AW: MidTier 7.1 - Scrollbars
I submitted that issue yesterday. It seems to be caused by a div style that
changed from
in MidTier 7.0
to
in
MidTier 7.1
The width in the older version (width:203) corresponded to the form's view
width whereas the new width corresponds to the width of the invisible Custom
Results List.
Hence all dialogs with a width of less than 640 pixel will probably have
scrollbars - even if they have been properly adjusted.
At least this is my guess.
This is not a major bug but annoying if you have spent some time on
size-adjusting your forms for MidTier.
Thanks for the information and regards,
Christian
-Ursprüngliche Nachricht-
Von: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList)
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Im Auftrag von vital3d
Gesendet: Donnerstag, 11. Oktober 2007 00:16
An: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Betreff: Re: MidTier 7.1 - Scrollbars
I submitted this to BMC Support a couple weeks back, I just got
confirmation of it being reproducible on their end.
"I've reproduced the behavior you've reported, and I've also confirmed
that the problem does not exist in Mid-tier 7.0.1p4. I've submitted
defect SW00278685 against the issue. As is standard with defects, a
resolution would be expected in the next major release of Mid-tier."
Regards,
Ryan
On Oct 9, 10:36 am, Christian Janovic
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hi Listers,
>
> I have installed MidTier 7.1 and while it seems much more performant and
> also more robust I have an annoying issue.
>
> When I open a (small) Dialog-Window in the browser (both Firefox and IE)
via
> MidTier the scroll bars are ALWAYS visible - even though I have adjusted
the
> size of all dialogs and removed any (hidden) fields in the form parts I
> don't want to be displayed. In the html source code there is a hidden
field
> (the CustomResultsList, ID= 1020) with a width of 640 that seems to cause
> this effect. I have not included this field, it seems to come by default.
>
> The code reads:
>
>
>
> arcoldlen="" ardrill=1 arserver="@" arschema="@" armaxrows=0 ardtype=1
> arcsize=0 arfixhdr=1 arselrows=0 arselinit=0 arselrefresh=0 arautofit=0
> arsort="" arqual="{qual:"", ids:[],extids:[]}"> src="../../../../resources/images/menu_down.gif" alt=""
> class="TableSortImgUp" arindom=1 /> src="../../../../resources/images/menu_up.gif" alt=""
> class="TableSortImgDown" arindom=1 /> class='TableHdr' cellpadding=0 cellspacing=0> valign=middle class='TableHdrL'> class='TableHdrR'> class='TableInner'> cellpadding=0 cellspacing=0> class='TableFtrL'> class='TableFtrR'>
>
>
>
> Of course this field is unnecessary in a dialog. But even in a regular
form
> a fix and unchangeable hidden field is not very nice for the
administrator.
>
> Does anybody know how to avoid this effect. Is there perhaps any means to
> change the default width of those omnipresent and hidden ar system fields.
>
> It's not necessary to say that it can be quite a bit of work to adjust all
> forms so that they are displayed without scroll bars in the browser.
>
> Any help will be appreciated.
>
> Kind regards,
>
> Christian Janovic
>
> ApproLogic GmbH
>
> Waldstraße 92
>
> 63128 Dietzenbach
>
> Tel: 06074 - 4811814
>
> Mob: 0177-4932072
>
> Fax: 06074 - 4811816
>
> E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>
___
> UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives atwww.arslist.orgARSlist:"Where the
Answers Are"
___
UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at www.arslist.org ARSlist:"Where the
Answers Are"
___
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Answers Are"
Re: MidTier 7.1 - Scrollbars
I submitted this to BMC Support a couple weeks back, I just got
confirmation of it being reproducible on their end.
"I've reproduced the behavior you've reported, and I've also confirmed
that the problem does not exist in Mid-tier 7.0.1p4. I've submitted
defect SW00278685 against the issue. As is standard with defects, a
resolution would be expected in the next major release of Mid-tier."
Regards,
Ryan
On Oct 9, 10:36 am, Christian Janovic
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hi Listers,
>
> I have installed MidTier 7.1 and while it seems much more performant and
> also more robust I have an annoying issue.
>
> When I open a (small) Dialog-Window in the browser (both Firefox and IE) via
> MidTier the scroll bars are ALWAYS visible - even though I have adjusted the
> size of all dialogs and removed any (hidden) fields in the form parts I
> don't want to be displayed. In the html source code there is a hidden field
> (the CustomResultsList, ID= 1020) with a width of 640 that seems to cause
> this effect. I have not included this field, it seems to come by default.
>
> The code reads:
>
>
>
> arcoldlen="" ardrill=1 arserver="@" arschema="@" armaxrows=0 ardtype=1
> arcsize=0 arfixhdr=1 arselrows=0 arselinit=0 arselrefresh=0 arautofit=0
> arsort="" arqual="{qual:"", ids:[],extids:[]}"> src="../../../../resources/images/menu_down.gif" alt=""
> class="TableSortImgUp" arindom=1 /> src="../../../../resources/images/menu_up.gif" alt=""
> class="TableSortImgDown" arindom=1 /> class='TableHdr' cellpadding=0 cellspacing=0> valign=middle class='TableHdrL'> class='TableHdrR'> class='TableInner'> cellpadding=0 cellspacing=0> class='TableFtrL'> class='TableFtrR'>
>
>
>
> Of course this field is unnecessary in a dialog. But even in a regular form
> a fix and unchangeable hidden field is not very nice for the administrator.
>
> Does anybody know how to avoid this effect. Is there perhaps any means to
> change the default width of those omnipresent and hidden ar system fields.
>
> It's not necessary to say that it can be quite a bit of work to adjust all
> forms so that they are displayed without scroll bars in the browser.
>
> Any help will be appreciated.
>
> Kind regards,
>
> Christian Janovic
>
> ApproLogic GmbH
>
> Waldstraße 92
>
> 63128 Dietzenbach
>
> Tel: 06074 - 4811814
>
> Mob: 0177-4932072
>
> Fax: 06074 - 4811816
>
> E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> ___
> UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives atwww.arslist.orgARSlist:"Where the
> Answers Are"
___
UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at www.arslist.org ARSlist:"Where the
Answers Are"
AW: MidTier 7.1 - Scrollbars
Rick,
there is no field in the Admin-Tool or in the definitions. The
HTML-Generator adds those fields without any administrator activity.
I think it is hardwired somewhere in those MidTier java libraries.
Thanks,
Christian
_
Von: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList)
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Im Auftrag von Rick Cook
Gesendet: Dienstag, 9. Oktober 2007 19:21
An: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Betreff: Re: MidTier 7.1 - Scrollbars
**
Is it possible to move and/or hide the field?
Rick
On 10/9/07, Christian Janovic <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Carey,
thanks for those good ideas.
Unfortunately they did not work:
- Hiding the Banner, Web Toolbar etc. has no effect at all.
- Adding a results list field to a display only form is not possible - and I
cannot convert all my display only forms into regular ones
- the Web Header Content has no effect for me.
I think I will have to submit an issue with BMC. If they have to have the
results list field in display only forms (for some incomprehensible reason)
they could position it at least somewhere near 0,0 with a small height and
width.
Actually they also insert the advanced search bar. By contrast this "very
well hidden" field comes without width.
Leiste
für erweiterte Suche
Thanks a lot,
Christian
-Ursprüngliche Nachricht-
Von: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList)
[mailto: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG <mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG> ] Im Auftrag von
Carey Matthew Black
Gesendet: Dienstag, 9. Oktober 2007 18:23
An: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Betreff: Re: MidTier 7.1 - Scrollbars
Christian,
These ideas are totally untested...
Try these ideas...
In the Admin tool
open the form
Display the correct view
Go to the menu item Form-->Current View-->Properties
On the Appearance tab set 'Results Banner', and 'Web Toolbar' to "Hidden"
If that does not work... then I would add a 'Results list' field
(table) to the view and make it hidden and smaller than the size of
the view you want it to be.
If that does not work... then I would try to add some stuff into the
"Web Header Content" (or Footer ) and see if we can override the CSS
for that form. Something like this might work..
div#ResultsList{
display:none;
}
Hope that helps.
--
Carey Matthew Black
Remedy Skilled Professional (RSP)
ARS = Action Request System(Remedy)
Love, then teach
Solution = People + Process + Tools
Fast, Accurate, Cheap Pick two.
On 10/9/07, Christian Janovic <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> **
>
>
>
> Hi Listers,
>
>
>
> I have installed MidTier 7.1 and while it seems much more performant and
> also more robust I have an annoying issue.
>
>
>
> When I open a (small) Dialog-Window in the browser (both Firefox and IE)
via
> MidTier the scroll bars are ALWAYS visible even though I have adjusted
the
> size of all dialogs and removed any (hidden) fields in the form parts I
> don't want to be displayed. In the html source code there is a hidden
field
> (the CustomResultsList, ID= 1020) with a width of 640 that seems to cause
> this effect. I have not included this field, it seems to come by default.
>
>
>
> The code reads:
>
>
>
> arcols="" arcolws="" arcoldlen="" ardrill=1 arserver="@" arschema="@"
> armaxrows=0 ardtype=1 arcsize=0 arfixhdr=1 arselrows=0 arselinit=0
> arselrefresh=0 arautofit=0 arsort="" arqual="{qual:"",
> ids:[],extids:[]}"> src="../../../../resources/images/menu_down.gif" alt=""
> class="TableSortImgUp" arindom=1 /> src="../../../../resources/images/menu_up.gif" alt=""
> class="TableSortImgDown" arindom=1 /> class='TableHdr' cellpadding=0 cellspacing=0> valign=middle class='TableHdrL'> class='TableHdrR'> class='TableInner'> cellpadding=0 cellspacing=0> class='TableFtrL'> class='TableFtrR'>
>
>
>
>
>
> Of course this field is unnecessary in a dialog. But even in a regular
form
> a fix and unchangeable hidden field is not very nice for the
administrator.
>
>
>
> Does anybody know how to avoid this effect. Is there perhaps any means to
> change the default width of those omnipresent and hidden ar system fields.
>
>
>
> It's not necessary to say that it can be quite a bit of work to adjust all
> forms so that they are displayed without scroll bars in the browser.
>
>
>
> Any help will be appreciated.
>
>
>
> Kind regards,
>
>
>
> Christian Janovic
>
>
>
> ApproLogic GmbH
>
>
>
> Waldstraße 92
>
> 63128 Dietzenbach
>
> Tel: 06074 - 4811814
>
> Mob: 0177-4932072
>
> Fax: 06074 - 4811816
>
> E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
__20060125___This posting was submitted with HTML in
it___
___
UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at www.arslist.org ARSlist:"Where the
Answers Are"
Re: MidTier 7.1 - Scrollbars
Is it possible to move and/or hide the field?
Rick
On 10/9/07, Christian Janovic <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Carey,
>
> thanks for those good ideas.
>
> Unfortunately they did not work:
> - Hiding the Banner, Web Toolbar etc. has no effect at all.
> - Adding a results list field to a display only form is not possible - and
> I
> cannot convert all my display only forms into regular ones
> - the Web Header Content has no effect for me.
>
> I think I will have to submit an issue with BMC. If they have to have the
> results list field in display only forms (for some incomprehensible
> reason)
> they could position it at least somewhere near 0,0 with a small height and
> width.
>
> Actually they also insert the advanced search bar. By contrast this "very
> well hidden" field comes without width.
>
> artype="SearchBar">
> Leiste
> für erweiterte Suche
>
>
> Thanks a lot,
>
> Christian
>
>
> -Ursprüngliche Nachricht-
> Von: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList)
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Im Auftrag von Carey Matthew Black
> Gesendet: Dienstag, 9. Oktober 2007 18:23
> An: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
> Betreff: Re: MidTier 7.1 - Scrollbars
>
> Christian,
>
> These ideas are totally untested...
>
> Try these ideas...
>
> In the Admin tool
> open the form
> Display the correct view
> Go to the menu item Form-->Current View-->Properties
> On the Appearance tab set 'Results Banner', and 'Web Toolbar' to "Hidden"
>
> If that does not work... then I would add a 'Results list' field
> (table) to the view and make it hidden and smaller than the size of
> the view you want it to be.
>
>
> If that does not work... then I would try to add some stuff into the
> "Web Header Content" (or Footer ) and see if we can override the CSS
> for that form. Something like this might work..
>
>
> div#ResultsList{
> display:none;
> }
>
>
> Hope that helps.
>
> --
> Carey Matthew Black
> Remedy Skilled Professional (RSP)
> ARS = Action Request System(Remedy)
>
> Love, then teach
> Solution = People + Process + Tools
> Fast, Accurate, Cheap Pick two.
>
>
>
> On 10/9/07, Christian Janovic <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > **
> >
> >
> >
> > Hi Listers,
> >
> >
> >
> > I have installed MidTier 7.1 and while it seems much more performant and
> > also more robust I have an annoying issue.
> >
> >
> >
> > When I open a (small) Dialog-Window in the browser (both Firefox and IE)
> via
> > MidTier the scroll bars are ALWAYS visible – even though I have adjusted
> the
> > size of all dialogs and removed any (hidden) fields in the form parts I
> > don't want to be displayed. In the html source code there is a hidden
> field
> > (the CustomResultsList, ID= 1020) with a width of 640 that seems to
> cause
> > this effect. I have not included this field, it seems to come by
> default.
> >
> >
> >
> > The code reads:
> >
> >
> >
> > > arcols="" arcolws="" arcoldlen="" ardrill=1 arserver="@" arschema="@"
> > armaxrows=0 ardtype=1 arcsize=0 arfixhdr=1 arselrows=0 arselinit=0
> > arselrefresh=0 arautofit=0 arsort="" arqual="{qual:"",
> > ids:[],extids:[]}"> > src="../../../../resources/images/menu_down.gif" alt=""
> > class="TableSortImgUp" arindom=1 /> > src="../../../../resources/images/menu_up.gif" alt=""
> > class="TableSortImgDown" arindom=1 /> > class='TableHdr' cellpadding=0 cellspacing=0> > valign=middle class='TableHdrL'> > class='TableHdrR'> > class='TableInner'> > cellpadding=0 cellspacing=0> > class='TableFtrL'> > class='TableFtrR'>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Of course this field is unnecessary in a dialog. But even in a regular
> form
> > a fix and unchangeable hidden field is not very nice for the
> administrator.
> >
> >
> >
> > Does anybody know how to avoid this effect. Is there perhaps any means
> to
> > change the default width of those omnipresent and hidden ar system
> fields.
> >
> >
> >
> > It's not necessary to say that it can be quite a bit of work to adjust
> all
> > forms so that they are displayed without scroll bars in the browser.
> >
> >
> >
> > Any help will be appreciated.
> >
> >
> >
> > Kind regards,
> >
> >
> >
> > Christian Janovic
> >
> >
> >
> > ApproLogic GmbH
> >
> >
> >
> > Waldstraße 92
> >
> > 63128 Dietzenbach
> >
> > Tel: 06074 - 4811814
> >
> > Mob: 0177-4932072
> >
> > Fax: 06074 - 4811816
> >
> > E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
___
UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at www.arslist.org ARSlist:"Where the
Answers Are"
AW: MidTier 7.1 - Scrollbars
Carey,
thanks for those good ideas.
Unfortunately they did not work:
- Hiding the Banner, Web Toolbar etc. has no effect at all.
- Adding a results list field to a display only form is not possible - and I
cannot convert all my display only forms into regular ones
- the Web Header Content has no effect for me.
I think I will have to submit an issue with BMC. If they have to have the
results list field in display only forms (for some incomprehensible reason)
they could position it at least somewhere near 0,0 with a small height and
width.
Actually they also insert the advanced search bar. By contrast this "very
well hidden" field comes without width.
Leiste
für erweiterte Suche
Thanks a lot,
Christian
-Ursprüngliche Nachricht-
Von: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList)
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Im Auftrag von Carey Matthew Black
Gesendet: Dienstag, 9. Oktober 2007 18:23
An: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Betreff: Re: MidTier 7.1 - Scrollbars
Christian,
These ideas are totally untested...
Try these ideas...
In the Admin tool
open the form
Display the correct view
Go to the menu item Form-->Current View-->Properties
On the Appearance tab set 'Results Banner', and 'Web Toolbar' to "Hidden"
If that does not work... then I would add a 'Results list' field
(table) to the view and make it hidden and smaller than the size of
the view you want it to be.
If that does not work... then I would try to add some stuff into the
"Web Header Content" (or Footer ) and see if we can override the CSS
for that form. Something like this might work..
div#ResultsList{
display:none;
}
Hope that helps.
--
Carey Matthew Black
Remedy Skilled Professional (RSP)
ARS = Action Request System(Remedy)
Love, then teach
Solution = People + Process + Tools
Fast, Accurate, Cheap Pick two.
On 10/9/07, Christian Janovic <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> **
>
>
>
> Hi Listers,
>
>
>
> I have installed MidTier 7.1 and while it seems much more performant and
> also more robust I have an annoying issue.
>
>
>
> When I open a (small) Dialog-Window in the browser (both Firefox and IE)
via
> MidTier the scroll bars are ALWAYS visible even though I have adjusted
the
> size of all dialogs and removed any (hidden) fields in the form parts I
> don't want to be displayed. In the html source code there is a hidden
field
> (the CustomResultsList, ID= 1020) with a width of 640 that seems to cause
> this effect. I have not included this field, it seems to come by default.
>
>
>
> The code reads:
>
>
>
> arcols="" arcolws="" arcoldlen="" ardrill=1 arserver="@" arschema="@"
> armaxrows=0 ardtype=1 arcsize=0 arfixhdr=1 arselrows=0 arselinit=0
> arselrefresh=0 arautofit=0 arsort="" arqual="{qual:"",
> ids:[],extids:[]}"> src="../../../../resources/images/menu_down.gif" alt=""
> class="TableSortImgUp" arindom=1 /> src="../../../../resources/images/menu_up.gif" alt=""
> class="TableSortImgDown" arindom=1 /> class='TableHdr' cellpadding=0 cellspacing=0> valign=middle class='TableHdrL'> class='TableHdrR'> class='TableInner'> cellpadding=0 cellspacing=0> class='TableFtrL'> class='TableFtrR'>
>
>
>
>
>
> Of course this field is unnecessary in a dialog. But even in a regular
form
> a fix and unchangeable hidden field is not very nice for the
administrator.
>
>
>
> Does anybody know how to avoid this effect. Is there perhaps any means to
> change the default width of those omnipresent and hidden ar system fields.
>
>
>
> It's not necessary to say that it can be quite a bit of work to adjust all
> forms so that they are displayed without scroll bars in the browser.
>
>
>
> Any help will be appreciated.
>
>
>
> Kind regards,
>
>
>
> Christian Janovic
>
>
>
> ApproLogic GmbH
>
>
>
> Waldstraße 92
>
> 63128 Dietzenbach
>
> Tel: 06074 - 4811814
>
> Mob: 0177-4932072
>
> Fax: 06074 - 4811816
>
> E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
___
UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at www.arslist.org ARSlist:"Where the
Answers Are"
___
UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at www.arslist.org ARSlist:"Where the
Answers Are"
Re: MidTier 7.1 - Scrollbars
Christian,
These ideas are totally untested...
Try these ideas...
In the Admin tool
open the form
Display the correct view
Go to the menu item Form-->Current View-->Properties
On the Appearance tab set 'Results Banner', and 'Web Toolbar' to "Hidden"
If that does not work... then I would add a 'Results list' field
(table) to the view and make it hidden and smaller than the size of
the view you want it to be.
If that does not work... then I would try to add some stuff into the
"Web Header Content" (or Footer ) and see if we can override the CSS
for that form. Something like this might work..
div#ResultsList{
display:none;
}
Hope that helps.
--
Carey Matthew Black
Remedy Skilled Professional (RSP)
ARS = Action Request System(Remedy)
Love, then teach
Solution = People + Process + Tools
Fast, Accurate, Cheap Pick two.
On 10/9/07, Christian Janovic <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> **
>
>
>
> Hi Listers,
>
>
>
> I have installed MidTier 7.1 and while it seems much more performant and
> also more robust I have an annoying issue.
>
>
>
> When I open a (small) Dialog-Window in the browser (both Firefox and IE) via
> MidTier the scroll bars are ALWAYS visible – even though I have adjusted the
> size of all dialogs and removed any (hidden) fields in the form parts I
> don't want to be displayed. In the html source code there is a hidden field
> (the CustomResultsList, ID= 1020) with a width of 640 that seems to cause
> this effect. I have not included this field, it seems to come by default.
>
>
>
> The code reads:
>
>
>
> arcols="" arcolws="" arcoldlen="" ardrill=1 arserver="@" arschema="@"
> armaxrows=0 ardtype=1 arcsize=0 arfixhdr=1 arselrows=0 arselinit=0
> arselrefresh=0 arautofit=0 arsort="" arqual="{qual:"",
> ids:[],extids:[]}"> src="../../../../resources/images/menu_down.gif" alt=""
> class="TableSortImgUp" arindom=1 /> src="../../../../resources/images/menu_up.gif" alt=""
> class="TableSortImgDown" arindom=1 /> class='TableHdr' cellpadding=0 cellspacing=0> valign=middle class='TableHdrL'> class='TableHdrR'> class='TableInner'> cellpadding=0 cellspacing=0> class='TableFtrL'> class='TableFtrR'>
>
>
>
>
>
> Of course this field is unnecessary in a dialog. But even in a regular form
> a fix and unchangeable hidden field is not very nice for the administrator.
>
>
>
> Does anybody know how to avoid this effect. Is there perhaps any means to
> change the default width of those omnipresent and hidden ar system fields.
>
>
>
> It's not necessary to say that it can be quite a bit of work to adjust all
> forms so that they are displayed without scroll bars in the browser.
>
>
>
> Any help will be appreciated.
>
>
>
> Kind regards,
>
>
>
> Christian Janovic
>
>
>
> ApproLogic GmbH
>
>
>
> Waldstraße 92
>
> 63128 Dietzenbach
>
> Tel: 06074 - 4811814
>
> Mob: 0177-4932072
>
> Fax: 06074 - 4811816
>
> E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
___
UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at www.arslist.org ARSlist:"Where the
Answers Are"
MidTier 7.1 - Scrollbars
Hi Listers, I have installed MidTier 7.1 and while it seems much more performant and also more robust I have an annoying issue. When I open a (small) Dialog-Window in the browser (both Firefox and IE) via MidTier the scroll bars are ALWAYS visible even though I have adjusted the size of all dialogs and removed any (hidden) fields in the form parts I dont want to be displayed. In the html source code there is a hidden field (the CustomResultsList, ID= 1020) with a width of 640 that seems to cause this effect. I have not included this field, it seems to come by default. The code reads: Of course this field is unnecessary in a dialog. But even in a regular form a fix and unchangeable hidden field is not very nice for the administrator. Does anybody know how to avoid this effect. Is there perhaps any means to change the default width of those omnipresent and hidden ar system fields. Its not necessary to say that it can be quite a bit of work to adjust all forms so that they are displayed without scroll bars in the browser. Any help will be appreciated. Kind regards, Christian Janovic ApproLogic GmbH Waldstraße 92 63128 Dietzenbach Tel: 06074 - 4811814 Mob: 0177-4932072 Fax: 06074 - 4811816 E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at www.arslist.org ARSlist:"Where the Answers Are"
