Re: [apple-crop] honeycrisp prices
I agree Hugh, this might be one of the best places to grow HC as long as we get by spring frosts, summer hail and single digit first fall frost. I see very little of the bitter pit that seems to plague HC growers elsewhere. The two times I've lost HC crops due to spring frost didn't seem to throw them into alternate bearing either. Bill Fleming Montana State University Western Ag Research Center 580 Quast Lane Corvallis, MT 59828 From: apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net [mailto:apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net] On Behalf Of Hugh Thomas Sent: Thursday, January 30, 2014 4:40 PM To: Apple-crop discussion list Subject: Re: [apple-crop] honeycrisp prices Bill, On elevation - I was talking to a big name guy in apple research when I attended the hort show and Honeycrisp Experience in Washington recently. I asked him about our elevation here in Montana (3500') and the effect of temperature drops of 40-50 degrees every night in the summer. His response was, you're are gonna' grow the best Honeycrisp in the western U.S. On Thu, Jan 30, 2014 at 11:03 AM, David A. Rosenberger da...@cornell.edumailto:da...@cornell.edu wrote: We first planted Honeycrisp trees at our research lab in 1995, and we've added more HC in various plantings over the years. From my perspective, we are a bit too far south (90 miles north of Manhattan) to get consistently high quality with Honeycrisp. Some years they color well and taste great, but in many years the quality is only fair (at least compared to the best quality Honeycrisp I have eaten), and color can be unimpressive (to put it kindly!). Over-cropping HC is definitely one way to kill eating quality, but I think that harvesting prematurely is a close second. In some years, Honeycrisp show quite a bit of preharvest drop in our region, perhaps because of water stress created by high temperatures between late July and August. In any case, many folks have difficulty delaying harvest to achieve optimum quality when apples worth a dollar each are dropping in large quantities. Folks in northeastern NY (Champlain Valley) can grow excellent HC and they initially reported that they did not have drop problems. However, significant drop also occurred in that region after an exceptional late-July heat wave several years ago. I'm not certain if anyone has really done the definitive study on how daytime temps, nighttime temps, water stress, rootstocks, crop load, spray programs (including foliar nutrients), and maturity at harvest interact to create either exceptionally good or exceptionally bad Honeycrisp. We all have some general concepts from observations, but it would be nice to know the acceptable ranges of the multiple variables that impact fruit quality (i.e., good-tasting) fruit. Honeycrisp was my favorite apples for a number of years, but eventually I tired of buying crunch at the expense of the more complex flavors that exist in other cultivars. At this point, I'd compare Honeycrisp to a modest quality champagne (some folks always go for the bubbles) whereas better cultivars have the more complex flavor profiles one would expect in an expensive Cabernet. Currently, my personal favorites are freshly harvested SnapDragon, SweeTango, and (perhaps a surprise here) Pixie Crunch. All three of these cultivars have both crunch and complex flavors, especially at harvest when the aroma volatiles that provide much of the flavor complexity are at their best. For a variety of reasons, I doubt that any of these cultivars will ever rise to the level of Honeycrisp in consumer consciousness. First, HC was the first cultivar to stake out totally new territory in the apple market because of its unique texture, and being first has advantages. (Many folks still refer to paper tissues as Kleenex.) Second, good HC hold up well in storage and eating quality of HC can be excellent after 6 months of storage whereas my three favorites noted above all tend to lose some of their flavor volatiles during storage. SnapDragon and SweeTango are still good apples out of storage, just not quite as good as they are at harvest. The managed cultivar status of SweeTango and SnapDragon almost ensure that they will never gain the world-wide visibility that HC has, although those who can find them in stores will hopefully get a more consistent quality apple than has been the case with HC. Finally, most consumers right now seem to want sweet, juicy, crunch and are less selective when it comes to the nuances of good apple flavors. Thus, I would guess that those of us who have experienced top-quality fruit and can differentiate between exceptional and good fruit will always be a minority in the market place. Now, if someone can come up with an easy-to-grow cultivar that has both the HC crunch factor AND complex aroma volatiles that persist through 6 to 10 months of CA storage, that will be the apple that will ultimately displace HC in the
Re: [apple-crop] honeycrisp prices
Bill, I know I'm rollin' the dice but as long as the trees stay alive I'm willing to loose from time to time with weather On Fri, Jan 31, 2014 at 7:10 AM, Fleming, William w...@exchange.montana.eduwrote: I agree Hugh, this might be one of the best places to grow HC as long as we get by spring frosts, summer hail and single digit first fall frost. I see very little of the bitter pit that seems to plague HC growers elsewhere. The two times I've lost HC crops due to spring frost didn't seem to throw them into alternate bearing either. *Bill Fleming* *Montana State University* *Western Ag Research Center* *580 Quast Lane* *Corvallis, MT 59828* *From:* apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net [mailto: apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net] *On Behalf Of *Hugh Thomas *Sent:* Thursday, January 30, 2014 4:40 PM *To:* Apple-crop discussion list *Subject:* Re: [apple-crop] honeycrisp prices Bill, On elevation - I was talking to a big name guy in apple research when I attended the hort show and Honeycrisp Experience in Washington recently. I asked him about our elevation here in Montana (3500') and the effect of temperature drops of 40-50 degrees every night in the summer. His response was, you're are gonna' grow the best Honeycrisp in the western U.S. On Thu, Jan 30, 2014 at 11:03 AM, David A. Rosenberger da...@cornell.edu wrote: We first planted Honeycrisp trees at our research lab in 1995, and we've added more HC in various plantings over the years. From my perspective, we are a bit too far south (90 miles north of Manhattan) to get consistently high quality with Honeycrisp. Some years they color well and taste great, but in many years the quality is only fair (at least compared to the best quality Honeycrisp I have eaten), and color can be unimpressive (to put it kindly!). Over-cropping HC is definitely one way to kill eating quality, but I think that harvesting prematurely is a close second. In some years, Honeycrisp show quite a bit of preharvest drop in our region, perhaps because of water stress created by high temperatures between late July and August. In any case, many folks have difficulty delaying harvest to achieve optimum quality when apples worth a dollar each are dropping in large quantities. Folks in northeastern NY (Champlain Valley) can grow excellent HC and they initially reported that they did not have drop problems. However, significant drop also occurred in that region after an exceptional late-July heat wave several years ago. I'm not certain if anyone has really done the definitive study on how daytime temps, nighttime temps, water stress, rootstocks, crop load, spray programs (including foliar nutrients), and maturity at harvest interact to create either exceptionally good or exceptionally bad Honeycrisp. We all have some general concepts from observations, but it would be nice to know the acceptable ranges of the multiple variables that impact fruit quality (i.e., good-tasting) fruit. Honeycrisp was my favorite apples for a number of years, but eventually I tired of buying crunch at the expense of the more complex flavors that exist in other cultivars. At this point, I'd compare Honeycrisp to a modest quality champagne (some folks always go for the bubbles) whereas better cultivars have the more complex flavor profiles one would expect in an expensive Cabernet. Currently, my personal favorites are freshly harvested SnapDragon, SweeTango, and (perhaps a surprise here) Pixie Crunch. All three of these cultivars have both crunch and complex flavors, especially at harvest when the aroma volatiles that provide much of the flavor complexity are at their best. For a variety of reasons, I doubt that any of these cultivars will ever rise to the level of Honeycrisp in consumer consciousness. First, HC was the first cultivar to stake out totally new territory in the apple market because of its unique texture, and being first has advantages. (Many folks still refer to paper tissues as Kleenex.) Second, good HC hold up well in storage and eating quality of HC can be excellent after 6 months of storage whereas my three favorites noted above all tend to lose some of their flavor volatiles during storage. SnapDragon and SweeTango are still good apples out of storage, just not quite as good as they are at harvest. The managed cultivar status of SweeTango and SnapDragon almost ensure that they will never gain the world-wide visibility that HC has, although those who can find them in stores will hopefully get a more consistent quality apple than has been the case with HC. Finally, most consumers right now seem to want sweet, juicy, crunch and are less selective when it comes to the nuances of good apple flavors. Thus, I would guess that those of us who have experienced top-quality fruit and can differentiate between exceptional and good fruit will always be a minority in the market place.
