monopoly and not allowing any app would be a PR nightmare. Apple doesn't really have the same problem because they are not even trying to claim any kind of openness. Sincerely, Brad Gies --- Bistro Bot - Bistro Blurbhttp://bgies.comhttp://bistroblurb.comhttp://ihottonight.comhttp://fo... --- Everything in moderation, including abstinence Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed people can change the world. Indeed. It is the only thing that ever has - Margaret Mead On 06/10/2010 1:08 PM, Kumar Bibek wrote: Agree, but before removing such an app, Google should atleast intimate the dev the reason, else, it won't be fair for the developer. And for this, someone will definitely have to checkout the app in person, before taking it down. Also, if Google wishes to include such a condition in Terms and Conditions, say for example, if you app has 2000 downloads with avg rating of 1.5 stars, your app will be automatically removed, I am not sure, if all the devs would like this. On Thu, Oct 7, 2010 at 1:33 AM, TreKing treking...@gmail.com mailto:treking...@gmail.com wrote: On Wed, Oct 6, 2010 at 2:49 PM, Kumar Bibek coomar@gmail.com mailto:coomar@gmail.com wrote: Yep, but this might not be a fool proof method. Say, a competitor dev can easily go and mark a new entrant as spam, and leave negative comments. 15-20 such comments and spam flags would obviously be a disadvantage for the new app. Of course, but in my mind it would take a considerable amount of votes to get one ejected - certainly more than 15-20, which still would require a dedicated effort by either a lot of individual competitors or a single company instructing their
[android-developers] Re: Any proposed changes to the Android Market?
Rereading the OP, I think I veered a little OT (again). ses is talking about moderating quality (which is much more difficult and I don't think needs to be done or should be) while I'm specifically talking moderating the spam (which automatically implies poor quality). Actually my main concern is those apps that you call 'spam', and I'm glad my thread has prompted some interesting discussion. Obviously if an app is fundamentally functional but has a few issues, it shouldn't be removed. But apps that simply don't work or re-uploaded in different forms in a spamming fashion should be removed. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Android Developers group. To post to this group, send email to android-developers@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to android-developers+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/android-developers?hl=en
[android-developers] Re: Any proposed changes to the Android Market?
Hear head. I'm with TreKing. A simple algorithm for highlighting and pulling the dregs would add enormous value to the market. At the moment its a bit stagnant, pull the plug and let the crap drain away. The good apps and those being improved will be able to stay ahead of the curve. Survival of the fittest, not the most numerous. Its very similar to the strategy being used to thwart denial of services attacks which asks each client to send larger files to validate their intent. DoS client can't afford to consume the extra bandwith and still maintain a DoS attack. Similarly spam developers won't be able to afford to maintain and publish a plethora of crap apps. On Oct 7, 7:11 am, ses stew...@ssims.co.uk wrote: Rereading the OP, I think I veered a little OT (again). ses is talking about moderating quality (which is much more difficult and I don't think needs to be done or should be) while I'm specifically talking moderating the spam (which automatically implies poor quality). Actually my main concern is those apps that you call 'spam', and I'm glad my thread has prompted some interesting discussion. Obviously if an app is fundamentally functional but has a few issues, it shouldn't be removed. But apps that simply don't work or re-uploaded in different forms in a spamming fashion should be removed. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Android Developers group. To post to this group, send email to android-developers@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to android-developers+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/android-developers?hl=en
