Re: [apple-crop] Late summer drop and fruit size

[Ernest Rollins]

Vincent,

 

You did not mention the variety you are working with, and it may or may not
be relevant.  Some varieties adapt well to a multi-pick system where
remaining fruit increases in size when the largest are harvested.  I suppose
“drop” is a type of “harvest.” Some variety/rootstock/location
combinations seem determined to produce a certain size apple regardless of
crop load, rainfall, pruning or thinning.

 

 

 

Did you also note vegetative growth of the tree?  Some trees for me seem to
devote more energy to starting vegetative growth under light crop load and
then continue the vegetative growth at the expense of fruit size.   A tree
that is heavily loaded early may “choose” not to sprout new shoots and
devote all energy to crop.  (similar to results of Apogee)  Is it plausible
that as the number of fruit increase the energy devoted to crop growth
increases?  Crop load may “stress” some varieties into a higher output mode.

 

 

 

In my experience results from very late hand thinning are VERY variety
specific.

 

 

 

 

Ernest Rollins

207-717-7057

 

 

Rollins Orchards

262 Dexter Rd

Garland, Maine

 

207-924-3504

 

www.rollinsorchards.com

 

 

 

From: apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net
[mailto:apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net] On Behalf Of Vincent Philion
Sent: Monday, January 13, 2014 12:12 PM
To: Apple-Crop
Subject: [apple-crop] Late summer drop and fruit size

 

Hello, I’m analyzing some data and I have seemingly contradictory results.
I’m hoping someone can comment and make sense of this:

 

For a number of randomly selected trees, fruit drop was recorded starting
late summer until harvest. For each tree, we recorded total fruit drop (and
weight), harvested fruit (and weight) and the total (drop + harvest). As I
was looking at the data, I noticed average harvested fruit size
(weight/number) was related to Total fruits per tree… Nothing strange, until
I realized harvested fruit size INCREASED with Total fruit number on tree.
As if the fruit dropping left more energy for the remaining fruits to grow?

 

I was expecting harvested fruit size to be smaller on trees that had more
total fruit, not the other way around.  

 

I’m not sure this late natural fruit drop can be compared to very late hand
thinning, but does anyone know if fruit size increase can be linked to late
thinning (notwithstanding total yield that can go down)?

 

Maybe this is “normal”?

 

Any comment welcome!

 

Vincent

 

 

 


 

 


 


Vincent Philion,M.Sc. agr. Microbiologiste

Phytopathologiste pomiculture 




Institut de recherche et de développement en agro-environnement

Research and Development Institute for the Agri-Environment

 

www.irda.qc.ca  

 

Centre de recherche

335, Rang des Vingt-Cinq Est

Saint-Bruno-de-Montarville (Québec) J3V 0G7

 

vincent.phil...@irda.qc.ca

 

Bureau: 450 653-7368 poste 350

Cellulaire: 514-623-8275

Skype: VENTURIA

Télécopie: 450 653-1927 

 

Verger expérimental

330, Rang des vingt-cinq Est

Saint-Bruno-de-Montarville (Québec) J3V 4P6

Téléphone et télécopieur : 450 653-8375

Local pesticide: 450-653-7608

 

 

Pour nous trouver, cliquer sur le lien:

Laboratoire
 

Verger
 

 

Fiers héritiers du travail des frères Saint-Gabri :
http://arboretum8gabrielis.wordpress.com
 

 

Like most of the data I deal with, I'm best described as either "zero
inflated Poisson", or "zero inflated negative binomial". Anything but
"Normal".

 

Un expert est une personne qui a fait toutes les erreurs qui peuvent être
faites dans un domaine très étroit. 

~ Niels Bohr

 

C'est pas parce qu'ils sont nombreux à avoir tort qu'ils ont raison…

~ Coluche

 

To call in the statistician after the experiment is done may be no more than
asking him to perform a post-mortem examination: he may be able to say what
the experiment died of.

~ Sir Ronald Aylmer Fisher

 

The plural of anecdote is not data.

~ Roger Brinner

 

The combination of some data and an aching desire for an answer does not
ensure that a reasonable answer can be extracted from a given body of data.

~ John Tukey

 

Prediction is difficult, especially of the future. 

~ Mark Twain (also attributed to Niels Bohr and Yogi Berra) 

 

There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics.

~ Mark Twain or Disraeli

 

Without deviation from the norm, Progress is not possible.

~ Frank Zappa

 

If you don’t know where you are going, you will wind up somewhere else.

~ Yogi Berra

 

You can see 

Re: [apple-crop] Late summer drop and fruit size

[Con.Traas]

Hello Vincent,
Did you control for tree size, by means of, for instance, calculating yield per 
trunk cross sectional area. If you did not, then your bigger trees, which by 
definition became bigger because they were more vigorous, might be expected to 
carry larger fruits (even if Total fruits per tree is greater (but not too much 
greater)), by virtue of their  vigorous nature.
Con



From: apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net on behalf of Vincent Philion
Sent: Mon 13/01/2014 17:12
To: Apple-Crop
Subject: [apple-crop] Late summer drop and fruit size


Hello, I'm analyzing some data and I have seemingly contradictory results. I'm 
hoping someone can comment and make sense of this: 

For a number of randomly selected trees, fruit drop was recorded starting late 
summer until harvest. For each tree, we recorded total fruit drop (and weight), 
harvested fruit (and weight) and the total (drop + harvest). As I was looking 
at the data, I noticed average harvested fruit size (weight/number) was related 
to Total fruits per tree... Nothing strange, until I realized harvested fruit 
size INCREASED with Total fruit number on tree. As if the fruit dropping left 
more energy for the remaining fruits to grow?

I was expecting harvested fruit size to be smaller on trees that had more total 
fruit, not the other way around.  

I'm not sure this late natural fruit drop can be compared to very late hand 
thinning, but does anyone know if fruit size increase can be linked to late 
thinning (notwithstanding total yield that can go down)?

Maybe this is "normal"?

Any comment welcome!

Vincent





 





Vincent Philion,M.Sc. agr. Microbiologiste

Phytopathologiste pomiculture 








Institut de recherche et de développement en agro-environnement

Research and Development Institute for the Agri-Environment




www.irda.qc.ca  




Centre de recherche

335, Rang des Vingt-Cinq Est

Saint-Bruno-de-Montarville (Québec) J3V 0G7




vincent.phil...@irda.qc.ca




Bureau: 450 653-7368 poste 350

Cellulaire: 514-623-8275

Skype: VENTURIA

Télécopie: 450 653-1927 




Verger expérimental

330, Rang des vingt-cinq Est

Saint-Bruno-de-Montarville (Québec) J3V 4P6

Téléphone et télécopieur : 450 653-8375

Local pesticide: 450-653-7608







Pour nous trouver, cliquer sur le lien:

Laboratoire 
 

Verger 

 




Fiers héritiers du travail des frères Saint-Gabri : 
http://arboretum8gabrielis.wordpress.com 
 




Like most of the data I deal with, I'm best described as either "zero inflated 
Poisson", or "zero inflated negative binomial". Anything but "Normal".




Un expert est une personne qui a fait toutes les erreurs qui peuvent être 
faites dans un domaine très étroit. 

~ Niels Bohr




C'est pas parce qu'ils sont nombreux à avoir tort qu'ils ont raison...

~ Coluche




To call in the statistician after the experiment is done may be no more than 
asking him to perform a post-mortem examination: he may be able to say what the 
experiment died of.

~ Sir Ronald Aylmer Fisher




The plural of anecdote is not data.

~ Roger Brinner




The combination of some data and an aching desire for an answer does not ensure 
that a reasonable answer can be extracted from a given body of data.

~ John Tukey




Prediction is difficult, especially of the future. 

~ Mark Twain (also attributed to Niels Bohr and Yogi Berra) 




There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics.

~ Mark Twain or Disraeli




Without deviation from the norm, Progress is not possible.

~ Frank Zappa




If you don't know where you are going, you will wind up somewhere else.

~ Yogi Berra




You can see a lot just by looking.

~ Yogi Berra




Poor, but proudly at the highest step I'm qualified for.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Principle




Inhibiteur de rodomontades depuis 1992.




Ce que l'on conçoit bien s'énonce clairement, et les mots pour le dire arrivent 
aisément.

~ Nicolas Boileau-Despréaux




Vingt fois sur le métier remettez votre ouvrage

~ Nicolas Boileau-Despréaux




Keep your stick on the ice

~ The Red & Green show




Quid quid latine dictum sit, altim videtur.

~ Stéphane Laporte




Audi alteram partem

Qui potest capere capiat 




AVIS DE CONFIDENTIALITÉ

Ce message peut contenir de l'information de nature privilégiée et 
confidentielle. Si vous n'êtes pas le destinataire visé ou croyez l'avoir reçu 
par erreur, nous vous saurions gré d'en aviser l'émetteur. Si ce message vous a 
été transmis par erreur, veuillez le détruire sans en communiquer le contenu à 
d'autres personnes ou le repr

Re: [apple-crop] Late summer drop and fruit size

[David Kollas]

Vincent:

Maybe the dropping left the LARGER fruits on the tree?  I don't know if 
poor pollination results in both
smaller fruit AND more early drop of the smallest, poorly-seeded fruits, but I 
can suppose it is a possible explanation of your observation.

David Kollas
Kollas Orchard, CT

On Jan 13, 2014, at 12:12 PM, Vincent Philion  
wrote:

> Hello, I’m analyzing some data and I have seemingly contradictory results. 
> I’m hoping someone can comment and make sense of this:
> 
> For a number of randomly selected trees, fruit drop was recorded starting 
> late summer until harvest. For each tree, we recorded total fruit drop (and 
> weight), harvested fruit (and weight) and the total (drop + harvest). As I 
> was looking at the data, I noticed average harvested fruit size 
> (weight/number) was related to Total fruits per tree… Nothing strange, until 
> I realized harvested fruit size INCREASED with Total fruit number on tree. As 
> if the fruit dropping left more energy for the remaining fruits to grow?
> 
> I was expecting harvested fruit size to be smaller on trees that had more 
> total fruit, not the other way around.  
> 
> I’m not sure this late natural fruit drop can be compared to very late hand 
> thinning, but does anyone know if fruit size increase can be linked to late 
> thinning (notwithstanding total yield that can go down)?
> 
> Maybe this is “normal”?
> 
> Any comment welcome!
> 
> Vincent
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vincent Philion,M.Sc. agr. Microbiologiste
> Phytopathologiste pomiculture
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Institut de recherche et de développement en agro-environnement
> Research and Development Institute for the Agri-Environment
> 
> www.irda.qc.ca
> 
> Centre de recherche
> 335, Rang des Vingt-Cinq Est
> Saint-Bruno-de-Montarville (Québec) J3V 0G7
> 
> vincent.phil...@irda.qc.ca
> 
> Bureau: 450 653-7368 poste 350
> Cellulaire: 514-623-8275
> Skype: VENTURIA
> Télécopie: 450 653-1927
> 
> Verger expérimental
> 330, Rang des vingt-cinq Est
> Saint-Bruno-de-Montarville (Québec) J3V 4P6
> Téléphone et télécopieur : 450 653-8375
> Local pesticide: 450-653-7608
> 
> 
> Pour nous trouver, cliquer sur le lien:
> Laboratoire
> Verger
> 
> Fiers héritiers du travail des frères Saint-Gabri : 
> http://arboretum8gabrielis.wordpress.com
> 
> Like most of the data I deal with, I'm best described as either "zero 
> inflated Poisson", or "zero inflated negative binomial". Anything but 
> "Normal".
> 
> Un expert est une personne qui a fait toutes les erreurs qui peuvent être 
> faites dans un domaine très étroit.
> ~ Niels Bohr
> 
> C'est pas parce qu'ils sont nombreux à avoir tort qu'ils ont raison…
> ~ Coluche
> 
> To call in the statistician after the experiment is done may be no more than 
> asking him to perform a post-mortem examination: he may be able to say what 
> the experiment died of.
> ~ Sir Ronald Aylmer Fisher
> 
> The plural of anecdote is not data.
> ~ Roger Brinner
> 
> The combination of some data and an aching desire for an answer does not 
> ensure that a reasonable answer can be extracted from a given body of data.
> ~ John Tukey
> 
> Prediction is difficult, especially of the future.
> ~ Mark Twain (also attributed to Niels Bohr and Yogi Berra)
> 
> There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics.
> ~ Mark Twain or Disraeli
> 
> Without deviation from the norm, Progress is not possible.
> ~ Frank Zappa
> 
> If you don’t know where you are going, you will wind up somewhere else.
> ~ Yogi Berra
> 
> You can see a lot just by looking.
> ~ Yogi Berra
> 
> Poor, but proudly at the highest step I'm qualified for.
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Principle
> 
> Inhibiteur de rodomontades depuis 1992.
> 
> Ce que l'on conçoit bien s'énonce clairement, et les mots pour le dire 
> arrivent aisément.
> ~ Nicolas Boileau-Despréaux
> 
> Vingt fois sur le métier remettez votre ouvrage
> ~ Nicolas Boileau-Despréaux
> 
> Keep your stick on the ice
> ~ The Red & Green show
> 
> Quid quid latine dictum sit, altim videtur.
> ~ Stéphane Laporte
> 
> Audi alteram partem
> Qui potest capere capiat
> 
> AVIS DE CONFIDENTIALITÉ
> Ce message peut contenir de l'information de nature privilégiée et 
> confidentielle. Si vous n'êtes pas le destinataire visé ou croyez l'avoir 
> reçu par erreur, nous vous saurions gré d'en aviser l'émetteur. Si ce message 
> vous a été transmis par erreur, veuillez le détruire sans en communiquer le 
> contenu à d'autres personnes ou le reproduire
> 
> ___
> apple-crop mailing list
> apple-crop@virtualorchard.net
> http://virtualorchard.net/mailman/listinfo/apple-crop

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[apple-crop] Late summer drop and fruit size

[Vincent Philion]

Hello, I’m analyzing some data and I have seemingly contradictory results. I’m 
hoping someone can comment and make sense of this:

For a number of randomly selected trees, fruit drop was recorded starting late 
summer until harvest. For each tree, we recorded total fruit drop (and weight), 
harvested fruit (and weight) and the total (drop + harvest). As I was looking 
at the data, I noticed average harvested fruit size (weight/number) was related 
to Total fruits per tree… Nothing strange, until I realized harvested fruit 
size INCREASED with Total fruit number on tree. As if the fruit dropping left 
more energy for the remaining fruits to grow?

I was expecting harvested fruit size to be smaller on trees that had more total 
fruit, not the other way around.

I’m not sure this late natural fruit drop can be compared to very late hand 
thinning, but does anyone know if fruit size increase can be linked to late 
thinning (notwithstanding total yield that can go down)?

Maybe this is “normal”?

Any comment welcome!

Vincent





[http://www.irda.qc.ca/assets/client/img/logo.png]




Vincent Philion,M.Sc. agr. Microbiologiste

Phytopathologiste pomiculture





Institut de recherche et de développement en agro-environnement

Research and Development Institute for the Agri-Environment


www.irda.qc.ca


Centre de recherche

335, Rang des Vingt-Cinq Est

Saint-Bruno-de-Montarville (Québec) J3V 0G7


vincent.phil...@irda.qc.ca


Bureau: 450 653-7368 poste 350

Cellulaire: 514-623-8275

Skype: VENTURIA

Télécopie: 450 653-1927


Verger expérimental

330, Rang des vingt-cinq Est

Saint-Bruno-de-Montarville (Québec) J3V 4P6

Téléphone et télécopieur : 450 653-8375

Local pesticide: 450-653-7608



Pour nous trouver, cliquer sur le lien:

Laboratoire

Verger


Fiers héritiers du travail des frères Saint-Gabri : 
http://arboretum8gabrielis.wordpress.com


Like most of the data I deal with, I'm best described as either "zero inflated 
Poisson", or "zero inflated negative binomial". Anything but "Normal".


Un expert est une personne qui a fait toutes les erreurs qui peuvent être 
faites dans un domaine très étroit.

~ Niels Bohr


C'est pas parce qu'ils sont nombreux à avoir tort qu'ils ont raison…

~ Coluche


To call in the statistician after the experiment is done may be no more than 
asking him to perform a post-mortem examination: he may be able to say what the 
experiment died of.

~ Sir Ronald Aylmer Fisher


The plural of anecdote is not data.

~ Roger Brinner


The combination of some data and an aching desire for an answer does not ensure 
that a reasonable answer can be extracted from a given body of data.

~ John Tukey


Prediction is difficult, especially of the future.

~ Mark Twain (also attributed to Niels Bohr and Yogi Berra)


There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics.

~ Mark Twain or Disraeli


Without deviation from the norm, Progress is not possible.

~ Frank Zappa


If you don’t know where you are going, you will wind up somewhere else.

~ Yogi Berra


You can see a lot just by looking.

~ Yogi Berra


Poor, but proudly at the highest step I'm qualified for.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Principle


Inhibiteur de rodomontades depuis 1992.


Ce que l'on conçoit bien s'énonce clairement, et les mots pour le dire arrivent 
aisément.

~ Nicolas Boileau-Despréaux


Vingt fois sur le métier remettez votre ouvrage

~ Nicolas Boileau-Despréaux


Keep your stick on the ice

~ The Red & Green show


Quid quid latine dictum sit, altim videtur.

~ Stéphane Laporte


Audi alteram partem

Qui potest capere capiat


AVIS DE CONFIDENTIALITÉ

Ce message peut contenir de l'information de nature privilégiée et 
confidentielle. Si vous n'êtes pas le destinataire visé ou croyez l'avoir reçu 
par erreur, nous vous saurions gré d'en aviser l'émetteur. Si ce message vous a 
été transmis par erreur, veuillez le détruire sans en communiquer le contenu à 
d'autres personnes ou le reproduire

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