Re: Charity and Races as Complements
In a message dated 9/9/02 12:05:12 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Being willing to run 10K is the opposite, so to speak. If D.L. is willing to run until he pukes, then the cause must be important to him and I'm more willing to give a few minutes to hear his plea and possibly give money. Just for the record, I have never to my recollection run til I puked. I have run once or twice until I came within seconds of passing out, although neither time for charity. I wonder, would I have gotten more praise for running til I nearly passed out if I'd done it for charity? As it was I merely heard about the foolishness of running in the mid-summer afternoon humidity of Iowa. Of course you have to take that with a grain of salt, as Iowa consistently has one of the highest per capital rates of obesity in the country. I seem to be running off topic here ... ;) D.L.
RE: Feral Children
I suppose cowboy extraordinaire Pecos Bill who was raised by coyotes, tamed a tornado and rescued the drought-stricken agricultural economy of Texas is more urban legend than fact. (LOL) Bill Dickens (FL) -Original Message- From: fabio guillermo rojas [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, September 06, 2002 7:34 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Feral Children Diego! Diego! The definitive source on outlandish, but possibly true facts is the weekly Straight Dope Column in the Chicago Reader, written by Cecil Adams. To sum up Cecil's column, yes, there a few authenticated cases of feral children, but most researchers doubt that any of these were raised by animals, a common misconception. Feral children remain stunted most of their lives, unable to acquire a vocabulary of more than fifty words. See the link below. Fabio Check out: http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a3_046.html On Fri, 6 Sep 2002 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Maybe the topic of feral children is a bit of target from the armchair list, but I am curious to see if someone could share their knowedge about this. Do the stories about feral children -lost or abandoned children raised in extreme social isolation, either surviving in the wild through their own efforts or 'adopted' by animals- have any truth behind them or are they just old wives tales? I guess the question should be refined: how much truth is there behind particularly famous stories of feral children (Amala Kamala, Victor the wild boy of Aveyron, Wild Peter, Kaspar Hauser, John Ssabunnya, the Hessian wolf-boy, etc.)? Most importantly, what are the conclusions and findings -assuming there is a general consensus- about them? What are the consequences of extreme social isolation in children regarding their abilities to develope complex forms of reasoning and abstract thinking? Is there a critical period for language acquisition? Diego
Re: Charity and Races as Complements
Fabio wrote: why are these activities combined so often? Symbiosis? Charities need publicity, and staging a big race in the middle of town is one way to do it. I take it for granted that charities do whatever will get them them most donations - so the question has to be about participants, runners and donors. Athletes want fame and glory, and winning a race with a brand name attached (American Heart Association) helps them get invitations to even better races. Why would such a brand name signal they are good runners, any more than any other possible organizer of the race? Why not Safeway races, or 7-UP races? ... The participants also get to socialize with other healthy people with disposable income and who share similar values. So both sides benefit. OK, this suggests that health, income, and values are complements as features of people you socialize with. Why these as opposed to any other set of three positive features (such as humor, intelligence, residence, etc.)? Robin Hanson [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://hanson.gmu.edu Asst. Prof. Economics, George Mason University MSN 1D3, Carow Hall, Fairfax VA 22030- 703-993-2326 FAX: 703-993-2323
Re: Charity and Races as Complements
john hull [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It allows the participants to demonstrate their commitment to the cause when soliciting money. ... If D.L. is willing to run until he pukes, then the cause must be important to him and I'm more willing to give a few minutes to hear his plea and possibly give money. So why not mow lawns for donations, you ask? ... when people are compensated for something they tend to enjoy it less. ... If you mowed lawns for breast cancer, you'd be putting lawn care professionals out of work and creating even more charity cases. Putting professionals out of work?! This is a confused about economics explanation. I admit people are often confused, but we should also consider more rational explanations. They could spend the same effort they spent training for the race and running it doing their usual kind of job, and then impress you with the dollar amount of money they donated to the charity. If I donated $10,000, couldn't you donate a few dollars? Robin Hanson [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://hanson.gmu.edu Asst. Prof. Economics, George Mason University MSN 1D3, Carow Hall, Fairfax VA 22030- 703-993-2326 FAX: 703-993-2323
RE: Charity and Races as Complements
From: Robin Hanson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Fabio wrote: ... The participants also get to socialize with other healthy people with disposable income and who share similar values. So both sides benefit. OK, this suggests that health, income, and values are complements as features of people you socialize with. Why these as opposed to any other set of three positive features (such as humor, intelligence, residence, etc.)? I don't think there is such a strong current-income correlation, and even less for similar values. I think a large number of runners, who so often run alone, occasionally in small groups, are happy to affirm their membership in the community of runners. If you took 10 000 runners, split out those that had run in at least 1 (2? 3?) charity race in the last year (2? 3?), and then compared incomes and similar values, I'd guess little difference between the two groups. If Fabio had merely stated get to socialize with other runners, I'd agree totally. In fact, the inclusiveness of runners prolly extends to a general non-objection to virtually all charities. Other sponsorship might engender some runners towards self-exclusion (eg tobacco sponsors), where even unsupported unliked charities generally wouldn't. I also think that most organizers of running events barely cover the organizing costs through reg fees. But (very cheap me), I would usually run unregistered just to run--I didn't there was a big free runner problem. Tom Grey
Re: Charity and Races as Complements
I agree with John's analysis of charity and signalling. I add only that a more plausible reason than the two that John gave for why people don't mow lawns is that lawn mowing is a private good and racing a public good. In other words, I can collect a donation from many people for racing but few people will pay me to mow my own lawn (or anyone else's)! Alex Alex Tabarrok Department of Economics MSN 1D3, Carow Hall George Mason University Fairfax, VA, 22030 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Tel. 703-993-2314
Re: Charity and Races as Complements
--- Robin Hanson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This is a confused about economics explanation They could spend the same effort they spent training for the race and running it doing their usual kind of job That's a good point. Of course, people who are salaried can't get a few extra bucks by staying late at the office since they're salaried. Wage earners really don't have that option, if every job I've ever had is any indication, since taking overtime is generally regarded as a cardinal sin except when specifically mandated by the company. They could get part-time jobs during their normal jogging time, but I don't see many help wanted ads asking for someone to work for seven hours a week. You'll have to convince me that the extra-work option is viable. They could sell Amway or Mary Kay for seven hours a week, but then they'd give up that good healthy exercise. If they're going to exercise anyway, then running isn't much sacrifice, as I suggested. Best regards, jsh __ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance - Get real-time stock quotes http://finance.yahoo.com
Re: Charity and Races as Complements
Alex Tabarrok wrote: I agree with John's analysis of charity and signalling. I add only that a more plausible reason than the two that John gave for why people don't mow lawns is that lawn mowing is a private good and racing a public good. In other words, I can collect a donation from many people for racing but few people will pay me to mow my own lawn (or anyone else's)! Races are public goods?! How do I benefit if some other people run a race with each other? Is this just due to some externality that healthy people produce in general? Robin Hanson [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://hanson.gmu.edu Asst. Prof. Economics, George Mason University MSN 1D3, Carow Hall, Fairfax VA 22030- 703-993-2326 FAX: 703-993-2323
Re: Charity and Races as Complements
John Hull wrote: They could spend the same effort they spent training for the race and running it doing their usual kind of job They could sell Amway or Mary Kay for seven hours a week, but then they'd give up that good healthy exercise. If they're going to exercise anyway, then running isn't much sacrifice, as I suggested. If exercise isn't much of a sacrifice, then someone's willingness to do it isn't much of a signal of their commitment to a charity, which was the proposed explanation that I was responding to in the above. Robin Hanson [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://hanson.gmu.edu Asst. Prof. Economics, George Mason University MSN 1D3, Carow Hall, Fairfax VA 22030- 703-993-2326 FAX: 703-993-2323
Re: Charity and Races as Complements
On Mon, 9 Sep 2002, Robin Hanson wrote: Alex Tabarrok wrote: I agree with John's analysis of charity and signalling. I add only that a more plausible reason than the two that John gave for why people don't mow lawns is that lawn mowing is a private good and racing a public good. In other words, I can collect a donation from many people for racing but few people will pay me to mow my own lawn (or anyone else's)! Races are public goods?! How do I benefit if some other people run a race with each other? Is this just due to some externality that healthy people produce in general? If the argument is that the race generates publicity which generates more support for the cause, then racing is a public good (or bad, depending on the nature of the cause I suppose). Eric Crampton Robin Hanson [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://hanson.gmu.edu Asst. Prof. Economics, George Mason University MSN 1D3, Carow Hall, Fairfax VA 22030- 703-993-2326 FAX: 703-993-2323
