Re: [anti-abuse-wg] What is YAHOONET?

2021-03-17 Thread Richard Clayton
In message <8dfb9cd5-8088-02af-2245-0eaf3f96f...@tana.it>, Alessandro
Vesely  writes

>However, IP addresses for mail seem to use ARIN networks, such as:
>A-YAHOO-US2 66.163.160.0-66.163.191.255,
>A-YAHOO-US3 209.191.64.0-209.191.127.255,
>...
>A-YAHOO-US8 67.195.0.0-67.195.255.255,
>A-YAHOO-US9 98.136.0.0-98.139.255.255,
>...

it depends where in the world you are

tryhttps://postmaster.verizonmedia.com/

which has links to (a) a complete list of relevant IPs
and(b) a working link to an abuse reporting form.

>RIPE's YAHOONET, 77.238.177.0-77.238.177.255, seems to be an abandoned object.

it's maintained by YAHOO-MNT so hardly "abandoned"

Also you will note that the email address in  NA4112-RIPE is now updated

-- 
richard   writing to inform and not as company policy

"Assembly of Japanese bicycle require great peace of mind" quoted in ZAMM


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Re: [anti-abuse-wg] Proposed Training on Anti-Abuse

2021-03-17 Thread Alessandro Vesely

On Wed 17/Mar/2021 15:42:26 +0100 alireza vaziri wrote:
I have attached the draft proposal of the training and it would be great to 
provide us with your feedback



The draft states four general principle.  The 4th is expressed as:

   - The community expects you to handle Abuse in your network
 and keep the resources you have been granted clean

That's very nice and fully agreeable.  However, in today's "object oriented" 
world, I'd rather express it as:


   - The way you handle Abuse in your network is going to
 define the quality of the resources granted to you


jm2c
Ale
--










Re: [anti-abuse-wg] What is YAHOONET?

2021-03-17 Thread Alessandro Vesely

As someone pointed out off-list, there's plenty of @yahoo.com email addresses.

However, IP addresses for mail seem to use ARIN networks, such as:
A-YAHOO-US2 66.163.160.0-66.163.191.255,
A-YAHOO-US3 209.191.64.0-209.191.127.255,
...
A-YAHOO-US8 67.195.0.0-67.195.255.255,
A-YAHOO-US9 98.136.0.0-98.139.255.255,
...

RIPE's YAHOONET, 77.238.177.0-77.238.177.255, seems to be an abandoned object.

Best
Ale

 Original Message 
Subject: [anti-abuse-wg] What is YAHOONET?
Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2021 09:46:45 +0100
From: Alessandro Vesely 
To: anti-abuse-wg@ripe.net

Hi all,

I'm aware of the various pages that Wikipedia dedicate to Yahoo! and related 
services.  I'm unsure how to treat YAHOONET as an ISP.


The abuse contact they registered at RIPE in 2007 is ab...@yahoo-inc.com.  It 
bounces.  I wrote to network-ab...@cc.yahoo-inc.com asking what address should 
I use for complaints.  I got an automated reply telling me to go to:

https://io.help.yahoo.com/contact/index?page=contact&locale=en_US&y=PROD_MAIL_ML

That link ultimately redirects to the same host/path with the query string 
replaced by "page=oops".


I had tried to contact someone at Yahoo! before.  I don't think it's worth 
trying again.  So I think I'm going to put YAHOONET in the heavily firewalled 
list of ISPs with no abuse team.  I hesitated because I used to consider Yahoo! 
something big, with possibly many worthy customers.  Is it still so?  I mean, 
would any savvy netizen face the Internet through such an ISP?



Best
Ale
--

















[anti-abuse-wg] Proposed Training on Anti-Abuse

2021-03-17 Thread alireza vaziri
Hi friends,
As we have got several requests and inputs on Anti-Abuse training for LIRs
on RIPE 80, we have decided to put up useful information for small and/or
new LIRs on abuse handling, in a short webinar format with the help of the
RIPE NCC training department.

I have attached the draft proposal of the training and it would be great to
provide us with your feedback and input as long as it has to help you by
reducing the number of unwanted abuses from small and/or new LIRs.

Cheers,
Alireza

-- 
Alireza Vaziri
RIPE AA-WG Co-Chair
Context

The Internet is a complex ecosystem where many people and organisations 
converge, with differing outlooks and motivations. While the vast majority of 
these are for the general good, sadly that is not always the case. To deal with 
this negative part, the RIPE Community created the Anti-Abuse Working Group 
that aims to tackle online abuse from both the technical and non-technical 
angles.

Some of the ideas that can be useful to understand the context of anti-abuse 
and how important collaboration and mutual understanding is, are:

- Your outbound is somebody’s inbound. And vice versa.
- My network, my rules. You want your rules accepted, accept the rules of 
others as well.
- You define what abuse is. So do others. Be respectful and try to solve the 
issues together.
- The community expects you to handle Abuse in your network and keep the 
resources you have been granted clean

It is also not possible to have a one-fit-all definition of abuse. To say the 
least it depends on the point of view, so you define when enough is enough. 
Twitter has a different definition than a small LIR. While you have your 
definition and Twitter has its own, don't judge another person for complaining 
about what they define as abuse of their network. Be reasonable!

In addition to this, there are different types of resources to be considered. 
For example, due to enormous IPv6 address space and v6 spammers constantly 
changing their prefixes, it is not clear yet what are the best practices 
fighting IPv6 abuses.

Despite the difficulties on defining anti-abuse, the WG considers that a 
training activity about anti-abuse could be of great help.


Anti-abuse training

- Title: Anti-abuse for LIRs

- Target audience: Small new LIRs (mostly), but also all the other ones (eg. 
old-big ones can share more with the new ones)

- Topic: How to report and handle abuse of your LIR resources (IPs and ASNs)

- Stakeholders: RIPE NCC’s LIRs (with special focus on very small LIRs that 
doesn’t know where and how to report abuse), targets of abuse, "facilitators" 
of abuse, the ones that abuse, LIRs with resources in other RIRs

- Format: webinar (1-2 hrs) with trainers and interaction (questions and polls)
 *In the future we can develop other reference materials for easy 
sharing: BCOPs, RIPElabs articles, etc.
- Pedagogical approach: adult learning for professionals, where they will learn 
actionable things that are useful for their daily job.

- Scope: We consider abuse and anti-abuse from the point of view of RIPE 
NCC’s LIRs and related with Internet numeric resources (IPs and ASNs)

- Main Goals (from the participant point of view):
1) Explain the "abuse" context, and identify your place on it
2) Understand what is expected from you from the Internet community
Examples of questions to ask yourself: What led your network to abuse 
others?, Am I attacking others currently?, How do I know?, Where should I check 
my reputation?
3) Define a plan about what you, as an LIR, can do for others about 
fighting abuse
 Examples: maintain your anti-abuse contact info, report on abuse, 
share info on abuse cases, collaborate with other stakeholders (LEAs, CERTs, 
LIRs, RIPE Community), automate abuse handling/tools?
4) Understand what you can expect from other stakeholders related with 
abuse fighting
 Examples of stakeholders: LIRs/resources in all RIRs
5) Define a plan about what you, as an LIR, can do for yourself about 
handling abuse
 Examples: your reputation matters, what to do if you are the victim or 
facilitator of abuse?, automate abuse handling/tools?, What are the 
consequences of not handling abuses?


[anti-abuse-wg] What is YAHOONET?

2021-03-17 Thread Alessandro Vesely

Hi all,

I'm aware of the various pages that Wikipedia dedicate to Yahoo! and related 
services.  I'm unsure how to treat YAHOONET as an ISP.

The abuse contact they registered at RIPE in 2007 is ab...@yahoo-inc.com.  It 
bounces.  I wrote to network-ab...@cc.yahoo-inc.com asking what address should 
I use for complaints.  I got an automated reply telling me to go to:
https://io.help.yahoo.com/contact/index?page=contact&locale=en_US&y=PROD_MAIL_ML

That link ultimately redirects to the same host/path with the query string replaced by 
"page=oops".

I had tried to contact someone at Yahoo! before.  I don't think it's worth 
trying again.  So I think I'm going to put YAHOONET in the heavily firewalled 
list of ISPs with no abuse team.  I hesitated because I used to consider Yahoo! 
something big, with possibly many worthy customers.  Is it still so?  I mean, 
would any savvy netizen face the Internet through such an ISP?


Best
Ale
--