Re: [arch-general] Installing Archlinux alongside Ubuntu on a Windows 8 UEFI laptop

[Mike Cloaked]

On Thu, May 1, 2014 at 11:18 PM, Daniel Micay  wrote:

> On 01/05/14 06:15 PM, Alan E. Davis wrote:
> > Ubuntu's kernel is on the / partition.  Would I move it to the ESP
> > partition, in that case?
> >
> > And I will mount that partition on /mnt/boot ?
> >
> > I have never used gummiboot.  Since the Arch system is already to go, but
> > not yet with a boot management setup, I should manually move that kernel
> to
> > the ESP partition as well?
> >
> > Alan Davis
>
> Yes, you should mount the ESP partition as /boot so the kernels get
> installed there. Then install gummiboot and set up entries for Arch and
> Ubuntu.
>
>
The approach mentioned above should work. An alternative is to have the ESP
mounted as, say /boot/efi (which is a vfat partition) and then the (vfat)
ESP becomes /boot/efi/EFI/ which then contains the windows efi boot files,
and you can then if you wish install refind in a directory such as
/boot/efi/EFI/refind/ - and it is in principle also possible to have more
than one boot manager in that directory so that you can choose which boot
manager to use, and each can then boot all of your installed operating
systems via UEFI.

If so then it is also possible to have /boot as either a separate ext4
partition, or a subdirectory of the root partition, also as ext4 (thereby
getting the advantage of a journaled filesystem). Then the kernel(s) can be
in /boot/ and using refind the refind efi binary can still read the ext4
/boot/* files for the kernel(s) and initrd(s) since refind has drivers that
can read ext4 files.  The details are in the author's refind web pages (
http://www.rodsbooks.com/refind/ ).

It is possible to either let refind automatically discover all the
available operating systems that you have set up or you can configure the
config files with specific stanzas to boot individual OSes - and each
becomes a nice icon on the graphical boot screen. You can select which is
the default system to boot, but can also intercept the boot to choose a
non-default system.

Of course you have the choice to use different boot managers, and gummiboot
and grub will in principle be able to boot all three OSes once set up.

-- 
mike c

Re: [arch-general] Installing Archlinux alongside Ubuntu on a Windows 8 UEFI laptop

[Alan E. Davis]

Then I stand corrected.  Thank you for pointing this out.

FOr me, the simpler the better.   I'll try to deal with it, though.

Alan


On Thu, May 1, 2014 at 5:19 PM, Daniel Micay  wrote:

> On 01/05/14 08:06 PM, Alan E. Davis wrote:
> > I don't understand what is the entry, or fallback entry, or "run the
> > entry."   I'm sorry.
> >
> > I'm going to try again later.  In fact, I may take the undesireable step
> of
> > installing from Manjaro or whatever is the shortcut way to install Arch
> > Linux these days.
> >
> > On the one hand, I don't care to learn about what's Micro$oft's latest
> > tortuous trick it has played on the users; and on the other hand, I do
> > value to learn the nuts and bolts of GNU/Linux.
> >
> > Thank you very much.  I am willing to give it one more try.  I might even
> > try to install grub in a partition, as apparently is what Ubuntu has
> > done.
>
> (U)EFI was created by Intel replace legacy BIOS, it had nothing to do
> with Microsoft. AFAIK, OS X adopted it long before Windows. I'm not sure
> why you keep mentioning Microsoft over and over.
>
> Arch has great UEFI support and it results in a significant improvement
> in boot time compared to legacy BIOS booting. The gummiboot loader is a
> huge simplication over grub, so there's not much to complain about there
> either.
>
>

Re: [arch-general] Installing Archlinux alongside Ubuntu on a Windows 8 UEFI laptop

[Daniel Micay]

On 01/05/14 08:06 PM, Alan E. Davis wrote:
> I don't understand what is the entry, or fallback entry, or "run the
> entry."   I'm sorry.
> 
> I'm going to try again later.  In fact, I may take the undesireable step of
> installing from Manjaro or whatever is the shortcut way to install Arch
> Linux these days.
> 
> On the one hand, I don't care to learn about what's Micro$oft's latest
> tortuous trick it has played on the users; and on the other hand, I do
> value to learn the nuts and bolts of GNU/Linux.
> 
> Thank you very much.  I am willing to give it one more try.  I might even
> try to install grub in a partition, as apparently is what Ubuntu has
> done.

(U)EFI was created by Intel replace legacy BIOS, it had nothing to do
with Microsoft. AFAIK, OS X adopted it long before Windows. I'm not sure
why you keep mentioning Microsoft over and over.

Arch has great UEFI support and it results in a significant improvement
in boot time compared to legacy BIOS booting. The gummiboot loader is a
huge simplication over grub, so there's not much to complain about there
either.



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Re: [arch-general] Installing Archlinux alongside Ubuntu on a Windows 8 UEFI laptop

[Alan E. Davis]

I don't understand what is the entry, or fallback entry, or "run the
entry."   I'm sorry.

I'm going to try again later.  In fact, I may take the undesireable step of
installing from Manjaro or whatever is the shortcut way to install Arch
Linux these days.

On the one hand, I don't care to learn about what's Micro$oft's latest
tortuous trick it has played on the users; and on the other hand, I do
value to learn the nuts and bolts of GNU/Linux.

Thank you very much.  I am willing to give it one more try.  I might even
try to install grub in a partition, as apparently is what Ubuntu has
done.

Thank you again,

Alan Davis


On Thu, May 1, 2014 at 4:59 PM, Daniel Micay  wrote:

> On 01/05/14 07:40 PM, Alan E. Davis wrote:
> > I took a chance, and nothing happened.   I installed gummiboot on /boot,
> > where the kernel was.  But I didn't move the ubuntu kernel over.
> >
> > In the end, Windows still booted, and I was able to get back to a boot
> menu
> > from there, and boot ubuntu.  Not Arch.  Yet.
> >
> > Thank you for now.
> >
> > Alan
>
> You need to explicitly run the entry (if you had the EFI stuff mounted)
> or the fallback entry (if you didn't).
>
>

Re: [arch-general] Installing Archlinux alongside Ubuntu on a Windows 8 UEFI laptop

[Daniel Micay]

On 01/05/14 07:40 PM, Alan E. Davis wrote:
> I took a chance, and nothing happened.   I installed gummiboot on /boot,
> where the kernel was.  But I didn't move the ubuntu kernel over.
> 
> In the end, Windows still booted, and I was able to get back to a boot menu
> from there, and boot ubuntu.  Not Arch.  Yet.
> 
> Thank you for now.
> 
> Alan

You need to explicitly run the entry (if you had the EFI stuff mounted)
or the fallback entry (if you didn't).



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Re: [arch-general] Installing Archlinux alongside Ubuntu on a Windows 8 UEFI laptop

[Alan E. Davis]

I took a chance, and nothing happened.   I installed gummiboot on /boot,
where the kernel was.  But I didn't move the ubuntu kernel over.

In the end, Windows still booted, and I was able to get back to a boot menu
from there, and boot ubuntu.  Not Arch.  Yet.

Thank you for now.

Alan




On Thu, May 1, 2014 at 4:07 PM, Daniel Micay  wrote:

> On 01/05/14 06:56 PM, Mark Lee wrote:
> >
> > Salutations,
> >
> > You need to boot into UEFI mode. So when you're loading the Arch Linux
> > ISO, make sure you select to boot into UEFI mode (usually an option in
> > the boot menu)
> >
> > Regards,
> > Mark
>
> You can do this without being booted into EFI mode, since gummiboot will
> install itself as /boot/EFI/Boot/BOOTX64.EFI and then you can set it up
> properly after the first boot.
>
> I had to do it this way because my hardware (T530) ran into the EFISTUB
> bug on old kernel versions, including the latest Arch ISO. It's
> completely fixed now at least on this hardware... no issues with dozens
> of 3.14.1/3.14.2 builds or the latest LTS kernel.
>
>

Re: [arch-general] Installing Archlinux alongside Ubuntu on a Windows 8 UEFI laptop

[Alan E. Davis]

Running gdisk, this message: Found valid GPT with protective MBR: using GPT.


On Thu, May 1, 2014 at 4:06 PM, Alan E. Davis  wrote:

> I saw no options.  The iso image on the USB drive booted without any
> problem or selection.  DOes it matter that this is a May 1 2014
> installation iso?
>
> Alan
>
>
> On Thu, May 1, 2014 at 3:56 PM, Mark Lee  wrote:
>
>> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
>> Hash: SHA256
>>
>> On 05/01/2014 06:54 PM, Alan E. Davis wrote:
>> > I am now walking through the install step by step.   Initially, it is
>> > suggested (in the Beginner's Guide) to test whether efivars is mounted.
>>  I
>> > ran
>> >
>> > mount -t efivarfs efivarfs /sys/firmware/efi/efivars
>> >
>> > And got this message:
>> >
>> > mount: mount point /sys.efivars does not exist.
>> >
>> > I don't knolw whether this is good or bad news.
>> >  I tested for UEFI in Windows.  The result was positive.
>> >
>> > This is kind of what I mean, that there are so
>> > many shades and variations.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > On Thu, May 1, 2014 at 3:45 PM, Alan E. Davis 
>> wrote:
>> >
>> >> What is the "EFISTUB  bug"?
>> >>
>> >> Alan
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> On Thu, May 1, 2014 at 3:42 PM, Alan E. Davis 
>> wrote:
>> >>
>> >>> I'm staying tuned.
>> >>>
>> >>> Alan
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> On Thu, May 1, 2014 at 3:41 PM, Delcypher 
>> wrote:
>> >>>
>>  On 1 May 2014 23:35, Daniel Micay  wrote:
>> > On 01/05/14 06:28 PM, Alan E. Davis wrote:
>> >> After already chrooting, during the Arch installation process, I
>> saw
>>  some
>> >> information that suggested to use a command, as follows:
>> >>
>> >> mount -t efivarfs efivarfs /sys/firmware/efi/efivars
>> >
>> > You don't need to do this, so I'm not sure where you're getting this
>> > information. Adding an EFI entry is optional since it already
>> installs
>> > itself as the fallback loader too. You can install an EFI loader
>>  without
>> > being booted via EFI.
>> 
>>  It's at https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/UEFI#Mount_efivarfs
>> 
>> > It's certainly a lot simpler than using grub... you don't seem to
>> want
>> > it to work so obviously it's not going to work, since you're going
>> out
>> > of your way to ignore the instructions.
>> 
>>  It is unless you're one of the people effected by the EFISTUB bug
>> like
>>  myself. So I'm currently using GRUB2.
>> 
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>
>> Salutations,
>>
>> You need to boot into UEFI mode. So when you're loading the Arch Linux
>> ISO, make sure you select to boot into UEFI mode (usually an option in
>> the boot menu)
>>
>> Regards,
>> Mark
>> -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
>> Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux)
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>> =YCQj
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>>
>
>

Re: [arch-general] Installing Archlinux alongside Ubuntu on a Windows 8 UEFI laptop

[Daniel Micay]

On 01/05/14 06:56 PM, Mark Lee wrote:
>
> Salutations,
> 
> You need to boot into UEFI mode. So when you're loading the Arch Linux
> ISO, make sure you select to boot into UEFI mode (usually an option in
> the boot menu)
> 
> Regards,
> Mark

You can do this without being booted into EFI mode, since gummiboot will
install itself as /boot/EFI/Boot/BOOTX64.EFI and then you can set it up
properly after the first boot.

I had to do it this way because my hardware (T530) ran into the EFISTUB
bug on old kernel versions, including the latest Arch ISO. It's
completely fixed now at least on this hardware... no issues with dozens
of 3.14.1/3.14.2 builds or the latest LTS kernel.



signature.asc
Description: OpenPGP digital signature

Re: [arch-general] Installing Archlinux alongside Ubuntu on a Windows 8 UEFI laptop

[Alan E. Davis]

I saw no options.  The iso image on the USB drive booted without any
problem or selection.  DOes it matter that this is a May 1 2014
installation iso?

Alan


On Thu, May 1, 2014 at 3:56 PM, Mark Lee  wrote:

> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
> Hash: SHA256
>
> On 05/01/2014 06:54 PM, Alan E. Davis wrote:
> > I am now walking through the install step by step.   Initially, it is
> > suggested (in the Beginner's Guide) to test whether efivars is mounted.
>  I
> > ran
> >
> > mount -t efivarfs efivarfs /sys/firmware/efi/efivars
> >
> > And got this message:
> >
> > mount: mount point /sys.efivars does not exist.
> >
> > I don't knolw whether this is good or bad news.
> >  I tested for UEFI in Windows.  The result was positive.
> >
> > This is kind of what I mean, that there are so
> > many shades and variations.
> >
> >
> >
> > On Thu, May 1, 2014 at 3:45 PM, Alan E. Davis  wrote:
> >
> >> What is the "EFISTUB  bug"?
> >>
> >> Alan
> >>
> >>
> >> On Thu, May 1, 2014 at 3:42 PM, Alan E. Davis 
> wrote:
> >>
> >>> I'm staying tuned.
> >>>
> >>> Alan
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On Thu, May 1, 2014 at 3:41 PM, Delcypher  wrote:
> >>>
>  On 1 May 2014 23:35, Daniel Micay  wrote:
> > On 01/05/14 06:28 PM, Alan E. Davis wrote:
> >> After already chrooting, during the Arch installation process, I saw
>  some
> >> information that suggested to use a command, as follows:
> >>
> >> mount -t efivarfs efivarfs /sys/firmware/efi/efivars
> >
> > You don't need to do this, so I'm not sure where you're getting this
> > information. Adding an EFI entry is optional since it already
> installs
> > itself as the fallback loader too. You can install an EFI loader
>  without
> > being booted via EFI.
> 
>  It's at https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/UEFI#Mount_efivarfs
> 
> > It's certainly a lot simpler than using grub... you don't seem to
> want
> > it to work so obviously it's not going to work, since you're going
> out
> > of your way to ignore the instructions.
> 
>  It is unless you're one of the people effected by the EFISTUB bug like
>  myself. So I'm currently using GRUB2.
> 
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> Salutations,
>
> You need to boot into UEFI mode. So when you're loading the Arch Linux
> ISO, make sure you select to boot into UEFI mode (usually an option in
> the boot menu)
>
> Regards,
> Mark
> -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
> Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux)
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> =YCQj
> -END PGP SIGNATURE-
>

Re: [arch-general] Installing Archlinux alongside Ubuntu on a Windows 8 UEFI laptop

[Mark Lee]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA256

On 05/01/2014 06:54 PM, Alan E. Davis wrote:
> I am now walking through the install step by step.   Initially, it is
> suggested (in the Beginner's Guide) to test whether efivars is mounted.  I
> ran
> 
> mount -t efivarfs efivarfs /sys/firmware/efi/efivars
> 
> And got this message:
> 
> mount: mount point /sys.efivars does not exist.
> 
> I don't knolw whether this is good or bad news.
>  I tested for UEFI in Windows.  The result was positive.
> 
> This is kind of what I mean, that there are so
> many shades and variations.
> 
> 
> 
> On Thu, May 1, 2014 at 3:45 PM, Alan E. Davis  wrote:
> 
>> What is the "EFISTUB  bug"?
>>
>> Alan
>>
>>
>> On Thu, May 1, 2014 at 3:42 PM, Alan E. Davis  wrote:
>>
>>> I'm staying tuned.
>>>
>>> Alan
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, May 1, 2014 at 3:41 PM, Delcypher  wrote:
>>>
 On 1 May 2014 23:35, Daniel Micay  wrote:
> On 01/05/14 06:28 PM, Alan E. Davis wrote:
>> After already chrooting, during the Arch installation process, I saw
 some
>> information that suggested to use a command, as follows:
>>
>> mount -t efivarfs efivarfs /sys/firmware/efi/efivars
>
> You don't need to do this, so I'm not sure where you're getting this
> information. Adding an EFI entry is optional since it already installs
> itself as the fallback loader too. You can install an EFI loader
 without
> being booted via EFI.

 It's at https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/UEFI#Mount_efivarfs

> It's certainly a lot simpler than using grub... you don't seem to want
> it to work so obviously it's not going to work, since you're going out
> of your way to ignore the instructions.

 It is unless you're one of the people effected by the EFISTUB bug like
 myself. So I'm currently using GRUB2.

>>>
>>>
>>
Salutations,

You need to boot into UEFI mode. So when you're loading the Arch Linux
ISO, make sure you select to boot into UEFI mode (usually an option in
the boot menu)

Regards,
Mark
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Re: [arch-general] Installing Archlinux alongside Ubuntu on a Windows 8 UEFI laptop

[Alan E. Davis]

I wonder what Ubuntu is doing, then.  Whether it will be incompatible.

A


On Thu, May 1, 2014 at 3:54 PM, Alan E. Davis  wrote:

> I am now walking through the install step by step.   Initially, it is
> suggested (in the Beginner's Guide) to test whether efivars is mounted.  I
> ran
>
> mount -t efivarfs efivarfs /sys/firmware/efi/efivars
>
> And got this message:
>
> mount: mount point /sys.efivars does not exist.
>
> I don't knolw whether this is good or bad news.
>  I tested for UEFI in Windows.  The result was positive.
>
>
> This is kind of what I mean, that there are so
> many shades and variations.
>
>
>
> On Thu, May 1, 2014 at 3:45 PM, Alan E. Davis  wrote:
>
>> What is the "EFISTUB  bug"?
>>
>> Alan
>>
>>
>> On Thu, May 1, 2014 at 3:42 PM, Alan E. Davis  wrote:
>>
>>> I'm staying tuned.
>>>
>>> Alan
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, May 1, 2014 at 3:41 PM, Delcypher  wrote:
>>>
 On 1 May 2014 23:35, Daniel Micay  wrote:
 > On 01/05/14 06:28 PM, Alan E. Davis wrote:
 >> After already chrooting, during the Arch installation process, I saw
 some
 >> information that suggested to use a command, as follows:
 >>
 >> mount -t efivarfs efivarfs /sys/firmware/efi/efivars
 >
 > You don't need to do this, so I'm not sure where you're getting this
 > information. Adding an EFI entry is optional since it already installs
 > itself as the fallback loader too. You can install an EFI loader
 without
 > being booted via EFI.

 It's at https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/UEFI#Mount_efivarfs

 > It's certainly a lot simpler than using grub... you don't seem to want
 > it to work so obviously it's not going to work, since you're going out
 > of your way to ignore the instructions.

 It is unless you're one of the people effected by the EFISTUB bug like
 myself. So I'm currently using GRUB2.

>>>
>>>
>>
>

Re: [arch-general] Installing Archlinux alongside Ubuntu on a Windows 8 UEFI laptop

[Alan E. Davis]

I am now walking through the install step by step.   Initially, it is
suggested (in the Beginner's Guide) to test whether efivars is mounted.  I
ran

mount -t efivarfs efivarfs /sys/firmware/efi/efivars

And got this message:

mount: mount point /sys.efivars does not exist.

I don't knolw whether this is good or bad news.
 I tested for UEFI in Windows.  The result was positive.

This is kind of what I mean, that there are so
many shades and variations.



On Thu, May 1, 2014 at 3:45 PM, Alan E. Davis  wrote:

> What is the "EFISTUB  bug"?
>
> Alan
>
>
> On Thu, May 1, 2014 at 3:42 PM, Alan E. Davis  wrote:
>
>> I'm staying tuned.
>>
>> Alan
>>
>>
>> On Thu, May 1, 2014 at 3:41 PM, Delcypher  wrote:
>>
>>> On 1 May 2014 23:35, Daniel Micay  wrote:
>>> > On 01/05/14 06:28 PM, Alan E. Davis wrote:
>>> >> After already chrooting, during the Arch installation process, I saw
>>> some
>>> >> information that suggested to use a command, as follows:
>>> >>
>>> >> mount -t efivarfs efivarfs /sys/firmware/efi/efivars
>>> >
>>> > You don't need to do this, so I'm not sure where you're getting this
>>> > information. Adding an EFI entry is optional since it already installs
>>> > itself as the fallback loader too. You can install an EFI loader
>>> without
>>> > being booted via EFI.
>>>
>>> It's at https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/UEFI#Mount_efivarfs
>>>
>>> > It's certainly a lot simpler than using grub... you don't seem to want
>>> > it to work so obviously it's not going to work, since you're going out
>>> > of your way to ignore the instructions.
>>>
>>> It is unless you're one of the people effected by the EFISTUB bug like
>>> myself. So I'm currently using GRUB2.
>>>
>>
>>
>

Re: [arch-general] Installing Archlinux alongside Ubuntu on a Windows 8 UEFI laptop

[Daniel Micay]

On 01/05/14 06:45 PM, Alan E. Davis wrote:
> What is the "EFISTUB  bug"?
> 
> Alan

The kernel's EFISTUB booting support is broken on some hardware,
possibly due to buggy firmware requiring workarounds or perhaps because
of remaining bugs in the kernel. It does work on most hardware though,
especially now that several bugs have been fixed.



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Re: [arch-general] Installing Archlinux alongside Ubuntu on a Windows 8 UEFI laptop

[Daniel Micay]

On 01/05/14 06:41 PM, Delcypher wrote:
> On 1 May 2014 23:35, Daniel Micay  wrote:
>> On 01/05/14 06:28 PM, Alan E. Davis wrote:
>>> After already chrooting, during the Arch installation process, I saw some
>>> information that suggested to use a command, as follows:
>>>
>>> mount -t efivarfs efivarfs /sys/firmware/efi/efivars
>>
>> You don't need to do this, so I'm not sure where you're getting this
>> information. Adding an EFI entry is optional since it already installs
>> itself as the fallback loader too. You can install an EFI loader without
>> being booted via EFI.
> 
> It's at https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/UEFI#Mount_efivarfs

Nothing there says it's necessary to install gummiboot. You can install
gummiboot with pacman -S gummiboot && gummiboot install without being in
EFI mode at all. You *do not* need the efivars partition mounted, since
it will install itself as the fallback loader. It will take care of
installing itself as an entry automatically too if it's mounted, but you
can let it do that later or just not do it at all.



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Re: [arch-general] Installing Archlinux alongside Ubuntu on a Windows 8 UEFI laptop

[Alan E. Davis]

What is the "EFISTUB  bug"?

Alan


On Thu, May 1, 2014 at 3:42 PM, Alan E. Davis  wrote:

> I'm staying tuned.
>
> Alan
>
>
> On Thu, May 1, 2014 at 3:41 PM, Delcypher  wrote:
>
>> On 1 May 2014 23:35, Daniel Micay  wrote:
>> > On 01/05/14 06:28 PM, Alan E. Davis wrote:
>> >> After already chrooting, during the Arch installation process, I saw
>> some
>> >> information that suggested to use a command, as follows:
>> >>
>> >> mount -t efivarfs efivarfs /sys/firmware/efi/efivars
>> >
>> > You don't need to do this, so I'm not sure where you're getting this
>> > information. Adding an EFI entry is optional since it already installs
>> > itself as the fallback loader too. You can install an EFI loader without
>> > being booted via EFI.
>>
>> It's at https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/UEFI#Mount_efivarfs
>>
>> > It's certainly a lot simpler than using grub... you don't seem to want
>> > it to work so obviously it's not going to work, since you're going out
>> > of your way to ignore the instructions.
>>
>> It is unless you're one of the people effected by the EFISTUB bug like
>> myself. So I'm currently using GRUB2.
>>
>
>

Re: [arch-general] Installing Archlinux alongside Ubuntu on a Windows 8 UEFI laptop

[Alan E. Davis]

I'm staying tuned.

Alan


On Thu, May 1, 2014 at 3:41 PM, Delcypher  wrote:

> On 1 May 2014 23:35, Daniel Micay  wrote:
> > On 01/05/14 06:28 PM, Alan E. Davis wrote:
> >> After already chrooting, during the Arch installation process, I saw
> some
> >> information that suggested to use a command, as follows:
> >>
> >> mount -t efivarfs efivarfs /sys/firmware/efi/efivars
> >
> > You don't need to do this, so I'm not sure where you're getting this
> > information. Adding an EFI entry is optional since it already installs
> > itself as the fallback loader too. You can install an EFI loader without
> > being booted via EFI.
>
> It's at https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/UEFI#Mount_efivarfs
>
> > It's certainly a lot simpler than using grub... you don't seem to want
> > it to work so obviously it's not going to work, since you're going out
> > of your way to ignore the instructions.
>
> It is unless you're one of the people effected by the EFISTUB bug like
> myself. So I'm currently using GRUB2.
>

Re: [arch-general] Installing Archlinux alongside Ubuntu on a Windows 8 UEFI laptop

[Delcypher]

On 1 May 2014 23:35, Daniel Micay  wrote:
> On 01/05/14 06:28 PM, Alan E. Davis wrote:
>> After already chrooting, during the Arch installation process, I saw some
>> information that suggested to use a command, as follows:
>>
>> mount -t efivarfs efivarfs /sys/firmware/efi/efivars
>
> You don't need to do this, so I'm not sure where you're getting this
> information. Adding an EFI entry is optional since it already installs
> itself as the fallback loader too. You can install an EFI loader without
> being booted via EFI.

It's at https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/UEFI#Mount_efivarfs

> It's certainly a lot simpler than using grub... you don't seem to want
> it to work so obviously it's not going to work, since you're going out
> of your way to ignore the instructions.

It is unless you're one of the people effected by the EFISTUB bug like
myself. So I'm currently using GRUB2.

Re: [arch-general] Installing Archlinux alongside Ubuntu on a Windows 8 UEFI laptop

[Daniel Micay]

On 01/05/14 06:28 PM, Alan E. Davis wrote:
> After already chrooting, during the Arch installation process, I saw some
> information that suggested to use a command, as follows:
> 
> mount -t efivarfs efivarfs /sys/firmware/efi/efivars

You don't need to do this, so I'm not sure where you're getting this
information. Adding an EFI entry is optional since it already installs
itself as the fallback loader too. You can install an EFI loader without
being booted via EFI.

> It was ineffective, so after noticing a note that it should be done inside
> and outside of the chroot environment, I tried it outside too.  No error
> issued, however, nothing interesting happened.  That's when I backed out.
> 
> I can walk back through  it to that point.

You don't need to do this. Just do exactly what I said (install
gummiboot, tell gummiboot to install itself as the loader) and it will
work fine...

> This is so massively complicated.  It must have been the intention of the
> originators of this system, to complicate the lives of the innocents.  It
> makes me even more angry than I have been for the last 25 years.
> 
> To make it more complicated, there is no single such structure, but various
> shades and variations.

It's certainly a lot simpler than using grub... you don't seem to want
it to work so obviously it's not going to work, since you're going out
of your way to ignore the instructions.



signature.asc
Description: OpenPGP digital signature

Re: [arch-general] Installing Archlinux alongside Ubuntu on a Windows 8 UEFI laptop

[Daniel Micay]

On 01/05/14 06:31 PM, Alan E. Davis wrote:
> Do I need to install a special kernel?
> 
> Thank you for the advice.
> 
> Alan

No, you need to install gummiboot. That's all.



signature.asc
Description: OpenPGP digital signature

Re: [arch-general] Installing Archlinux alongside Ubuntu on a Windows 8 UEFI laptop

[Alan E. Davis]

Do I need to install a special kernel?

Thank you for the advice.

Alan


On Thu, May 1, 2014 at 3:30 PM, Daniel Micay  wrote:

> On 01/05/14 06:20 PM, Alan E. Davis wrote:
> > I see another level of complexity here, in a statement on a page about
> > Gummiboot on the wiki:
> >
> > * Warning: *Gummiboot simply provides a boot menu for EFISTUB kernels. In
> > case you have issues booting EFISTUB kernels like in
> > FS#33745,
> > you should use a boot loader which does not use EFISTUB, like
> > GRUB,
> > Syslinux  or
> > ELILO
> > .
> >
> > Would grub work, using this, or a similar, approach?
>
> gummiboot is far less complex than grub, so I'm not sure where you're
> getting that from. The kernel's EFISTUB handling doesn't work on all
> hardware, but it will most likely work fine for you. The whole point of
> EFISTUB is that it's simpler/faster than the legacy way of doing it.
>
>

Re: [arch-general] Installing Archlinux alongside Ubuntu on a Windows 8 UEFI laptop

[Daniel Micay]

On 01/05/14 06:20 PM, Alan E. Davis wrote:
> I see another level of complexity here, in a statement on a page about
> Gummiboot on the wiki:
> 
> * Warning: *Gummiboot simply provides a boot menu for EFISTUB kernels. In
> case you have issues booting EFISTUB kernels like in
> FS#33745,
> you should use a boot loader which does not use EFISTUB, like
> GRUB,
> Syslinux  or
> ELILO
> .
> 
> Would grub work, using this, or a similar, approach?

gummiboot is far less complex than grub, so I'm not sure where you're
getting that from. The kernel's EFISTUB handling doesn't work on all
hardware, but it will most likely work fine for you. The whole point of
EFISTUB is that it's simpler/faster than the legacy way of doing it.



signature.asc
Description: OpenPGP digital signature

Re: [arch-general] Installing Archlinux alongside Ubuntu on a Windows 8 UEFI laptop

[Alan E. Davis]

After already chrooting, during the Arch installation process, I saw some
information that suggested to use a command, as follows:

mount -t efivarfs efivarfs /sys/firmware/efi/efivars

It was ineffective, so after noticing a note that it should be done inside
and outside of the chroot environment, I tried it outside too.  No error
issued, however, nothing interesting happened.  That's when I backed out.

I can walk back through  it to that point.

This is so massively complicated.  It must have been the intention of the
originators of this system, to complicate the lives of the innocents.  It
makes me even more angry than I have been for the last 25 years.

To make it more complicated, there is no single such structure, but various
shades and variations.

Thank you.  I will try to get to that point again.

I am using May 1, 2014 installation iso.  Wow.

Alan


On Thu, May 1, 2014 at 3:20 PM, Alan E. Davis  wrote:

> I see another level of complexity here, in a statement on a page about
> Gummiboot on the wiki:
>
> * Warning: *Gummiboot simply provides a boot menu for EFISTUB kernels. In
> case you have issues booting EFISTUB kernels like in 
> FS#33745,
> you should use a boot loader which does not use EFISTUB, like 
> GRUB,
> Syslinux  or 
> ELILO
> .
>
> Would grub work, using this, or a similar, approach?
>
>
> On Thu, May 1, 2014 at 3:15 PM, Alan E. Davis  wrote:
>
>> Ubuntu's kernel is on the / partition.  Would I move it to the ESP
>> partition, in that case?
>>
>> And I will mount that partition on /mnt/boot ?
>>
>> I have never used gummiboot.  Since the Arch system is already to go, but
>> not yet with a boot management setup, I should manually move that kernel to
>> the ESP partition as well?
>>
>> Alan Davis
>>
>>
>> On Thu, May 1, 2014 at 3:06 PM, Daniel Micay wrote:
>>
>>> On 01/05/14 06:02 PM, Alan E. Davis wrote:
>>> > This looks interesting, and I am tempted to walk into the deep water.
>>>  It
>>> > raises some questions.
>>> >
>>> > Will gummiboot or refind also find the Ubuntu partition?
>>>
>>> You should use the ESP (EFI system partition) to store all of the
>>> kernels. The loader (gummiboot) will find the Windows loader along with
>>> any kernels on that partition. You really aren't going to want separate
>>> boot partitions.
>>>
>>> > The original partition structure of the machine there were four or five
>>> > partitions, and another one popped up in the higher end of the disk.
>>> I
>>> > stumbled into the install, with the Ubuntu installer, and ended up with
>>> > four linux partitions in addition to the Windoze partitions.  At some
>>> point
>>> > I used gparted to resize, and this might have been the step that
>>> botched
>>> > the structure.  But in any event, I have three Linux partitions of 50G
>>> > each, and a swap partition.  Ubuntu is sitting in one of those
>>> partitions.
>>> >
>>> > I have no idea what is an EFI partition.  I have seen instructions,
>>> > presumably for those who are wiping the Windows and starting from
>>> scratch,
>>> > to make an EFI partition.
>>> >
>>> > I finally realized why there are so many partitions, and learned to use
>>> > gdisk when walking through the Archlinux install.
>>> >
>>> > Here is a some information from the gdisk listing:
>>> >
>>> >Nbr   Size Code   Name
>>> >   -++--+-
>>> >  1   1000.0 MiB   2700
>>> >  2   260.0 MiBEF00 EFI system partition
>>> >  3   128.0 MiB0C01Microsoft reserved part
>>> >  4   49.6 GiB 0700  Basic data partition
>>> >  5   9.7 GiB  2700Lenovo (?recovery?)
>>> >  6   10.0 GiB 8200   Linux SWAP
>>> >  7   49.4 GiB 8300   Archlinux /
>>> >  8   58.8 GiB 8300   /home
>>> >  9   1024.0 KiB   EF02 "bios_grub" (Ubuntu?)
>>> > 10   59.8 GiB 8300   UBUNTU /
>>>
>>> It's the one marked EFI system partition (ESP).
>>>
>>>
>>
>

Re: [arch-general] Installing Archlinux alongside Ubuntu on a Windows 8 UEFI laptop

[Alan E. Davis]

I see another level of complexity here, in a statement on a page about
Gummiboot on the wiki:

* Warning: *Gummiboot simply provides a boot menu for EFISTUB kernels. In
case you have issues booting EFISTUB kernels like in
FS#33745,
you should use a boot loader which does not use EFISTUB, like
GRUB,
Syslinux  or
ELILO
.

Would grub work, using this, or a similar, approach?


On Thu, May 1, 2014 at 3:15 PM, Alan E. Davis  wrote:

> Ubuntu's kernel is on the / partition.  Would I move it to the ESP
> partition, in that case?
>
> And I will mount that partition on /mnt/boot ?
>
> I have never used gummiboot.  Since the Arch system is already to go, but
> not yet with a boot management setup, I should manually move that kernel to
> the ESP partition as well?
>
> Alan Davis
>
>
> On Thu, May 1, 2014 at 3:06 PM, Daniel Micay wrote:
>
>> On 01/05/14 06:02 PM, Alan E. Davis wrote:
>> > This looks interesting, and I am tempted to walk into the deep water.
>>  It
>> > raises some questions.
>> >
>> > Will gummiboot or refind also find the Ubuntu partition?
>>
>> You should use the ESP (EFI system partition) to store all of the
>> kernels. The loader (gummiboot) will find the Windows loader along with
>> any kernels on that partition. You really aren't going to want separate
>> boot partitions.
>>
>> > The original partition structure of the machine there were four or five
>> > partitions, and another one popped up in the higher end of the disk.   I
>> > stumbled into the install, with the Ubuntu installer, and ended up with
>> > four linux partitions in addition to the Windoze partitions.  At some
>> point
>> > I used gparted to resize, and this might have been the step that botched
>> > the structure.  But in any event, I have three Linux partitions of 50G
>> > each, and a swap partition.  Ubuntu is sitting in one of those
>> partitions.
>> >
>> > I have no idea what is an EFI partition.  I have seen instructions,
>> > presumably for those who are wiping the Windows and starting from
>> scratch,
>> > to make an EFI partition.
>> >
>> > I finally realized why there are so many partitions, and learned to use
>> > gdisk when walking through the Archlinux install.
>> >
>> > Here is a some information from the gdisk listing:
>> >
>> >Nbr   Size Code   Name
>> >   -++--+-
>> >  1   1000.0 MiB   2700
>> >  2   260.0 MiBEF00 EFI system partition
>> >  3   128.0 MiB0C01Microsoft reserved part
>> >  4   49.6 GiB 0700  Basic data partition
>> >  5   9.7 GiB  2700Lenovo (?recovery?)
>> >  6   10.0 GiB 8200   Linux SWAP
>> >  7   49.4 GiB 8300   Archlinux /
>> >  8   58.8 GiB 8300   /home
>> >  9   1024.0 KiB   EF02 "bios_grub" (Ubuntu?)
>> > 10   59.8 GiB 8300   UBUNTU /
>>
>> It's the one marked EFI system partition (ESP).
>>
>>
>

Re: [arch-general] Installing Archlinux alongside Ubuntu on a Windows 8 UEFI laptop

[Daniel Micay]

On 01/05/14 06:15 PM, Alan E. Davis wrote:
> Ubuntu's kernel is on the / partition.  Would I move it to the ESP
> partition, in that case?
> 
> And I will mount that partition on /mnt/boot ?
> 
> I have never used gummiboot.  Since the Arch system is already to go, but
> not yet with a boot management setup, I should manually move that kernel to
> the ESP partition as well?
> 
> Alan Davis

Yes, you should mount the ESP partition as /boot so the kernels get
installed there. Then install gummiboot and set up entries for Arch and
Ubuntu.



signature.asc
Description: OpenPGP digital signature

Re: [arch-general] Installing Archlinux alongside Ubuntu on a Windows 8 UEFI laptop

[Alan E. Davis]

Ubuntu's kernel is on the / partition.  Would I move it to the ESP
partition, in that case?

And I will mount that partition on /mnt/boot ?

I have never used gummiboot.  Since the Arch system is already to go, but
not yet with a boot management setup, I should manually move that kernel to
the ESP partition as well?

Alan Davis


On Thu, May 1, 2014 at 3:06 PM, Daniel Micay  wrote:

> On 01/05/14 06:02 PM, Alan E. Davis wrote:
> > This looks interesting, and I am tempted to walk into the deep water.  It
> > raises some questions.
> >
> > Will gummiboot or refind also find the Ubuntu partition?
>
> You should use the ESP (EFI system partition) to store all of the
> kernels. The loader (gummiboot) will find the Windows loader along with
> any kernels on that partition. You really aren't going to want separate
> boot partitions.
>
> > The original partition structure of the machine there were four or five
> > partitions, and another one popped up in the higher end of the disk.   I
> > stumbled into the install, with the Ubuntu installer, and ended up with
> > four linux partitions in addition to the Windoze partitions.  At some
> point
> > I used gparted to resize, and this might have been the step that botched
> > the structure.  But in any event, I have three Linux partitions of 50G
> > each, and a swap partition.  Ubuntu is sitting in one of those
> partitions.
> >
> > I have no idea what is an EFI partition.  I have seen instructions,
> > presumably for those who are wiping the Windows and starting from
> scratch,
> > to make an EFI partition.
> >
> > I finally realized why there are so many partitions, and learned to use
> > gdisk when walking through the Archlinux install.
> >
> > Here is a some information from the gdisk listing:
> >
> >Nbr   Size Code   Name
> >   -++--+-
> >  1   1000.0 MiB   2700
> >  2   260.0 MiBEF00 EFI system partition
> >  3   128.0 MiB0C01Microsoft reserved part
> >  4   49.6 GiB 0700  Basic data partition
> >  5   9.7 GiB  2700Lenovo (?recovery?)
> >  6   10.0 GiB 8200   Linux SWAP
> >  7   49.4 GiB 8300   Archlinux /
> >  8   58.8 GiB 8300   /home
> >  9   1024.0 KiB   EF02 "bios_grub" (Ubuntu?)
> > 10   59.8 GiB 8300   UBUNTU /
>
> It's the one marked EFI system partition (ESP).
>
>

Re: [arch-general] Installing Archlinux alongside Ubuntu on a Windows 8 UEFI laptop

[Daniel Micay]

On 01/05/14 06:02 PM, Alan E. Davis wrote:
> This looks interesting, and I am tempted to walk into the deep water.  It
> raises some questions.
> 
> Will gummiboot or refind also find the Ubuntu partition?

You should use the ESP (EFI system partition) to store all of the
kernels. The loader (gummiboot) will find the Windows loader along with
any kernels on that partition. You really aren't going to want separate
boot partitions.

> The original partition structure of the machine there were four or five
> partitions, and another one popped up in the higher end of the disk.   I
> stumbled into the install, with the Ubuntu installer, and ended up with
> four linux partitions in addition to the Windoze partitions.  At some point
> I used gparted to resize, and this might have been the step that botched
> the structure.  But in any event, I have three Linux partitions of 50G
> each, and a swap partition.  Ubuntu is sitting in one of those partitions.
> 
> I have no idea what is an EFI partition.  I have seen instructions,
> presumably for those who are wiping the Windows and starting from scratch,
> to make an EFI partition.
> 
> I finally realized why there are so many partitions, and learned to use
> gdisk when walking through the Archlinux install.
> 
> Here is a some information from the gdisk listing:
> 
>Nbr   Size Code   Name
>   -++--+-
>  1   1000.0 MiB   2700
>  2   260.0 MiBEF00 EFI system partition
>  3   128.0 MiB0C01Microsoft reserved part
>  4   49.6 GiB 0700  Basic data partition
>  5   9.7 GiB  2700Lenovo (?recovery?)
>  6   10.0 GiB 8200   Linux SWAP
>  7   49.4 GiB 8300   Archlinux /
>  8   58.8 GiB 8300   /home
>  9   1024.0 KiB   EF02 "bios_grub" (Ubuntu?)
> 10   59.8 GiB 8300   UBUNTU /

It's the one marked EFI system partition (ESP).



signature.asc
Description: OpenPGP digital signature

Re: [arch-general] Installing Archlinux alongside Ubuntu on a Windows 8 UEFI laptop

[Alan E. Davis]

This looks interesting, and I am tempted to walk into the deep water.  It
raises some questions.

Will gummiboot or refind also find the Ubuntu partition?

The original partition structure of the machine there were four or five
partitions, and another one popped up in the higher end of the disk.   I
stumbled into the install, with the Ubuntu installer, and ended up with
four linux partitions in addition to the Windoze partitions.  At some point
I used gparted to resize, and this might have been the step that botched
the structure.  But in any event, I have three Linux partitions of 50G
each, and a swap partition.  Ubuntu is sitting in one of those partitions.

I have no idea what is an EFI partition.  I have seen instructions,
presumably for those who are wiping the Windows and starting from scratch,
to make an EFI partition.

I finally realized why there are so many partitions, and learned to use
gdisk when walking through the Archlinux install.

Here is a some information from the gdisk listing:

   Nbr   Size Code   Name
  -++--+-
 1   1000.0 MiB   2700
 2   260.0 MiBEF00 EFI system partition
 3   128.0 MiB0C01Microsoft reserved part
 4   49.6 GiB 0700  Basic data partition
 5   9.7 GiB  2700Lenovo (?recovery?)
 6   10.0 GiB 8200   Linux SWAP
 7   49.4 GiB 8300   Archlinux /
 8   58.8 GiB 8300   /home
 9   1024.0 KiB   EF02 "bios_grub" (Ubuntu?)
10   59.8 GiB 8300   UBUNTU /


Alan

On Thu, May 1, 2014 at 2:27 PM, Daniel Micay  wrote:

> On 01/05/14 05:07 PM, Alan E. Davis wrote:
> > This is insanity...   The first time I have encountered the much maligned
> > Micro$oft UEFI / Secure Boot adventure.  On my new Thinkpad Yoga, with a
> > Wacom active digitizer and pen.
> >
> > Ubuntu was a walk in the park.  I installed Ubuntu naively, alongside the
> > new Windows 8.1 laptop.  It took maybe an hour to break my resolve to
> take
> > my time.  It was a disconcerting experience.  I now have a system that
> > boots Ubuntu 2014.04, through a convoluted process of signing into
> Windoze,
> > then  backing out through advanced settings to boot from a Menu.   If I
> > were trying to lock in my customer base, I couldn't have designed it any
> > better, or made it any more uncomfortable, myself.  Ubuntu picks up the
> > Wacom pen, and almost everything else.  But it's not Archlinux.
> >
> > I am a bit fearful, but decided that Archlinux, which I am using on two
> > other machines, would potentially be the better choice.
> >
> > I have two more partitions, one of a /home and another for an Arch /boot,
> > so I went ahead and walked through the most of the install, except for
> > installing the boot manager.
> >
> > I am stuck now.  I don't want to compromise what I have already gained.
> > Now I need to learn how to set up the system to boot any of the three
> OSs.
> >
> > I am puzzled by the variety of approaches I have seen; hence, I am
> reaching
> > out here on the mailing list.
> >
> > I saw advice to use GRUB but install it in the boot PARTITION.  Not sure
> > how to do this, and not sure whether it will work.
> >
> >
> > Does this make sense to anyone?
> >
> > Alan
> >
>
> You shouldn't have a separate boot partition. Install gummiboot or
> refind to the existing FAT32 ESP partition and mount that as your /boot.
> It's *easier* than dealing with MBR/BIOS because you can do it entirely
> via EFI/Boot/BOOTX64 rather than messing with EFI entries.
>
>

Re: [arch-general] Installing Archlinux alongside Ubuntu on a Windows 8 UEFI laptop

[Daniel Micay]

On 01/05/14 05:07 PM, Alan E. Davis wrote:
> This is insanity...   The first time I have encountered the much maligned
> Micro$oft UEFI / Secure Boot adventure.  On my new Thinkpad Yoga, with a
> Wacom active digitizer and pen.
> 
> Ubuntu was a walk in the park.  I installed Ubuntu naively, alongside the
> new Windows 8.1 laptop.  It took maybe an hour to break my resolve to take
> my time.  It was a disconcerting experience.  I now have a system that
> boots Ubuntu 2014.04, through a convoluted process of signing into Windoze,
> then  backing out through advanced settings to boot from a Menu.   If I
> were trying to lock in my customer base, I couldn't have designed it any
> better, or made it any more uncomfortable, myself.  Ubuntu picks up the
> Wacom pen, and almost everything else.  But it's not Archlinux.
> 
> I am a bit fearful, but decided that Archlinux, which I am using on two
> other machines, would potentially be the better choice.
> 
> I have two more partitions, one of a /home and another for an Arch /boot,
> so I went ahead and walked through the most of the install, except for
> installing the boot manager.
> 
> I am stuck now.  I don't want to compromise what I have already gained.
> Now I need to learn how to set up the system to boot any of the three OSs.
> 
> I am puzzled by the variety of approaches I have seen; hence, I am reaching
> out here on the mailing list.
> 
> I saw advice to use GRUB but install it in the boot PARTITION.  Not sure
> how to do this, and not sure whether it will work.
> 
> 
> Does this make sense to anyone?
> 
> Alan
> 

You shouldn't have a separate boot partition. Install gummiboot or
refind to the existing FAT32 ESP partition and mount that as your /boot.
It's *easier* than dealing with MBR/BIOS because you can do it entirely
via EFI/Boot/BOOTX64 rather than messing with EFI entries.



signature.asc
Description: OpenPGP digital signature

Re: [arch-general] Installing Archlinux alongside Ubuntu on a Windows 8 UEFI laptop

[Ralf Mardorf]

Oops, I used the wrong account.

 Forwarded Message 
From: Ralf Mardorf 
To: arch-general@archlinux.org
Subject: Re: [arch-general] Installing Archlinux alongside Ubuntu on a
Windows 8 UEFI laptop
Date: Thu, 01 May 2014 23:18:49 +0200
Mailer: Evolution 3.10.4 

I didn't read it, but perhaps you should read it:
https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/GRUB_EFI_Examples


-- 
Please compare Leonardo da Vinci with Albert Einstein, regarding to
scientific insights and compare his drawings with Richard Corben
regarding to drawing the human anatomy, before you recommend, that we
could learn something by taking care about Leonardo da Vinci. Leonardo
da Vinci is obsolet.

[arch-general] Installing Archlinux alongside Ubuntu on a Windows 8 UEFI laptop

[Alan E. Davis]

This is insanity...   The first time I have encountered the much maligned
Micro$oft UEFI / Secure Boot adventure.  On my new Thinkpad Yoga, with a
Wacom active digitizer and pen.

Ubuntu was a walk in the park.  I installed Ubuntu naively, alongside the
new Windows 8.1 laptop.  It took maybe an hour to break my resolve to take
my time.  It was a disconcerting experience.  I now have a system that
boots Ubuntu 2014.04, through a convoluted process of signing into Windoze,
then  backing out through advanced settings to boot from a Menu.   If I
were trying to lock in my customer base, I couldn't have designed it any
better, or made it any more uncomfortable, myself.  Ubuntu picks up the
Wacom pen, and almost everything else.  But it's not Archlinux.

I am a bit fearful, but decided that Archlinux, which I am using on two
other machines, would potentially be the better choice.

I have two more partitions, one of a /home and another for an Arch /boot,
so I went ahead and walked through the most of the install, except for
installing the boot manager.

I am stuck now.  I don't want to compromise what I have already gained.
Now I need to learn how to set up the system to boot any of the three OSs.

I am puzzled by the variety of approaches I have seen; hence, I am reaching
out here on the mailing list.

I saw advice to use GRUB but install it in the boot PARTITION.  Not sure
how to do this, and not sure whether it will work.


Does this make sense to anyone?

Alan