Re: [android-developers] Re: Being legally harassed, by a large iPhone developer
I am not a lawyer and this is not legal advice. I have some experience and have done some reading in this regard, however. Laws differ in each country, and if they were to sue you for trademark infringement, they would have to do so in each country they wish for you to stop selling your app or to pursue damages. In the U.S., copyright law protects the original author/artist from others copying the work or making a derivative work without permission. The definition of a derivative work is not clear to me. With software, they would have to show that you use some of their software (source code or object code) without permission, e.g. by reverse engineering, linking some of their libraries (such libraries not expressly permitting doing so), or out right theft of their code. With graphics, I don't know how they prove it. It's very subjective, and the commonality of pre-existing material (e.g. an H used for a helo-pad) may work in your favor. I would file for a copyright with the U.S. copyright office. I think you simply have to send them a copy of your work and fill out a registration form. If you have earlier records of when your work was first available, I would hang on to those as well. If you have a similar organization in your country, then you should do the same there. If you can do so in any country your app is selling, then do that as well. Unfortunately, they may decide to push ahead with lawsuits. You should most definitely consult with lawyers. The initial consult may be free. Depending on the laws, if you win, you may be able to sue for court costs and legal fees. Best of luck! Patrick -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Android Developers group. To post to this group, send email to android-developers@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to android-developers+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/android-developers?hl=en To unsubscribe from this group, send email to android-developers+unsubscribegooglegroups.com or reply to this email with the words REMOVE ME as the subject.
Re: [android-developers] Re: Being legally harassed, by a large iPhone developer
Here's an idiots guide to copyright from the US copyright office: http://www.copyright.gov/circs/circ1.pdf Great info on their general site as well: http://www.copyright.gov Brief synopsis from the PDF (please read the whole thing to interpret your own way): Who Can Claim Copyright? Copyright protection subsists from the time the work is cre ated in fixed form. The copyright in the work of authorship immediately becomes the property of the author who cre ated the work. Only the author or those deriving their rights through the author can rightfully claim copyright. So basically, filing a copyright claim with the US copyright office is basically a formality in my un-copyright-educated opinion. It's a good thing to do in order to cover your ass though. I've been thinking about doing this with all of my apps just as a formality if I think anything will come of them. Justin On Tue, Mar 23, 2010 at 8:34 AM, JP joachim.pfeif...@gmail.com wrote: On Mar 22, 9:02 pm, Kevin Duffey andjar...@gmail.com wrote: I don't know that I would take a couple of emails from the CEO as something to worry about just yet Concur, good advise. Consider that in this industry, plenty of people who give themselves C level type titles still live in the basement at their parent's house, munching on Tostitos. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Android Developers group. To post to this group, send email to android-developers@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to android-developers+unsubscr...@googlegroups.comandroid-developers%2bunsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/android-developers?hl=en To unsubscribe from this group, send email to android-developers+ unsubscribegooglegroups.com or reply to this email with the words REMOVE ME as the subject. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Android Developers group. To post to this group, send email to android-developers@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to android-developers+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/android-developers?hl=en To unsubscribe from this group, send email to android-developers+unsubscribegooglegroups.com or reply to this email with the words REMOVE ME as the subject.
Re: [android-developers] Re: Being legally harassed, by a large iPhone developer
Again, I'm no legal advisor, but doing a quick search on the US Copyrights (via the sites I mentioned earlier), I found nothing pertaining to Flight Control as a game. Just a FYI. Do your own research though. On Tue, Mar 23, 2010 at 8:42 AM, Justin Giles jtgi...@gmail.com wrote: Here's an idiots guide to copyright from the US copyright office: http://www.copyright.gov/circs/circ1.pdf Great info on their general site as well: http://www.copyright.gov Brief synopsis from the PDF (please read the whole thing to interpret your own way): Who Can Claim Copyright? Copyright protection subsists from the time the work is cre ated in fixed form. The copyright in the work of authorship immediately becomes the property of the author who cre ated the work. Only the author or those deriving their rights through the author can rightfully claim copyright. So basically, filing a copyright claim with the US copyright office is basically a formality in my un-copyright-educated opinion. It's a good thing to do in order to cover your ass though. I've been thinking about doing this with all of my apps just as a formality if I think anything will come of them. Justin On Tue, Mar 23, 2010 at 8:34 AM, JP joachim.pfeif...@gmail.com wrote: On Mar 22, 9:02 pm, Kevin Duffey andjar...@gmail.com wrote: I don't know that I would take a couple of emails from the CEO as something to worry about just yet Concur, good advise. Consider that in this industry, plenty of people who give themselves C level type titles still live in the basement at their parent's house, munching on Tostitos. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Android Developers group. To post to this group, send email to android-developers@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to android-developers+unsubscr...@googlegroups.comandroid-developers%2bunsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/android-developers?hl=en To unsubscribe from this group, send email to android-developers+ unsubscribegooglegroups.com or reply to this email with the words REMOVE ME as the subject. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Android Developers group. To post to this group, send email to android-developers@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to android-developers+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/android-developers?hl=en To unsubscribe from this group, send email to android-developers+unsubscribegooglegroups.com or reply to this email with the words REMOVE ME as the subject.
Re: [android-developers] Re: Being legally harassed, by a large iPhone developer
On 03/23/2010 07:06 AM, Yahel wrote: It's a simple line drawing game, of which there are now several variations on a similar theme. If this this kind of game is as ubiquitous as you say, just find a game (web, flash, iphone, nokia, java, really any platform) that uses the same kind of gameplay, alerts and all and which is not theirs and older than their release. Then just point that game out to them. This sounds like a bad idea -- all you're likely to be doing is feeding the troll. Seriously, the right thing to do here is ask for advise from an expert. The advise you get here is likely to be as useful as going to a lawyer and asking him about the Android SDK. Mike -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Android Developers group. To post to this group, send email to android-developers@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to android-developers+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/android-developers?hl=en To unsubscribe from this group, send email to android-developers+unsubscribegooglegroups.com or reply to this email with the words REMOVE ME as the subject.
Re: [android-developers] Re: Being legally harassed, by a large iPhone developer
Seriously, the right thing to do here is ask for advise from an expert. The advise you get here is likely to be as useful as going to a lawyer and asking him about the Android SDK. Very valid and probably the best piece of advice so far! :) But, it is still nice to get other points of view and pointers to resources before you head into the belly of the beast. You can never have too much information IMHO. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Android Developers group. To post to this group, send email to android-developers@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to android-developers+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/android-developers?hl=en To unsubscribe from this group, send email to android-developers+unsubscribegooglegroups.com or reply to this email with the words REMOVE ME as the subject.
Re: [android-developers] Re: Being legally harassed, by a large iPhone developer
On 03/23/2010 07:53 AM, Justin Giles wrote: Seriously, the right thing to do here is ask for advise from an expert. The advise you get here is likely to be as useful as going to a lawyer and asking him about the Android SDK. Very valid and probably the best piece of advice so far! :) But, it is still nice to get other points of view and pointers to resources before you head into the belly of the beast. You can never have too much information IMHO. As with many things, it's quality not quantity :) Seriously, over the years what I've found is that what most of us know about the law is skin deep. What this guy is going through is quite probably complete bs, but that doesn't matter if he doesn't know how to defend himself. Mike -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Android Developers group. To post to this group, send email to android-developers@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to android-developers+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/android-developers?hl=en To unsubscribe from this group, send email to android-developers+unsubscribegooglegroups.com or reply to this email with the words REMOVE ME as the subject.
Re: [android-developers] Re: Being legally harassed, by a large iPhone developer
Richard/Patrick It will probably come down to how much they want to really pay and pursue this. It might just be a scare tactic because if they are jumping from the iphone over to Android with their app then their natural first reaction would be to scare off the competition. One this is for sure if I was you. I would not back down. I would would be quite angry and pursue it. I have been working on my app for about 5 months now and it will be my first app but in reading what you have gone though and what other developers have gone though. I am not worried about bug fixes or my app itself when I put it on the market. I am worried about the legal issues. I REALLY think that is the bigger deal with Android and it being open for people to make what they want and I am REALLY trying everything I can to avoid that with my application. I did find someone that does hold a patent on something that my app centers around and I did contact them and they will eventuate my application before I post it on the market. I hope that is enough. lol So I really do which you luck Richard and PLEASE let us know what comes of this. As some of us might be in the same boat -Chris On Tue, Mar 23, 2010 at 9:50 AM, Richard rtaylor...@googlemail.com wrote: Thanks for all the advice everybody, I know nobody here is an expert. I am actually in the UK, and Firemint are Australian - so the US laws don't actually apply, but I can't imagine ours differ that much. And yes, ofcourse I had seen their game beforehand (only actually played for 5 minutes) and thought it was a good idea. The style is pretty much generic cartoonish - I'd say mine has a unique OTT cartoony style if anything. Chris: As far as I'm aware, from what I've been told (and what appears to have come of this Apple vs HTC lawsuit thing) that patents are what are being infringed, they need to be down on paper and approved rather than a 'we did that first'. Infact, I looked up the First-To-Patent vs First-To-Invent, and it seems that only the US goes for the 'First to invent' rule. So if they haven't actually got a patent, technically, I could run down to a lawyer, shell out a couple k, and then sue there a** back, right? :P I also have quite a few features that don't appear in there game. I have different styles of game, helicopter only, timed modes, weather, bonus parachutes dropping the from sky, obstacles to avoid and multipliers to collect. Not to mention a lot of unlockables / achievements. From what I remember (at the time I launched my game anyway) there's was simple starting slowly, and building up speed. I asked a few more questions about what exactly they were questioning in my last message to them, they are yet to get back. I'm not too worried about things at the minute, right now I think they are just trying to knock competition out of the way for when they release. They haven't actually worded that they will be threatening me legally, but it's implied in the way they demand things. It's just a little disconcerting for me, a student that just wants a bit of extra money for his cider addiction, should have to deal with corporate arrogance like this. Thanks Again Richard On Mar 23, 3:30 pm, chris harper ch393...@gmail.com wrote: I agree. If I were in your boots (which ANY of us can be because any A-HOLE can compare any application we develop to almost any feature in someone else app). Then I would seek legal advice. My questions would be. A. Isn't copyright taking something (not having something similar to) something someone used and modifying and reusing it? Which you didn't did do so then how how can they clam copyright infringement? B. If it is SIMILAR to their application then don't they need a patent on it for you to cease and desist? I mean that IS the purpose of patents right? That is why people pay thousands of dollars for a patent?? If they don't have a patent on it then why does it matter if what you did is similar to what they did? It's an open idea? Open idea meaning they don't have a patent on it so anyone can do the same thing. These would be the questions I would ask and yes I would talk to someone who can represent you. I am interested in the outcome. Please let us all know as we could all have this same issue. -Chris On Sun, Mar 21, 2010 at 6:24 PM, Richard rtaylor...@googlemail.com wrote: Hi everyone, I'm the developer of a game, Flying Aces, that was released last September. It's a simple line drawing game, of which there are now several variations on a similar theme. There is a very popular iPhone game, Flight Control, that is one of the most popular (over 2 million sales) developed by Firemint. Firemint, according to their website, are porting their Flight Control game to Android very soon. I was contacted last week, with this email: http://stickycoding.com/fa1.pdf I promptly replied,
Re: [android-developers] Re: Being legally harassed, by a large iPhone developer
Last year, I got a CD letter for a memory matching iPhone game I built from a German company who patents the word Memory and its game play(?). Ridiculous huh? Since I'm not under any freakin' Germany juris-dick-tion, I simply removed my app for sale in German region. (BTW, the game is free). No more letters since then. So Richard, you might simply un-check Australia for your app target regions and be done with it ;) -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Android Developers group. To post to this group, send email to android-developers@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to android-developers+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/android-developers?hl=en To unsubscribe from this group, send email to android-developers+unsubscribegooglegroups.com or reply to this email with the words REMOVE ME as the subject.
Re: [android-developers] Re: Being legally harassed, by a large iPhone developer
On Tue, Mar 23, 2010 at 11:03 AM, Hong lordh...@gmail.com wrote: But the game is free. I don't see the point of breaking my wallet to license it... Seriously, for indie developers, what can they do? Think of an original idea. -- Greg Donald destiney.com | gregdonald.com -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Android Developers group. To post to this group, send email to android-developers@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to android-developers+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/android-developers?hl=en To unsubscribe from this group, send email to android-developers+unsubscribegooglegroups.com or reply to this email with the words REMOVE ME as the subject.
Re: [android-developers] Re: Being legally harassed, by a large iPhone developer
So question Richard... btw, I play the trial game.. great job on that game. Have you ever played their game before you wrote yours... did you get the idea for your game from theirs? They site specific details, like the layout of the runways, the premise of the game, edge alerts, etc... that sounds very similar to what your game is. I don't know that I would take a couple of emails from the CEO as something to worry about just yet. I'd do as the other guy said above.. ask them what specifically they refer to that you stole from their game, etc. However, I would guess if they trademarked/copyrighted their game, you may have no choice. But the letter isn't from a legal firm or anything at this point.. it wouldn't hurt to get legal representation, as well, maybe youtube their game and read up on when it was published, when you started yours, etc. Who knows..maybe they stole your idea and just copyrighted/trademarked it and you didn't, so they feel they have some legal ground to stand on. On Mon, Mar 22, 2010 at 1:19 PM, Mario Zechner badlogicga...@gmail.comwrote: I have no legal advice as i'm the last person to ask about such questions. I just want to share my concern that this will happen to a lot of game developers on Android. If you happen to get more info on the matter from say a proper legal advisor please share it here with us. On 22 Mrz., 19:34, MrChaz mrchazmob...@googlemail.com wrote: I guess it depends on just how similar the layout of the levels are, they might have a case for IP infringement. I don't think they can have any claim over the gameplay etc but if the art style and layout is a clone they I dunno IP law seems really complicated :( I would seriously contact a lawyer to see where you stand On Mar 22, 12:24 am, Richard rtaylor...@googlemail.com wrote: Hi everyone, I'm the developer of a game, Flying Aces, that was released last September. It's a simple line drawing game, of which there are now several variations on a similar theme. There is a very popular iPhone game, Flight Control, that is one of the most popular (over 2 million sales) developed by Firemint. Firemint, according to their website, are porting their Flight Control game to Android very soon. I was contacted last week, with this email: http://stickycoding.com/fa1.pdf I promptly replied, asking whether it was some kind of joke, and asked whether they are accusing me of using any of their graphics/audio/ resources (which I do not). I got this response today:http://stickycoding.com/fa2.pdf They appear to be demanding (they haven't explicitly mentioned, but I'm sure they will mention legal proceedings in their next reply) that I stop selling my game, because it is vaguely similar to theirs. Now, yes, you land planes by dragging a path, but that's the line-drawing genre. And mentioning similar things such as helicopter landing site with a big H. Does anyone have any opinions on this matter? I'm assuming they have contacted developers of similar apps (Flight Director is very similar to my game, and is more popular, I would assume they were contacted first) so I've emailed them to see. I don't take to kindly to larger businesses trying to nudge indie devs like myself out of the way to create a monopoly for there game before it is even published. I know this isn't a programming question but, I figured it applies to many developers like myself, and there isn't much in the way of advice other than on here. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Android Developers group. To post to this group, send email to android-developers@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to android-developers+unsubscr...@googlegroups.comandroid-developers%2bunsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/android-developers?hl=en To unsubscribe from this group, send email to android-developers+ unsubscribegooglegroups.com or reply to this email with the words REMOVE ME as the subject. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Android Developers group. To post to this group, send email to android-developers@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to android-developers+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/android-developers?hl=en To unsubscribe from this group, send email to android-developers+unsubscribegooglegroups.com or reply to this email with the words REMOVE ME as the subject.
