Re: [Arm-netbook] EOMA68 - I have boards
On Tue, Oct 1, 2024 at 3:23 AM Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton wrote: > [...] w0wza, Luke, sounds like you've been given Satan's own personal handbasket-ride tour of Hell itself. I thought *I* had it bad -- here in the US I'm being bounced from doctor to doctor and while they're not overtly malicious, they sure as balls aren't giving me diagnoses or treatment, either. You have my sympathies -- and my regret that sympathy is all I can offer by way of assistance. I'm glad to hear you're still alive despite being put through all of that. I'm not sure I'd have that kind of fury in me. I'm just not made like that. I melt into a puddle of self-accusation much more easily then I take on the whole "I AM THE GOD OF HELLFIRE AND I BRING YOU -- fire [...]" kind of persona. Hey, take care of yourself, OK? Good luck out there. Chris H. ___ arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk Configuration, options, subscribe and unsubscribe at: http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook Send large attachments to: arm-netb...@files.phcomp.co.uk
Re: [Arm-netbook] EOMA68 - I have boards
On Tue, Oct 1, 2024 at 7:00 AM Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton wrote: > On Tuesday, October 1, 2024, Christopher Havel > wrote: > > > > > > > Hey, take care of yourself, OK? Good luck out there. > > > appreciated Chris. > > I can't get angry. it places me at risk of death. > part of Chronic Adrenal Fatigue. > > https://www.drlamcoaching.com/blog/adrenal-fatigue-and-narcissism/ > > l. > Oh geez. Well, do what you need to do to stay on the ambulatory side of a coffin, OK? Chris H. ___ arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk Configuration, options, subscribe and unsubscribe at: http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook Send large attachments to: arm-netb...@files.phcomp.co.uk
Re: [Arm-netbook] Status update
I have JUST managed to send mine as well. I'd appreciate it if someone'd poke me in a reasonable length of time, to see if I've had a response. I have a lot going on and my ADD memory just does not do well with such things, any attempt on my end will in all likelihood end up falling off the edge of the earth without even so much as a single step... After all, *one* kerfluffle like this is more than enough! (Just one man's opinion lol) I have to say, though -- if it'd been this hard to send a simple friggin email back in 1994, I think we would've all collectively told Tim Berners-Lee *precisely* where he could put that newfangled dag blame "Internet" thing of his! I'm quite thankful that, even with the tech of the day, it was easier then, at least on the user-side of things... On Thu, Nov 24, 2022 at 10:25 AM Franck Sinimalé wrote: > Le 24/11/2022 à 15:36, Christopher Havel a écrit : > >>> On Thu, Nov 24, 2022 at 1:04 PM Franck Sinimalé > >> wrote: > >> > >> Ok, thank you Luke for your tireless response. I looked for in vain, can > >> you tell us (again) how to reach (mail or social network) Chris please ? > >> Or where to find such way to reach him. > >> > > His email address and the required GPG key are at > > https://www.thinkpenguin.com/about. I'm currently futzing my way through > > making Mailvelope work -- or, well, trying to -- so that I can make it > > behave well enough with my GMail account to send just the one email (I > > hope). It's... not going well. I'm not used to this sort of stuff lol > > > > I'm sure you'll be amused to know, however, that I'm looking to migrate > as > > much away from Google as I can, I've been researching Chinese-market > > smartphones so that I can find one without Google Integration (Play > Store / > > Chrome for Mobile / Google Search bar / etc) and I'll probably switch to > > GMX for email and Firefox for the browser. It's a long, slow, painful > > learning process for me -- I'm used to the "if you don't have anything > > worth hiding..." paradigm of security, and I know that isn't good enough > > for you guys but it's served me well. > > > > But, hey, let's see if I can get this one blinkin' thing to work, ey? > LOL. > > Many thank's Christopher. Mail sent. Under Debian I use Thunderbird that > come with OpenPGP. Times ago I had used Mailvelope in Firefox, worked > fine. Well, now waiting for a reply, I'll let know hear if any. > > Bye. > > > ___ > arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk > http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook > Send large attachments to arm-netb...@files.phcomp.co.uk ___ arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook Send large attachments to arm-netb...@files.phcomp.co.uk
Re: [Arm-netbook] Status update
> > > On Thu, Nov 24, 2022 at 1:04 PM Franck Sinimalé > wrote: > > Ok, thank you Luke for your tireless response. I looked for in vain, can > you tell us (again) how to reach (mail or social network) Chris please ? > Or where to find such way to reach him. > His email address and the required GPG key are at https://www.thinkpenguin.com/about. I'm currently futzing my way through making Mailvelope work -- or, well, trying to -- so that I can make it behave well enough with my GMail account to send just the one email (I hope). It's... not going well. I'm not used to this sort of stuff lol I'm sure you'll be amused to know, however, that I'm looking to migrate as much away from Google as I can, I've been researching Chinese-market smartphones so that I can find one without Google Integration (Play Store / Chrome for Mobile / Google Search bar / etc) and I'll probably switch to GMX for email and Firefox for the browser. It's a long, slow, painful learning process for me -- I'm used to the "if you don't have anything worth hiding..." paradigm of security, and I know that isn't good enough for you guys but it's served me well. But, hey, let's see if I can get this one blinkin' thing to work, ey? LOL. ___ arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook Send large attachments to arm-netb...@files.phcomp.co.uk
Re: [Arm-netbook] Status update
Luke, it sounds like, at the very beginning of all of this, you were asking for someone in the community -- I imagine that there's a good reason it can't be you, no worries -- to reach out to that fellow Chris in Keene, NH, either via email or some sort of embedded website contact form somewhere, to follow up about some EOMA CPU Cards that had been shipped to the fellow, and he'd promptly clammed up shortly thereafter and has been evading contact since...? (Clarity: I'm also a Chris, but not THAT Chris, I live in NC and I don't have any Cards lol... fine by me, that's well beyond my ability to do anything but reduce to eWaste!) I presume you still want someone to do that. Can you provide contact info for the fellow? I can send a flippin email FFS. Also, if you have specific phrasing you want me to use, or specific restrictions on what I need to say or not say, I need to know that specifically and clearly. I know you tend to be pretty precise and particular about such things. Luke has the talking-stick at this point, and when he's done, I'll have it back. I will be entirely ignoring the rest of you lot. It's a sad day when I'm just about the only adult in the room, I'm 36 perpetually-going-on-13 lol. But this squabbling is stupid, and the OPPOSITE of productive, and it needs to end. Ya'll all won't, so I will. Someone's gotta fukkin do it. > ___ arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook Send large attachments to arm-netb...@files.phcomp.co.uk
Re: [Arm-netbook] Status update
On a serious note. We're all here because we believe in something. Specifically, the *same* something. We're all here because we believe that, together, we can make that something happen. More that that, we're here because we believe, if we make that something happen, we'll make the world a fundamentally better place, in time.\\ To some degree, that's because we know what we're doing, individually, as people. To some degree, that's because we've come to share a vision. To some degree... well, Bruce Springsteen's "Rainmaker" puts it better than I ever will... or, perhaps, The Eagles' rendition of the old Joe Walsh classic, "In The City". Some variation of "there's got to be a better way than *this*" and "You kind of just have to believe in *something*..." Text is a limited medium. Email is a subset of that medium. Limited communication leads to easy misunderstandings... leads to, well, the exact sort of fracas we're all in. It seems to me that we've got two choices here. We can continue to sit here going at it like cats in a bag, in which case -- in all likelihood -- the entire community we've built up rips itself apart and leaves Luke at Square Zero, at best -- starting over with a cash deficit, missing cards, and very few if any helpers. I mean, I'll probably stick around, but let's face it, I'm not exactly much use to anyone, here or otherwise. We can do that, or we can sit down at the table, crack our knuckles, and figure out what we next need to do before going on to do it. Personally, I don't see much merit in the former option, except that it probably feels pretty good in the moment to most of you. I find nothing but grim nihilism in the tearing down and ripping apart of what we've all worked hard to accomplish. Furthermore, we've all done some stuff in the past that makes us look like knuckledragging mouth-breathers. I'll admit as much as anyone, I was thirteen once. We've all done dumb shit. I know I have, want a list? ;) Heck, when I was first on here, I was convinced that without Windows support, this was a dead-end nothing project. You know what? The world moved on, things changed... and that particular outburst aged like fine, fine milk ;) At least I'm not famous, it'll never be in the history books next to quips like the guy from IBM claiming a world market of, what, a half-dozen computers? or Bill Gates claiming that 640K of RAM ought to be enough for anyone. We've all Done The Dumb. Personally, I trust that, when this is all said and done and out the door, we'll all have accomplished enough to get our fair pats-on-the-back... monetary or otherwise. But I'm not here because it pays well, and I don't think any of us are. I get that Luke feels like he owes Other Chris. I get that most of ya'll folks out there feel like you're owed something. But when you look back, communication over the past year or two or three has been somewhere between minimal and "this is literally a ghost town". There's probably unmaintained Linux packages on Github with more message traffic than us over the past year. I get that there are a lot of stepped-on toes and a lot of hurt feelings. But this isn't how to handle that. Yelling and screaming and carrying on and all only makes for a good commercial for Trojan condoms. Nobody really likes it, it isn't good communication -- hell, it isn't even good behavior, and that's when you're a preschooler! -- and it sure as hell doesn't get anything accomplished. All it does is make noise... *destructive* noise, because it drives us all away from each other, away from our common goal. I'm not here for that, and I don't think anyone else here is. Not really. I'll readily admit, further, that I'm a follower and not a leader... but the leaders I admire lead by example, lead by how they live and act. Actions speak louder than words, after all. Luke, like it or not, you've put yourself on point. Everyone else here is going on like a "who has the loudest siren" contest at the local fire department. So, Luke, you tell me what you think the next big step is, and make me a reasonable case for it, and I'll do what of it I can. The rest of you sit down, shut up, and wait till your damn turn comes around again. You've had your time and you've done nothing but caterwaul. Luke has the talking-stick, and then it goes to me. Let's get this shitshow back on the road. ___ arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook Send large attachments to arm-netb...@files.phcomp.co.uk
Re: [Arm-netbook] Status update
On Wed, Nov 23, 2022 at 5:31 PM Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton wrote: > On Wednesday, November 23, 2022, Christopher Havel > wrote: > > > Honestly, I'm more impressed by all ya'll's energy more'n anything else > lol > > if only it could be diverted usefully... > I know, right? I'd love to have all ya'll's help cleaning... ( :P ) ___ arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook Send large attachments to arm-netb...@files.phcomp.co.uk
Re: [Arm-netbook] Status update
On Wed, Nov 23, 2022, 5:26 PM Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton wrote: > On Wednesday, November 23, 2022, Christopher Havel > wrote: > > /sigh > > > > Now, class... > > it serves a purpose, Chris. the Mythbusters episode on > swearing is particularly funny and informative. > > l. > > > > -- > --- > crowd-funded eco-conscious hardware: https://www.crowdsupply.com/eoma68 > ___ > arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk > http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook > Send large attachments to arm-netb...@files.phcomp.co.uk Honestly, I'm more impressed by all ya'll's energy more'n anything else lol ___ arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook Send large attachments to arm-netb...@files.phcomp.co.uk
Re: [Arm-netbook] Status update
On Wed, Nov 23, 2022 at 5:00 PM Christopher Havel wrote: > /sigh > > Now, class... > I wish I had the kind of energy and stamina all ya'll seem to have. One of my rescued laptops committed sepukku Sunday shortly after arriving at my father's for Thanksgiving. Needs a motherboard. Then I was in the ER for nine hours Monday learning what it feels like to have a kidney stone. Yesterday I spent recovering from that, and from spending basically the entire night Monday-into-Tuesday on the can getting rid of the blame thing. I'm only just now settling into my vacay and ya'll all are still at it like a whole SCHOOL full of kindergartners who've all just found out there's a nationwide shortage of Kool-Aid. I mean, on the one hand, it sure makes quite a racket. But on the other, hey, can I borrow some of that? I have a gaming computer to build and I'm still working out how, and my apartment REALLY needs a proper clean -- I have what I'm pretty sure is a chronic pain disorder that since late Dec 2020 has become coincident with a mild case of Chronic Fatigue Syndrome, and at this point I'm literally just relying on friends. Ya'll all got some energy goin. I could USE that shit yo! LOL. (Hey, if ya can't take a few steps back, look at your life, and laugh, somethin's seriously wrong... y'know?) ___ arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook Send large attachments to arm-netb...@files.phcomp.co.uk
Re: [Arm-netbook] Status update
/sigh Now, class... ___ arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook Send large attachments to arm-netb...@files.phcomp.co.uk
Re: [Arm-netbook] Current status
On Mon, Jul 20, 2020, 2:57 AM George Sokolsky wrote: > How people are moving forward with their computing needs? What's the 'next > best thing' to invest here? I've long since held that the universal computer is the one you build yourself. It's far simpler and easier than the average person is willing to admit to themselves, and it has a wide range of benefits, from customization and the options for it, through to financial benefits. For perspective... I have Asperger's, just strong enough so to keep me on the unemployment line. I'm weird enough, just baseline naturally, to creep out any prospective employers for positions where I might actually be of use. My Disability "check" (as we call it here in the USA -- those in Europe would likely consider it a form of pension, but here that's really something only for retired people) is 1095 USD a month. I don't moonlight, so that 1095 USD has to cover *everything* -- rent, electricity, water/sewer, Internet service, mobile/cell phone service, food, medication, and (since I don't drive) public transportation... and I'm able to set aside 100-150 USD after that, roughly, for "disposable income", which covers the fun stuff -- computer tinkering, art supplies, decorations, etc. I'm building my seventh computer in the cyberdeck form factor that I've come to love... and I'm planning out #8, slowly, as I do so. #7 aka "SPACE CAADET" (after the famous MIT Lisp Machine -- or would that be "MIT Lithp Maschthine", the way Sylvester Cat would say it on Looney Tunes? -- keyboard), yes I named it, I always do that, I'm silly ;) and I'm not shouting, it's a (b)ac(k)ronym... it's going to be my first to run off battery power (unfortunately, it can't run and charge at the same time) and my first with a Celeron N4000 SoC -- prior to this, everything I've used pretty well topped out at an Atom x5-8300. Follow along here, if you'd like (warning to those still on limited/90s-kind-of-slow connections -- it's *extremely* picture heavy!) -- https://hackaday.io/project/173780-space-caadet I intend, if I can ever get myself together enough, to someday put together a book, which I'll also have done up as a series of online videos if I can, that teaches people how to make their own. That's my answer :) ___ arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook Send large attachments to arm-netb...@files.phcomp.co.uk
Re: [Arm-netbook] 2.7.4 preproduction sample, 1.7 MD, Questions
Forgive the horribly embarrassingly so-late-it's-early chime-in from a dork on his phone :P but it's worth noting that antistatic bags are generally conductive on one side (and only one side!) -- especially the darkly-translucent aluminized Mylar kind. It strikes me that getting that conductive side oriented in the wrong direction could prove spectacularly catastrophic, so I thought I'd pipe up about that... I mean, fireworks can be fun, but usually not that kind, and as far as I know all the major holidays involving such things are either already over or way later in the year... could be wrong tho. ( :P ) ...but seriously, let's keep the "magic smoke" inside the componentry where it belongs ;) IIRC most of those shiny-ish bags should be multimeter-verifiable as to which side is which. ___ arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook Send large attachments to arm-netb...@files.phcomp.co.uk
Re: [Arm-netbook] MNT Reform Campaign
OK... how about something like a hybrid of what Transmeta and Google's Android OS do, where you have an SoC on a board with its support stuff, and it presents a standardized set of interfaces/specs/etc to the OS via a firmware-level (?) VM sort of setup...? Yes, I know how awful Transmeta CPUs were -- but not firsthand. Secondhand. My local tech shop pal Jody has (had? Don't remember right now and I'm too lazy to bug him) a Transmeta Crusoe based system at some point... said that it made VIA chips look like a particularly high-end Core i9 Extreme Edition overclocked and tuned to within an inch of catching fire (LOL -- my words, not his). If you're not familiar with VIA... a 1GHz VIA Eden CPU as found in a thin client I'm quite familiar with (the Wyse C-series aka Wyse Cx0 series... their model number scheme is really weird) is about on par with my HP Mini 5102 netbook from 2010. But, hey, maybe...? I dunno, you guys clearly know this stuff way better than I do, so you tell me! Off-topic #1 -- coincidentally, the HP Mini has a repair to it I'm quite proud of... Jody gave it to me with a dented lid and a BIOS password. Couldn't do much about the lid, but... SOIC-8 ROM holds the BIOS code. Desoldered, plunked in my (then fairly new) TL866C "MiniPro" programmer I'd gotten a few months prior for my birthday... boom! No more password. First real SMD/SMT solder job I did. Off-topic #2 -- more interesting, probably, to you guys would be how I came to be so familiar with the Wyse C-series clients in the first place. Go look up bug #91966 in the bug tracker for the "openchrome" Xwin driver ;) warning, it's quite a long read... over 100 posts/comments... not kidding! ___ arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook Send large attachments to arm-netb...@files.phcomp.co.uk
Re: [Arm-netbook] MNT Reform Campaign
Forgive me for asking, because I didn't quite pass the requisite fervency test to be enrolled in the Joint OSHW-F|L|OSS Technical Militia ( :P ), but remind me, please, of a couple things, if I may ask them...? (1) Why are there none of these OSHW devices using existing x86-compatible CPUs/SoCs? (2a) Are there any meaningful barriers to creating an OSHW-compatible x86 CPU/SoC, independent of major chip houses (Intel, AMD) or established niche players (VIA, etc)? (2b) I've heard noises of a homegrown sort of effort out of China, from a company and fab house over there... could that CPU be considered as an acceptable candidate for such an effirt, and if not, why...? (I assume not, and because "China!", but I'm wide open here.) ___ arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook Send large attachments to arm-netb...@files.phcomp.co.uk
Re: [Arm-netbook] How about an opensource nuclear reactor?
On Mon, Mar 9, 2020, 9:57 PM zap some things are made of uranium that cause a lot of damage and trust me > it wouldn't be a blast at all! > > pun intended... > earth_shattering_kaboom.gif ;) > ___ arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook Send large attachments to arm-netb...@files.phcomp.co.uk
Re: [Arm-netbook] How about an opensource nuclear reactor?
LOL. That's not going to last a hot minute. Any country worth its salt has very strong laws on the books prohibiting this sort of thing, because of what can happen very easily if you don't get it exactly right. Even universities and research labs and the like, even if they're *part* of the government, have to get special permission to touch that stuff... nuclear anything is not something to be taken lightly, and enough important people know that so that it's regulated *incredibly* tightly. I'm told that if you have nuke clearance with the US gov't, for example, the US Military has to know *exactly* where you are at all times, as in, if you need to use a portapotty they just about want the serial # off the side of the box, and what second of what minute you went in and came back out. Yikes. There was a kid a few decades ago who tried to do up a civvie reactor on his own, some years ago, here in the US. I'm not sure what state... he got a lot of press at the time, and a book later on, but the press has newer, bigger things to deal with right now and I never bought the book and it was quite some time ago anyways. That said... apparently he got ahold of a truly insane number of smoke detectors without his parents noticing, and got enough Americium-241 together as a result (just barely) to get a reaction going. Put the whole thing together in a backyard shed, literally. He got found out pretty quickly, though, because he either hadn't studied enough or was too inept otherwise, to realize that he had to freaking *cool* this monstrosity... it was apparently something of an IR beacon, on the intensity level of gazing point-blank into a carbon-arc searchlamp... ops! I'm not sure what wound up happening to him, but I can't imagine it was as simple as "okay we're taking this away and don't do it again" ;) Cops generally aren't that nice... especially with things that are issues both of public safety and national security at the same time, like he had conjured up... But yeah that's how *that* went. On Mon, Mar 9, 2020 at 6:16 PM David Niklas wrote: > Dear luke, > > Such a project might not be ligament (I'm not a physicist), but people > seem to be taking it seriously. > As of this writing 2 of the files are still missing "PRIMARY LOOP" and > "STEAM TURBINE". > > https://www.open-100.com/ > > David > > ___ > arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk > http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook > Send large attachments to arm-netb...@files.phcomp.co.uk ___ arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook Send large attachments to arm-netb...@files.phcomp.co.uk
Re: [Arm-netbook] Fwd: [eoma68 update] report back from factory on HDMI
@ Luke -- as the old Latin phrase goes -- *festina lente*. Proceed with haste, but slowly ;) Also, things rarely, if ever, turn out the way one initially expects. This is obviously one of the more 'scenic route' examples of that... but it is nonetheless quite understandable. Carry on! ___ arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook Send large attachments to arm-netb...@files.phcomp.co.uk
Re: [Arm-netbook] microkernels
@ All - thank you for a better understanding of microkernels. I learned more than a few things there. @ Luke, re Win - it is one of two Win boxes I maintain. The other is a Dell XPS 15Z with the more odious Windows 10, which I need because I use a graphics application called CorelDRAW. I have attempted the use of Inkscape - but, "bless their hearts" (as one often says, in my geographic location) they have no idea how to make a human-usable UI. The one time I tried it, it gave me fits and left me with far more questions than answers... I maintain the Win7 netbook because of a promise I made to a close friend - he spent his childhood in front of various computers with the Commodore logo on them - and he recently gave me that collection, with tge request that I image the rather extensive disk library that it came with, so that if he ever wanted to fire up an emulator and muck around like a kid again, he could. Normally this requires a real DOS computer, and specialized software and cabling - as Commodore's disk drives used a different encoding scheme, at the magnetic level, from what PC drives use - but I recently acquired a device called a "ZoomFloppy", which enables the use of more modern equipment to do the PC side of the job - you still need a Commodore drive, mind you, but you are no longer mired in the world of the early 1990s (at the latest!) otherwise, which dramatically reduces the number of potential points of failure. ...as for why I'm using the netbook for anything else - that comes down to three things. One, I like sitting in my front room right now better than spending all day at the desk in the bedroom - which I desperately need to clean off. Two, one of my DIY laptops recently died spectacularly, and I'm awaiting parts for a rebuild. Three, the netbook offers a convenient stand-in for the dead laptop and is easily set up in my front room, whereas relocating the much larger, remaining DIY laptop from the bedroom desk would be a considerable effort indeed. Also - I do not, in the given context, understand the term "marshalling" as you used it - could you elaborate, please...? ___ arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook Send large attachments to arm-netb...@files.phcomp.co.uk
Re: [Arm-netbook] microkernels
So, as I (poorly) understand it, the idea of a "microkernel" is that each process/thread/application (I'm not quite sure which) gets its own kernel, sort of, and that this kernel is somewhat modular in that it only provides what functionality the application needs from it. If I'm understanding that correctly -- which I very easily might not, I only have a somewhat abstract understanding of kernels to begin with, at best -- it seems to me that things like memory management suddenly become cooperative efforts, and that could very easily lead to what is typically non-technically referred to as a massive clusterf***. Wouldn't it be easier/better, if you're going to rewrite code, to look at how the code is written now and find ways to make it more compact (or less sloppy, perhaps, as the case may be) while still providing the same functionality? I recognize that we've come a quite long way from things like an Atari 2600, but when you consider the system resources of /that/ machine -- 4k ROM, 128 *bytes* of memory, a rather nastily-tempered, strict, and uncooperative graphics controller, and a CPU running at ~1MHz with no interrupt capability whatsoever -- and what all was done with it by coding tightly (and the occasional dirty trick or three) -- it seems to me, admittedly as a non-programmer, that there's a lot that could be done to streamline the behavior of modern operating systems and the applications that run within them. For example, I'm typing this on a 32bit Win7 based HP Mini netbook with an Atom N450 CPU and 2gb RAM. It seems to me that playing Pandora Internet Radio in one browser window, with another browser window of nine tabs (and three of those are static JPEG images retrieved from a search engine, not proper webpages or anything), and with the file manager having one window open and another image displayed in an OS-resident image viewer -- that the described load ought not to very nearly lock the machine up entirely. And yet, it does -- which, it seems to me, indicates that the gentlefolk they're hiring over there in Redmond these days, simply do not understand how to code. But, then, neither do I... ___ arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook Send large attachments to arm-netb...@files.phcomp.co.uk
[Arm-netbook] Questioning The Holy War
Okay. Forgive me, Luke, for inciting what will inevitably be a stake-burning that will be of such grand proportion as to be visible in space... ...but... ...I have to admit that I just don't "get it". When I write, I save my documents in Word 97-2003 *.doc format. Sometimes I even make a PDF copy. When I listen to music, it's inevitably an MP3. When I go shopping, I like to sit in the Subway at the local Walmart and mooch off the wifi- to the point that, specifically because it has no wifi, I won't go to the Wendy's across the parking lot even though I like their food better. And not having access to Flash is always an annoyance when it occurs. Even my phone is a Samsung Galaxy S7 - not exactly flying the flag of happy freedom-ness. All the stuff I do and rely on daily in my computer is closed-source. I prefer Linux as an operating system primarily because (a) it is a standalone setup which does not require third-party applications for ordinary daily operation, the way Windows does, (b) it's incredibly modular, (c) it doesn't think I'm stupid (much), and (d) I can't beat the price. In using both Linux and Windows (and, to a somewhat lesser extent, DOS and whatever's in a Commodore 64) over the roughly two-and-a-half decades of my life in which I've had my own computer, the only applications I've ever had that actually shot the cat (metaphorically) were applications designed for that purpose, i.e. malware - and in all instances, that was on Windows. (There is one exception that was me being a dummy and turning off a vital system component and then rebooting, the result of which was an unavoidable reinstall -- but that was quite early on and something far more along the lines of a moderately entertaining learning experience than anything else.) ...and that's kind of where I usually draw the line. If a guven application doesn't 'shoot the cat' -- cause obvious system instability or exhibit other overtly malicious activity during use -- and it performs the task(s) it was designed for, it seems to me it ought to be considered just fine, at least for the most part. Yet, almost every message on this list seems to carry with it the implication -- if not express statement -- that if a given application can't be openly audited on a remarkably low level by a random layperson at a random time and place -- leaving alone the fact that most ordinary individuals severely lack the knowledge and education required for that task -- it must therefore be evil and untrustworthy and oh god we can't have any of that sort of thing around here, shoo shoo... Maybe I'm just too ordinary (although that's one thing I've never been accused of!) but I just don't understand. If a program demonstrably does its job, keeps its pants up, and doesn't 'shoot the cat', at least in everyday use, it's got to be, at worst -- as Douglas Adams would say -- "mostly harmless "... right...? ___ arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook Send large attachments to arm-netb...@files.phcomp.co.uk
Re: [Arm-netbook] tricky conundrum for the upcoming libre-riscv soc crowdsupply page: image needed
Second-best idea... I've seen older datasheets for 74xx parts where they've put the image for the chip die *plan*. It always looks like it got copied on a cheap fax machine that had never ever been cleaned of toner -- but it's, you know, /there/. Since what you want is a "representative" image -- put up the chip die plan for the most basic of configurations, without any extras, and *include in the image* a caption explaining that that's what it is -- the base configuration, and that said configuration can and will be customized later for individuals and companies with enough clout and MOQ. ___ arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook Send large attachments to arm-netb...@files.phcomp.co.uk
Re: [Arm-netbook] tricky conundrum for the upcoming libre-riscv soc crowdsupply page: image needed
How about a low-res-ish image of the die? ___ arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook Send large attachments to arm-netb...@files.phcomp.co.uk
Re: [Arm-netbook] [Campaign Question] USB-C is used more and more...
I never knew that - thanks! ___ arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook Send large attachments to arm-netb...@files.phcomp.co.uk
Re: [Arm-netbook] [Campaign Question] USB-C is used more and more...
Oh nice. I didn't know I could do that *blush* I'll have to remember that. Thanks, man! ___ arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook Send large attachments to arm-netb...@files.phcomp.co.uk
Re: [Arm-netbook] [Campaign Question] USB-C is used more and more...
Quick phone top-post, sorry Luke. Zap, I will presume for the moment that you have been living under a large roundish lump of granite for the past year-and-a-half-plus (or perhaps in a small cave in a particularly remote area) and that Creepy Uncle Google, for whatever reason, is not working for you. There is a protocol and a connector at work here. USB 3.1 would be the protocol, theoretically even faster (and otherwise more capable) than USB3.0. USB-C is the associated connector, and the two are inextricably linked - AFAIK, one can *only* use the USB3.1 protocol over a rwo-connector cable that has at least one end terminated in a USB-C connector. USB-C is a rectangular-ish connector - its ends are circular but the area in between is flat so it's not an oval shape. Not sure what the technical term is - high school geometry was a long time ago indeed. At any rate, the connector is a little larger than USB Micro. It contains a ridiculous number of pins for its size... 19 IIRC, but that may be me getting confused with HDMI and MiniHDMI... The other thing about the connector is that it's reversible. You can plug it in upside-down and it will match merrily along as if nothing was different. However, it is also yet another freakin' USB connector to keep track of and require adapters for, and as such, it's completely redundant and unnecessary. Everyone on earth has already done the USB-A triple-plug-to-fit dance enough times to be used to it. I have no use for a standard whose only meaningful advantage is one I don't care about and whose actual effect is that I need to buy more effing adapters just to make my stuff work the way it should OOTB. On Sun, Oct 14, 2018, 9:42 PM zap wrote: > > >> I do *not* put up with USB-C. USB-C, in my not-so-humble > >> opinion (IMNSHO) is missing three letters off the end that, together, > rhyme > >> with "map"... > >> > >> No C for me. > > :) > What is Usb-C? just wondering? > > > > ___ > > arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk > > http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook > > Send large attachments to arm-netb...@files.phcomp.co.uk > > > ___ > arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk > http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook > Send large attachments to arm-netb...@files.phcomp.co.uk ___ arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook Send large attachments to arm-netb...@files.phcomp.co.uk
Re: [Arm-netbook] [Campaign Question] USB-C is used more and more...
I personally think there was nothing wrong with USB-A/B/mini-B. I put up with USB Micro. I do *not* put up with USB-C. USB-C, in my not-so-humble opinion (IMNSHO) is missing three letters off the end that, together, rhyme with "map"... No C for me. ___ arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook Send large attachments to arm-netb...@files.phcomp.co.uk
Re: [Arm-netbook] Oscilloscope or bust?
Sounds like you're taking your plunge at the deep end of the pool, and you're getting a bit lost along the way because you're in over your head. Get this book. Read it. Study it. Build things. (Don't trust eBay for parts! I know this from experience.) You will LEARN. https://www.amazon.com/dp/0945053282 Alternatively, if you dig around, you may be able to find a PDF copy of "MAKE: Electronics" online. That would also be a good book to start with. First learn to swim. Then learn to dive. Then you can truly get out of the shallows... On Sun, Sep 23, 2018 at 3:54 PM David Niklas wrote: > On Sun, 9 Sep 2018 23:25:42 -0400 > David Niklas wrote: > > Hi, > > I need help here. I was designing the power supply of my laptop and I > > noticed that some power bucks and step up/down converters (Which both > > seem to do the same thing. Please tell me otherwise.), produced a more > > stable power supply than others. In order to find out if they are truly > > suitable for suppling power to sensitive electronics I've heard that I > > need an oscilloscope. > > I currently own: > > > > 1. #222634543946 > > "DC-DC 10/12/15/20A 150/250/300/400/1200W Step up Step > > down Buck Boost Converter" > > > > 2. #152710861245 > > "2A DC Boost Step-up Adjustable Converter Module 3v-24v to 3.3v 5v 6v > > 9v 12v 24v" > > > > After learning that some guy with an oscilloscope reviewed these, I'm > > planning to get: #122923215542 > > "6 Pack MP1584EN ultra Small DC-DC 3A power Step-Down > > Adjustable Module Buck M2H3 6 Pack MP1584EN ultra Small DC-DC 3A power > > Step-Down Adjustable Module Buck" > > > > I've seen many oscilloscopes online on crowd funding campaigns. I've > > never been certain of which to get, if any. The real professional ones > > are out of my budget range of about $100. *I'll pay more if I must*, > > but I already did not anticipate the need to actually evaluate what > > should be solid products. > > I probably should find a solid adjustable DC power supply to test these > > with vs. an old laptop power pack or some batteries. > > What I need some of these things to do is to take a dynamically variable > > voltage as input (Li-Ion batteries in series), and produce a constant > > voltage as output. Others I need to just convert to the correct voltage > > from the old laptop power pack. > > > > Thanks! > > David > > Alternatively, does anyone know a good place to ask? > > I searched a lot online and found a forum www.electro-tech-online.com > which I signed up to and was rejected. It was a very weird sign up > process. You're supposed to input your name but the form will only take > one character (and allows white space as that one!) You also have to tell > what education level you're at (I choose student), and what your > expertise is, which being a student was none, but they did not have that > choice and the others were things like "PCB layout engineer," so I > selected everything. > After being rejected I wrote to the admin asking the reason and have yet > to get a response after about a week... > In other news, I found a couple of guys on youtube who did a review of > the 300W buck converter I own and it seems to be a good model with a > 168mhz switching freq and 218ma voltage variation independent of load, but > I must confess that I have not done any work with computer circuits until > now so they might have stricter requirements than I think. > So, I think I'll add a 3.3uf capacitor onto the leads and call it quits > from there. 3.3uf should be able to reach saturation at 168mhz unless my > calculations of the time constants are incorrect. Feel free to check me > on that, I did use a calculator this time (I learned via pencil and > paper and I still have my notes!) > > Still, I think I could use a good place to ask these questions on because > although this list is called "arm netbook" it seems that a lot of > questions I post on the subject go unanswered, but that might just be my > perception :) > > Status update: other than the above, I'm still trying to find genuine > Li-Ion batteries (both my stock of Li-Ion and my Ni-Mh batteries are > duds. I did replace the Ni-Mh ones), and I managed to fry a pair of my > tester leads (turns out that the tester is rated for 10A and the leads > for 8A? So I'm building an open source set of leads. :) They "mind > melded" to each other when I decided to test if my 300W buck converter > would work. > Another annoying thing is that it turns out that electrolytic capacitors > are being faked in addition to batteries. I never needed a capacitor > tester before because the ones that were not bulging were marked and the > ones that are bulging are not safe. So I am getting a little TC1 > multi-function tester that was reviewed here: > > https://lygte-info.dk/review/ComponentTester%20Multifunction%20Tester%20T1%20UK.html > The gentlemen also reviewed a bunch of batteries, but most of them are no > longer available or are very expensive. > > > Thanks! > > __
Re: [Arm-netbook] Logos
Forgive me chiming in with an admittedly esoteric viewpoint... but... What if "money" was a system of measurement, without intrinsic value...? What I'm envisioning is a barter economy, regulated somewhat like communistic states do -- but using a standardized system of worth-measurement. So, say I had bricks of cheese, and you had boxes of eggs. Given that my cheese is say 0.5kg/brick, and you have 12 eggs to a box, we'd look up how much the gov't says our relative goods are worth, and exchange proportionately. So, say, one kg of cheese is worth ten credits that day, and three eggs is worth one credit, so I'd get fifteen eggs per brick of cheese, or five boxes of eggs for every four bricks of cheese if I've got my math right (sorry, I'm severely math-challenged -- to the level of having some sort of otherwise-unnamed "math fluency disorder" that I was labeled with in grade school... the gist is that I understand the *concepts* on actually something of a slightly advanced level, but I can't manage the actual *exercises*, real-world or textbook, without a half-decent calculator). Alternatively, in a less-regulated society, we'd haggle for a while and figure out for ourselves what eggs and cheese should be worth -- although that somewhat sidesteps the need for standardized units altogether. Of course, that one guy who only has stuff that absolutely nobody wants, kinda gets into a bit of trouble in a barter economy... the conceptual system is not without its flaws. But, hey, that's true of everything out there, so... I dunno. /shrug ___ arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook Send large attachments to arm-netb...@files.phcomp.co.uk
[Arm-netbook] So this is kind of interesting, I thought...
https://hackaday.com/2018/09/17/a-1-linux-capable-hand-solderable-processor/ A (barely) hand-solderable Linux-able ARM SoC. US$1 each if you buy a full reel from a questionable supplier, and the package is a 176-lead LQFP (!) with half-millimeter pitch (!!) -- but still only ~US$3 for qty/1 from reputable sources, and it is /technically/ hand-workable if you've got a temperature-controlled iron with the right tip and a particularly steady hand. I'm impressed. The bad news, though, is that it's an Allwinner part with all of the usual baggage. The /worse/ news is that it's actually ~6yrs old and plods along at 1GHz. Somehow I just don't see it running Android 9.0 Pie without melting down spectacularly -- although, it might be adequate for running eg Linux Mint or something similarly lightweight... I wonder how cheaply one could manufacture a complete all-in-one PC with one of these...? Back-of-the-envelope calcs makes me think one could compete with those ~US$100-150 Atom z8300/z8350 MiniPCs on eBay and Amazon and AliExpress (none of which have screens built in, mind you), but I've been wrong before, for sure... ___ arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook Send large attachments to arm-netb...@files.phcomp.co.uk
Re: [Arm-netbook] Oscilloscope or bust?
Pardon a top post, plz, I'm on my phone again... Oscilloscopes are a great tool for either (a) analyzing analog waveforms, if you know what you're doing, or (b) looking like the absolute incarnation of technological tomfoolery, if you don't. Mostly I fall into the second category. My scope is a secondhand, pre-moonshot Tektronix 422. It weighs about as much as a good stout WW2 battleship and probably has just as much metal... it certainly has almost as many controls, and the dizzying array of knob and levers and buttons means I have virtually no idea how to work it. I do have the manual and a lot of bad excuses, though! ...anyways... These links may be of some use. The first couple are a little outdated, but all should be serviceable... https://hackaday.com/2016/01/27/a-tale-of-two-sub-100-oscilloscopes/ https://hackaday.com/2017/11/09/review-jye-tech-dso150-oscilloscope-kit/ https://hackaday.com/2017/11/18/ds212-oscilloscope-review-open-source-and-great-for-hacking/ ...and, if you're "Robinson Crusoe on a Desert Island" desperate (note, I wouldn't trust myself with this one!)... https://hackaday.com/2017/04/06/hacking-a-vintage-tv-into-an-oscilloscope/ There are also dead-simple recipes out there (Forrest Mims, /et al/) for o-scope builds using (literally) a few chips and a double-fistful of LEDs... but those badly lack the sort of display resolution you need for this. HTH... Chris On Sun, Sep 9, 2018, 11:26 PM David Niklas wrote: > Hi, > I need help here. I was designing the power supply of my laptop and I > noticed that some power bucks and step up/down converters (Which both > seem to do the same thing. Please tell me otherwise.), produced a more > stable power supply than others. In order to find out if they are truly > suitable for suppling power to sensitive electronics I've heard that I > need an oscilloscope. > I currently own: > > 1. #222634543946 > "DC-DC 10/12/15/20A 150/250/300/400/1200W Step up Step > down Buck Boost Converter" > > 2. #152710861245 > "2A DC Boost Step-up Adjustable Converter Module 3v-24v to 3.3v 5v 6v > 9v 12v 24v" > > After learning that some guy with an oscilloscope reviewed these, I'm > planning to get: #122923215542 > "6 Pack MP1584EN ultra Small DC-DC 3A power Step-Down > Adjustable Module Buck M2H3 6 Pack MP1584EN ultra Small DC-DC 3A power > Step-Down Adjustable Module Buck" > > I've seen many oscilloscopes online on crowd funding campaigns. I've > never been certain of which to get, if any. The real professional ones > are out of my budget range of about $100. *I'll pay more if I must*, but I > already did not anticipate the need to actually evaluate what should be > solid products. > I probably should find a solid adjustable DC power supply to test these > with vs. an old laptop power pack or some batteries. > What I need some of these things to do is to take a dynamically variable > voltage as input (Li-Ion batteries in series), and produce a constant > voltage as output. Others I need to just convert to the correct voltage > from the old laptop power pack. > > Thanks! > David > > ___ > arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk > http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook > Send large attachments to arm-netb...@files.phcomp.co.uk ___ arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook Send large attachments to arm-netb...@files.phcomp.co.uk
Re: [Arm-netbook] So this just popped up on Hackaday.
@ Alexander Ross -- sounds like it's time for a replacement LCD cable ;) a reseat won't always do the job. Wires are shorting out inside the cable, is what it usually is -- the insulation wore out in a spot, similar to how a hole develops where the garden hose always kinks. ___ arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook Send large attachments to arm-netb...@files.phcomp.co.uk
Re: [Arm-netbook] So this just popped up on Hackaday.
I know what's in the linked blurb and that's it, sorry... I'm actually far more an XFCE person than I am a KDE person. ___ arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook Send large attachments to arm-netb...@files.phcomp.co.uk
[Arm-netbook] So this just popped up on Hackaday.
Looks relevant to me... https://hackaday.com/2018/08/29/99-pinebook-gets-kde-neon-port/ Sorry to disturb the silence. ___ arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook Send large attachments to arm-netb...@files.phcomp.co.uk
Re: [Arm-netbook] Project status / 3D printing of resin cases?
@David -- I assume with your HDMI adapter, you're dealing with Chinese eBay sellers. I find that you have to nag them (three times!) about everything in order to get anything done. It's usually after the third nearly identical message that they figure out that you actually want them to get off their duff and do something useful... I really don't understand why they're like that -- it's like they care only about the money they're getting, and that whether or not they actually ship product is a secondary concern (let alone what condition it is in once it arrives...). I can actually recommend one particular seller -- they deal with driver boards for eg laptop LCDs, I got one for a Dell e6400 lid assembly from them -- they are under the eBay handle "ruohan666". They were extremely good, and when there was a problem (I /really/ should have removed that obviously spurious blob of solder before applying power to the kit!) they sent me a whole replacement kit, and did so rather speedily. But behavior like theirs is sadly the exception (and a grand one at that), rather than the rule. Also, I feel your pain with the DP connector -- I have a project I keep putting off because I don't think I can manage the 0.4mm pitch Hirose-clone connector involved. It turns out that the LCD in my mother's deceased Nexus 7 tablet has *almost* the same timings as that e6400 LCD, and I have the LVDS connector's pinout and a spare driver board. I don't need the inverter board because driving the backlight is as simple as wiring up 5v and a 100k pot. The two panels may or may not in fact be compatible -- I'd love to find out -- but that damned connector stuffs two rows of fifteen pins into a 3/8" long space... I'm pretty decent with the ol' iron, but I don't think I'm *that* good. For the record, the two timings that are out of spec on the Nexus 7 LCD are the front and back porches. ...and, as an aside -- if anyone wants to make a cable for my connector (it's Panasonic's AXT530124; Digikey has it; email me and I'll send you a picture of the pinout needed) and a cable for David, I'm sure we both will be eternally grateful. Depending on the time of the month, I may be able to Paypal a small amount ($10 or so) to help with expenses... I'm in North Carolina, USA, for shipping purposes. ___ arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook Send large attachments to arm-netb...@files.phcomp.co.uk
[Arm-netbook] Well, this is interesting...
Neither ARM nor netbook, strictly speaking, but we've veered off topic before, so gee why not... https://hackaday.com/2018/03/12/new-guts-make-old-thinkpads-new/ Looks vaguely relevant. Chris ___ arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook Send large attachments to arm-netb...@files.phcomp.co.uk
Re: [Arm-netbook] Testing: GPIO
Be careful... it was the replacing of the two ports on that old VGN-S360 that killed it... VAIOs are well known in repair circles for dying of heatstroke from even the slightest rework (and I was duly warned)... if it's a modular jack (on a cable, so no soldering), you'll be fine. If you need an iron... buy a board, not a port. Trust me. On Mar 1, 2018 7:20 PM, "Richard Wilbur" wrote: > On Thu, Mar 1, 2018 at 5:10 PM, Christopher Havel > wrote: > > Posting from my phone while making dinner, so forgive that it's a > top-post > > plz. > > > > Testing via the micro desktop works as long as you've got a known good > > micro desktop and your ports haven't won through. I think the 4051 idea > > might be a little better - I've worn out USB ports before, just from > using > > them - ask me sometime about my mother's old VAIO laptop and how it > > ultimately died... the only thing in my test rig to wear out is the card > > cage... > > > > But, I'm not in charge, so I'll defer. > > You make very good points about connector fatigue. I was planning to > leave everything connected and only install/remove the EOMA68 card > from the micro-desktop case. That works as long as we don't need to > test hot-plugging anything. To my knowledge we figured the hot-plug > capability would likely be conferred by the applicable standard and > thus were designing a basic functionality test. > > (Incidentally I have a dead VAIO laptop in which the power jack center > pin broke. I really need to get that ordered and replaced.;>) > > ___ > arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk > http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook > Send large attachments to arm-netb...@files.phcomp.co.uk ___ arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook Send large attachments to arm-netb...@files.phcomp.co.uk
Re: [Arm-netbook] Testing: GPIO
Posting from my phone while making dinner, so forgive that it's a top-post plz. Testing via the micro desktop works as long as you've got a known good micro desktop and your ports haven't won through. I think the 4051 idea might be a little better - I've worn out USB ports before, just from using them - ask me sometime about my mother's old VAIO laptop and how it ultimately died... the only thing in my test rig to wear out is the card cage... But, I'm not in charge, so I'll defer. On Mar 1, 2018 7:04 PM, "Richard Wilbur" wrote: > On Thu, Mar 1, 2018 at 4:12 PM, Christopher Havel > wrote: > > I /designed/ that circuitry in the micro-desktop. I still have the paper > > copy somewhere... > > Very nice! > > > You can also do it with a dedicated DAC chip, which is the > > easy-but-expensive way I hinted at. > > > > But we aren't testing /that/ part -- the micro-desktop -- are we? If > we're > > testing the /card/, the card does not output anything remotely like VGA, > > and, therefore, some kind of conversion is necessary in order to attach > it > > to a VGA cable as was being proposed in the email I replied to about > that. > > We aren't planning to test the micro-desktop. The planning is for > tests of the card mounted in a micro-desktop case to use as a test > fixture. We are planning to use your good work on the micro-desktop > case to our advantage and connect the VGA cable to the micro-desktop > VGA connector in order to see that the EOMA68 RGBTTL (with EDID) works > as advertised! > > > All you really need for this is a laptop PCMCIA or CardBus card cage, an > > IDE cable or two, a couple 4051s and toggle switches on a slice of > > perfboard, a 9v battery with connector and switch, and a cheap USB logic > > analyzer attached to a laptop. You use the 4051s, switched manually, and > > powered by the 9v battery, to act as input expanders for the logic > > analyzer. Each 4015 turns one channel into eight and requires three > "on-on" > > switches -- with one "on" wired to +9v, one to ground, and the common to > > the chip. You use the IDE cable for the wires ;) If you hook it up so > that > > you have one 4051 mux per logic analyzer channel, that'll give you 128 > (!) > > channels to switch with -- most USB logic analyzers, even the super cheap > > ones, are 16-channel... > > > > Heck, if you wanted to make the circuit "complicated" -- I could draw up > > something that automatically iterated through the channels for you at the > > press of a single button, switching at variable speed with a pot, a 555, > a > > resistor and cap, and a couple 4017s and 4051s. You'd only need /one/ > > channel for that -- so you could even use an o-scope there. Heck, I could > > do it with that circuit and my old, old Tektronix 422... > > > > I'm honestly surprised that this sort of idea hasn't been mentioned yet. > > That is a cool way to set up a very wide logic analyzer. We were > planning to use a little specialized hardware and less elbow grease to > make our test fixture: > * USB devices connected to the micro-desktop case USB ports, > * SD peripheral connected to the micro SD slot, > * VGA monitor connected to the VGA connector, > * serial terminal connected to the UART pins in expansion header > > ___ > arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk > http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook > Send large attachments to arm-netb...@files.phcomp.co.uk ___ arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook Send large attachments to arm-netb...@files.phcomp.co.uk
Re: [Arm-netbook] Testing: GPIO
I /designed/ that circuitry in the micro-desktop. I still have the paper copy somewhere... You can also do it with a dedicated DAC chip, which is the easy-but-expensive way I hinted at. But we aren't testing /that/ part -- the micro-desktop -- are we? If we're testing the /card/, the card does not output anything remotely like VGA, and, therefore, some kind of conversion is necessary in order to attach it to a VGA cable as was being proposed in the email I replied to about that. All you really need for this is a laptop PCMCIA or CardBus card cage, an IDE cable or two, a couple 4051s and toggle switches on a slice of perfboard, a 9v battery with connector and switch, and a cheap USB logic analyzer attached to a laptop. You use the 4051s, switched manually, and powered by the 9v battery, to act as input expanders for the logic analyzer. Each 4015 turns one channel into eight and requires three "on-on" switches -- with one "on" wired to +9v, one to ground, and the common to the chip. You use the IDE cable for the wires ;) If you hook it up so that you have one 4051 mux per logic analyzer channel, that'll give you 128 (!) channels to switch with -- most USB logic analyzers, even the super cheap ones, are 16-channel... Heck, if you wanted to make the circuit "complicated" -- I could draw up something that automatically iterated through the channels for you at the press of a single button, switching at variable speed with a pot, a 555, a resistor and cap, and a couple 4017s and 4051s. You'd only need /one/ channel for that -- so you could even use an o-scope there. Heck, I could do it with that circuit and my old, old Tektronix 422... I'm honestly surprised that this sort of idea hasn't been mentioned yet. ___ arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook Send large attachments to arm-netb...@files.phcomp.co.uk
Re: [Arm-netbook] Testing: GPIO
...BTW, those SCL and SDA lines on a VGA connector are for a nifty signal coming from your monitor. It's called EDID and it's basically how every modern OS magically knows what to do with the monitor it wants to display on, regardless of the specs or origin of said monitor. If you've ever had a cheap VGA cable where all the pins are present on the connectors but those two lines are disconnected internally, you have experience with what happens when you eff with those wires. Best to leave them alone! On Thu, Mar 1, 2018 at 5:02 PM, Richard Wilbur wrote: > If we did decide to roll a v1.8 micro-desktop board, it would afford > us the opportunity to bring two of the presently unconnected GPIO18-21 > lines to the expansion header in place of VESA_SCL and VESA_SDA (which > are after all available on pins 15 and 12 of the VGA connector). If > VESA_SCL and VESA_SDA are more useful on the expansion header then, by > all means, forget this suggestion. > > The other option to accommodate all our GPIO goodness would be to > replace J5 (2x10 header) with a 2x11 or 2x12 header allowing us to > bring all the GPIO pins to the expansion header (the only difference > being whether we would prefer to retain VESA_SCL and VESA_SDA in the > header). > > ___ > arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk > http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook > Send large attachments to arm-netb...@files.phcomp.co.uk > ___ arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook Send large attachments to arm-netb...@files.phcomp.co.uk
Re: [Arm-netbook] Testing: GPIO
Oh LOL. VGA is analog, and has six wires for color (red signal, red ground, ditto each for blue and green). It's not /exactly/ serial (serial as I understand it is inherently digital, which VGA is *ahem* very much not) but the paradigm sort of fits. RGBTTL is parallel. You have one wire per bit of color. So that's 18 wires. Plus your sync lines... which may or may not match VGA signal standards, I'm not sure. If you actually manage to figure out how to get that hooked up correclty, let me know ;) (Hint, it's doable, but you need additional components. There's a cheap way, and there's an easy way, and they are two *very* different ways...) Much easier suggestion: get a small LCD. *ANY* small LCD. Like a five or seven inch display at the largest. Raw panel, no driver board. Get the datasheet and a compatible connector. (If you source from eBay this is very easy; those are almost all commodity displays with available datasheets.) If it's a SMALL DISPLAY it *will* be RGBTTL, 90%+ of the time (I've seen one exception to this ever and it was in an off-brand portable DVD player). Wire it up. Wire it to the card connector. Add power. If you get a screen that works, you've done it right. ___ arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook Send large attachments to arm-netb...@files.phcomp.co.uk
Re: [Arm-netbook] pyra computer
Well, that didn't work out. Luke, can I please ask you to hold out till Sunday? I have company tomorrow helping with that room and I'll be busy all day with that. I'm truly sorry to have to ask... ___ arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook Send large attachments to arm-netb...@files.phcomp.co.uk
Re: [Arm-netbook] pyra computer
FYI -- mostly to Luke -- I've got a two-tier logo design drawn out on paper, just haven't had a chance to scan it yet. I have a doc appointment today -- gave myself a friggin limp trying to empty out that room that got leaked in -- when I get back from the docs cussing me out, I'll try and see if I can get my scanner to work. It's unfortunately in that problem room, but it itself escaped water damage. I just have to run a power cord real quick like. That should be about 4-4:30pm Eastern US time, with results hitting this list shortly thereafter... if I need more time, I'll let ya'll know. ___ arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook Send large attachments to arm-netb...@files.phcomp.co.uk
Re: [Arm-netbook] pyra computer
Last from phone - got to go, will get back to you later... but this is still easily doable. On Feb 15, 2018 11:43 AM, "Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton" wrote: > --- > crowd-funded eco-conscious hardware: https://www.crowdsupply.com/eoma68 > > > On Thu, Feb 15, 2018 at 4:40 PM, Christopher Havel > wrote: > > Quickie from my phone, sorry. > > not a problem > > > I think the world is not full of stupid people. Two similar but distinct > > logos should not be a challenge for the general population... even in the > > USA, where education is somewhat questionable in quality, or in African > > countries where education is *ahem* borderline extant. You don't have to > be > > able to name e.g. pink and blue in order to know them as different... > > > > Someone with an iq below say 75 /might/ have trouble - but someone with > an > > iq that's also a thermostat setting is going to have a tremendous > challenge > > just generally navigating through the world as-is, and we can therefore > > ignore that use case. > > statistically unfortunately the number of 75 IQ outliers increases > massively with sample size. if 100 million is not enough to satisfy > you that we cannot take risks, increase it by an order of magnitude to > a billion people. > > sorry chris. really, we can't mess about with "options" here. it's > one option or it's nothing at all. "any colour as long as it's > black". > > l. > > ___ > arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk > http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook > Send large attachments to arm-netb...@files.phcomp.co.uk ___ arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook Send large attachments to arm-netb...@files.phcomp.co.uk
Re: [Arm-netbook] pyra computer
Quickie from my phone, sorry. I think the world is not full of stupid people. Two similar but distinct logos should not be a challenge for the general population... even in the USA, where education is somewhat questionable in quality, or in African countries where education is *ahem* borderline extant. You don't have to be able to name e.g. pink and blue in order to know them as different... Someone with an iq below say 75 /might/ have trouble - but someone with an iq that's also a thermostat setting is going to have a tremendous challenge just generally navigating through the world as-is, and we can therefore ignore that use case. On Feb 15, 2018 11:26 AM, "Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton" wrote: > --- > crowd-funded eco-conscious hardware: https://www.crowdsupply.com/eoma68 > > > On Thu, Feb 15, 2018 at 4:13 PM, Christopher Havel > wrote: > > So... have the word "EOMA68" in the logo for both tiers, > > no tiers. too dangerous, too confusing. > > > just have > > something that universally indicates "premium" or "certified" or "extra" > or > > "plus" in the "EOMA68=Certified" logo, > > which means "optional" which means "confusion". no, sorry chris. > > > Luke, with all due respect, it's kind of obvious that you're not even > > trying here. > > i'm trying *really hard* to get across that the risk when you have a > hundred million people buying "stuff" it's a totally different > ballgame. > > if this was only maybe 50,000 people world-wide even in my wildest > dreams, i simply would not be bothering. at all. > > can you reassure me that out of a HUNDRED MILLION people there will > be ZERO CONFUSION over what a different colour means? > > > > ...feck it. I've got to get ready for some errands, it's that day of the > > week. I'll draw up examples and show you, when I get back later. It'll > be a > > few hours. > > it's appreciated... but no, i do appreciate what you're saying, i do > appreciate the distinction you're trying to make and unless you > can provide GUARANTEED reassurance that there will be ZERO confusion > in the eyes of hundreds of millions of users... no fear, no > uncertainty, no doubt WHATSOEVER, the answer really does have to be > no. > > can you do that? > > l. > > ___ > arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk > http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook > Send large attachments to arm-netb...@files.phcomp.co.uk ___ arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook Send large attachments to arm-netb...@files.phcomp.co.uk
Re: [Arm-netbook] pyra computer
So... have the word "EOMA68" in the logo for both tiers, just have something that universally indicates "premium" or "certified" or "extra" or "plus" in the "EOMA68=Certified" logo, and have that something NOT be in the other logo. (A yellow or gold-colored award-ribbon symbol comes to mind, but that's just me.) Luke, with all due respect, it's kind of obvious that you're not even trying here. This is super easy stuff. This is "grade school" easy. You should not be flunking art class over this! ...feck it. I've got to get ready for some errands, it's that day of the week. I'll draw up examples and show you, when I get back later. It'll be a few hours. ___ arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook Send large attachments to arm-netb...@files.phcomp.co.uk
Re: [Arm-netbook] pyra computer
On Thu, Feb 15, 2018 at 9:52 AM, Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton wrote: > if specific to one country that would be fine chris. EOMA68 like > HDMI and BLE is not intended for one country. it's global. Hence why I said "in a local language to the geographic region" where the intended market is. Obviously there would be more than one of these. Each manufacturer would be required to write it in eg their own local language, be that English, Simplified Chinese, some Sanskrit dialect, or whatever. If they're selling to another region, then THAT region's language takes precedence -- for example, if a US company wanted to sell to the Tamil Tigers (which would be problematic, but for other reasons) -- they would write the words "EOMA68 Certified" in Tamil. If you want to be extra careful, since English really is something of a Lingua Franca across the globe at this point, you could require it to be written TWICE -- once in English and once in the local language. Again, this isn't rocket science... I really don't understand the resistance to what is actually a simple and elegant solution that would cause a minimum of confusion, if any at all... ___ arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook Send large attachments to arm-netb...@files.phcomp.co.uk
Re: [Arm-netbook] pyra computer
Another quick phone post. YedIf the problem with my idea is the word "certified" - DON'T USE THAT WORD IN THE LOGO but require it somewhere nearby in a local language to the intended geographic region where the device is to be sold. Also, the very idea of my two levels, two labels approach is to avoid confusion. This isn't rocket science. Put away the hydrazine lol. On Feb 15, 2018 7:34 AM, "Jean Flamelle" wrote: > > nobody gets confused, world-wide, about the Certification Mark "BLE" > > or the Certification Mark "HDMI". > > > > argh can't read the rest too busy, so sorry. REALLY limited time right > > now. > > Don't worry, I think I understand your point of view and I'm trying to > put it in terms everyone else can follow. At least, I hope that's what > I'm doing. > > Those are pretty good examples of what I'm talking about. > > If someone implements bad HDMI, then I assume they'll get sued if they > even mention the word HDMI. Likewise if a hobbyist documents hacking > an HDMI port to connect to a chip inside an adapter that converts it > composite video, they'll run into either geo-restrictions or legal > trouble, if that adapter fries the HDMI port. > > In the US people can say whatever they want, but, elsewhere in the > world, they'll say 18-pin audio-video port to save their butts. And, > again, for good reason because of scam artists exploiting language > barriers. > > BLE they will say custom wifi. > > --- > > Luke has mentioned that if Intel makes a card the even looks slightly > confuse-able for an EOMA68, without being certified then that would be > infringement of the certification. > > I presume HDMI has probably tested this in various courts, because, if > a someone implements bad HDMI, they can't just get away with it by > calling it something else. So that's another way how certification > law, could be stricter than copyright or trademark law. But, I find it > hard to believe patents owned by HDMI wouldn't be involved in securing > a case like that. > > ___ > arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk > http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook > Send large attachments to arm-netb...@files.phcomp.co.uk ___ arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook Send large attachments to arm-netb...@files.phcomp.co.uk
Re: [Arm-netbook] pyra computer
Quick post from phone, in my way to bed. Please excuse top-posting and occasional typos, if present. I have a proposal for Luke that I think would solve this problem instantly. Let there be two "levels" of EOMA68. "EOMA68" by itself can be construed from now on to mean "compatible with the standard in some reasonable way". Then, /with a separate and distinct but visually similar/ logo - "EOMA68 Certified", which is exactly that. Anything that can accept an EOMA68 CPU Card (Luke - is that still the right term for the card with the guts?) is at least EOMA68. That's your eBay-and-AliExpress bin, as well as where the hobbyists lurk, and everyone already knows that junk to be questionable at best, so we take advantage of that and use it for our own purposes. HOWEVER, we simultaneously make sure that everyone /also/ knows that the 'good stuff' is EOMA68-Certified. If it's not -Certified, then it's not trustworthy. Will it work? Maybe. We won't guarantee anything and we won't warranty anything that isn't -Certified. In fact, if we want to be paranoid and iron fisted - stick something in the license that voids all warranties if an EOMA68-Certified device is connected to an EOMA68 non-certified device. That's rude as heck, IMNSHO, but it does the job. Of course, that's the so called 'Freemium' way of doing things - I friggin hate 'freemium', it's usually incredibly dishonest - but, hey, maybe we can do it right. What say you, Luke? Float it or sink it... ow, my thumbs... g'nite ya'll... On Feb 15, 2018 12:32 AM, "Jean Flamelle" wrote: > It is also important to note that for all intensive an diy project > could receive a certification. > > Also if you read the first line of that wikipedia article: > > "Reasonable and non-discriminatory (RAND) terms, also known as fair, > reasonable, and non-discriminatory (FRAND) terms, denote a voluntary > licensing commitment that standards organizations often request from > the owner of an intellectual property right (usually a patent) that > is, or may become, essential to practice a technical standard." > > Reading between the lines, the point of the "intellectual property" is > that it is the leverage has over companies. Without patents EOMA is > only a word and EOMA has no legal authority to stop imitators from > just using a slightly different word. With a patent however, a > standards organization can legally issue a cease-and-desist order. > > So this brings up the tough question of how can the EOMA standard > exert any authority without patents? > > Also what will motivate companies to hire Luke as a consultant? That's > important too, am I wrong? > > Community support through donations wins Luke a certain degree of > independence, so Luke won't have to charge many people consultation > fees and can give advice more-solely based on merit. Here's an > interesting question though: what motivates people to donate and will > that scale as more companies gain interest causing Luke to inevitably > need to train people to act as consultants on behalf of the EOMA > project? My hope is, yes. > > One way to have leverage is for EOMA to become so popular, companies > without the mark are actively avoided by a significant fraction of the > population in given places. This is not to be underestimated, because > food certifications have demonstrated a lot of success with this > strategy. > > However we should also consider: > The patent system isn't necessarily broken, if we consider the rampant > abuse to be the result of scammers. We could see copyleft "public > commons" patents which are licensed openly to the public so long as > certain rules pertaining to certain morals are followed. Like with GPL > violations, any member of the public should be able to make a lawsuit > against a violator of these rules. > > With that possibility in mind, abuse could get worse with copyleft > principles, because rules could be stupid or misguided. FRAND already > comes into play with that, so there is already an appeals mechanism in > place against abusive copyleft or open patent licenses (if I > understand correctly). Perhaps patent courts could expand to judge as > fair or unfair the rules of an open patent license. Then such > standards organizations could form around protecting people and > certain morals, by prosecuting violators of these open patents. > Ultimately this could easily turn into an extortion racket with people > living off of legal and consultation fees. Such an organization should > live solely on donations and only conduct legal cases pro-bono. > > This is were things get weird. > > Aren't you asking, "wait if you just implied we should consider living > off of consultation and legal fees immoral extortion, why are you > defending patents as a form of leverage used by companies who would be > able to do that extortion.. you look like you're contradicting > yourself up and down"? > > Well, the fact remains the public benefits if the public shares the > morals being pro
Re: [Arm-netbook] pyra computer
Having reviewed the message in question (as near as I can determine... I believe it to be Ron's email, 11 Feb 2016 at 12:09pm) I still see no problems posed by what Ron is doing or saying. Luke, I notice that you have not directly responded to any of the ongoing commentary. I would invite you to speak up again and address what has been said since your last message. ___ arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook Send large attachments to arm-netb...@files.phcomp.co.uk
Re: [Arm-netbook] pyra computer
A belated thank you, Tor -- however, the burden of proof rightfully lies with Luke. Further, I have a room in my house to clean out after a catastrophic roof leak (not to mention an impending fight with insurance, which I'm most certainly not looking forward to), and a doctor's appointment on Friday to discuss the limp I've given myself in that now weeks-long process. I don't have the time -- nor do I have the inclination -- to sift and sort and filter through ten plus years of electronic conversation to prove myself wrong. As such, my request stands -- Luke, and specifically /only/ Luke (unless he appoints someone to his defense), when you have time, please present at least a few messages (or chains thereof) from which a case in your favor can be made. In the meantime, I'd ask what under the law would be called a "stay of execution" (pausing the clock) on banning Ron. No, I can't /force/ it, but it's the right thing to do during the controversy, which is why I'm /requesting/ it. ___ arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook Send large attachments to arm-netb...@files.phcomp.co.uk
Re: [Arm-netbook] pyra computer
I honestly don't know of a message archive, and my skills at searching through ANY archive have historically been a bit lacking at best. When you have time, point me to (at least a few) specific messages in an archive that make your case, and I'll go from there. In the meantime, I still think it would be unwise to ban Ron. ___ arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook Send large attachments to arm-netb...@files.phcomp.co.uk
Re: [Arm-netbook] pyra computer
I don't see that Ron is doing what you're asserting, therefore I cannot answer your question as you have requested me to do so. Ron is carrying out a hobbyist project with a product you are seeking to sell. Nothing more, nothing less. There are acres of paper in every law school's public library that attest to the fact that, historically, the liability for such projects lies with the hobbyist -- and that precedent goes back basically to the beginning of time. It's essentially unquestionable. (It's also good, old-fashioned common sense!) If you must insist on seeing that as something else, and therefore an existential threat to your own project, then you /really/ need to talk to your lawyers (and, perhaps, a few other professionals as well), because that would indicate that you have some significant learning to do. I would argue that that learning should come before any further progress on anything else happens, although as you rightly pointed out, I haven't the ability to enforce that sort of a thing. I understand that you have the /authority/ to shut him down. I myself am not questioning /that/ -- simply whether or not you should /use/ that authority. To me, that would be gross overreach. As a metaphor, I'll point out that every US President since 1945 or so has had the authority to essentially rain nuclear hell down over all of mankind. Thankfully, so far, every US President has seen fit not to use that authority. As I hinted last time, if what you are asserting was actually true, there would be no Instructables -- or, for that matter, Arduino, probably -- and the world would in fact be a very, very different place for it. I know I hate admitting when I'm wrong -- everybody does -- but sometimes it's easier (and it's always better) than insisting to the end that I'm right and going down in spectacular flames, somewhat like the Hindenburg. On Tue, Feb 13, 2018 at 3:38 PM, Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton wrote: > On Tue, Feb 13, 2018 at 8:24 PM, Christopher Havel > wrote: > > > Ron is not doing anything that will harm your project, Luke. > > he's calling into question my authority and the right as a Copyright > Holder of the word - and standard - "EOMA68", chris. that's very very > serious. and also publicly recorded. you can double-check that by > re-reading the messages. > > i am REQUIRED to respond to that - by explicitly asserting that i AM > the sole exclusive Copyright Holder of EOMA68 and that i AM the sole > exclusive authority over the EOMA68 Standard, and that i cannot > tolerate people claiming that they are blithely and arbitrarily > permitted to ignore my authority under Copyright Law. > > i have to take this responsibility seriously, chris, otherwise we > might as well shut the entire project down, right now. > > do you wish me to terminate this project - the list, the crowdfunding > project, and to delete the EOMA68 standard page and to terminate the > rhombus-tech project hosting - RIGHT NOW? > > please answer very simply, yes or no. > > i am quite happy to do so if people do not wish to take this > seriously and respect my authority, position and role as the Copyright > Holder and Guardian of the EOMA68 Standard. > > l. > > ___ > arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk > http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook > Send large attachments to arm-netb...@files.phcomp.co.uk > ___ arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook Send large attachments to arm-netb...@files.phcomp.co.uk
Re: [Arm-netbook] pyra computer
Ron is not doing anything that will harm your project, Luke. You're seeing daggers in shadows and neither are really there. The sort of thing that Ron is doing happens all the time, nobody in corporate anything has a real problem with it, and the liability is /always/ assigned to the person carrying out the work -- in this case that's a third or fourth party, not you -- if it wasn't like that, there wouldn't BE an Instructables website. There's a TON of precedent here that you're completely ignoring out of irrational fear. You're being extremely myopic and paranoid, without warrant, and --like I said-- you're becoming something of a bully because of it. God, the Universe, whatever you believe in -- SOMEBODY out there gave you a noggin. Use it properly. (Hint: how would the insurance industry deal with the possibility, even, of an Instructables-like website, if liability was assigned to the copyright/trademark/etc holder of the original equipment...?) I would also note that, given that precedent, you are in danger of doing almost exactly the thing you want to avoid -- giving (in this case quite negative) unwarranted special treatment to a particular party in exclusion of all others. Or do you really feel like you must have an iron grip on absolutely everyone and everything that does anything with your work? IIRC, that's what Sony tried to do with Betamax, and we all know how /that/ turned out... ___ arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook Send large attachments to arm-netb...@files.phcomp.co.uk
Re: [Arm-netbook] pyra computer
I think you're being a bit literal there. I don't see any problem with what Ron is doing. As far as I can tell, he's well within US Copyright Law's "Fair Use" clause (17 USC Section 107). I realize it's more likely to be the Berne Convention that would apply here -- but the Fair Use Clause is something of a benchmark. I don't see that Ron is intending to derive personal gain or profit from the use case he's come up with. He's just kind of trying to have fun with a hobbyist project. Even if that hobbyist project ends up on e.g. Instructables -- that doesn't reflect on YOU anywhere near as much as it does HIM. Technically, yes, you've made the project possible, but it's HIS project, and it's made pretty clear to anyone who subsequently takes on that project that THEY as a third party (at best) are personally liable for their own feckups -- and I would bet a goodly sum of money (if I had it) that the courts would be all to glad to remind them of this, if it came to that. You'd probably even be able to recoup court costs if anyone was stupid enough to challenge you directly on that one -- it's simply too well established. Forgive me for sayin' -- but you're coming across as something of a bully here. Your concerns are largely unfounded, given a reasonable, fair, and equitable court system... which, at least for these purposes, is something quite reasonable to expect. I realize I'm not in command, but I'm still going to ask you politely to lay off here. ___ arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook Send large attachments to arm-netb...@files.phcomp.co.uk
Re: [Arm-netbook] pyra computer
Isn't that a little harsh? Particularly with respect to the time limit. Suppose he gets bumped by some old lady's jeep and can't respond in time because he's in hospital. Unlikely, but possible. Also, I will point out that there are ways for Ron to feck around with you -- calling it a "PCMCIA computer card", for example. We all know that there's only one of those and so we know EXACTLY what it refers to -- but because it's not the specific sequence of letters and numbers you've trademarked, you can't do anything to reign him in -- despite the fact that you'll probably still have the same liability concerns. Don't make enemies where you don't have to, Luke. I'm just sayin'. ___ arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook Send large attachments to arm-netb...@files.phcomp.co.uk
Re: [Arm-netbook] asus eeepc 7inch, modifying it to accept a pc card
If the lid assembly in that netbook is standard, it should be relatively easy to get into. There will be screws hidden, usually under the rubber bumpers that prevent scuff marks from appearing on the keyboard/base part when you close the lid. Take out those screws and run a "spudger" or a small hobby knife (of the "exacto" variety) around the edge to release several inevitable sets of catches. The bezel should come right off. You will likely have to then remove more screws to remove the LCD panel proper, as the information you want is on its back. Be careful with cables -- they are typically a little fragile -- and your netbook is old enough that repair parts sources on eBay are starting to dwindle... ___ arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook Send large attachments to arm-netb...@files.phcomp.co.uk
Re: [Arm-netbook] asus eeepc 7inch, modifying it to accept a pc card
The regulator does not come into play if you feed it directly with 5v. I don't think the 3.3v pin is an allowable input, though... I remember that the 5v pin can go either way like that, but I dunno about the 3.3v one. Personally, if you're feeding it /regulated/ 5v -- desolder the regulator. You're better off without it. It's a little four-pin SOT that looks like a transistor with a tab pin... the specific part number is A1117. Word to the wise on the $5-8 eBay USB soldering irons -- they work remarkably well, but use ONLY with a power bank. There's a Scottish bloke on YouTube calls himself "Big Clive Dot Com" -- he has a segment from 2016 or so on these irons, and he explains why I'm saying this far better than I can explain it myself. Go watch the episode, it's here (~20min, and worth every second) --> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-8D5t6TJYU ...also... If eBay is to be believed on part numbers here -- you should have an AUO brand A070VW04 screen in that thing. If it's a stock screen, then according to what I'm looking at, you don't need my display, you've already got one that's 24bit TTL parallel. Here's the datasheet I found --> http://www.taopanel.com/ auo/datasheet/A070VW04-V0.pdf If youi WANT my display -- again, just pay shipping -- I can send it along. I'll get model # and datasheet upon profession of interest. It'll give you a few extra pixels, if you put it in, but you'll definitely need to cut down that ginormous bezel to fit the thing -- it looks like they put a seven inch display in a ten inch netbook, ha! (Insert inevitable intelligence-comparison joke here.) I do remember that it was from a real cheap pile-of-doodoo "eReader" tablet that my mother bought herself about three months before Borders Books fell flat... Velocity Micro Cruz R101 is the make and model. Usual horribly-cheap fare... it was probably outdated when new. It never went above IIRC Android 2.something IIRC, had a 600MHz or so VIA SoC that was probably overclocked and inevitably undercooled, and was just all-around awful to use. It positively /reeked/ of cheap. On Sun, Feb 11, 2018 at 5:15 PM, Pičugins Arsenijs wrote: > > Oh -- and for the keyboard -- look into the work done with custom > keyboards > > and a microcontroller called the "Teensy" -- the code should be > compatible > > with an Arduino Micro -- of which cheap clones can be had on eBay. To be > > clear, you want the Arduino MICRO with the ATMEGA32U4 in it, and > > specifically NOT the similar Arduino NANO with the ATMEGA328 in it. The > > '32U4 part has on-chip USB so you can do USB-HID stuff with it. > > A Teensy could work, indeed. The issue is - the keyboard needs 24 (16+8) > pins. Now that I think of it, we can use 32U4, it has 8 PCINT pins (that we > can use for 8 rows) and there are 18 GPIOs remaining - enough to implement > I2C (without the INT pin, though) or PS/2 - or, indeed, use USB. > > > I will warn > > you that the cheap Arduino clone boards tend to use a particularly touchy > > voltage regulator -- I've fried one of those boards that way, it's not > > hard... > > Does the regulator come into play if we feed the ATMega32U4 from either 5V > or 3.3V directly into VCC? I guess it doesn't. > > ___ > arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk > http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook > Send large attachments to arm-netb...@files.phcomp.co.uk > ___ arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook Send large attachments to arm-netb...@files.phcomp.co.uk
Re: [Arm-netbook] asus eeepc 7inch, modifying it to accept a pc card
I'll see what I can find on the screen... eBay does not reliably list model #s but who knows. Oh -- and for the keyboard -- look into the work done with custom keyboards and a microcontroller called the "Teensy" -- the code should be compatible with an Arduino Micro -- of which cheap clones can be had on eBay. To be clear, you want the Arduino MICRO with the ATMEGA32U4 in it, and specifically NOT the similar Arduino NANO with the ATMEGA328 in it. The '32U4 part has on-chip USB so you can do USB-HID stuff with it. I will warn you that the cheap Arduino clone boards tend to use a particularly touchy voltage regulator -- I've fried one of those boards that way, it's not hard... On Sun, Feb 11, 2018 at 4:58 PM, Pičugins Arsenijs wrote: > > Quick post from my phone -- existing PCMCIA card cages from random > laptops > > are a dime-a-dozen on fleaBay, if you want to go that route. They would > > likely need minor modifications to the keying, but that's hardly a > > showstopper. > > True, but they have proprietary pinouts, can easily be as big as to be > unwieldly, and they're more expensive - I just checked Taobao and a PCMCIA > socket there is 72 cents, I'll get 10pcs. > > > Ron, did you see my previous email? I have an LCD panel that may work for > > you, to replace the original in the Eee - but I won't know if it's > > compatible, without that part number. If it *is* compatible, I'll ask you > > to cover shipping costs and that's all. > > I can check it tomorrow, too - I'm not at my workplace right now. I also > imagine you can look up eBay for "asus eee 701 panel" and find the model > numbers. > > > I know /almost/ for a fact that my display will work with an EOMA68 card, > > as it takes a parallel TTL input -- somewhere I think I have the > datasheet > > -- I just need your part number to know if they are physically > > interchangeable without getting out the craft knife... I suspect the > aspect > > ratios are different, though -- mine is straight SVGA (800x600), and > IIRC, > > Eee PC netbooks were always widescreen -- either 800x480 or 1024x600... > > Right, EEE PC 701 has a 800x480 screen. So, I'm guessing that the display > bezel mod will be necessary, too. > > ___ > arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk > http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook > Send large attachments to arm-netb...@files.phcomp.co.uk > ___ arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook Send large attachments to arm-netb...@files.phcomp.co.uk
Re: [Arm-netbook] asus eeepc 7inch, modifying it to accept a pc card
Quick post from my phone -- existing PCMCIA card cages from random laptops are a dime-a-dozen on fleaBay, if you want to go that route. They would likely need minor modifications to the keying, but that's hardly a showstopper. Ron, did you see my previous email? I have an LCD panel that may work for you, to replace the original in the Eee - but I won't know if it's compatible, without that part number. If it *is* compatible, I'll ask you to cover shipping costs and that's all. I know /almost/ for a fact that my display will work with an EOMA68 card, as it takes a parallel TTL input -- somewhere I think I have the datasheet -- I just need your part number to know if they are physically interchangeable without getting out the craft knife... I suspect the aspect ratios are different, though -- mine is straight SVGA (800x600), and IIRC, Eee PC netbooks were always widescreen -- either 800x480 or 1024x600... On Feb 11, 2018 4:40 PM, "Pičugins Arsenijs" wrote: > > This post is about modifying an asus eeepc 7inch notebook into accepting > > a pc card. You are invite to contribute. > > Following up on the "RK3399" email: > > > For your information, I am in a censorship dispute with lkcl. I do > > not know what he will come up with. Maybe some or all of my > > posts will be stopped. > > I'm going to get an EEEoma Wiki up in the following week and start > documenting everything there; if you end up losing posting privileges, feel > free to email me directly. > > > I do not follow lkcl's opposition on this. > > He's trying to make sure that the resulting design is safe and 1) won't > ruin reputation of EOMA68 2) will be a good reference design for other > designers that want to make EOMA68-compatible things, so that their designs > won't ruin the EOMA68 reputation. > > > It is a weller sp 40l 40w. > > It seems to have a wide tip, so I'm wondering if it's suitable for > soldering things like a 0.8-pitch connector... We'll see. At worst, you can > get a working soldering iron for $5 from China, and a set of good tips for > $5 more. > > > In case I did not mention it before. I have a raspberry pi 0 and > > a beaglebone black revision c if that could be useful. > > Those could be useful for testing, I think. > > > I still have the asus eeepc's mainboard. > > That's great =) So we likely can harvest a couple of chips from it if > necessary. > > > The pocketchip's keyboard is an i2c keyboard. Is the asus > > eeepc's keyboard also an i2c keyboard? > > The pocketchip's keyboard, just like the EEE PC keyboard, is not I2C by > itself - it's a key matrix, and there's usually a controller that connects > to this key matrix. In PocketCHIP's case, it talks I2C - in case of EEE PC, > that controller is a part of Embedded Controller on the EEE PC mainboard > (which controls a whole load of functions), so we're making our own > controller by taking a microcontroller, putting it on a board with a 28-pin > connector and writing a firmware for it. > > > Instead of > > modifying the asus eeepc's keyboard into an usb > > keyboard, what about i2c connecting the keyboard to > > the pc card? > > Either that, or use PS2 - since we likely will have a PS2-USB chip anyway > (for the touchpad). The benefit of using PS/2 is that we won't need to > write our own kernel driver - however, we will need to find a way to > reliably source PS2-UAB converter chips, or converter boards. > > > To my knowledge you can use the > > beaglebone black revision c to test i2c devices. > > You can also use the Pi Zero for the same task, if I understand you > correctly (just FYI). > > > I have this forestalled remark. I would prefer not to cut > > in the asus eeepc's cabinet. If I do it wrongly, I do not have > > another cabinet. > > Hmm. That's tricky - I was planning to suggest the "cutting" approach, but > I don't know of a good way to cut into the cabinet so that it's easy and > mistake-proof. Thankfully, I have 2 spare cases to experiment with, and I > have some ideas =) > > > Instead at the bottom of the asus eeepc there is a removable > > plate. There is a balk which likely can be removed. I would > > prefer to insert the pc card by that plate. > > I'll measure it and see if it's suitable - that is, if we can even insert > the card. I can't yet imagine how it would work, but I will think about it. > (the space inside the EEE case is quite limited, so there's only so many > ways to keep the card in). > > > I have not been able to find something like the pcmcia/eoma > > 68 breakout board. Should we not find a shop to buy > > one? > > I haven't yet found PCMCIA breakouts (or EOMA68 breakouts, for that > matter), so it's not a commodity item, and I'm guessing that places that > have them will have it at high prices, just because it's not that popular. > Lkcl has breakouts listed on Crowdsupply, but I imagine there's some time > until they will be manufactured and available. Until that, we can either > work on other tasks - and, later on, we can design our ow
Re: [Arm-netbook] asus eeepc 7inch, modifying it to accept a pc card
Ron, it occurs to me that I may have something in my junk bin for you. Can you get me the model # of the LCD panel itself in that system? You'll have to take the lid apart... should be a bunch of mumbo-jumbo on the back of the panel in large letters. If you're not sure -- host a picture of the label on one of those many image-hosting sites out there, and post up the link here. I'll know it when I see it. ___ arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook Send large attachments to arm-netb...@files.phcomp.co.uk
Re: [Arm-netbook] Your FOSDEM 2018 talk titled 'Crowdsupply EOMA68 Progress Report'
Wrong thread, Fred :P ___ arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook Send large attachments to arm-netb...@files.phcomp.co.uk
Re: [Arm-netbook] RK3399
Ground is 0v. It's hard for me to explain, but it works both as sort of a reference for whatever you use as +V supply (VCC) and as a return path... if you have two power supplies, unless there are optocouplers involved, you /want/ their grounds connected, as a general rule. That, however, does not guarantee further trouble. Needing two supplies to power one device typically results in one supply or the other trying to take on most of the load, overloading, and blowing up -- leaving the second one to do the same since it can't handle the full power of the circuitry ___ arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook Send large attachments to arm-netb...@files.phcomp.co.uk
Re: [Arm-netbook] updates from eoma68-a20
Replying by phone, usual constraints. Sorry. Your reply makes a lot of sense. I understand better now. That's quite an operation... On Jan 27, 2018 6:15 PM, "Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton" wrote: > On Sat, Jan 27, 2018 at 10:45 PM, Christopher Havel > wrote: > > >> the problem is they need to be re-balled. > > > > > > Forgive both naïveté and apparent stupidity (or at least inexperience) -- > > but why? A conductor conducts, be it a copper trace, an aluminum wire, > or a > > lump of solder in between the two. What's a little solder reuse between > > friends? > > the solder balls on BGA and FBGA are specifically calculated to be a > size that will spread evenly and create a successful circuit, whilst > at the same time being of exactly the right size to support the weight > of the IC itself against surface tension and not get so squashed so > flat that they cause a short-circuit to the pad next door. > > when you REMOVE a BGA or FBGA IC from a circuit, that ball had > ALREADY been destroyed and obviously needs to be replaced. > > with a ball of the exact same size. > > that costs money and time. > > l. > > ___ > arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk > http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook > Send large attachments to arm-netb...@files.phcomp.co.uk ___ arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook Send large attachments to arm-netb...@files.phcomp.co.uk
Re: [Arm-netbook] updates from eoma68-a20
On Sat, Jan 27, 2018 at 5:40 PM, Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton wrote: > > the problem is they need to be re-balled. Forgive both naïveté and apparent stupidity (or at least inexperience) -- but why? A conductor conducts, be it a copper trace, an aluminum wire, or a lump of solder in between the two. What's a little solder reuse between friends? ___ arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook Send large attachments to arm-netb...@files.phcomp.co.uk
Re: [Arm-netbook] updates from eoma68-a20
Oy, Luke, pardon a bit of an oddball idea -- my specialty, everyone elses' headache, typically -- but if you're desperate enough -- how much would it cost to buy a fat stack of DIMMs with the right chips and hire some bored dude with a hot air machine or reballing station and the skill to use it, to extract what you need and recycle the rest...? I know that's not the, er, usual way of acquiring chips of /any/ kind, but it sounds like we're approaching throw-it-at-the-wall-and-see-what-sticks territory anyways, so I thought I'd offer that one up, see how much glue it has to it :P ___ arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook Send large attachments to arm-netb...@files.phcomp.co.uk
Re: [Arm-netbook] Libre RISC-V SoC
I have a thin client with a 366MHz AMD Geode. YouTube anything (even @ 240p) almost literally sets it on fire, even with an extremely lightweight Linux distro on it. It doesn't so much skip frames as it does entire 10+sec chunks... and that's with 512MB RAM. I can put a gig in there, sort of... system has a low-level timing issue, I found out from an insider guy -- there is ONE make and model of 1gb PC2700 out there that will work. It's an APacer brand stick and it's absolutely hen's teeth because I've never found it. I've been looking for multiple years now... ___ arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook Send large attachments to arm-netb...@files.phcomp.co.uk
Re: [Arm-netbook] RK3399
Forgive another phone top-post, please, but -- I have an ASUS EeePC 1005HA that, if someone else had one, I could help with reverse engineering. I will commit to getting the keyboard layout and the LCD datasheet (with the one caveat that the LCD datasheet must be freely available, i.e. not exclusively behind a paywall). I will NOT help with the battery or display cable, though. I realize that this has few environmental advantages over just binning the thing -- but you gotta get your feet wet somhow, and this looks to me like a great way to do that. If you'll excuse me, I have a copier power socket to glue back together now. See, my stepmother has a commercial-grade Koyocera (no, really, she does), and it apparently shook hands with a wall, cords and everything... this is what happens when you're the nerd in the family... ;) On Jan 22, 2018 8:35 PM, "Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton" wrote: > On Tue, Jan 23, 2018 at 1:26 AM, zap wrote: > > >> in other words: when you add up the amount of time and effort > >> proposed to be spent, and convert it to an actual dollar amount, i > >> estimate that it would come to an amount that would EASILY fund the > >> development of an entirely new type of computer. > >> > >> one that can be designed to be repaired, upgraded, respect software > >> freedom and not end up in landfill. > >> > >> ... .yeh? > > You are correct, and I wish I had realized this a lot sooner. My bad... > > yyehh i've been down this evaluation path a number of times now on > this list, with different groups of people at different times. it... > kinda puts a dampener on peoples' enthusiasm for doing home-grown > "hackaday" style projects... but... hackaday projects are for people > to learn (and teach other people) electronics. this project is > *specifically* about reducing *world-wide* e-waste on a *massive* > scale by making desirable long-term upgradeable computing appliances, > thus keeping stuff out of landfill as long as possible... and that > *has* to be done not by disassembling pre-existing deeply flawed > "Designed for Obsolescence and Manufacture" products but by going > *right* back to the very source of the problem. > > totally different approach that's really hard for some people to > understand or accept, the scale is about a hundred thousand times > larger than they're able to get their minds around. > > l. > > ___ > arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk > http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook > Send large attachments to arm-netb...@files.phcomp.co.uk ___ arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook Send large attachments to arm-netb...@files.phcomp.co.uk
Re: [Arm-netbook] Libre RISC-V SoC
Whoo, excitement. I *really* wish I could help but I'm kind of a perpetually budding hobbyist here. Let me know if you need something strung up in 7400- or 4000-series logic, tho -- *that* is a language I can speak ;) ___ arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook Send large attachments to arm-netb...@files.phcomp.co.uk
Re: [Arm-netbook] RK3399
BTW -- not *everything* is nearly as complex as Luke would have you believe. Close, but not quite, and the two doozies more than make up for the easier bits... Keyboards are invariably a passive switch matrix (look it up if you don't know -- you should, it's worth your time) and not that hard to reverse-engineer if you have a couple to burn through with a multimeter and hook probes. It's a matter of an afternoon or two. Touchpads are almost always either USB or PS/2 and not some alien bull (relatively speaking) like I2C or SPI unless they're bullt into a desktop keyboard (I have seen this, particularly with wireless keyboard/mouse combos). You probably can find a datasheet for the 'pad's controller chip and that will give up the info on how it connects to the world. It's the screen and battery interfaces that are going to get you and get you good, time-wise and effort-wise. LCDs are *very very very* rarely VGA (a *very* few *very* old laptops did that) and are often either LVDS or (if in a nearly brand-new machine) eDP. Once in a particularly blue moon, you'll potentially find one that runs parallel RGBTTL as its interface (my mother had a cheap tablet with an SVGA [800x600] screen that was RGBTTL.) The problem with LVDS is that the spec excludes a standard pinout and leaves that to the manufacturers -- so you've got to basically get in there with an old-fashioned oscilloscope and poke around until you have an understanding of which pin does what -- not a simple task when there's forty or fifty pins on a connector! ...oh, and some will be logic-level (typically 5v but sometimes 3.3v or even 1.8v) and some will *ahem* not be logic-level but rather analog or differential signals, which is why a logic analyzer won't do you here -- you'll blow its input circuits sky high. (...which you *really* don't want because logic analyzers are expensive... at least, the *useful* ones are.) RGBTTL is easier -- you can use a logic analyzer for that, if the datasheet doesn't have the pinout (which it basically always does) -- but, again, there's not really a standard there as far as pinout is concerned, and you have a fiddly surface-mount connector with remarkably tiny pin pitch to deal with as well -- after all, if you can actually solder to a flexible PCB (which is what those cables always are) without ruining it, you have soldering skills of near-mythical level and I have a few projects for you to help me with :P ). The battery invariably runs SMBus (short for System Management Bus) for communications, which is an I2C variant -- not too bad to deal with -- except that, like LVDS, there's no standard pinout, and oh by the way you need a charging circuit as well as knowing the commands to send and receive over SMBus to make it charge, discharge, and read out its level. Hint: the industry standard name for the controller chip in the battery is 'fuel guage', oddly enough -- you'll likely need to find its datasheet (good luck!) to get the commands, unless you really want to blackbox a battery that can literally burn your house down if you don't handle it with kid gloves. (Seriously, look up lithium battery fires on YouTube. If that stuff doesn't scare the p*ss out of you, either you're one serious pyromaniac or you have no bladder.) If you can handle all of that, you can do *exactly* what you're looking for. Personally, I'd rather figure out a way to basically make a portable desktop from readily available components (which I've done three times now, actually) and make do with that. ___ arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook Send large attachments to arm-netb...@files.phcomp.co.uk
Re: [Arm-netbook] RK3399
Quick follow-up (this time from my netbook) -- the 8086 and 8088 have a 20b address bus, so the address range is 0x0 to 0xF. Execution starts at location 0x0, according to the datasheet for the 8086 that I have on file. That *almost* makes sense if you only have 64k of memory in your system -- but a 20b address bus can support a full megabyte of memory -- and the 8086/8088 addresses memory and I/O separately, unlike eg the 6502 (a historical CPU, used in most Commodore and pre-Mac Apple computers -- in derivative forms, sometimes) where IO is mapped to specific memory addresses as a matter of course -- I'll let you decide which scheme is more efficient; personally I like the 6502's memory-mapped I/O, but that is indeed only one man's opinion... BTW -- the reason that I said "almost" above, is because the 8086/8088 chips execute 'up' from the start of ROM -- from 0x0 through to 0xF is the reserved area for the boot code, as opposed to (again) the 6502, which executes 'down' from 0x to... basically wherever it's told that ROM stops and I/O begins (it's RAM at the bottom, ROM at the top, and I/O in between, for that processor family). Conceivably, you could have a single jump instruction and address at the top of 64k of memory with the 8086/8088 CPUs, and put the boot code for your computer at the other end of that jump, but that's the only way to make that work with that amount of memory... ...but this is all low-level crap that you don't need to worry about unless you're actually building a computer from scratch (schematic diagram level) with an x86 CPU at the heart of it... in other words, for our purposes I've just spun another ball of fluff text. So I'll shut up. (Again.) ___ arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook Send large attachments to arm-netb...@files.phcomp.co.uk
Re: [Arm-netbook] RK3399
Forgive a top-post, please, Luke - I'm on my phone. Coreboot, IIRC, is a replacement for BIOS/UEFI. So if you have the original system's motherboard intact - in which case you cannot drop in the chip you want to drop in - you can replace the contents of what is essentially the boot ROM chip with coreboot. That's as far as that goes... In case you do not understand what BIOS and UEFI are, read on... When a computer is first turned on, the CPU automatically copies the contents of the BIOS (or UEFI) into RAM, which is called 'shadowing' the ROM. It then jumps to a specific address, hard-coded into the CPU, to start execution of part of those instructions. For the record, historical processors typically started either at 0x, assuming a 16b address bus, or at 0x. The 8086 and 8088 did something different, and I forget now what that address was, but it was in the middle somewhere, IIRC. *ahem* The code executed at boot is enough to test how much RAM is present and functional, and to bring up various parts and pieces of the system so that it can function cohesively and coherently. Hard drive interfaces and accessing. Some sort of display function for output. Keyboard and mouse interfaces. *Et cetera*. Once this is complete, and a limited 'sanity test' (POST, the Power On Self Test) is executed, the BIOS (UEFI) code loads the OS bootloader into RAM and begins executing that - whether it's GRUB or NTLDR, that is the part where the OS begins to take over. The bootloader pulls up the kernel and whatever init program is present, and away you go. ...all that to say that coreboot basically can't help you here, because all of that is what coreboot duplicates, and that's *all* it does. Sorry for the long yarn of explication, but I wanted to be thorough. My hand hurts now, though, so "here endeth the lesson", as my mother often says :) On Jan 18, 2018 9:35 PM, "Bill Kontos" wrote: > On Thu, Jan 18, 2018 at 6:58 PM, Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton > wrote: > > > no. > > > > it is a vast amount of work. the LCD has to be researched (if its > > datasheet is even available). a conversion circuit has to be designed > > and manufactuered and before that it is necesssary to work out if > > there is room for it. > > > > the keyboard hsa to be reverse-engineered > > > > the trackpad has to be reverse-engineered > > > > the connectors have to be researched (heights, sizes), PCB heights > > measured or you have to cut holes in the casework to get the PCB > > to fit. > > > > the battery has to be researched and reverse-engineered, paying > > attention to safety as you could set fire to it if you get it wrong. > > > > What if the laptop in question has coreboot support? > > ___ > arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk > http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook > Send large attachments to arm-netb...@files.phcomp.co.uk ___ arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook Send large attachments to arm-netb...@files.phcomp.co.uk
Re: [Arm-netbook] RK3399
Not to mention that, at least in terms of hardware, there's very little that's standard about laptops, ever -- the display protocol, sort of maybe, and the drives, and that's about it. There;'s a reason those machines tend to go together and come apart like a jigsaw puzzle without the box! ___ arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook Send large attachments to arm-netb...@files.phcomp.co.uk
Re: [Arm-netbook] FOSDEM 2018, Stand / Talks / BoFs - ssistance / volunteers needed
The most common use I've heard of for Coroplast -- not that I've done this, it sounds a bit rickety for the task, TBH -- is to use it for the body of a homemade velomobile. For those not in the know -- a velomobile, more common in Europe than USA by far, is basically an enclosed bike or trike. Some have electric motors or other pedal-assist equipment, some do not. Google Images is your friend here ;) ___ arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook Send large attachments to arm-netb...@files.phcomp.co.uk
Re: [Arm-netbook] FOSDEM 2018, Stand / Talks / BoFs - ssistance / volunteers needed
@ Mr Ross -- around here, that corrugated plastic sign stuff is called "Coroplast". It's handy. @ Luke -- Might I suggest one or two of these? They're also sold in eg Staples / Office Max type stores, if you can't/won't wait for eBay or Amazon --> https://www.ebay.com/itm/122831738441 I have one, it's my third, actually -- I have the remnants of the two predecessors around for spare parts. (They were abused to pieces lol.) Don't get me wrong, they're dang sturdy -- I'm just overly demanding of them ;) An Internet friend of mine who lives in Washington State helped me put together a custom axle and some lawnmower wheels on mine, so that it actually has ground clearance. I take it on the local public transit system (I'm kind of rural, so it's a mixture of handicap vans and Chevy Sprinters and hotel-type shuttlebuses) when I go shopping, because it beats the absolute heck out of hauling 10 bags of groceries. Recently, I found a little tub with a lid, at the local Wal-Mart, that I can bungee-cord on over top of the bin, and get even more capacity out of it. The bin itself (I'm not sure about the tub and I'm too lazy to go measure it right now... probably about fourteen inches by sixteen on the inside)) is about a sixteen-inch cube on the inside, unfolded -- it can fold flat, about three inches thick plus wheels and handle -- and they're generally rated to about seventy pounds capacity. (That's a lot of potatoes! or anything else, really... unless you're a traveling cinderblock salesman, lol) I can vouch for this being the actual capacity... fifteen old laptops in a stack is heavy enough to cause problems, as is adding a 25lb box of cat litter to the usual grocery payload... my particular example has a half-inch wooden dowel, wrapped in electrical tape, across the front handle at the inside top... it holds things together nicely ;) ___ arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook Send large attachments to arm-netb...@files.phcomp.co.uk
Re: [Arm-netbook] Communication improvements (Update Oct 10th)
There isn't one. It just does its thing... unless your phone is a Nokia 5110, in which case it's essentially entirely unbreakable, but missing that important feature. ___ arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook Send large attachments to arm-netb...@files.phcomp.co.uk
Re: [Arm-netbook] Communication improvements (Update Oct 10th)
Luke, sometimes autocorrect is actually useful... ;) :P ___ arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook Send large attachments to arm-netb...@files.phcomp.co.uk
Re: [Arm-netbook] Well, /this/ looks relevant...
Hackaday commenters are usually a bit curmudgeonly. I wouldn't pay the peanut gallery there too much attention. ___ arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook Send large attachments to arm-netb...@files.phcomp.co.uk
[Arm-netbook] Well, /this/ looks relevant...
This just turned up on Hackaday. Looks like the folks over at SiFive have been very, very busy... https://hackaday.com/2017/10/04/sifive-announces-risc-v-soc/ Might want to grab a bag of popcorn, guys, I think this is one to watch. ___ arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook Send large attachments to arm-netb...@files.phcomp.co.uk
Re: [Arm-netbook] Standardized Battery Pack Sizes?
Phone again, sorry again... 10% of battery height is your minimum space. On Sep 27, 2017 10:42 AM, "Alexander Ross" wrote: > On 27/09/17 14:58, Christopher Havel wrote: > > Typing on phone, please excuse top post. > > > > Lithium ion cells are somewhat sedate, but cannot release as much current > > at once as lithium polymer cells can. Lithium iron phosphate cells are > > similarly sedare, but have capacities and discharge abilities more like > > those of lithium polymer cells. > arr didnt know about the quick and high current discharge of li-po vs > li-ion. oh and thx for lifepo vs lipo too. thought lifepo could do high > dischage but didnt know it was simular to lipo. oow i learnt some more > :) thanks > > > > > Lithium polymer cells are the ones on YouTube that catch fire (or worse) > at > > slight provocation. They tend to (pick one) melt, catch fire, or explode > > during recharge, if the parameters are at all even slightly off. > > > > Most phones also use lithium polymer cells, though - usually a single > > flatpack in a case. These flatpacks need room to expand, whether in a > case > > or "non-removeable" inside the phone. What happened with the infamous > > Galaxy Note 7 was that the designers did not pay attention to this > > requirement. The batteries tried to expand, couldn't, and shorted out > > internally as a result. Boom. > > Yea tried to leave/naturally left a little bit of room in my wooden > battery box. hmm guess 1,2or3mm total for front and back and 1cm or so > along one side with foam to pad/fill the gap. hmm didnt do any > calculations for how much space to leave. kinda assumed that i had > enough/ wasn’t trying to make it a tight fit but overall compact. using > the bits of wood i had for a compact, strong box. its a 4S 20AH pack... > http://hobbyking.co.uk/hobbyking/store/uh_viewitem.asp?idproduct=80904 > > you’ve got me reassessing my decisions... hope its ok... got a > temperature alarm with sensor along the side. plus 2x cell voltage > monitors/alarms. > > ___ > arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk > http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook > Send large attachments to arm-netb...@files.phcomp.co.uk ___ arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook Send large attachments to arm-netb...@files.phcomp.co.uk
Re: [Arm-netbook] Standardized Battery Pack Sizes?
Typing on phone, please excuse top post. Lithium ion cells are somewhat sedate, but cannot release as much current at once as lithium polymer cells can. Lithium iron phosphate cells are similarly sedare, but have capacities and discharge abilities more like those of lithium polymer cells. Lithium polymer cells are the ones on YouTube that catch fire (or worse) at slight provocation. They tend to (pick one) melt, catch fire, or explode during recharge, if the parameters are at all even slightly off. Most phones also use lithium polymer cells, though - usually a single flatpack in a case. These flatpacks need room to expand, whether in a case or "non-removeable" inside the phone. What happened with the infamous Galaxy Note 7 was that the designers did not pay attention to this requirement. The batteries tried to expand, couldn't, and shorted out internally as a result. Boom. On Sep 27, 2017 9:42 AM, "Alexander Ross" wrote: > On 27/09/17 10:05, Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton wrote: > > On Tue, Sep 26, 2017 at 11:56 PM, Alexander Ross > > wrote: > > > >> [1] luke, the eoma68 laptop li-ion cell is a non typical right? > > > > that's incorrect. it's a lithium polymer battery. it's therefore > > chemically stable. > > yea sorry. I know its a polymer plastic pouch style. Apologises for > using incorrect name at the time. I didn’t say anything about chemically > stable, of course it is. I thought li-ion was same thing as li-po > chemically but with plastic in between. > > I was referring to the dimensions. which i suspect may happen to be what > the ebike lipo manufacturer is making? Not questing you decision. Trying > to learn about and question the status quo of lipo dimensions :) > > Apologies for the long thread post btw, guess i could have simplified it > some what heh. > > Thanks again. > > ___ > arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk > http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook > Send large attachments to arm-netb...@files.phcomp.co.uk ___ arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook Send large attachments to arm-netb...@files.phcomp.co.uk
Re: [Arm-netbook] OT: Librem 5?
Throwing my voice in the ring... *On topic --* I agree with the 'shades of grey' view of things. Life is not simple, and (with exactly one single exception, AFAIK) anyone who says otherwise is deluding themselves and possibly others. There are just varying kinds of complexity. The sole exception I can find is blissful ignorance, and I for one want nothing of that. *Not-entirely-on-topic-but-we're-talking-about-it-so-whatever --* "socialism" got its bad rap because of a different but similar system called "communism". Someone somewhere got the bright idea (not!) to conflate the two, and away we went. Actual, real, true socialism (Marxist or otherwise) has, as far as I'm aware, never been actually tested as a means of governance. Communism has, but that's different, in a way that (as usual) is nuanced and can't be really reduced to a sound bite quite nearly as easily as "socialism is bad ya'll". For those who do not study political science enough to know the difference -- in a nutshell, socialism relies on the people to overthrow their existing government and replace it with socialism. Communism is a revolution from within the government, in that the people are not to be trusted to pull it all off correctly and so the government must do it for them. This demonstrably leads to paranoia in governance and a totalitarian state. *Nota Bene -- *mind you, while I consider myself a socialist, I am NOT NOT NOT FLAMING NOT a Marxist. Marx's original idea called, as the end product, for a "non-state" (for lack of a better term) -- what amounted to a sort of cooperative anarchy wherein a government didn't exist because it was to be superfluous. I do not have anywhere near enough faith in humanity (or anything else) to imagine that such an organization (again, for lack of a better term) would last one hot minute. The first yahoo born who realizes how easy it is to game that system is going to bring the whole thing crashing down -- and, given how crafty we all are as it is, that's going to happen in a time frame best measured in fractional heartbeats. What I would like to see, would look a little more like the way many Nordic countries operate -- what they call "social democracy". I personally think there are ways to improve even those systems, but that's the model I'd primarily start with if I were given the order to reinvent civilization from the ground up... (please don't ever give me that order, though, as I will freely volunteer that I am in no way qualified for the job. I'm just another armchair emperor, so to speak...) ___ arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook Send large attachments to arm-netb...@files.phcomp.co.uk
Re: [Arm-netbook] OT: Librem 5?
On Sat, Sep 23, 2017 at 7:19 PM, zap wrote: > > :looks at the 2016 election then vomits into a bag: While I'm not much of one for conspiracy theories, even I'm forced to admit that there's growing evidence that those of us here in the USA *ahem* had a little help with that one... I will state that I voted for the intelligent and articulate but wonky* candidate, and not the obnoxious and incompetent hot-air balloon that we wound up with... As an aside -- Luke, in my earlier windbag post in this thread, I asked your permission about something, albeit a little indirectly (I'm not going to repeat myself here, so as to avoid spamming)... I've not seen a reply yet, which might be me, or it might not. Did you miss my request, or did I miss your reply...? *For the international crowd: in American slang, labeling someone as a wonk is the political science equivalent of the tech community referring to someone as a geek or nerd. ___ arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook Send large attachments to arm-netb...@files.phcomp.co.uk
Re: [Arm-netbook] OT: Librem 5?
That pocket thing looks kind of cute. Light-years outside of my price range
for anything (let alone my little tinkerin' budget) -- but cute. I hadn't
heard about that one before... I like it, even if I can't afford it...
(silly me, I like tiny computers of basically all sorts)
Shameless (and long-winded, sorry) plug...
I'm developing a mostly-open-source (not libre, sorry) laptop called the
AnyTop. ("Mostly" because it runs Windows, because I /really/ don't want to
have to tutor people in Linux with this thing... sorry, everybody, but the
vast majority of this world runs on The Redmond Monstrosity. It just does.)
The idea is that anyone in the world who isn't blind and can use a knife
can follow the instructions and build their own laptop from said
instructions. The only tool you need is a smallish, non-serrated sharp
blade of some sort.
For the record, I'm not planning on distributing anything /other/ than
instructions, and (a) printing them requires color capability on the
printer side and (b) the requirement of being language independent means
that those instructions wind up looking a bit like something you'd see on
the back of a cereal box, and for most "first world" people they're likely
to be a bit inscrutable at first glance. Numbers are represented as hands
with fingers held up, for example, and sizes are expressed in common
objects and parts thereof (such as a sheet of paper or a CD), rather than
customary units (inches, cm, etc)...
Full disclosure: there's this blog called Hackaday ("hack" as in "hacking
together a fix" not as in "l0lzerz I'm hacking your comp00ter box") that
has a 'projects' sub-site and a yearly contest for grand ideas and the like
-- I have entered the AnyTop in that contest, and am keeping a log on the
'projects' side of the place as part of that -- although I don't expect to
win... I rarely win anything, pretty much period, and especially not
contests...
Direct-image link to a concept illustration of a final, constructed AnyTop,
complete with cheesy logo --> https://i.imgur.com/iDygSE0.jpg
If there's meaningful interest here, and if Luke says it's on-topic (or at
least mostly so), I'll link to the instructions, once they're done, in a
post on this list. I'm also willing to mail a copy to anyone who wants one,
although international mail will be First-Class (not tracked, no delivery
guarantee, and slow as heck) unless the recipient wants to pay for it, and
in all cases I can only mail to places the US Gov't will allow me to...
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Re: [Arm-netbook] hardware encrypted flash drive idea with gpl3 license
The hover text is pretty much my position on the subject -- although I've been informed that it's a rather obsolescent conclusion. (...to which my response almost always is, "I'm sorry, sir/madam/etc, but I'm all out of kitchen foil." ;) ) ___ arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook Send large attachments to arm-netb...@files.phcomp.co.uk
Re: [Arm-netbook] hardware encrypted flash drive idea with gpl3 license
Forgive my inevitable naivety with regard to this sort of thing, but can't gparted create encrypted partitions, and why wouldn't that be secure enough...? My understanding is that it still takes a few hundred years to crack AES encryption with a standard PC... and the average criminals who are likely to blackmail you, I can't imagine they're well funded enough to buy a supercomputer sufficient to pop the lid on those things in a reasonably timely fashion. Of course, if you piss off the Russian Mob, that's different, at least potentially... but that's also a comparatively pretty rare circumstance, I'd think. ___ arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook Send large attachments to arm-netb...@files.phcomp.co.uk
Re: [Arm-netbook] riki200 v3 first print: success
Hey, Luke, this might be useful to you... (I *think* I have the right thread here... lol...) https://hackaday.com/2017/09/17/better-stepping-with-8-bit-micros/ ___ arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook Send large attachments to arm-netb...@files.phcomp.co.uk
Re: [Arm-netbook] ppcnotebook
I'm not sure if you're talking to me or Luke... if it's me, the only product line of Intel's that I'm interested in is now a ghost... namely the Atom SoCs, like the Z3735F, which they stupidly killed off because I guess they don't like all those Chinese clones of the Compute Stick or something. Dunno. Given all of those clones that are on eBay (as sticks and as so-called "MiniPC" boxes), it's not like they weren't shifting enough chips or anything... and the only thing I don't like about them (other than poor Linux support, which has mostly been rectified already) is that you can't backport them to Win7 because of the low-level interface crap that W7 doesn't have drivers for because nobody took up the bother. ...for the record, I'll use Win7 for a few things... but don't ask me to use anything newer, I don't trust it and I can't stand the look... ___ arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook Send large attachments to arm-netb...@files.phcomp.co.uk
Re: [Arm-netbook] ppcnotebook
...okay, I understood probably about 3/4 of what I read, but I am rather impressed. Sounds like they've come a ways since Apple dumped them a decade or so ago. I still think that very few members of the general public will be interested, but that's mostly because most people cling hard to what they're familiar with, and (sadly) a massive portion of that is Windows... On Tue, Sep 12, 2017 at 12:34 AM, Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton < l...@lkcl.net> wrote: > --- > crowd-funded eco-conscious hardware: https://www.crowdsupply.com/eoma68 > > > On Tue, Sep 12, 2017 at 5:32 AM, Christopher Havel > wrote: > > Forgive my own stupidity on the subject, but what's the difference > between > > PowerPC as implemented in the PowerMacs of yore, > > probably power8. > > > and this "Power9" thing > > you mention? I assume there *are* differences? I haven't really paid that > > stuff attention (mostly because I didn't think it was worth it!) in well > > over a decade. > > google them. wikipedia. look up Talos II > > ___ > arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk > http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook > Send large attachments to arm-netb...@files.phcomp.co.uk > ___ arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook Send large attachments to arm-netb...@files.phcomp.co.uk
Re: [Arm-netbook] ppcnotebook
Forgive my own stupidity on the subject, but what's the difference between PowerPC as implemented in the PowerMacs of yore, and this "Power9" thing you mention? I assume there *are* differences? I haven't really paid that stuff attention (mostly because I didn't think it was worth it!) in well over a decade. ...although, that does sound like it's got some promise to it... ___ arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook Send large attachments to arm-netb...@files.phcomp.co.uk
Re: [Arm-netbook] ppcnotebook
Ugh, PowerPC? Whenever I hear /anything/ about that particular architecture, my mind leaps (with a profound groan) to the old PowerMacs of the late 1990s and early 2000s. IIRC the reason that line died was part popular idiocy and part architecture limitations -- PowerPC couldn't scale its clock cycles fast enough to match x86's stuff, regardless of actual performance and comparisons thereof (to the extent that they can be made!), and people wouldn't buy them as a result, because they thought that clock speed in hundreds of MHz (and, eventually, in GHz) directly correlated with performance and capabilities the way horsepower does (for the most part) with a car, even though clock speed hasn't worked like that basically since computers stopped being the size of file cabinets... as a local friend of mine pointed out, a 1MHz 6502 can run rings around a 4MHz Z80 (and, probably, a 4.77MHz 8086!) -- and that goes back to the mid- and late-/Seventies/! To be fair, the friend I mention is a Commodore /nut/ and thus rather biased (as am I, in the same direction, albeit somewhat less so... I've become rather more fond of the RCA CDP1802, as of late... ah, but *that* architecture was weed-baked-sloth kinds of slow...). So from my perspective, PowerPC was a flash in the pan, and now it's basically irrelevant. Sort of like Ralph Nader, you know? He had his fifteen minutes (a couple times over, really -- first with the Chevy Corvair, and then again when he ran for President in 2000) but they're over now and these days he's basically all alone in the corner by himself because he's old news. I've not heard of anything both innovative and relevant being done with PowerPC since Apple dropped it like the radioactive potato that it was... so forgive the extreme skepticism here and now as well. Mind you, I'm not saying that that project should dry up and blow away -- I don't think that, even for a hot minute -- but I really don't think their choice of architecture is wise, nor do I think they're going to capture even a meaningful portion of the /hobbyist/ computing market, and that's a niche kind of a segment to begin with... not to mention that popular idiocy with regard to technology is at an all-time high and climbing fast (ugh ugh ugh)... Hey, I've been wrong before. Maybe they're /totally/ the future of computing and they start this huge revolution that completely changes everything forever and kills off x86 and Windows the way x86 and DOS knocked off CP/M and 8080/Z80-based computing. Or... not. /My/ money's on "or not", and that they either fizzle out without anyone else really noticing, or spend their efforts only to become instantly mired in irrelevancy, or (most likely) some unfortunate combination of both -- but I guess we'll just have to wait and see, to know for sure... ...good lord, I'm only 31 and I'm already turning into that overly-opinionated uncle everyone has at their holiday table that just can't shut up about, well, dang near everything... I'll pipe down for a while now. (Sorry, everybody... maybe I really do need one of those On-And-On Anon twelve-step meetings for people who just can't shut up...) ...we now return to your regularly-unscheduled programming... ___ arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook Send large attachments to arm-netb...@files.phcomp.co.uk
Re: [Arm-netbook] m
Wrong. The phone goes off of keylock in his pocket, causing it to be able to place the pocket calls... ___ arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook Send large attachments to arm-netb...@files.phcomp.co.uk
Re: [Arm-netbook] m
Like I suggested, keylock failure. Make sure your phone has its lock feature activated when it's in your pocket and it shouldn't happen too often... ...unless your phone is like my father's, where the keylock feature is so poorly implemented that it calls people from his pocket, WITH keylock activated! ___ arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook Send large attachments to arm-netb...@files.phcomp.co.uk
Re: [Arm-netbook] m
LOL. I think Mr Wilbur just had a mild keylock failure. I would've remarked such at the time, but I didn't think it was even worth that much attention. ___ arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook Send large attachments to arm-netb...@files.phcomp.co.uk
Re: [Arm-netbook] Cell phone question
I should note, having had a Galaxy SIII up until quite recently, that Samsung no longer makes batteries for it, and the counterfeits are truly awful -- as are "remanufactured" batteries. I now have an S5 with no complaints -- but persistent battery issues were one of two big reasons I got rid of the SIII I had. (The other reason was that the microphone had begun to give me issues.) ___ arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook Send large attachments to arm-netb...@files.phcomp.co.uk
Re: [Arm-netbook] Eoma68 update
I can offer one very emphatic suggestion regarding the MicroSD cards -- NOT EBAY. I've not been bit personally, but I've heard the stories. Flash media of any meaningful capacity is usually worth about half the capacity advertised, with dodgy firmware to compensate. I always buy from Newegg[dot]com but they don't really do volume pricing and they're not a wholesaler which is what you really need. Maybe one of your factory contacts over there has a pal at eg SanDisk? or maybe it might be worth a trip (back?) to Akihabara Market? (Didn't you go there at some point? I can't remember.) ___ arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook Send large attachments to arm-netb...@files.phcomp.co.uk
Re: [Arm-netbook] systemd nonsense ad-infinitum
Money? I ain't got that. Somebody else wants to pay, that's different... but me, well... let's just say that the moth in my wallet up and died. ___ arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook Send large attachments to arm-netb...@files.phcomp.co.uk
Re: [Arm-netbook] systemd nonsense ad-infinitum
Fair enough... although it seems to me that, as (I would hope) good-natured humans, we should all endeavor to bring the "is" at least a little closer to the "ought"... ___ arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook Send large attachments to arm-netb...@files.phcomp.co.uk
Re: [Arm-netbook] systemd nonsense ad-infinitum
I think you and I will have to respectfully disagree. *Everyone* should have a voice. I may not be able to code, but I can still contribute in some way. Here's my other crowning achievement (IMO) -- a bug report where I got something major repaired. Partially I was lucky, because it was one of those 'this is boring' situations (faulty code was accepted without being properly examined, leading to a break in support), except someone stepped in externally, because they could, and sort of took over things and fixed them. https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=91966 Oh, right, length warning there. It took multiple *months* to get that thing untangled and working. Oh -- and, much to my chagrin, it still hasn't been picked up *to this day* by Debian, Ubuntu, and derivatives -- the very OSes it affects. Anything from about 2014 on has the defective version. (Last known-good config was Ubuntu Precise Pangolin!) It's been a year or two, you'd think they'd've gotten around to it by now... oh well, it's for a very particular set of rather-unpopular species of 32bit gear, so it probably won't matter much longer... support for 32bit gear is dropping like flies in a winter barn... ___ arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook Send large attachments to arm-netb...@files.phcomp.co.uk
Re: [Arm-netbook] systemd nonsense ad-infinitum
To clarify... by "some people can't code" -- I not only mean the people who, in a literal sense, cannot write or read any programming language and therefore are unable to contribute, but also people like me who are truly awful at it and honestly should, for the sake of sanity in those who can program well, stay well away from anything even vaguely resembling a programming language. My, er, crowning achievement is an eight-room text adventure *that has no parser* -- it compares entire input strings without attempting to manipulate them. I wrote it in MS QuickBASIC PDS 7.1 on a 486 Toshiba about three or four years ago... mostly to see if I could actually do it. It took me *multiple weeks* to get it completely written and debugged, and it kind of pushed the envelope of what I could do with programming. If anyone actually wants the source code for it, I'll gladly put it up on PasteBin or any other suggested similar place, although I'll warn you, it'll probably give you hives. So, Mr Kontos *et al.*, what would you have me maintain, other than my distance from any mission-critical chunk of code...? ;) ___ arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook Send large attachments to arm-netb...@files.phcomp.co.uk
Re: [Arm-netbook] systemd nonsense ad-infinitum
With all due respect, some people can't code. Do they not deserve a voice? ___ arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook Send large attachments to arm-netb...@files.phcomp.co.uk
