Re: Columnist Eric Margolis [WWW.STOPNATO.ORG.UK]
HTTP://WWW.STOPNATO.ORG.UK --- Dear Steve, I did not know that Eric Margolis is a vegan. If that's so, I commend him for that, but I still think he should stop writing nasty things about the Serbs. I just have the feeling that posting his articles on Antiwar.com gives people the false impression that he is a peacenik, since Antiwar.com is a site for anti-war activists. But in point of fact, he is not really anit war, or anti imperialist. As one other person on this list pointed out, he's only against war and imperialism against Muslims. Did somebody on this list say that he is a Muslim himself? If so, then of course he has a personal interest in not seeing his fellow Muslims attacked, but in my opinion, a true peace activist is against any war or imperialism against ANY ethnicity, as a matter of principle. Margolis seems to think that war and imperialism against Slavs is okay. Peacefully yours, Nancy Hey Stephen Gowans wrote: HTTP://WWW.STOPNATO.ORG.UK --- But Nancy, Margolis is a vegan! And he would never countenance the sending of chickens to Afghanistan. Still, you may be right. At the same time we prevail upon antiwar.com to blacklist Margolis, maybe we can get them to stop posting Pat Buchanan and Justin Raimondo. Surely there are people on the Left (and not Chomskyites, Trotskyites, social democrats, anarchists, world socialists, libertarian socialists, third-way Marxists, progressives and Blairites) who are making the same points on Afghanistan, Iraq, and so on. Better yet, maybe some of them are vegans. How about Alexander Cockburn? Or does he work for the CIA? Another idea: Being an unrepentant ovolacto vegetarian (yes, I do drink milk: mea culpa), I think my writing should be posted before any of those other guys. After all, who needs ideas, when you have the right political loyalties (and diet)? Steve - Original Message - From: Nancy Hey To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, March 26, 2002 10:15 PM Subject: Re: Columnist Eric Margolis [WWW.STOPNATO.ORG.UK] HTTP://WWW.STOPNATO.ORG.UK --- " Other people are making the same points he is on Afghanistan, Iraq and so forth; there's no need to provide this enemy of ours with more exposure and authority than his contacts in the intelligence community have already succeeded in doing. Respectfully, Rick " My sentiments exactly! How can we get Antiwar.com to see this point? peacefully yours, Nancy Hey mart-remote wrote: Well said Rick. Please, let's not give this bastard any more exposure than he already gets, or even the thinest veneer of credibilty. Margolis is a CIA-KLA terrorist who happens to use a typewriter to kill people. His words do not belong on this list. One slight correction. He is with the Toronto Sun, not the Toronto Star. mart == Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 22:25:32 -0800 (PST) From: Rick Rozoff <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: Cowboy Prez rides to rescue? - Columnist Eric Margolis [WWW.STOPNATO.ORG.UK] Dear Friends, For anyone not already acquainted with the fact, Eric Margolis is a Western disinformation agent who boasts, inter alia, of smuggling rockets into the Afghan mujahedin in the 1980s and possessing a host of intelligence contacts, including with the CIA. A quick Google search with the words "Eric Margolis socialism" will demonstrate with whom we're dealing. There is nothing remotely enlightened or progressive about this individual, notwithstanding the fact that his columns, from the very establishment Toronto Star where he is the official foreign correspondent, have been crossposted and linked on several US 'progressive' sites fairly regularly of late. In fact, the only time he criticizes Western militarism, aside from goading it into being more aggressive (e.g. "Stopping Europe's New Nazis" and "Serbia Needs Moral Cleansing"), is when one of his presumed co-religionists is under fire. As such he operates on a personal, and hardly political or principled, agenda. Other people are making the same points he is on Afghanistan, Iraq and so forth; there's no need to provide this enemy of ours with more exposure and authority than his contacts in the intelligence community have already succeeded in doing. Respectfully, Rick Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Movies - coverage of the 74th Academy Awards® --- ANTI-NATO INFORMATION LIST --- ANTI-NATO INFORMATION LIST --- ANTI-NATO INFORMATION LIST ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?a84x2u.a9617B Or send an email to: [EMAIL
Re: Columnist Eric Margolis [WWW.STOPNATO.ORG.UK]
HTTP://WWW.STOPNATO.ORG.UK --- I suggest it is time for these exchanges to stop. The problem with margolis is not how we may/ may not disagree with him, but his "official" contacts for whom he distributes disinformation. It's no coincidence he's based in Canada. --- Stephen Gowans <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > HTTP://WWW.STOPNATO.ORG.UK > --- > > But Nancy, Margolis is a vegan! And he would never > countenance the sending of chickens to Afghanistan. > > Still, you may be right. At the same time we prevail > upon antiwar.com to blacklist Margolis, maybe we can > get them to stop posting Pat Buchanan and Justin > Raimondo. Surely there are people on the Left (and > not Chomskyites, Trotskyites, social democrats, > anarchists, world socialists, libertarian > socialists, third-way Marxists, progressives and > Blairites) who are making the same points on > Afghanistan, Iraq, and so on. Better yet, maybe some > of them are vegans. How about Alexander Cockburn? Or > does he work for the CIA? > > Another idea: Being an unrepentant ovolacto > vegetarian (yes, I do drink milk: mea culpa), I > think my writing should be posted before any of > those other guys. After all, who needs ideas, when > you have the right political loyalties (and diet)? > > Steve > > - Original Message - > From: Nancy Hey > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Tuesday, March 26, 2002 10:15 PM > Subject: Re: Columnist Eric Margolis > [WWW.STOPNATO.ORG.UK] > > > HTTP://WWW.STOPNATO.ORG.UK > --- > " > Other people are making the same points he is on > Afghanistan, Iraq and so forth; there's no need to > > provide this enemy of ours with more exposure and > authority than his contacts in the intelligence > community have already succeeded in doing. > Respectfully, > Rick > " > My sentiments exactly! How can we get Antiwar.com > to see this point? > > peacefully yours, > Nancy Hey > > mart-remote wrote: > > Well said Rick. Please, let's not give this > bastard any more exposure than he already gets, or > even the thinest veneer of credibilty. Margolis is a > CIA-KLA terrorist who happens to use a typewriter to > kill people. His words do not belong on this list. > One slight correction. He is with the Toronto Sun, > not the Toronto Star. > > mart > > ========== > > > Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 22:25:32 -0800 (PST) > From: Rick Rozoff <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Subject: Re: Cowboy Prez rides to rescue? - > Columnist Eric Margolis > [WWW.STOPNATO.ORG.UK] > > > Dear Friends, > For anyone not already acquainted > with > the fact, Eric Margolis is a Western > disinformation > agent who boasts, inter alia, of smuggling > rockets > into the Afghan mujahedin in the 1980s and > possessing > a host of intelligence contacts, including with > the > CIA. > A quick Google search with the words "Eric > Margolis > socialism" will demonstrate with whom we're > dealing. > There is nothing remotely enlightened or > progressive > about this individual, notwithstanding the fact > that > his columns, from the very establishment Toronto > Star > where he is the official foreign correspondent, > have > been crossposted and linked on several US > 'progressive' sites fairly regularly of late. > In fact, the only time he criticizes Western > militarism, aside from goading it into being > more > aggressive (e.g. "Stopping Europe's New Nazis" > and > "Serbia Needs Moral Cleansing"), is when one of > his > presumed co-religionists is under fire. > As such he operates on a personal, and hardly > political or principled, agenda. > Other people are making the same points he is on > > Afghanistan, Iraq and so forth; there's no need > to > provide this enemy of ours with more exposure > and > authority than his contacts in the intelligence > community have already succeeded in doing. > Respectfully, > Rick > > > > > > Do You Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Movies - coverage of the 74th Academy > Awards® > ---
Re: Columnist Eric Margolis [WWW.STOPNATO.ORG.UK]
HTTP://WWW.STOPNATO.ORG.UK --- But Nancy, Margolis is a vegan! And he would never countenance the sending of chickens to Afghanistan. Still, you may be right. At the same time we prevail upon antiwar.com to blacklist Margolis, maybe we can get them to stop posting Pat Buchanan and Justin Raimondo. Surely there are people on the Left (and not Chomskyites, Trotskyites, social democrats, anarchists, world socialists, libertarian socialists, third-way Marxists, progressives and Blairites) who are making the same points on Afghanistan, Iraq, and so on. Better yet, maybe some of them are vegans. How about Alexander Cockburn? Or does he work for the CIA? Another idea: Being an unrepentant ovolacto vegetarian (yes, I do drink milk: mea culpa), I think my writing should be posted before any of those other guys. After all, who needs ideas, when you have the right political loyalties (and diet)? Steve - Original Message - From: Nancy Hey To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, March 26, 2002 10:15 PM Subject: Re: Columnist Eric Margolis [WWW.STOPNATO.ORG.UK] HTTP://WWW.STOPNATO.ORG.UK ---" Other people are making the same points he is on Afghanistan, Iraq and so forth; there's no need to provide this enemy of ours with more exposure and authority than his contacts in the intelligence community have already succeeded in doing. Respectfully, Rick " My sentiments exactly! How can we get Antiwar.com to see this point? peacefully yours, Nancy Hey mart-remote wrote: Well said Rick. Please, let's not give this bastard any more exposure than he already gets, or even the thinest veneer of credibilty. Margolis is a CIA-KLA terrorist who happens to use a typewriter to kill people. His words do not belong on this list. One slight correction. He is with the Toronto Sun, not the Toronto Star. mart == Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 22:25:32 -0800 (PST) From: Rick Rozoff <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: Cowboy Prez rides to rescue? - Columnist Eric Margolis [WWW.STOPNATO.ORG.UK] Dear Friends, For anyone not already acquainted with the fact, Eric Margolis is a Western disinformation agent who boasts, inter alia, of smuggling rockets into the Afghan mujahedin in the 1980s and possessing a host of intelligence contacts, including with the CIA. A quick Google search with the words "Eric Margolis socialism" will demonstrate with whom we're dealing. There is nothing remotely enlightened or progressive about this individual, notwithstanding the fact that his columns, from the very establishment Toronto Star where he is the official foreign correspondent, have been crossposted and linked on several US 'progressive' sites fairly regularly of late. In fact, the only time he criticizes Western militarism, aside from goading it into being more aggressive (e.g. "Stopping Europe's New Nazis" and "Serbia Needs Moral Cleansing"), is when one of his presumed co-religionists is under fire. As such he operates on a personal, and hardly political or principled, agenda. Other people are making the same points he is on Afghanistan, Iraq and so forth; there's no need to provide this enemy of ours with more exposure and authority than his contacts in the intelligence community have already succeeded in doing. Respectfully, Rick Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Movies - coverage of the 74th Academy Awards®--- ANTI-NATO INFORMATION LIST --- ANTI-NATO INFORMATION LIST ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?a84x2u.a9617B Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
Re: Columnist Eric Margolis [WWW.STOPNATO.ORG.UK]
HTTP://WWW.STOPNATO.ORG.UK --- " Other people are making the same points he is on Afghanistan, Iraq and so forth; there's no need to provide this enemy of ours with more exposure and authority than his contacts in the intelligence community have already succeeded in doing. Respectfully, Rick " My sentiments exactly! How can we get Antiwar.com to see this point? peacefully yours, Nancy Hey mart-remote wrote: Well said Rick. Please, let's not give this bastard any more exposure than he already gets, or even the thinest veneer of credibilty. Margolis is a CIA-KLA terrorist who happens to use a typewriter to kill people. His words do not belong on this list. One slight correction. He is with the Toronto Sun, not the Toronto Star. mart == Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 22:25:32 -0800 (PST) From: Rick Rozoff <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: Cowboy Prez rides to rescue? - Columnist Eric Margolis [WWW.STOPNATO.ORG.UK] Dear Friends, For anyone not already acquainted with the fact, Eric Margolis is a Western disinformation agent who boasts, inter alia, of smuggling rockets into the Afghan mujahedin in the 1980s and possessing a host of intelligence contacts, including with the CIA. A quick Google search with the words "Eric Margolis socialism" will demonstrate with whom we're dealing. There is nothing remotely enlightened or progressive about this individual, notwithstanding the fact that his columns, from the very establishment Toronto Star where he is the official foreign correspondent, have been crossposted and linked on several US 'progressive' sites fairly regularly of late. In fact, the only time he criticizes Western militarism, aside from goading it into being more aggressive (e.g. "Stopping Europe's New Nazis" and "Serbia Needs Moral Cleansing"), is when one of his presumed co-religionists is under fire. As such he operates on a personal, and hardly political or principled, agenda. Other people are making the same points he is on Afghanistan, Iraq and so forth; there's no need to provide this enemy of ours with more exposure and authority than his contacts in the intelligence community have already succeeded in doing. Respectfully, Rick Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Movies - coverage of the 74th Academy Awards® --- ANTI-NATO INFORMATION LIST ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?a84x2u.a9617B Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
Re: Cowboy Prez rides to rescue? - Columnist Eric Margolis [WWW.STOPNATO.ORG.UK]
HTTP://WWW.STOPNATO.ORG.UK --- David, But the whole thing is personal. Rick says, Don't read Margolis, because he has the wrong political loyalties, not because of what Margolis says on issue X. That's personal. And that's the issue. Should Rick have turned this into a personal matter? How far can you take this? The next time an article is posted by Scott Ritter should I send out a note reminding everyone that he's a Republican? What about Hans von Sponek? Does he have the right political loyalties? Or Ramsey Clark. Should we invite the anarchists to tell us that Clark's past casts his current political loyalties under a cloud, and that Workers World is really a front for the establishment, and therefore, we shouldn't read anything by Heather Cottin? I suppose they avoid her on their lists -- kind of like the Margolis of the anarchist's list. You're right. It shouldn't be personal. Steve - Original Message - From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Saturday, February 23, 2002 4:05 PM Subject: RE: Cowboy Prez rides to rescue? - Columnist Eric Margolis [WWW.STOPNATO.ORG.UK] > HTTP://WWW.STOPNATO.ORG.UK > --- > > > Stephen, > Granted, your point about Margolis is well taken. Yet, did you have to > turn this into a personal issue? > > David O.Q > > > > Stephen Gowans wrote: > > Rick, > > > > I've never read a single column written by Eric Margolis, and nor I have > > ever dipped into his book, (what is it called -- War at the Top of the > > World?), and that may be because, being Canadian, I'm more familiar with > > the > > Toronto Sun (Margolis's paper) than others are, and so I know what to > > expect. But if you keep going on about him, I swear I'll read him. > > > > You've created an impression, unintended I'm sure, which only those > > inclined > > to submit to intellectual bullying will tolerate: that only the > > incissive > > wit of the didactic Rick Rozoff can protect the dull and lumbering minds > > of > > the rest of us from being able to sort nonsense from truth, > > misinformation > > from untainted information. "No need to read Margolis. Rick's already > > done > > that for us. There are others, more worthy of reading, Rick says, who > > make > > the same points. What a handy guy Rick is to have around to do our > > thinking > > for us." > > > > Can one be blamed for expecting you'll next present a list of proscribed > > and > > prescribed journalists and columnists, followed by an enemies lists, > > comprised of names of people who have disagreed with you on some matter > > in > > the past, (but of course you'll do it in a courtly way, as is your wont, > > leaving the uttering of imprecations and name-calling to the snarling > > Mart, > > who has a penchant for that kind of thing)? > > > > Your importuning others not to post Margolis because it gives him > > credibility strikes me as nonsensical, and objectionable. Presumably, he > > was > > posted by whoever posted him because the poster liked Margolis's ideas > > on > > some topic, (and the post wasn't on the Balkans or socialism or Canada's > > health care system.) This blanket dismissing of people as agents of > > misinformation or for disagreeing with you on some other matter (the > > Balkans) and not for what they say on an ad rem matter amounts to > > nothing > > more than ad hominem argument, and is no different from dismissing > > others on > > grounds they're --- oh my gosh! -- communists, or anarchists, or > > authoritarian, or conspiracy theorists, or Wicans, or those crazy people > > fro > > m Emperor's Clothes. Maybe we can put everyone into boxes, and all carry > > on > > our discussions within our own ever shrinking, marginalized worlds, as > > we > > all descend into a paranoid lunacy about those who surround us being CIA > > operatives, agents of misinformation, and PsyOps specialists. Who is > > Margolis? ANTINATO's own Emanuel Goldstein, on whom we're to vent our > > two > > minutes of hate? > > > > Your intolerance, I fear, will only guarantee that what you can't > > tolerate > > prevails, like all those town fathers who thought they could protect > > young > > impressionable minds from the filth of Flaubert and Miller and Lawrence, > > or > > the subversiveness of Brecht, by urging librarians not to give "our > > enemies" credibility by car
RE: Columnist Eric Margolis [WWW.STOPNATO.ORG.UK]
HTTP://WWW.STOPNATO.ORG.UK --- For what it's worth - I appreciate his being posted since I don't get to see him otherwise. He is provocative - interesting. I don't dispute that he is full of it - but it isn't hard to compensate. Why not continue to put him on the list? If one restricts his input to only those with whom one agrees - one becomes an old fart. I even brought myself to watch Bushes state of the union message (Rumsfeld and Cheney on TV are more than I can stand) - Richard Knox -Original Message-From: mart-remote [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]Sent: 25 March, 2002 11:48 PMTo: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Rick RozoffSubject: Re: Columnist Eric Margolis [WWW.STOPNATO.ORG.UK] Well said Rick. Please, let's not give this bastard any more exposure than he already gets, or even the thinest veneer of credibilty. Margolis is a CIA-KLA terrorist who happens to use a typewriter to kill people. His words do not belong on this list. One slight correction. He is with the Toronto Sun, not the Toronto Star. mart == Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 22:25:32 -0800 (PST)From: Rick Rozoff <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>Subject: Re: Cowboy Prez rides to rescue? - Columnist Eric Margolis [WWW.STOPNATO.ORG.UK]Dear Friends, For anyone not already acquainted withthe fact, Eric Margolis is a Western disinformationagent who boasts, inter alia, of smuggling rocketsinto the Afghan mujahedin in the 1980s and possessinga host of intelligence contacts, including with theCIA.A quick Google search with the words "Eric Margolissocialism" will demonstrate with whom we're dealing.There is nothing remotely enlightened or progressiveabout this individual, notwithstanding the fact thathis columns, from the very establishment Toronto Starwhere he is the official foreign correspondent, havebeen crossposted and linked on several US'progressive' sites fairly regularly of late.In fact, the only time he criticizes Westernmilitarism, aside from goading it into being moreaggressive (e.g. "Stopping Europe's New Nazis" and"Serbia Needs Moral Cleansing"), is when one of hispresumed co-religionists is under fire.As such he operates on a personal, and hardlypolitical or principled, agenda.Other people are making the same points he is onAfghanistan, Iraq and so forth; there's no need toprovide this enemy of ours with more exposure andauthority than his contacts in the intelligencecommunity have already succeeded in doing.Respectfully,Rick Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Movies - coverage of the 74th Academy Awards® --- ANTI-NATO INFORMATION LIST ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?a84x2u.a9617B Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
RE: Cowboy Prez rides to rescue? - Columnist Eric Margolis [WWW.STOPNATO.ORG.UK]
HTTP://WWW.STOPNATO.ORG.UK --- Stephen, Granted, your point about Margolis is well taken. Yet, did you have to turn this into a personal issue? David O.Q Stephen Gowans wrote: > Rick, > > I've never read a single column written by Eric Margolis, and nor I have > ever dipped into his book, (what is it called -- War at the Top of the > World?), and that may be because, being Canadian, I'm more familiar with > the > Toronto Sun (Margolis's paper) than others are, and so I know what to > expect. But if you keep going on about him, I swear I'll read him. > > You've created an impression, unintended I'm sure, which only those > inclined > to submit to intellectual bullying will tolerate: that only the > incissive > wit of the didactic Rick Rozoff can protect the dull and lumbering minds > of > the rest of us from being able to sort nonsense from truth, > misinformation > from untainted information. "No need to read Margolis. Rick's already > done > that for us. There are others, more worthy of reading, Rick says, who > make > the same points. What a handy guy Rick is to have around to do our > thinking > for us." > > Can one be blamed for expecting you'll next present a list of proscribed > and > prescribed journalists and columnists, followed by an enemies lists, > comprised of names of people who have disagreed with you on some matter > in > the past, (but of course you'll do it in a courtly way, as is your wont, > leaving the uttering of imprecations and name-calling to the snarling > Mart, > who has a penchant for that kind of thing)? > > Your importuning others not to post Margolis because it gives him > credibility strikes me as nonsensical, and objectionable. Presumably, he > was > posted by whoever posted him because the poster liked Margolis's ideas > on > some topic, (and the post wasn't on the Balkans or socialism or Canada's > health care system.) This blanket dismissing of people as agents of > misinformation or for disagreeing with you on some other matter (the > Balkans) and not for what they say on an ad rem matter amounts to > nothing > more than ad hominem argument, and is no different from dismissing > others on > grounds they're --- oh my gosh! -- communists, or anarchists, or > authoritarian, or conspiracy theorists, or Wicans, or those crazy people > fro > m Emperor's Clothes. Maybe we can put everyone into boxes, and all carry > on > our discussions within our own ever shrinking, marginalized worlds, as > we > all descend into a paranoid lunacy about those who surround us being CIA > operatives, agents of misinformation, and PsyOps specialists. Who is > Margolis? ANTINATO's own Emanuel Goldstein, on whom we're to vent our > two > minutes of hate? > > Your intolerance, I fear, will only guarantee that what you can't > tolerate > prevails, like all those town fathers who thought they could protect > young > impressionable minds from the filth of Flaubert and Miller and Lawrence, > or > the subversiveness of Brecht, by urging librarians not to give "our > enemies" credibility by carrying their books. > > Steve > - Original Message - > From: Rick Rozoff <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent: Tuesday, March 26, 2002 1:25 AM > Subject: Re: Cowboy Prez rides to rescue? - Columnist Eric Margolis > [WWW.STOPNATO.ORG.UK] > > > > HTTP://WWW.STOPNATO.ORG.UK > > --- > > > > Dear Friends, > > For anyone not already acquainted with > > the fact, Eric Margolis is a Western disinformation > > agent who boasts, inter alia, of smuggling rockets > > into the Afghan mujahedin in the 1980s and possessing > > a host of intelligence contacts, including with the > > CIA. > > A quick Google search with the words "Eric Margolis > > socialism" will demonstrate with whom we're dealing. > > There is nothing remotely enlightened or progressive > > about this individual, notwithstanding the fact that > > his columns, from the very establishment Toronto Star > > where he is the official foreign correspondent, have > > been crossposted and linked on several US > > 'progressive' sites fairly regularly of late. > > In fact, the only time he criticizes Western > > militarism, aside from goading it into being more > > aggressive (e.g. "Stopping Europe's New Nazis" and > > "Serbia Needs Moral Cleansing"), is when one of his > > presumed co-religionists is under fire. > &g
Re: Cowboy Prez rides to rescue? - Columnist Eric Margolis[WWW.STOPNATO.ORG.UK
HTTP://WWW.STOPNATO.ORG.UK --- Steve, First, allow me to start on a positive note by applauding and commending you on your many excellent articles, all of which I have enjoyed immensely. Secondly, while I agree with you that no one should arrogate to themselves the 'right' to dictate another person's reading list, I didn't take Rick's note to be an edict banning Margolis' tripe but rather more as one friend telling another, "Don't blow yer bucks on 'Black Hawk Down'; it's just another masturbatory product of Hollywood PC". Having read, and become infuriated by, many of Margolis' outpourings of bile, that was the way in which I took Rick's 'advisory'. I hardly ever read any of Margolis' tripe anymore, being now fully acquainted with his bias and slant. Much in the manner of the ever voluble Thos. (McDonald's wouldn't exist but for McDonnel-Douglas) Friedman, if I read any of his screed, it is purely to obtain a view of what passes as the 'establishment view' at any given point. Cossack - Original Message - From: "Stephen Gowans" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Tuesday, March 26, 2002 11:17 Subject: Re: Cowboy Prez rides to rescue? - Columnist Eric Margolis [WWW.STOPNATO.ORG.UK] HTTP://WWW.STOPNATO.ORG.UK---Rick,I've never read a single column written by Eric Margolis, and nor I haveever dipped into his book, (what is it called -- War at the Top of theWorld?), and that may be because, being Canadian, I'm more familiar with theToronto Sun (Margolis's paper) than others are, and so I know what toexpect. But if you keep going on about him, I swear I'll read him.You've created an impression, unintended I'm sure, which only those inclinedto submit to intellectual bullying will tolerate: that only the incissivewit of the didactic Rick Rozoff can protect the dull and lumbering minds ofthe rest of us from being able to sort nonsense from truth, misinformationfrom untainted information. "No need to read Margolis. Rick's already donethat for us. There are others, more worthy of reading, Rick says, who makethe same points. What a handy guy Rick is to have around to do our thinkingfor us."Can one be blamed for expecting you'll next present a list of proscribed andprescribed journalists and columnists, followed by an enemies lists,comprised of names of people who have disagreed with you on some matter inthe past, (but of course you'll do it in a courtly way, as is your wont,leaving the uttering of imprecations and name-calling to the snarling Mart,who has a penchant for that kind of thing)?Your importuning others not to post Margolis because it gives himcredibility strikes me as nonsensical, and objectionable. Presumably, he wasposted by whoever posted him because the poster liked Margolis's ideas onsome topic, (and the post wasn't on the Balkans or socialism or Canada'shealth care system.) This blanket dismissing of people as agents ofmisinformation or for disagreeing with you on some other matter (theBalkans) and not for what they say on an ad rem matter amounts to nothingmore than ad hominem argument, and is no different from dismissing others ongrounds they're --- oh my gosh! -- communists, or anarchists, orauthoritarian, or conspiracy theorists, or Wicans, or those crazy people from Emperor's Clothes. Maybe we can put everyone into boxes, and all carry onour discussions within our own ever shrinking, marginalized worlds, as weall descend into a paranoid lunacy about those who surround us being CIAoperatives, agents of misinformation, and PsyOps specialists. Who isMargolis? ANTINATO's own Emanuel Goldstein, on whom we're to vent our twominutes of hate?Your intolerance, I fear, will only guarantee that what you can't tolerateprevails, like all those town fathers who thought they could protect youngimpressionable minds from the filth of Flaubert and Miller and Lawrence, orthe subversiveness of Brecht, by urging librarians not to give "ourenemies" credibility by carrying their books.Steve- Original Message -From: Rick Rozoff <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>Sent: Tuesday, March 26, 2002 1:25 AMSubject: Re: Cowboy Prez rides to rescue? - Columnist Eric Margolis[WWW.STOPNATO.ORG.UK]> HTTP://WWW.STOPNATO.ORG.UK> --->> Dear Friends,> For anyone not already acquainted with> the fact, Eric Margolis is a Western disinformation> agent who boasts, inter alia, of smuggling rockets> into the Afghan mujahedin in the 1980s and possessing> a host of intelligence contacts, including with the> CIA.> A quick Google search with the words "Eric Margoli
Re: Cowboy Prez rides to rescue? - Columnist Eric Margolis [WWW.STOPNATO.ORG.UK]
HTTP://WWW.STOPNATO.ORG.UK --- Rick, I've never read a single column written by Eric Margolis, and nor I have ever dipped into his book, (what is it called -- War at the Top of the World?), and that may be because, being Canadian, I'm more familiar with the Toronto Sun (Margolis's paper) than others are, and so I know what to expect. But if you keep going on about him, I swear I'll read him. You've created an impression, unintended I'm sure, which only those inclined to submit to intellectual bullying will tolerate: that only the incissive wit of the didactic Rick Rozoff can protect the dull and lumbering minds of the rest of us from being able to sort nonsense from truth, misinformation from untainted information. "No need to read Margolis. Rick's already done that for us. There are others, more worthy of reading, Rick says, who make the same points. What a handy guy Rick is to have around to do our thinking for us." Can one be blamed for expecting you'll next present a list of proscribed and prescribed journalists and columnists, followed by an enemies lists, comprised of names of people who have disagreed with you on some matter in the past, (but of course you'll do it in a courtly way, as is your wont, leaving the uttering of imprecations and name-calling to the snarling Mart, who has a penchant for that kind of thing)? Your importuning others not to post Margolis because it gives him credibility strikes me as nonsensical, and objectionable. Presumably, he was posted by whoever posted him because the poster liked Margolis's ideas on some topic, (and the post wasn't on the Balkans or socialism or Canada's health care system.) This blanket dismissing of people as agents of misinformation or for disagreeing with you on some other matter (the Balkans) and not for what they say on an ad rem matter amounts to nothing more than ad hominem argument, and is no different from dismissing others on grounds they're --- oh my gosh! -- communists, or anarchists, or authoritarian, or conspiracy theorists, or Wicans, or those crazy people fro m Emperor's Clothes. Maybe we can put everyone into boxes, and all carry on our discussions within our own ever shrinking, marginalized worlds, as we all descend into a paranoid lunacy about those who surround us being CIA operatives, agents of misinformation, and PsyOps specialists. Who is Margolis? ANTINATO's own Emanuel Goldstein, on whom we're to vent our two minutes of hate? Your intolerance, I fear, will only guarantee that what you can't tolerate prevails, like all those town fathers who thought they could protect young impressionable minds from the filth of Flaubert and Miller and Lawrence, or the subversiveness of Brecht, by urging librarians not to give "our enemies" credibility by carrying their books. Steve - Original Message - From: Rick Rozoff <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Tuesday, March 26, 2002 1:25 AM Subject: Re: Cowboy Prez rides to rescue? - Columnist Eric Margolis [WWW.STOPNATO.ORG.UK] > HTTP://WWW.STOPNATO.ORG.UK > --- > > Dear Friends, > For anyone not already acquainted with > the fact, Eric Margolis is a Western disinformation > agent who boasts, inter alia, of smuggling rockets > into the Afghan mujahedin in the 1980s and possessing > a host of intelligence contacts, including with the > CIA. > A quick Google search with the words "Eric Margolis > socialism" will demonstrate with whom we're dealing. > There is nothing remotely enlightened or progressive > about this individual, notwithstanding the fact that > his columns, from the very establishment Toronto Star > where he is the official foreign correspondent, have > been crossposted and linked on several US > 'progressive' sites fairly regularly of late. > In fact, the only time he criticizes Western > militarism, aside from goading it into being more > aggressive (e.g. "Stopping Europe's New Nazis" and > "Serbia Needs Moral Cleansing"), is when one of his > presumed co-religionists is under fire. > As such he operates on a personal, and hardly > political or principled, agenda. > Other people are making the same points he is on > Afghanistan, Iraq and so forth; there's no need to > provide this enemy of ours with more exposure and > authority than his contacts in the intelligence > community have already succeeded in doing. > Respectfully, > Rick > > > > > > > > > --- Nicholas Camerota <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: > > > > HREF="HTTP://WWW.STOPNATO.ORG.UK";>HTTP://WWW.STOPNATO.ORG.UK > --- > > Toronto > Sun March 24, 2002 > Co
Re: Columnist Eric Margolis [WWW.STOPNATO.ORG.UK]
Well said Rick. Please, let's not give this bastard any more exposure than he already gets, or even the thinest veneer of credibilty. Margolis is a CIA-KLA terrorist who happens to use a typewriter to kill people. His words do not belong on this list. One slight correction. He is with the Toronto Sun, not the Toronto Star. mart == Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 22:25:32 -0800 (PST)From: Rick Rozoff <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>Subject: Re: Cowboy Prez rides to rescue? - Columnist Eric Margolis [WWW.STOPNATO.ORG.UK]Dear Friends, For anyone not already acquainted withthe fact, Eric Margolis is a Western disinformationagent who boasts, inter alia, of smuggling rocketsinto the Afghan mujahedin in the 1980s and possessinga host of intelligence contacts, including with theCIA.A quick Google search with the words "Eric Margolissocialism" will demonstrate with whom we're dealing.There is nothing remotely enlightened or progressiveabout this individual, notwithstanding the fact thathis columns, from the very establishment Toronto Starwhere he is the official foreign correspondent, havebeen crossposted and linked on several US'progressive' sites fairly regularly of late.In fact, the only time he criticizes Westernmilitarism, aside from goading it into being moreaggressive (e.g. "Stopping Europe's New Nazis" and"Serbia Needs Moral Cleansing"), is when one of hispresumed co-religionists is under fire.As such he operates on a personal, and hardlypolitical or principled, agenda.Other people are making the same points he is onAfghanistan, Iraq and so forth; there's no need toprovide this enemy of ours with more exposure andauthority than his contacts in the intelligencecommunity have already succeeded in doing.Respectfully,RickDo You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Movies - coverage of the 74th Academy Awards®
Re: Cowboy Prez rides to rescue? - Columnist Eric Margolis [WWW.STOPNATO.ORG.UK]
HTTP://WWW.STOPNATO.ORG.UK --- Dear Friends, For anyone not already acquainted with the fact, Eric Margolis is a Western disinformation agent who boasts, inter alia, of smuggling rockets into the Afghan mujahedin in the 1980s and possessing a host of intelligence contacts, including with the CIA. A quick Google search with the words "Eric Margolis socialism" will demonstrate with whom we're dealing. There is nothing remotely enlightened or progressive about this individual, notwithstanding the fact that his columns, from the very establishment Toronto Star where he is the official foreign correspondent, have been crossposted and linked on several US 'progressive' sites fairly regularly of late. In fact, the only time he criticizes Western militarism, aside from goading it into being more aggressive (e.g. "Stopping Europe's New Nazis" and "Serbia Needs Moral Cleansing"), is when one of his presumed co-religionists is under fire. As such he operates on a personal, and hardly political or principled, agenda. Other people are making the same points he is on Afghanistan, Iraq and so forth; there's no need to provide this enemy of ours with more exposure and authority than his contacts in the intelligence community have already succeeded in doing. Respectfully, Rick --- Nicholas Camerota <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: HTTP://WWW.STOPNATO.ORG.UK";>HTTP://WWW.STOPNATO.ORG.UK --- Toronto Sun March 24, 2002 Cowboy president rides to the rescue By ERIC MARGOLIS -- Contributing Foreign Editor A powerful car bomb explosion on Thursday near the U.S. Embassy in Lima, killing nine and wounding 30, was a disturbing prelude to the visit to Peru this weekend of President George Bush, who has vowed to "fight terrorism around the world." Bush declared he wouldn't be put off by "two-bit terrorists." But the suspected bombers, the notorious Sendero Luminoso, or Shining Path, are anything but "two-bit" terrorists. The Sendero has battled fiercely for three decades to impose a Marxist dictatorship on Peru patterned on Enver Hoxha's crazy Stalinist Albania and Pol Pot's nightmare Cambodia. Back in 1985, I was the first North American journalist to interview Peru's then newly elected president, Alan Garcia. I asked him how his government was coping with the Sendero Luminoso, whose guerrillas were terrorizing the Andes, waging urban guerrilla warfare, and had almost brought the government to its knees. "I can assure you," Garcia said, "the security situation is completely under control." Moments later, two mortar shells exploded outside the presidential palace. Garcia shrugged and gave a sheepish smile. Peru's last president, the tough authoritarian Alberto Fujimori, now in exile in Japan and plotting a return, had nearly crushed the Sendero and another dangerous Marxist guerrilla group, the pro-Cuban Tupac Amaru. But after Fujimori was replaced by the softer, more leftward leaning Alejandro Toledo, Sendero regrouped and appears to be renewing its war against the U.S.-backed government in Lima. This time, the Sendero is being fuelled by a steady inflow of drug money. Following the example of Colombia's Marxist FARC and ELN narco-guerrilla armies, the Sendero earns tens of millions annually protecting Peru's expanding cocaine industry. The Bush administration's efforts to combat the drug trade in Colombia through spraying toxic pesticides and attacking processing labs have merely pushed the underground drug industry across the jungled borders into Ecuador and Peru. TOTAL FAILURE The much-vaunted U.S. war on drugs has proven a total failure in Latin America. The flow of cocaine and heroin into the U.S. has not been reduced, in spite of billions spent to block the flood of narcotics. Ironically, the only nation where the U.S. war on drugs did work was in Afghanistan - thanks to its former Taliban regime. According to the UN drug control agency, the Taliban virtually halted cultivation and trade of heroin-producing opium poppies. Afghanistan supplied 80% of Europe's heroin and about 60% of America's. The American invasion and overthrow of the Taliban handed power to the Russian-backed Northern Alliance, which fully revived the heroin trade and now controls 90% of drug exports. In Afghanistan, Bush's so-called war against terrorism collided head-on with his war against drugs. The latter lost. The Northern Alliance, the real power behind the U.S.-installed Karzai regime in Kabul, pays its fighters and buys its arms from the Russians with heroin money. The U.S. simply turned a blind eye to large-scale drug dealing by its new Afghan allies, just as it did in South Vietnam, Cambodia, Laos, Central America and, for years, Mexico. The White House is now under increasing pressure to increase the $1 billion in U.S. aid to Colombia and switch from assisting a campaign against coca producers to all-out combat operations against FARC and ELN guerrillas. The C
Cowboy Prez rides to rescue? - Columnist Eric Margolis [WWW.STOPNATO.ORG.UK]
HTTP://WWW.STOPNATO.ORG.UK --- Toronto Sun March 24, 2002 Cowboy president rides to the rescue By ERIC MARGOLIS -- Contributing Foreign Editor A powerful car bomb explosion on Thursday near the U.S. Embassy in Lima, killing nine and wounding 30, was a disturbing prelude to the visit to Peru this weekend of President George Bush, who has vowed to "fight terrorism around the world." Bush declared he wouldn't be put off by "two-bit terrorists." But the suspected bombers, the notorious Sendero Luminoso, or Shining Path, are anything but "two-bit" terrorists. The Sendero has battled fiercely for three decades to impose a Marxist dictatorship on Peru patterned on Enver Hoxha's crazy Stalinist Albania and Pol Pot's nightmare Cambodia. Back in 1985, I was the first North American journalist to interview Peru's then newly elected president, Alan Garcia. I asked him how his government was coping with the Sendero Luminoso, whose guerrillas were terrorizing the Andes, waging urban guerrilla warfare, and had almost brought the government to its knees. "I can assure you," Garcia said, "the security situation is completely under control." Moments later, two mortar shells exploded outside the presidential palace. Garcia shrugged and gave a sheepish smile. Peru's last president, the tough authoritarian Alberto Fujimori, now in exile in Japan and plotting a return, had nearly crushed the Sendero and another dangerous Marxist guerrilla group, the pro-Cuban Tupac Amaru. But after Fujimori was replaced by the softer, more leftward leaning Alejandro Toledo, Sendero regrouped and appears to be renewing its war against the U.S.-backed government in Lima. This time, the Sendero is being fuelled by a steady inflow of drug money. Following the example of Colombia's Marxist FARC and ELN narco-guerrilla armies, the Sendero earns tens of millions annually protecting Peru's expanding cocaine industry. The Bush administration's efforts to combat the drug trade in Colombia through spraying toxic pesticides and attacking processing labs have merely pushed the underground drug industry across the jungled borders into Ecuador and Peru. TOTAL FAILURE The much-vaunted U.S. war on drugs has proven a total failure in Latin America. The flow of cocaine and heroin into the U.S. has not been reduced, in spite of billions spent to block the flood of narcotics. Ironically, the only nation where the U.S. war on drugs did work was in Afghanistan - thanks to its former Taliban regime. According to the UN drug control agency, the Taliban virtually halted cultivation and trade of heroin-producing opium poppies. Afghanistan supplied 80% of Europe's heroin and about 60% of America's. The American invasion and overthrow of the Taliban handed power to the Russian-backed Northern Alliance, which fully revived the heroin trade and now controls 90% of drug exports. In Afghanistan, Bush's so-called war against terrorism collided head-on with his war against drugs. The latter lost. The Northern Alliance, the real power behind the U.S.-installed Karzai regime in Kabul, pays its fighters and buys its arms from the Russians with heroin money. The U.S. simply turned a blind eye to large-scale drug dealing by its new Afghan allies, just as it did in South Vietnam, Cambodia, Laos, Central America and, for years, Mexico. The White House is now under increasing pressure to increase the $1 billion in U.S. aid to Colombia and switch from assisting a campaign against coca producers to all-out combat operations against FARC and ELN guerrillas. The Colombian government's inept 136,000-man army has been unable to defeat the FARC's and ELF's roughly 20,000 Marxist guerrillas, so the U.S. is now being asked by Bogota for combat troops and fleets of helicopters. An expanded war in Colombia would quickly spill over into Ecuador, Peru and possibly into Panama and Venezuela, all economically stressed and politically shaky nations. Growing instability and violence in northern Latin America will challenge the Bush administration's plans to launch a large crusade against Iraq, and smaller ones against the diverse Muslim groups opposed to American influence, or those fighting for independence from oppressive rule - all simplistically lumped together by Bush as "terrorists." Just two weeks ago in Afghanistan, the U.S. lost eight soldiers and dropped 3,300 expensive precision bombs against will-o-the-wisp opponents in a failed battle in the Shah-i-Kot Valley (shades of Vietnam's IaDrang Valley battles). America's arsenals are depleted; its military forces stretched thin - and the crusade against the nefarious "axis of evil" hasn't even been launched yet. The 19th century American cynic, Ambrose Bierce, observed that Americans learn their geography from wars. Six months before becoming president, George Bush couldn't name the leader of Pakistan - whom he today hails as a champion of democracy and America's new best friend. This weekend,
