Re: [AOLSERVER] nssqlite3 troubles
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > >> The select proc is only in the pg driver in order to support some >> ancient >> AOLserver 2 functionality that I doubt anyone else uses any more. > > Then should it be removed? (in someone's copious free time...) Only issue would be legacy sites that may use it. Of course, they could continue with their existing version of the driver, and they likely don't exist anyway? > >> It shouldn't appear in your sqllite3 driver, IMO. > > Could you expand on this? Aren't any legacy AOL2 SQLLite sites, I imagine :) SQLLite's not that ancient, is it > You've got way more experience with the db > drivers than I do so I'm inclined to take your advice, but I'm curious > why you think a unified exec is better than separate select/dml/generic > functions. I haven't looked at the oracle db driver forever, but obviously the PG one doesn't differentiate between the two. You call PQExec or whatever it's called, and the library tells you what kind of query it executed. > Aside from that, do you also think the generic function should be > preferred over the specific function if both are defined? Let's put it this way - I know of no problems that have arisen from it being this way. OK, took a teensy bit of cleverness to get the SQLLite3 driver to work right for selects that return no rows, but not much. > Yes, everyone should check their inputs to avoid this, but things > sometimes slip through. Executing a query from an external source isn't simply a matter of "checking your inputs", it's more like checking your brain into the asylum. It's just not in the same class as smuggling in an AND clause due to someone not checking that an integer's an integer or the like. Your select statements should say SELECT, and once you do that, no DROP or DELETE is going to happen no matter what someone does to attempt to smuggle in SQL. > One of my few gripes about the ns_db interface is that you can only pass > raw sql instead of being able to use bind variables. Check out the bindvar emulation for the pg driver in OpenACS mode. It puts a dead stop to sql smuggling because it quotes the values. WHERE foo = :var becomes WHERE foo = '123' which, in PG, works as well as an unquoted 123. But if var is something like "123 or 't'" you get WHERE foo = '123 or ''t''' which is not what was hoped for by the bad guy. -- AOLserver - http://www.aolserver.com/ To Remove yourself from this list, simply send an email to <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> with the body of "SIGNOFF AOLSERVER" in the email message. You can leave the Subject: field of your email blank.
Re: [AOLSERVER] nssqlite3 troubles
> Using sqlite3_column_name could be a > better approach for DbBindRow also, rather than relying on the per-row > callback being called. Although it may not matter much - does anyone > care about what columns are returned if there are no rows? Well, should be faster, since the column names are invariant for any given rowset, i.e. you only have to compute them once, rather than recompute them for each row. -- AOLserver - http://www.aolserver.com/ To Remove yourself from this list, simply send an email to <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> with the body of "SIGNOFF AOLSERVER" in the email message. You can leave the Subject: field of your email blank.
Re: [AOLSERVER] nssqlite3 troubles
> And then there's nsdb - I think the more specific selectProc should be > tried first for select operations, but since it's been this way for a > while, would changing this break some other drivers (where the > selectProc has never been called, or tested)? The postgres driver is at > least aware of this judging by a comment that the select function is > never called by the server, but how would the other drivers fare? The select proc is only in the pg driver in order to support some ancient AOLserver 2 functionality that I doubt anyone else uses any more. It shouldn't appear in your sqllite3 driver, IMO. I suggest you implement stephen deasy's straightforward check that differentiates between queries that return rows (i.e. SELECT queries but usig SQL Lite's parser) to differentiate between NS_ROWS and NS_DML queries. As far as security goes, no one should allow for the direct execution of external SQL anyway, not even a SELECT. If someone's code breaks because they execute a "DROP TABLE" statement sent to their site via a query string or whatever, there's not much reason to have sympathy for them. -- AOLserver - http://www.aolserver.com/ To Remove yourself from this list, simply send an email to <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> with the body of "SIGNOFF AOLSERVER" in the email message. You can leave the Subject: field of your email blank.
Re: [AOLSERVER] configured minthreads, maxthreads doesnt show up with [ns_server threads] command
> We actually also tried a similar process a few years ago, but it failed > due > to various conflicts and general lack of interest. Would be great to get > something like that going again. Well, as I said in that note, I think the community's too small warrant the formalism. But the principle of transparency is key (and if you think flames here in that regard are bad, you should visit some of the threads from about four years ago in our community when some folks felt that transparency wasn't being properly respected. I'm lucky to be alive. Ever have a 20-yr old university student from Cyprus angry at you? -- AOLserver - http://www.aolserver.com/ To Remove yourself from this list, simply send an email to <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> with the body of "SIGNOFF AOLSERVER" in the email message. You can leave the Subject: field of your email blank.
Re: [AOLSERVER] aolserver focus
> more likely we were just lazy or > distracted To paraphrase a famous saying, never attribute to malice what can be attributed to laziness :) (those who know me in the OpenACS project have some idea as to how lazy I am) > -- Is tightly woven with Tcl which appears less and less popular each > year (I could be wrong) No, you're right, though it has to do with the unpopularity of Tcl rather than the principle of coupling, mostly, I think. -- AOLserver - http://www.aolserver.com/ To Remove yourself from this list, simply send an email to <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> with the body of "SIGNOFF AOLSERVER" in the email message. You can leave the Subject: field of your email blank.
Re: [AOLSERVER] configured minthreads, maxthreads doesnt show up with [ns_server threads] command
> The reason why I reach out to organizations privately is because some of > them are building commercial products on top of AOLserver and may not be > comfortable discussing their needs in a public forum. Well, the way we handle such situations in the openacs community is that changes go through an approval process which we've copied from the Tcl crew. So these things CAN'T happen in private. The motivation - or the identity of a paying customer - can be kept private, of course, but changes in core code that changes functionality must be approved by core developers in a PUBLIC PROCESS. The developer community around AOLserver is small, so informality's fine IMO, but transparency is crucial. And BTW, I recognize that you've communicated with the OpenACS community as well as various companies, and that's a good thing. > Don, what would you change to improve things? Of those suggestions, > which could you personally do to help the project? Unfortunately my volunteer time is still allocated to OpenACS, so I can't really offer to help on a sustained basis, though I did drop in and implement virtual server awareness in ns_cache back when virtual servers were put in. -- AOLserver - http://www.aolserver.com/ To Remove yourself from this list, simply send an email to <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> with the body of "SIGNOFF AOLSERVER" in the email message. You can leave the Subject: field of your email blank.
Re: [AOLSERVER] configured minthreads, maxthreads doesnt show up with [ns_server threads] command
> Personally I think the proper resolution here is for the AOL team to admit > that this is a private project where they retain the right to do anything > with the public open source code. Dossy no longer works for AOL, so I think the group is more like "those who've been contributing in the recent past". Though I guess the other two do work for AOL? Which doesn't include me, I admit. Though I did maintain the postgres driver for years, by myself, and helped out with the oracle driver, and more recently made ns_cache virtual server aware. However I'm in no way a key contributor in the sense Dossy et al are. Honestly, Tom, I don't think it's an intentional cabal, more of an oversight, the kind of oversight that isn't that uncommon when a group of folks work closely together. They're not the first to forget there's a community using the code, nor to forget that community interests and their interests might not be congruent. Or perhaps simply to forget to communicate. -- AOLserver - http://www.aolserver.com/ To Remove yourself from this list, simply send an email to <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> with the body of "SIGNOFF AOLSERVER" in the email message. You can leave the Subject: field of your email blank.
Re: [AOLSERVER] configured minthreads, maxthreads doesnt show up with [ns_server threads] command
> I made a mistake. Can we move on, now? IMO, sure. -- AOLserver - http://www.aolserver.com/ To Remove yourself from this list, simply send an email to <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> with the body of "SIGNOFF AOLSERVER" in the email message. You can leave the Subject: field of your email blank.
Re: [AOLSERVER] configured minthreads, maxthreads doesnt show up with [ns_server threads] command
> I'm someone who can, and will, remove your subscription from this list. Oh, that will earn you brownie points. -- AOLserver - http://www.aolserver.com/ To Remove yourself from this list, simply send an email to <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> with the body of "SIGNOFF AOLSERVER" in the email message. You can leave the Subject: field of your email blank.
Re: [AOLSERVER] configured minthreads, maxthreads doesnt show up with [ns_server threads] command
> I'm someone who can, and will, remove your subscription from this list. Thank you for making clear, absolutely clear, that AOLserver is not a community-based open source project. You're doing everyone a favor. -- AOLserver - http://www.aolserver.com/ To Remove yourself from this list, simply send an email to <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> with the body of "SIGNOFF AOLSERVER" in the email message. You can leave the Subject: field of your email blank.
Re: [AOLSERVER] configured minthreads, maxthreads doesnt show up with [ns_server threads] command
> On Aug 3, 2007, at 9:39 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > >>> Please watch the vulgar language - there's simply no need for it. >> >> And precisely who are you to say so? > > A member of the community. I'll repeat what he said: please stop > swearing at and insulting people. Tom Jackson swore. I used the phrase "I f* up", which in my part of the world, at least, isn't considered "swearing" nor "vulgar". I was simply suggesting Dossy admit he made a mistake, and move on. > And from my point of view, all the people > who are being so completely rude have not done nearly as much for > aolserver as the people on the other end of it. True, though I suspect that people using my project represent the majority of people using AOLserver. -- AOLserver - http://www.aolserver.com/ To Remove yourself from this list, simply send an email to <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> with the body of "SIGNOFF AOLSERVER" in the email message. You can leave the Subject: field of your email blank.
Re: [AOLSERVER] configured minthreads, maxthreads doesnt show up with [ns_server threads] command
> Please watch the vulgar language - there's simply no need for it. Thanks! To follow up on my last post, from here it looks like another unilateral decision without community input. -- AOLserver - http://www.aolserver.com/ To Remove yourself from this list, simply send an email to <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> with the body of "SIGNOFF AOLSERVER" in the email message. You can leave the Subject: field of your email blank.
Re: [AOLSERVER] configured minthreads, maxthreads doesnt show up with [ns_server threads] command
> Please watch the vulgar language - there's simply no need for it. And precisely who are you to say so? -- AOLserver - http://www.aolserver.com/ To Remove yourself from this list, simply send an email to <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> with the body of "SIGNOFF AOLSERVER" in the email message. You can leave the Subject: field of your email blank.
Re: [AOLSERVER] configured minthreads, maxthreads doesnt show up with [ns_server threads] command
> On 2007.08.02, Tom Jackson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >Should I step down as project > leader and let someone else take over? The irony is that the title > really doesn't mean much at all. I suspect that you simply don't understand what it means in the context of a community-based open source project. It doesn't mean that you arbitrarily make decisions quietly and then go implement them without discussion with the community. Please share with us YOUR definition! > So, in the spirit of open source software meritocracies: please place > your money where your mouth is. Come up with a list of actionable > changes you'd make if you were king. Lets hear it--and if everyone > agrees to a particular change, we'll declare it made. (Note: declaring > anything to a volunteer-driven organization doesn't guarantee that > anyone will actually do it.) The graceful thing to do would be to say "I fucked up, sorry, there was no malice on my end, it was a simple mistake and I take responsibility for not communicating my ideas to the community before implementing them. Let's move on!" But your use of the word "king" makes me think you don't really quite understand the role, unless you're thinking of a king working in a parliamentary government. -- AOLserver - http://www.aolserver.com/ To Remove yourself from this list, simply send an email to <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> with the body of "SIGNOFF AOLSERVER" in the email message. You can leave the Subject: field of your email blank.
Re: [AOLSERVER] configured minthreads, maxthreads doesnt show up with [ns_server threads] command
> AOLserver is going to become even easier to set up and configure. Yeah, right... -- AOLserver - http://www.aolserver.com/ To Remove yourself from this list, simply send an email to <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> with the body of "SIGNOFF AOLSERVER" in the email message. You can leave the Subject: field of your email blank.
Re: [AOLSERVER] configured minthreads, maxthreads doesnt show up with [ns_server threads] command
> There was a lot of discussion internally about whether or not to support > virtual servers going forward. The main impetus was to try and further > simplify the code base as much as possible. You could always take out all serving, that would really simplify it. Nice community-oriented project y'all got going here. Glad I'm a member. -- AOLserver - http://www.aolserver.com/ To Remove yourself from this list, simply send an email to <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> with the body of "SIGNOFF AOLSERVER" in the email message. You can leave the Subject: field of your email blank.
Re: [AOLSERVER] configured minthreads, maxthreads doesnt show up with [ns_server threads] command
> On 2007.08.01, Michael Andrews <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I'd love to get AOLserver the point > where you simply specify maximum and minimum boundaries (which default > to the hardware's limits) and the server tunes itself based on the > workload it's receiving. Besides which, shouldn't decisions on this scale be community decisions, not decisions of the "I'd love to ..." variety? This isn't a personal sandbox. -- AOLserver - http://www.aolserver.com/ To Remove yourself from this list, simply send an email to <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> with the body of "SIGNOFF AOLSERVER" in the email message. You can leave the Subject: field of your email blank.
Re: [AOLSERVER] configured minthreads, maxthreads doesnt show up with [ns_server threads] command
> On 2007.08.01, Michael Andrews <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > The natural segue with "most settings changeable at runtime" is a body > of intelligent code that self-tunes and dynamically heals the server > (ala Oracle's clusterware, etc.). Oh, lord. There's a reason people avoid Oracle unless they really need it. And I haven't needed it for a long time. Besides which, we're not talking about anything nearly as complex as cluster management here. > I'd love to get AOLserver the point > where you simply specify maximum and minimum boundaries (which default > to the hardware's limits) and the server tunes itself based on the > workload it's receiving. You do, I'm sure, realize that this is more in the nature of a research project and something that shouldn't be let loose anywhere near a production release until it's been exhaustively tested by a reasonable number of people? Please tell me you're aware of a few basic software engineering principles. Please. -- AOLserver - http://www.aolserver.com/ To Remove yourself from this list, simply send an email to <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> with the body of "SIGNOFF AOLSERVER" in the email message. You can leave the Subject: field of your email blank.
Re: [AOLSERVER] configured minthreads, maxthreads doesnt show up with [ns_server threads] command
> Maybe this is the intent, although it would be easy to add the > server > name to the key. ISTM that virtual servers weren't considered when this code was written ... All code in current versions should be fully aware of virtual servers. > If this is the first experiment in how things will go... Experimental code shouldn't go into production releases. Seems obvious to me that this stuff's not production-quality. > Even if you could move all this module > configuration into modules and packages, you still have to configure which > modules to load and a bunch of other stuff. And, again, as I said earlier, ease of configuration has been a real plus for AOLserver over the years. Why walk away from that legacy? -- AOLserver - http://www.aolserver.com/ To Remove yourself from this list, simply send an email to <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> with the body of "SIGNOFF AOLSERVER" in the email message. You can leave the Subject: field of your email blank.
Re: [AOLSERVER] configured minthreads, maxthreads doesnt show up with [ns_server threads] command
> My opinion is that any OTHER pools should be created and managed by > Tcl Modules and or Tcl Packages, not the server config. So backwards compatibility with virtual servers disappears, then. One of the hallmarks of AOLserver has always been ease of configuration. My sense is that we're drifting away from that? -- AOLserver - http://www.aolserver.com/ To Remove yourself from this list, simply send an email to <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> with the body of "SIGNOFF AOLSERVER" in the email message. You can leave the Subject: field of your email blank.
Re: [AOLSERVER] configured minthreads, maxthreads doesnt show up with [ns_server threads] command
> The idea of thread pools and allowing the dynamic changing of pool > settings is a great addition to the code base. The failures here > were 1) communication, 2) backward compatibility of the config settings. I have no disagreement with this, at all. > As Nathan and I pointed out - it would not be a good idea to execute > the "ns_pools set default" command in the server config - but rather > in a Tcl file after the server starts - and use the cfg params. This > should have been added to the init.tcl file (where the Tcl files get > sourced) before the release. > > Once Nathan, Dossy, and I have a chance to talk - I will add this to > the HEAD, document, and send email. Makes a lot of sense, thanks. -- AOLserver - http://www.aolserver.com/ To Remove yourself from this list, simply send an email to <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> with the body of "SIGNOFF AOLSERVER" in the email message. You can leave the Subject: field of your email blank.
Re: [AOLSERVER] configured minthreads, maxthreads doesnt show up with [ns_server threads] command
> Technically everything in the configuration file is a Tcl command > (ns_section, ns_param, etc.) so it's really not that much of a stretch. > But > I agree, it is different. Technically, the configuration file is a bucket of bits, but that's not a very useful observation. > Had we ever actually gotten around to deploying AOLserver 4.5 internally > here at AOL, I'm sure we would have at least done the work to provide some > backwards compatibility wrappers for things like this, but as yet we > haven't. Geezus. In this case, the code simply shouldn't've gone in. Or it should've been offered to the community in its incomplete form, with the offer to incorporate it in 4.5 if volunteers in the community completed it. -- AOLserver - http://www.aolserver.com/ To Remove yourself from this list, simply send an email to <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> with the body of "SIGNOFF AOLSERVER" in the email message. You can leave the Subject: field of your email blank.
Re: [AOLSERVER] configured minthreads, maxthreads doesnt show up with [ns_server threads] command
> I think the best way to manage this change is to run the "ns_pools > set default" command from the init.tcl and use the cfg params. That > makes it backwards compatible. > > If folks agree - I can add that to the head today. Sounds reasonable to this hacker. -- AOLserver - http://www.aolserver.com/ To Remove yourself from this list, simply send an email to <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> with the body of "SIGNOFF AOLSERVER" in the email message. You can leave the Subject: field of your email blank.
Re: [AOLSERVER] configured minthreads, maxthreads doesnt show up with [ns_server threads] command
> You are absolutely correct. Lack of documentation continues to be one of > the > biggest issues with this project in my opinion. Not sure how best to > resolve > this at this point to be completely honest. Would be a great start if > other > folks would start contributing to the example configuration files and the > man pages. Is there anything that's making this difficult, and preventing > people from helping out? So, if I'm not mistaken, not only were existing config files broken, the basic philosophy of how AOLserver is configured changed for this important case (dynamic proc call), but ... There's not even any documentation telling people this? Something this significant shouldn't be implemented without documentation, and frankly, it's the developer's responsibility to make sure it's done. -- AOLserver - http://www.aolserver.com/ To Remove yourself from this list, simply send an email to <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> with the body of "SIGNOFF AOLSERVER" in the email message. You can leave the Subject: field of your email blank.
Re: [AOLSERVER] configured minthreads, maxthreads doesnt show up with [ns_server threads] command
> Nathan, > > This has to be the most bizzar change to the configuration setup for > AOLserver, is it really true? Now you have to execute commands inside the > config file to set this? This is absolutely crazy. The init file has never required dynamic execution of procs to work, and to have something this basic as an exception is nuts. Not to mention that breaking every bloody site's config file in the process is rather rude. Some of us still use AOLserver for production sites, hard as that is to believe. Was there community discussion of this change before it was implemented? It represents a huge change in configuration philosophy. Who's bright idea was this? -- AOLserver - http://www.aolserver.com/ To Remove yourself from this list, simply send an email to <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> with the body of "SIGNOFF AOLSERVER" in the email message. You can leave the Subject: field of your email blank.
Re: [AOLSERVER] aolserver bug
> i would recommend to add this or a similar fix to the > code base of aolserver 4.5, since the reported problem > persists as well in the new driver of 4.5 Let me second Gustaf on this. Our site (openacs.org) was locking up every few hours for some weeks before we applied this patch. After applying it, we've gone two full days without lock-up. This bug is real, and this or another fix really need to get into the code. -- AOLserver - http://www.aolserver.com/ To Remove yourself from this list, simply send an email to <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> with the body of "SIGNOFF AOLSERVER" in the email message. You can leave the Subject: field of your email blank.
Re: [AOLSERVER] nsdb dropping handles?
> If I manually "ns_db releasehandle" after every handle usage, I have > no problems (but the app is slower), it's only when I rely on the > auto-cleanup of handles when the ADP page closes that there's a problem. I've used the Oracle and PG drivers for years, and have never seen this. Then again, OpenACS has its own db API built on top of ns_db, which manages handle clean-up (using ns_db releasehandle). We only rely on auto-cleanup on errors, which is why the driver semantics call for any open transaction to be rolled back if a handle is open when a page finishes execution. -- AOLserver - http://www.aolserver.com/ To Remove yourself from this list, simply send an email to <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> with the body of "SIGNOFF AOLSERVER" in the email message. You can leave the Subject: field of your email blank.
Re: [AOLSERVER] A wolf in sheep's clothing: AOLserver behind Apache (was Re: AOLserver's documentation woes and its future)
> On 1 Sep 2006, at 21:41, Dossy Shiobara wrote: >> It's conceivable that you could run Apache as the web server (handling >> HTTP requests) sitting in front of AOLserver as the "application >> server." We all understand why this is largely unnecessary, but >> presumably it would get you past the auto-immune reaction of your >> customers. > Didn't ArsDigita create a "mod_aolserver" for this reason at some point? For the old, non-threaded Apache 1x. My understanding is that the Apache 2x is quite different, and mod_aolserver would not be a trivial task. -- AOLserver - http://www.aolserver.com/ To Remove yourself from this list, simply send an email to <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> with the body of "SIGNOFF AOLSERVER" in the email message. You can leave the Subject: field of your email blank.
Re: [AOLSERVER] A wolf in sheep's clothing: AOLserver behind Apache (was Re: AOLserver's documentation woes and its future)
> I find this kind of funny since organizations are willing to support > Tomcat, or WebSphere, etc. Well, yeah, but the IT people can point to articles in the mainstream IT press saying that these are the Enterprise Solutions of the Future, etc. And with Websphere they can point at it and say "well, it will cost us 5x as much as any reasonable solution, but it's IBM, so it will be worth it!" -- AOLserver - http://www.aolserver.com/ To Remove yourself from this list, simply send an email to <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> with the body of "SIGNOFF AOLSERVER" in the email message. You can leave the Subject: field of your email blank.
Re: [AOLSERVER] Is tcl exec _really_ bad with threads
> On Aug 30, 2006, at 8:56 AM, Nathan Folkman wrote: > >> What is it you are trying to exec? > > From OpenACS we mostly just exec Imagemagick. I can't think of > anything else. SQL*Plus and psql during installation or package install. -- AOLserver - http://www.aolserver.com/ To Remove yourself from this list, simply send an email to <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> with the body of "SIGNOFF AOLSERVER" in the email message. You can leave the Subject: field of your email blank.
Re: [AOLSERVER] SQL parse time overhead is not zero (was Re: [AOLSERVER] build nsd w/o locking?)
> On 2006.07.02, Andrew Piskorski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > If all you're using MySQL (or any SQL-fronted data persistence > mechanism) for is key-value lookups, then something like BDB ought to > win because SQL parse time overhead is not zero. SQL is not "free" in > that regard. Oracle caches parser and planner results ... the OpenACS db API allows for the caching of entire query results under control of application programmer. There's more than one way to skin a cat, in other words. > Of course, the *ONLY* compelling reason to push SQL into the DBMS using > stored procedures is the optimization around SQL parse time: parse it > once, store it inside the DBMS, to remove that cost at the per query > execution level. This makes sense when you have queries that are > short-lived and are executed rapidly, which can often be the case in > web-based applications. Oh, there are other reasons, as well. Abstraction. Taking advantage of the RDBMS's ability to avoid execution of the function at all under certain circumstances (PostgreSQL allows one to tell the optimizer that a function result is constant over the lifetime of a backend process, or during the lifetime of a single transaction, etc etc). > Again, the problem in the small (10 servers doing 40 q/s) is easy to > solve. But suppose you had to handle, say, 1MM q/s. Would you rather a > solution that required 2,500 servers, or 25,000? That factor of 10 gets > exponentially harder to support given physical requirements. When one builds systems at the very high end, one may very do what Google has done - write custom solutions that are much more efficient than *any* off-the-shelf solution. Then again, when working at the very high-end, one is likely to have the money to invest in such things. Most of us aren't so lucky. -- AOLserver - http://www.aolserver.com/ To Remove yourself from this list, simply send an email to <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> with the body of "SIGNOFF AOLSERVER" in the email message. You can leave the Subject: field of your email blank.
Re: [AOLSERVER] Scheduled proc occasionally not running
> This raises the question for me, should all scheduled procs be run in > their own thread to avoid creating these kinds of problems where other > procs get affected? This really depends on how crucial it is that the proc actually run every (say) 15 minutes. Something that sweeps a queue of messages to e-mail, or to empty a queue of messages successfully sent, can be skipped 10% of the time without causing the world to panic. All the messages will get sent, sometimes it might take 15 minutes longer if a sweep's skipped but most of us won't care all that much. -- AOLserver - http://www.aolserver.com/ To Remove yourself from this list, simply send an email to <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> with the body of "SIGNOFF AOLSERVER" in the email message. You can leave the Subject: field of your email blank.
Re: [AOLSERVER] Something wrong after 2006-05-12 21:25 (was Re: Weird "memory leak" problem in AOLserver 3.4.2/3.x)
> If only folks chose 10^8 instead of 10^9 ... it would have been 1157 > days or 3.1 years worth of MaxOpen/MaxIdle, and we wouldn't have > encountered this "weird thread hanging bug" until Nov 18, 2034. :-) > > -- Dossy Shit like this happens when you know your software platform's reliable! :) -- AOLserver - http://www.aolserver.com/ To Remove yourself from this list, simply send an email to <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> with the body of "SIGNOFF AOLSERVER" in the email message. You can leave the Subject: field of your email blank.
Re: [AOLSERVER] Something wrong after 2006-05-12 21:25 (was Re: Weird "memory leak" problem in AOLserver 3.4.2/3.x)
> If only folks chose 10^8 instead of 10^9 ... it would have been 1157 > days or 3.1 years worth of MaxOpen/MaxIdle, and we wouldn't have > encountered this "weird thread hanging bug" until Nov 18, 2034. :-) > > -- Dossy Shit like this happens when you know your software platform's reliable and may not crash for decades! :) -- AOLserver - http://www.aolserver.com/ To Remove yourself from this list, simply send an email to <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> with the body of "SIGNOFF AOLSERVER" in the email message. You can leave the Subject: field of your email blank.
Re: [AOLSERVER] Something wrong after 2006-05-12 21:25 (was Re: Weird "memory leak" problem in AOLserver 3.4.2/3.x)
> On 2006.05.19, Stan Kaufman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > It might be a good idea for the OpenACS folks to edit/update their > documentation and sample configs to correct this, as well ... although > it'll never be May 13, 2006 ever again, so maybe it's a non-issue. :-) Now that zero works, we'll probably switch to that. I know it's worked for years, sometimes it takes us a while to catch up :) -- AOLserver - http://www.aolserver.com/ To Remove yourself from this list, simply send an email to <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> with the body of "SIGNOFF AOLSERVER" in the email message. You can leave the Subject: field of your email blank.
Re: [AOLSERVER] Something wrong after 2006-05-12 21:25 (was Re: Weird "memory leak" problem in AOLserver 3.4.2/3.x)
> On Fri, May 19, 2006 at 02:30:54PM -0700, dhogaza@PACIFIER.COM wrote: > # You can also set > # them to zero, but at the time the bug was discovered, AOLserver had > # a bug that prevented you from setting them to zero. Yeah, I knew there was a reason a big number rather than zero was chosen, too, but couldn't remember why. How funny. -- AOLserver - http://www.aolserver.com/ To Remove yourself from this list, simply send an email to <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> with the body of "SIGNOFF AOLSERVER" in the email message. You can leave the Subject: field of your email blank.
Re: [AOLSERVER] Something wrong after 2006-05-12 21:25 (was Re: Weird "memory leak" problem in AOLserver 3.4.2/3.x)
>> On 2006.05.19, 'Jesus' Jeff Rogers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I admit I've not been paying as close attention to this thread as I might, > as I've not used 3.3 in years. Next time remind me that this is a good reason to think before posting, folks! -- AOLserver - http://www.aolserver.com/ To Remove yourself from this list, simply send an email to <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> with the body of "SIGNOFF AOLSERVER" in the email message. You can leave the Subject: field of your email blank.
Re: [AOLSERVER] Something wrong after 2006-05-12 21:25 (was Re: Weird "memory leak" problem in AOLserver 3.4.2/3.x)
> (which I think was done to work around some ancient bug in an ancient > version of the nsoracle driver) then you get the problem. I think the problem was in the oracle library (OCI), but it's been a long, long time. > I imagine on Linux it manifests differently; on Solaris I got the EINVAL > return from pthread_cond_timedwait (of course it isn't documented that > this can mean a bad time, it usually means a bad pointer) Oh, ignore my last post, I see know that I'm paying attention again :) The billion seconds added to the current time when the database handle's created is causing the problem, with Solaris being nice enough to toss an error, Linux just screwing up. And a billion seconds is in the neighborhood of 31-32 years. Y2.038K indeed! -- AOLserver - http://www.aolserver.com/ To Remove yourself from this list, simply send an email to <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> with the body of "SIGNOFF AOLSERVER" in the email message. You can leave the Subject: field of your email blank.
Re: [AOLSERVER] Something wrong after 2006-05-12 21:25 (was Re: Weird "memory leak" problem in AOLserver 3.4.2/3.x)
> On 2006.05.19, 'Jesus' Jeff Rogers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Ahahaha! Yes, in the back of my head I always wondered (and never > bothered to compute) when that silly value of 10^9 would bite someone. > Guess it's May 12, 2006. :-) > > Can everyone who's affected go and change MaxIdle and MaxOpen and > anything else that's a time-in-seconds parameter and lop off a few zeros > and see if that makes the problem "go away"? > > This is too funny. I'm still chuckling ... :-) Thanks for figuring it > out! This is the number of seconds the handle is kept alive after it is first created. Not the number of seconds the handle is kept alive from the beginning of some AOLserver magic zero moment. Aren't people having this problem after rebooting, too? I admit I've not been paying as close attention to this thread as I might, as I've not used 3.3 in years. -- AOLserver - http://www.aolserver.com/ To Remove yourself from this list, simply send an email to <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> with the body of "SIGNOFF AOLSERVER" in the email message. You can leave the Subject: field of your email blank.
Re: [AOLSERVER] Weird "memory leak" problem in AOLserver 3.4.2/3.x
> dhogaza@PACIFIER.COM wrote: >> My God, it sounds to me like you're all being bit by the Y2.006K >> problem! :) >> > That answer is closer than you think (at least if everyone is having the > same problem I was) ... actually it's Y2.038K Yes, indeed, I suspect everyone here on the list is aware of the linux 32-bit time issue. -- AOLserver - http://www.aolserver.com/ To Remove yourself from this list, simply send an email to <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> with the body of "SIGNOFF AOLSERVER" in the email message. You can leave the Subject: field of your email blank.
Re: [AOLSERVER] Something wrong after 2006-05-12 21:25 (was Re: Weird "memory leak" problem in AOLserver 3.4.2/3.x)
> All versions of AOLserver 3.3 REQUIRED and shipped with their own > special version of Tcl 8.3.x. So unless you took very special steps > to make it do so, it's very unlikely that your AOLserver is using any > other version of Tcl. I tried once to make AOLserver 3.3+ad13 use a > newer version of Tcl - I failed, and I never heard of anyone else > doing it either. I did some googling and it appears you're right. People did get 8.4 working with AOLserver 3.4, but not 3.3 ... -- AOLserver - http://www.aolserver.com/ To Remove yourself from this list, simply send an email to <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> with the body of "SIGNOFF AOLSERVER" in the email message. You can leave the Subject: field of your email blank.
Re: [AOLSERVER] Something wrong after 2006-05-12 21:25 (was Re: Weird "memory leak" problem in AOLserver 3.4.2/3.x)
>> So, you're seeing this problem even on AOLserver 4.0? What version of >> OpenACS? > > I don't think anyone has seen this problem on AOLserver 4.0. Right, I think he meant they're fleeing to AOLserver 4.x to get rid of the problem, and was just posting his current system info so others might be able to figure out why 3.x isn't working. -- AOLserver - http://www.aolserver.com/ To Remove yourself from this list, simply send an email to <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> with the body of "SIGNOFF AOLSERVER" in the email message. You can leave the Subject: field of your email blank.
Re: [AOLSERVER] Weird "memory leak" problem in AOLserver 3.4.2/3.x
> I have three servers running identical installations of > AOLserver/3.3.1+ad13. On two (development and production, very low and > relatively low traffic volumes respectively) all scheduled procs have > stopped firing. My God, it sounds to me like you're all being bit by the Y2.006K problem! :) -- AOLserver - http://www.aolserver.com/ To Remove yourself from this list, simply send an email to <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> with the body of "SIGNOFF AOLSERVER" in the email message. You can leave the Subject: field of your email blank.
Re: [AOLSERVER] config file example of multihome config?
> What I'm looking to do is have multiple $servers in one aolserver > process > > Iie: host several unrelated web sites with one aolserver process. > > Doable? Config example? Here's the wiki entry on virtual hosting: http://panoptic.com/wiki/aolserver/Virtual_Hosting That example is for multiple servers on a single IP. Since you've figured out how to listen to multiple IPs you should be able to figure out how to bind them to different virtual servers ... Post a working example when you have one and ... add it to the wiki! -- AOLserver - http://www.aolserver.com/ To Remove yourself from this list, simply send an email to <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> with the body of "SIGNOFF AOLSERVER" in the email message. You can leave the Subject: field of your email blank.
Re: [AOLSERVER] Dropping temporary tables from Postgres 7.1
> I use temporary tables in Postgres 7.1 (via "select foo into temporary > table > bar"). These are needed for a short time only. I expected they would > periodically be deleted. In PG 8.1, at least, they're deleted at session end. AOLserver's db pool mechanism means that might never happen while your site's up if you tell it to keep handles around forever as some of us, at least, do. Alternatively you can start a transaction, and create the temp table with the "on commit drop" clause. Populate it, use it, then end the transaction and poof! It's gone. -- AOLserver - http://www.aolserver.com/ To Remove yourself from this list, simply send an email to <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> with the body of "SIGNOFF AOLSERVER" in the email message. You can leave the Subject: field of your email blank.
Re: [AOLSERVER] code patch to enable default filename extension
> Well, I'd probably leave to that someone else then, because fast is > what I need. Have you measured the additional overhead of a filter, or are you just assuming it will be slow? -- AOLserver - http://www.aolserver.com/ To Remove yourself from this list, simply send an email to <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> with the body of "SIGNOFF AOLSERVER" in the email message. You can leave the Subject: field of your email blank.
Re: [AOLSERVER] code patch to enable default filename extension
> Patching the core in this critical spot also seems to be too > much for a specific feature like this. Yeah. The major motivation seems to be a belief that it will be significantly faster than running a simple Tcl filter to do the job. I would argue that this is precisely the kind of thing filters should be used for. > My suggestion is to use a filter to do this as an add on module based upon > ns_rewriteurl. It may not be as fast, but it will be vastly more > configurable. Yep ... -- AOLserver - http://www.aolserver.com/ To Remove yourself from this list, simply send an email to <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> with the body of "SIGNOFF AOLSERVER" in the email message. You can leave the Subject: field of your email blank.
Re: [AOLSERVER] code patch to enable default filename extension
> I'm pretty sure my code below is harmless and appears bug-free... Well, it would break OpenACS. If such a feature is added, it should be optional and configurable. -- AOLserver - http://www.aolserver.com/ To Remove yourself from this list, simply send an email to <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> with the body of "SIGNOFF AOLSERVER" in the email message. You can leave the Subject: field of your email blank.
Re: [AOLSERVER] Retrieving oid from INSERT
> On 2006.04.06, Bas Scheffers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > As much as people criticize MySQL's replication and clustering, where's > Postgres's? I don't see any mention of it in Postgres 8.1 docs: > > http://www.postgresql.org/docs/8.1/interactive/index.html That's because replication isn't part of basic PG support. You can choose a couple of options, though: PGCluster - Multi-master no delay synchronus replication for load sharing or HA. Large objects are now supported. Slony-I - Master to multi-slave cascading and almost-failover. > The docs also don't mention any GIS support. PostgreSQL has had operators and index support for polygons and the like forever. Some of the earliest users of PG with large databases were in the GIS realm. > Just the same, I don't feel a big need to migrate folks onto > MySQL, either. The people who wrote MySQL have the ethical standards of the George W. Bush administration. -- AOLserver - http://www.aolserver.com/ To Remove yourself from this list, simply send an email to <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> with the body of "SIGNOFF AOLSERVER" in the email message. You can leave the Subject: field of your email blank.
Re: [AOLSERVER] Questions on AOLserver virtual hosting
> Jeremy Henty said: >> That's exactly why I'm asking all these questions! I'm looking at >> porting >> an ACS-based site to virtual hosts and I'm trying to figure out >> everything >> that could go wrong. When virtual hosting was first added to AOLserver, I tested against OpenACS and running two sites worked fine. -- AOLserver - http://www.aolserver.com/ To Remove yourself from this list, simply send an email to <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> with the body of "SIGNOFF AOLSERVER" in the email message. You can leave the Subject: field of your email blank.
Re: [AOLSERVER] auto-sizing thread stacks?
> Even C could avoid using the stack by instead allocating function > activation frames on the heap, but I guess no one wants to do that > because it would make function calls slower. Try "much slower" ... -- AOLserver - http://www.aolserver.com/ To Remove yourself from this list, simply send an email to <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> with the body of "SIGNOFF AOLSERVER" in the email message. You can leave the Subject: field of your email blank.
Re: [AOLSERVER] Does AOLserver 4.x require -b to bind to privileged ports?
> Yeah, exactly. That's the number one reason why we have a web-service > starting script that knows how to start each of the different possible web > services, by service name only. But modifying that script to know which > ports and IPs every service listens on--when that information is already > encoded in the config files--will be a real pain. -B reads the bind address:port pair from a file. With AOLserver 4 you simply need to supply two files (config + the file for -B) rather than one file. You can still use your general web-service starting script. If service "foo" causes your script to use the "foo.tcl" config file, have it do something like "-B foo-bind.txt" as well. -- AOLserver - http://www.aolserver.com/ To Remove yourself from this list, simply send an email to <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> with the body of "SIGNOFF AOLSERVER" in the email message. You can leave the Subject: field of your email blank.
[AOLSERVER] Building 4.0.10 on Fedora Core 4 ...
gcc version 4.0.1 20050727 (Red Hat 4.0.1-5) gcc objects to the following at line 843 in nsd/conn.c: connPtr = (Conn *) conn = itPtr->conn; This works however (doesn't like the cast on the lvalue conn? the error message is bad lvalue) This works: conn = itPtr->conn; connPtr = (Conn *) conn; With that fixed, all the C files compile... -- AOLserver - http://www.aolserver.com/ To Remove yourself from this list, simply send an email to <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> with the body of "SIGNOFF AOLSERVER" in the email message. You can leave the Subject: field of your email blank.
Re: [AOLSERVER] AOLserver, NTLM, Apache+mod_proxy, and FastCGI (was Re: multi protocol question)
> On 2005.02.08, John Sequeira <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > To be clear, this isn't /replacing/ AOLserver with Apache or IIS, but > simply allowing Apache or IIS to front an AOLserver. I can totally > understand someone wanting to fund the necessary development to make > OpenACS or .LRN work without AOLserver /at all/, but I don't see the > motivation to pay to add yet another layer of complexity to the stack > ... There are some in the OpenACS/.LRN community who claim that we'd get greater acceptance if we "ran under Apache" even if that meant simply running AOLserver as an app fronted by Apache. I'm not a big believer, myself, but the claim has been made by some that they've lost busines that they could've won if this were true. If they or you or other interested parties choose to do the work, funded or on a volunteer basis, they'll then be able to test their hypothesis in the marketplace :) > But as you said, if decision-making were founded in good sense and were > about the value proposition, how does one explain such things like > ColdFusion. :-) That's the spirit of the proposal as I understand it! -- AOLserver - http://www.aolserver.com/ To Remove yourself from this list, simply send an email to <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> with the body of "SIGNOFF AOLSERVER" in the email message. You can leave the Subject: field of your email blank.
Re: [AOLSERVER] QOS, SEDA Re: [AOLSERVER] Support for non-HTTP protocols
> This brings up an interesting point. What kinds of Web sites and > applications do folks typically build with AOLserver? I suspect this type site will become more common in the future, but at present I'd be surprised if most sites being built with AOLserver weren't monolithic, the major exception being credit card settlement... > At AOL we were > discussing using such a feature for sites which include many Web service > calls to other systems, and for other things like server-side ad system > calls, etc. Are you using separate ad server software? or physical server? -- AOLserver - http://www.aolserver.com/ To Remove yourself from this list, simply send an email to <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> with the body of "SIGNOFF AOLSERVER" in the email message. You can leave the Subject: field of your email blank.
Re: [AOLSERVER] QOS, SEDA Re: [AOLSERVER] Support for non-HTTP protocols
> The SEDA article discusses an approach where you mix a single-threaded > event driven piece, in our case it could be the driver thread, with > multi-threaded workers, the connection threads. The idea is to avoid > having the connection threads, which are relatively precious resources, > from sitting around idle waiting on things like I/O. ... > The main point of this approach is to move the I/O events up into the > single-threaded driver thread, and to avoid waiting on events in your > connection threads. That's roughly the idea at least. ;-) > > Hopefully that makes sense? Yes, it makes sense, though I'm not sure how much sense it makes in the context of the typical kind of website we build with AOLserver. -- AOLserver - http://www.aolserver.com/ To Remove yourself from this list, simply send an email to <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> with the body of "SIGNOFF AOLSERVER" in the email message. You can leave the Subject: field of your email blank.
Re: [AOLSERVER] QOS, SEDA Re: [AOLSERVER] Support for non-HTTP protocols
> On Tue, Aug 17, 2004 at 01:32:23PM -0700, Jim Wilcoxson wrote: > >> The reason thread pools would be interesting to me personally is to be >> able to control quality of service better. For example, I may want a >> pool of 5 threads to handle search engine spidering requests, and a >> pool of 5 threads to handle PHP requests, 5 threads to handle a > > Previously, someone on the list (ah, it was Nathan Folkman) > recommended Matt Welsh's SEDA paper: > > http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/msg07026.html > http://www.eecs.harvard.edu/~mdw/papers/mdw-phdthesis.pdf > http://www.eecs.harvard.edu/~mdw/proj/seda/ > > That sort of thing sounds both useful and doable in AOLserver. Can you tell us how it would be better than the thread pool mechanism which was added to AOLserver 4? -- AOLserver - http://www.aolserver.com/ To Remove yourself from this list, simply send an email to <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> with the body of "SIGNOFF AOLSERVER" in the email message. You can leave the Subject: field of your email blank.
Re: [AOLSERVER] Support for non-HTTP protocols
> I propose this: No one is allowed to claim that any patch either is or > is not a big source of complexity and mainenance headaches unless > they've at least actually read the code in the patch. > > So far, the only people who've actually claimed they've read the > patches are the two authors and Zoran. I'm guessing Dossy has read > them too but I'm not sure. Did you, Don? I haven't, nor am I claiming it will be a "big source". However, it is undeniable that added features mean added complexity and increased maintenance. Big or not. The discussion should center on whether or not the increase is worth it. I happen to think it's not because I personally have no desire to use AOLserver as anything other than a webserver. > I can't seem to checkout the AOLserver head from SourceForge right > now, so I haven't applied it against 4.1 in order to read what it > really does, but according to wc -l, Vlad's patch is a grand total of > 147 lines. Maybe that's why it's a kludge rather than a proper solution, then... > > You know what? I have a REAL hard time believing that this 147 line > patch could possibly be the complexity and maintenance nightmare Please post the specific sentence in which I said it would be a "nightmare". > Arguments about avoiding kludges and the like are worth hearing, but > please, let's not go overboard on the, "Any change at all is > potentially destabilising, evil evil evil!" Again, please post the specific sentence in which I used the word "evil". -- AOLserver - http://www.aolserver.com/ To Remove yourself from this list, simply send an email to <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> with the body of "SIGNOFF AOLSERVER" in the email message. You can leave the Subject: field of your email blank.
Re: [AOLSERVER] Support for non-HTTP protocols
> Of course they are kludges Well, there we have it, an excellent argument for not adapting these particular patches. > With every version we have bunch of things not working, openssl comes to > mind, > modules and drivers API changed. So this argument do not hold water. Well, no. The less complex the software we're maintaining, the fewer maintenances headaches we'll have over time. That's a given. The argument is whether or not the feature's worth that extra cost, and if the feature IS worth that extra cost, whether the kludge that's proposed is the proper way to implement it. -- AOLserver - http://www.aolserver.com/ To Remove yourself from this list, simply send an email to <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> with the body of "SIGNOFF AOLSERVER" in the email message. You can leave the Subject: field of your email blank.
Re: [AOLSERVER] Support for non-HTTP protocols
> The reason thread pools would be interesting to me personally is to be
> able to control quality of service better. For example, I may want a
> pool of 5 threads to handle search engine spidering requests, and a
> pool of 5 threads to handle PHP requests, 5 threads to handle a
> particular application that uses a different database, 5 threads to
> handle CGI requests, 10 threads to TCL requests, 5 to handle image
> serving (fastpath), 5 to handle all other requests. I'd want to
> dispatch the requests to the various thread pools myself, using TCL
> code. The protocol and communication method (TCP vs UDP) part are
> all the same here - HTTP.
> Perhaps this can all be done today with AS 4 using multiple IP
> addresses - I dunno.
>From sample-config.tcl ... you can map by URL, which means that by proper
partition of your URL-space you can do all you discuss above but shove
requests from spiders into their own thread pool.
#
# Example: Multiple connection thread pools.
#
# To enable:
#
# 1. Define one or more thread pools.
# 2. Configure pools as with the default server pool.
# 3. Map method/URL combinations to the pools
#
# All unmapped method/URL's will go to the default server pool.
#
#ns_section ns/server/server1/pools
#ns_section slow "Slow requests here."
#ns_section fast "Fast requests here."
#
#ns_section ns/server/server1/pool/slow
#ns_param map {POST /slowupload.adp}
#ns_param maxconnections 100 ;# Max connections to put on queue
#ns_param maxdropped 0 ;# Shut down if dropping too many conns
#ns_param maxthreads 20;# Tune this to scale your server
#ns_param minthreads 0 ;# Tune this to scale your server
#ns_param threadtimeout 120 ;# Idle threads die at this rate
#
#ns_section ns/server/server1/pool/fast
#ns_param map {GET /faststuff.adp}
#ns_param maxthreads 10
#
--
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Re: [AOLSERVER] Support for non-HTTP protocols
> Time and energy have been already spent by implementing/testing those > patches Arguments of this sort apply to EVERY patch and have nothing to do with whether or not it's a good idea to apply them to the code. -- AOLserver - http://www.aolserver.com/ To Remove yourself from this list, simply send an email to <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> with the body of "SIGNOFF AOLSERVER" in the email message. You can leave the Subject: field of your email blank.
Re: [AOLSERVER] Support for non-HTTP protocols
> On Tue, Aug 17, 2004 at 08:55:26AM -0400, Dossy Shiobara wrote: > For example, arguments along the lines of: > - The patches will make the code more complicated, uglier, bug prone, > or harder to maintain. Three of the four points above are a given. 1. The code will be more complicated. 2. More code and new features increase the probability of bugs. 3. Yes, it will be harder to maintain, because the new features will need to be tested for each release. I have no idea if the code's ugly or not. > In short, it makes no sense to argue that, "There is no value to these > patches." We already knows that they DO have value. Every proposed patch has value by your definition, since you argued the proof of value is that someone wrote the code that goes into the patch. This doesn't mean that every patch implements a good idea, though. > Flexibility, power, and options are good. This is commonly known as the MicroSoft definition of software quality. It's all about features, not about the appropriateness of implementing those features in a particular piece of software. > Giving people the option to > code non-HTTP servers in C using AOLserver is GOOD. Why? All I want is a simple, reliable, efficient web server that provides me with a nice DB interface and a built-in interpretive language. Is also good to give people the option to do their word processing in AOLserver? If not, why not, and where's the intrinsic difference in goodness between one case and the other? > If people see > real problems in these patches to do that, yes please, speak up, we > need to hear about it! But the AOLserver project also has a LONG > history of opposing useful, important patches (even bug fixes!) from > outside developers, often for no apparent reason at all, and that sort > of "not invented here" syndrome gets awfully tiresome. Where's the NIH syndrome here? This represents a major change in philosophy, that AOLserver is no longer a webserver but something entirely different. Has nothing to do with who invented the patch. -- AOLserver - http://www.aolserver.com/ To Remove yourself from this list, simply send an email to <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> with the body of "SIGNOFF AOLSERVER" in the email message. You can leave the Subject: field of your email blank.
Re: [AOLSERVER] How about... compiling alternative languages into TCL?
> On Tue, 2004-05-25 at 08:20, Daniël Mantione wrote: > Hmmm. Are we looking at the same code? I'm quite sure it converts the > .adp & .tcl into a Tcl script, which it then evaluates. That would be > contradictory with ns_adp_parse. Well, time to take a closer look at it, Look at template::adp_compile_chunk. -- AOLserver - http://www.aolserver.com/ To Remove yourself from this list, simply send an email to <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> with the body of "SIGNOFF AOLSERVER" in the email message. You can leave the Subject: field of your email blank.
Re: [AOLSERVER] ODBC driver
> On Tue, 2004-03-02 at 16:55, Andrew Piskorski wrote: >> Hm, maybe that should actually be movded into the standard ns_db API? No - it's the wrong thing to do with any database that implements variables that can be assigned values and later used in SQL queries. Is Oracle the only popular RDBMS to do this? I think there's been talk of maybe implementing them in PG in which case the bindvar kludge (I helped write it, I get to call it that!) would hopefully go away (assuming the PG group implemented them in a useful way). The emulation behavior helps prevent SQL smuggling by quoting literals, and the SQL standard demands that '123' be converted to an integer so the kludge is on safe grounds in that regard. On the other hand the empty value to NULL conversion paradigm is strictly an Oracle-ism we copied for convenience (there being no quoted literal value that converts to NULL). >> I never looked closely but there's other stuff like that too, LOBs, >> etc. It would be kind of nice if there was one standard ns_db >> interface to such extended features > > brainstorm time, anyone else have ideas? LOBs by their nature are unportable. We're not using PG LOBs anyway but rather fake 'em in the driver (this isn't the place to reiterate the problems with PG's built-in LOBs that led to this decision). If we used native LOBs the interface is so different than Oracle's it's pointless, IMO, to think of trying to standardize an API at the driver level. >> Dunno, I never looked much at how the bind variable emulation actually >> worked, I just figured the OpenACS guys who wrote it must have known >> what they were doing and slapped it in. :) We just quote the value stored in the corresponding Tcl var, and convert the empty string to NULL. This is semantically equivalent to how Oracle bindvars work, believe it or not. Well, not so surprising, undoubtably Oracle's calling the convert-from-string function for the target type for each bind var just like PG does (and SQL sez it must do) for the quoted literals we feed it. Thus we can share standard queries using the bindvar notation between Oracle and PG ... and this approach stifles SQL smuggling. -- AOLserver - http://www.aolserver.com/ To Remove yourself from this list, simply send an email to <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> with the body of "SIGNOFF AOLSERVER" in the email message. You can leave the Subject: field of your email blank.
Re: [AOLSERVER] Trouble compiling oracle driver 2.6 for RH Linux 3ES and Oracle 9i
> On Feb 10, 2004, at 9:36 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > I really didn't plan on changing the ns_db interface if that is what you > are getting at. OK, yes, that's mostly what I'm getting at. >> Also, Jeff Davis of the OpenACS crew has been de facto maintainer of >> the >> driver - do you plan to talk to him before moving forward? We've not >> made >> many changes in either the Oracle or Postgres driver the past couple >> of years or more because they meet our needs and AFAIK the needs of >> others. >> > > Huh, well its meets our needs too but that doesn't mean it cannot get > better. One of our *major* needs is for rock-solid reliability ... the more features that are added, the higher the risk that we lose some of that. So let's keep this in mind as we add features ... -- AOLserver - http://www.aolserver.com/ To Remove yourself from this list, simply send an email to <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> with the body of "SIGNOFF AOLSERVER" in the email message. You can leave the Subject: field of your email blank.
Re: [AOLSERVER] Trouble compiling oracle driver 2.6 for RH Linux 3ES and Oracle 9i
> On Feb 9, 2004, at 6:27 PM, Andrew Piskorski wrote: >> >> Well, OpenACS uses it of course, and would have to adapt their db_* >> API to cope with any nsoracle driver API changes. Hopefully the db_* >> api is the only OpenACS code using calls specific to nsoracle. I'm >> not sure what part's of the nsoracle API need "cleaning up" though, >> nor if or why it would be worth it. >> > > Maybe I should rephrase that. I only intend to clean up parts of the > API as needed to facilitate future improvement of the driver. I do not > intend to make gratuitous changes to the API. Initially I only plan to > clean up the code and migrate it to use Tcl 8.x Tcl_Objs. I have a db > layer of my own that I'd rather not rewrite so don't worry much about > things getting hacked up. I'll try to stay backward compatible where I > can. Can you be more specific as to how you might break backward's compatibility? The AOLserver db drivers implement a common core API that greatly simplifies life for those of us who write code to support more than one RDBMS, as is true of OpenACS. Also, Jeff Davis of the OpenACS crew has been de facto maintainer of the driver - do you plan to talk to him before moving forward? We've not made many changes in either the Oracle or Postgres driver the past couple of years or more because they meet our needs and AFAIK the needs of others. Switching to use Tcl_Objs is a good idea, no problem with that. -- AOLserver - http://www.aolserver.com/ To Remove yourself from this list, simply send an email to <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> with the body of "SIGNOFF AOLSERVER" in the email message. You can leave the Subject: field of your email blank.
