Re: [Arm-netbook] I saw your recent update, Luke

2017-05-10 Thread mike.v...@gmail.com 
2017-05-10 4:34 GMT+02:00 Kyle :

> Damn. You know a list has been taken over by posting nazis when entire
> threads get hijacked just to tell anyone who cares to listen that someone
> top posted, and that breaks someone's flow.
>

I'm not seeing any of that. The inline posting is simply the format chosen,
for various reasons, on this list. Everyone from the "Outlook" world is
unfamiliar with type of communication, that was including me.

But I find the inline posting quite refreshing. And doesn't require an
email client capable of "story-lining". And helps with addressing multiple
issues and responses in one thread.

 TL;DR

Thanks for your point of view. But I wonder who's the posting n..i here.

~Kyle
>
>
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Re: [Arm-netbook] I saw your recent update, Luke

2017-05-09 Thread Kyle 
Damn. You know a list has been taken over by posting nazis when entire 
threads get hijacked just to tell anyone who cares to listen that 
someone top posted, and that breaks someone's flow. Well, here's the 
deal. My e-mail client is threaded, so I see the whole conversation in 
order. It just flows naturally that way. If I want to read the same 
messages over and over, all I have to do is open them as many times as I 
want. There is therefore no need to quote anything at all, as I have the 
entire context. I'm looking at you especially, hard-core bottom posters, 
who just have to outlook-style quote the entire two ore more messages 
and move their cursor all the way down to the bottom to write their 
little one-liner response.


I see lots of this kind of thing:
--
A: It messes up the flow of the conversation.
Q: What's wrong with top posting?
But instead, we should be asking ourselves how this looks. Please try 
not to read the entirety of the example below; just see how easy it will 
be to see my comments after the example:

--
Hi. How are you

--
On Tuesday, May 9, 2017 at 8:30 PM, "Person A"  rote:
> Hi. How are you:

I'm doing well. And you?

--
On Tuesday, May 9, 2017 at 8:32 PM, "Person B"  
wrote:

> On Tuesday, May 9, 2017 at 8:30 PM, "Person A"  rote:
> > Hi. How are you:
>
> I'm doing well. And you?

I'm having a great day. I just found this awesome information you just 
have to see about libre RISC computing. Could it be applied to your 
current work?

http://thisismysite.link/truly-free-computing-is-possible/

--
- Original message -
From: "Person A" 
Sent: Tuesday, May 9, 2017 at 8:34 PM
Subject: Re: Could this work?

> On Tuesday, May 9, 2017 at 8:32 PM, "Person B" 
 wrote:
> > On Tuesday, May 9, 2017 at 8:30 PM, "Person A"  
rote:

> > > Hi. How are you:
> >
> > I'm doing well. And you?
>
> I'm having a great day. I just found this awesome information you 
just have to see about libre >

RISC computing. Could it be applied to your current work?
> http://thisismysite.link/truly-free-computing-is-possible/

This looks like something I came across a couple of days ago. I think it 
has some merit, but needs lots of time and money to make it work.


--
On Tuesday, May 9, 2017 at 8:34 PM, "Person A"  wrote:
> On Tuesday, May 9, 2017 at 8:32 PM, "Person B" 
 wrote:
> > On Tuesday, May 9, 2017 at 8:30 PM, "Person A"  
rote:

> > > Hi. How are you:
> >
> > I'm doing well. And you?
>
> I'm having a great day. I just found this awesome information you 
just have to see about libre

> RISC computing. Could it be applied to your current work?
> http://thisismysite.link/truly-free-computing-is-possible/

Yes. This looks quite promising. In fact, I've put lots of time and 
effort into this very idea. Thanks for the link.


--
On Tuesday, May 9, 2017 at 8:42 PM, "Person B"  
wrote:
> On Tuesday, May 9, 2017 at 8:34 PM, "Person A"  
wrote:
> > On Tuesday, May 9, 2017 at 8:32 PM, "Person B" 
 wrote:
> > > On Tuesday, May 9, 2017 at 8:30 PM, "Person A" 
 rote:

> > > > Hi. How are you:
> > >
> > > I'm doing well. And you?
> >
> > I'm having a great day. I just found this awesome information you 
just have to see about libre

> > RISC computing. Could it be applied to your current work?
> > http://thisismysite.link/truly-free-computing-is-possible/
>
> Yes. This looks quite promising. In fact, I've put lots of time and 
effort into this very idea. > Thanks for the link.


No problem. Glad to help.

--
Usually, if I feel the need to quote at all, I keep my quotes short and 
my attributions shorter:

--

Why is bottom posting bad?

--

According to Person A:
# Why is bottom posting bad?

It forces readers to see the same message a hundred times or more before 
they can see responses. This makes it very hard to keep up with a 
thread, unless the reader intentionally comes in late. Threaded clients 
do all the hard work, so readers shouldn't have to.


--

But most of the time, I try to retain context in other ways that don't 
require quoting:

--
Why is bottom posting bad?

--
Bottom posting forces readers to see the same message a hund

Re: [Arm-netbook] I saw your recent update, Luke

2017-05-09 Thread Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton 
On Tue, May 9, 2017 at 7:23 PM, Bill Kontos  wrote:

> Yup. It's still hilarious when I trap people into chatting with slackbot for
> half an hour before they realize it's a bot because I have programmed it
> very carefully exactly for this job and not for being informative.

 i love that :)

> understand what the crap is going on with the world. Most of them are smart
> but don't understand shit about technology. There is very little I can do
> about educating most of my surroundings, but I do try my best.

 well, i admire and respect anyone who helps other people's lives to
be better when it comes to technology.

l.

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Re: [Arm-netbook] I saw your recent update, Luke

2017-05-09 Thread Bill Kontos 
On Tue, May 9, 2017 at 8:34 PM, Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton 
wrote:

> On Tue, May 9, 2017 at 6:03 PM, Bill Kontos  wrote:
>
> > Indeed. I'm from the slack generation,
>
>  ah so you've read their terms and conditions, then?  and seen these
> news articles:
>
>  https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2017/may/07/the-
> great-british-brexit-robbery-hijacked-democracy
>  https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/feb/26/robert-
> mercer-breitbart-war-on-media-steve-bannon-donald-trump-nigel-farage
>
> > not too used to mailing lists. I
> > didn't realize I was breaking the flow.
>
Yup. It's still hilarious when I trap people into chatting with slackbot
for half an hour before they realize it's a bot because I have programmed
it very carefully exactly for this job and not for being informative.
Anyway by slack I mean modern chat rooms in general. I use whatever
everyone else that I need to work with knows how to use and there is
nothing I can do about that. Unfortunately I'm working on a daily basis
with people who can't figure out by themselves how to add a new power point
slide, let alone understand what the crap is going on with the world. Most
of them are smart but don't understand shit about technology. There is very
little I can do about educating most of my surroundings, but I do try my
best.
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Re: [Arm-netbook] I saw your recent update, Luke

2017-05-09 Thread Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton 
On Tue, May 9, 2017 at 6:03 PM, Bill Kontos  wrote:

> Indeed. I'm from the slack generation,

 ah so you've read their terms and conditions, then?  and seen these
news articles:

 
https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2017/may/07/the-great-british-brexit-robbery-hijacked-democracy
 
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/feb/26/robert-mercer-breitbart-war-on-media-steve-bannon-donald-trump-nigel-farage

> not too used to mailing lists. I
> didn't realize I was breaking the flow.

 it's a different world.  slack is designed to self-promote, to entrap
and entice you by "encouraging" - forcing - interaction with glitz and
glamour. likewise github: it's NOT about teamwork, it's about
encouraging you to promote yourself above others, to compete for
attention and glory... all the while getting information that can be
sold about you whilst lying to you that they don't do anything of the
sort.

 so in short: mailing lists are group communication minus the glamour,
entrapment and promotion, but also without hard rules on formatting.
so people need to set their own rules, and that's how netiquette
formed.

l.

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Re: [Arm-netbook] I saw your recent update, Luke

2017-05-09 Thread Bill Kontos 
On Tue, May 9, 2017 at 2:31 PM, mike.v...@gmail.com 
wrote:

>
>
> 2017-05-09 12:55 GMT+02:00 zap :
>
>>
>>
>> On 05/09/2017 04:32 AM, Bill Kontos wrote:
>>
>> Something that crossed my mind, does the lack of flash mean we can now
>> update to kernels newer than 3.x ?
>>
>>
>> Just a thought but I believe top posting annoys Luke.
>>
>
>  Bill didn't know how to post in-line. But we figured it out right Bill?
>
> Indeed. I'm from the slack generation, not too used to mailing lists. I
didn't realize I was breaking the flow.

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Re: [Arm-netbook] I saw your recent update, Luke

2017-05-09 Thread Hendrik Boom 
On Tue, May 09, 2017 at 02:10:25PM +0100, Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton wrote:
> 
> it's quite simple: this is a list where topics are discussed in-depth.
> top-posting that breaks the context makes it REALLY hard for people to
> follow a complex or comprehensive discussion.  making other people
> work harder at understanding and following isn't on.
> 
> if however there is like a throw-away comment (more a personal
> discussion or just a quip / joke) then i'm happy to tolerate
> top-posting.
> 
> generally i think people get it right, but if anyone feels that
> someone's made their lives awkward by breaking the context, PLEASE say
> so immediately.

I normally in-line post, because that seems to be the most effective way
to communicate in a complex situation, but I've found one exception:
When the new text is not really a reply, but a framing comment intended 
to alter the context in which a previous messgae should be read. 

This is remarkably rare.

-- hendrik

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Re: [Arm-netbook] I saw your recent update, Luke

2017-05-09 Thread Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton 
On Tue, May 9, 2017 at 11:55 AM, zap  wrote:

> Just a thought but I believe top posting annoys Luke.

 A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text.
Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
A: Top-posting.
Q: What is the most annoying thing in e-mail?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style#Top-posting

"Some believe that "top-posting" is appropriate for interpersonal
e-mail, but inline posting should always be applied to threaded
discussions such as newsgroups."

blerk.  ridiculous to be so pedantically politically correct.

@begin sing-song voice
"some people believe"
@end sing-song voice

it's quite simple: this is a list where topics are discussed in-depth.
top-posting that breaks the context makes it REALLY hard for people to
follow a complex or comprehensive discussion.  making other people
work harder at understanding and following isn't on.

if however there is like a throw-away comment (more a personal
discussion or just a quip / joke) then i'm happy to tolerate
top-posting.

generally i think people get it right, but if anyone feels that
someone's made their lives awkward by breaking the context, PLEASE say
so immediately.

l.

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Re: [Arm-netbook] I saw your recent update, Luke

2017-05-09 Thread mike.v...@gmail.com 
2017-05-09 12:55 GMT+02:00 zap :

>
>
> On 05/09/2017 04:32 AM, Bill Kontos wrote:
>
> Something that crossed my mind, does the lack of flash mean we can now
> update to kernels newer than 3.x ?
>
>
> Just a thought but I believe top posting annoys Luke.
>

 Bill didn't know how to post in-line. But we figured it out right Bill?
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Re: [Arm-netbook] I saw your recent update, Luke

2017-05-09 Thread zap 


On 05/09/2017 04:32 AM, Bill Kontos wrote:
>
> Something that crossed my mind, does the lack of flash mean we can now
> update to kernels newer than 3.x ?
>

Just a thought but I believe top posting annoys Luke.
> On Apr 16, 2017 12:19 PM, "zap"  > wrote:
>
> Just one question,
>
> I am assuming since there will be internal sd cards that your
> replacing
> one or both of the internal usbs?
>
> or am I wrong?
>
> By the way, I have a suggestion if you feel up to it,
>
> Debian 9 seems to be very close to stable, if you feel like it, and
> anyone wants it, install it for them.
>
> Whenever I order it, probably that will be what I will want. Using
> Debian 9 right now to be honest. It seems more stable then Debian
> 8 to me.
>
> just a thought.
>
> I wish you the best of luck, not that you will need it. :)
>
> Hoping you don't get sick again also, I am glad you will be
> sticking the
> libre guidelines.  Even if it is a pain
>
> in the butt to be putting it lightly I am sure.
>
>
>
>
>
>
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Re: [Arm-netbook] I saw your recent update, Luke

2017-05-09 Thread Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton 
On Tue, May 9, 2017 at 10:12 AM, Pablo  wrote:
> On Tue, May 09, 2017 at 10:05:25AM +0100, Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton wrote:
>> On Tue, May 9, 2017 at 9:32 AM, Bill Kontos  wrote:
>>
>> > Something that crossed my mind, does the lack of flash mean we can now
>> > update to kernels newer than 3.x ?
>>
>>  you can do anything you want to.  however if you mean "are there any
>> additional changes in the plans which are affected by NAND not being
>> on-board" the answer is no.
>
> Understood.
> Luke, do you think the kernel bug could be related to NAND or do you
> guess another cause?

 power instability due to not enough space in the layers to keep a
reasonably solid power plane.

l.

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Re: [Arm-netbook] I saw your recent update, Luke

2017-05-09 Thread Pablo 
On Tue, May 09, 2017 at 10:05:25AM +0100, Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton wrote:
> On Tue, May 9, 2017 at 9:32 AM, Bill Kontos  wrote:
> 
> > Something that crossed my mind, does the lack of flash mean we can now
> > update to kernels newer than 3.x ?
> 
>  you can do anything you want to.  however if you mean "are there any
> additional changes in the plans which are affected by NAND not being
> on-board" the answer is no.

Understood.
Luke, do you think the kernel bug could be related to NAND or do you
guess another cause?

Pablo

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Re: [Arm-netbook] I saw your recent update, Luke

2017-05-09 Thread Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton 
On Tue, May 9, 2017 at 9:32 AM, Bill Kontos  wrote:

> Something that crossed my mind, does the lack of flash mean we can now
> update to kernels newer than 3.x ?

 you can do anything you want to.  however if you mean "are there any
additional changes in the plans which are affected by NAND not being
on-board" the answer is no.

l.

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Re: [Arm-netbook] I saw your recent update, Luke

2017-05-09 Thread Bill Kontos 
Something that crossed my mind, does the lack of flash mean we can now
update to kernels newer than 3.x ?
On Apr 16, 2017 12:19 PM, "zap"  wrote:

> Just one question,
>
> I am assuming since there will be internal sd cards that your replacing
> one or both of the internal usbs?
>
> or am I wrong?
>
> By the way, I have a suggestion if you feel up to it,
>
> Debian 9 seems to be very close to stable, if you feel like it, and
> anyone wants it, install it for them.
>
> Whenever I order it, probably that will be what I will want. Using
> Debian 9 right now to be honest. It seems more stable then Debian 8 to me.
>
> just a thought.
>
> I wish you the best of luck, not that you will need it. :)
>
> Hoping you don't get sick again also, I am glad you will be sticking the
> libre guidelines.  Even if it is a pain
>
> in the butt to be putting it lightly I am sure.
>
>
>
>
>
>
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Re: [Arm-netbook] I saw your recent update, Luke

2017-04-18 Thread Vincent Legoll 
Hello,

On Tue, Apr 18, 2017 at 11:53 AM, Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
 wrote:
> On Tue, Apr 18, 2017 at 10:30 AM, John Luke Gibson  
> wrote:
>> https://www.gnu.org/software/shepherd/
>
>  fascinating.  bizarre but fascinating.  i seem to remember chris from
> thinkpenguin mentioned it to me (or someone did) as a potential OS to
> investigate: with four already on the list i remember thinking "ok
> that's probably enough for now".

It may have been me, I remember digging in GuixSD at that same time
as the eoma campaign was going.

>  still, might be worth investigating at some point.  it's on the GSoC
> list so clearly has a following.

I'll still be interested in this distro, when eoma ships.

-- 
Vincent Legoll

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Re: [Arm-netbook] I saw your recent update, Luke

2017-04-18 Thread Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton 
On Tue, Apr 18, 2017 at 10:30 AM, John Luke Gibson  wrote:
> On 4/16/17, Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton  wrote:
>>  so, first things, it wouldn't work (because it is necessary to ship
>> with the sunxi 3.4.104+ kernel as it is the *only* linux kernel that
>> supports the *FULL* set of hardware, and systemd is *NOT COMPATIBLE*
>
> Look what I found while investigating guixsd's development status with arm:
>
> https://www.gnu.org/software/shepherd/

 fascinating.  bizarre but fascinating.  i seem to remember chris from
thinkpenguin mentioned it to me (or someone did) as a potential OS to
investigate: with four already on the list i remember thinking "ok
that's probably enough for now".

 still, might be worth investigating at some point.  it's on the GSoC
list so clearly has a following.

l.

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Re: [Arm-netbook] I saw your recent update, Luke

2017-04-18 Thread John Luke Gibson 
On 4/16/17, Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton  wrote:
>  so, first things, it wouldn't work (because it is necessary to ship
> with the sunxi 3.4.104+ kernel as it is the *only* linux kernel that
> supports the *FULL* set of hardware, and systemd is *NOT COMPATIBLE*

Look what I found while investigating guixsd's development status with arm:

https://www.gnu.org/software/shepherd/

I couldn't find any indications of which versions of the linux kernel
it's been tested on in their mailing lists.

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Re: [Arm-netbook] I saw your recent update, Luke

2017-04-17 Thread Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton 
On Mon, Apr 17, 2017 at 9:36 PM, Pablo  wrote:
> On Mon, Apr 17, 2017 at 02:30:27PM +0100, Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton wrote:
>>
>> btw if you're going to be doing active early experimentation (and
>> publishing it) do you want me to add you to the list of people to send
>> a pre-production prototype to?
>
> Thank you. I am looking forward to do early experimentation and I am
> willing to publish my efforts.

 awesome.

> I am already on the list for a pre-production prototype with
> the username "Parobalth".

 ah - i wondered who it was.  excellent.

l.

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Re: [Arm-netbook] I saw your recent update, Luke

2017-04-17 Thread Pablo 
On Mon, Apr 17, 2017 at 02:30:27PM +0100, Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton wrote:
> 
> btw if you're going to be doing active early experimentation (and
> publishing it) do you want me to add you to the list of people to send
> a pre-production prototype to?

Thank you. I am looking forward to do early experimentation and I am
willing to publish my efforts. I am already on the list for a pre-production 
prototype with
the username "Parobalth". I try to reduce my dependence on google and recently 
changed my primary email address. Prior activity on this mailing list came from 
my "Parobalth" gmail address. 

Pablo

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Re: [Arm-netbook] I saw your recent update, Luke

2017-04-17 Thread Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton 
On Mon, Apr 17, 2017 at 2:24 PM, Pablo  wrote:

> I am trying to prepare to build a mainline kernel on the development
> board and/or my Eoma68-A20 card.
> So far at rhombus-tech.net I found:
> http://rhombus-tech.net/allwinner/a20/boot/
> and
> http://rhombus-tech.net/allwinner/a20/nand_mainline_boot/
>
> At linux-sunxi.org I found this Howto for mainline kernel:
> http://linux-sunxi.org/Mainline_Kernel_Howto
>
> Now can I simply run:
>
> make ARCH=arm CROSS_COMPILE=arm-linux-gnueabihf- sunxi_defconfig
>
> ARCH=arm CROSS_COMPILE=arm-linux-gnueabihf- make zImage dtbs modules
>
> to get a mainline kernel usable with the A20 card?

yyep!  personally i've been using cubietruck configs.

you found the allwinner/a20/boot configs so... yeah.

btw if you're going to be doing active early experimentation (and
publishing it) do you want me to add you to the list of people to send
a pre-production prototype to?

l.

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Re: [Arm-netbook] I saw your recent update, Luke

2017-04-17 Thread Pablo 
On Sun, Apr 16, 2017 at 04:18:08PM +0100, Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton wrote:
> ---
> crowd-funded eco-conscious hardware: https://www.crowdsupply.com/eoma68
> 
> 
> On Sun, Apr 16, 2017 at 3:11 PM, Pablo  wrote:
> >>  it's actually incredibly straightforward to get a Card set up with a new 
> >> OS:
> >>  https://wiki.debian.org/ArmHardFloatChroot
> >>
> >>  err... then... err... copy that to a MicroSD card and... err.. that's
> >> it.  done.
> >
> > It is true that there has been (heated) discussions about what kind of
> > image should be shipped with the Eoma68-A20 cards and a lot has been
> > explained here at this list and with the updates at crowdsupply.
> > Still it seems kind of unfair to point Zap in the direction of how to
> > set up a root filesystem as it is obviously not the hard part.
> 
>  that's a misunderstanding and is out-of-context, so allow me to
> clarify: note the first part of what i said: I EXPECT THERE TO BE
> SEVERAL PEOPLE INTERESTED IN CREATING THEIR OWN CARDS.
> 
>  that means that there will be a ton of people to ask "how do i create
> my own Card image".

Yes, I agree. Thank you for the clarification.  

>  there is even such documentation on the rhombus-tech wiki.  kernel
> configs and links to kernel configs are included, as well as
> instructions on how to compile them.

I am trying to prepare to build a mainline kernel on the development
board and/or my Eoma68-A20 card.
So far at rhombus-tech.net I found:
http://rhombus-tech.net/allwinner/a20/boot/
and
http://rhombus-tech.net/allwinner/a20/nand_mainline_boot/

At linux-sunxi.org I found this Howto for mainline kernel:
http://linux-sunxi.org/Mainline_Kernel_Howto

Now can I simply run:

make ARCH=arm CROSS_COMPILE=arm-linux-gnueabihf- sunxi_defconfig

ARCH=arm CROSS_COMPILE=arm-linux-gnueabihf- make zImage dtbs modules

to get a mainline kernel usable with the A20 card?
Did I miss some important sources at rhombus-tech?

kind regards
Pablo

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Re: [Arm-netbook] I saw your recent update, Luke

2017-04-16 Thread Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton 
---
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On Sun, Apr 16, 2017 at 5:58 PM, zap  wrote:

> Actually I forgot debian 9 used a kernel that a20 eoma68 doesn't support.

 ... correct.  there's quite a lot of work to be done, which is
precisely why i've tried to keep this current campaign to a smaller
(and where possible more technical) run, so that things can be got
right *before* expanding.

> But I am guessing this could be an option for the rk3188 right?

 yyep

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Re: [Arm-netbook] I saw your recent update, Luke

2017-04-16 Thread zap 


On 04/16/2017 12:58 PM, zap wrote:
>
> On 04/16/2017 06:35 AM, Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton wrote:
>> On Sun, Apr 16, 2017 at 4:08 AM, zap  wrote:
>>> Just one question,
>>  sure.
>>
>>> I am assuming since there will be internal sd cards
>>  yes.
>>
>>> that your replacing
>>> one or both of the internal usbs?
>>  no.
>>
>>> or am I wrong?
>>  removing the TSSOP-48 *NAND* IC, which leaves tracks free on layer 3
>> to route the (preferred) SDC2 interface through to the *internal*
>> MicroSD card slot, which was *previously* wired to SDC3.
>>
>> according to this: http://linux-sunxi.org/BROM
>>
>>  the boot order in the A20 eGON boot ROM is as follows:
>>
>> * SDC0
>> * NAND
>> * SDC2
>> * SPI
>> * FEL (USB-boot)
>>
>> note that MMC3 is *NOT* on that list.  so, where previously the boot order 
>> was:
>>
>> * SDC0 (external on EOMA68 connector)
>> * NAND
>>
>> it's now:
>>
>> * SDC0 (external on EOMA68 connector)
>> * SDC2 (internal on EOMA68-A20 Card)
>>
>> both of which are removable, so i feel it's a hell of a lot better.
>>
>>> By the way, I have a suggestion if you feel up to it,
>>>
>>> Debian 9 seems to be very close to stable, if you feel like it, and
>>> anyone wants it, install it for them.
>>  it's already been explained in a previous update... wherre is it...
>> ah ha! here you go:
>>
>>   
>> https://www.crowdsupply.com/eoma68/micro-desktop/updates/assembling-pcbs-at-home
>>
>>  so, first things, it wouldn't work (because it is necessary to ship
>> with the sunxi 3.4.104+ kernel as it is the *only* linux kernel that
>> supports the *FULL* set of hardware, and systemd is *NOT COMPATIBLE*
>> with the 3.4 kernel) but secondly, i've done a heck of a lot of
>> comprehensive testing of what i'll be providing... which includes some
>> custom software compiles for things like the sunxi-vdpau drivers...
>> and i'm not about to spend the time redoing all that.  i simply don't
>> have time... and people are entirely free to do it themselves anyway.
>> just grab another MicroSD Card and prepare it.
> Actually I forgot debian 9 used a kernel that a20 eoma68 doesn't support.
>
> But I am guessing this could be an option for the rk3188 right?
yeah... sorry for even mentioning that, It does work disregard this
change...

>>> Whenever I order it, probably that will be what I will want.
>>  there will be a lot of people who will want the same thing.  they
>> will be either here on this list, or on debian-arm, or on the
>> (planned) eoma68.com forums... etc. etc.
>>
>>  it's actually incredibly straightforward to get a Card set up with a new OS:
>>  https://wiki.debian.org/ArmHardFloatChroot
>>
>>  err... then... err... copy that to a MicroSD card and... err.. that's
>> it.  done.
>>
>>  this version looks a little more complicated:
>>  
>> https://wiki.debian.org/EmDebian/CrossDebootstrap#QEMU.2Fdebootstrap_approach
>>
>>  but is essentially the same thing.
>>
>>  oh look: there's the same instructions in here:
>>  http://linux-sunxi.org/Bootable_SD_card
>>
>>  section 8, "rootfs" - or section 8.2 use debootstrap.
>>
>>  the earlier sections describe setting up u-boot and linux kernel, but
>> you should by now have the general impression that this is *extremely*
>> well-documented.  google "sunxi a20 microsd boot" and you'll find
>> absolutely everything you need.
>>
>>
>>> I wish you the best of luck, not that you will need it. :)
>>  thanks.
>>
>>> Hoping you don't get sick again also,
>>  i consulted an expert that i trust and they pointed out that the
>> symptoms are consistent with the presence of parasites.  i looked that
>> up, and found that some of the foods i've been craving... kill
>> parasites! yay!  so i was subconsciously on the right track, but it's
>> good to have positive confirmation as well as a TODO list - a list of
>> foods to avoid as much as ones that will help.
>>
>>> I am glad you will be sticking the
>>> libre guidelines.  Even if it is a pain
>>> in the butt to be putting it lightly I am sure.
>>  *sigh* yeah it is... but there are plenty of people who don't... and
>> make a ton of money (because of the compromises)... and cause exactly
>> the kinds of problems we see that people complain about on a regular
>> and constant basis.
>>
>>  only a new seed will yield a new crop.
>>
>> l.
>>
>> ___
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Re: [Arm-netbook] I saw your recent update, Luke

2017-04-16 Thread zap 


On 04/16/2017 06:35 AM, Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton wrote:
> On Sun, Apr 16, 2017 at 4:08 AM, zap  wrote:
>> Just one question,
>  sure.
>
>> I am assuming since there will be internal sd cards
>  yes.
>
>> that your replacing
>> one or both of the internal usbs?
>  no.
>
>> or am I wrong?
>  removing the TSSOP-48 *NAND* IC, which leaves tracks free on layer 3
> to route the (preferred) SDC2 interface through to the *internal*
> MicroSD card slot, which was *previously* wired to SDC3.
>
> according to this: http://linux-sunxi.org/BROM
>
>  the boot order in the A20 eGON boot ROM is as follows:
>
> * SDC0
> * NAND
> * SDC2
> * SPI
> * FEL (USB-boot)
>
> note that MMC3 is *NOT* on that list.  so, where previously the boot order 
> was:
>
> * SDC0 (external on EOMA68 connector)
> * NAND
>
> it's now:
>
> * SDC0 (external on EOMA68 connector)
> * SDC2 (internal on EOMA68-A20 Card)
>
> both of which are removable, so i feel it's a hell of a lot better.
>
>> By the way, I have a suggestion if you feel up to it,
>>
>> Debian 9 seems to be very close to stable, if you feel like it, and
>> anyone wants it, install it for them.
>  it's already been explained in a previous update... wherre is it...
> ah ha! here you go:
>
>   
> https://www.crowdsupply.com/eoma68/micro-desktop/updates/assembling-pcbs-at-home
>
>  so, first things, it wouldn't work (because it is necessary to ship
> with the sunxi 3.4.104+ kernel as it is the *only* linux kernel that
> supports the *FULL* set of hardware, and systemd is *NOT COMPATIBLE*
> with the 3.4 kernel) but secondly, i've done a heck of a lot of
> comprehensive testing of what i'll be providing... which includes some
> custom software compiles for things like the sunxi-vdpau drivers...
> and i'm not about to spend the time redoing all that.  i simply don't
> have time... and people are entirely free to do it themselves anyway.
> just grab another MicroSD Card and prepare it.

Actually I forgot debian 9 used a kernel that a20 eoma68 doesn't support.

But I am guessing this could be an option for the rk3188 right?

>> Whenever I order it, probably that will be what I will want.
>  there will be a lot of people who will want the same thing.  they
> will be either here on this list, or on debian-arm, or on the
> (planned) eoma68.com forums... etc. etc.
>
>  it's actually incredibly straightforward to get a Card set up with a new OS:
>  https://wiki.debian.org/ArmHardFloatChroot
>
>  err... then... err... copy that to a MicroSD card and... err.. that's
> it.  done.
>
>  this version looks a little more complicated:
>  https://wiki.debian.org/EmDebian/CrossDebootstrap#QEMU.2Fdebootstrap_approach
>
>  but is essentially the same thing.
>
>  oh look: there's the same instructions in here:
>  http://linux-sunxi.org/Bootable_SD_card
>
>  section 8, "rootfs" - or section 8.2 use debootstrap.
>
>  the earlier sections describe setting up u-boot and linux kernel, but
> you should by now have the general impression that this is *extremely*
> well-documented.  google "sunxi a20 microsd boot" and you'll find
> absolutely everything you need.
>
>
>> I wish you the best of luck, not that you will need it. :)
>  thanks.
>
>> Hoping you don't get sick again also,
>  i consulted an expert that i trust and they pointed out that the
> symptoms are consistent with the presence of parasites.  i looked that
> up, and found that some of the foods i've been craving... kill
> parasites! yay!  so i was subconsciously on the right track, but it's
> good to have positive confirmation as well as a TODO list - a list of
> foods to avoid as much as ones that will help.
>
>> I am glad you will be sticking the
>> libre guidelines.  Even if it is a pain
>> in the butt to be putting it lightly I am sure.
>  *sigh* yeah it is... but there are plenty of people who don't... and
> make a ton of money (because of the compromises)... and cause exactly
> the kinds of problems we see that people complain about on a regular
> and constant basis.
>
>  only a new seed will yield a new crop.
>
> l.
>
> ___
> arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk
> http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook
> Send large attachments to arm-netb...@files.phcomp.co.uk


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Re: [Arm-netbook] I saw your recent update, Luke

2017-04-16 Thread Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton 
---
crowd-funded eco-conscious hardware: https://www.crowdsupply.com/eoma68


On Sun, Apr 16, 2017 at 3:11 PM, Pablo  wrote:
>>  it's actually incredibly straightforward to get a Card set up with a new OS:
>>  https://wiki.debian.org/ArmHardFloatChroot
>>
>>  err... then... err... copy that to a MicroSD card and... err.. that's
>> it.  done.
>
> It is true that there has been (heated) discussions about what kind of
> image should be shipped with the Eoma68-A20 cards and a lot has been
> explained here at this list and with the updates at crowdsupply.
> Still it seems kind of unfair to point Zap in the direction of how to
> set up a root filesystem as it is obviously not the hard part.

 that's a misunderstanding and is out-of-context, so allow me to
clarify: note the first part of what i said: I EXPECT THERE TO BE
SEVERAL PEOPLE INTERESTED IN CREATING THEIR OWN CARDS.

 that means that there will be a ton of people to ask "how do i create
my own Card image".

 there is even such documentation on the rhombus-tech wiki.  kernel
configs and links to kernel configs are included, as well as
instructions on how to compile them.

 it really isn't that hard.

> The hard parts are the mentioned mainline kernel bug somewhere after
> 4.7-rc1 and to get all or most of the hardware working with a mainline
> kernel or at least a custom kernel based on mainline and to make
> everything work smooth with vanilla Debian.

 true.  and is why i'm not going to get directly involved.


> Some minor issues can be the correct setup of U-boot, sd-card
> filesystems, kernel config, ... although we can probably copy from the
> Eoma68-A20-Sd-Card provided by Luke.

 exactly.  copy the first 128mb of any microsd card verbatim with dd
then sort out the rootfs partition after that.  i've done that at
least 10 times when creating the various different images.

 it's all been done, many many times.

 l.

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Re: [Arm-netbook] I saw your recent update, Luke

2017-04-16 Thread Pablo 
>  it's actually incredibly straightforward to get a Card set up with a new OS:
>  https://wiki.debian.org/ArmHardFloatChroot
> 
>  err... then... err... copy that to a MicroSD card and... err.. that's
> it.  done.

It is true that there has been (heated) discussions about what kind of
image should be shipped with the Eoma68-A20 cards and a lot has been
explained here at this list and with the updates at crowdsupply.
Still it seems kind of unfair to point Zap in the direction of how to
set up a root filesystem as it is obviously not the hard part.
The hard parts are the mentioned mainline kernel bug somewhere after
4.7-rc1 and to get all or most of the hardware working with a mainline
kernel or at least a custom kernel based on mainline and to make
everything work smooth with vanilla Debian. 
Some minor issues can be the correct setup of U-boot, sd-card
filesystems, kernel config, ... although we can probably copy from the
Eoma68-A20-Sd-Card provided by Luke.

kind regards
Pablo

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Re: [Arm-netbook] I saw your recent update, Luke

2017-04-16 Thread Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton 
On Sun, Apr 16, 2017 at 4:08 AM, zap  wrote:
> Just one question,

 sure.

> I am assuming since there will be internal sd cards

 yes.

> that your replacing
> one or both of the internal usbs?

 no.

> or am I wrong?

 removing the TSSOP-48 *NAND* IC, which leaves tracks free on layer 3
to route the (preferred) SDC2 interface through to the *internal*
MicroSD card slot, which was *previously* wired to SDC3.

according to this: http://linux-sunxi.org/BROM

 the boot order in the A20 eGON boot ROM is as follows:

* SDC0
* NAND
* SDC2
* SPI
* FEL (USB-boot)

note that MMC3 is *NOT* on that list.  so, where previously the boot order was:

* SDC0 (external on EOMA68 connector)
* NAND

it's now:

* SDC0 (external on EOMA68 connector)
* SDC2 (internal on EOMA68-A20 Card)

both of which are removable, so i feel it's a hell of a lot better.

> By the way, I have a suggestion if you feel up to it,
>
> Debian 9 seems to be very close to stable, if you feel like it, and
> anyone wants it, install it for them.

 it's already been explained in a previous update... wherre is it...
ah ha! here you go:

  
https://www.crowdsupply.com/eoma68/micro-desktop/updates/assembling-pcbs-at-home

 so, first things, it wouldn't work (because it is necessary to ship
with the sunxi 3.4.104+ kernel as it is the *only* linux kernel that
supports the *FULL* set of hardware, and systemd is *NOT COMPATIBLE*
with the 3.4 kernel) but secondly, i've done a heck of a lot of
comprehensive testing of what i'll be providing... which includes some
custom software compiles for things like the sunxi-vdpau drivers...
and i'm not about to spend the time redoing all that.  i simply don't
have time... and people are entirely free to do it themselves anyway.
just grab another MicroSD Card and prepare it.

> Whenever I order it, probably that will be what I will want.

 there will be a lot of people who will want the same thing.  they
will be either here on this list, or on debian-arm, or on the
(planned) eoma68.com forums... etc. etc.

 it's actually incredibly straightforward to get a Card set up with a new OS:
 https://wiki.debian.org/ArmHardFloatChroot

 err... then... err... copy that to a MicroSD card and... err.. that's
it.  done.

 this version looks a little more complicated:
 https://wiki.debian.org/EmDebian/CrossDebootstrap#QEMU.2Fdebootstrap_approach

 but is essentially the same thing.

 oh look: there's the same instructions in here:
 http://linux-sunxi.org/Bootable_SD_card

 section 8, "rootfs" - or section 8.2 use debootstrap.

 the earlier sections describe setting up u-boot and linux kernel, but
you should by now have the general impression that this is *extremely*
well-documented.  google "sunxi a20 microsd boot" and you'll find
absolutely everything you need.


> I wish you the best of luck, not that you will need it. :)

 thanks.

> Hoping you don't get sick again also,

 i consulted an expert that i trust and they pointed out that the
symptoms are consistent with the presence of parasites.  i looked that
up, and found that some of the foods i've been craving... kill
parasites! yay!  so i was subconsciously on the right track, but it's
good to have positive confirmation as well as a TODO list - a list of
foods to avoid as much as ones that will help.

> I am glad you will be sticking the
> libre guidelines.  Even if it is a pain
> in the butt to be putting it lightly I am sure.

 *sigh* yeah it is... but there are plenty of people who don't... and
make a ton of money (because of the compromises)... and cause exactly
the kinds of problems we see that people complain about on a regular
and constant basis.

 only a new seed will yield a new crop.

l.

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[Arm-netbook] I saw your recent update, Luke

2017-04-16 Thread zap 
Just one question,

I am assuming since there will be internal sd cards that your replacing
one or both of the internal usbs?

or am I wrong?

By the way, I have a suggestion if you feel up to it,

Debian 9 seems to be very close to stable, if you feel like it, and
anyone wants it, install it for them.

Whenever I order it, probably that will be what I will want. Using
Debian 9 right now to be honest. It seems more stable then Debian 8 to me.

just a thought.

I wish you the best of luck, not that you will need it. :)

Hoping you don't get sick again also, I am glad you will be sticking the
libre guidelines.  Even if it is a pain

in the butt to be putting it lightly I am sure.






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