Re: [Arm-netbook] What do 1,000 EOMA68-A20 PCBs look like?
On 2018-12-05 at 17:40:29 +0100, Paul Boddie wrote: > Of course, Debian supports everything of interest, but then there has to be a > process of weeding out non-free packages and content. Note that this "process" simply involves not adding the 'non-free' repository to /etc/apt/sources.list. It's not silently added by default, the user/admin needs to make an explicit choice to add it. -- Elena ``of Valhalla'' ___ arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook Send large attachments to arm-netb...@files.phcomp.co.uk
Re: [Arm-netbook] riscv-basics.com
On 2018-07-10 at 18:13:12 +0200, David Boddie wrote: > It's currently down - perhaps there was a public backlash, the server > overheated, or something it has been taken down by arm themselves after their own staff complained: https://www.theregister.co.uk/2018/07/10/arm_riscv_website/ -- Elena ``of Valhalla'' ___ arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook Send large attachments to arm-netb...@files.phcomp.co.uk
Re: [Arm-netbook] Top Priority Software Tasks
On 2017-11-29 at 21:00:37 -0500, Stefan Monnier wrote: > Stefan "who doesn't know if the proprietary binary-blob MALI > driver currently works with mainline Linux" There was a talk on that blob at the debian minidebconf cambridge last weekend (video available) https://wiki.debian.org/DebianEvents/gb/2017/MiniDebConfCambridge/Sliepen and informations are being kept updated on the debian wiki: https://wiki.debian.org/MaliGraphics (and related pages) but there doesn't seem to be much work done for allwinner SoCs, at the moment. -- Elena ``of Valhalla'' ___ arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook Send large attachments to arm-netb...@files.phcomp.co.uk
Re: [Arm-netbook] riki200 v3 first print: success
On 2017-09-18 at 07:07:04 +0100, Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton wrote: > the entire arduino software ecosystem was never designed to actually > give people proper access to the hardware. anything that's a 180mb > download and requires a 200mb runtime environment to compile and > upload an executable that's only 16k in size *really* isn't going to > end well. Well, IIRC they do bundle gcc(-avr), which tends to be quite big, but doesn't really need to be downloaded again if you already have it from your distribution, and the runtime environment is only needed if you want to use their IDE instead of your favourite editor + a Makefile (and there is (was?) at least one example Makefile somewhere in the arduino package). Looking at the installed sizes on debian (which has an older version for license reasons) I see that the libraries are about 6½MB and the IDE itself is just 1½MB. https://packages.debian.org/sid/arduino-core https://packages.debian.org/sid/arduino To really reduce size they would have to drop gcc, but I don't think that would be a reasonable choice for just the aim of side reduction. Other than assuming that beginners will be fine with just their IDE (and targeting their documentation at them), I don't think they ever did anything to prevent people from going deeper on their own, as they learned more, including using the arduino board as an AVR devboard completely ignoring the arduino software. > so they're stepping well outside of the "normal" boundaries - good > luck to them. Fully agree here: what they are doing lately makes them at the very least quite irrelevant to the Open Hardware world. -- Elena ``of Valhalla'' ___ arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook Send large attachments to arm-netb...@files.phcomp.co.uk
Re: [Arm-netbook] systemd nonsense ad-infinitum
On 2017-07-04 at 14:39:17 -0400, Hendrik Boom wrote: > On Tue, Jul 04, 2017 at 08:01:54PM +0300, Bill Kontos wrote: > > It seems like those who > > actually did the work scripting for inits chose to work for systemd > > only, and now it's just a bunch of people who demand stuff without > > offering anything in return( i.e. work). > > As I heard it, the disputes about systemd on the Debian mailing > lists got so vicious that those who didn't want systemd left and > went elsewhere to contribute. well, the disputes got vicious, and I admit that I skipped reading most of it for my own sanity. At least on IRC, however, most of the viciousness seemed to come from the non-systemd camp; it can be true that they alienated the people who may have wanted to help supporting other systems, but making them not want to be on the same side of those people, but blaming the systemd-supporting debian community for their actions doesn't sound right. I say seemed, however, because at least in the worst cases the pattern of behaviour were more suggestive of a troll trying to stir up controversy for its own sake (or for some other reason) rather than somebody honestly concerned with systemd, and that surely helped muddle things further. -- Elena ``of Valhalla'' ___ arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook Send large attachments to arm-netb...@files.phcomp.co.uk
Re: [Arm-netbook] systemd nonsense ad-infinitum
On 2017-07-04 at 13:07:33 -0400, Christopher Havel wrote: > With all due respect, some people can't code. Do they not deserve a voice? In the past, the FLOSS community was pretty bad at only valuing contributions that involved writing code, and ignoring pretty much everything else. Nowadays, it depends a lot on which community you are involved with: some are still of the idea that only code matters, but many more recognise that software alone has limited usefulness, and that many other kinds of contributions are just as important. Debian these days is one such community (see e.g. https://www.debian.org/intro/diversity and https://contributors.debian.org/ and http://www.enricozini.org/blog/2012/debian/more-diversity-in-skills/ for some background on the latter), and while being somewhat technically minded is helpful in finding something to contribute on, actual writing of code is a minority of the available tasks. One think that is *very* helpful is testing stuff, especially when using rare configurations, and opening bugs when something isn't working as expected. It is true that does not always mean that they are going to be fixed, but it is still useful. * if there is no open bug on the bugtracker you can be 99% that it won't be fixed, opening the bug significantly raises the chances for a fix, even if it's not a guantee. * by opening the bug you are showing that somebody is actually using that program/feature: sometimes minor stuff that the maintainers don't really care about are taking lots of their effort, and if they don't even know if anybody cares about it they are much more likely to just drop worrying about it. * Not just the package maintainers see the bugs on their packages: sometimes other people notice them and may get involved and provide a patch, even if they are not the bug opener themselves. While doing so, remember that (in the case of Debian) you're probably requesting somebody to do something in their spare time, so they may not answer immediately (or in the next week), and maybe the answer will be that they can't fix the bug unless somebody else comes with a patch, but being nice in the request usually leads to receiving nice answers. I agree that it's not a task suitable to anybody as it does require at least a bit of proficiency in using linux systems and the ability to follow instructions (probably involving the command line) to provide more data if needed, but the set of people being able to to so should be much bigger than the set of people who are able to succefully patch some random code. -- Elena ``of Valhalla'' ___ arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook Send large attachments to arm-netb...@files.phcomp.co.uk
Re: [Arm-netbook] Totally derailed topic
On 2017-05-11 at 06:57:00 +, Lyberta wrote: > Believing in religion is like buying Apple's iPhone. Sure, it's shiny, > it has apps, you may feel good about yourself. But most people don't > understand how much they sacrifice by using it. Like downloading apps > not from Apple Store or not be constantly surveilled. Well, some people have faith, and they don't have a choice in having it or not. Personally I feel it's like having another sense like smell: imprecise, prone to misunderstanding, but it's there and those who have it cannot deny that they feel something. Did I mention "imprecise"? Understanding *what* that something is is a whole different matter, and historically lots of people who claimed who know have been proved (or strongly suspected) to lie for their own advantage. > Religion is the cause of most homophobia and transphobia in the world. > LGBT people get executed by ISIS, get imprisoned by Chechens and get > discriminated in most of the world. well, not really. power and lust for it is the cause of most *phobia in the world; homosexual and trans people are among the minorities that are currently used as an easy target to turn people's insatisfaction with the current situation on, like in the past it was the jews (and homosexuals, and jehowa's witnesses, etc) in germany, the japanese in the US during the war and the communists afterwards, etc. Some of it uses the excuse of religion, some of race, some of politics, but the shared factor is that they are all minorities that are big enough to be visible, but small enough that the people in power (or who want to get in power) don't feel them as a danger. -- Elena ``of Valhalla'' ___ arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook Send large attachments to arm-netb...@files.phcomp.co.uk
Re: [Arm-netbook] Logging and journaling
On 2017-02-11 at 22:51:57 +, Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton wrote: > do you know the history of hans reiser? is his software available > today? given his history, if his software *was* available today, do > you think anyone would want to install it and use it? why not? it's > free software, right? you can change it, keep it, it's entirely under > a libre license... so what's the problem? Actually, yes, his software *is* available today: according to wikipedia (and to a quick ``ls /lib/modules/4.9.0-1-amd64/kernel/fs/reiserfs/``) ReiserFS is still available in the linux kernel, altought probably used more to access legacy systems than for new deployments. Of course, by this time it's no longer "his software", but more software that belongs to the community, based on code written by Hans Reiser but then modified by multiple people in the meanwhile. I strongly suspect that the fact that it is an early 2000s filesystem with no modern features is more relevant to the fact that very few people are using it today than the private life of its main (but not only) developer. IIRC its decline had already started before the murder / arrest, because developement on it had already stopped, and new features where being added to Reiser4 (which was never ready for acceptance in mainline, however). -- Elena ``of Valhalla'' ___ arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook Send large attachments to arm-netb...@files.phcomp.co.uk
Re: [Arm-netbook] Logging and journaling
On 2017-02-11 at 17:47:18 +0100, Philip Hands wrote: > > https://security-tracker.debian.org/tracker/CVE-2016-2118 > > That should be: > > https://security-tracker.debian.org/tracker/CVE-2016-10156 uops, thanks, big duckduckgoing-fail on my part (I searched for the CVE number + debian, and didn't check that I was actually opening the right one) -- Elena ``of Valhalla'' ___ arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook Send large attachments to arm-netb...@files.phcomp.co.uk
Re: [Arm-netbook] Logging and journaling
On 2017-02-11 at 13:21:05 +, Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton wrote: > https://www.theregister.co.uk/2017/01/24/systemd_flaw/ > > "Newer" versions of systemd deployed by Fedora or Ubuntu have been > secured, but Debian systems are still running an older version and > therefore need updating. Debian backports (when possibile) security fixes to the packages they distribute; a quick check for the CVE listed in that article shows that most debian systems should be fine: https://security-tracker.debian.org/tracker/CVE-2016-2118 note that security fixes are released through the " (security)" repository and only merged in "" when there is a point update of it (every few months for as long as the release is supported) and most systems do have the security repository enabled (that happens by default with the installer and is considered a good practice). Wheezy is still listed as vulnerable, but that's because it's out of regular support (since april 2016, currently only under LTS_ support), and thus there won't be another point release to include the changes published via the (security) repo. .. _LTS: https://wiki.debian.org/LTS -- Elena ``of Valhalla'' ___ arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook Send large attachments to arm-netb...@files.phcomp.co.uk
Re: [Arm-netbook] Logging and journaling
On 2017-02-09 at 10:53:02 -0500, Adam Van Ymeren wrote: > On Thu, Feb 9, 2017 at 10:37 AM, Tzafrir Cohen <tzaf...@cohens.org.il> > wrote: > > That is: you don't like systemd? fine. Installing Debian without it is > > rather simple: > > https://wiki.debian.org/systemd#Installing_without_systemd > > Please don't spread this mis-information. Installing Debian without > systemd is far from simple, and many things just won't work right as > systemd has become a dependency on more and more packages. > > It's possible, yes, but it's not simple, not supported, and tends to leave > the user debugging weird behaviours. This is mostly false: installing debian without libsystemd0 is not supported. Lots of packages have added optional support for systemd, so they are built linking that *648 bytes* library to access it *when available*. Not doing so would require multiple builds of all packages and that would lead to mainteinance hell. Using another init system on debian is fully supported, mandatory on non-linux archs (sadly, none of them are release archs, but people are still working on them). Since less people are using it it is likely that there are bugs and that it will take more time to find them, but please if you do *report them*, they will be taken care of as any other bug (i.e. not always, because sometimes maintainers disappear). The only way to be sure that other init systems will die completely in Debian is not reporting bugs, because that way the maintainers have no idea that they exists and no chance to fix them. Running GNOME without systemd is a different beast: I don't know if it has happened already, but sooner or later systemd will be required because of an *upstream* decision. Debian fully supports a number of other Desktop Environment and window managers, some of which (e.g. KDE/Plasma) have a committed to being multi-platform and thus will not for the foreseeable future force the use of systemd. -- Elena ``of Valhalla'' - who is very grateful to the systemd maintainers in Debian because they are dealing with *that* upstream and are managing to protect us users from some upstream insanities. ___ arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook Send large attachments to arm-netb...@files.phcomp.co.uk
Re: [Arm-netbook] Debian GNU/Linux, nonfree software, and FSF's free distros list
On 2016-10-17 at 19:46:21 +0200, Elena ``of Valhalla'' wrote: > I see that there has been a BOF_ about collaboration between Debian and > the FSF at the latest Debconf, but I haven't seen the video, so I don't > know what was said (yet, I may have just found something to watch in the > near future) apparently I a) forgot the link, which is https://debconf16.debconf.org/talks/91/ b) forgot that I did try to watch that video, but it's missing the first 20 minutes or so of audio (it's in the known issues at http://ftp.acc.umu.se/pub/debian-meetings/2016/debconf16/README.txt ) -- Elena ``of Valhalla'' ___ arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook Send large attachments to arm-netb...@files.phcomp.co.uk
Re: [Arm-netbook] Debian GNU/Linux, nonfree software, and FSF's free distros list
On 2016-10-17 at 10:02:26 -0400, Stefan Monnier wrote: > I wish Debian and the FSF would work together to resolve this issue. They are, more or less: there has been quite some activity a few years ago which lead to some changes, but work seems to have stalled (the `mailing list`_ isn't seeing much traffic lately) .. _`mailing list`: https://lists.alioth.debian.org/mailman/listinfo/fsf-collab-discuss I suspect that what changes could be agreed on have been done, while most other cases are points where they had to agree to disagree, such as the freedom status of the FSF docs and the existence of non-free. I see that there has been a BOF_ about collaboration between Debian and the FSF at the latest Debconf, but I haven't seen the video, so I don't know what was said (yet, I may have just found something to watch in the near future) > It shouldn't be that hard to modify Debian so that `non-free` is only ever > used based on an explicit user request (and to let the user specify > that this explicit request only applies this one time). It is, already. users already have to explicitely accept (in some cases that involve hardware support) or request (in all other cases) that non-free is enabled. There is disagreement on how hard it should be to do so, with the FSF considering what Debian choose to do "too easy". > Along the same lines, the `non-free` section should be split in two: > `proprietary`, `non-dfsg`, where the `non-dfsg` part would only contain > packages which the DFSG rejects as non-free but which many people in the > Free Software world consider Free nevertheless (basically FSF's docs). If something is not-DFSG is by definition proprietary as far as Debian is concerned. There have been talks about dividing non-free, however, splitting out the firmwares (that lots of people consider a necessary evil for another few years), documentation (for which some people including the FSF tend to have lower requirements) and everything else (the really evil stuff) There was agreement on this split, but I suspect that it has been stuck in a lack of volunteer time. -- Elena ``of Valhalla'' ___ arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook Send large attachments to arm-netb...@files.phcomp.co.uk
Re: [Arm-netbook] Debian GNU/Linux, nonfree software, and FSF's free distros list
On 2016-10-15 at 18:06:52 -0500, J.B. Nicholson wrote: > Andrew M.A. Cater wrote: > > You can install an entirely free system with no non-free components. > > > > You can also install Debian without taking account of any recommends. > But the recommends and suggests fields are still listing nonfree software, > which was the FSF's issue. Not accepting the suggestions or recommendations > doesn't address the issue the FSF raised in Sullivan's DebConf talk. Suggests, yes, but Recommends to software in non-free shouldn't be there as they are forbidden by the policy https://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/ch-archive.html#s-main If you find one, please file a bug so that it can be removed (either because the Recommends wasn't really supposed to be there, or by moving the package to contrib, if it really needs non-free software to work) -- Elena ``of Valhalla'' signature.asc Description: PGP signature ___ arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook Send large attachments to arm-netb...@files.phcomp.co.uk
Re: [Arm-netbook] Code of conduct?
On 2016-09-17 at 09:05:00 +0100, Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton wrote: > correct. one of the things that i love about free software is that > most people are completely anonymous behind a wall of plain text. we > don't give a fuck about people's gender, or race, or age, or size, or > any other fuckwit politically bullshit-orientated delusionary > attitudes. this, sadly, it not true, except maybe for a few very specific cases. Humans are extremely good at getting hints that help put people in specific bins, and they can often do so even from just written texts: the most obvious think is finding out people's gender from their name (and these days working from a pseudonim that is not connected to your legal name is much rarer than it used to be), but you can also get hints about nationality (or at least native language, for people for whom english is a second language) and ethnicity from the errors (in the former case) and the non-standard usages (in the latter), and of course people of different generations do use different expressions. Of course these hints have an even bigger failure rate than the ones available in-person, but they still work in enough cases that they keep being reinforced. One big problem with this is that it mostly happens at an instinctive level, so people may *honestly* believe that they aren't doing any discrimination, and that they are giving everybody the same chances. > if you have the self belief to step forward onto a public > mailing list and can speak with a rational and clear voice, and this already requires a higher effort from about half of humanity who for centuries has been trained from a very young age that stepping forward in public is something that they are not supposed to do. Note that I don't believe that a free software community can do anything to solve *this* problem, it's just something that I believe it's worth remembering. -- Elena ``of Valhalla'' ___ arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook Send large attachments to arm-netb...@files.phcomp.co.uk
Re: [Arm-netbook] Rebuilding official OS images?
On 2016-07-29 at 12:03:58 -0500, Matt Campbell wrote: > Are there scripts somewhere for building the official OS images for the A20 > card, from official distro package repositories, using debootstrap or the > equivalent tool for other distros? Debian has support for a number of A20 boards in the official installer: https://wiki.debian.org/InstallingDebianOn/Allwinner the EOMA68 board is still not supported, but if a device tree blob is available it is possible to use it with a bit of manual work https://wiki.debian.org/InstallingDebianOn/Allwinner#Installing_on_systems_that_are_not_supported_out_of_the_box You do need a serial interface (the debian installer runs on it, because it's the common denominator of all supported boards, and autodetecting the output device wasn't trivial): I don't know if it is easily available on the EOMA68 A20 board. -- Elena ``of Valhalla'' ___ arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook Send large attachments to arm-netb...@files.phcomp.co.uk
Re: [Arm-netbook] eoma68-jz4775 x-ray pictures
On 2016-04-29 at 14:21:12 +0100, Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton wrote: > that's fine, because it's outside of the remit of the company that > got the RYF Certificate. skype is *not* in a GNU repository, or in > the debian repository, or in any repository at all. it's not actually, skype is in one ubuntu repository, which if I'm not mistaken at least trisquel users could add https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Skype 3rd party repositories for other proprietary software are often available and adding them usually requires just about the same level of tech-expertise as adding non-free to debian (or to gNewSense). > i don't really like to use the words "idiots" - let's call them > "average end-users" instead (examples include "grandma" or "busy > secretary" or "7-year-old" or "49-year-old farm mechanic and cattle > breeder") actually, 'grandma' tends to be quite discriminatory and offensive, considering that a woman can easily be of grandma age and still be an IT professional (probably near retirement, but not necessarily). > average end-users simply cannot cope with the "jumping through hoops" > - they haven't got time. if they really need to, they'll go buy a > windows PC. or a mac. and that's fine. we're not catering to them, > and neither is the FSF. so it is fine for anybody who is not a tech expert to be forced to buy a mainstream spying device, while software freedom is just for people who can afford spending their time jumping through hoops? -- Elena ``of Valhalla'' ___ arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook Send large attachments to arm-netb...@files.phcomp.co.uk
Re: [Arm-netbook] eoma68-jz4775 x-ray pictures
On 2016-04-25 at 14:34:15 +0100, Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton wrote: > On Mon, Apr 25, 2016 at 2:07 PM, Paul Boddie <p...@boddie.org.uk> wrote: > > Debian is available for mipsel. > ... but debian isn't FSF-Endorseable, but its main repository has been recognised as a valid distribution to use to check whether some bit of hardware is compatibile with free software: https://www.fsf.org/news/fsf-and-debian-join-forces-to-help-free-software-users-find-the-hardware-they-need -- Elena ``of Valhalla'' ___ arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook Send large attachments to arm-netb...@files.phcomp.co.uk
