Re: [android-developers] Re: BOOT_COMPLETED not being heard
Curious, too late for 2.3.. but is there any reason the boot notification cant be sent out AFTER the sdcard is mounted? Does it take that long to mount it? Would have thought a flash memory card, much like SSD, would be pretty darn fast to mount. On Sat, Jan 15, 2011 at 10:49 PM, Dianne Hackborn hack...@android.comwrote: Sorry, you can point them to that documentation if you want. This is a pretty fundamental aspect of the behavior of the SD card. On Sat, Jan 15, 2011 at 10:16 PM, Zsolt Vasvari zvasv...@gmail.comwrote: That's all good, but the end users don't understand these restrictions and downrank your app if you don't offer the SD card option. I've experienced this first hand -- even if my app is only 1MB. On Jan 16, 11:44 am, Dianne Hackborn hack...@android.com wrote: Yes because the apps on SD card are not mounted by the time the boot completed broadcast is sent. The restrictions, including BOOT_COMPLETED, are documented here: http://developer.android.com/guide/appendix/install-location.html http://developer.android.com/guide/appendix/install-location.htmlNote that it should be clear by this that the feature is *not* intended for use by most applications. The target for it is really large games or other large applications that are self-contained and don't interact with other parts of the system. The fact that the app can disappear at any point in order to transfer data with the SD card is limiting in what it makes sense for such apps to do. On Sat, Jan 15, 2011 at 6:47 PM, Zsolt Vasvari zvasv...@gmail.com wrote: Really? That's not good. I am really starting to think that the move to SD card option is more trouble than it's worth. Of course, not offerring this is an invitation for morons who give 1- stars for any app that doesn't offer it, no matter how small. On Jan 16, 10:33 am, Ken H hunt1...@gmail.com wrote: Figured out the problem...a little pissed by it. Apparently, if your app is designed to listen for the BOOT_COMPLETED broadcast, and you allow it to be moved to the SD card, it will not hear the BOOT_COMPLETED message. Annoying to say the least. Just out of curiosity, after spending several hours trying to fix it, does anybody know why this is? Ken H -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Android Developers group. To post to this group, send email to android-developers@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to android-developers+unsubscr...@googlegroups.comandroid-developers%2bunsubscr...@googlegroups.com android-developers%2Bunsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/android-developers?hl=en -- Dianne Hackborn Android framework engineer hack...@android.com Note: please don't send private questions to me, as I don't have time to provide private support, and so won't reply to such e-mails. All such questions should be posted on public forums, where I and others can see and answer them.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Android Developers group. To post to this group, send email to android-developers@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to android-developers+unsubscr...@googlegroups.comandroid-developers%2bunsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/android-developers?hl=en -- Dianne Hackborn Android framework engineer hack...@android.com Note: please don't send private questions to me, as I don't have time to provide private support, and so won't reply to such e-mails. All such questions should be posted on public forums, where I and others can see and answer them. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Android Developers group. To post to this group, send email to android-developers@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to android-developers+unsubscr...@googlegroups.comandroid-developers%2bunsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/android-developers?hl=en -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Android Developers group. To post to this group, send email to android-developers@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to android-developers+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/android-developers?hl=en
Re: [android-developers] Re: BOOT_COMPLETED not being heard
On 16 January 2011 07:49, Dianne Hackborn hack...@android.com wrote: Sorry, you can point them to that documentation if you want. This is a pretty fundamental aspect of the behavior of the SD card. Are you kidding? I'd say that forseeing such user behaviour is pretty fundamental when you design anything. It'd not hurt too add a warning popup telling user to confirm move to sd card and ack s/he understand the risk of certain features of the app (which can easlily be told in most cases based on app's Manifest) simply just won't work. Assuming users are by default smart not stupid is stupid, not smart. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Android Developers group. To post to this group, send email to android-developers@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to android-developers+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/android-developers?hl=en
[android-developers] Re: BOOT_COMPLETED not being heard
I agree. A smart user wouldn't complain in the first place about not having the Move to SD card option for a 1MB app. On Jan 16, 6:12 pm, Marcin Orlowski webnet.andr...@gmail.com wrote: On 16 January 2011 07:49, Dianne Hackborn hack...@android.com wrote: Sorry, you can point them to that documentation if you want. This is a pretty fundamental aspect of the behavior of the SD card. Are you kidding? I'd say that forseeing such user behaviour is pretty fundamental when you design anything. It'd not hurt too add a warning popup telling user to confirm move to sd card and ack s/he understand the risk of certain features of the app (which can easlily be told in most cases based on app's Manifest) simply just won't work. Assuming users are by default smart not stupid is stupid, not smart. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Android Developers group. To post to this group, send email to android-developers@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to android-developers+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/android-developers?hl=en
Re: [android-developers] Re: BOOT_COMPLETED not being heard
On 01/16/2011 12:21 PM, Zsolt Vasvari wrote: I agree. A smart user wouldn't complain in the first place about not having the Move to SD card option for a 1MB app. Opinion: It would be nice if the Move to SD card-function could detect that the application requests for instance BOOT_COMPLETED or has a widget etc and inform the user that those functions will no longer work as expected if the move is completed. This assumes that the application isn't installed on the SD by default and that the user understands the warning so I'm not really holding my breath for it. I guess the best you can do as a developer is to detect that the app is running from SD and inform the user about the drawbacks on the next start. Hardly ideal, but better than nothing. At least the explanation can then be very specific as opposed to what a generic function would have to state. As with many apps, it is not obvious that the automatic startup or widget function is a critical function of the application, it may just be a nice frill that is seldom used (I know my self that I really only ever use ONE widget and that one has no other function than being a widget - it shows the next few calendar items). My few cents / Jonas On Jan 16, 6:12 pm, Marcin Orlowskiwebnet.andr...@gmail.com wrote: On 16 January 2011 07:49, Dianne Hackbornhack...@android.com wrote: Sorry, you can point them to that documentation if you want. This is a pretty fundamental aspect of the behavior of the SD card. Are you kidding? I'd say that forseeing such user behaviour is pretty fundamental when you design anything. It'd not hurt too add a warning popup telling user to confirm move to sd card and ack s/he understand the risk of certain features of the app (which can easlily be told in most cases based on app's Manifest) simply just won't work. Assuming users are by default smart not stupid is stupid, not smart. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Android Developers group. To post to this group, send email to android-developers@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to android-developers+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/android-developers?hl=en
Re: [android-developers] Re: BOOT_COMPLETED not being heard
Agreed. The intended use case for move to sd was for games or multimedia applications, but I see users wanting to move even small applications. It's actually a valid case for applications that have large code, or use a large amount of data / cache storage (so move to sd makes sense), and also have a widget or a service. For widgets, the home screen could indicate that the widget is disabled, similar to how it already does for missing widget providers (the cannot load gadget message, btw, shouldn't that be widget?). This is already better than removing it from the home screen without any indication whatsoever. The launcher could also keep the RemoteViews until the memory card is again available, and then reinstate the widget to full working state. It already does almost the same thing on orientation changes. For services, it would have been possible to listen for ACTION_EXTERNAL_APPLICATIONS_AVAILABLE and restart your service / reset your alarms then, execept that the affected applications do not receive this broadcast (I don't understand why, so I must be missing something). -- Kostya 2011/1/16 Jonas Petersson jonas.peters...@xms.se On 01/16/2011 12:21 PM, Zsolt Vasvari wrote: I agree. A smart user wouldn't complain in the first place about not having the Move to SD card option for a 1MB app. Opinion: It would be nice if the Move to SD card-function could detect that the application requests for instance BOOT_COMPLETED or has a widget etc and inform the user that those functions will no longer work as expected if the move is completed. This assumes that the application isn't installed on the SD by default and that the user understands the warning so I'm not really holding my breath for it. I guess the best you can do as a developer is to detect that the app is running from SD and inform the user about the drawbacks on the next start. Hardly ideal, but better than nothing. At least the explanation can then be very specific as opposed to what a generic function would have to state. As with many apps, it is not obvious that the automatic startup or widget function is a critical function of the application, it may just be a nice frill that is seldom used (I know my self that I really only ever use ONE widget and that one has no other function than being a widget - it shows the next few calendar items). My few cents / Jonas On Jan 16, 6:12 pm, Marcin Orlowskiwebnet.andr...@gmail.com wrote: On 16 January 2011 07:49, Dianne Hackbornhack...@android.com wrote: Sorry, you can point them to that documentation if you want. This is a pretty fundamental aspect of the behavior of the SD card. Are you kidding? I'd say that forseeing such user behaviour is pretty fundamental when you design anything. It'd not hurt too add a warning popup telling user to confirm move to sd card and ack s/he understand the risk of certain features of the app (which can easlily be told in most cases based on app's Manifest) simply just won't work. Assuming users are by default smart not stupid is stupid, not smart. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Android Developers group. To post to this group, send email to android-developers@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to android-developers+unsubscr...@googlegroups.comandroid-developers%2bunsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/android-developers?hl=en -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Android Developers group. To post to this group, send email to android-developers@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to android-developers+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/android-developers?hl=en
Re: [android-developers] Re: BOOT_COMPLETED not being heard
On Sun, Jan 16, 2011 at 8:24 AM, Kostya Vasilyev kmans...@gmail.com wrote: It's actually a valid case for applications that have large code Bear in mind that a copy of the large code will also be on the on-board storage. or use a large amount of data / cache storage (so move to sd makes sense), and also have a widget or a service. The .apk file is saved on the external storage, but all private user data, databases, optimized .dex files, and extracted native code are saved on the internal device memory. http://developer.android.com/guide/appendix/install-location.html -- Mark Murphy (a Commons Guy) http://commonsware.com | http://github.com/commonsguy http://commonsware.com/blog | http://twitter.com/commonsguy _Android Programming Tutorials_ Version 3.1 Available! -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Android Developers group. To post to this group, send email to android-developers@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to android-developers+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/android-developers?hl=en
Re: [android-developers] Re: BOOT_COMPLETED not being heard
2011/1/16 Mark Murphy mmur...@commonsware.com On Sun, Jan 16, 2011 at 8:24 AM, Kostya Vasilyev kmans...@gmail.com wrote: It's actually a valid case for applications that have large code Bear in mind that a copy of the large code will also be on the on-board storage. Thanks for the link - I just re-read it more carefully than before. It's too bad, seems like the only win is for application resources. Still, I have to agree with Jonas - the app management screen has all the necessary data to inform the the user about apps that contain widgets or listen for boot_completed (or other components listed at that page), and could do this even for apps that don't allow move to sd in the manifest. or use a large amount of data / cache storage (so move to sd makes sense), and also have a widget or a service. The .apk file is saved on the external storage, but all private user data, databases, optimized .dex files, and extracted native code are saved on the internal device memory. http://developer.android.com/guide/appendix/install-location.html -- Mark Murphy (a Commons Guy) http://commonsware.com | http://github.com/commonsguy http://commonsware.com/blog | http://twitter.com/commonsguy _Android Programming Tutorials_ Version 3.1 Available! -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Android Developers group. To post to this group, send email to android-developers@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to android-developers+unsubscr...@googlegroups.comandroid-developers%2bunsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/android-developers?hl=en -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Android Developers group. To post to this group, send email to android-developers@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to android-developers+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/android-developers?hl=en
[android-developers] Re: BOOT_COMPLETED not being heard
Really? That's not good. I am really starting to think that the move to SD card option is more trouble than it's worth. Of course, not offerring this is an invitation for morons who give 1- stars for any app that doesn't offer it, no matter how small. On Jan 16, 10:33 am, Ken H hunt1...@gmail.com wrote: Figured out the problem...a little pissed by it. Apparently, if your app is designed to listen for the BOOT_COMPLETED broadcast, and you allow it to be moved to the SD card, it will not hear the BOOT_COMPLETED message. Annoying to say the least. Just out of curiosity, after spending several hours trying to fix it, does anybody know why this is? Ken H -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Android Developers group. To post to this group, send email to android-developers@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to android-developers+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/android-developers?hl=en
Re: [android-developers] Re: BOOT_COMPLETED not being heard
Yes because the apps on SD card are not mounted by the time the boot completed broadcast is sent. The restrictions, including BOOT_COMPLETED, are documented here: http://developer.android.com/guide/appendix/install-location.html http://developer.android.com/guide/appendix/install-location.htmlNote that it should be clear by this that the feature is *not* intended for use by most applications. The target for it is really large games or other large applications that are self-contained and don't interact with other parts of the system. The fact that the app can disappear at any point in order to transfer data with the SD card is limiting in what it makes sense for such apps to do. On Sat, Jan 15, 2011 at 6:47 PM, Zsolt Vasvari zvasv...@gmail.com wrote: Really? That's not good. I am really starting to think that the move to SD card option is more trouble than it's worth. Of course, not offerring this is an invitation for morons who give 1- stars for any app that doesn't offer it, no matter how small. On Jan 16, 10:33 am, Ken H hunt1...@gmail.com wrote: Figured out the problem...a little pissed by it. Apparently, if your app is designed to listen for the BOOT_COMPLETED broadcast, and you allow it to be moved to the SD card, it will not hear the BOOT_COMPLETED message. Annoying to say the least. Just out of curiosity, after spending several hours trying to fix it, does anybody know why this is? Ken H -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Android Developers group. To post to this group, send email to android-developers@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to android-developers+unsubscr...@googlegroups.comandroid-developers%2bunsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/android-developers?hl=en -- Dianne Hackborn Android framework engineer hack...@android.com Note: please don't send private questions to me, as I don't have time to provide private support, and so won't reply to such e-mails. All such questions should be posted on public forums, where I and others can see and answer them. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Android Developers group. To post to this group, send email to android-developers@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to android-developers+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/android-developers?hl=en
[android-developers] Re: BOOT_COMPLETED not being heard
That's all good, but the end users don't understand these restrictions and downrank your app if you don't offer the SD card option. I've experienced this first hand -- even if my app is only 1MB. On Jan 16, 11:44 am, Dianne Hackborn hack...@android.com wrote: Yes because the apps on SD card are not mounted by the time the boot completed broadcast is sent. The restrictions, including BOOT_COMPLETED, are documented here: http://developer.android.com/guide/appendix/install-location.html http://developer.android.com/guide/appendix/install-location.htmlNote that it should be clear by this that the feature is *not* intended for use by most applications. The target for it is really large games or other large applications that are self-contained and don't interact with other parts of the system. The fact that the app can disappear at any point in order to transfer data with the SD card is limiting in what it makes sense for such apps to do. On Sat, Jan 15, 2011 at 6:47 PM, Zsolt Vasvari zvasv...@gmail.com wrote: Really? That's not good. I am really starting to think that the move to SD card option is more trouble than it's worth. Of course, not offerring this is an invitation for morons who give 1- stars for any app that doesn't offer it, no matter how small. On Jan 16, 10:33 am, Ken H hunt1...@gmail.com wrote: Figured out the problem...a little pissed by it. Apparently, if your app is designed to listen for the BOOT_COMPLETED broadcast, and you allow it to be moved to the SD card, it will not hear the BOOT_COMPLETED message. Annoying to say the least. Just out of curiosity, after spending several hours trying to fix it, does anybody know why this is? Ken H -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Android Developers group. To post to this group, send email to android-developers@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to android-developers+unsubscr...@googlegroups.comandroid-developers%2Bunsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/android-developers?hl=en -- Dianne Hackborn Android framework engineer hack...@android.com Note: please don't send private questions to me, as I don't have time to provide private support, and so won't reply to such e-mails. All such questions should be posted on public forums, where I and others can see and answer them.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Android Developers group. To post to this group, send email to android-developers@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to android-developers+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/android-developers?hl=en
Re: [android-developers] Re: BOOT_COMPLETED not being heard
Sorry, you can point them to that documentation if you want. This is a pretty fundamental aspect of the behavior of the SD card. On Sat, Jan 15, 2011 at 10:16 PM, Zsolt Vasvari zvasv...@gmail.com wrote: That's all good, but the end users don't understand these restrictions and downrank your app if you don't offer the SD card option. I've experienced this first hand -- even if my app is only 1MB. On Jan 16, 11:44 am, Dianne Hackborn hack...@android.com wrote: Yes because the apps on SD card are not mounted by the time the boot completed broadcast is sent. The restrictions, including BOOT_COMPLETED, are documented here: http://developer.android.com/guide/appendix/install-location.html http://developer.android.com/guide/appendix/install-location.htmlNote that it should be clear by this that the feature is *not* intended for use by most applications. The target for it is really large games or other large applications that are self-contained and don't interact with other parts of the system. The fact that the app can disappear at any point in order to transfer data with the SD card is limiting in what it makes sense for such apps to do. On Sat, Jan 15, 2011 at 6:47 PM, Zsolt Vasvari zvasv...@gmail.com wrote: Really? That's not good. I am really starting to think that the move to SD card option is more trouble than it's worth. Of course, not offerring this is an invitation for morons who give 1- stars for any app that doesn't offer it, no matter how small. On Jan 16, 10:33 am, Ken H hunt1...@gmail.com wrote: Figured out the problem...a little pissed by it. Apparently, if your app is designed to listen for the BOOT_COMPLETED broadcast, and you allow it to be moved to the SD card, it will not hear the BOOT_COMPLETED message. Annoying to say the least. Just out of curiosity, after spending several hours trying to fix it, does anybody know why this is? Ken H -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Android Developers group. To post to this group, send email to android-developers@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to android-developers+unsubscr...@googlegroups.comandroid-developers%2bunsubscr...@googlegroups.com android-developers%2Bunsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/android-developers?hl=en -- Dianne Hackborn Android framework engineer hack...@android.com Note: please don't send private questions to me, as I don't have time to provide private support, and so won't reply to such e-mails. All such questions should be posted on public forums, where I and others can see and answer them.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Android Developers group. To post to this group, send email to android-developers@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to android-developers+unsubscr...@googlegroups.comandroid-developers%2bunsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/android-developers?hl=en -- Dianne Hackborn Android framework engineer hack...@android.com Note: please don't send private questions to me, as I don't have time to provide private support, and so won't reply to such e-mails. All such questions should be posted on public forums, where I and others can see and answer them. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Android Developers group. To post to this group, send email to android-developers@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to android-developers+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/android-developers?hl=en
